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A SEX WORKER who went on Ray D’Arcy’s RTÉ radio show this afternoon to talk about her opposition to planned new laws criminalising payment for sex has criticised the host as ‘unprofessional’ in the wake of the interview.
Laura Lee, an independent escort based in Glasgow, has been campaigning against changing the law to criminalise those who pay for sex in the UK and Ireland for years.
The Dublin-born law graduate announced earlier this year that she planned to use European human rights legislation to overturn Northern Ireland’s new law making it illegal to pay for prostitutes – a version of the so-called ‘Swedish Model’.
The law came into effect at the start of the month – and Frances Fitzgerald, the justice minister, has confirmed the Irish Government is planning similar laws.
Lee, who has also worked in financial services, said she would campaign for a judicial review, in the event that the mooted change in the law comes into effect in the Republic.
“Sex workers rights are human rights,” she argued, after beginning the interview with a brief discussion on how she became involved in the industry, and her current work in Scotland.
“For example at the moment in the Republic if two women work together in an apartment for safety that’s not permitted – it’s deemed a brothel, so they can both be arrested and fined for ‘pimping for one another’ while still being deemed vulnerable victims by the State.
And what does that mean? It means they’ll both end up with a criminal record which actually makes it harder for them to leave the industry.
Most women involved in prostitution “are just perfectly ordinary women trying to feed their children in a recession,” Lee argued.
A increasingly tense, but civil, discussion with D’Arcy then followed – in which the host challenged her accusations against groups campaigning in favour of the new laws (she alleged, essentially, they were in it partly for the government funding – an accusation D’Arcy panned as “daft”).
They also disagreed on the success of laws elsewhere in the world criminalising men who pay for sex.
The answers got shorter, and the questions a little more pointed, as the exchange continued…
D’Arcy: “Would you not be better off campaigning to stop trafficking and to stop the vulnerable getting into sex work in the first place?”
Lee: “How we stop trafficking is we make it a safer environment for sex workers and open the channels of communication between us and the police.”
D’Arcy: “Another way of stopping trafficking is to reduce demand. Already in Sweden they found that traffickers now don’t see Sweden as a place they want to work.”
Lee: “How do you propose to decrease demand, though? There’s never been a society without prostitution and there never will be.”
D’Arcy: “You will decrease demand, because the type of men … some of the men who go to prostitutes, they say in research that if there was a deterrent – and criminalisation would be a deterrent – that they’d go ‘we won’t do it’. They’re not addicted to it.”
Lee: “So, what happens then is that as sex workers we’re left with the dross – the people who really couldn’t care less and have criminal records as long as their arms?”
[Long pause]
D’Arcy: “Is that what you’re saying?”
Lee: “Yep… That’s my experience.”
D’Arcy: “Well they’re there already… So that’s not an argument… They’re there already.”
Laura Lee / TwitterJust after 3pm I'll be on @rte Radio 1, chatting to Ray D'Arcy about why @FitzgeraldFrncs must fail. #SexWorkersRights
— Laura Lee (@GlasgaeLauraLee) June 15, 2015
Towards the end of the interview, D’Arcy asked her if the experience of engaging in prostitution was degrading.
D’Arcy: “Is it not horrible?”
Lee: ”No, it’s not horrible at all. It’s no more degrading than any other form of work – I mean, I worked in a bank for nine years and that was horrific. That was corporate prostitution.”
D’Arcy: ”Hmm. Yeah, but – you know…”
The segment came to an end on a polite note – with Lee responding ‘pleasure’ following the presenter’s sign-off and ‘thank you’.
Online, later – the campaigner said D’Arcy’s tone had been hostile and aggressive.
Laura Lee / Twitter"6% approx are trafficked".
— Laura Lee (@GlasgaeLauraLee) June 15, 2015
Presenter - "Ah now you just made that up". Jesus, how professional.
Laura Lee / TwitterMy marital status is not an appropriate question in a political debate and he was told that before I went on.
— Laura Lee (@GlasgaeLauraLee) June 15, 2015
Some listeners also thought it was a tough interview…
CROSSY / TwitterRay Darcy is channeling Kay Burley in this interview :O
— CROSSY (@CrossyTweets) June 15, 2015
Others, meanwhile, found it more thought-provoking…
Barbara Scully / TwitterFascinating item on #raydarcy prog on sex work. I'm v undecided on this. Have women the right to be we'd workers? therefore sud be protected
— Barbara Scully (@barbarascully) June 15, 2015
The folks at campaign umbrella group ‘Turn Off the Red Light’, which supports Fitzgerald’s plan to change the law, were also listening…
Turn Off Red Light / TwitterOireachtas Justice Committee unanimously backs sex buyer laws after 800 submissions and 6 mths if hearings #raydarcy
— Turn Off Red Light (@turnoffRL) June 15, 2015
Turn Off Red Light / TwitterWhy do English escort agencies want to dictate Irish law? huge profits..End this http://t.co/ku2Y3X2aty #RayDarcy
— Turn Off Red Light (@turnoffRL) June 15, 2015
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Once the UK ban was lifted I headed on down to donate but was told my blood type was so rare (AB -) that they’ve enough in stock!
@mr magoo:
Fair play for making the effort.
@mr magoo: Good for you!
@mr magoo: enough in stock at that time. Doesnt stop you donating again. once you are registered you will get a text message to say how many days stock there is left for your blood group. Once you donate you also get a message to say where and when your blood was used.
@LittleBee: Yes, once when I donated I was talking to a man whose children were being looked after by the staff. He had rare blood. They rang him ahead of an urgent operation and he jokingly said “I’ll come straight in if ye mind the children for me.”
@mr magoo: there is a very small percentage of the population that are AB- therefore its is limited in how many people can use this blood type because it can only be used for AB- patients. However you should check if you are eligible to donate platelets as your blood group (AB-) is the ‘universal donor’ for platelets (which have different requirements than blood) and would always be in high demand. Well done for donating.
Had my first transfusion 4 Months ago! Disappointed to learn I’ll never be allowed to donate ever again!
@rosetheone: i had a heart op in 81. I had a transfusion and it breaks my heart i cant donate blood because of it
I have HH, donate now once a week to get it under control but gave been told due to some admin error/row/bunfight between ibts and hse that it ends up in the bin. It’s very disappointing to say the least
@Damian Rossiter: They will take it once you’re in the maintenance phase of treatment but not during the first few venesections while they are trying to get your iron levels down.
Great article, for me I have never given blood as had jaundice as an 8-9 year old. I never heard that the rules had changed. Delighted. Will be making an appointment tomorrow.
And, I quote, you cannot give blood in Ireland if: “you are female and have sex with a Male who ever had oral or anal sex with another man with or without a condom or other form of protection”……or “If you are Male and have ever had sex with another male, even ‘safer sex’ using a condom or pre-exposure prophylaxis “.
Homophobic, much? Presumptive, much? Discriminatory, 100%. What about women who have had anal sex? Let’s face it, it’s pretty common. Can they just rock up.and donate blood no questions asked?
@Gillian Fallon: That’s because of AIDS. I once worked with a married couple from South Africa and they couldn’t donate blood here either. They offered, but the staff explained that they wouldn’t be eligible to give.
@Fiona Fitzgerald: I know why it’s the case but is it evidence based and why aren’t women included? I would imagine there are far more straight women that gay men in this scenario affected.
@Gillian Fallon: As far as I know, it is evidence-based. But they don’t exclude straight women. Or gay women. (Unless, say, it was a straight woman married to a bisexual or gay man.) It would be fine to donate otherwise.
@Fiona Fitzgerald: It’s no longer evidence based due to better windows for being able to screen for HIV in individuals. Ireland recently changed their policy to a 12 month deferral period for sexual contact with a MSM partner and this is still a very conservative measure compared to the deferral windows for other countries.
Also, while people can take PREP to prevent being able to get infected with HIV, there’s no provision yet for these individuals to be able to donate blood unless they again meet the 12 month deferral window. Hopefully this can change over time but the IBTS tend to be pretty conservative and slow compared to many other countries.
@Fiona Fitzgerald: it’s about HIV which is different from aids. HIV is a virus which is transmitted. AIDS is a syndrome that develops when HIV goes untreated. You cannot catch AIDS.
The ban is not just against gay and bisexual men but also any man who has ever had oral or anal sex with another man (and there are a lot of straight men out there who have) but also women who have ever had sex with a man who has had sec with a man. The difference is that it is men who are targeted.
One of the key issues is that men who are in monogamous relationships and who know their status are not allowed donate blood which is problematic. The entire screening process is based in trust and that the person answers the questions honestly. There is no reason to bar monogamous gay or bisexual men from donating blood. But the current deferral mandates celibacy for 12 months which is ridiculous.
@Gillian Fallon: it’s called being cautious.
@Gillian Fallon: I used to donate Palettes which were used to assist very sick people, but unfortunately , after a year or more , I was informed that they cannot take palettes from married women. When I did donate, I was told that my palettes were excellent and sometimes I gave two batches in one session.
Did not know the English thing was lifted. I’m going to give blood now. It’s something everyone should do. It’s been so long for me that I got a glass of Guinness the last time I donated.
I was given 4 bags a couple of years ago – does this mean I can’t donate myself?
@The only INFP in Ireland: I believe you can’t but ring them, they are the most helpful service you can deal with.
@The only INFP in Ireland: that is correct. If you have ever received a Transfusion at any stage you cannot donate blood. The reason behind this is because you received blood from another donor which is very safe to use but still is never a 100% match for your blood (obviously because its from another person) so your immune system may have reacted to this blood by making antibodies. If you were to donate and these antibodies passed to another it could cause harm. As they are your antibodies (made by your immune system) they wont cause you any harm.
I gave blood many moons ago but since then got diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes. I am sure i checked before and I can’t donate but can anyone confirm?
Sponsored by the Vampire Society of Ireland!
I notice they avoided the issue of not accepting gay blood – probably because it’s an indefensible stance?
At least they’ve finally decided that getting my english blood isn’t as bad as dying in need of a transfusion
I’ve lived in the US south east for the last 8 years and I’ve been to 2 tropical countries in the Americas in the last 6 months.
I know I cannot give blood due to West Nile, Zika and other viruses common in this area for time but not sure how long.
How long (if ever) can I give blood in Ireland?
@David Guiney: It used to be six months, but seriously, ask them because you might be eligible again now, and they can always do with new donors.
Here’s a link to the quick quiz if anyone is wondering if they might be able to donate:
https://www.giveblood.ie/can-i-give-blood/blood-eligibility-quiz/
Made my first donation when I turned 18 that’s when the Guinness and Harp was flowing.
Please get someone to edit the numbered list so that people can share the article.
On the app, a lot of the content is duplicated after #4.
I notice they avoided the issue of not accepting gay blood – probably because it’s an indefensible stance?
I notice they avoided the issue of not accepting gay blood – probably because it’s an indefensible stance?
I notice they avoided the issue of not accepting gay blood – probably because it’s an indefensible stance?
At least they’ve finally decided that getting my proddy blood isn’t as bad as dying in need of a transfusion
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