Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
Updated 8.42 pm
AN OIREACHTAS JOINT committee has backed the government’s plan to introduce a minimum unit price (MUP) for alcohol under measures designed to reduce harmful drinking.
The plans could also see drinks producers being made to pay a “social responsibility levy”. This charge would be designed to capture the extra profits alcohol producers started taking in when prices were increased through the floor price for all drinks.
In a report released today, voiced its support for the government’s approach:
The weight of evidence presented to the Committee supported the introduction of a MUP for alcohol, as an effective means to reduce and disrupt harmful alcohol consumption patterns.
The committee also recommended setting an MUP at the “upper end” of a range between €0.60 and €1.10 to offer “the best opportunity to reduce harmful drinking and associated social impacts”.
At the top of the spectrum, that would put the minimum price on the average 500ml can of beer at about €2, a bottle of wine at more than €8 and a bottle of spirits at nearly €24.
The price increase was expected to lead to both higher VAT returns for the government and increased profits for drinks companies, the report said.
To “capture” some of those extra profits, the government should also look at bringing in a “social responsibility levy” on the alcohol industry, it added.
Any additional revenue generated for the exchequer could be ring-fenced to fund health sector social marketing initiatives, and addiction treatment and rehabilitation services,” it said.
Some of the other measure the committee recommended include:
Below-cost sales and high prices
Publicans and off-licenses have backed the MUP move, although the National Off-Licence Association (NOffLA) has called for the laws to go further and include a ban on selling booze at below-invoice costs.
But today the group said it was “very concerned” about proposals for a levy on the drinks sector to capture some of the extra cash from floor pricing, which it claimed wouldn’t increase profits for retailers.
It produced this table of how a MUP of €1 per 10 grams of alcohol would affect prices:
Major brewers and distillers have said MUP for alcohol would be “ineffective” and the best policy would be a straight ban on below-cost sales.
Scotland has already voted in similar laws, but they are being fought through the EU courts after challenges from the whisky lobby and several major wine-producing nations.
Health Minister Leo Varadkar, who unveiled the alcohol-control plans in February, previously said new laws could be before the Dáil this summer although they would likely take up to 12 months to implement.
Alcoholic drinks are already more expensive in Ireland, on average, than anywhere else in the EU except Finland, thanks to sky-high excise duties.
Meanwhile, Irish people remain some of the heaviest drinkers in the world – and the rate of consumption has been increasing over the past two decades.
First published 12.21pm
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
More like a “let’s screw the people for more cash levy”.
Try and get away for a few cheap weekends abroad, dammed if I would satisfy them by buying a 2.50 can of beer. Home brew for Ireland
Fk them..if this comes in, there’ll be a couple of wine runs to France each year. Listened to Buttimer stuttering and stammering his way around the place on the radio trying to defend this..and made a pigs ar se of it. Another greasy fingered grab on whatever they haven’t taken already.
This won’t even make people go back to drinking in pubs….but I wonder how many off-licences will have to drop staff.
You can have cases of spirit ordered over the internet and delivered to your door from anywhere in Europe.
In the same way the biggest drinking problems in Europe are in Spain because it’s so cheap, Wait….
No, it’s okay, it’s not just another tax. The extra revenue will be “ringfenced” for some stuff…
More excise…..
So much to try the educational route, oh right no profit in that
Wow, yet another fancy name for ” A few extra quid to pay down this bank debt”
If they put the money directly into setting up youth clubs for the under 21′s with music studios, sports and adventure facilities etc. I would support it. Show kids there is life outside of drinking and that drinking is actually fairly conformist and you would see a change of culture. I see kids all over Ireland hanging out on the streets with nothing to do, if that’s your only outlet then of course your going to drink, smoke and do drugs. Give them some bloody options that don’t cost money.
Thats not how Ireland works. Go to Scandinavia for that kind of thing…..
Another tax for the consumer under the guise that it is good for you.. Nanny state at it’s worst
It would be better than the HSE printing up a million of pamphlets no one reads and putting those annoying drink aware ads on TV. Leo and Co aren’t exactly making it cool up there with their “on the dry” T-shirts, either. Another ineffective campaign that probably cost a fortune.
I wish that instead of saying stop drinking they would change the conversation and champion positive activities with tax-breaks etc. Some might say that I’m a dreamer…..
The nudge society is little better than the nanny state Carmo.
The empty criticism is little better than an outright insult.
What’s your solution then?
Solution to what? Are you looking for an answer to a problem that doesn’t exist?
Oh grow up, or go and drink a bottle of whiskey in one go. It’s your choice. I’m not going to tell you what to do.
No need to be abrasive Carmo. Your earlier comment is a bit chauvinistic as is the nudge society that “champions positive activities.”
People can do what they want anyway but we should be trying to show kids the best way to lead their lives surely?????? Talk about someone not being able to live with two opposing ideas in their head.
Chauvinistic? You sir, have no complexity to your thought, it’s a cry of “Nanny state” and that’s it. Have you actually anything beyond that in your repertoire?
What’s with the “you sir” business. It sounds like Lisa Simpson. No complexity to your thought? What does that mean. It’s not complex to believe people should be left alone to make their own decisions and mistakes.
I’ve never had a nanny but a lot of them seem to have a reputation for being a mostly positive influence on the child’s development,
Oh well then you’ve made your point then Leo. Not a very original or complex one mind. If you have nothing else to add, I think we’re done here.
They should put the money into running the A&E departments.
So they can deal with their usual clientele of crazy drunk people who injure themselves and others.
Won’t someone please think of the children???? Try parenting them.
I presume people think of their children while their parenting them. You need to get over the simpsons references lads, it’s a bit ten years ago.
Sugar Tax next
Precisely! You are so right. Show us this extra cash is going somewhere worthwhile.
As in Carmos original comment is right.
What do you expect from FG. They are fascists. Enda loves the idea of a dictatorship. This Government have brought in so many regulations. This country dearly needs to get rid of them. Oh and we don’t need their wagtails or SF and FF they are worse
@techman Prohibition is next
The “On the Dry” campaign, ah pull the other one. Alcohol is all about money, increase the prices so more revenue is generated. Wonder if they would be happy of we all stopped drinking tomorrow? Really doubt that, as where would all the tax we pay, come from?
Jaysus that’s very forward thinking… You’d wanna be carefull with chat like that…
Using the same arguments that the government is using to justify increasing the price of alcohol (pressure on health services) we should also increase the price of petrol/diesel as cars are involved in accidents and put pressure on our heath services in dealing with resulting injuries. Its jus ta money grabbing scheme
@ Tom It is a similar argument that the Greens used to increase tax on petrol – remember the carbon tax ? – so just another way for Government to screw the hard pressed consumer.
Meanwhile in the Dail Bar
Image from http://c1.thejournal.ie/media/2014/09/brewhouse-no-4-390×285.jpg.
Might have to take up smoking weed as the old alcohol will be too expensive.
idiots its just a revenue generating exercise why don’t they just admit that….
Tom, thank god for the Lidl, they’ll sue the government’s ass from Dublin to Brussels if they try it.
Hopefully JBM nanny state gone mad see Leo is wearing a tea-shirt where was he when his department was over seeing a 101 lady lying on a trolley for over 24 hours?
Great idea! Increase the profits made by criminals who’ll make a killing selling drink on the black market.
As jumping to conclusions go that one is straight off the Burj Khalifa
Buying it already.
And the criminals in government will make a killing on the open market.
Conclusions? When cigarette prices got jacked up it boosted the sale of counterfeit smokes, even the lads who sell them wouldn’t smoke them because they’re that bad quality, same will happen with drink. Why else are millions of euro worth of fake fags smuggled into the country?
That’s has nothing to do with pricing, it’s entirely about the Irish culture of having laws but no enforcement.
You really need to think about what you plan to say before posting.. Yet again we’ll take the cigarette example: 10.50 – Price for a box of 20 smokes. 5.50 – Moore street price of 20 smuggled cigarettes. If you’re a regular smoker and you’re skint for cash, which one are you going to go for? If someone can’t afford to go to the pub so they have a few quiet ones at home instead, they’re going to go for the cheaper criminality option; solely for the fact it’s far cheaper.
I did, and you probably need to read and understand it before responding
Herp derp. I refer you back to my point. If counterfeit fags and fags sold in the shop where the same price nobody would buy the counterfeit fags. So yes, it IS to do with pricing because it’s the same product for less!!
You continue to believe what you want to, and to portray effect as a cause, to suit whatever your agenda is, and I’ll continue to believe in the facts…so let’s leave it at that
The argument is facile as almost any product that can be bought legally can be bought illegally at a lower price. The goes for cigarettes as much as it goes for cars. You can buy a stolen car much cheaper than you could buy the same model in a garage showroom but most people don’t so as the probability of being caught and the penalty for the crime is big enough to make you decide not to.
Maybe the fines for selling or buying counterfeit cigarettes should be bigger to discourage the market but the argument that we shouldn’t have a law because it will be broken is just too simplistic. If availability of alcohol needs to be regulated either by price or tougher licencing then it should be done, if it doesn’t need to be done then it shouldn’t but we should not be afraid to introduce any law because just we feel someone might break it .
Unless you can present factual evidence to support your claim, I’d much sooner believe in the likes of the tooth fairy or easter bunny.
Go across the border, Asda and Tescos will love the business snd it legal too,
In Portugal you can buy a decent bottle of wine for 2€ and you don’t see the portuguese falling around the place.we have a drinking culture and regardless of the cost of alcohol some p!ss heads will ruin it for everyone else
More backward policies from this shambles of a government
Any better ideas???
Léargas.
How about letting people make their own decisions free from interference from the state.
We all go Moore Street for our booze and then we’ll session through this recession.
A standard drink is glass (284ml) of beer or 100ml of wine. Yet when you ask for a beer or wine in a pub, you’ll be given nearly twice that. A pint of beer is 473ml. And a quarter bottle of wine is 187ml.
http://www.drinkaware.ie/know-your-drinking/how-many-standard-drinks/
So, at the end of the night you say: I’ve had 6 drinks. In fact, you’ve had 10 or 11.
How about getting pubs to serve pub measures of beer and wine (as they always do with spirits, unless you ask for a double)? That might have a knock-on influence on home drinking, as people realise what a standard drink actually is.
Theo “Make their own decisions” ??? Agus céard faoi na millúin atá caite ar fhógraí. Ná cheart mar sin stop a chur leo uilig chomh maith?
@theo how exactly would that work? own decisions about everything is it or just alcohol pricing I’m confused by the limited info in your post ??
“… letting people make their own decisions …” Because people make the best decisions while drinking.
I’m genuinely taken aback by the number of red thumbs to the notion that pubs should serve standard measures as standard. Says a lot about responsibility and attitudes towards drinking practices.
I’m not sure but I think the summation of his worldview is that we should leave all new born babies in the wilderness so we don’t nanny them. Now that is original!
Personal responsibility?
Do you drink in a pub?
Leargas…yesI got a better idea..let the feckers csll a general election…
Gaeltsn….what are you saying?
> Do you drink in a pub?
I don’t know if you’re asking me but if you are:
Yes, I do – and I drink whiskey. That’s how I’ve come to notice the difference between measures for different drinks.
Over the course of a night, me and my friends would all have the same number of drinks – but at the end of the night, I’d be the most together.
Is it ‘cos I’m hardcore? Probably :-) But there’s also a mathematical reason:
Under the standard measures:
1 beer (glass) = 1 wine (100ml) = 1 whiskey (shot).
But under the usual pub measures, where a “standard” beer is a pint and a “standard” wine is quarter bottle, this gets very distorted.
Going by pub measures, a woman (say) who drinks 6 wines has drank the same as man (say) who has downed 7 pints – or the same as me, who has drink 11 whiskeys.
That’s how much we’d all have to drink to have consumed the same amount of alcohol.
It’s messed up to think someone who had drank 6 wines or 7 pints has drank the equivalent of drinking 11 whiskeys – but that’s how the non-standard pub measures of pints and quarter bottles have distorted our drinking habits.
* * *
Now take that habit home:
Suppose you have 4 glasses of wine at night watching a movie – well, you’ll use pub measures as reference for how much to pour, won’t you?
So, now you’re actually drinking 7.5 glasses. And you’ll pour yourself a little more because you’re at home, right? Say you pour yourself 25% more than you’d get in a pub. That takes you to 9.3 glasses.
Instead of drinking 4 glasses of wine, you’ve actually drank the same as 9.3 shots of whiskey.
* * *
I’m “only” 37 but I can remember a time when ordering a glass of beer in a pub wasn’t unusual. It’s hard to imagine now but a glass of beer (not a pint) is the actually the standard measure.
I can’t remember seeing a glass of beer being served in a pub in the last two decades.
A pint of beer is 568ml btw
The pint is the standard measure since the Magna Carta, this standard you refer to is a standard unit. Though it’s not that standard as it’s different from country to country.
i presume we are talking about Ireland
> A pint of beer is 568ml btw
Haha! You’re right! … Dammit, I knew a glass was half a pint!
So, 6 wines = 5.6 beers = 11 whiskeys. Not 7 beers.
And the “four” glasses of wine at home is still 9.5 whiskeys.
This is turning into a conversation that should really happen over a pub table.
Most pubs do. There’s a mark on wine glasses that they fill to.
oliver moran when I went to school a pint was 568ml. when did they change it to 473ml?
Oliver,
I think your missing the point. People should be able to choose to do what they want regarding their own health. People have to be responsible for their own lives and the government should not interfere within reason. Personal responsibility is very important.
I agree with the other suggestions but minimum pricing is just wrong.
It is a poor tax. Rich people will continue doing the same thing anyway because they can afford to. It will lead to an increase in smuggling etc. I can’t see how it is legal in a European sense.
Oliver , this is absolutely Zero to do with Public Health concerns and if you belive it is then more fool you
I draw your attention back to the Water Meters…remember at first we were told they were being put in to help us conserve water!! BUT then that turned out not to be true and theres a flat fee for first few yeara now regardless!!
This is merely a revenue excercise while satisfying the Powerful Lobby of the Vintners!!! Nothing more,nothing less!!
@Ronan: when I Googled “pint in ml” without thinking **blush**
Doesn’t change the substantive point – it even emphasizes it further. The standard pub serving of beer (a pint) and wine (a quarter bottle) is the same in alcohol terms as ordering a double whiskey.
Up at the top of the thread, Léargas asked if anyone had any better ideas to reduce alcohol consumption than minimum pricing. My humble suggestion was to encourage an appreciation that what is considered a “standard drink” in Ireland is not actually a “standard drink”.
It’s a naive suggestion, I agree, but perhaps encouraging people to think in standard drinks instead of the current pub servings would encourage a better pattern of alcohol consumption:
1 beer = 1 wine = 1 spirit
½ pint beer = small glass wine = 1 shot whiskey
http://www.drinkaware.ie/know-your-drinking/how-many-standard-drinks/
In fairness, the suggestion has gone down like a lead balloon.
Better ideas? How about a €300 fine for anyone that has a alcohol related public order offence.
Make those who act the bollox pay.
@Nigel and @Liam,
I think there’s some misunderstanding here. I’m not defending minimum pricing. Léargas asked if anyone had any better ideas: I’m suggesting encouraging a standard drink as a standard measure.
> People should be able to choose to do what they want regarding their own health.
I agree – albeit that the public health system (and other public services) ends up footing the bill.
What I’m saying is that our view of standard servings of alcohol has become distorted by the pub trade. What I’m suggesting is encouraging a system whereby people can better understand how much they drink and thereby make more informed decisions.
As standard, I’m saying pubs should serve the Irish standard drink:
1 beer = 1 wine = 1 spirit
½ pint beer = small glass wine = 1 shot whiskey
That would make it easier to count your consumption of alcohol and make better decisions about how much you can drink.
If you want to order a pint, go for it – just as you can order a double whiskey. Just understand that a pint of beer is a double measure so it’s the same as a double whiskey. And if you want to drink 6 pints a night, go for it. Just understand that it’s the same as drinking 6 double whiskeys.
Who do you think you are Oliver moralising about people’s responsibility. People like you make me sick
You’re wrong Oliver. One pint is the equivalent of a single shot of whiskey -source Drink Aware.Co.UK. You really should get your facts right before you start moralising about other people’s drinking
@Michael, I’m not moralising about anyone. I am flabbergasted at the number of red thumbs, however.
See Liam’s answer to you above – don’t you get it ?
Michael,
I’ve linked to the source throughout – DrinkAware.ie:
http://www.drinkaware.ie/know-your-drinking/how-many-standard-drinks/
The same information can be got on any number of HSE websites. For example:
http://www.yourdrinking.ie/about-alcohol/what-is-a-standard-drink/
> See Liam’s answer to you above – don’t you get it ?
Michael, I get it. But how can you be personally responsible if you don’t know how much alcohol you are consuming? For example, you believe that a one pint of beer is the equivalent of a single shot of whiskey. In fact, it is the equivalent of a double whiskey.
For this information, you can check out the websites above. Here’s also the maths spelt out for you:
- 35ml x 40% = 14ml of alcohol in a shot of whiskey
- 568ml x 5% = 28ml of alcohol in a pint of beer
One of the reasons cited by Oireacthas Committee in their report for bringing in minimum unit pricing was because education measures like what I’m spelling out to you now are ignored by the public.
That’s a very sad fact – but I have to say that the number of red thumb I’ve received for simply pointing out these things … well, that’s only proving their case for them.
See the report here:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/JCHC-Report-on-the-Pre-legislative-Scrutiny-of-the-General-Scheme-of-the-Public-Health-%28Alcohol%29-Bill-2015.pdf
It is just that, a tax on the poor , rich people still drink in the pub, poor people buy a few beers in the supermarket,
Oliver, you are 37 and only now understanding the concept of alcohol units. Well you have only scratched the surface.
What about a couple drinking wine, one having red wine at c.12.5 to14.5% alcohol and one having white at 9.5 to 11.5% alcohol.
Stout, lager and cider are all different % even each category has different % depending on brand.
Same with spirits.
Your alcohol units are only guides.
Do I need to tell you that the speed you drink, your body mass, metabolism and gender debunks all your unit rubbish
Now go read a book about it and catch up on what you should have known decades ago.
Oliver, you are 37 and only now understanding the concept of alcohol units. Well you have only scratched the surface.
What about a couple drinking wine, one having red wine at c.12.5 to14.5% alcohol and one having white at 9.5 to 11.5% alcohol.
Stout, lager and cider are all different % even each category has different % depending on brand.
Same with spirits.
Your alcohol units are only guides.
Do I need to tell you that the speed you drink, your body mass, metabolism and gender debunks all your unit rubbish
Now go read a book about it and catch up on what you should have known decades ago.
By the way, the new tax is on 500ml beers.
David,
Yes, the standard drink is a guide. It’s at the level of a guide that I’m talking.
The substantive point I’m making is that if you ask for a beer in a pub, you get served a pint. If you ask for a whiskey, you get served a shot. It’s reasonable therefore for someone to think that there’s some kind of equivalency between a pint of beer and a shot of whiskey.
Michael thought that. I thought that. I imagine most drinkers would think that.
All I’m saying is that it turns out that a half pint is in fact the equivalent of shot of whiskey (and that a pint is in fact the equivalent of a double whiskey). I’m suggesting that perhaps it’s better to think of a pint as being a large measure, rather than the standard measure. Nothing much more than that, which is why I’m so taken aback at the reaction.
Yes, there are variations in ABV between different wines, spirits and beers but that don’t detract from the point – and I’m not talking about any individual’s consumption.
I agree that this shouldn’t be new information to any drinker – like it was to me and Michael and I presume many many more. It’s from a website linked on every beer mat in the country.
Unfortunately, the fact that it is new information or that most people have been ignoring public information like this is the exact reason why the Oireachtas Committee recommended minimum unit pricing in order to reduce consumption:
So don’t shoot the messenger on this.
A pint is 568ml. 473 is a US pint.
568ml in a pint. I know that from all the pint bottles of bulmers I go through in a week. Hon the lads.
OK. I can see that this is a message that nobody wants to hear so I’ll step away from the dead horse and put the stick down.
But I’ll just give it one last parting lash before I go. I’ll pick an example you might appreciate, Niall.
Suppose you were to drink a 6 cans of Bulmers watching a match – nothing unusual with that? It’s not like you’re putting away a shoulder of vodka or anything?
Let’s do the maths:
- 6 x 500ml x 4.5% = 135ml of alcohol in 6 cans of Bulmers
- 1 x 350ml x 37.5% = 131ml of alcohol in a shoulder of Smirnoff
I’m not being down on anyone with this. I’m surprised at it myself. But anyway – no one wants to hear it – so I’ll put the stick down now and step away from the dead horse.
Oliver – it just mean that I’d have two ‘standard’ glasses of wine in a pub instead of one, etc. I never fill the glass when I drink wine at home (leaving room for the wine to breathe). However I don’t wait until until the glasses are empty before pouring again – I just top up as the conversation flows. I also think most people pour like this at home and will continue to do so irrespective of a standard measure. I appreciate the horse that you are flogging but it’s so dead at this stage in the comments that it’s skeletal by now ;-) When I drink wine at home
We have the highest alcohol costs in Europe and the worst drinking culture!
Price is not the problem and adding taxes so our government take more money off us to line their own pockets and telling us their doing it for our benefit.
Parasites one and all FG FF labour and the Green Party.
In Portugal you can get a drink in any cafe at any time of the day.Different drinking culture though, they are inclined to eat and drink at the same time.If you are just slightly over the limit the police just fine you. The only drunks you see are Irish and British tourists.
Break for the border or the ferry
It’s all about our health of course
Ah father….. Not toilet duck again….!
Just another dope of a minister making shit up to divert attention away from the shambles of a health system that they’re too incompetent to do anything about. They’re not fooling anybody
Leo is overseeing the privatisation of the health system. Keep cutting the public services and close a few regional hospitals. Now force everyone to purchase private healthcare with the new LCR tax and we’re almost there. Of course the problem is that the people who couldn’t afford private insurance before are even less able to afford it now and they end up on the longest waiting lists in Europe….outside of Greece I guess.
If they put all the money they collect in tax and cigarettes into the health service we would have the greatest health service this side of the Galaxy
This leans towards Prohibition for poor people. It won’t hurt the rich at all. The Vast Unwashed being allowed to enjoy a drink? I don’t bally-well think so, chaps!
Another nanny state measure from the increasingly left wing Fine Gael led coalition.
I think you got your left mixed up with your right
I think they generally go what ever way Brussels says so. Anything for a buck.
There is no left or right anymore. It’s all centre mush. Managerial politics.
FG/LAB are destroying the country. Looking at all avenues to empty the pockets of its people to the debts of a few. We pay way over the odds already and they ask for more . General election now..
Co-incidentally, I was looking on Youtube this morning at reviews of cities and countries from an American perspective. One crucial thing in the review of Ireland was the cost of drink and the cost of (mediocre) food. Well done to the coterie of tax grabbers and killjoys. Keep it up. Ireland is becoming less and less attractive as a holiday venue – and the more sophisticated travellers become, the more they will realise that this is a place to avoid.
People already complain about the high price of drinks and food in Ireland, I hear it all the time from people who have been over to Ireland, they usually enjoy themselves but it’s always, great place but way too expensive, most are up front about the fact that they won’t be going back there again, adding more taxes and that’s what this minimum pricing is, a TAX is just going to drive tourists away and as usual the ordinary people who don’t binge drink or don’t cause havoc on a saturday night are the ones who have to suffer higher prices because as usual the only solution the Irish govt ever has is to TAX IT MORE. Pathetic!
My home brewing kit is proving to be a shrewd investment. Now if I could just stop the beer from tasting and smelling like an elephants genitals and being more toxic than nuclear waste, I’d be laughing.
Keep trying, try a grain kit
Ireland’s alcohol consumption is not at all out of sync with our northern European neighbours.This is just fear mongering nanny statism looking to raise some regressive tax money.They’ll screw the poor drinkers of Ireland but they don’t have the balls to do the sensible thing and ban all alcohol advertising… This could be Endas children’s shoe tax moment…Finally…
This is not about health , its the government’s way of getting more tax. In the Bible Jesus turned water into wine….Enda is now trying to turn wine into water …..Irish Water to be precise.
Like a child with a hammer who sees everything as a nail, the only solution legislators seem to have regardless of the problem is yet another levy or tax. Not terribly big on imagination!it seems.
Yea well the people vote for the governments they get.
I think where people get it wrong is thinking that voting will change anything. That last lot are bad put this new lot in and it will be okay. No it is largely the same no matter what. Remember how great Obama was going to be in 08 when he got elected. He has lower opinion rating than Bush. They wouldn’t let us vote on things that might have a difference on our lives. Example there is no vote for the people on the TTIP. Discussions held in private and if a vox pop was held on the street most wouldn’t know what it was.
I’ve never seen any stats published to justify this MUP. Have any been produced? How can the consumer get a fair deal when there is a minimum price set, how can the market function normally? Surely bad practices can be outlawed and the rest left to manage itself like other markets? The lack of hard info is very frustrating…
Hundreds on trolleys and the come up with this bullshit.What a joke.
Leo , you have to be the worst minister of health this state has ever known. Why don’t you deal with the overloaded trolleys and waiting lists as you should instead of generating new taxes to pay of the debts of an elite few. We already pay way over the odds for a beer. This will force people across the border. Taxing us to oblivion is all FG/LAB know..
Ah now, what about James Reilly and you can’t forget Mary Harney. Sadly we’ve had a long list of shit Health Ministers. Perhaps if any of them could negotiate we wouldn’t be buying generic drugs at up to 98% the price of the originals. Maybe we could start to balance the budgets if we weren’t paying more for drugs produced in Ireland than other European countries who buy them from Ireland. Its cheaper to drive across to the north and buy Irish produced medicines than to buy the same medicines here in Ireland. Its sheer madness.
Omeprazole 2euro in Spain 26 euro in Ireland. Disgraceful
How about bringing in more white collar laws to prevent the real destruction of our country. Maybe then people would stop being driven to drink…
Heigh ho! Off to the North! Won’t vote FG, Lab or FF next time! SF or independents!
something else for the customers to pay!
When the people accepted and cheered the smoking ban based on debunked science they presented an open door for further nanny statism and the curtailing of liberty and personal freedom.
Those of us who warned that this would lead to further restrictions on freedom were sneered at.
And when they have done with alcohol the nanny staters will move on to sugar, fat, carbs etc. They are addicted to interfering in people’s lives.
More of an excuse for more tax under the guise of “caring for the plebs who can’t think for themselves” rather than a nanny state I think Theo
Yes, sure people should have the freedom to drink and drive, abuse their kids, defecate on the street, dump their rubbish wherever they want or burn it, maybe let off nuclear explosives? What a puerile argument. I suppose if we had a spate of people killing themselves because of some new drug or activity we would just ignore that because, hey that’s their choice.
Even smokers agree the smoking ban was a great thing. The state has a duty of care towards their citizens and that’s a good thing. They can go too far maybe but your example of the smoking ban is a good one.
@Carmo, why does the Government’s “Duty of care” always translate into regressive tax policies that taking money from the pockets of ordinary citizens? Besides, where’s the peer-reviewed scientific evidence that this increased charge will have *any* impact on consumption levels? It’s yet another thinly veiled money grab under the guise of “social improvement”.
Whos going back up North!!! The Buttercrane Centre has 6 for £6
Enda will be praying for the return of border control if this law gets through!!
The issue isn’t the price of drink nor the minorities abuse of it, and yes it is a minority, the major issue is there’s very little alternative to going to the pub for evening entertainment.
Have you tried getting a Girlfriend for your evening entertainment?
Those who think they can run up north and get it cheaper are in for a shock….this is being done in conjuction with the UK , who are doing something similar. Since the recession and since pubs have started charging mega money for a pint, most people choose to stay at home and enjoy a cheaper drink, these people are the real targets make no mistake, how dare they get of cheap!!!! Its a win win , get them to pay more taxes or force them back into the greedy pubs keeping the vintneers happy!! Beer is very easy to make and produce so yes there will be a massive black market.
This proposal is a case of nanny statism gone too far. I reckon if the proposal was put to a popular vote then it would be rejected resoundingly. I also ask who is calling for this measure?
Vintners lobby group 2,50 for a 80 cent can and no one can undercut you
“At the top of the spectrum, that would put the minimum price on the average 500ml can of beer at about €2, a bottle of wine at more than €8 and a bottle of spirits at nearly €24.
The price increase was expected to lead to both higher VAT returns for the government and increased profits for drinks companies, the report said.”
I just so hate this nanny state government that I voted for.
Doesn’t the Dail have a bar?
http://www.thejournal.ie/tom-barry-pulls-aine-collins-into-his-lap-987972-Jul2013/
A tax-free bar to be exact.
Newery town here I come trailer attached an a fistful of euros.
If it were suggested that workers be allowed to drink at work…what would the Government response be….I wonder.
Some sort of “responsibility” campaign or something?
Well they can hardly call it “responsibility” when most of our legislation was made by them while under the influence of alcohol….perhaps any legislation made on nights when the Dáil bar tab raises above a certain level should be thrown in the bin.
I’m sure when this levy is being voted through the Dáil as TD’s are pissed up to the eyeballs the idea of it being a “social responsibility levy” will go right over their inebriated heads.
Of course you would, So would we all. But they intend to coordinate it with the Brits so it comes in there as well
Banning alcohol manufacturers’ sponsorship of sporting events would be nonsense because:
1. The consumption of alcohol by children is illegal and alcohol manufacturers don’t want to be accused of aiming their advertisements at children.
2. A person having a few alcoholic drinks poses no risk to others, as long as he or she does not consume alcohol excessively and does not drive under the influence of alcohol, unlike a person who smokes, i.e. passive smoking.
3. Alcohol, unlike tobacco, doesn’t cause lung cancer or difficulties with breathing. Excessive consumption of alcohol causes cirrhosis and other problems with health but moderate consumption of alcohol causes no harm; There’s no such thing as moderate consumption of tobacco.
This is typical. Sell alcohol in the same place as cornflakes and just increase tax on it.
MMM To promote healthy drinking ? don’t really think so! what I think if the Beer gets dear we go back to the old days and cross the border or the really old way and start with the auld poteen again high cost wont stop people never has never will.
leo ffs get on with sorting out people on trolleys , waiting lists etc etc and stop acting the gobs***e with silly tshirts !
What a load of bollocks! Just another way of screwing another tax out of the country, how desperate must they be? A little reminder that Northern Ireland is just a short drive away, feel sorry that all its going to do is close more pubs! Who in sweet Jesus name thinks of this crap? Please please someone tell me!!!!,
Our wonderful government are at it again. I am fully convinced they have think in’s to dream up ways of screwing the public. They weren’t happy with charging us for water now they want to add extra to alcohol also. What they fail to realise is pubs are on their knees all around the country. Tourists would immediately be hit again, restaurants, clubs, the social aspect of getting out for a drink at the weekends for both young and old would be hit. For some older people especially in rural areas getting out for a pint is there only chance to talk to another human face to face. Remember we don’t even have milkmen , bread men etc anymore and with stamps going up in price again and companies switching to paperless billing there will be less post arriving, so people may not be missed for days/weeks. When are we going to revolt and just say enough is enough were not going to be screwed any longer.
I know there are people that believe the crap that this is designed to curb binge drinking, our government don’t care about binge drinkers they are only interested in generating revenue any which way they can. Binge drinkers will drink no matter what the price it’s the ordinary citizens who will suffer. Naturally they are starting in the wrong place again they need look no further than the Dail and government buildings if they want to save money. Time to think again lads the election is coming!
Gifted one….this will only affect alcoholic drinks sold in off-licences and supermarkets…not pubs….you don’t think TD’s who own pubs would actually allow more tax on drink sold on their premises.
No…this is an attempt to increase tax on the ordinary person to pay down more bank debt……and keep TD’s in the style they’re accustomed to.
Why is it when ever this crowd want to introduce something out always involves is paying more to them. Thanks but no thanks.
joke of a country.
I haven’t read the comments, not all of them anyway, but in case someone else hasn’t said it already. I WILL GO TO NORN IRON TO GET MY DRINK!!
That’s why they need to put graphic warnings on the bottles and cans, to distinguish imported from domestic with an disincentive of a fine if caught with it.
Because prohibition has worked so well every country in which it was used. People will run the risk of having it, they will brew their own, they will buy illegal drink (eg Poitín) etc. etc. I don’t normally do cynicism but I can see no real reason for this other than as a way to gather more tax. After all, we must pay those gamblers in the banks.
Jasus this government just loves levies, they would sicken the hole off ye.
when it comes to Gov and their stats, would they show us the stats on alcohols sales in the Irish Parliament in comparison to parliaments of our EU neighbours……don’t hold your breath
We are all idiots, just another plan to screw money from ordinary people who have already paid over 50 % income tax. Along with vat and excise duty. and idiots that we are we will all vote for Enda and clap when he gets re-elected. soon to follow. … Sugar tax. …Fat tax,, Water tax… Green Tax Plastic bag tax ,,, sorry we have those already
If people want to drink then they will drink. No price increase up to bite has been proven to have reigned in the drinking culture, so it’s idiotic to believe this one will.
And the tax take from this will go to addiction centres and hospital – oh Ya that part is not in this new Bill cos it’s just another austerity measure in the guise of protecting your Health! If there was a lies tax in government buildings, there’d be steam coming out of the exchequer till!
Only people happy with this will the likes of asda up north
thank god we have the north
This is nanny-state nonsense. There’s not way that can logically justify this.
The Key words here are: “higher VAT returns for the government and increased profits for drinks companies”
Nothing else comes into it at all! It will do nothing to stop underage drinking, it will do nothing to help alcoholics.
Dirty, thieving shower of b******s
There goes the last bit of fun we had left!
Irish people cannot be educated so we must tax you all even more.
under EU law you are well entitled to order abroad. surprises me for years nobody is doing it
The premium beer makers seem to distinguish themselves by price while still being fairly poor stuff to drink. So if Dutch swill is going to be a minimum of 12 euro for a six pack wonder how much the rest of them are going to have to charge to maintain their premium perception. Can’t see myself shelling out 20 bucks for a six pack of other muck.
And the biggest thing is for the governments tax pot not for the care of any child
highly recommend kit homebrewing get started for about 150 eur pay for itself in a few momths.can pay as little as 50 for first brew with less advanced equipment
Why do I and others like me , have to pay the price for those irresponsible drinkers that can’t control themselves ! Tired of paying through the nose for everything, and the odd tipple will cost more to ease the “pain ” grrrrrr
how to live in Ireland and have a life. don’t smoke, drink, eat out, own a house, own a car, fuel any car, turn on a tap, work in a middle or higher earning bracket, enter education. If you follow these simple rules you will live happily. Ireland “sure feic it , its the home of craic”
FG. Putting more money in our pockets so they can take it away with more tax. You have to give it to Bertie, he was a chancer, but at least he let us keep a bit of our hard earned money! What’s the point in working if I’m just going to be paying every last cent I make back in tax? FG have the country working to live right now.
60ct a can in Holland,
Taxing alcohol is definitely the way forward. Not only are you creating more stay-at-home alcoholics, you are also punishing the majority for the actions of the minority. Why has the government never considered actually punishing people for committing crimes under the influence, instead of just punishing everyone?
@Noel
Spot on..why cant the Minority who clog up a+e ..or cause damage etc be hit with a hefty fine..with attachment orders to wages/welfare plus an enforced curfew..or make them do community service in brightly coloured overalls..the ordinary drinker wont be affected..the type who occasionally cant hold their drink will be too embarrased to repeat it..and the core of troublemakers will be too broke to repeat it too often..but only if its properly done..supervised drunk tanks..fast track dedicated courts..with sentencing via video link etc
security at a+e and an iron fist approach…but bellend would rather punish all instead of the few..
thats it.. I’m outta here first chance I get
Another stealth tax.
I’ll be buying mine in Newry so I don’t care
We are such idiots in this country, constantly being taken for fools by successive governments, and what do we do about it, absolutely nothing. We have been screwed for years under taxes such as VRT, USC, carbon taxes, a tax on private sector pensions, the highest inheritance tax in the developed world, not to mention alcohol taxes and fuel taxes. So when our all so caring government decides to take us for fools yet again, and increase the price of alcohol yet again whilst pretending that it’s to stop us all drinking so much, we will sit back and do as we always do, absolutely nothing.
People are just going to go up the north..
The parasitic Fine Gael party strike again.
Health me hole,this is revenue generation.Kenny and his german crew couldn’t give a toss about our health,Varadkar the spokesman for everything has ballsed the system up even more than Reilly.
Thankyou once again to my Government, for looking after me as a citizen. As I am in no way capable, responsible or knowledgable enough to make sensible choices in my adult life or for those around me, I am truly thankful for your wise regulation and prudent taxation. I also trust you implicitly to spend my money better than I can.
When I do give in to temptation and visit a purveyor of such dangerous intoxicants, I am reassured that have done what you can to deter me, and that I duly pay my debt to society as you receive your fair share of the purchase price.
I only wish vile corrupt barbaric continental neighbours such as France, where a beer can be purchased any time of day or night for a euro, of or a bottle of wine for a highly irresponsible fiver, would follow suit so they might aspire to such greatness as us.
This stinks of the ‘Vintners Lobby Group’.
It’d be interesting to know how many current TD’s are publicans, or are related to publicans.
Either way, the vintners fingerprints are all over this …
We are already 70% higher than the European average for alcohol, How much is a pint in the Dail bar?
Change the culture not the prices ye parasites.
Vintners Lobby 1 Joe & Joanna Public 0
These freeloading cancerous parasites were voted in by the people and by Christ they will be kicked out on their pathetic worthless backsides by the people.
I can’t wait for these vermin to call begging for a vote so that they can freeload at the trough.
Typical of this shower,”don’t tackle it,tax it “.
How about giving using the extra revenue to build young people more amenities. Recognise Ireland is a country beset by rain and then build sports facilities and recreational activities that are not weather dependent. Get young people out of pubs and into doing diverse activities.
Whos up for the morning ferry to France to stock up? Of course the Dali bar will be overflowing whatever happens. Might just go into politics for drinks on the state! Lol
OK!….who’s taking the horse to France?
Another F*****G levy (tax) Christ I’d love to be in a position to immigrate and get the f*** out of here
Doubles & Trebles all round, barkeep, please :)
Anyone want to back me on a Home brewing retail shop business set up? Hombrewed alcohol is a fraction of the price and not as full of chemicals!! I don’t drink (apart from a glass of wine at Xmas or a wedding)- not going to effect me in the slightest! but won’t this promote other harmful drugs? Young people will probably substitute other substances that are illegal instead of alcohol- not a very wise move IMO and motivated by bringing in Revenue to pay for a giveaway to get Elected!!
just go up the north and buy your drink in bulk,,, when they start losing revenue from sales they’ll have to reverse the minimum charge
I’ll accept a minimum price as long as it comes with A Maximum price … Fat chance !
Have FG lost the plot,altogether ? This is going to cost them many,many votes
The North will just get busy again with shoppers from the South.
Non alcohol drink Erdinger in a hotel in Meath cost €5 20
If the government is looking to create an even bigger market for smugglers and illegal stillers and make the driving of alcoholic drinks around the country a dangerous occupation, then they’re heading in the right direction.
Bodega Rivera in Torrevieja has good wine from the barrel at 90cent per litre. I used to fill the boot and take back 150 litres at a time in empty 10L plastic water bottles.It’s exactly the same wine that you can get in Aldi for €3.99 a bottle. Now we can see how Aldi sells it so cheaply.
More taxes to make the cost of visiting Ireland even more expensive – just when rural tourism needs to stay competitive. When will we face the facts that it’s socially acceptable to be drunk in Ireland ? it’s what we do and until we change our drinking culture this action will do nothing. Just more taxation – that’s all folks!
Would vardker and buttimer and co take a jump in the lake and allow us the freedom to drink sensibly
So if the report expects higher VAT and profit returns, I assume then they don’t actually believe it would lower harmful drinking but instead just increase revenue and leave everybody out of pocket
Teenagers do not buy wine?
yeah.. time to get out the homebrew kit.
How about forcing pubs to serve food for a start.
24 cans(330ml) of San Miguel beer in salou €8.95 we getting rode big time in Ireland
High alcohol cost equals high percentage of welfare money spent on it.
What will the poor ballymunners do ???
We will just have to continue to raise welfare and return the ‘Christmas bonus’ to its original level.
This is obviously a result of pressure from the vintners association – I wish there were a consumers union of some kind – an organization with thousands of members that would band together when the call went out to fight these constant rip-off taxes and levies. Imagine, for example, if there were a total and sustained boycott of local pubs, what would happen to the price?……. But without leadership we are powerless, except maybe, hopefully, to act individually and decide to stay away from the pub in determined protest – I know I will – starting today I will go to the pub only on rare occasions and will buy my home drinks in Newry or on-line.
the majority of us suffer because aholes cannot drunk.
drink.
And off we go to the North!
i wish i could follow you
Another way to steal from the people. Sick of all these extra stealth taxes being introduced in one way or another.
Go North, wine is cheaper there are, go North, beer tax is fair, go North……
I dunno what drinkers are complaining about: as a non (alcohol) drinker, non alcoholic drinks cost even more. look at a pint of Rock Shandy – €5.20 a “pint’. At that rate publicans make far more on that pint than any alcoholic pint…..
The last statement:
“and the rate of consumption has been increasing over the past two decades.”
Complete and utter rubbish. Where’s the source for that outrageous statement? Every published statistic shows a marked decrease in consumption over the last 10 years. One just needs to look at the OECD or similar reports. It takes moments to find on google.
That’s an incredibly sloppy statement And should be changed.
Setting aside the social merits or otherwise of the MUP, the levy completely misunderstands how pricing works. If it were possible to increase prices across the entire market and increase profits as a result it would have happened already. Setting the MUP at best leaves profits unchanged, so imposing a levy in addition is unjustifiable.
as a young person im terrified of what the government is doing to this country, the price of alcohol in Germany is nearly half of what it is here and there is less alcohol abuse, this government is so stupid and greedy and they think we are stupid sheep
im guessing we will see a return to bootleg alcohol and poitin which will not have well regulated alcohol contents and be more harmful to people…. why do they not see this!!!??? i give up :(
looks like there will be a return to poitin making, i wish i could leave this country :(
Ha ha, I can make 8 bottles of wine for under a fiver… Homebrew…
have your say