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“YOU GUYS NEVER protest, if this was France people would be out on the streets in their thousands.” Perhaps my French friend had a point – his country puts us to shame when it comes to a good old-fashioned protest. That said, it’s not as if we don’t pound the pavement when we feel the need.
The recent abortion demonstrations (on both sides of the argument) and marches highlighting the third-level grant debacle are two recent examples of young people putting their money where their megaphone is. Our protests may be less frequent than our Gallic counterparts, but perhaps that’s a sign of our cultural differences as much as anything else.
Activist and journalist Orla Tinsley recently wrote about the seeming absence of the protest gene in Irish young people, saying: “lack of protest does not mean lack of engagement”. Tinsley said this generation’s “sphere of political action is shifting” and now encompasses work with lobby groups, NGOs and online activism as well as more traditional forms of participation such as involvement in student unions and youth divisions of political parties.
As with many issues, a generation gap is also evident. Young people can at times feel politics is a game almost solely played by older, out-of-touch people.
This disconnect was accentuated by the SpunOut.ie ‘threesome scandal’. When Fine Gael TD Michelle Mulherin questioned the fact that a website partially funded by the HSE gave information to young people about threesomes, the Minister of Health James Reilly ordered a review of the site. The comments from the website were taken out of context and the ensuing negative publicity could have easily damaged what is an unparalleled resource for young people in terms of their overall health and wellbeing.
Some of our politicians are actively trying to bridge this type of gap. Our president Michael D Higgins attempted just that when he invited Ireland’s youth community to share their opinions as part of the ‘Being Young and Irish 2012’ project.
The subsequent report was the result of four regional dialogues and incorporated the views of almost 800 contributors ranging in age from 17-26 years. Concerns regarding political reform and accountability, mental health and suicide, the economy, education and equality (particularly in terms of gay marriage and the gender pay divide) all featured.
Initiatives such as this prove that young people want to have their voices heard. It’s also encouraging to see our Head of State take such a proactive role in this regard.
Regional dialogues are a major element of the European Year of Citizens and Ireland’s Presidency of the Council of the EU. A recurring shortcoming at such events has been the lack of young people attending.
When I questioned the Minister for European Affairs Lucinda Creighton about this at the Galway-based dialogue, she said that “every effort is bring made” to get young people interested and partaking.
“I think people often feel that events like this are for politicians or professional lobbyists. It’s difficult to attract people to take the discussion from their living room or local pub to an organised structure like this, but we’re trying,” Minister Creighton stressed. She also noted that young people often don’t attend such events as they feel “less connected” to politics than others.
Minister Creighton insists it can’t all be one-way traffic, though. She feels the Irish Government and EU are creating an environment for the public to share opinions with politicians and it’s up to them to capitalise on that. She said:
“Citizens also have to accept responsibility, you know, we’re not living in a nanny state… You can bring a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink.”
Various political scandals and our current economic woes have increased levels of mistrust in politicians among young people. This does not mean we are apathetic, however.
If anything, the age at which people become politically engaged is decreasing. Many organisations recognise this and are trying to act accordingly. A month ago, the Constitutional Convention recommended the voting age be lowered from 18 years to 16.
Ireland is not the only country debating such a move. Last month, proposed legislation that would reduce the voting age in the Scottish independence referendum to 16 years was formally lodged. Proposals to allow 16 and 17-year-olds vote in EU Parliamentary elections are also currently being considered.
The National Union of Students – Union of Students in Ireland, which represents over 200,000 students in Northern Ireland, called for a reduction in the voting age across the border.
Speaking at the group’s annual conference in Fermanagh, NUS-USI President Adrianne Peltz said it was “grossly unfair” that 16-year-olds could pay taxes but not have a say on how this money is spent. “There is so much disenchantment and disengagement with politics and it is crucial that politics and decision-making reconnects with young people. Delivering the vote at 16 is a key way to do this,” Peltz emphasised.
The National Youth Council of Ireland backs up this view. The organisation believes that lowering the voting age would promote political participation among young people and ensure youth issues are firmly placed on the country’s political agenda.
The insinuation that young people just ‘aren’t bothered’ about politics is insulting and false. True, some young people don’t care what their public representatives are up to – that’s if they even know who they are, but the same could be said for any social grouping.
Austria and certain states in Germany have reduced the voting age to 16. In these places, voter turnout among 16 and 17-year-olds is equal to older age groups.
So to answer that age-old question, do young people care about politics? YES. Our generation has never been more politically aware and engaged. How we choose to involve ourselves may be changing, but we are here – trying to make a difference and have our voices heard.
The horse is at the water and it’s thirsty.
Órla Ryan is an MA Journalism student in NUI Galway. She is one of 25 citizen journalists covering Ireland’s presidency of the EU Council through Youth Media and the Irish Presidency. This article was first published on the YMIP blog.
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We have a Citizen’s Assembly here now to deal with the issue of a proposed change to the Irish constitution.
Latest opinion polls suggest that a strong majority of Irish citizens do not want a British style abortion on demand regime.
Best of luck with your campaign.
It’s pointless.
@Emmet O’Keeffe: not at all pointless.
By leaving the 8th in place it means we fail to provide proper services to women who have been victims of rape or incest. We fail couples who have a fetus with FFA.
The Citizen’s Assembly is nothing more than the government kicking the can down the road instead of dealing with the issue here and now.
The best thing to happen is hold a ref on appealing the 8th, then we should legislate accordingly. If you think its “pointless” then you have nothing to fear from a ref to appeal it.
@Emmet O’Keeffe: Smarmy meaningless comment! Poll shows 75% want greater access to abortion. Minority want to keep the 8th amendment.
The author makes no distinction between those who want abortion on demand without any restrictions and those who seek abortion services in cases of FFA, rape and on other ‘humanitarian’ grounds.
She’s out of touch with the Irish electorate, her viewpoint is more British than Irish and that’s why her campaign is as pointless as women Tweeting their experiences and the other crowd on the bus.
@Emmet O’Keeffe: How come it never says how long you’ve been on here? That’s weird.
@Titus Groan:
About an hour at this point.
@Emmet O’Keeffe: who are you to say whats pointless ?
@Gus Sheridan:
Probably as effective as Enda Kenny campaigning around London prior to the Brexit vote.
@Emmet O’Keeffe: Your lonely trolling aside, abortion will be legal in Ireland this time next year. How many referendums do you have to lose before realising the Catholic Church is dead in this land, LOL!
@Titus Groan: The poor pets new account is less than six months old :)
@Oh Dear!: This one is 6 months old but as Tommy, Oran, Alex and any other black and white photographs he can get his hands on he’s been around for a while.
@Oh Dear!:
Hi Rosie, nice new account. Not as fabulous as your old one though.
@Emmet O’Keeffe: It’s still my old one :) Poor pet :)
Injustice my hole. I’m proud of our laws.
@Dean Burroughs: red thumb
@Dean Burroughs: red thumb x 100 for you
@Dean Burroughs: Proud of the dead women and girls caused by limited access to healthcare due to pregnancy?
Proud of keeping a dead woman on life support while her partner and children watched her body rot and decay because her rights had been reduced to that of a zygote?
Bravo for you ::slow clap::
Abortion should never be available on demand.
The majority of first trimester abortions should be provided through video links :) Get with the times :)
@Patrick Pints: The term ‘on-demand’ is wrong. A woman can’t demand anyone to do anything. She can request a termination. No medical personnel are forced to do anything. The term misses the point that any procedure follows consultation with a doctor. We just need a system that respects the fact women can make a difficult decision for personal reasons that are no one else’s business.
@Patrick Pints: abortion happens for Irish women every day just not in this country.
@Deborah Behan: Slavery happens every day in the world, just not in this country. What’s the view? “My plantation, my choice?”
Is it not also the business of the person growing inside her?
@Sea Goat: “Is it not also the business of the person growing inside her?”
No!
@Sea Goat: no!! Unless I missed the change in the constitution that magically allows embryos to speak vote..
I thought that was the whole debate? The embroy has human rights and is entitled to life vs the woman’s right to self determination. Am I wrong?
@EvieXVI: you misunderstand the term I think. On-demand means at will and without restriction. And of course approx 80% of Irish people don’t want this, uncontrolled ending of life.
@Sean @114: I didn’t misunderstand the term. I just think it’s deliberately provocative. The most liberal abortion laws still require an agreement by with medical personnel, who will always be in a position to refuse. That’s my point.
@Sea Goat: Yes. Once pregnant a woman has her rights reduced to that of a non thinking, non feeling, non aware embro.
@EvieXVI: I think you’ll find that most ‘medical personnel’ working in abortion clinics in countries where the abortion rate is 20%+ seldom refuse an abortion. The consultation is a box checking exercise. Besides there is millions of dollars to be made. It’s not in any medical person’s interest, in these clinics, to deny an abortion request. On-demand means just that, at will, whenever you like, drive through etc
Or to look at that from the other perspective – once a human is concieved they have the same human rights of everybody else.
@Sea Goat: That’s a perspective all right – just not mine, nor indeed that of many people…
“there’s millions of dollars to be made ”
The “millions of dollars” to be made is when people go full term with the pregnancy..True story!
@Sean @114: ‘drive through”- way to keep it real!!
@DaisyChainsaw: daisy you were an embryo once but you were allowed to develop into a thinking feeling human being
@EvieXVI: they won’t refuse if they work in an abortion clinic and they’re wages are paid by the women having the procedure
@Tricia Lowry: I know that. My point is about the term ‘on-demand’ is provocative. Women are not ‘demanding’ anything, they are seeking medical intervention. We don’t talk about any other medical procedures in this way, we don’t, for example, say ‘on-demand’ caesarian section, or ‘on-demand’ rhinoplasty; we use the word ‘elective.’
@Patrick Pints: how do you have the right to tell any woman that she can’t have an abortion? Does any woman tell you what to do with your sperm?
@EvieXVI: those medical interventions are to save lives not take them. I’m a woman with four daughters all young professionals and they all feel as I do.
@Samantha Gillingham: If you don’t known the scientific difference between a human fetus and sperm, might I politely recommend you pick up a biology book before proceeding further. Failure to do so may leave you taken less than seriously.
@Tricia Lowry: I listed elective procedures that don’t save lives – nice of you to tell me that you have daughters who are professional but nothing to do with what I posted….
I do get a giggle out of the generation of privileged irish middle class brats who call themselves “ex pats”
You’re an immigrant
@Inky Winky: Giggle away Winky – leaving the parish pump, paedophile priests, corrupt politicians, robbing bankers etc., was the best thing I ever did. And Ryanair bring me back whenever I want….
@Fank Pulman: yes you would never find corrupt politicians and bankers in Great Britain. There all saints over there and soon to be standing alone outside europe. I’d have your passport ready, if I was you, for when you catch your post Brexit Ryanair flights back home to Ireland and back into Europe.
@Fank Pulman: Fank is all sophisticated now that he lives in metropolis of Kilburn
@Fank Pulman: Oh Oh I knew someone would bring the Bankers into this abortion debate Now what bankers has got do with this I am at a loss ???
@Fank Pulman: I hope that’s not too often for our sakes.
Yes! Great article, great work! Repeal the 8th.
Reform, don’t Repeal.
@Andrew Eager: You can’t reform because the backwards and flawed 8th amendment would take priority over any legislation introduced.
What needs to happen is appeal the 8th then properly legislate for the issue.
@Barry Somers: Wrong. The Eighth is only words. The words in the Eighth can be changed as we see fit. It’s only people with agenda’s either extreme pro-life or pro-choice, that are telling us otherwise.
@Andrew Eager: so which women would you allow to have an abortion and which ones would you force to become parents?
@Deborah Behan: Nobody is forced to be a parent. A parent is somebody who tends to the long-term well-being of children. Adoption is a thing.
@Andrew Eager: Our Attorney General disagrees with you. He is of the opinion that any further relaxation of legislation (e.g. FFA) would be deemed unconstitutional.
As there are many complex circumstances where a woman may want or important, should be provided access to abortion, and any replacement provision in the constitution would lead to unforeseen circumstances (more X and Y cases), the only practical approach is the repeal the 8th.
The Dail would then be free to legislate on specific circumstances for abortion, and to amend laws quickly, if other cases arise where the majority believe that compassion or justice is not being served
@Alan Lawlor: dail won’t be free to legislate. That’s the whole reason the 8th went in in the first place. The wording is not fit for Ireland today, therefore it needs amending.
@Andrew Eager: Which births would you force then? Rape babies are okay to abort, but not when the woman enjoyed the sex?
“Adoption is a thing”
So is abortion :)
@Oh Dear!: So is murder, the intentional killing of a humam being. If the fetus isn’t human, what is it? a) horse b) a platypus or c) a stegasaurus d) an inconvenient truth.
@Matt Connolly: Thank you Matt.
@DaisyChainsaw: Personally, I wouldn’t like to see rape babies aborted, but I can certainly appreciate the necessity to have such an option in place for women deeply traumatised by their experience. It’s called the lesser of two evils. You should try nuance for a change, you might find it suits you. It’s really not that scary.
@Andrew Eager:
Anti choice dictionary :
Murder : the unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human embryo or a human foetus..
“Free the ‘human’ embryo” :)
@Andrew Eager: Then how many babies would you personally be willing to adopt?
Of course you dont have a vote since you are no longer living here or paying tax to the Irish Government.
Scrap the citizens assembly and hold the referendum. We elect politicians to decide regulation and such regulation clearly has no place in our constitution
Cara – I live in London too, and agree with you totally.
Though educated by Catholics, I no longer subscribe to that religion.
And am amazed – on my visits back to Dublin – at the hold that discredited/unelected organisation still seems to have.
I shall be joining you and your logical associates….
@Fank Pulman: what has Catholicism got to do with a moral question such as life or death of the unborn? If you spent more time in Ireland you would know that mass attendance is at an all time low, 2-3% in some areas of the capital. Not many pay any heed to church teachings. 78% of those polled recently expressed a view that abortion on demand should not be available in Ireland. All bible bashing Catholics and/or members of the Iona Institute? No.
@Fank Pulman: Jesus Fank you’re not the first to leave Ireland. You must have had your head buried in the sand while living here if you only discovered the faults when you left. Tell us about that time you lived in Australia……yawn
The 8th Amendment is Roman Catholic dogma initiated and procured by the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland and has the force of Cinstitutional imperative.
The influence of the Roman Catholic Church is Ireland is still pervasive and insidious.
There is a significant degree of Roman Catholic theocracy at work in Ireland, even amongst non practjcising Roman Catholics.
@Tony Daly:
Welcome back Tony. Sadly you’ll find that the new format is not conducive to spamming the forum.
@Tony Daly: not everyone who’s against an abortion are religious .. maybe with some of the older generation it is but not nowadays. .
@Suzie Sunshine: You’re right Suzie, only 99.9% of them are religious.
@OpenBorders: so 99.9% of people in this country are religious ? Interesting. …
@Tony Daly: get a life Tony we can form opinions without being influenced by the RCC.
We’re paying for the Karen Straughan article now
A reform of the 8th is whats needed not a repeal
I fully understand a Woman’s right to an abortion but only for the right reasons ie the child wont definitely survive once born or the pregnancy could cause the death of the woman and so forth but i’m against it being used because a girl and guy had sex for the fun of it and didn’t use adequate protection like a condom especially when they are ready available and then the girl finds herself pregnant due to their stupidity. Thats not what abortion should be about here in Ireland. Its a defenceless baby at the end of the day.
@#knowingitall: what about when contraception fails? They are not 100% reliable
@#knowingitall: The vast majority of women seeking a termination were using contraception. No contraception is 100% effective. Saying crisis pregnancies are down to “stupidity” is ignorant. If you are opposed to abortion, don’t have one.
“It’s a defenceless baby at the end of the day ”
Aww shucks! Another person that believes that an embryo is a “baby” So cute!
@Francis Mc Carthy: you developed from an embryo were you not a baby.
@Tricia Lowry: Wow! I never knew that.You really do learn something new everyday…Thanks.
@Francis Mc Carthy: weren’t you lucky your mother allowed you to develop why do you want to deprive others of the chance.
@Max Sullivan: That is to say, they SAID they were using contraception. And even then, were they using it responsibly?
Yes! I was ‘lucky’that my mother wanted me and that she wasn’t forced against her will to give birth to me..If you are so concerned about embryos going to full term,then do some fundraising for the ones that never make it to utero..Wish you well…
No Cara. When the fasten seatbelt light illuminates, my right to decide what happens to another body inside your body is paused.
It amuses me that the very people crying about the Tuam babies are also supporting abortion. Adoption is a thing. How many couples are going abroad to adopt or going for surrogacy because it’s so difficult to get passed for foreign adoptions. The baby may not be wanted by its natural mother but it most certainly would find a home. In the case of FFA or where the mothers life is in danger I would support the parents right to make the best decision for themselves but certainly not abortion on demand.
@Tricia Lowry: A baby would find a home, specially when it is healthy and white. But why should a woman go though a pregnancy and birth for strangers. This is more like unpaid surrogacy.
The treatment of women and babies in Mother and Baby homes and the torture of pregnant Irish women due to the 8th amendment stems from the same unwillingness of the state to give women have self determination. There are thousands of children in state care in Ireland. It’s preposterous to say “adoption exists” and pretend that’s a solution. In any case women should not be forced to carry a pregnancy to term because you’d prefer it. There are many reasons to seek a termination beyond FFA, rape, incest, and all of them are valid.
@Christina V.: people are travelling all over the world for surrogates some have to use diner eggs all the babies are not white. Many children in state care now could be adopted but it takes a long time I have experience of the care system and many children with disabilities are being loved by foster families who would willingly adopt them. Don’t presume you know everything.
Life imprisonment for illegal abortions in England. Just saying.
It’s none of your business. If you chose to leave Ireland maybe for better money abroad, rather than remain here after the crash and re-build the country then Tough. We’ll have people from all over the world trying to promote the baby-killing machine that is the abortion industry in our country. Your name doesn’t sound Irish either, so I wonder where you are really from? Just Butt out and enjoy your English life.
@Damian Gavin: See paragraph 2 – “I’m from Cork”. While you’re still brimming with xenophobia about an Irish woman caring about her own country and her fellow people, you may want to burn your Liverpool jersey. It’s where lots of Irish women go for abortions.
I do not like the seat belt comparison but I do agree with the articles ideas about abortion. I believe that if you need to have an abortion you should have the right to one. The details of those rights is what should be dealt with and not whether abortion should be accepted. People who cry foul about abortion do not have to live with the realities of having a child and bring them up. They talk and judge but as far as I am concerned do not help the parent/s with the child/children. If the money they spend on promoting the issue was spent on helping women with their problems then I think you would have less of a need/desire for abortions. I try to accept everyday that what I believe might be wrong, so in this case I believe that people who need/desire an abortion should be able to have one. The anti do not need to have one or have anything to do with it. Their choice.
@Con O Connor: Lots of people object to the child sex abuse trade, but can we take them seriously if they’re not going to take these children in after they’ve been saved?
Ireland has different laws to England. If the author really feels strongly about this why doesn’t she come home and campaign. The current legislation is a mess and needs to replaced by something reasonable and workable. Also where are the fathers in this conversation. Like the mother and baby institutions these women didn’t have immaculate conceptions.
Thank you for caring for pregnant women in Ireland,Cara. The 8th is very bad for wanted and unwanted pregnancies in Ireland! People often forget that 8th brings also obstetric violence! Forced introductions,forced medication and even forced c-sections!Also Irish women have later abortions than British women which is unhealthy!
Life imprisonment is the max sentence in Britain for illegal abortions.
Not known as human rights but reproduction rights… Make sense as unborn babies are human after all?
Exact reason why we should not give the vote to people abroad.
My understanding is that the 8th amendment means that any change to abortion law has to be voted on by the people. So if I vote Yes to repeal the 8th I am voting Yes to give up my right to vote on any future abortion legislation.
Fun fact: Apart from the obvious exception of rape cases, the vast, vast majority of unwanted pregnancies can be completelu avoided by exercising the right to not become pregnant in the first place.
Free abortion?
@Shawn O’Ceallaghan: The hoover or the long knife method?
My understanding is that the 8th amendment means that any change in the law on abortion has to be voted on by the people . If I vote to repeal the 8th I am voting to give up my right to have a vote on any changes in the law on abortion and handing it over to the legislators to decide what they want
have your say