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THERE HAVE BEEN widespread reports that ballot papers in the two referendums held yesterday caused confusion for some voters.
Voters were given two ballot papers when they went to their polling stations yesterday with green for the Court of Appeal referendum and white for the Seanad abolition vote.
Speaking on Morning Ireland, the Fine Gael chairman Charlie Flanagan, a TD for Laois Offaly, said that many constituents reported to him that they were confused by the papers.
On Morning Ireland, Flanagan said: “We’ve really got to go back to the drawing board.”
“There was an element of confusion and I think the element of confusion is borne out in the wording of the ballot paper, ” he said noting the inclusion of Irish on the paper was not helpful.
It is a legal requirement that the wording of the actual amendment to the Constitution that is being proposed must appear on the ballot paper:
Pic: Photocall Ireland
“We don’t really simplify things that are straight-forward,” Flanagan said calling for the establishment of a permanent Referendum Commission.
He also said that he would now be reconsidering his call for a ‘Constitution Day’ where several referendums would be held on the one day given the holding of two yesterday caused confusion.
On the same programme Sinn Féin senator David Cullinane said the government’s campaign had been “a shambles”.
Environment Minister Phil Hogan said this week he hopes to bring about the establishment of a permanent Referendum Commission at some point in this government’s term.
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Count me in, science over conspiracy any day.
@Hear me now: Evidence, I think…
@Hear me now: Mostly because the “alternative view” almost always comes from a 50 year old still living in their mothers and getting all their opinions formed by what they see on Facebook.
@Hear me now: try facts
@Hear me now: when its baseless.
@Richard Right: Richard, have a decco at Facebook, have a read of Twitter, I am a trainer, if I need my car fixed I go to a mechanic, if my roof leaks I go to a roofer, if I we have a pandemic I go to a scientist and then a doctor,
@Valentine Kane: try not labelling people because they don’t agree with you. Fully vaxed BTW. Just don’t think if a person ‘chooses’ not to take a ‘voluntary’ vaccine that they are a conspiracy theorist…try being a bit more open minded perhaps!
@Hear me now: There’s a big difference between respecting someones right to have an opinion and respecting the opinion. If someones opinion is categorically wrong and flies in the face of all available evidence, it does not deserve respect.
@Francis Devenney: you can say that they are categorically wrong, really!
@Mjhint: Science actively encourages dissent if it is evidence based and can withstand peer review. Every scientist from lab technicians to Nobel laureates would love to be the one to overturn an existing paradigm. It’s the very nature of science question.
@Richard Right: the usual “may nots” “doesn’t”. The vaccine reduces transmission of Delta by 40%. Take your medicine lad.
@Hear me now: Can you not see when something is categorically wrong?
@Richard Right: incorrect vaccines do stop transmission.
Firstly they stop about 50-75% of infections, and a person who isn’t infected can not spread.
Secondly if a breakthrough infection does occur, the length of time a transmissible viral load is present for is around a third of what it is in an unvaccinated person
@Valentine Kane: There are 1000s of scientists and doctors around the globe not being given airtime – that advise that continuous mass vaccinating into a pandemic will just keep squeezing the virus, forcing it to mutate quicker than it otherwise would have. And a lot of them are also saying you have no way of knowing the long term effects of these shots. It’s understandable that people with underlying conditions / vulnerable people might have little alternative. But to force those things indefinitely on healthy women, children, and men is wrong.
@Alpha Centauri: and what was their conclusion and alternative plan? Let nature takes its course and survival of the fittest?
@Richard Right: it’s not a silver bullet I wish it was but it does help the fight against the virus what is your alternative instead of bashing vaccines love to hear it
@Alpha Centauri: What proportion of the scientific community do they make up? 1% 2%? If I have 100 mechanics look at my car and 98 say “It’s a leak in the steering rack” and 1 says “It’s the quantum flux capacitor and” and 1 says “There’s nothing wrong, it’s a plot by big steering fluid to make money and control you, you only think the steering is heavy because you’ve been conditioned to believe THEM” Who do you think I should believe?
@Francis Devenney: Also mutation is random. The vast majority are neutral some are deleterious and a very small amount are advantageous in meeting an environmental pressure. They are not driven by environmental pressures.
@Martin Greene:Not true, The members of NPHET are
Dr Tony Holohan, chief medical officer at the Department of Health.
Prof Colm Bergin, infectious diseases consultant at St James’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine at Trinity College Dublin.
Paul Bolger, director of Department of Health resources division.
Dr Eibhlin Connolly, deputy chief medical officer at the Department of Health.
Tracey Conroy, assistant secretary in the acute hospitals division of the Department of Health.
Dr John Cuddihy, interim director of the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC).
Dr Cillian de Gascun, director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD.
Colm Desmond, assistant secretary for corporate legislation, mental health, drugs policy and food safety division in the Department of Health.
@Valentine Kane: good boy.
@Francis Devenney: clearly…it’s amazing you have all the definite answers here!
@Hear me now: because science is backed up by facts and research, alternative opinions are just opinions which as we know are like a$$ho1e5. Everybody has one
@Francis Devenney: not according to Kingston mills on the tonight show 3rd September. No immunologist and not 1 practicing scientists on NPHET team
@Richard Right: the vaccine was released pre delta variant… The booster is shown to really increase immunity against it and it shows now in Israel
@D.Storm: Just the other day you tweeted: “Typical lying jēw”. You can feck right off.
Does it stop transmission? If not, why would a young healthy person take it? Honest question
@Man incognito: if you need to ask that question at this stage you don’t deserve a booster..
@Man incognito: An “honest question” I’m sure you’ve asked on many platforms. You continue to ask it and claim it’s honest even though you’ve been given the answer a hundred times.
@Man incognito: It reduces death rates. Latvia has 66% vaccine rate & 266 deaths per million. We have 93% vaccine rate of eligible groups and 15 deaths per million. Nothing wrong with trying to reduce death rates further.
@Man incognito: Among the seriously ill needing ICU treatment, are some young people with no known underlying conditions that haven’t taken the vaccine. If you get a high viral load of Delta variant without any protection, it doesn’t matter how healthy you are, you can end up in serious bother. Thats why they should take it. That and to protect the health service from avoidable admissions to hospital.
@Michael Byrne: First time asking
@John Walsh: Of course. And its great that this is available for the vulnerable and for whoever wishes to get one. My thinking is that there might be a stigma against those who choose not to take it
@Man incognito: I streamed a funeral of a 45 year old yesterday. His heart gave out after a serious COVID infection.
We had a memorial 2 weeks ago to the 9 people in our Indian office that died, youngest was 22 (which completely shocked me).
I’m currently staying at my parents. They’ve not yet had their booster. I would prefer to ensure my actions don’t negatively impact them as we know that death from covid is higher is elderly and vaccinated versus young and not vaccinated.
But we also know that young and unvaccinated are a high proportion of ICU beds (they are mostly surviving though).
So yeah, I will judge people that CHOOSE not to be vaccinated.
@Man incognito: “Does it stop transmission?”
Yes.
“Conclusions In conjunction with safety reports, this study demonstrates the effectiveness of a third vaccine dose in both reducing transmission and severe disease and indicates the great potential of curtailing the Delta variant resurgence by administering booster shots.”
Refs:
Levine-Tiefenbrun, M., Yelin, I., et al. 2021. Viral Loads of Delta-Variant SARS-CoV2 Breakthrough Infections Following Vaccination and Booster with the BNT162b2 Vaccine, https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.08.29.21262798.
@David Jordan: to play devil’s advocate. It’s great to provide a paper of a study that shows reduced viral loads yet there is a real life, real world test ongoing in Gibraltar with 100% of the populace being double jabbed and a sizable portion being boostered. Transmission rates are pretty high there(death rates are not great showing the effectiveness on that side)…I am not anti vax by any stretch, I’ve both shots alongside already having covid at the start of the year, However I don’t buy the reducing transmission piece all the same.
@Peazel: The infection rate is now decreasing in Gibraltar due to the booster rollout, nearly half the population given boosters in 5 weeks, you’ll soon see infection rates fall to zero when boosters reach ~80% of the population.
https://www.google.com/search?channel=crow5&client=firefox-b-d&q=gibraltar+covid
@Peazel: (death rates are not great showing the effectiveness on that side)
I think you’re watching bit too much of Dr. John Campbell, I found his recent Gibraltar update a bit too pessimistic. I posted this, buried deep in the comments all lonely and not upvoted:
Vaccine Fatality Rate 0.15% v’s No Vaccines Fatality Rate 2.79% (Ratio 18.6; 2,645 infections and 4 deaths v’s 3,159 infection and 88 deaths). I would not call this a failure.
@David Jordan: sorry I wrote that incorrectly. I mean to say death rates are not too high which shows the effectiveness of the vaccine against death as opposed to my point of the effectiveness around transmission. I also caught Campbells video bit I took that he also agrees that death rates are not as high as previous waves when the vaccination rate was low. However, on your point about transmission, I hope you are correct and we see a drop. However, couldn’t a drop in transmission also be attributed to the population being exposed to covid naturally (even if vaccinated)?
@David Jordan: 2.79% is really really high. That would have killed 220M world wide in the absence of a vaccine.
@Man incognito: there is and should be a stigma against those who can get vaccinated but don’t.
And so the merry go round starts turning again. Now it will be very mild vaccine immunity for about 6 months; followed by the discriminatory vaccine passports being upgraded to a 3 shot requirement when most of the country gets their 3rd jab; then followed by another big spike of cases next winter. And so on, and so on; the Big Pharma money machine keeps on churning. Then rinse and repeat. Start again! When are we going to wake up in this country, and smell the coffee?
@Liam Happe: Do you also think the flu vaccine which requires annual boosters is part of that? Nothing new with vaccines requiring boosters, that tends to be the way they actually work.
@Heather Knowles: Think the difference there is “annual” boosters for flu, not getting shots every 3-4 months.
@Andy Dunn: The booster shot is expected to last for 9 to 10 months and possibly longer, this is antibody immunity.
Also, the decline in antibodies, see after 3-4 month after initial vaccination only affects immunity to infection, CD4+ Killer T Cells and Memory B cells last much longer and protect against severe illness.
Some experts disagree with giving boosters to everyone, they point out that most people (except the elderly and immunocompromised) are still protected by durable long-lasting immune system that prevents severe symptoms.
“By analyzing the antibody levels, researchers have concluded that the third shot could be effective for 9 – 10 months, or even longer, the researchers predicted.”
@Heather Knowles: if you choose not to get the flu jab you can still lead a normal life…
@Liam Happe: Hard to smell the coffee when you’ve already drank the Kool-Aid, like you’ve done yourself Liam.
@Liam Happe: can’t smell the coffee when you have Covid. Seriously though, this is an unprecedented viral pandemic. The future is unknown so everybody doing the best they can. The jabs have reduced deaths, there nay be more required as this is unprecedented.
Yes big pharma making ridiculous amounts of money is crazy and that will have to change. There will be laws against patents for solutions to pandemics. BUT it’s early days and we need to work on vaccines.
@Liam Happe: can’t smell the coffee when you have Covid. Seriously though, this is an unprecedented viral pandemic. The future is unknown so everybody doing the best they can. The jabs have reduced deaths, there may be more required as this is unprecedented.
Yes big pharma making ridiculous amounts of money is crazy and that will have to change. There will be laws against patents for solutions to pandemics. BUT it’s early days and we need to work on vaccines.
@Liam Happe: what is your alternative ?
Please don’t say “Learn to live with it” , that means nothing
@David Jordan: We were also told Pfizer vaccine would be effective for up to 9 months. Look how that worked out.
@Karen Ní Dhochartaigh: there is zero relationship between covid and flu…. They are not the same…. Covid kills u by totally destroying your lungs
where do these jabs end? get vaxed, few months later booster, few months after another booster and so on so forth. recommended for all over 16.
@Macca1986: Waiting in line outside Croke Park yesterday in freezing cold for nearly 3 hrs with an appointment to get a booster jab is madness. HSE should get their act together it was a disgrace. No social distancing either a magnet for a virus infection hundreds of people on top of each other.
@Joe Johnson: isn’t it up to the individual to make sure they are socially distant though? Even if there were no markings people could have been proactive and stood apart.
@Sam Harms: It was freezing for 3 hours and as soon as people got under the cover of the stand they were penned in together like sheep for the last hour. Nothing they could do. Just as well it wasn’t raining.
@Macca1986: influenza vaccines are yearly, what’s the issue if same will apply for Covid vaccines?
@Stephen Kearon: trying to push them on all individuals is the issue plus at moment it’s even few months not yearly. vast majority of young people don’t take the flu jab but they’re not stopped from partaking in outlets of society.
@Macca1986: they reckon 9-10 months with this booster. Hopefully that will stretch to annual. Flu and Covid are different diseases so no comparison.
@GrumpyAulFella: exactly but you still shouldn’t be pushing a vaccine on everybody to partake in society. “they reckon” you said. nobody knows what’s around the corner.
@Macca1986: not sure what the alternative is to everybody not protecting themselves and others with this thing.
@GrumpyAulFella: get on with life and live it. the day is gone where you’re thinking of others in everything u do. many now will get up each day and do what they want to do and whatever makes them happy.
And an opt out for those with hybrid immunity?
Oh wait we don’t actually follow the science we just pretend to.
I’m good, thanks.
Folks lining up for shot#3. At what point will people say hang on a second do you think?
@Colum Cusack: it will be one a year eventually but there’ll be improvements next year with oral medication also so the whole process should become simpler. Science never stops.
@Colum Cusack: no different from a yearly flu or pneumonia jab or from any other medication one needs to take regularly to stay healthy. If 6 montly or annual boosters are needed to avoid Covid Roulette so be it.
What about the 50s. Looks like we are forgotten!
@Maura: I think 50s were already included in the group for the booster. Now the recommendation has been extended to other ages groups.
May as well be injecting us with water if this south African variant is suppose to be as bad as it is
@James: The Booster shot is expected to increase immunity to variants, including the new SA variant. Te booster mimics super immunity, seen in people vaccinated months after an infection.
The extended, many month gap, between doses makes the immune system think the following:
“Oh s****t, this virus is not going away, it’s feckin seasonal now, better make long-lasting CD4+ Killer T and Memory B Cells because I’ll be dealing with this next year. It will probably mutate too, so make immune cells that can identify variants.”
A one off infection (or vaccination) generates a temporary immunity, the immune system fights if off and relaxes. But a repeated exposure, many months apart, makes the immune system realise the virus is seasonal, it’s not going away. So it then prepares a long term plan of attack. The long term immune system kicks in. The immune system is also a nerd.
“A team co-led by Andrés Finzi, a virologist at the University of Montreal, Canada, found that people who received this regimen had SARS-CoV-2 antibody levels similar to those in people with hybrid immunity[10]. These antibodies could neutralize a swathe of SARS-CoV-2 variants — as well as the virus behind the 2002–04 SARS epidemic.”
Callaway, E., 2021. COVID super-immunity: one of the pandemic’s great puzzles. Nature, 598(7881), pp.393-394.
@David Jordan: Thanks for all your efforts today to fight all the people spreading disinformation and “Just Asking Questions”. The Journal should really be policing these better and deleting some, but I suspect that it is not in their profit incentive to do so.
“If a person has had laboratory confirmed Covid-19 infection after completing their primary vaccine course, the booster should be delayed for at least six months after they were diagnosed” …………………..why?
@John Egan: because they have a good level of immunity after actually having had the virus, immunity that lasts around 6 months…. How do people not understand these things yet, it’s been almost two years.
@John Egan: natural immunity during that period I assume?
@Hairy Teeth: Like understanding that natural attained immunity has been proven to be far much stronger and lasting barrier than the vaccines? Was there a six-month warning for the initial vaccine? No.
Natural immunity plus your two dose regimen have been shown to infer long long lasting immunity with regards to both Memory B and Killer T cells alongside high levels and even increasing levels of antibodies.
The government are either too busy running around like headless chickens to create a bespoke policy regarding the sizable minority of folks in this bracket or at worst are acting carelessly with our money in buying more vaccine doses than needed for this magic third shot.
@Peazel: how many vaccine doses are needed? Is it possible to have too many as recoverers slip out of natural immunity every day?
Get ready to feel like shi#e for 48 hours
Not 100% correct: “no-one in these newly approved age cohorts has yet reached the recommended gap since the second dose of a two-dose vaccine”
For those who were deemed higher risk and got vaxxed earlier than their cohort initially, but are not quite as unwell/at risk now (thankfully), are already 6 months past…
They should just invite for a third vax based on 6 months going forward, they have everyone details on file so they do know when people were vaccinated…
It’s been 5 months and still no booster notification…
@Jane Alford: Same, six months ago and nary a text yet.
Why can’t we comment on Germany?
The health minister has.
thanks China
Here we go again ,68 and still waiting for booster ,m
Moooore jabs mooooooore.
What about the 50-59 year olds? Many had the Jansen vaccine
@Helena Flynn: those who had the J&J vaccine will be eligible for the booster after 3 months
@Stephen Kearon: had my j&j in july. not heard anything yet.
@Helena Flynn: They haven’t done the over 60’s yet.
Then why are Chemists not giving booster again slow off the Mark by those not giving go ahead.
Also my GP still only doing over 60s ..
@James Johnson: Some chemists are giving vaccine, mine booked for tomorrow.
wheres the 50 to 59 booster who mostly got one shot vaccine? or did I miss that ?
That headline is confusing, did pregnant women not get jabbed already..?
They haven’t started on the 50s yet have they?
Boost me up Skotty
Some pharmacies are giving vaccines, mine booked for tomorrow.
That headline is confusing, did pregnant women not get jabbed already?
Can someone tell me how much vaccine we have in storage since winding down a few months ago and the deliveries since then?
have your say