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A MEETING OF a rural landowners’ group last night attracted as many as 3,000 attendees as the issue of gangland crime in rural areas begins to take centre stage.
The group Save Our Local Community, organised by local Two-Mile Borris farmer John Tully, met at the Anner Hotel in Thurles, Co Tipperary in the hope of drawing national attention to the lack of Garda resources in rural areas.
In attendance were a number of local TDs and senior gardaí, including Minister for the Environment Alan Kelly, although they were urged to keep their counsel for the duration of the meeting.
Speaking on Today with Seán O’Rourke on RTE radio this morning Tully said that the way to deal with urban gangs exploiting barely-policed rural areas is an increase in resources.
The issue of rural policing has come to the fore lately with the conviction of seven Dublin-based men for attacking and robbing the Corcoran family in Co Tipperary, who were subjected to a harrowing ordeal.
“There’s some who’ll be sleeping with shotguns and the like, but that’s not the way to deal with it,” said Tully.
The way to deal with it is to change the law, and let the gardaí deal with it; we don’t shoot people or deal with crime.
With Tully on the programme were two local dairy farmers, Barry O’Gorman and Conor Molony, whose farms have been burgled five times between them over the last five years.
Molony spoke of not previously being able to identify with the victims of crime until it happened to him personally.
“There’s a sense of paranoia and fear that comes with it. You’re walking into your dairy and you’re wondering ‘who will I meet?’,” he said.
O’Gorman said that the “government has the power” to fix the problem, and that something has to be done with the punishments handed down to repeat criminals.
They get a €100 fine and they don’t pay it, so I say put tags on them, and cut their social welfare.
We need more gardaí on the beat, more cars, more presence on rural roads.
Tully said he’s delighted that people from so many other counties, not just Tipperary locals, attended last night’s meeting.
“I never envisaged a crowd like we had last night, they say 1,500 were in attendance but I think it could have been twice that,” he said.
We had people from Mayo, from Meath, from Louth, from Kerry, and we’re going to try and spread this initiative now.
Asked whether the issue of rural crime is a political one, Tully replied “I wouldn’t tolerate what’s going on in politics”.
This has been an issue for four years, well now we’re not going to take it any more.
We want an increase in Garda resources, not people jumping on the bandwagon because there’s an election.
“People are no longer going to sit back and accept this, they’ve taken on the wrong group,” Tully added.
Excellent initiative from Mr Tully,Bravo Sir. Great points and will be supported by all right thinking rural people.indeed many issues are relevant across the rural/urban divide.
Not just rural people, but all the people. The cut backs to Garda are adversely affecting all members of Irish society, including the Garda themselves.
I agree with him that cutting social welfare is one way to go. But we (department of SP) already have the power to force them out to work. Why not use it?
Not true Paul, it’s been a real boon for Dubliners heading down the motorway and filling up their boot.
Rochelle – what a stupid comment, houses in Dublin are being burgled on a daily basis too and some of those may even be committed by people from outside of the pale. It may shock you to know, but many of us Dublin dwellers don’t want what is In your boot and certainly would not steal it. Now any more sweeping statements or should I get you some lemon to go with you bitter!
Dublin is the scourge of Ireland and all decent Irish people (ie Rural dwellers)
Except our taxes, they enjoy our taxes.
Brainless idiot
Well done Mr Tully please see it through and can I ask all people living in rural areas to support this initiative. Do nt leave it to the farmers give them support.
I am delighted that country people and farmers are demanding a resolution to the crime wave that is out of control -in both urban and rural areas.
The IFA is a powerful lobby group and can influence government policy.
Those of us who live in the towns and cities, have endured this problem for a long time.
We have zero influence,
Best of luck to the farming organizations in their crusade.
If they succeed in getting new prisons built and proper sentences handed down for serial burglars they will be helping all our citizens.
I suggest that ye ask the government to make it easier for people to purchase firearms.
There are few burglaries in those states in America where most householders have one or more firearms at their disposal, an punitive terms of imprisonment for burglars who are caught.
Tick tock another Padraig Nally incident is going to happen…..
There are 6 or so criminal gangs doing most of this according to the guards When they are out on bail they should be electronically tagged Also their family social welfare should be given to their victims when they are in jail
I was thinking the exact same thing. Only this time the people defending themselves won’t have to rely on a jury willfully (and heroically) ignoring a judges instruction to convict. Since that time the castle doctrine has become law in Ireland. You may use lethal force to defend your home, on two conditions:
1. That you genuinely thought your life, or the lives of your family, were in imminent danger of death
2. That a ‘reasonable person’ in your place, would have done the same thing.
The only thing that worries me is untrained civilians going up with firrearms against armed gangs..it should not have to come to that.
I totally agree John
Their families social welfare? As in their kids child benefit shouldn’t be given to the kids guardians anymore? What would that do?
Houses in rural and urban areas are been burgled time for this or the next government to take action reopen Garda stations and put more Garda on the beat.
This government certainly got it wrong with their current policy.
Add right 2 arms to constution. Enough already.
Right 2 defend one’s property should be enshrined in constution. Esp. Now since so few Guards around. Shame on Judges who Sentence those who are purposely attacked.
Ssh… you’ll wake Frances….
Another saving to pay back gamblers debt. Not a rural Garda left. Well done FG/LAB.. Angela at least will be happy with you. ..
Any chance the next government will actually appoint a Minister for Justice?
Shoot a couple of the fcukers. Not to kill, mind, just injure them. The risk/reward equation will suddenly change radically
Where is SF and the IRA when you need them
We still don’t use already available technology enough. And private policing will be here soon too I would think. A couple of quid a week from those 3,000 people would pay for their own private police force and should also be considered. Plenty of ex army and ex cops would be well suited to taking on that job.
Now your talking George. Padraig Nally’s the man. By your thumbs up shows that people are in favour of the right to have a gun to protect their families.
The same type of meeting is happening in my parents locality which is getting ravaged by a certain group that prefer to live in caravans and not be part of normal society. There has been numerous break ins over the past few years. The problem is people are scared of these guys and not reporting them but on the other hand the Gardai are so stretched that even if it is reported they can’t respond in time to catch anyone. The thieves are getting more brazen as time goes on as they know they won’t be caught and are now and are robbing in broad daylight and they don’t care who see them. It getting to such a tipping point in the locality that my dad reckons we are only weeks away from another “Patrick Nally” incident. There has been a great response from some TDS has been fantastic except for the government ones who didn’t show up or even send a representative. Rural crime is a direct result of this government closing local Garda stations “trying to save money” which has been proven that the amount they saved is minuscule in the grand scheme of things. The Gardai should be commended for their efforts but they are way over stretched.
Rural crime has nothing to do with closure of Garda stations.
Governments cannot find the money to build and staff prisons.
It is way down on their list of pork barrel politics priorities.
Farmers may have to forego some of their entitlements if they want to live secure in their homes.
Money does not fall from the skies or grow on trees.
My advice to those who live county……buy a gun for protection. This will make gangs to think again before they carry out the foolish crime spree.
Or make the gangs think they better carry guns to carry out a robbery. Vicious circle to get into, that will more than likely lead to death rather than just a robbery.
these gangs already are armed, it’s time the gardai are armed too
A guy near where I live had a gun, they came terrorized his family and held them captive for hours, in order to steal his gun.
these gangs are already armed, it’s time the gardai were armed too
@Carmo. excellent a very important point. Most criminals in ireland dont carry guns.why? they dont need to. I hope it stays that way. Arming everyone is just going to escalate shootings and killings and at the end of the day, its always the innocents that get hurts. Has what’s gone on in the US in the last few weeks not proved that?
@ Cillian, The serious criminals who are already armed are being monitored constantly by armed Gardai so that already happening. Its the Courts who are letting the Gardai down.
i’m not saying everyone should be armed just the gardai and if you believe that criminals in ireland aren’t armed you’re either not from the country or you have your head in the sand. just look at roscrea in tipperary there was a serious drug gang problem there recently and the gardai weren’t able to tackle it because the these groups were armed so the armed support units got stationed there and the area has quieted down now.
@gerryhealy thats true but the armed gardai shouldn’t have to police these groups all gardai should have the ability to take on these groups
@Cillian, I have to disagree. You said yourself that when armed response units (ERU), embedded themselves in Tipp, the problem went away. Proves we have an adequate response for very serious criminals.
Dont forget, the Gardai got through the Troubles without the need to be armed at local level. I think it would be culturally unacceptable to arm ordinary Gardai.
Also, people seem to forget that all Detectives are armed and that there are more armed Gardai on duty than people would think.
@gerryhealy, yes but the problem with moving the armed response units to these areas is that the gangs simply move to another area and continue their operations, the armed gardai are moved to these areas and it becomes a game of whack-a-mole where the gardai are constantly chasing these criminals. The difference between the troubles and now is that the army were involved in policing an army which was armed at all times.
As for the detectives being armed there have never been so few guns in the force so that cancels it out
@carmo vanderval, that’s an all to familiar occurrence now and the gardai couldn’t stop if they tried unfortunately
@cillian, the Army were not involved in policing during the troubles. They were used as an aid to civil power, for escorting cash or commercial explosives. Rarely where they used except for the likes of the tragic events in Ballinamore where a Guard and a soldier where killed, or when the so caleled Border Fox was on the run, but they were extraordinary circumstances
@gerryhealy, the army was involved in border protection and as armed protetion at certain checkpoints which is where the gangs at the time operated
Great to see our rural cousins standing up and voicing my their anger. We are insulated to a certain extent in the city but people living on farms or rural dwellings don’t have that luxury. Even a visit to the local pub involves leaving the home empty.
we now have cctv, two dobermans and a couple of shotguns….nothing more dangerous than a p#ssed off in control of two dobermans and a shoguns with parents in their 80′s to protect.
p#ssed off woman I meant to say!
Listening to a poor old lady this morning who sleeps with a shotgun since being robbed after her husband died just really infuriates me that people don’t feel safe in their own homes and that very little is deterring the low life’s.
Seems arming the victims rather than the Gardai seems to be the only possible deterrent since the legal system is failing.
Was at a talk in North Kerry a few weeks ago and Garda were recommending farmers get a UV pen and write their details on their machinery, that way if the property is recovered it can be returned to its owner. These pens can be gotten from a local Garda station too! Not a total deterrent but still something cheap that any one can do. Even in the event that thieves are going around with UV lamps it is a deterrent!
They also advised putting up private property signs on all entrances, then if in the event someone is caught stealing on the farm/property they can be held (not by gun point obviously, with reasonable force) until the Garda are contacted and arrive. This kind of information should be available to everyone in rural areas.
the shut down the garda stations and saved just 500,000 . Says it all really .
In America the 2nd amendment would take care of this problem
Hear hear. I don’t see why people secluded in rural areas with out an operational Garda station for miles should not be allowed to defend themselves. They’re sitting ducks.
@ Pronnsias. Keep you gun culture crap to yourself. In spite of the serious crime being carried out by a small cohort of criminals, Ireland is still a relatively safe place.
Mind you, your avatar of one of the worlds worst dictators probably sums up your psychological state.
Yeah, because there’s no crime in America. Idiots.
As my wife and i are “getting on ” and live in a rural area ,Its not just roaming gangs coming down the N7 we have to deal with .The local thugs who know that unless they are caught red handed most of their robberies will be blamed on the motor gangs ,,Some of our “neighbors ” are camped in a illegal halting site ,for months with their horses wandering roads and gates been open to allow them access to grass ,Not to nice to go out into your front lawn to find 24 horses in it .So gates are locked ,security lights on ,alarm on 24 hours a day .german shepherd on patrol .I have certain self defense items close at hand ..To be honest i am not worried about breaking the law defending my wife myself or my home.You come into my home to rob be prepared to suffer the consequences ,I would rather be judged by the 12 that be carried into church by the 6 ,,
Oh Jaysus. I can see this ending badly, somewhere down the line.
Wow Bob was that your observation on rural Ireland while you were driving one of the main motorways. Stick to the topic. And yes there are still houses like the one in the picture, not everyone is a big farmer, with big houses.
with the police tied up with evictions and baby sitting water workers at what cost to rural policing
Bob you work 12 + hours a day for 7 days, every week with little time off and no sick days maybe you could have a big house too. Those houses see hard earned. Again stick to the topic nobody wants to here your views on rural people and their lifestyle.
I work 16 hours plus a day honey. The joys of running your own business. I never said the farmers don’t work hard silly!! I’ll say what I want on here if you don’t like it, tough. My opinion move on!!
Your right castrations would be more effective
Dozens of Gards protecting DOBs water metre installers, forty of them surrounding TDs cars at events, not one available to protect the people. It would seem if you do not have money or are part of this government you will not receive any assistance from the Gardai.
I didn’t see many farm houses down the country that looked like the one above. All the thousands of pounds/euros in subsidies they have received over the decades has given them nice homes dotted around the landscape. But they’re right, Ireland needs more police on the streets and not just in rural areas.
two dobermans who would probably love a side of bob but they’d probably spit you out due to the sourness.
There’s quite a few houses around North Cork like the one in the picture….perhaps you should try to take note of the small houses that don’t catch your eye so easily as the big houses when you’re on your Sunday drive.
Do I come across as bitter because I mentioned the thousands of free handouts the farmers get? Good for them, at least they invested the money in a family home. Even if it blights the landscape with hundreds of homes dotted all over the place.
Bob , if you know anything about farmers and rural Ireland you would know that most of the money goes into machinery and sheds and running of the land , they don’t have the big fancy homes that you talk about . they live quite modestly actually , homes are not important to them , the land and the farm is more important to them .
what you’re seeing is the people who have sold their houses elsewhere and bought some land and built their own big house , certainly not farmers !
Totally agree with you. Good big Doberman or German Shepard. Some thief climbed into our back garden one night. I spotted him hiding in corner by the tree and wall. Obviously checking out the house and hadn’t been heard by our Doberman. However when I knocked on window our Doberman darted from our shed and turned directly where the guy was hiding. He was already climbing the wall like a scared cat and dusty our beautiful Doberman on his heels. Almost had him to,lucky for him he got over that wall. Unfortunately dusty didn’t get a hold of him that I could see anyway. I always hope he got a chunk out of his heel. I miss my Dusty great pet and guard dog would gaurd me with his life since I was 8 years old. Now have a trip colour collie a sweet heart. But climb on my wall come into my house uninvited and its dinner time. He scared the sh*t out of 3 lads climbing along our wall one day. He wasn’t even in back garden near them. The sight of him bashing off the glass in the doors was enough to freeze one of them to the wall and ask if he could pass.
we’ve learned that a certain roaming group don’t like Dobies at all and our two don’t much care for them either, great dogs and only show their true nature when a sc#mbag comes within range. wouldn’t be without them. great comfort to my elderly parents as they can keep them in the house with them at night.
Great common sense ideas from the people concerned im sure this will be echoed across the rural and suburban areas. But alas common sense and FG / Labour dont go together. I was a bit annoyed with the fiddler Lowry being asked for his input.
Close rural Guarda stations and use the money saved to pay for Eircodes……… WTF????
That comment was riddled with mistakes, apologies
great idea and fair play to them. hope it gains momentum and brings about a change for the better.
A national database of the registration number of certain motor vehicle, maintained in real time, with automatic number plate recognition, and an alert system to wardens in rural areas could be highly effective.
It is also possible to devise algorithms which can identify anomalies and trends, which indicate a higher risk of the vehicles being driven by offenders and future offenders. I appreciate that this is a bit “big brother” but the really violent offenders come from quite a narrow demographic and generally have a record of offences.
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have your say