Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
'Dealing with the legal system was worse than the rape': Victims of male violence demand change
Judge orders psychiatric report be carried out on Stoneybatter knife attack accused
Viewers call for change in Dancing with the Stars voting format after Kevin Dundon remains on show
recall debate
"We must take action"... Senators call for Ireland to strengthen stance on Gaza
Senators hit out at Minister Charlie Flanagan over Ireland’s UN vote abstention this afternoon, as politicians came back from their summer breaks to address the spiraling crisis.
THERE WERE IMPASSIONED speeches from – amongst others – Independent David Norris and Labour’s John Whelan this afternoon, as senators returned to Leinster House to debate the Gaza conflict.
A number of members also called for Ireland to expel Israeli ambassador Boaz Modai from the country as the upper house held a lengthy discussion on the topic.
The Seanad was recalled from its summer break after pressure from senators on both the government and opposition sides, with this afternoon’s session beginning shortly after 2pm.
The ongoing crisis in Ukraine was also on the agenda — but most members spent the majority of their speaking time addressing the spiraling crisis in the Middle East.
It was confirmed today that some 425,000 people – around a quarter of the population of Gaza – have been displaced since the Israeli action began on 8 July.
Over 1,400 Palestinians – mostly civilians – have been killed since the launch of ‘Operation Protective Edge’ over three weeks ago. Some 58 Israelis have also been killed – 56 of whom were soldiers.
Ireland’s stance
Foreign Affairs Minister Charlie Flanagan began the debate, by setting out Ireland’s position on the conflict.
The recently appointed Minister said he fully shared “the horror and revulsion of Senators and very many of our citizens” at “the horrendous scenes we have witnessed since the start of the Israeli military operation”.
In a carefully-worded speech, Flanagan said “the horror has not been confined just to the Palestinian side” .
He said that, in addition to the deaths on the Israeli side, “millions of Israelis have been forced to seek shelter on a daily basis from the indiscriminate firing of rockets”.
Foreign Affairs Minister Charlie Flanagan
Flanagan said that the Government had been “quite categorical” in condemning attacks by both sides.
Criticism
The Fine Gael politician has come in for criticism in the last few weeks over the Government’s stance on the conflict, including from his own backbenchers.
Addressing that controversy once again today, Flanagan expanded on the Government’s position, saying…
The decision to abstain was a collective EU decision, only taken after prolonged deliberations.
“One day after the adoption of important EU conclusions on the peace process, it would have sent a very negative signal and undoubtedly weakened EU leverage if we could not agree on a common response to the resolution.
Flanagan stressed that:
The cold reality also is that, if a common abstention had not been agreed, there was a very high likelihood of a number of our EU partners voting against the Resolution, thereby reducing overall EU influence even further.
Senators stand for the pre-debate prayer.
Flanagan also detailed how he had spoken “at length” with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon about the crisis earlier this week.
“I condemned the appalling attacks which we have seen on UN and civilian facilities in Gaza and we agreed that both sides have to cease violating international law.
The Secretary General was also fulsome in his praise of the Irish Government’s humanitarian efforts to date.
The Minister – who was interrupted several times by Norris in the course of his speech - also addressed the ongoing situation in Ukraine. He repeated calls for a full investigation into the MH17 crash, and stressed that there could be “no military solution to the situation”.
He said Ireland’s decision to abstain from last week’s UN vote had been “shameful, absolutely shameful” — and condemned US President Barack Obama “for his utter inaction” in bringing about a peaceful solution.
Senator David Norris.
Norris added that he had “no doubt” that the recent Israeli attacks on schools had been deliberate.
How could anybody claim that they didn’t know what they were doing. Israel’s policy is shoot first, and weep afterwards: ‘oh, did we hit children, what a terrible tragedy’.
“Nobody believes you anymore,” Norris said.
You’re doing this to exert pressure on Hamas – but I tell you this: you will not resolve this problem until, like we did in this country, you involve both of the participants.
Norris said that entire families had been “obliterated” and called for immediate lifting of the embargo on Gaza.
Advertisement
And, calling for Ambassador Modai to be expelled, observed:
He has his fingers in his ears all the time, and he just repeats slogans from Jerusalem.
Concluding, Norris said the United Nations should accept full responsibility for the welfare of the people of Gaza.
“If that means an international force going in, that’s fine,” he said, adding that the actions of the Israeli Government in recent weeks had amounted to ‘Nazism’.
Senator Averil Power.
‘Shocked’
Several senators drifted out the chamber as the debate passed the 90 minute mark, as Flanagan remained in the room to hear each member’s contribution.
From Fianna Fáil, Averil Power said she had been “shocked” at Ireland’s decision not to cast a vote in the UN last week.
As a country we have always prided ourselves in using our voice in international organisations like the UN to promote human rights and stand up for the oppressed.
“Last week Minister, we were shamefully silent,” she said, adding that Ireland had “hidden behind” the collective agreement of the EU.
Sanctions
Senator Sean Barrett, who is also an economics lecturer at TCD, highlighted the disparity in average income in Gaza and in Israel.
He said the armed actions “must cease” and, backing Norris’s call for the blockade on Gaza to be lifted, said that investment in the region could contribute to a lasting solution.
Later — addressing the Minister directly — Senator John Whelan of Labour called for the immediate imposition of sanctions on Israel.
He said Flanagan needed to engage in a “more robust” approach to the situation, and said the State shouldn’t take its lead on the issue from the UK Government.
Senator John Whelan.
Ireland shouldn’t be neutral in its position, Whelan implored, adding:
I’m certainly not neutral when it comes to the slaughter of women and children in schools, in hospitals and in UN shelters.
He said senators were asking for Ireland “to distinguish itself now”.
We must take action … We must take a position … Minister, we must initiate sanctions.
The Co. Laois senator said he believed the Israeli Defence Forces were “a law unto themselves, enacting war-crimes and slaughtering children”.
As the debate continued, Sinn Féin Senator Kathryn Reilly also backed calls for the ambassador to be “thrown out of Ireland” and said Ireland should support an arms embargo on Israel.
How many more dead babies and civilians will it take before we start to send a strong message to the Israeli Government that it cannot continue to kill civilians with impunity?
Pat O’Neill of FG.
Amongst the members who spoke in support of Israel’s right to defend itself against the actions of Hamas was Fine Gael’s Pat O’Neill.
The Kilkenny politician said that though the “world media” had depicted Israel as a terrorist nation “if you look back in history you’ll see what Hamas stands for”.
While urging that “every diplomatic solution” should be tried to end the violence, he said the Israeli Government had a right to respond to “years of rockets being fired indiscriminately at its citizens by a terrorist organisation”.
Minister Flanagan.
Conclusion
Minister Flanagan responded to a number of the claims raised by senators as he rose to address the house for a second time at the conclusion of the session.
On the issue of the UN vote, he stressed that, in abstaining, “Ireland didn’t oppose the resolution”.
He said the State had “made a very clear statement condemning civilian deaths and stating we believed international law had been breached, and saying we supported an investigation into all such breaches”.
Flanagan said there had been a “numbers of specific issues” with the language Ireland was being asked to back, and that that wasn’t “something we can wipe away with the stroke of a pen”.
He said that he wouldn’t be taking any action to expel the Israeli ambassador, telling the chamber “ambassadors exist, as we know, to allow clear channels of communication between governments — and are more necessary in bad times than in good”.
And on the issue of sanctions, he said that, as a small trading nation, the country could only consider sanctions as part of EU or UN measures.
The Minister said that Ireland was “too small” to effect change by itself — adding that he wasn’t sure how effective sanctions would be, considering the urgency of the situation.
The session ended shortly before 6.30pm — with senators now not due to return to their legislative work until mid-September.
There are also calls for the Dáil to return to discuss the crisis. Fianna Fáil Seanad Leader Senator Darragh O’Brien repeated his assertion today that Enda Kenny should ask TDs to come back early to debate the situation.
Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article.
Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.
Israel declares a four hour ceasefire. People think its safe to get some badly needed supplies. Two and a half hours into the so called ceasefire Israel bombs a market with huge casualties.
This is deliberate murder of innocent civilians and a war crime. Yesterday, they also shelled ambulances killing many people.
This is not war, it is slaughter. It is massacre and genocide.
If any other “nation” did this there would be immediate sanctions
Expel the Israeli ambassador !!
I have done several times. Nobody supports innocent deaths. Your rant against Israel conveniently forgot to mention the 27 rockets and in the interests of balance I felt it appropriate to mention it.
@ Charles….senator Morris knows the IDF is deliberately targeting the civilians…… because he was sitting in the cockpit of a plane , or tank . , oh! Wait!
Against the backdrop of the current Gaza conflict, several pro-regime Egyptian columnists have written about Hamas’ demands to open the Rafah crossing as a condition for a ceasefire, and claimed that this conflict was against Egypt more than it was against Israel. They said that getting the Rafah Crossing opened, with the aim of assuring Hamas’ continued control in Gaza, was the real reason for the current round of fighting, and that the fighting was unrelated to the Palestinian national struggle.
Charles – who was the ceasefire between? Because Hamas didn’t agree to a ceasefire.
So in effect Israel had a proposed 4 hour coffee break from murdering people, then awoke their soldiers from their siesta early when they heard that people thought they had time to get a few groceries in.
@ Charles well said, , I shall reiterate that condones the deaths of innocents civilians …
But remember there is only one body count Hamas is concerned about, that’s the death of 60 odd IDF soldiers, why else keep firing rockets into Israel.
They will at the end of this cycle of violence see this as a great victory By then they may have killed 100 soldiers. It is quite obvious to even the most anti Israel person that they dot care about their own (civilian) casualties.
Leaving aside rockets etc, that system of tunnels must have cost tens of millions of $ sometimes running up to 4 km into Israel , Even if it was used for air raid shelters you could understand it, they chose to waste thousands of tonnes of concrete on building them, where it is aledged that up to a hundred children have died in their construction.
Call me crazy Rh, if hamas had the best interests of their people at heart they’d have demanded or agreed to an extended humanitarian ceasefire days ago.
Remember the first attempt at a ceasefire in this conflict? Hamas is not looking for peace and never was.Egypt has no intention of amending the terms of its proposed ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shukri said Saturday. The Egyptian proposal, which was submitted to Israel Tuesday, stated that both sides must halt all attacks and only then negotiate the terms of a longer lasting truce. The proposal was accepted by Israel but rejected by Hamas. I believe that there is a bit of faction fighting going on in the Hamas camp between the 7 groups within that organisation and dealing with them must be difficult to say the least.
Charles, p*ss off. You horrid troll. You are an affront to humanity. Fognostical, there’s not even words to describe how offensive I find you. You are a cretin. Go back to underneath your rock. I wouldn’t even argue with you two anymore. You are disgusting humans.
And you too Taxi Bill. The three of you should get a house together. Although your logic would be to turn up at someone else’s house and tell them that your family lived there 2,000 years ago according to some book, so you’re going to take their house and bomb their neighbours. You people are vomit.
Your an idiot Charles, all you deserve is name calling. People have debated with you but you just don’t get it. Your a mug mate. “Go back to primary school”. Good one. Now head off on your sick way, defending the murder of children, the slaughter of adults and the subjugation of an entire people, despite the mounting evidence to the contrary. You are clearly a nasty piece of work. I sincerely hope you have no friends apart from the virtual fools here that support you’re warped view of the world. I am sick of Israel, and I am sick of you. You piece of absolute filth.
@stephen. Undoubtedly, but seeing the cycle of violence I’d have to examine how realistic my goals were ( elimination of israel) On this basis I’d likely try to outmanoeuvre the israelis and say fine you be israel, we’ll be Palestine and leverage the publicity this current conflict is receiving to guarantee future peace. Peace is their ultimate goal isn’t it?
Yeah, and leave the liars supporting the IDF Rory. LIke from Charles: “I’d have to examine how realistic my goals were ( elimination of israel) ” Hamas no longer call for the removal of Israel, and their charter has not been in use since 2006. More smoke and mirrors from the Israeli bunch. These people are renowned on The Journal for their trolling. When they don’t troll people comment about them, asking how long before they turn up with their vile views. Charles is the smartest, Taxi Bill is a thick and Fog is not Irish, most likely Israeli.
Yep Charles. And I will continue, you cretin. You can say go away, but unless you bomb me like your masters do to innocents I’ll still be here. I bet you wish you could, just kill those that don’t fall into your ideological standpoint.
So Charles , it’s all right so, for the Israeli’s to murder small kids so , because Hamas fired some small rockets that were intercepted by them ?
Is there a particular reason that these young innocent children & UN Workers are a threat to Israel ?
Please answer ? You appear to be the Resident Spokesperson on behalf of The Israeli Government, to The Journal.ie , in these matters !
Either Charles is ignoring the facts out the, he is willfully ignorant or he is just a moron. I don’t believe he is a moron, so I’m taking the middle option. The facts are there but he keeps ignoring them, such as any efforts at ceasefire fail to contact Hamas or ignore the position of Hamas. Why would Hamas agree to a ceasefire that puts them in the very same position, a country under blockade by a foreign power. Save the propaganda Charles, many Journal readers are educated on these matters.
Norris should know better. As a gay man, if lived in Gaza and Hamas got wind, that he was Homsexual, he would be getting a bullet to the back of the head, and dragged through the streets on the back of a motorbike. Norris’s sexuality is an affront to Allah.
The reason behind this latest conflict has damn all to with egypt it has to do with the palestinian unity government and their unilateral push to be recognised as a state in the un. Netanyahu has said after the start of the round up of palestinians in the west bank during the investigation of the murders of the 3 israeli teens that israel would no way hand over security of the west bank and jordanian border to the palestinians or any other entity not for any agreement . Therefore putting an end during his tenure to any hope of a 2 state solution.
Charles they have put forward the details of one year peace deal which includes a complete cessation of all military operations which has been agreed to by plo fatah and islamic jihad as long as israel stop the bombardment ,open the border crossing and ease the blockade, during which time negotiations can take place for a more permanent peace. Israel have so far said no
To be honest, if he had offered military training, counter intelligence and guerilla warfare workshops, I’d be banging down his door – trying to get in, you understand!
A few points of fact that seem to be misunderstood or ignored.
Israel not Hamas initiated the current round of violence on the pretext of the murder of the settler teenagers. Israeli police have said they do not believe Hamas murdered the teenager. Either way the Israeli government had no interest in due process and ceased the opportunity to commence aerial assaults in the West Bank (the part of the occupied territories where civilians aren’t currently being massacred).
Secondly, Gaza tunnels into Egypt and Israel have existed for decades (well before Hamas ever existed). This has been well documented and it is known that ten of millions of dollars of goods pass through these tunnels every year to provide Palestinians with commodities like food and medical supplies that they cannot acquire due to Israels blockade. At one time it was claimed that there were 1200 tunnels between Gaza and Egypt.
Claims by Israel and its cheerleaders that these tunnels are a recent discovery and part of Hamas’s infrastructure are inaccurate- bordering on deluded.
Why is it that it’s almost taken as a given that if one side is bad the other must be good? If you are for Hamas then you’re against Israel and vice versa. From what I’ve seen there are in fact two sets of black hats in this tragedy namely the government and armed forces of Israel and Hamas. The good guys are the victims, Palestinian and Israeli of the bombs, bullets, rockets, missiles and shells that these two sides throw at each other with the savage abandon of small children.
Another thing that strikes me is how anyone who is against the State of Israel is accused of being an anti-semite. An anti-semite is against people of the Jewish faith and not against a state. One can be against the actions of the IDF and the Israeli government and love the jewish faith, one can be against them and be a jew even.
If it is valid to accuse those opposing Israel as being anti-semite then one could equally accuse Israel of being an apartheid state regarding its attitude towards Palestinians. Apartheid comes from Afrikaans and means “the state of being seperate” (roughly translated). Is this not the policy of the Israeli government? Do they not, time and again demonstrate their wish to be seperate from the Palestinians? Is this approach not institutionalised in their system?
Is it not then reasonable and just to suggest a boycott of Israel similar to that carried out against South Africa and for precisely for the same reasons?
The narrative has now changed from stopping Hamas rocket fire to destroying tunnels. Neither matter. It is simply designed to starve out Palestinians, terrify them and force them out of their country so it will be only for the Jewish. A disgusting state that deserves the isolation of North Korea, unless they dramatically change their tune. They should be the pariah of the world. We should also boycott the US, the number one aggressor on planet Earth. A rogue violent state that bullies the rest of the world, their exceptionalism is their penchant for violence.
But how many hit any kind of target…Israel has the facility to intercept incoming rockets, a facility that the Palestinians do not have…a situation fully exploited by Israel
fognostical…johnny no mates..really you should think about that as a new name, sad little fella . Uneducated lil w@nker…fcuk off back down under ur rock dickhe@d
Unfortunately both you Fognostical and Charles are wrong. You have ddecided to follow the israeli propaganda hook, line and sink. This reveals most unfortunately flaws within your moral character. To follow the party line of “it is all Hamas fault” shows no moral fortitude, nor ability to question the reality. David Norris is a giant of a man compared to you.
#
Maybe they will conduct an enquiry into the €3 billion missing from the EU aid donation? The Dutch are also concerned as to the whereabouts of around €250 million .
Why is Israel portrayed as the only democratic state in the Middle East when a significant proportion of the people living there cannot vote and are discriminated against. It is time for the apartheid state to end. Would apartheid South Africa be called a democracy?
Anyone who believes Israel is a democratic state is either a fool or a liar.
This is a country who prohibits mixed marriage between Jews and non-Jews and prohibits same-sex marriage. They injected Ethopian Jews with the birth control drug Depo Provera without their knowledge or consent, thus sterilising them. They segregate school children and have separate busing for Palestinians. In same instances they even have separate roads for Arabs and Jews.
That’s without mentioning the horrendous living conditions many Palestinians are forced to endure. All of this needs to stop but sadly our Western leaders are toothless and only care about their own PR. Witness Obama’s near silence and Cameron blaming Hamas for ‘starting it’. Playground stuff for people none of us should take seriously.
Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization but what doesn’t get mentioned is how Hamas came about in the first place. The organization was founded as a response to the oppression and subjugation of Palestinians by Isreal. Palestinians have been losing their homes, livelihoods, and even their lives due to Israeli expansion into Gaza and the West Bank that has gone on for decades. I don’t support or condone terrorism in any way, shape, or form, but I don’t know what I would do if I were ever facing the type of oppression that the Palestinians have faced for so many years.
“Of course they have segregation. They are afraid of suicide bombers”
And did you ever ask yourself why those suicide bombers exist in the first place? One fact you are either unaware of or deliberately ignoring is that Hamas was not founded until 1987, at which time the occupation was already 20 years old.
Israel is a democracy … it’s just a different democracy to us. In Ireland, we have laws against abortion and gay marriage that to other democracies make us seem backwards and non democratic. But Ireland is also a democracy isn’t it? Surely a democracy means ability to vote (and yes I acknowledge some people living in Israel can’t. Some people in Ireland can’t vote either of course), having a justice system that doesn’t include stoning, etc. You get my point I’m sure?
This article is interesting as a view of apartheid. It is a couple of years old but an interesting insight into the issues you have raised. The Guardian is notoriously Pro Palestine so it is a fair assessment of whether Israel is an apartheid state or not from a South African who has lived in both SA & Israel.
I’m aware they are a democracy if you judge it by their own terms. The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel calls Israel a Jewish state and so anyone can concede that Jews are fairly represented there.
I don’t care about semantics though, I’d rather focus on how anyone can promote and condone a country that has segregation running throughout its state, that has sterilised civilians without their knowledge or consent, that attacks UN facilities and that prohibits marriage between their people from marrying outside of their religion, thus keeping their people ‘pure’.
Leaving aside you trying to bring Muslims in to this with your stoning comment as well, I’d rather just focus on that point above.
The article says Israel is not an apartheid state, it should have said “Israel is not a South African style apartheid state.” The arguments presented in at are, at best, weak, ar worst spurious. Claiming that the state of Israel’s actions are not based on apartheid but security is an incredibly myopic exercise in semantics. The claim is, ironically enough, not new, similar arguments were heard in europe in the thirties and forties about another section of the population.
Because you’re anti Israeli and more concerned about scoring points than you are in the actual events. There are crimes being committed on both sides. Only difference is Hamas can’t get its rockets far enough. As for “here” pal, it’s not an anti Israeli sanctuary – far from it. Most here recognise war crimes on both sides. Israel’s disproportionate response is reprehensible. But it does NOT absolve Hamas…
Totally agree, Hamas is not innocent in all this. Why arnt Egypt opening the border to Gaza as well. Theres a lot more going on here than we are being told.
I ain’t your “pal” and frankly, I hold governments to a higher standard as should we all.
There are certainly wrongs being committed by both sides but the sustained murdering, including a sizeable number of children is beyond defending and I for one would like this little State of ours, which has a history of conflict, to say there has got to be a better way and the widespread bloodshed has to stop.
Didn’t Norris’s lover get locked up by an Israeli court for sexual offences against a minor? and didn’t Norris then write to request leniency from the Israeli court…conflict of interest anyone..
Senator Norris wasn’t too put out about any offences committed against children by his lover…but now he is all in a lather wanting to protect the children.
And maybe my comment could not be deleted as it only states facts.
Larry what has your question got to do with the article?
Remember the same Senator is held in high esteem in this country, Ireland is not America mud slinging has the opposite affect to what you would expect.
Joe of course charge both Hamas and Israel with war crimes
Hamas has murdered 3 civilians to date through targeting.
Israel has murdered in excess of 1000 civilians to date through targeting.
What can you expect from a government that arrests peace activists, colludes in torture, tacitly supports transports of weapons through Shannon airport and refuses to speak for the people of Ireland who are outraged of what is going on. Instead they bow to EU pressures. They are only governers for that construct, not representatives of the people. I have only one word : ‘spineless, empty suits’.
Bolivia has just declared Israel a terrorist state and renounced a visa exemption agreement with it. The president Evo Morales filed a request with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to prosecute Israel for crimes against humanity. The Irish government should do the same. Bolivia broke off diplomatic relations with Israel in 2009 over a previous military operation in Gaza. The Irish government should do it now.
Chile, El Salvador, Brazil and Peru recalled their ambassodors.
Shame on the ‘empty suits’.
I hope the Irish people will come out en masse on Saturday to express their outrage on the slaughter in Gaza and show everyone that the government does not speak for them. Let all see that ‘the emperor has no clothes’.
There will be events in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Ennis, Nenagh and Bundoran. Details can be found on the Irish Palestinian solidarity campaign website.
So no condemnation of the Palestinian side. Of rockets being fired at Israeli civilians?
These marches are pro Palestinian and anti Israeli.
There should be a march against the violence on both sides…
How dare they defend themselves against terrorists trying to commit genocide on them with some home made rockets which are shot down by the iron dome system
Hamas are firing rockets firstly in defence of their people who are being subjected to continued opression and having their land taken from under their feet. Gaza do not have an army or recognised military do therefore Hamas carry the tag of terrorists. Exactly what the IRA was labelled when fighting for freedom in this country. Israel are justifying their actions as retaliation but why have Hamas deemed it necessary to retaliate, because their people are subject to horrible opression and border restrictions. IDF have all the power and are using it to systematically wipe out all of Gaza. Israel have the exact situation they have desired, a flimsy excuse to wage all out terror on a near defencless population.
I don’t understand this ‘they have the excuse now’ argument. The fact is if Israel were the monsters lots insist they are, they could have flattened gaza in an afternoon. This hasn’t and won’t happen. Hamas have a great opportunity to sue for peace and start 2 state negotiations. It’s not want they want though. They want Israel gone.
Hamas leaders are safe in Qatar and their children have been sent to schools in Europe so they have nothing to lose unlike the unfortunate Palestinians whom they use like slaves.
Qatar supplies Hamas (the organisation) with hundreds of millions of dollars, as well as funding their collection of luxury lifestyles with limitless budgets – Mashaal lives in a luxurious hotel penthouse, Haniyah owns a $24 million dollar plot.
They all (the leadership) have multiple Swiss Bank accounts (Switzerland, Austria, Cayman etcetera)
Can you pleasse us how you see this ending, as in what is the next step for israel.
What is there end game here, is it to kill all people in palistine.
Kill all in hamas then what, who will replace them, I for one hope that ISIS will take over, then you and all who support the israeli war machine will suffer the same fait as those inocent people in GAZA
Ireland should follow in the footsteps of Bolivia and officially declare Israel a terrorist state, Expelling the ambassador, boycotting all trade and cutting all ties.
I am deeply uncomfortable with the comparison of Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto for the exact reason that is in that text (I have edited it a little as there was information in between that we have all seen here before):
In the Warsaw Ghetto, 400,000 Jews were forced into an area of 1.3 square miles. Gaza is 139 square miles with a population of 1.8 million. The population density of Gaza is high: 13,069.1/sq mi … The population density of the Warsaw Ghetto was 307,692.
Just more confirmation of the spinelessness of our Taoiseach. The inclusion of Ukraine in this debate is just political cynicism on behalf of ‘our’ government.
You can shove your faux praise for my post, Dermot.
We as a people, correctly, condemn the oppressive and immoral actions taken by the Israeli state against the people of Gaza. This is a conflict like no other and to attempt to confuse it with others is exactly the cynicism I referred to in my previous post.
Wayne …. I know who you are ! and I know what you are on about …
Are you calling the Taoiseach of Ireland a Liar ? That can’t be done even under Dail privilege ..
.Silly Wayne playing with fire !
Why not more of a debate on the Ukraine crisis, maybe it’s because we fear Russia more than Israel, Ukraine crisis or war to be more exact could have a very real effect on this country and our European neighbours. If Russian tanks were poised on the door of Poland and ready to roll through Europe in the morning I wonder if our brave senators would be in such a hurry to go debating , they’d be busy packing their bags and flying off to the U.S. or some other safe haven. It’s a pointless talking shop, bunch of idiots embarrassing themselves and wasting tax payers money .
Wayne you are the caddy …..I’m Timber Woods…thanks for the TEE-UP.. watch your dream of a Natofied Eire fly down our Fair Way …
An chead uimhir, Numero Uno, Numero Primo, First number, Gold Position …you get the point ..
Article 1 …
The Irish nation hereby affirms its inalienable, indefeasible, and sovereign right to choose its own form of Government, to determine its relations with other nations, and to develop its life, political, economic and cultural, in accordance with its own genius and traditions.
Look at the last word ; Traditions – constitutionally protected …let that be the end of now Wayne good ladeen …there are people watching and they might know you …and your friends in J.S.O.C. may find it counter-productive !
Slan leat a mhic agus go neirigh an bothar leat !
I love peace ..it gives me a great sense of humour , or is it that it humours my senses ? Time will tell !
Keep up the good fight Seb – anyone can kill children – that’s cowardice of the lowest grade in my opinion !
Mike thanks again for your personal abuse it makes me warm and fuzzy inside that you have nothing else.
Dermot, I am not sure a government policy is a tradition, you simply have nothing the wording on the Seville deceleration repeats the word Policy, if all three branches of GOV approve we could go to war in the AM! There is not
Horgan v an Taoiseach April 2003
“(e) interpretation of the Constitutional principles as argued for by the plaintiff would clearly permit a challenge to a war declared by the Executive even with the approval of the Dáil under Article 28.3, on the grounds that it was a war that did not comply with justice and morality, or the principle of pacific settlement of disputes, under Articles 29.1 and 29.2.
I accept and hold with the submission of the defendants that the provisions of Article 29.1 — 3 are to be seen therefore as statements of principle or guidelines rather than binding rules on the Executive.”
But you keep referencing obscure wording and poorly phrased political quotes on a newspaper rather than proven case law!!
Good Time Charlie should hang his head in shame. The UN report on how we treat women in Ireland under his watch says it all. He also stands by while his fellow ministers take resource teachers from the travelling community children, his legacy of being in power when the mother and baby homes were open. No integrity whatsoever.
“I killed 13 Palestinian kids in a day”…. Israeli sniper.
An Israeli sniper has admitted to killing 13 children in the Gaza Strip in one day, as Tel Aviv continues its aerial and ground attacks in the besieged enclave. Posting on an Instagram account of a Palestinian, David Ovadia released a photo of himself holding a sniper rifle.
Astonishing of course they were B***dy deliberate one shot from small arms weapon, tank! rocket, artillery etc possibly accidental/negligent discharge 3+ al hitting targets not harmlessly in the air. These were aimed! deliberate shots and I strongly suspect that forward air controllers.artillery observers were involved.
When Will politicians stop making such stupid comments and act.
I’m genuinely not sure if either should go. Surely we want our views fed back to them and then back to their respective country / authority. Perhaps we should call the Irish Ambassadors serving there to come back here?
Bryan their governments through their military are both killers of innocent civilians only the IDF killers are more efficient, what more needs to be said to their respective governments.
The Jews in the Warsaw ghettos also retaliated against the Gestapo attempt to storm it and killed far more members than Hamas have, seventy years on the Jews have became the Gestapo while the world watches live on TV, shame on you Charles Flanagan
As the Jews of Warsaw and Krakow were regarded as “parasites” to be eliminated by the Nazi’s in the early 1940s, the Gazan’s are viewed in the same light by Israeli and western Governments including the Irish Government who are not more that stooges of the USA and EU. Norris is one of the few Irish Politian’s with balls, and must be included with the likes of Noel Browne for standing up and being counter while the rest turn a blind eye. Flanagan is just a 21st Century “blue shirt”.
Oh no! It turns out that it was Grad rocket fired by Hamas and accidentally fell short not reaching Israeli territory as BTW 20% of all rockets fired from Gaza do.
If any of the Seanad feel tired out and stressed they might ask Ismael Haniyeh, the Hamas leader, if they could spend a few days at his $4 million beach side home in Gaza when things quieten down.
Terrorism pays more than Haribo pays we ‘shills’ to come here to show the reality.
Interesting how the American superpower says “please Israel tut tut tut you are killing civilians” then when Israeli supply of munitions is running low says ” here lads you need some extra supplies”. Israel is the US proxy state in the Middle East but also places like Gaza, Syria etc are proxies of Russia. The two power blocks are again using their proxies to promote their own regional interests.
Just because Ireland is “too small to affect change by itself” doesn’t mean you just throw in the towel! The fact that the Good Friday agreement is renowned worldwide should really get them TD’s to do something. Anything is better than nothing FFS!
In 1995 the US arrested Abu Marzouk for activities supporting terrorism and after two years in jail, he was deported without trial. But he kept the money.
“during the 9/11 probe, it was found that he had ties with al Qaeda including money transfers made to the 21 al Qaeda operatives accused of carrying out the attack.”
Today, Abu Marzouk is one of the major billionaires in Hamas. “Arab estimates peg his fortune at 2-3 billion dollars,” Elad says. Another senior-official-turned-terror-tycoon is Khaled Mashaal, head of Hamas’s political wing. “Global estimates say Mashaal is worth $2.6 billion,” but Arab commentators, with other sources, say he is worth between 2 and 5 billion, “invested in Egyptian banks and Gulf countries, some in real estate projects.”
I wouldn’t bother Charles, the EU Court of Auditors and the US Government are all untrustworthy according to the dhimmi, as are the leaders of most countries which are not flying the black flag of islamofascism
Just some of the comments made by the leftards recently
“Fog keeps quoting american presidents backing israel…..laughable considering their relationship.
All the leaders you quote fog are of countries who at one time or another in their recent history engaged in ethnic cleansing genocide occupation and oppression…..very like minded with yourself and israel i can tell
Cameron, Merkel, Obama – can you quote ANY reputable source for any of these “support” statements?
Those were my comments and im not a leftard as you put it fog and to back up those statement im sure i dont have to remind the jews of germanys history of genocide and i dont have to remind an irishman of the british history of oppression and im sure you wont have to ask too many native americans do they know anything about us invovlement in ethnic cleansing. And as for you using the us’ backing of israels attacks to somehow legitimise israels war crimes it is indeed laughable considering the financial and military backing that the us gives to israel.
So whats your point fog? You dont like to be contradicted and you dont like it when someone deflates your arguments that support israels killing of innocent women and children?
You turn to none other than charles who may be of higher intelligence than you but is cut from the same cloth for support. Much like israel turning to the us
Mike. This is a ‘comment’ section. Prima facie evidence is not a prerequisite. To demand it is a facile response at best. So again, feel free to find evidence which challenges fogs comment.
Poor effort, as you say I like to say :)
Charles I demand nothing I merely ask and I will keep asking every time your buddy makes allegations and call him a liar when he posts lies as he has done further down.
You must try harder Charles with your efforts.
I won’t stop.
Charles I make no allegations, I need to prove nothing bud.So enjoy your night no doubt I will have the displeasure of comments again tomorrow.
Maybe you’ll choke on your own bile, one can but hope.
FFS, Flanagan spinning the whole UN vote abstention by attempting to convince the Seanad that Ireland is too small – an independent sovereign nation – to impose effective trade and economic sanctions against Israel! He goes on to further describe that any action Ireland would take has to be in agreement with the larger European block.
In other words, the little man has no voice – only large, powerful conglomerates can decide what action is appropriate.
This is absurd and perverse.
At this stage, it’s either they win or we do something.
I’m ready and I know an awful lot of people are too – let’s mobilise, let’s do something. I, for one, have no interest in investing my time, my energy, my life or future generations in a world that has lost its moral compass.
I want to do something to prevent, or at least halt, this craziness – I don’t know how else to describe it!
Does anyone else see this shit? I mean, really, see this shit?
I be so proud if we took a stand unlike other greedy countries who only think of the economy . People are been murdered FFs and nobody is going nothing. This is not a religious war it’s a territorial war. We should know fm our own past what it’s like to be occupied illegally
So you’re fine with at all costs meaning the slaughter of women and children and the targeting of schools, hospitals and even the power supply? What a fine, upstanding Christian man you are, Steve!
I ain’t a Christian I am a realist. And the reality is no country in the world is going to stand by and let anyone fire 100s of rockets onto its people.do you think the irish would have stood by and let the English fire rockets into the republic day in day out.not a chance we would have returned fire with anything we had to make them stop. There’s no difference at all. Israel has the right to live peacefully. There’s always going to be war that’s our nature we just can’t get on with each other. I would love noting more than the conflict to stop now but it’s not going to happen all we can hope for is no more civilians to be killed. We can live in hope
Even though Flanagan himself argued that we – Ireland, an independent sovereign nation – could have no effect on Israel by imposing sanctions on them because we are ‘too small’.
In recent times, the political system and its actors have failed us when we needed them most. Something has to be done. We cannot continue like this.
Once the penny drops with the rest of you, I fear it will be too late. Even the most indoctrinated of you must now realise, or acknowledge at least, that things are out of kilter.
Looking at all the comments it looks like Ireland has a lot of eye witnesses on the ground. Surely they would not be listening to all the anti Semitic propaganda doing the rounds.
“There are two Gazas, one above ground and one below ground: an underground terrorist city.” Hamas has invested enormously more resources in the underground Gaza—including special escape tunnels for Hamas leaders and their families—than in the above-ground one. Let there be no more doubt that Hamas leaders regard their own people as cannon fodder whose job is to be killed to provide anti-Israel photo ops.
What amazes me is why no one in the IDF has thought of investing in ground penetrating radar, or seismographs which will detect the vibration of digging, if they’re so concerned about putting these tunnels out of action. Apparently it took two years to build one, plenty of time to find the part that stretched into Israel – if the IDF were looking seriously.
That’s what I was hinting at without saying it out loud, Michael. I believe very little of what the Israeli propaganda. I prefer the evidence of my eyes from TV and internet video feeds.
Now I remember where I heard of John Galt. He’s a right winger who prizes individuality abvove all in that most capitalist leaning of books, “Atlas Shrugged”.
“John Galt is a character in Ayn Rand’s novel Atlas Shrugged (1957). Although he is not identified by name until the last third of the novel, he is the object of its often-repeated question “Who is John Galt?” and of the quest to discover the answer.
As the plot unfolds, Galt is acknowledged to be a philosopher and inventor; he believes in the power and glory of the human mind, and the right of the individual to use his/her mind solely for him/herself. He serves as a highly individualist counterpoint to the collectivist social and economic structure depicted in the novel, in which society is based on oppressive bureaucratic functionaries and a culture that embraces mediocrity in the name of egalitarianism, which the novel interprets as the end result of socialistic idealism.”
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt
Idiot ground penetrating radar does not work down that far there hardly going to have the tunnels a few meters down. You keep to your armchair and pretend you know what your talking about clown
Fog no lies please the city manager cancelled 2 of the five concerts in part due to submissions from 370+ residents.
Court’s were not involved in the decision.
Turn on the news and you’ll see a split screen with an Israeli politician on one side and dead Palestinian children on the other. The Israeli leader must defend himself against charges that Israel has killed innocents. That’s why you rarely see Hamas leaders give interviews. They don’t want to answer the question of why they deliberately put their children in harm’s way, why they put rocket launchers on apartment building roofs, or arms depots in school basements, or military headquarters in hospitals, or move terrorists around in school buses. If Hamas officials never go on the air, they don’t have to defend themselves of accusations that they use Palestinian civilians as human shields. They prefer images of dead Palestinian civilians to make their point.
Ismail Haniyeh is the head of the terrorist group, Hamas. They like to cut people’s heads off, kidnap and murder people, locate the rockets they shoot at Israeli school children in UN Schools in Gaza so they can say Israelis target schools when they defend themselves. His mother-in-law has been allowed to enter Israel for medical treatment. Last November, Haniyeh’s granddaughter was also treated in Israel.
Expel anyone connected to Hamas.
“the decision to abstain was a collective EU decision” – Which means that we all abstained due to political correctness while ignoring the anti Israel protests across the entire Continent. Public sentiment is never represented in today’s Political madness. Even if you’re only asking that women and children are not murdered our politicians remain gutless and await a pat on the head from their overlords
Senator Sean barrett:the region needs more investment that’s true barrett but right now what they need is rearming the Palestinians and protection with un peacekeepers what a numpty u are barrett
Any Labour party TD or Fine Gael TD who feel really strongly about the government’s policy on GAZA should resign the whip and walk away from their party.They would do this if their principles are real.Also the International community should be seeking the arrest. Of Netemyau on war crimes
Israel is the only country in the region where David Norris could live , anyone who is willing to allow thousands of rockets to fired at them is a fool , the Israelis are not but judging by many of the posts there are a lot of fools about , Yasser Arafat had the opportunity for peace but he chose war , he knew he would never get support from the militants whose only wish is to destroy Israel ( is the wife still living in luxury in Paris ? ), all the other Arab had lots of opportunities to help the Palastinians , huge countries , some with huge wealth , but no destroy Israel and use these poor people as cannon fodder
Thought they were also going to discuss the Ukraine to???Not much mention of Putins Imperalistic war mongering and arms supplying there.but hey,I guess 298 people being blown out of the sky is old news now to this bunch of intellectual windbags,and also rans especially that old Queen Norris.BTW darling,the capital of Israel is TEL AVIV not Juresaelm.
298 people blown out of the sky was a crime and is being dealt with through sanctions and investigation, Gaza is ongoing slaughter by the IDF that’s the difference.
Those people on that flight were murdered in one go; your buddies in the IDF are still busy killing.
I stated it twice just so you might understand the difference.
Charlie Flanagan says …”If we expelled every ambassador from Dublin for alleged human rights abuses there would be very few CD plated registered cars around our city”……. and I say …Well get on with it then and expel them, just cause everyone is doing it does not make it right..backbone charlie ..is what its called, standing up against the bully….Its what the Irish nation want .YOU WORK FOR US CHARLIE ,REMEMBER THAT
I love how my fellow homosexual (David Norris) pretends that Palestine is some kind of civilized place, as though homosexuals are not murdered in “Palestine” simply for being gay. THAT is pinkwashing.
this will just get worse until the US change there position on Israel and with the capture of an Israeli soldier I dread to think how many more innocent Palestinians will die
Charles,this question is for you especially,but everyone can try to answer it, Why was the state of Israel set up in the first place,why does it have to be there.
'Dealing with the legal system was worse than the rape': Victims of male violence demand change
3 hrs ago
4.0k
Dublin
Judge orders psychiatric report be carried out on Stoneybatter knife attack accused
18 mins ago
485
DWTS
Viewers call for change in Dancing with the Stars voting format after Kevin Dundon remains on show
17 Feb
77.5k
35
Your Cookies. Your Choice.
Cookies help provide our news service while also enabling the advertising needed to fund this work.
We categorise cookies as Necessary, Performance (used to analyse the site performance) and Targeting (used to target advertising which helps us keep this service free).
We and our 148 partners store and access personal data, like browsing data or unique identifiers, on your device. Selecting Accept All enables tracking technologies to support the purposes shown under we and our partners process data to provide. If trackers are disabled, some content and ads you see may not be as relevant to you. You can resurface this menu to change your choices or withdraw consent at any time by clicking the Cookie Preferences link on the bottom of the webpage .Your choices will have effect within our Website. For more details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
We and our vendors process data for the following purposes:
Use precise geolocation data. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Store and/or access information on a device. Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development.
Cookies Preference Centre
We process your data to deliver content or advertisements and measure the delivery of such content or advertisements to extract insights about our website. We share this information with our partners on the basis of consent. You may exercise your right to consent, based on a specific purpose below or at a partner level in the link under each purpose. Some vendors may process your data based on their legitimate interests, which does not require your consent. You cannot object to tracking technologies placed to ensure security, prevent fraud, fix errors, or deliver and present advertising and content, and precise geolocation data and active scanning of device characteristics for identification may be used to support this purpose. This exception does not apply to targeted advertising. These choices will be signaled to our vendors participating in the Transparency and Consent Framework.
Manage Consent Preferences
Necessary Cookies
Always Active
These cookies are necessary for the website to function and cannot be switched off in our systems. They are usually only set in response to actions made by you which amount to a request for services, such as setting your privacy preferences, logging in or filling in forms. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not then work.
Targeting Cookies
These cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.
Functional Cookies
These cookies enable the website to provide enhanced functionality and personalisation. They may be set by us or by third party providers whose services we have added to our pages. If you do not allow these cookies then these services may not function properly.
Performance Cookies
These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. They help us to know which pages are the most and least popular and see how visitors move around the site. All information these cookies collect is aggregated and therefore anonymous. If you do not allow these cookies we will not be able to monitor our performance.
Store and/or access information on a device 102 partners can use this purpose
Cookies, device or similar online identifiers (e.g. login-based identifiers, randomly assigned identifiers, network based identifiers) together with other information (e.g. browser type and information, language, screen size, supported technologies etc.) can be stored or read on your device to recognise it each time it connects to an app or to a website, for one or several of the purposes presented here.
Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development 133 partners can use this purpose
Use limited data to select advertising 103 partners can use this purpose
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times an ad is presented to you).
Create profiles for personalised advertising 75 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service (such as forms you submit, content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (for example, information from your previous activity on this service and other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (that might include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present advertising that appears more relevant based on your possible interests by this and other entities.
Use profiles to select personalised advertising 74 partners can use this purpose
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on your advertising profiles, which can reflect your activity on this service or other websites or apps (like the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects.
Create profiles to personalise content 36 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service (for instance, forms you submit, non-advertising content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (such as your previous activity on this service or other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (which might for example include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present content that appears more relevant based on your possible interests, such as by adapting the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find content that matches your interests.
Use profiles to select personalised content 32 partners can use this purpose
Content presented to you on this service can be based on your content personalisation profiles, which can reflect your activity on this or other services (for instance, the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects. This can for example be used to adapt the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find (non-advertising) content that matches your interests.
Measure advertising performance 124 partners can use this purpose
Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Measure content performance 59 partners can use this purpose
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Understand audiences through statistics or combinations of data from different sources 72 partners can use this purpose
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Develop and improve services 79 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Use limited data to select content 37 partners can use this purpose
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
Use precise geolocation data 42 partners can use this special feature
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Actively scan device characteristics for identification 24 partners can use this special feature
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Ensure security, prevent and detect fraud, and fix errors 82 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Deliver and present advertising and content 92 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Match and combine data from other data sources 65 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Link different devices 48 partners can use this feature
Always Active
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Identify devices based on information transmitted automatically 81 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
Save and communicate privacy choices 60 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
have your say