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SERIOUS VIOLENCE IN Northern Ireland over the flying of the Union flag is being orchestrated by loyalist paramilitary organisations, the head of the Police Federation of Northern Ireland has said.
Terry Spence made the claims as PSNI officers came under sustained attack from a crowd of protesters in Belfast for the third successive day on Saturday.
A crowd of more than one hundred people attacked police for almost four hours around the Newtownards Road area of east Belfast using fireworks, golf balls and masonry as weapons. One police officer sustained injuries in the disorder but did not require hospital treatment.
Police are also investigating claims that shots were fired at police during the disturbance. A 38-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder.
Nine people were arrested on public order offences and appeared before a special sitting of Belfast Magistrates Court last night.
Paramilitary group “holding the community to ransom”
Speaking on BBC Radio 5 Live last night, Terry Spence of the Police Federation of Northern Ireland, which represents PSNI officers, said that a loyalist paramilitary group had “hijacked” the flags issue and were using “any excuse” to attack the police.
“[I have] absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this violence is being orchestrated by loyalist paramilitary organisations, and primarily by the UVF,” he said.
This paramilitary group have been holding the local community to ransom.
The protests have been ongoing since 2 December when Belfast City Council voted to change the number of days the Union flag flies over the council building from 365 days per year to fifteen.
A motion had initially been put forward which would have seen the Union flag removed completely from the Council building but the compromise motion of 15 days was put forward by the Alliance Party.
Since then there have been flashpoint protests across Northern Ireland and an increased number of security alerts. Police are treating a viable device which was found under the car of a police officer one week ago as attempted murder.
“Illegal protests have no legitimacy”
SDLP policing spokesperson Conall McDevitt said the protests are illegal and have no legitimacy.
“Whatever grievance some people may have had, it [is] totally lost when they allow people to use these protests as cover for attempted murder,” he said.
“There is only one response possible – and that’s a firm policing response against everyone involved in illegal protests and anyone seeking to organise or encourage illegal or violent demonstrations”.
(All photos: Paul Faith/PA Wire)
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Apparently there is 3 buses full of loyalists coming to protest outside Leinster house next Saturday, ‘sarcastically’ asking that we no longer fly the tri-colour over town hall. They are just asking for trouble. It’s organised by the same people who organised the march in February 2006.
They didn’t cause trouble in Feb 2006 you will remember.
Best way for the cops to handle is to take the batons to the Celtic shirt brigade and leave the ‘Loyalists’ have their nonsensical protest.
I never said they caused the trouble, but they know that by protesting next week they’ll bring out all the brainless yobs who did cause the trouble. They know exactly what they’re doing and the Gardai shouldn’t allow it.
Wouldn’t it be a lot better to just put the flag up
So they go to the Dublin they vow never to bow to in order to complain about a democratic motion passed by the Alliance Party in Belfast.A British Administration in Stormont that flies a Union Flag limits its days so they go to another jurisdiction which has absolutely no power to protest?They should go to Wales Scotland or England if they have an issue.
There’s a good idea! Fly the union flag over government buildings for the day.
Maybe they should starve themselves first !
There is going to be a war next Saturday. There won’t be any uniforms, you don’t chose your side, your side is chosen for you. It all depends if you are wearing a Celtic shirt or a Rangers shirt. Shops will be smashed up, merchandise stolen and Charlie bird might get roughed up again, all in the name of nationalism
Correct Gareth. Another media stunt by loyalist bigots to antagonise people into showing themselves up to the world media by instigating a riot. this a public safety issue and should not be let go ahead by the Guards!!also if Leo Varadkar wants the Irish image to thrive he should get involved to stop this tarnish! !!
Can the Gardai not just ban them from having this protest in Dublin?
Yes, Rehinalds Tower they can, but that doesn’t mean they will.
@ Reginald’s tower – people should never be prevented from saying what they think, including being able to form a peaceful protest, I for one completely disagree with what they are protesting about, yet fully encourage them to do so.
I glad they are visiting their real capital, Dublin
I thought Cork aaa the real capital?
I agree Liam, but coming down here and ‘sarcastically’ asking us not to fly a flag is going to cause uproar. They only want it to kick off here, they know the flag won’t be taking down.
Liam is describing the very definition of democracy. Why is he getting more red then green thumbs for his comment?
Do you not think it would be hilarious if a big angry mob of unionists do descend on the capital demanding we take down the tricolour and we just go yeah sure why not. They would be infuriated. How do you deal with a bully? Don’t give them the response they are looking for
This is not China,the police can’t just stop a protest if they feel like it
It’s important that their march is not outlawed so that they can see what a real Democracy looks like.
Bit of border control might be called for, stop them before they hit El Paso, sorry, Dundalk and send them home.
why are they coming to Dublin to protest to out politicians? The politicians in the North made the call on the Union Jack, nothing to do with Dublin.
Nothing unusual about this,Irish people coming to Dublin to protest against government policy.
The best way to deal with these clowns is to ignore them 100 percent, it’ll render their protest void. Set up a temporary canteen across the road selling Irish Stew and fiddle music blaring in the background, with a big sign saying, “Welcome to Dublin, your capital city”. There’s more then one way to skin a cat, a well placed and clever insult is better than a physical blow.
We should appease them by giving them Carlow and Leitrim
They can
I don’t care whether I get thumbed down or up based on the comments I make on internet forums, however it is interesting that I got so many thumbs down on the comment I made in regards to free speech.
For the people who thumbed down, I take it that you would have no problem with other people being prevented from being able to voice their opinions as well, including yourselves of course, because if you did not include yourself in being prevented from being able to voice your opinion, you would be seen as a hypocrite, and of course, you are not hypocrites, are you?
Liam we can prevent people who do not have Irish Citizenship from entering the Republic of Ireland to incite hatred/violence and protest are national flag. The United Kingdom blocks many people from around the world in entering the UK for their protests due to fears of them inciting riots/violence and being hate organizations, ex: Westboro Baptist Church. There is nothing undemocratic about that. Willie Frazer argument is completely insane. The people (elected by the people themselves) who voted on the Union Flag are citizens of Northern Ireland and have every right to do so.
How is that a good idea you gimp!!
Love it
PSNI should not allow them to cross the border and the guards should force them to turn back also if they do get across, keep them out of Dublin they know right well riots will result
Yeah, can you imagine their reaction if we all travelled up to Belfast and asked them to fly the tricolour? Sarcastically of course, just for the Craic? Shouldn’t be allowed to happen. They’re only looking to cause trouble. Mutual respect will never exist while they burn Tricolours on their bonfires and then take a daytrip to Dublin to protest about a democratic decision taken by their assembly.
No, because the decision to remove it was taken by a democratic vote and to put it back would just be giving into thugs.
Let them go to Dublin, if they cause trouble see how they like being locked up in an Irish prison for a couple of years, I’m sure flag waving loyalists would go down a storm in there.
This might sound stupidly obvious but isn’t the tri colour only up when dail is sitting. So they will come demanding to take down a flag thats not there. Not really planned that one will did they
“British and Proud” banners make me laugh, prouder than the British themselves and no one in the British empire gives a shit about these lowlife thugs.
In fact they do. That’s why that part of Ireland remains part of the UK. Because the English care more about them than we do about Catholics in NI.
Actually, I think you’ll find that they don’t.. Ask the average person in England what they think of northern loyalists – they couldn’t give a fiddlers about them and would cut them off in a heartbeat if they could.
Ireland-1 : Britain-Naught
Ive had English people ask if Dublin is in the north or south,a few thought there was a border 50/50 across the middle,another asked me if i was british because as i was from dublin.
Brits dont care because when they research it they get confused,one newcastle lad on the Dailmail website said “Northern ireland is part of britain.Fact”
Nearly choked laughing
Thousands of young soldiers served to defend that part of the UK while people in the South did nothing to support the nationalist side. Fact.
@ Jason
You are right we have let our brothers in the north down. United Ireland is the only long term solution.
Stick it in the pan
I’m sure the British gov would love to get rid of NI as it costs them twice as much to keep as is brought in in taxes. Nearly 50% of employment in the north is public sector which is totally unsustainable.
As much as it would be great to reunite the island of Ireland, it would cripple us to have to start funding that kind of cost.
Wonder if the unionists fecked off back to the mainland and the republicans moved down, could we build a mega nuclear plant up there and sell power to the rest of Europe or maybe offer to sell/rent the land to the Israelis, I here they’ll be looking for a new home soon.
On a more serious note though, why not just ban all flags and marches up there and leave the past in the past!
The Celtic jersey brigade will no doubt be on hand to welcome them.
Darren go to hell, or to Connacht ………
Hell is the soft option!
Was’nt it mostly eastern europeans that attacked them the last time?
Yes Paul, bloody foreigners, coming over here, stealing our yobs.
I heard Henrik Larsson and Regi Blinker are leading the counter-protest, assembling outside Footlocker on O’Connell Street
Pity the north couldn’t be cut off and left floating towards Greenland
Sure i suppose the people murdered on Bloody Sunday deserved it too.Comments like yours ignore the misery inflicted by the brits in the 6 counties
Which 6 counties?
What terrible thing did Greenland ever do to deserve them?
If you dont know the 6 counties you shouldnt be commenting in the first place.If you want to make uneducated comments go to the DailyMail website you wil fit right in.
I know lots of counties, to which 6 are you referring to?
Well maybe you should educate yourself on some of the misery inflicted by the other side too!
Grow up buckwheat. You know exactly what the 6 counties means.
Well, It did’nt work out to good for the last thing from the north that was left floating towards greenland…. : )
Rob, I don’t no how ye think that comment has any thing to do with Bloody Sunday.
Most people who see fit to refer to NI as ‘the six counties’ would not be able to name them on the spot if asked, can you?
Buckwheat:
i’d have greater difficuty in naming the 26.
Problem with that @no yourself is they’d want to rename it Orangeland
Robertomangain, surely it’s harsh on all the innocent civilians murdered by the catholic terrorists, drug dealers and thugs down through the years as well?
My comment means ignorance is not bliss.
It’s going to be some craic next week when these lads come down, I hope we don’t see a repeat of 6 years ago, but, there will be a lot of so called republicans looking to counter demonstrate, ie throw stones. What the Loyalists don’t seem to understand is that the Tri-Colour represents a who nation, whereas the Union flag only represents a section of a country, I’m sure the Alliance Party, Sinn Fein, DUP etc would have no issue with a compromise of flying the Northern Irish flag?. If N.I is to truly move on, and establish its own identity, it needs to either replace the Union flag with the Northern Irish flag, or design one that represents a who country, it also needs it’s own National anthem, as a lot of Nationalists won’t play for Northern Ireland because of the anthem and deep rooted sectarianism in N.I, take Derry FC, James McLean & Darron Gibson for example. Also, Willie Penrose Is an absolute tit.
There is no “Northern Irish” flag or national anthem!
And there probably never will be as they would be incapable of agreeing upon one.
They could bring back the ulster banner? As it is some unionists (and thugs) use it anyway. They should take it back and use it for everyone in Northern Ireland. They’re idiot to go to Leinster house with their symbolic demand to remove the tri colour when it won’t even be flown that day anyway! :) just hope our own scrotes don’t go embarrassing us again like they did for the love ulster parade!
The Ulster Banner does not and never will represent me as its the flag of the old Stormont regime- it has 6 points and a crown over the red hand of Ulster, that almost worse than the Union flag! l think if any the true Ulster flag shouId be flown as long as its not used just for NI but why do we need a flag anyway?
Hense he said “develop”.
So what flag and anthem does the NI team use during the commonwealth games?
So your proposed NI flag should include counties not in NI? That makes sense
Fiachra KellyMcElroy, you most be embarrassed by us in the Free State and how we abandoned our brothers and sisters up Northways. Don’t worry we’re not all script reading robots down here, thers still a few old heads. Good health to ya
From T.V and news reports last night it seemed they were saying it was the nationalists that live in east Belfast that started all the trouble.Yet there was no camera footage showing any backlash from the other side.U.T.V and the BBC reporting this on the word from some loyalist trouble makers is dangerous and puts the lives of catholics in east belfast in danger.Shame on them….
Even if nationalists did start it this particular time (and I wouldn’t be surprised if they did), it doesn’t account for the previous few weeks of thuggery!
It’s a Union Jack flag build a bridge and get over it. It represents nothing these days exceot old colonial of old.
The Gardai recently stopped a protest by students without a valid reason.
http://www.thejournal.ie/student-sleep-out-garda-permission-723119-Dec2012/
Surely they can refuse these individuals giving the same “you just can’t do it” reason. If its good enough for the students of this country its good enough for these protesters. MUNSTER, LEINSTER, CONNACHT, AND PART OF ULSTER SAY “NO”
They have much better reason than ‘You just can’t do it’ this time, look at what did happened In 2006. I have no doubt that if it does go ahead there will be some level of trouble. Only the Gardai can stop this and they’d be stupid to allow it go ahead, but I really wouldn’t be too surprised either.
@Gareth- they’d love it to be banned. Affirmation of their assertion that their identity would be denied expression in a United Ireland.
Its about time and the funny thing about it it was themselves who showed them up for what they truely are an angry mob with no cause and a privilage once had giving to them by an occupying ruler that has lost interest that is slowly ebbing away because it was never just in the first place.
Frazer and his followers have every right to march in Dublin after all they are covered under the Irish Constitution
Article 2 ” It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation.”
So we should welcome Mr Frazer and his comrades as a people who are part of the Irish Nation.
They also have the right under Article 6.1 to ” express freely their convictions and opinions” and Art 6.2 “to assemble peaceably and without arms.”
So we should welcome our fellow IRISH citizens to Dublin where they can express their views as IRISH men and women under the IRISH Constitution in the capital of IRELAND. The Government and the press office should stress to the media that Mr Frazer and his followers as IRISH people have every right to march as part of the IRISH nation.
Wee Willie is bound to have a meltdown if he hears himself being called an Irishman on Sky News and BBC!
Except if your an IRISH student protesting over fees etc. Your arrested and your denied futher protest in Dublin. The Reason: WELL YOU JUST CANT. 1 law for 1 IRISH MAN and another law for the Visitng IRISH MAN.
http://www.thejournal.ie/student-sleep-out-garda-permission-723119-Dec2012/
There is a difference between standing outside a building for a few hours protesting and camping overnight at government buildings. Try putting a camp outside the White house or 10 Downing St and its going to get refused to.
Well they’ll have their wish Saturday the dail doesn’t sit so there will be no tricolour flying over Leinster house
Remember kids “Ulster is British” apart from Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal and Fermanagh, Tyrone, Derry, South Armagh and the bits of Belfast that are majority Nationalist. Those bits of Ulster aren’t British. lol.
You’d wonder why polls show 3 to 1 in favour of the Union then if that is the case.
Do a bit of research and find out who did the polls and in what areas did they do these polls
He’s talking about the last census, and of course you’re right the census takers first question is “are you a nationalist” and if you say yes they just leave
These “people” are unbelievable sad.
Unionists are a minority on Belfast City Council, and they get to fly their flag for 15 days a year… Nationalists are a majority on Belfast City Council, and they never get to fly their flag at all… and its the unionists who are causing trouble!
well said jamie
Embracing the all Ireland concept .! Who knew loyalist had it in them .
Don’t get carried away. They’re only coming down to say “No”
I can only assume they’re coming down here as part of “THE GATHERING”……..
After all Leo Varadkar did invite them…. :)
Those who riot and throw petrol bombs etc, do so because they want to participate in a riot. They could just as easily instigate a “political” initiative with their elected representatives to propperly address their grievances. That would be the democratic approach to resolving societal problems. Are we to assume that the citizens of Belfast do not want to participate in democracy?
At the 2011 local elections, out of an electorate of about 170,000, only around 93,000 valid votes were cast. Says it all really, how many of those out protesting actually voted or just decided to stay in watching Eastenders because voting is “a waste of time, nothing changes”?
Wonder what Rory McIlroy thinks on this one
It was a stupid idea to limit the flying of the Union Jack in the first place. A blind man could see it was just going to cause trouble so why don’t they just fly the Union Jack, Tri-colour and Northern Ireland flags in equal measure? Keep everyone happy and no one has a reason to protest?
Stupid or not (your words) it was a motion passed democratically.
Only the Irish flag should be flown in Ireland north & south. Its time to bring these bigots to justice. If they are that loyal to the crown then they would not be attacking the police.
I agree Aaron, the flag should have been left, Alliance and SF knew right well there would be trouble with this decision
First of all, it was Sinn Fein and the SDLP that proposed the original motion which was to remove the flag altogether, Alliance party proposed a compromise to fly it only on certain days in line with other council buildings as well as Stormont. Sinn Fein and the SDLP have more councillors on Belfast City Council than all the Unionist Parties so their original motion would have passed if Alliance voted for it or abstained. A lot of Protestant people seem to think the Alliance party is a unionist one of sorts and seem to see themselves betrayed because they voted for the designated days policy, obviously these people have never read any of the Alliance parties policies which promote equality, shared space, no flags, symbols etc.(the clue is in the parties name). I don’t buy the argument that the parties would have known there would be trouble as there wasn’t trouble at other council decisions or Stormont.
I’d like to see them take a trip to Argentina to protest – wonder how it would turn out?
Ah but would the dole stretch to a ticket to Argentina? On second thoughts – statement retracted lol
I’d like to see the Argies roll into the Falklands to protest!! Remember the Falklands and NI are in British hands because of actions not just words.
I’m gonna call you on that one there, sorry.
NI is part of this land, the Falklands are 300 miles away from Argentina.
NI should be handed back as it is Irish territory but the Falklands were never Argentinian. The British colonies landed there long before Argentina ever existed!
Sean your a bit confused by the spin the british media are putting out.
Argentina didnt exist in the name it did today but it existed nonetheless,using the British argument a lot of places have no right to exist,Israel for example.I always say the brits will live anywhere as long as it pisses people off even a barren collection of desolate rocks in the middle of nowhere.
The Brits were the first humans to step foot on the Falklands!
It’s is believed that the first settlers that settled in Ireland were Scottish!
So if we apply your logic the Argentineans have no rights to the falkland Islands and the Scots have more rights to Ireland than the Irish!
There was no such thing as ‘Scottish’ when the first people settled on this island.The first settlers here were us.
I’m gonna go with Celts there Dec, and yep, we and the Scottish are all Celts!
Dread to see what all this is going to evolve into. What’s happened so far is the opposite of what usually happens when’s there’s a bit of tension, it’s got, and is, getting worse.
But I’m just glad that Unionism/Loyalism is doing so much damage to itself.
If a load of Dubliners with Celtic jerseys that are 5 seasons old cause violence next week, then I’ll give up. You’ll go mad over this but you won’t go mad over the 4 1/2 year old recession, taxes, budgets, austerity, emigration, depression, phony politicians, the EU and it progression to nothingness etc etc
well said sir.
best solution for these huns is to round them all up and bring them back to the zoo
Most ridiculously xenophobic comment i have heard in quite a while, well done sir…
thank you the man with 3 first names ha hae
Ah sure the mammy is old school catholic, they were the names chosen for me for my communion and conformation, i was gonna choose ramesees for my conformation name, lets just say i was ‘advised’ not to by some christian brothers, a priest and my mother. Thought keith anthony ramesees irish had a ring to it? Apparently it does not?
This has nothing to do with a flag, it’s just an excuse for the loyalists to move a bit of contraband around when the police are busy with a bunch of kids arguing over a piece of coloured material, it’s actually hilarious to be honest
You got it in one
Personally i dont have a problem with these loyalist clowns ridiculous demonstration outside Leinster house next saturday once they are searched for weapons getting off their buses,as shots were fired in Belfast last night.Hopefully they spend at few quid while here.
The British queen and pm should come out and condemn these acts and the unionist involved, and when they are at it set a date to hand back our 6 counties Hong Kong style!
Gerry, it will never happen, back through history not one pm or monarch has condemned anything unionists or loyalists have done, if anything it was the British government that handed information to them ie; pat finucane
I know, wishful thinking
We are great at telling the population of Northern Ireland to ‘move on’ in our patronising way.
Yet the comments on here suggest we need to look inwards first.
They have every right to be annoyed at the flying of a tricolour over their city hall in the same way nationalists were annoyed for many years over the union flag.
They also have every right to peacefully march in Dublin if thats what they want to do
(As you would say to the northern unionists) Grow up and move on.
What tricolour over which city hall?
There’s no question of the tricolour being flown. What is being suggested is a restriction of the Union flag being flown only 15 days a year.
There is no tricolour flying over Belfast City Hall.
Should the tri- colour also fly over belfast city hall for 15 days a year aswell.
Definitely comment of the week hahahaha!!
to grow up and move on would be to sit down and realise that they should start to form an identity of their own as a nation and forget all this crap about a union jack or tri-colour. In my opinion Its time for both communities to accept that it doesn’t matter what flag flies over the city hall and that its northern Ireland they live in
So you wouldnt mind a British flag flying over the GPO and Govt buildings,after all we are in the Republic.And the north is NOT a nation,it is not a country,it is a state and a failed one at that.
Sorry I phrased that comment badly, All I’m saying is they would be better off establishing their own identity as northern irish people instead of fighting over the lowering of the union flag. It’s their own ‘state’ (sorry about that :-P) and they should respect it and it’s people more than to go out rioting on its streets over such an issue and put it in the news for all the wrong reasons!
Apols, the important word ‘if’ is missing from my comment above. ….”if the tricolour was flying ….”
I agree with you Marc, what they are doing is very damaging to Belfast which is a great city to visit, a lot of people won’t want to travel to Belfast now.
Let them come down sure. Of course, make sure they are sent the bill for the policing and clean up costs.
Am I right in saying that the Union Flag is only flown over government buildings when being officially used, throughout the UK? Then what makes them so special? The law is exactly the same as every other British subject.
No you’re wrong.
Government buildings are obliged to fly the flag on certain dates, but they are permitted to fly it any time.
@ Damocies
you say –
“Government buildings are obliged to fly the flag on certain dates, but they are permitted to fly it any time.”
wrong
not any more in The Six Counties.
He was asking about the rule in the rest of the UK.
That was to what I was referring.
I’m shocked, I thought twas Greenpeace that was at the back of it!
These people are beyond the pale they are an shame to the uk and should be excammunicated
I think that these People Are Confused between Irish And Been British” The Problem is this is all republic of Ireland all 32 Counties are Irelands property Not British” no Need To Apply
bloody thugs who are tension seekers! trying to Destroy Peace With National Communities! why dont The Settlers Go Back To Britain” at Least The National Catholic Community will be relieved from Peace And Deport all Britis Loyalist Back To Britain where they came from and cut the pole down!
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Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
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