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IN 2014, THE levels of resource teachers and special needs assistants will be same as last year – but schools with a child with multiple disabilities will be allocated less teaching support.
The move has been condemned by Down Syndrome Ireland this evening.
The National Council for Special Education (NCSE) announced today that the levels of resource teacher and special needs assistant (SNA) posts have been maintained at 2012/2013 levels.
A school with a child with multiple disabilities in September 2012 would have been allocated 4 hours and 15 minutes additional teaching hours each week. This year, the same school will be allocated 3 hours and 45 minutes additional teaching support per week.
Condemned
Education Officer for Down Syndrome Ireland, Patricia Griffin, has strongly condemned today’s NCSE cuts, describing them as “utterly unacceptable”.
Griffin said given the increase in numbers of children who have special needs, the announcement represented “a serious cutback in resource support”. She said this will have long-term adverse implications for children who have Down syndrome.
“A 25 per cent cutback in resource hours is a huge policy failure that will impact on literacy levels all over the country, not to mention integration of children with special needs. These cuts are utterly unacceptable,” she said.
She added that the Minister for Education “is reneging on his promises to ring fence all services for people with intellectual disabilities”.
Though staff numbers are not being reduced, pupil numbers have increased by approximately 10 per cent, so in real terms, resources have been cut by a further 10 per cent, following a 15 per cent cut last year. The Government is refusing to honour its commitment to adequately support children with special educational needs in mainstream education. We are appalled by this announcement. Once again the most vulnerable people in our society are suffering.
The NCSE It said that 5,265 resource teacher posts and 10,575 SNA posts are available in the 2013/14 school year. The positions are allocated to schools to support students with special educational needs.
It was also announced that 3,750 primary and post primary schools will have additional resource teacher and SNA posts in place in September 2013, while 42,500 students with special educational needs will receive additional teaching support and 22,000 students will have access to SNA support.
The Government will maintain a €1.3bn investment in special education in 2013.
Students
The NCSE also said that policy advice is being developed on educating children with Autism Spectrum Disorders. It has allocated 4,773 resource teaching and 10,494 SNA posts for the 2013/2014 school year to assist 3,750 schools to educate and care for students with special educational needs.
Additional posts will be allocated to schools during the next school year to provide support for newly assessed or enrolling students.
According to the NCSE, posts remain available to respond to urgent applications that may arise during the coming school year.
It said that over 42,500 students will receive additional teaching supports against approximately 38,400 last year, and that the number of available teaching posts has been maintained so the basis for allocating resource teaching hours to schools has been adjusted in line with available resources.
NCSE Chief Executive, Teresa Griffin said:
I would encourage schools to continue to maximise their use of additional teaching hours through careful planning, team teaching and/or the withdrawal of students to work in small groups in order to minimise the impact of this adjustment on individual students.
The NCSE is to begin work on developing proposals for a new allocation model for teaching supports. It said these are to ensure that all available posts are allocated to schools in line with their educational profile of need, rather than on the basis of the number of students attending or the number of class teachers.
It’s good to know the little darling are going into a state of the art facility at Trinity house. Nothing but the best for the “disadvantaged” while 20km up the road in the Lourdes hospital elderly people that worked hard all their lives wait 12 hours to be seen.
What a thoroughly ignorant and uncivilised viewpoint! You know nothing about these kids or the ‘childhood’ they’ve had. Comparing the centre to a hospital is completely irrelevant. A society is judged on how it treats its most vulnerable. That includes how we treat our elderly as well as those who break the law.
Have any of the perverts who took joy out of bullying and stripping boys been caught and prosecuted?
Vunerable?!?
Martin. Maybe you too would have an “ignorant and uncivilised viewpoint” if your property was beong constantly damaged or stolen by the “vulnerable” kids. Here a mad idea. Maybe the state should look after the people that actually work and contribute to society in the same manner as they do the disadvantaged.
The only vulnerable thing was my Samsung note left on the seat of my car
Now that is interesting isn’t Martin???
Not one ‘pervert’ arrested???
You are as naive as you are ignorant if you think that any regime in any prison is organised or run by staff.
Now who is in charge of prisons???
I’ll leave that with you to sink in…..
Yes Darren, vulnerable. If you step back and look at the big picture you should see that your simple view that these often violent individuals, who have done terrible things, can’t be fixed with more violence and degredation.
Protect society, yes – but not at the cost of anyone’s dignity.
Mickmc – I’ve had lots of crime committed against me, I’ve had loved ones mugged, bikes, cars, motorbikes wrecked, house broken into, but STILL I would NOT stoop to violating a young person out of some kind of twisted revenge.
A civilised society will take a more mature and pragmatic view of all of this. I’m glad we have and that this institution has been closed. I’d still expect that anyone who has taken abusive action against these kids is dealt with. Just because they do terrible things does not make them terrible people.
It’s you that needs to step back and look at the big picture Martin.
Patlyndo thanks for your assessment. I will politely disagree with it. I am neither ignorant or naive thank you and I am well aware of how the world works. Unlike you however, I have given it a bit of thought and realised that more of the same will produce more of the same. Brutality begets brutality.
I’ll let that sink in.
You can disagree all you like, you may know how the world works, but you’re ignorant as to how prison works.
You have made outrageous allegations against staff, calling them perverts and are now accusing them of all kinds of brutality.
It wasn’t staff that decided to incarcerate children, it wasn’t staff who introduced procedures and it wasn’t staff who were in charge.
No staff have been arrested now why would that be?
Well Martin. I have to say I commend your spirit of forgiveness
Patlyndo – I think you’re losing the run of yourself. Unnecessarily stripping a young man is perversion.
You then said that I had accused staff of all kinds of brutality. I didn’t. Are you forgetting that what I said is in black and white for everyone to read? So there’s no point in lying about what I’m saying.
I’ll let that sink in.
Martin, could you please direct me to that part of the report?
Ok Martin
The building in st pats is covered in cameras so it should be no problem in catching these “perverts”. These “kids” target the most vulnerable in society. They rob the old of their possessions and bully vulnerable kids and that is why their locked up. They commit crimes such as murder, rape and robberies. Pedophiles have been locked up there. These kids where
Abandoned by their parents and they should be held responsible to. As for the cutting of the clothes it was only done in extreme circumstances. Would you rather a suicidal kid used track suit bottoms to hang himself?
That’s a joke, Derek
I assume you’ve read the full report? And no I wouldn’t ‘rather a suicidal kid was left with clothes to hang himself’ and citing an extreme example to justify cruel treatment is a standard ploy.
Read the report. Why weren’t procedures followed as mandated by the inspector? Why were prisoners afraid of staff? Why were 18 year olds in solitary confinement? Clearly this has been considered serious enough to close the institution by those closer to it than any of us. But I’d still like to know that the system that makes staff behave in an inhumane way, or that facilitates inhumane staff, is fixed. And that those who are attracted to this kind of work for the wrong reasons are pointed out and removed. We’ve plenty of history of abuse of kids by the state and religion in this country. ENOUGH!
Read the report here:
http://www.inspectorofprisons.gov.ie/en/IOP/Appendix%20A%2005.10.pdf/Files/Appendix%20A%2005.10.pdf
Orla (the writer of this piece)
I think this article is a disgrace and once again an attempt to blacking the name of the staff who worked in pats. Just so you know pats is not closing down. It will no longer house 17 year olds. Adults will be sent there under a different name of mount joy west. This government still deems the building good enough for adults. Not one member of staff has lost his/her job from this report. Strange ? But never mentioned in the articles. In five years time please research where the kids of obberstown are ? From experience I can’t predict the future but my guess will be in prison and possibly mountjoy west !!!!!
Are you still looking? By the way, your denial that you accused staff of all kinds of brutality kinda falls down when you then say:
“but STILL I would NOT stoop to violating a young person out of some kind of twisted revenge.”
It is the case that the drug culture that exists on the outside has carried on into all prisons, the problem in St. Pat’s was acknolwedged in the report as the worst.
The staff were dealing with violent, angry and aggressive drug addicted juveniles who would assault them with little or no provocation, or to get themselves put on 23 hour lockup because another prisoner wanted them dead due to a drug debt.
The visits became screened and when airport security was eventually introduced (forget which year) everyone wanted the “family” visits because there were no screens and this was a way to get drugs into the prisons.
The real vulnerable prisoners were the new ones who were going back and forth to court – these were the target of the hard men, who would threaten them to get drugs at the court and bring them in internally – if not then they would be beaten up.
You have absolutely zero clue of what went on in that or any other prison and anyone who takes what drug addicts, liars and thieves tell them at face value are fools.
Keyboard gangsters out in force this morning
Ah, you have the report – good!!
“Drugs and contraband in St. Patricks (p.28)
Illegal drugs and contraband are a problem in all prisons. It appears that the problem is worst in St. Patricks. St. Patricks forms part of the larger Mountjoy Complex and is situated in a densely populated urban area.
Drugs and contraband get into prisons in a number of ways of which the following are the most common:-
• By being thrown over the perimeter walls into the yards.
• By being brought in by prisoners’ visitors.
• By being brought in by prisoners. This can be on their persons or internally.
• By being brought in by persons working in the prison or providing services to the prison.
I have been informed that the vast majority of drugs and contraband come in over the walls.”
Proof of the chronic drug problem in St. Pat’s.
“1.3 A combination of, inter alia, weak management, the culture in the prison, the
inattention to human rights norms, prisoners on protection and the prevalence
of drugs means that St. Patricks has not lived up to the mission statement of
the Irish Prison Service.
1.4 Paragraph 1.3 is not to be taken as an indictment of the vast majority of
officers who, in the course of their work, show respect to and
understanding of the prisoners in their care. They act in a professional
manner when at times circumstances can be very challenging.”
Proof that the vast majority of staff acted in a professional and caring manner showing respect to prisoners – the TINY minority should have been NAMED AND SHAMED AND SACKED – but the truth is that the regime was from management in the full knowledge of the Department of Justice.
The hard truth is that the staff worked in extremely tough conditions with angry violent drug addcited young men – and the had no support from management or the department of justice.
They are now taking the flack for the failures evn though the report has actually exonerated the VAST MAJORITY.
You are agreeing with me on the key point: “the TINY minority should have been NAMED AND SHAMED AND SACKED”
Have they been?
I’ve friends who are prison officers and they start out with great intentions and are brutalised by the system. It’s not a job I would wish on my worse enemy.
I know that most are decent, and that SOME are not. That’s what I’ve been saying.
“You are agreeing with me on the key point: “the TINY minority should have been NAMED AND SHAMED AND SACKED”
No, we are not agreeing – you tarnished all staff based on the report which clearly exonerated the vast majority.
“Have they been?”
No – and that is the KEY POINT – where are they? They have not been arrested, investigated, named or sacked and that brings me back to this part of my post which you conveniently ignored:
“but the truth is that the regime was from management in the full knowledge of the Department of Justice.”
The Judge didn’t like the regime, he alludes to “some” staff (tiny minority), yet you have to remember that this is based purely on allegations from prisoners – and I guess they wouldn’t lie eh?
Martin
I’ve worked there. Feel free to ask any questions ? As for feeling scared of staff what do you think a 17 year old is going to say ? These kids hate their parents, teachers, social workers guards and officers. There is cameras every where in the building. As for the report not one officer was asked his/her opinion on anything by the judge. So straight away it’s one sided. I can tell you a lot of faults with that building but abuse was not one if them. What you do with the 18 year old ? Mix him in the general population of the prison ? I can think of two if my head and one was there because he gave the guards info and the other was a pedophile. These guys would be killed if they mixed. As for feeling scared how do you think I feel working on a landing with 40 prisoners on my own ??? There is two sides to this. I have read the report and it upsets me that that people who don’t know me can judge me and compare me to the vile priests of this country. I have a kid for christs sake. I suggest you read the independent reports done by the visiting comitee. There an independent group! And can be quite critical and positive about prisons.
Minister for justice Alan shatter would not let theirs be released as it differed from the judges ??? He isn’t corrupt is he ??
And yes I agree with you anybody found abusing their position should be sacked. In a job that employs 3000 plus you think there won’t be bad eggs? Common sense will tell you that but that’s not exclusive to the prison service. The very people that run our country abuse their positions and I’m sure somebody in your job does. I work in an adult prison now and they are far easier places to work. I have nothing but respect for the staff who worked in
Pats, officers, teachers, social workers medical professionals etc etc these kids had the worst possible life’s and failed by all adults in there life’s and when 250 get together and add drugs thrust me it was one horrible place to work.
“In all of my reports to date I have reported on what I have found in prisons and
left comment to others. However, I would be in dereliction of my duty if I
did not say that locking up 16 and 17 year old children for 23 hours a day
offends against all that should be expected of a civilised society in the 21st
Century. “
Martin
I agree with that it’s absolutely brutal 23 hr lock up. I ask you is it ok to lock a 25 year old up for 23 hours a day ? It happens in every prison every day in this country … The prisoner places themselves on 23 hour lock up because they are afraid of other prisoners. They go there for protection reasons and sign on themselves. Ever seen what a gang of prisoners do to somebody their after ??? They slice them up like me and you would do to out Christmas diners. We are horribly understaffed. I have to go in and break these fights up with a risk of knowing it could be turned on me. We have established that the judge, yourself and myself disagree with 23 hour lock up especially for 16/17 year olds. Now can you suggest a solution ? Remembering you need government funding and buildings large enough ????
“In September 2009 I encountered a number of prisoners in individual
cells on accommodation landings. These prisoners had been involved
in a riot in the prison and had lost 56 days privileges and were in effect
in solitary confinement”
September 2009
“Four prison officers were assaulted at St Patrick’s Institution, after attempting to carry out a drugs search.
One of the officers received a broken nose, and the others cuts and bruising in the assault, which involved a group of prisoners.”
November 2009:
“ANOTHER full-scale riot has been narrowly averted at an Irish prison.
This time the location was St Patrick’s Institution for young offenders in Dublin, where violence erupted at the weekend.
Two rival gangs at the institution for young prisoners squared up to each other on Saturday night, the Herald has learned, resulting in a melee in the jail at 7.30 pm.
Hell
Prison officers trained in “control and restraint” tactics were deployed, while staff at Mountjoy were placed on stand-by, as fears mounted that the situation could deteriorate.
However, the situation was brought under control by local staff.
Prison sources said that members of two factions “beat the hell” out of each other before order was restored.
Individuals involved in the weekend violence are now likely to face disciplinary measures. According to sources, the most worrying aspect of the trouble is that the problems at St Patrick’s, which accommodates younger prisoners aged 16-21, now mirror what is happening in the wider prison population.
Last Saturday’s disturbances follow a riot at Mountjoy Prison in October, involving 70 inmates, which left prison officers injured.
St Patrick’s accommodates around 210 inmates, with one section for juveniles up to 18 and another for older youths, aged up to 21.
One in three of approximately 60 inmates aged 16-18 are “protection” prisoners, revealing the prevalence of the divisions created by gang culture within the lower and younger levels of crime in the capital.”
-” The Visiting Committee at St Patrick’s Institute for Young Offenders said the prison was being run in “an efficient, fair, safe and a humanitarian way”.”
This article and the implications in it (swallowed easily by the likes of Martin, who could have written the report himself as the prisoners would have seen him coming a mile off), is outrageous and as is often the case, the “journalist” hasn’t bothered to look at other reports or even sought to seek the other side for a fair and balanced piece.
You’re labouring under the misapprehension that I am not aware of the difficulty in dealing with these individuals. You’re running away with yourself in your assumptions and in interpreting what I said.
We are in Ireland. Famous for green fields, welcoming people and child abuse. We have had numerous scandals, and it is absolutely right to ask the questions about treatment of these children and young adults EVEN when they are crazy headcases who’d kill you as soon as look at you.
So I asked the question about inappropriate stripping. The report didn’t fill me with confidence about the diligence around log / journal keeping. The solution is more money. We can spend on tax breaks for the film industry and we can spend on the banks, we can spend tens of millions on consultants, this is far more important.
We can also have very regular checks to make sure that people, very often under extreme pressure, don’t forget that they’re still dealing with kids.
I completely understand that it’s a terrible job but I absolutely and utterly agree with shining a light on any institution in this country where children are held and on the systems that are in place to deal with them.
Yea, whatever Martin mind you don’t back into something there with all your back pedalling – you ought to be ashamed of yourself and the allegations on decent hard working staff.
Well Martin you referenced officers as perverts. As an officer I feel I have a right to defend myself. If I ever saw somebody committing a peverted act I would report them straight away as I’m sure you would in your profession and life in general. I totally agree with you they are kids and regardless of their crimes deserve a chance. I’m happy there gone from pats for various reasons. In my opinion pats failure was to have an adult regime implemented with kids and should of been looked at a long time ago. Hopefully oberstown can provide this. I ask you in reference to the report has the judge not failed them kids by not getting the guards involved ? Would genuinely like your opinion on that .
Also remember that prosecution is utmost last resort for these minors, and a number of steps have been taken to avoid that occurring .. Nothing vulnerable about these ‘kiddos’, more government expenditure needs to go towards caring for the elderly who have paid their taxes and actually contributed to this country rather than take away from it .
Martin, you are seriously ignorant. Children at 16 & 17? It’s people like you who ensure that these poor lads get away with violent crimes.
Wait and see how long it remains state of the art once the ‘kids’ get their hands on it…..
Little b astards don’t care for anything. Fine mammy and daddy for the trouble they get into. Stop it from Social welfare payments, watch petty crime drop. Hit the parents in the pocket. Where it hurts.
A lot of people with tight budgets get involved in petty crime due to their lack of income, if you stop money from their payment it would increase petty crime further and possibly lead to more serious offences
Plenty of people on tight budgets get by without resorting to crime.
Todd – I strongly disagree that tight budgets are an excuse or reason for crime. We were poor as churchmice growing up but knew that stealing or hurting anyone else was wrong. We were lucky to have a good moral foundation. And coming from a deprived area, or alcoholism in the family etc. are all contributing factors but not an excuse. Ultimately we must all take responsibility for our actions.
I’m know plenty of people do but there are also plenty of people don’t. Take for example a young person who is homeless, you’ll do anything to survive. They can’t get welfare because they don’t have an address and the don’t have an address because they don’t have welfare. What are the alternatives for people? Couple this with a multitude of other complex issues. Although you may be detached from this reality, this is a way of life for an ever increasing amount of young people in this fantastic state of ours
I’ve nephews who’d probably be on your list. Daddy is dead and mammy has done everything she can for them. BEGGING the eastern health board and HSE for psychiatric help after the dad died on his motorbike because the kids were not dealing with it well. Pleading with schools to help him because he has fairly severe OCD and learning problems. And now terrified because drug pushers are calling to the door saying he’ll be killed if he doesn’t pay them and that they’ll kill his brother or mother if he goes to the police.
I know what I’m talking about here and the idea that you can fix everything by heaping a fine on the person who has given ever waking breath to try to help is lazy thinking at best and deeply insulting at worst.
A lot of people on very large budgets get involved in much more serious crime—let us see them dealt with adequately before we do anything else
My gut reaction is to lock these little thugs up and throw the key down a deep drain. However the reality is that they end up back living in society when they get out, and I’d rather that at least some of them were in some way rehabilitated and less of a threat to decent people.
I’ve worked with a few young lads who’ve done short stints in it and the majority of them make a change when they came out of Pats. You still have the odd few who will continue about their ways but most seem to be shook by the experience
Good decision. A worthwhile institution seemed to lose its way and the reported treatment of children was sub-human at times. Whether the kids could ever be rehabilitated is a moot point. The institution was set up to try to chart a different course for kids in trouble and ended up failing us all badly. We are better than that.
Sub human? See will you have the same opinion when the teenager kicks the crap out of a pensioner you know or kills a dog, they deserve fuk all. Do it the American way. They get the basics for life. That’s all filth deserve.
“Do it the American way”
There are more black men now in Americas prison than were slaves in 1850. Why work towards a model that’s proven to be broken?
That attitude offends me as much as the actions of these kids. Young and stupid I can deal with, older and stupid is hard to excuse. Have a bit of humanity, man.
I read some sad and terrible stories about the place over the years so I’m glad it’s closed.
It’s sick, Denise. I hope we do better now.
I rather dreaded reading the comments to this article. The hang ‘em all gang are out, no surprise. They are kids for God sake, being “inappropriately stripped”. If this was a Catholic boys home the place would have been closed years ago. Get ready for a Prime Time 15 years from now. Yes, I know their behaviour is beyond unacceptable, but you can work with kids stopping them turning into adult criminals. But it’s harder if they are being “inappropriately stripped”.
David, don’t be to surprised by the “hang em high brigade” on thejournal, these same people think it’s ok for the Garda to beat the living day lights out people protesting against IW, if you treat people like dirt that’s exactly how they will behave.
David
When put in black and white print cutting clothes of looks shocking. The honest truth is you have a kid who has taken pills is now in a state of depression as the high wears off. He’s cutting himself ( self harm ) as he thinks how shit his life is. Parents big time let him down and he’s now stuck in poxy prison. He’s brought to a medical supervised cell where staff can keep an eye on him. He refuses this the whole time and refuses to take his clothes off and put on a poncho type garment. The reason the clothes where taken off is so he doesn’t hang himself. It’s a horrible situation and having worked there something I know all staff hated. But what was the alternative ? This practise was approved at the highest level and the ministers for justice know about it.
Jails are horribly under staffed and riddled with drugs. In all honesty because of this report people who where locked up in pats probably will be able to sue the state because it’s in black and white.
I have every sympathy for everyone who is let down by this broken system. That includes the staff, the public and the inmates.
As I have said previously – I know prison wardens, and I’ve seen them change over the years. I’d advise anyone to avoid that job.
People change Martin and working in a prison and the things you see has to change you. I hope the prison officers you know aren’t capable of the vile things people have suggested on this article like the acts of the Catholic Church committed on the vulnerable people of this country. That report was a one sided report and not a balanced account. I understand your opinions and respect them but like I said read the visiting comitees report. Would you not think it’s suspect when Alan shatter would not alow them to release it at the same time as the judges ??? Prison officers change because they witness the bad things that happen in a jail between prisoners and the high level of corruption at management level.
Derek that would be a case of a child being appropriately stripped. I do understand that dealing with offenders, even young ones, who may be a danger to themselves or others that sometimes has to happen. However, the reports into this place have made it clear that has not always been the case. There is good custodial practice and there is abuse.
Ok David
I agree with ya you have appropriate and inappropriate ” stripping ” . So the inappropriate stripping in the report should be brought to justice. Why haven’t they ? Serious question ? I’m a prison officer and would be horrified to think my work colleagues would in appropriately search prisoners. These cells where prisoners are placed all have cameras and are logged into journals so if a prisoner felt he was treated in appropriately it wouldn’t be hard to trace it back. Prisoners told the judge this in one on one interviews. As a judge and man behind this report did he not fail these kids by not getting the guards involved ??? Please answer my questions
No it wouldn’t David – it would be the regime as implemented by management and approved by the Dept. of Justice.
A friend of mine is a prison officer in Canada and I agree with you that it is an immensely important and hugely demanding job. Friends of Paul have been assaulted, traumatized and driven to all forms of desperation. This I understand. As for your question on justice, which I agree is appropriate and serious, I can’t answer. But, let us speak truth here, how often are people with the right backing held to account in Ireland?
David
Completely agree unfortunately in Ireland with the right backing a blind eye is turned. Officers are average workers who live average lives. Although a government Job that’s about it. Nobody on the prison floors has any backing from higher places. If only ! It might reflect in my wages !(joke) ! If the minister for children/justice could of sacked an officer they would have but the simple truth is this was a fictional report with no evidence to back it up. If a judge can’t find evidence it simply doesn’t exist. This government simply wanted the kudos that go with ending the practice of imprisoning minors. I for one am happy with this but disgusted how average working officers where left to take the blame.
All I have to say is that that Prison staff are well shot of them. These so called “Children” are now someone else’s problem.
When a few Dept of Education staff (those responsible for them now) are hospitalized dealing with them I wonder will the likes of Emily Logan etc be calling the those staff thugs, bullies etc.
Martin. You seem to have a problem with strip searches. Then maybe you can tell us how you would search say a 6 foot 15 stone 17 year old that has a shiv secreted between the cheeks of his backside. Or drugs sown into his underware?
*cough* (@mick)
http://www.thejournal.ie/oberstown-handcuffs-1954748-Feb2015/
“A CHILD WAS handcuffed while being restrained at a detention centre for children, an inspection found.
The inspection of Oberstown detention campus by the Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA) took place in autumn last year, and said reference was made to the young person’s physical strength, in a plan that mentioned the handcuffing incident.
The head of care told inspectors that there was no formal review of the incident but that they reviewed the CCTV, that 5-7 staff were involved and that the restraint was “all over the place”.
Not always safe
The inspection found that children were “not always safe” there, because best practice was not always implemented.
Children were, on occasion, separated from their peers in locked rooms for long periods of time and it was “not always apparent that other interventions had been tried”.
In the 12 months prior to the inspection, there were 758 occasions when children were on their own in their bedrooms, protection rooms or other rooms and HIQA said this “did not demonstrate that single separation was used as a last resort”.
Protection rooms were used in Trinity house, where a child was locked in small room without natural light, while in other units children spent time in single separation in locked time out rooms, in their bedrooms or in activity rooms
There were a variety of reasons for the use of single separation including threats of suicide, being under the influence of drugs or concerns relating to threatening behaviour.
One child was locked in a room for 83 hours and 45 minutes over four days.Another spent 23 hours and 30 minutes over a two day period in dingle separation, excluding sleeping time, because staff were concerned the young person had prohibited items and would not give them to staff. Shorter periods of single separation were also recorded, such as periods of 30 minutes when a child was smoking in school.”
Of course the staff are to blame, just as they were in Pat’s……………………………
I remember about 15 years ago having my arm broken by one of the vulnerable young boys with a sweeping brush because he slipped on a floor that was being mopped by another prisoner and that prisoner laughed at him.
I also remember being off work for 11 weeks in plaster because of that.
I also remember the CICT paying compensation of 11 weeks wages and an amount for pain and suffering because one prisoner laughed at another.
I presume you know that the CICT is funded by the taxpayer (you).
Vulnerable young boy at his best behaviour here and YOU pay for the consequences.
For there to be charges .there has to be proof not hearsay from a one sided offering from someone who is incarcarated by the state . If you knew the facts behind the judges report and how the information was gleaned you would know the ‘children ‘ took him for a fool and spin him yarns that would be best sellers . In the report of the visiting commitee tells a diffrent story (which you obviously havent read ) you have no idea of any of the prison rules regulations and controls .dont talk about things you dont know about .
Your a keyboard warrior and are happy to spout your accusations from behind your screen . Very quick to judge without the full facts ..i just hope that there isnt a citizen depending on your fair and unbiased verdict …
Niall, because prisoners officers or people in authority in this country would never tell lies or cover up abuse never ever did it happen come out darkness Niall.
So now prison staff are not only child abusers, but they’re covering up child abuse?
Outrageous Martin and I am sure your friends will thank you for that.
Unfortunately Martin decided to jump in with an uneducated opinion on the subject matter with a “down with this sort of stuff ” attitude and when his opinions where challanged he kept referencing the problems but had no answers to the problems. As mick Jordan said we as staff on the floor level are best of with out children in our workplace . There is still 13 17 year olds in w/field so hopefully they’ll be moved to obberstown soon to. I have nothing but sympathy and respect for the staff there.
God bless them ….
Yep, fully agree Derek, it’s easy to cast blame onto staff when reports are presented in the way the journalist decided to present it – it sounds so bad when you mention “kids”.
I know plenty of prison staff, not just officers and I can tell you that I take my hat off to them. I have also been involved in other studies in the general area of prisons and what is clear to me is that the drugs issue seems to be a side issue and not the main issue.
Pat’s was utlilised in the 80′s which coincidentally was when the drugs problem exploded in Dublin. The truth is that no-one knew then how to handle the out of control teens and they still don’t.
Pat’s was a temporary solution which was the best solution – see the article I posted about Oberstown in Feb this year.
These “children”, for the most part, have already been through the system, the Gardai know them by name since they are 9 or 10, their parent’s have begged for their children to be taken into care as they can no longer deal with them and most often have other younger children in the house that they don’t want affected or following in the footsteps of their older brother (rarely sister).
They come from all walks, but mostly working class Dublin, I have sat in court and seen working mums cry at judges to help them.
By the time a “child” gets to Pat’s it is not unusual for them to have 20 or 30 convictions (or more) and they have burnt all their bridges with family and the childrens court – incarceration is the only option.
I also recall being present in court when a 17 year old “kid” appealed his 6 month prison sentence (at the expense of the taxpayer) and a Garda from Crumlin providing statistics to the court to show that since the “kids” incarceration, crime in his area had decreased by 60%.
The staff I know who have been left injured after assaults, some unable to return to work ever – and yet we have one sided views which imply serious crimes by staff in the prison – where they have been given no platform to challenge these allegations – disgusting.
I beleive that the staff are delighted that the problem has been moved, they did fear that it would take the murder of one of them for something to change – now as Mick has said – it’s someone else’s problem.
Patlyndo
Thanks for that , you obliviously have a great understanding of the realitys of modern Ireland and how bad it can be in certain parts. I worked in pats for a few years and it was the most stressful time if my life. I know people can say quit the job but when you have a family to provide for you have to accept these challanges. Working now in an adult prison is very differnt to pats and a lot less stressful. As mick said it’s somebody else’s problem and I’m thankful that prison officers don’t have to face it no more. The very fact is it’s still a problem. The likes of Martin etc can tallk all they want about things they no nothing of because that’s easy. The problem is still the problem it’s just been passed to somebody else.
Some really uninformed comments on here today. Such a shame that people still believe everything they read.
Time to get the violin out…..
It’s seen as fully acceptable that the people of this country are being robbed everyday by this government it’s super quangos, banks & developers and now we are going to have to give our PPSN to the Garda in case we owe an €80 fine, yet NAMA were able to write off €300m for developers and Bernard McNamara gets to build IW’s new HQ after leaving behind €1.7 billion in debts, but then these people wear suits not tracksuits so it’s ok.
The comments on this are appalling theses are children …. ” lock them up and throw the key down a deep drain” …. Sure that worked out well for us in ireland with the madaline laundries Irelands biggest discrace and we have people here with still no compassion im embarresed to call myself irish when i read comments like this …
They didn’t end up in St. patricks for J walking . When you suffer at the hands of some these little shits then you might change your tune. I have no problem if it was a dog eat dog world but if I even looked in the wrong direction at one of these tossers they would run up to the Gardai.
Jay
St pats was a prison for 16/17 year olds. It practised the same practises as adult prisons. I know because I’ve worked in both and currently still do. St pats was covered in cameras and what went on daily can be seen. The visiting committee ( an independent group ) put out reports on prisons every year. I honestly suggest you read them as they are unbiased in their views. I personally feel pats should no longer be used for 16/17 year olds as it can’t offer the activities needed to stimulate 16/17 year olds but not because of a mag laundries type situation was happening.
It’s only my word but I promise no abuse occurred in there. The regime was the same as adults and that’s where the problem was. I suggest you do some research on the subject and not just read one article on the journal before making your mind up. Ask yourself the question why has nobody been sacked? It’s 2015 and majority of the same staff are still working there. It’s because there good at their job.
@derek. I knew a young lad who went there in the early 80′s. He came back home in great form, He loved it there. He came back telling all us other kids how much fun he had there swimming every day etc. and said how much he wanted to go back. Even at that young age I wondered if it was a good idea that a place you went for doing wrong, was much more exciting than being at home. Saying that now, I don’t think he was ever ‘reformed’ by it. I heard years later that he was in prison in england at one stage :/ .
Fortunately I can’t tell ya about prisons in the 80′s as I was only a wee boy myself. I guess this lad was spinning you a yarn, while it might of been better than home life I doubt swimming lessons where on offer. From what I hear prisons where more disciplined in the 80′s than they are today. As for reform I don’t think prisons will ever reform a person. They do however provide a break from the harsh realitys of their lives. 3 meals, school, doctors dentists etc etc etc
I suggest you read that comment again Jay Thompson. You referenced a comment and left out everything after “however..,”: he was actually saying the opposite to what you infer.
We did a school tour years ago to this prison and mount joy. The women’s prison was actually rather nice and female prisoners could walk around etc. they even openly engaged with us students. The men’s mount joy was one of the scariest places I have ever been too. I will never forget the horrible smell either. Ugh. We didn’t see a single prisoner as the men were only allowed out for something small like an hour a day or something. The boys prison wasn’t suitable for much tbh.
Regardless of what crimes a person has committed, a prison officer should not be allowed to bully and harass them / deny them visits etc. at the end of the day, these lads are in state care, they are minors and the state shouldn’t be taking their duty to care for them lightly.
I don’t believe the prison camps should be a holiday camp but also should not be a bullying ground. Maybe we should look at ways to reduce the amount of prisoners who reoffend. Stopping drugs coming into the prisons would be great too, we were told by the prison officers that babies would have heroin in their nappies to get it into the prisons. Sheer madness.
Claire just to clarify some of your comments…Prisoners in the male Mountjoy prison General population have at least 8 hours of out of cell activity they can avail of..yard, gym, school, workshops…It is not a prison camp..Secondly the staff that work in these institutions do so under very trying conditions..as the media has reported “for once” over the last number of weeks..Yes.young people have been let down..but it’s not the prisons that have failed them..its the system..social welfare, child protection. .etc..Prison is and should be the last resort..Unfortunately that seems was the only recourse.
You didn’t see any prisoners in the male prison as you are only allowed to conduct tours in the male prisons when prisoners are locked up at dinner time women have a much more relaxed regime
Long and short of it, it’s a prison, it’s not supposed to be nice. It’s supposed to make the little scambags never want to end up in such a place again.
It is their fault, if they behaved themselves then this wouldn’t have happened to them?
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