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Updated: 6.23pm
A GOVERNMENT REDRESS scheme for survivors of symphysiotomy has been urged to address the concerns of women who applied for compensation.
The scheme posted a note on its website in February advising applicants that they had until the end of the month to request that the medical documents they submitted for assessment be returned to them.
The notice said the scheme would assume applicants who have not made contact by then are happy to have their documents – other than original birth and baptism certificates – shredded when its work is complete.
Survivors who spoke out against the move said the scheme should have gone to greater efforts to ensure applicants see the return of their documents – some of which they say are original, decades-old hospital and GP files.
Survivors of Symphysiotomy (SOS), a group representing women subjected to the controversial procedure, also objected to the records being held for collection at the Department of Health.
Marie O’Connor of SOS previously told TheJournal.ie that several applicants to the scheme were involved in litigation against the state and that the arrangement could potentially disadvantage them in upcoming legal action.
The scheme later moved the deadline to last Sunday and said all applicants would instead be sent a form by post on which they can indicate their preference.
An update posted on its website this week thanked women who responded to the letter.
“When the scheme has completed its work, it will return or confidentially shred the documentation you furnished to the scheme strictly in accordance with your wishes,” the notice said.
Outstanding claims
O’Connor yesterday called on the government to intervene in the dispute, telling Oireachtas members at a briefing that fewer than one third of nearly 750 survivors had responded to the “shred or return” letter sent out by the scheme assessor.
O’Connor added in a statement that applicants were not in a position to fully consent to a decision on the matter while their applications were still being assessed.
“Consent must be freely given to be valid. Survivors are being asked for consent to the destruction or return of their records while their claims are under scrutiny and their payments outstanding.”
Consent given under duress is invalid.
SOS maintains that documents were entrusted to the scheme on the understanding that they would eventually be returned by post.
The terms of the scheme state that “the assessor shall, where reasonably possible, arrange for the return to the applicant or her solicitor” of any submitted documents.
The assessor also has the power, however, to “arrange for the destruction of confidential documentation and information whether in documentary or electronic form” once the scheme is concluded.
Symphysiotomy was carried out on an estimated 1,500 women in Ireland up to the 1980s, long after being discontinued in other jurisdictions.
The controversial operation involved cutting the cartilage of a pregnant women’s pelvic bone – or breaking the bone itself in some extreme cases – to widen the birth canal.
Many women subjected to the procedure were left with long-term medical difficulties including incontinence and chronic pain.
The government established a redress scheme to compensate survivors following years of campaigning.
Women injured during the operation have been able to claim for one of three categories of funding: €50,000, €100,000 and €150,000.
‘It’s their choice’
A spokesperson for the Department of Health said in a statement that all documents submitted by women were copies.
The statement said: “No original documents are being dispensed with.
It is also very important to emphasise that it is up to each woman to decide as an individual whether she wants the documents returned to her or confidentially disposed of. This is being done in line with data protection laws and the right to privacy.
“Many women may not want others looking at their personal papers under any circumstances, now or ever. It’s their choice.”
It added that 576 applications have been submitted to the scheme and that more than 350 awards totalling over €26 million have already been made.
“No woman was obliged to apply for payment, or must accept any offer made to them. Every woman is completely free to pursue her case in court if she prefers,” the statement read.
The scheme did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
- with reporting by Órla Ryan
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The mechanics in there must go through at least 20 cars a day. Surely that’s a conveyor belt for the virus, and mad risky for the the inspector and then the person driving home after the test!
@Alan Biddulph: Pray, hope and don’t worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer- Padre Pio.
@John Devaney: or get the testers to wear disposable gloves.
@Robbie Doyle: Or pray to Padre Pio for disposable gloves. If anyone knows about having to throw your gloves away it’s him.
@Alan Biddulph: They should wash the car first, the inside of the car…
@Alan Biddulph:
NCT is an odd example of an “essential service”. Are they daft?
@brendan fitzsimons: Padre Pio is getting an awful bad name for himself here when he’s had nothing to do with this. Leave the poor fella out of this!
@John Devaney: will you please just stop with your bible babble.
@Ciaran Daly: Its very Ned Flanders
@brendan fitzsimons: I would if you considered the amount of cars on the road that are grossly under maintained and in turn potentially leading to more accidents and injury.
@Robbie Doyle: They do wear disposable gloves, blue ones. What we don’t see is whether or not they actually change them in between tests. I’m due a test on May 1st, think i’ll cancel.
@Alan Biddulph: incredibly in most centres the lifts don’t work so you still have to come back later to get a certain
@Euro is Dead: get a very
@John Devaney: Who’s this Pio bloke then?
@Ciaran Daly: you may not share his views or even respect them, but insulting him is puerile. A little tolerance and respectful interaction at this time wouldn’t go amiss. Hope everyone stays safe and well regardless of their beliefs, or lack of.
@John Devaney: crock of shite. Tell that to the thousands who have already died
@John Devaney: current evidence shows god is merciless. The suffering and loss being experienced by people and their families in Italy and Spain where there are usually alot of prayers said especially by the older people who have spent most of their lives in churches at least once a week is all the proof we need of a god with no mercy
@David Kelly: and doesnt exist
@John Devaney: Pray, but don’t worry ? Because it’s the worry that’s useless ?
@Cork Truck Driver: .they should also wear masks and sanitise car before returned to owner.
@brendan fitzsimons: it is essential because it is illegal to use a car in a public place without one.
Yesterday the UK gave everyone a blanket 6-month extension to their MOT’s.
If they want to shut down here, they’ll have to do the same, and issue a blanket extension.
Across Ireland there is an issue with the car lifts in NCT Centres. And the upshot of this is you bring your car for its NCT, they test what they can then give you a receipt, not a certification. Then will call you back again at some unknown time in the future to complete the test and give you your certification.
So, it takes 2 visits now to get your vehicle tested.
This is highly irresponsible and until they fix their car lifts then all tests should be postponed. And arguably, during this ongoing emergency, a review into how this is even an essential service really needs to happen.
@Garren Bellew: absolutely agree. It’s a pure joke! The whole thing should scrapped.
@Garren Bellew: The MOT in the north cancelled all tests and deferred the expiry date to a later date when all lifts be operational.
It’s unfair on the testers and the motorists, this is unacceptable and avoidable.
Just hit the pause button and make allowances.
@Justice Mickey: Worry not about the actions of others. We need to focus on our own actions at this time
“We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop.” Mother Theresa of Calcutta.
@John Devaney: Quiz. Name the Albanian who over saw the slow suffering deaths of 100′s of thousands in the 20th century!!!!
@Padraig Mac Aodha: nct ?
@John Devaney: mother Theresa turn out she was a nice person didn’t it
@John Devaney:
Don’t know what I’d do without your soothing words John.
@John Devaney: Oul Mother Theresa would have had all the answers. God bless her soul.
@John Devaney: Mother Theresa, otherwise known as Hell’s Angel.
@John Devaney:
I never knew that Mother Theresa was an NCT tester…
What Venter is She in ? ;)
A racket that should be scrapped
@Peter Leonard: bring back the good old days of cars held together with baling twine. What has the NCT ever done for us?
@Ronan McKeon: in reality in the good old days, not that many were held together with baling twine…
What the NCT has done for us? Well it has increased the financial burden on motorists for very little in return…
If the same number og people engaged in the NCT checking cars, were instead out checking roads and issuing failure notices and penalties on local authorities and county councils for potholes, bad road surfaces and lack of road maintenance and making them put it right, then the overall improved road network would mean most of the car issues, which are caused by driving on the awful roads would be eliminated….
All centres should be closed and tests suspended, without consequences, until such time as this current crisis has passed.
The wife was in the Little Island centre in Cork a few days back. She asked what precautions they were taking and was told just gloves. No masks, no wipes for steering wheels etc. She knows a tester and when she spoke to her about it she said that when they complained to their manager about the lack of protection he actually told them to “man up”.
@Football in the Groin: my God! Awful attitude from him. I find them obnoxious anyway and filthy! A haven for the virus for sure
Close it down you clowns ,,putting lives at risk ,the same goes for the sites lets cop on.
Got mine done Tuesday in Kells and lifts still not working and now must return again. This is needless in a time they wish to reduce risk, if lifts are working I’d say fair enough but double trip is a bit daft.
MOT in the UK have received a 6 months extension.
I spray the streering wheel the the door handles the gear stick the keys the seat belt with disinfectant every evening, and stay the fook away from shops and money and people and the nct will break all my hard work to not get infected ps it’s being cancelled in uk
The lift arms are broken in kilkenny nct for past 3 months. Cars pass temporarily and have to return on a later date when the lift arms are back working to finalise the test to get a pass. Shocking !!!
#stayathome they say but get your NCT for tax revenue reasons ??
To much money to be made. Disgrace..
FFG way…
They have an opportunity to close now and get their lifts fixed, instead of all the farthing around and having to attend twice to finish the test.
Two weeks ago I was mildly concerned about my nct. Now I dont give a fck. They can wait.
@Louis Jacob: I was the same until I heard that you may not be covered by insurance without a valid nct. The guards might make allowances in the circumstances but insurance companies will use it as an excuse not to pay out.
@Pascal Coleman: You are covered. That rumour has been going since the dawn of time.
@Pascal Coleman: no they won’t: that is complete fiction. Quit spouting nonsense.
Under the Road Traffic Act, where a Certificate of Insurance has been issued, the insurer MUST legally honour it. No if’s, but’s or maybe’s.
However, what can happen is that if you do have a crash – and then ONLY if the vehicle is found to be defective – the insurance company can then sue you to recoup monies paid out on your behalf (to 3rd parties). The NCT does not form part of your contract with the insurer.
Had my nct last week the tester told me the morning before there was 7 old boys sitting next to each other… close them
I’m bringing my car in this weekend as it’s expiring next week, however if it needs any work done my mechanics has been closed for the last week or two and won’t be opening soon. Surely this is a silly thing to keep going at the moment.
Test due tomorrow, trying to contact NCT hq since Monday cos I’m in bed with a bug (was on the CV waiting list) and unable to either prepare or drive the car to the centre. Trying to reschedule online attracts a fine, so emailed a query – no response. Tried calling them – phone line just rings out. Is it any wonder that people are not turning up? Wouldn’t it show a little consideration if they put some advice on what to do if you’re indisposed, on their website, and/or waived the fine until things return to normal
Of course they are $$$
@Billy Walsh: $$$ indeed
They should shut down and leave people alone. They’re dirty places with no sanitation
Stay in your Cars for gods sake !
@John Devaney: will you knock off the Jesus talk
@Roughan Bass: I’d say he’s great craic if he could just get out to meet people.
@John Devaney: oh Figo off John
@John Devaney: it’s John 3:7 that you need , – A man must be born again ow water and the Holy Spirit …….
Would it help if I piss on the drivers seat??
@Oliver Jumelle: That should be fine just cough on it.
Parasites go home!
@John Devaney: u ok john ?
@John Devaney: back under you bridge there now Johm please. I have news for ya there is no god
@John Devaney: Please stop with that biblical drivel..
@John Devaney:
Not a lot of tolerance here for your calming words John.
“Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
Luke: 23:34
My wife had her NCT last week.
Mechanics wearing disposable gloves but not changing from vehicle to vehicle. All using same pen to sign in. Most People on top of each other in que to sign
Very very irresponsible. Sent email to NCT but no reply..
Advice-stay away from it.
I am waiting to get the test finalised by having to return to the test centre:
There are people in the same position all over the country.
I posted the following into the “Comments section” of the Journal:
Regarding the postponed underbody test: I need to go back again, how can I?
They won’t answer the phone, they won’t respond to Emails.
They are typically in efficient money grabbers with no manners or decency.
Shut them down.
Got mine tested last week and person behind counter insisted in handling my drivers licence even though he had the same gloves on all day. Absolute joke
@Chris Matthews: did you follow him all day long checking he was wearing the same gloves. You’re talking rubbish otherwise.
Why does the Minister for Transport not make a decision about this situation, I imagine he hasn’t much more to do at the moment.
Madness for these Places to still be operational. So easy to pass on covid 19 in those conditions.
I’ve let my retest lapse. Fk that I’m not having someone sit in my car and cough!
Regarding the postponed underbody test: I need to go back again, how can I?
They won’t answer the phone, they won’t respond to Emails.
They are typically in efficient money grabbers with no manners or decency.
Shut them down.
If nobody turns up they will close. Absolutely crazy that they are still open.workers lives at risk.
Yes. it must be unsafe. Tester must get in and out of car.. …leaving potential traces on dashboard steering wheel etc…
I have this concern with upcoming nct…
postpone all ncts tests and close the service
authorities to give benefit of doubt to vehicle owner meanwhile
@Noname !: Definitely unsafe..Shut all NCT centres until normality reruns.
* don’t cough
Anyone in vulnerable categories would be well advised to stay clear of NCT centres.
The risks are extremely high. Not worth it.
The fact is that someone would be in my car that have a high exposure to possible contamination (even if they take perceptions). Even nurses and doctors are not immune , why would NCT staff be any different.
I didn’t turn up for my nct. I am 74 with a number of underlying conditions and I was not going to break isolation in order to get my car tested. It took me most of a day to get through to the nct since I was determined that they would not charge me an exttra 22 euro. Keeping these centres open at this time is ridiculous and there should be a directive about it to remove worry about late tests.
the ringing their number 01 4135994…
hangs up..not even a voice mail
The crowd that run the NCT, APPPLUS, are a terrible organization to deal with in my opinion. The do not care about vehicle safety or customers, all they care about is the money. Some of the testers do a great job and are dedicated to their role. Looking at the website there is little info, and any info is always hard to find. It does not say, for example, that if you cannot attend a test for Covid-19 reasons whether you still have to pay the “FINE”. If it did it may save people calling and emailing their already under pressure cust service. Also it says that you can pay with cash on the day, in effect you cannot. To pay with cash you must call cust service, they will then offer you a small fraction of the test times that are available to card/online bookers an in effect discriminating a cash user. Some centers have not fixed the lift issue and you would have to return a second time to complete the test – when some users have to take time off and/or travel large costly distances to the center you would think they would mention this in their announcements. They said it takes 2 days to replace a faulty lift, now would be a prime time to get all of this addressed with the country in semi-lockdown.
For NCTS news see here
https://www.ncts.ie/1115
For NCT manual, often hidden away
https://www.ncts.ie/media/1027/nct_manual_july_2018_v4.pdf
Money paid, car passed limited test but lifts not working so a second visit required when lifts fixed. How much should I charge them for a re-test ?
No way will any tester sit in or touch my car in the current climate. Put the whole ” service ” on hold until it is safe to resume.
What part of “stay at home” does the government understand when it comes to these virus pits
More people who don’t care. Profit before peoples health.
It proves that NCT is merely about money.
Ignore them.
Too risky, especially for the vulnerable.
Your health is much more important than your cars.
my car service has just been cancelled. how can you get your car fixed if it fails an nct but garages are closed ?
Phone is ringing out for 45 minutes total disgrace no answers to emails
What is going on there
Got mine retested yesterday after failing the initial. 28 euro, do you think I was able to tap? Nope. Do you think I was told to leave the windows down or the door ajar for the tester? Nope. (I did anyway) . Like most gov institutions in this country. FOS
@Roberto González: pay online and u won’t have to handle your card. Complaining for the sake of it.
Got my car past the nct bar the visual inspection underneath it. They can wait till this passes over before I’ll bring it back. Not risking my health or my family or the welfare of the inspector and his/hers family either.
have your say