Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
SURVIVORS OF SYMPHYSIOTOMY gathered outside Leinster House this afternoon to protest against the government delaying a Bill which will set aside the legal bar to justice for victims.
The Statute of Limitations (Amendment) Bill 2013 passed Second Stage on 17 April by an unanimous vote but no further action has been taken since.
The women, many of whom are in their 70s and 80s, want to see the legislation presented so they can take their fight to the Irish courts. The law will see the Statue of Limitations set aside for a period of 12 months to allow the victims to seek compensation from the State.
Symphysiotomies were performed in Irish hospitals throughout the 20th century as an alternative to the more common and safer Caesarean section. The surgery involved breaking the woman’s pelvis during childbirth (widening it by up to 3.5cm). The Survivors of Symphysiotomy (SOS) group claims that the operations were carried out without prior knowledge or consent “mainly for religious reasons, by obstetricians who were opposed to family planning.”
Ireland’s final symphysiotomy was performed in Our Ladies of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda in 1984.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, the oldest survivor of the group, Margaret Dutton, said she had come to the demonstration to demand an apology from the government.
The 91-year-old’s symphysiotomy was carried out at Holles Street hospital on 30 October 1949, days after being admitted.
“I went up and down the stairs on my bottom for about three months after he was born. [He being her son Joseph who attended the protest with her.]
I kept thinking how did my mother do this seven times? She then caught me and asked me what I was doing? I didn’t know anything different had happened.
Joseph says his mother found it very difficult to talk about her experience until now but that they wanted to attend the rally today. He brought his birth certificate with him, which noted that although his mother had a symphysiotomy, the labour was registered as “normal”.
“We were very fortunate to get the records,” he added, as many have been destroying in the intervening decades.
At the other end of the age bracket, Maria Kelly is the youngest survivor of the group. She was just 19 years old when she gave birth to her daughter in 1973. Her second pregnancy a year later also ended with a symphysiotomy. Her doctor was the now-infamous Michael Neary.
“It was woeful. It was barbaric,” she recalls. “We carried the scars for the rest of our lives.”
(YouTube: SineadOCarrollTJ)
It is 51 years since Teresa Devoy underwent the procedure in Kilkenny. She talks about her ongoing problems of incontinence and walking difficulties:
(YouTube: SineadOCarrollTJ)
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin convened the all-party group which tabled the Bill. He said the Walsh Report into symphysiotomy which is due soon is not relevant to the women’s current situation.
“It is important that these women have the opportunity to choose in what course they want to take their case,” he told TheJournal.ie.
In a later statement, he added: “This legislation is of a very urgent nature. Many of the victims of this horrific procedure are very elderly. Time is, most certainly, of the essence. I am calling on the Oireachtas Committee on Justice and Minister Alan Shatter to facilitate the Statute of Limitations (Amendment) Bill 2013 now, to allow for its swift progress through Committee and Report and Final Stages, preferably before the Summer Recess, and to finally allow victims the opportunity to take their cases to the courts if they so wish.”
Many of the women present at the Dáil today say they have no confidence in the Walsh Report.
“The first part tried to emphasise that we were undernourished and the doctors said we were unable to undergo C-Sections,” explains Teresa Devoy. “Nothing could be further from the truth in my case. They did not speak with any of the women. I have no confidence in waffle.”
Can someone tell the Bishop it’s 2019
@Melina Roberts: Or to go F himself. Christ obsessed clowns.
@Melina Roberts: My niece goes to Junior’s yoga in Blackrock and has done her self confidence and happiness the world of good. I think it does her a significant amount more good physically and mentally, than having her head bowed, fearful of a 2000 year old fairy tale. Maybe religion being in the school in the first place is the real problem here.
@Tom Cullen: well said, completely agree. These clergymen are draconian in their beliefs and are still trying to force it on us.
@Tom Cullen: ‘That would be an ecumenical matter’
@Melina Roberts: can someone tell the bishop to keep his outdateed opinions to himself the church has no place in modern education system
@Melina Roberts:
“A Catholic bishop has said he is establishing a “delivery ministry” group of people who will be attempting to rid people of “the devil” through exorcism.
Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan says he has received “several requests” from people to help deal with evil forces and one priest in his diocese of Waterford and Lismore is about to start training in the practice of exorcism.
Dr Cullinan warned against the possibility of users of reiki and other healing methods being exposed to evil spirits.”
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/the-exorcists-bishop-setting-up-team-to-combat-evil-forces-1.3657796
@Melina Roberts: The truth never goes out of fashion.Bishop is spot on.
@Robert Dungan: what truth?
Those bible thumpers would rather scare kids with nonsense about fire and brimstone and shame them about their sexuality while covering up for twisted perverts who have taken many other kids innocence.
That evil woman hating cult, the Catholic Church, is thankfully finished in this country and the sooner they realise it and get their corrupt hypocritical fingers out of our children’s education the better.
The practices of yoga and mindfulness have PROVEN benefits for mental and physical health rather than been based on man made fairy tails designed to control the population and subjugate women.
@Melina Roberts: religion has no place in schools either, All state funded schools should be religious free, if parents want to indoctrinate their children into a faith then send them to a sunday school.
Pedophilia & abuse against children is a not part of the bible yet many of this bishop’s organisation practiced it to great extent. This fella needs to stay out of parental decisions.
@Melina Roberts: thats the problem Melina,This is Satans era,the world needs to pray the Rosary, the world is crumbling with sin.
@Anon.me: and who exactly are these people that will be making the decisions on who needs to be exorcised or riddled of the devil(your reference not mine) weird and worrying
@Anon.me: Quotations lifted from the same Irish Times website article
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/the-exorcists-bishop-setting-up-team-to-combat-evil-forces-1.3657796
“This is something that has to be done in secret because you don’t let these people’s names out and they are going to houses where people maybe have been involved in some kind of new age thing or some kind of seance or that kind of thing and, unfortunately, they’ve opened up a door to an evil force, Satan.”
Strong girl
He said he had never seen an exorcism himself. “But I have certainly felt the presence of evil,” he said. “I remember one particular priest, a friend of mine who I knew who was involved in one particular case, and it was a girl, a professional girl, young, who came with her mother, and there were four men, kind of rugby types, to hold her down in the chair, such strength she had.
“The priest had warned the four guys beforehand: just make sure you’ve gone to Confession and one guy didn’t go to Confession, one of the four, and the girl with a voice that wasn’t hers, it was a male voice coming out of her, actually called out the sins of your man, the guy who hadn’t gone to Confession,” the bishop said.
(My comment: It sounds like the cops should find out who these people are.)
Religion shouldn’t be in schools either. It’s someone’s believes versus another.
@RJ: apparently we don’t need to baptise to get into local schools anymore neither, but the reality tho is very very different
@Bleedin Rapid: not anymore. Catholic Schools can no longer discriminate on religious grounds when it comes to enrolment. Unfortunately minority religious schools can do so.
@RJ: agree! I didn’t baptise my children, yet many still use the excuse of school, but admit they want the “day out” for communion and confirmation.
Yes, we should definitely not learn anything that encourages us to know & understand our own selves, & others better, be compassionate, or to improve our mental health & quality of living. I mean who, on Earth, would benefit from these fundamental life skills?.
@Ann Experiment: well, the bishop was saying that the way to achieve those things is through the Catholic faith and contemplation of God. Given that his letter was sent to Catholic schools, it’s within his remit to do this. Note that he didn’t say there was anything wrong with yoga etc, just that Catholic schools should be teaching Catholic spirituality. I’m not Catholic but there’s not much to be getting worked up about in his letter
@De20: other than the fact the Catholic Church has a stranglehold on most of the schools and many people don’t have an option but to subject their children to its nonsense.
@De20: His church should have nothing to do with children’s education anymore. Still thinks they have the power to tell people what to do, get lost, your time, like the dinosaurs is over.
@Ivan Connolly: still not an issue to do with his letter or his right to send it
@Ivan Connolly: Its quite simple then, why does the Irish State not opeate all the schools then, its easy to blame the Catholic Church on this one, and yes I went to one and yes the religious side of it was ridiculous, but only had to bear 3 1 hr religion classes every week, there was nothing religious other than that. The real issue here is the Irish State was and is quite happy to offload the cost and hassel or running some schools to the Catholic Church
@Gus Sheridan: History tells us that his church should never have been allowed near children under any circumstance.
@Gowon Geter: I think you’ll find “the cost and the running” of Catholic schools is effectively borne by the state.
@De20: not much to get worked about but plenty to ignore.
@Gowon Geter: every public school should be under secular state control.
@De20: u really need to be a Catholic to understand u need to have grown up in a catholic household it was allowed affect nearly everything.
@Squiddley Diddley: really? why are parents asked to make voluntary contribs? & all the other fundraisers
@eileen boles: cos the entire cost isn’t?
@GrahamMManning: so the church shouldn’t make a contrib?
@eileen boles: they should contribute every school and land with it that they own…for starters.
@Gowon Geter: The church don’t run them. They own the properties. They should be given back as restitution for all the atrocities the church have committed.
Bishop Brennan up to no good as usual.
@Joe Shea: Someone needs to give Bishop Cullinan a kick up the arse.
@Donal Riley: form a line…..
Fair enough. Drop the church from the schools so!
This is why the church should have no part in the education of our children. Their wellbeing is of less importance than their indoctrination as far a this bishop is concerned. Terrified that they will continue to haemorrhage believers in the particular form of delusion.
@Ivan Connolly: if Christ himself came back he’d March every single one of them Pope in all into the Tiber. Bunch of Chinese whispering hierarchy ass lickers with deluded ideas of there own importance
Waterford Whispers?
@Liam Byrne: my first thought too!
@Liam Byrne: yeah seeing as the Journal’s journeyman journo’s lift a lot of their news stories from elsewhere, it wouldn’t be a surprise if this was a WW one they thought was real !
@Jazz Buckler: the funny thing about news stories is that the main ones are the same across all platforms, that’s what makes it news.
Bishop Cullinan said that “yoga is not of Christian origin” or Christmas or Easter, both have pagan origins.
@thejamer:
spot on,
Christmas and most things people link with it have zip to do with the Christian faith.
Yule logs, christmas tree’s, gift giving, idea of a person giving gifts all pre-date Christian “traditions”
You know what’s worse for children than yoga and mindfulness? Abusing them.
@Alison Murray: nail on head.
I wonder how many letters he has written on that subject.
@Alison Murray: let’s be fair they’re not supposed to abuse kids. Some of them just do that off their own bat. But yeah kids are way better off with a bit of meditation.
@Davis Payne: some do off their own bat. And then the rest cover up and defend them.
Why anyone buys into this cult is beyond me. Particularly women, why would a woman support an organisation that believes she is inferior to men and not worthy to be a full member? No self respecting woman should set foot inside a Catholic Church.
Hello, this is the 1950′s calling
@Terry Tibbs: Yeah hi this the 2000s have you got our money or what.
@Terry Tibbs: 1950s? I think you’re out by a few centuries. 1450s more like!! This bishop will be burning witches next
@Dean Anderson: ooohhh… I best go hiding my 10 cats and the athame. Not that they come after me for practicing the craft … LOL
@Terry Tibbs: muppet
Poor chap seems to be living in a different time zone to most of us.
So I see 1 dinosaur survived ….
Ignore him. This isn’t the first time he has come out with something like this.
@Ed: Not so easy to ignore when he wants to indoctrinate other people’s children.
They dont do themselves any favours with the nonsense they come out with..
Can we take a moment to acknowledge that we won’t find a funnier headline today than this one. I thought I was on Waterford whispers
The solution here is simple. If people don’t want to be subjected to these backward views stop entering your children into the church via baptism and ignoring the ludicrousness of many of their fundamental tenets just for the purpose of a ‘day out’ (communion, confirmation,weddings, funerals).
If more people took a stand and didn’t blindly baptise it would weaken the churches grip on our state funded primary schools.
Join. The. Dots.
@Fr Ed O’Toole: Totally agree with you, people just seem to go through the motions without actually considering what they are doing.
@Fr Ed O’Toole: I agree completely but unless everyone chooses against baptism there will always be kids who will feel left out when it comes time for communion and confirmation. That’s the issue IMO
@Fr Ed O’Toole: I choose not to baptise my children and iv lost count the number of people who have told me I’m depriving them of a “day out”…or they won’t get into a “good school” my kids go to an multi denominational school and learn facts. A niece told one of my kids that her teacher told her that the rain is god crying, my child a year younger explained the science behind rain to her!! I recalled being taught the same in my catholic primary school
Somehow I don’t think beating and abusing is of Christian origin either, yet in the past, the clergy facilitated these acts by moving paedophiles from parish to parish. However, now they are speaking out against Yoga?
@Do the Bort man: we only punish ourselves by dismissing the church, God and Jesus for the acts of some priests and bishops. This is what Satan wants. Not all of the clergy are the same.
Jesus was crucified so we could be saved through him. 11 of the 12 apostles were killed for preaching about Jesus. Satan gets a bigger thrill out of taking over the followers of Jesus.
Jesus is still present in the churches and Eucharist regardless of the acts of some clergy.
@Qfire: Are you for real?
@Qfire: we just want the hierarchy to take responsibility but they’ve refused & refuse to change their mindset
@Qfire: don’t believe everything you are told. Think for yourself. There is no Satan, no exclusive Catholic god. Good and evil reside within you. You don’t need a silly organisation whose only purpose is to continue and grow more powerful, to tell you what is right and what is wrong. You know these things yourself, innately. Books written by men are only that. Tales of Satan are designed to scare and control you. Break free from the chains of thought control and live your on moral life.
@Qfire: Jesus is a false prophet. He promised to rise from the dead but as the atheist magazine Free Inquiry said recently he may not have been put in the tomb in the first place and a fake burial may have happened. His predictions of the future are very vague – proof that he did not know the future at all and knew it – and his predictions of his resurrection were written down after the event. Scholars such as Aslan who wrote Zealot suspect he was involved in violence. He banned divorce for females though the reality is that girls were forced into marriage while still children.
Why does the church even think it has an opinion that should be heard . Their influence and control should be driven from anything got to do with children’s eduction.
If saying a decade of the rosary is how you meditate, then go for it. But total nonsense for priests to step in and advise schools and society to do that instead of practises that are proven to be beneficial for the health and stress management. No psychologist or health practitioner ever recommended a decade of the rosary. There are dozens of studies showing the benefits of mindfulness, yoga, and meditation. It shouldn’t have to be one over the other. It can be both, if people choose that. Such an insecure and power-hungry organization.
@B Collins: I like your words.
@B Collins: Spot on!
“Is that not an ecumenical decision “
And this is why religion should be kept a million miles froma schools and government.
When will the Catholic Church realise they have no hold on us anymore and we dont care.
What a load of crap at a time when mental health in young people is at crisis level.
“Yoga is not of Christian origin”…. and many other aspects of our lives: mathematics, the wheel,….these numpties need a ‘modern’ education, for the ‘Church’ thinks it knows it all. Shouldn’t they sort out their own filthy shop first before lecturing us about God.
Think I will take my advice on what my kid does in school from someone that does not believe there drinking blood and eating the flesh of a 2000 year old Jew.
@The long walk home☘️: their…even
@The long walk home☘️: or they’re
Feckin English language!
Gee bag
Come on Bishop, don’t be frightened of yoga or mindfulness. Nothing bad or evil have ever come from these activities. It is possible to do them and pray at the same time.
They are not parish schools. They are State funded schools.
Please stop these catholic bishops dictating what is taught in schools. http://bit.ly/2InZlTM
Schools for teaching, churches for preaching! Religion should have no place in modern education. If parents want their children indoctrinated with myths about zombie Arab Jews the bring them to church.
Give me strength
Yoga chants are not good especially if you don’t know what they mean.
Yoga originated in India where they worship many Gods. So it can be seen as a pagan ritual or practice. Therefore it goes against the first commandment and can be seen as demonic.
@Qfire: Just copied and pasted this from your link: “Practicing yoga is Satanic, it leads to evil just like reading Harry Potter,” …. Enough said.
@Qfire: which of course is only a problem if you believe in demons.
So really its not an issue since they are not real
@Barry Somers: you haven’t met my boss.
@Barry Somers: they are very much real as is Satan and hell. The biggest deception of Satan is to make people believe he doesn’t exist.
@Qfire: Cept he’s makey uppy too
@Qfire: What does hell mean to you? Do you celebrate Christmas, birthdays or Halloween?
@Qfire: Nah you’re confusing the quare fella with Keyser Soze….
@Qfire: oh dear. Did no one tell you. These are just stories we were told as kids to scare us. This whole religion thing is a bit of a scam designed to get people to do what their “lords” tell them. We don’t have kings or lords any more so don’t worry about the divil either.
@Diarmuid Hunt: i responded to you re education but those comments seem to be deleted. We can continue it another time as I’m watching the match. Thanks for the discussion.
@Seamus Mac: I’m watching the match too, pretty depressing stuff. Your comments haven’t been deleted they’re further down the comment section.
@Qfire: Yoga means yoke as in unite. It is about realising that there is no God outside you and you are God and not aware of it. It is pagan but who cares? The Bible hate speech against idols and their worshippers is a serious matter
That man needs to keep his mouth shut.
Nothing in the Journal about idol worship in the Vatican Gardens nor the scandalous revelation that the pro-abortion Ford Foundation is sponsoring delegates at the Amazon Synod.
The continued hollowing of Christianity in Ireland and the soft replacement of faith with new-age woo is a sorry sight to behold.
@Rob Porter: Almost as sorry as the forcing of old-age woo on people!
@Rob Porter: I’d take new age woo over old age woo any day. The reason why The Journal doesn’t cover the issues you raise? Nobody gives a shit.
@Rob Porter: Lazarus digging back into the bog
@Rob Porter: There is nothing in The Journal because they’re complete non-stories.
How religions choose to hold their rituals isn’t news, nor is it news that a perfectly legal organisation funded delegates.
As to the “continued hollowing of Christianity in Ireland” – Well, we can only hope it continues though personally I don’t need the new-age woo :)
I’d settle for an educated, skeptical and rational populace.
@Rob Porter: Coz nobody gives a poo about your old-time woo.
@Ian Phillip Creaner: And you think the bishop cares about comments on the journal.
@Daragh Harmon: Where did he state that?
@Daragh Harmon: No more than anyone cares about his ridiculous ramblings.
What a eejit! They still think they control the minds of the people. They don’t anymore.
And yet there are yoga and mindfulness classes in half the Parrish centres in the county :)
Well that’s me missus and her Wednesday morning girlfriends straight to Hell then !!
@Sean Treacy: Any pics?
This man has a seat at the table devising the curriculum for RC primary Schools and the junior very religious sillibus.
And they say the days of the church having influence on Ireland is gone?
As long as the census reports a large Catholic faith, we have to put up with this tripe.
Please, report your actual faith in the census, not your 10 visits to a church over your lifetime.
Heard it all now
Jesus loves yoga
Pity the bishop wasnt as vocal during the church abuse scandals. Yoga. I ask you
61 comments before this one and only one of them seemed to think he had a point. Most probably another backward thinking priest.
DOWN WITH THAT SORT OF THING !
I’ve never heard such b sh.t. Religion for church and education for schools. The Catholic Church should be banned from our schools. This Bishop is living in the dark ages.
Dinosaurs resurrected 2019
Ok everyone, now let’s take ten steps BACKWARDS!!!
Oh just go away!!
ecclesiastical rock lodged in the sanctity of the poor cod’s soggy rectitude
Seriously did he get a bang on the head
and think we actually listen to church after all there abuse
A blast from the past
He is right, it’s a Christian school & they’re practising yoga during time allocated for religious teaching. Do yoga during P.E.
@Nathan Carr: or remove all religion from schools
Catholic bishop writes innocuous letter allowing the usual suspects to vent some imagined outrage on the comment section of the journal. I wonder how many actually read the letter pictured in the article?
@Seamus Thank you for reminding me to read the letter aswell. A Bishop having any say in what goes on inside any school is in no way innocuous. I understand that it is a Catholic school but no religion should have any say in the secular education of children. I wonder does Alphonsus have anything to say about the upcoming celebration of the pagan tradition of Samhain that has infiltrated most schools? What about the pagan tradition of Christmas? Or my own personal favourite birthdays which are only mentioned twice explicitly in the Bible, Pharaoh’s birthday where he hung a baker Gen 40:1-23, Herod’s birthday where John the Baptist was killed Matt 14:3-11, note it was only unbelievers that celebrated birthdays in the Bible. Seems to me there are some definite double standards going on here.
@Diarmuid Hunt: what about people who dont want a secular education for their kids?
@Seamus Mac: then pay for the religious add on you puzzlingly want
@Seamus Mac: They should take responsibility for faith formation themselves, through their church. Plenty of Catholic kids in Educate Together schools who’s school day is purely secular. Religion has nothing to do with education.
@Seamus Mac: Secular education has nothing to do with teaching children a belief system. If you want your children to learn your religion then you should care enough to either teach them yourself or enrol them in a Sumfay school or something like that. Unless you actually mean you don’t want your children learning Maths, English, Geography, History, Science and all the other subjects in which case you can homeschool them to suit your agenda. No public school should have religious affiliations. If you want a private school to do all the indoctrinating for you then get together and set it up. I strayed from the religion I was brought up in, my younger brother was taken out of school and denied a proper education in case he lost his faith too. That is what dedication to faith looks like.
@Diarmuid Hunt: *Sunday
@GrahamMManning: why?
@: they do take responsibility, by sending their children to a school with a religious ethos.
@Diarmuid Hunt: why should no school have a religious affiliation if that is what parents want? Secularism is a belief system.
@Seamus Mac: cos belief in sky fairies and the details therein isn’t something that belongs in a school. Said as a teacher working in a catholic ethos school
@Seamus Mac: if a private school wants to adhere to a religious ethos crack on. But actually be private, no state funding of any kind including wages. Otherwise schools should be bastions of fact not fairy stories.
@GrahamMManning: i don’t know what a sky fairy is. If you cant be tolerant of others you must not be much of a teacher. Private schools receive state funding in this country so you are in effect calling for a ban on all religious education in schools to suit your own ideology.
@Seamus Mac: Secularism is the separation of church and state, it is not a belief system. Saying you don’t want your children to have secular education is saying that you don’t want them educated. Secularism does not stop religion, religion can still be taught and practiced. No public school should have a religious affiliation. If parents want their children to go to a school that teaches a certain religion then they can set them up and pay for them. If some parents wanted their children to be taught the earth was flat they shouldn’t get to dictate what all the other children in the public school system get taught. The hours used for religion could be much better used. Why do you think that public schools should teach Catholicism?
@Diarmuid Hunt: “no public school should have a religious affiliation” why not?
@Diarmuid Hunt: belief systems aren’t just religious.
@Seamus Mac: Why should taxpayers who are not Catholic subsidise Catholic indoctrination?
@Seamus Mac: No they can be philosophical too I agree. Please explain to me the negatives of separation of Church and State since you seem to be so against it? I’ve been respectful, and given you explanations of my thoughts and all you’re coming back with are one liners without even answering my questions.
@Seamus Mac: so that it doesn’t exclude capiche?
@Diarmuid Hunt: why should taxpayers who are catholic subsidise secular education? Respect comment was aimed at Graham.
@Diarmuid Hunt: i am not against separation of church & state (we have seen the results of that in our recent past) but you are calling for an all out ban on schools with a religious ethos. If parents want their children educated in these schools it is their right. Also if parents want their children educated in secular schools of course that is their right.
@Seamus Mac: sure ya do but ok. I’m tolerant of others and their right to their beliefs. That doesn’t translate to respecting all beliefs equally cos that’s, well…a tad nuts. If you want my broader belief then sure. Private schools should have to be funded entirely (including pay) privately and religion has no place in a public school.
@GrahamMManning: i think you should look up the meaning of the word “tolerant”.
@eileen boles: wouldn’t it exclude people who want to educate their children in a religious ethos school?
@Seamus Mac: so I should be tolerant of all views no matter how mental, wrong or harmful? Being tolerant and respectful of people’s right to their views is very different to being the same towards the views themselves.
@Seamus Mac: I never called for an all out ban on schools with a religious ethos, you can have them, but the state shouldn’t have schools that are based on religious ethos’. You misunderstand the term ‘secular education’, all children at the moment receive a secular education but the also receive a few hours of religious education within state schools. Secular education does not teach against religion, secular education is all the other subjects that children are taught besides religion. Secular education doesn’t mean teaching children not to believe in God, it means teaching children maths, english, history and all the other secular subjects.
@Seamus Mac: I know the respect comment was aimed at Graham, you have made the same comment to me in previous discussions and this time I’ve censored my own views to try and engage you more and understand you more.
@Diarmuid Hunt: not worth the effort Diarmuid.
@Diarmuid Hunt: if people want to have a school with a religious ethos that is their business & as they pay tax it should be state funded. In the current climate all schools receive state funding so you cannot have a school with a religious ethos in your scenario. Having said that there should be more secular schools if that is what people want but that is a matter for the department.
@GrahamMManning: no, you should be respectful to people while disagreeing with them, that is possible.
@Seamus Mac: Graham didn’t disrespect you, he disrespected your God, there is a massive difference. He refuses to censor his opinions based on your feelings, the only reason I’ve censored mine is so that you’ll continue the discussion so that maybe you’ll give me a valid rebuttal or give me something to think about. What you’re saying is that your feelings about your God are more important than Graham’s opinions. Graham wouldn’t be making these points about your God if your Church wasn’t forced upon children in State schools, he has no problem with you practicing your beliefs, he does have a problem with those beliefs being incorporated into the education of children.
@Seamus Mac: What nonsense would a bishop need to spout for the average religious joe or joanna to recognise it as bullshit I wonder? Look at the comments here..most are laughing at this lunatic…. these are the a average people of Ireland and they dont want this rubbish. Has that gone unnoticed by you?
This is the very same lunatic that decided he had the medical authority to comment on the HPV vaccine . Thats innocuous too is it? Cervical cancer is now innocuous is it?
So now decaring meditation and mindfulness as useless is innocuous…?
If he decided to rabbit on about how child abuse was a good thing would that be innocuous too?
Wake up…your religion is now on its deathbed in this nation and if you read your fellow citizens comments you’ll see we dont want it. More than that this sort of thing is doing nothing but increasing the despite and hatred for this mafiosa cult of nonsense.
@Diarmuid Hunt: ridiculing people for their belief is wrong no matter what way you dress it up. I agree that there should be more choice in schools if that is what parents want but their has to be a demand for it. We cannot get rid of all catholic schools because you & graham don’t like religion.
@Mickelodian Ranks: the bishop didn’t declare meditation or mindfulness useless. I wonder did you read the letter? As for trying to link hpv & child abuse to a letter about yoga, well done. As for the church being on its deathbed i guess time will tell. It will be around long after you is my guess.
@Seamus Mac: He didn’t ridicule you it’s not dressing it up, the fact that you can’t see the difference is worrying. It’s not about disliking religion, it’s about wanting children taught facts at school, more importantly it’s about teaching children critical thinking which religion for the most part dissuades. No matter your stance on God, you cannot prove or disprove his existence and therefore it is not a fact. Teaching children that unicorns are real but that they are invisible and don’t have any impact on the observable universe is the same thing, that is not a slight against you or your God, it is an analogy to show you why we should only teach things that we have evidence of being true.
@Seamus Mac: Feel free to answer any of the questions I’ve put before you any time rather than dancing around them or answering with another question, if you read back through our discussion you’ve questioned my stance over and over without defending or rationalising your own.
@Diarmuid Hunt: what question would you like me to answer, be specific?
@Seamus Mac: Why do you think state schools should teach Catholicism? Why should taxpayers subsidise the Catholic indoctrination of children? Why are you against the separation of State and Church (you keep saying that your not against it but then constantly argue that you are against it)? Why can’t you understand what secularism means? Do you think it’s ok for Alphonsus to argue against pagan practices (Yoga) while also allowing other pagan practices (Samhan, Saturnelia and birthdays)? I’ve already asked these questions or made these points and you have not countered one of them cohesively.
@Diarmuid Hunt: state schools should have a religious ethos because if that is what parents want & as they are citizens they are entitled to their religious freedom as much as you are entitled to your belief system. I believe i already gave you this answer. In response i would ask why you think you have the right to force your belief system on all the children of this country against the wishes of your fellow citizens?
@Diarmuid Hunt: taxpayers pay for all sorts of things they do not agree with. Catholics do not agree with abortion yet we still pay tax for it.
@Diarmuid Hunt: i agree with the separation of church & state but i also agree with peoples right to send their children to religious ethos schools. As all schools in this country are state funded their is no other option. I already gave you this answer if you read through our exchanges.
@Diarmuid Hunt: the bishop didn’t argue against yoga, he said that it should not be taught during the little time set aside for religious education.
@Seamus Mac: Why do you conflate religious freedom with religion taught in state schools? You are making no sense and have not give a remotely satisfactory answer. Healthcare and religious dogma are two entirely separate things you can not equate the two. You are in essence in favour of forcing Catholicism on all children attending state schools. I thoroughly dislike religion but am quite happy to let each to their own once it doesn’t interfere directly with society, nobody is forcing all Catholics to have an abortion so that argument is totally invalid. You are rigid in your thinking and illogical in your arguments.
@Seamus Mac: I’ve given you a lot of time because I thought that you might be rational, you are showing me more and more that you are not and that there is no point in reasoning with you and that Graham was right that I’m wasting my time.
@Seamus Mac: The Bishop also said that praying comes naturally to children, he was absolutely wrong, no child prays unless they are taught to pray.
@Seamus Mac: You obviously don’t agree with separation of church and state or else you would agree that state schools should not have a religious ethos. People have a right to send their children to religious ethos schools but the state does not have an obligation to provide religious ethos schools, again you’re showing a lack of reasoning. You claim I want to take religion away from religious peoples children, I don’t, I just don’t want religion to be taught in state schools. I went to a state school and had to sit at the back of the class excluded because I was not a Catholic, you speak of inclusion but preach exclusion.
@Diarmuid Hunt: if you believe i am irrational perhaps we are wasting our time. I have tried to answer your questions as best as i can & i think my answers are relevant but you obviously do not. Thank you for taking the time yet again. Im sure we will have another discussion in the future.
@Seamus Mac: The part I think is irrational to be specific is your insistence that your pro separation of state and church but anti secularism (they are the same thing) and against separating religion from state schools, again see secularism.
@Seamus Mac: I’m sure we will and I do really appreciate that you took the time to discuss your stance, it’s much more interesting than the juvenile name-calling that goes on here so often.
Father Ted’s alive and well
What a head-the-ball
This fellow also dipped his toe in medical matters and forbid H.PV. vaccine —–Because HE knew!
FFS …… Catholic Church bloody hypocrites
You have to laugh at how ridiculous they are. Also someone should tell him his religion has no place in schools!
What century is this bishop living in?
I used to have anxiety attacks, not as much now since I’ve started mindfulness and meditation, saying hail Mary full of Grace repeatedly never helped.
I’ve been trying to tone up my body and keep my joints healthy and flexible through communion. Been at it for years but I’m just not making progress.
I have had mental health challenges over the years and without my faith I don’t think I would be alive today. Saying the rosary is a very important daily prayer for me. So many prayers have been answered over the years. People abused in sport and music and yet people still send their kids to swimming and music lessons. There are so many good priests out there. I do stay away from yoga now as I do not trust it. Rather be safe than sorry!
@EMPCoburn: only thing being swim & music coaches don’t teach morality also?
@EMPCoburn: assuming sarcasm?
Should be yoga warning schools about priests
Ya because all those years of guilt and fear instilled in me by the Catholic Church really helped open me up as a person!! NOT!!
Thank goodness the Bishop has spoken up. And thank goodness he’s found some supporting documents signed by the Pope. That is after all his job.
The more the Bishop makes explicit his point of view the easier it will be for the rest of us to decide whether we want to have anything more to do with him. The Roman Catholic Church has a history in Ireland, And it’s worth considering the details of its track record. It’s important to be balanced about this because the Bishop is not speaking in a vacuum. Some bishops have been pleasant generous and kind some of the time. Others have been part of a paedophile ring which has actively protected its members. The clergy of some bishops have raped children in sacristies. It’s important to remember that not all bishops have raped children. Some have been kind and generous and seriously interested in the general good.
Citizens of Ireland have an interest in finding out the whole story, not just the warts, not just the miracles. I take my hat off to the bishop, I wish him a mindfull life. I don’t fancy his chances of eternal salvation
As a practising catholic and a teacher of Spanish and Religion in catholic secondary school, I teach mindfulness and will continue to do so.
John Charles McQuaid reborn in this sad individual. The narrow minded thinking and attitudes which has driven thousands of good people from the church
@Fearghna Lennon: it wasn’t the paedos, what they did/do and protecting of em???
So to summarise….
Beware of Heathens, heretics and witches!
Yoga and mindfulness are the work of demons in the service of Satan!
Those engaging in such practices with suffer the wrath of the Lord, be ever vigilent for those amoung us found with instruments of evil, such as yoga mats, crystals or incense in their possession.
Text, tweet or email your local witch hunter with the subject line, burn the witch now!
:-)
What a head-the-ball
Good old Fonzie. Never a stranger to controversy. Keeping modern catholic thinking going since 1299…
Perhaps the bishop should do a little stretching and reflect on his ignorance?
Seems a tad racist…
John Charles McQuaid reborn in this sad individual. The narrow minded thinking and attitudes which has driven thousands of good people from the church
Yoga is derived from demonic worship.The Bishop is 100 per cent correct to point this out.
@Robert Dungan: link?
Hail Eris. All hail discordia!
Waterford whisperers ???? Ffs
Well Christianity is not of Irish origin. Should we turf that out too?
@Davis Payne: yes
@GrahamMManning: make it so.
@Davis Payne: right so, what should I do after?
Of course he does!
As a practising catholic and a teacher of Spanish and Religion in catholic secondary school, I teach mindfulness and will continue to do so
@Shane Mitchell: fair play…kinda
Nothing wrong with doing both the Rosary and Yoga.
@Daithi De Roiste: tried it?
What is the bishops view on Yoda?
This is why I didn’t baptise my children and send them to multi denomination school….! A man who does not live in the real modern world, believes in fairy stories, with no children, trying to dictate to the education system.
I feel for any parent who has kids in those schools
Another ignoramus with a power complex!
Bishop Ufasach ar fad! Go do one you bloody moron
It seems in a last desperate attempt to spread rubbish, that if we just say nothing at all and simply leave the catholic church to their own devices they will voluntarily bullshit their way to oblivion.
Listened to callers on Joe Duffy about this on a flying visit back home from abroad. Was just aghast. Very poor advertisement for Ireland, I could not believe people arguing against yoga of all things, and suggesting how schooIs should centered in Jesus and Catholic faith and all that shite. I nearly thought they were actors. I can’t believe the Bishop thought this was actually important enough to comment on, knowing what the church actually needs to be talking about. Unbelievable stuff.
Holy shit.
have your say