LAST UPDATE | 25 Jun
THE TAOISEACH HAS told the Dáil that it is “utterly unacceptable” that he does not have full details of how many Defence Forces personnel have civilian criminal convictions.
Harris said during leaders Questions this afternoon that he has sought urgently for a list of how many people there are in the Irish Defence Forces with criminal convictions.
He added it was “utterly unacceptable” that he does not have full details of how many Defence Forces personnel with previous convictions.
“There is a very simple question that we must know the answer to – how many other people are in the Defence Forces today who have a criminal conviction?”
He said the Chief of the Defence Forces is compiling a report on the matter, stating that it will provided today.
“Every single person in this country needs to know that those regulations are followed and that they’re applied. I also think there’s very serious issues in relation to the regulation of a liaison officer attending the court. You ask me, what needs to change? I think that seriously needs to be reviewed,” he added.
Earlier the Taoiseach called for judicial training of judges in sentencing in cases like that of Limerick woman Natasha O’Brien and said that the Defence Forces has serious questions to answer in how they are handling cases.
Simon Harris was speaking this morning to reporters before he attended the weekly Cabinet meeting.
The Taoiseach said that the Defence Forces have “very grave, serious questions” to answer in regard to their handling of cases.
The outcry following the Cathal Crotty case has led to the focus turning to a number of other cases including that of Petty Officer David O’Gorman who has continued in his service in the Naval Service despite a conviction for assaulting his girlfriend in a domestic incident.
The Journal reported yesterday that there is now an investigation in the Defence Forces into that case and an audit of all current and concluded cases.
The internal discipline process had started in regard to the O’Gorman case who was convicted last November but given a suspended sentence by Judge Tom O’Donnell – the same judge as in the of Cathal Crotty case.
The case of Cathal Crotty saw the 22 year old Private who is based at Sarsfield Barracks in Limerick receive a suspended sentence for the unprovoked attack on Natasha O’Brien on the city’s O’Connell Street. A Defence Forces officer was in court monitoring proceedings.
Both men are facing internal discipline processes and they both have been warned that they are facing dismissal from the Irish Defence Forces.
The Taoiseach thanked Natasha O’Brien for speaking up and showing “courage” while bringing to the public’s attention “a number of very concerning situations”.
Harris said he was unable to comment on court matters but did say that the Director of Public Prosecutions can decide to take an appeal in 28 days after the conviction if they “should they decide that is the appropriate thing to do”.
“I think this has also shone a very serious light in relationship to the defense forces. I think it raises very grave, serious questions. There can be no hiding place in the defense forces, nor indeed in my view, any place or anyone in the Defence Forces who has been convicted of domestic sexual or gender based violence,” he said.
Harris denied that what he was saying was a mere “soundbite”.
The Taoiseach did not comment directly on the court or criticise Judge O’Donnell’s handling of the sentencing directly but did call for greater training for judges.
“What has clearly been seen, and I can’t comment on the specific court case, but what we have seen in the last number of days is how far we have to go to get to that point [of zero tolerance approach to domestic violence].
“I think this raises a number of important issues and I need to talk more broadly than the specific case. Judicial training, sentencing guidelines, the work of the Judicial Council, I think these are practical actions that need to absolutely be considered in terms of next steps,” he added.
Speaking earlier Tánaiste Micheál Martin, who is also the Defence Minister, said that Defence Forces personnel at all ranks are appalled by the cases.
As a tribunal of enquiry gets underway into allegations of abuse and bully in the military he urged people to co-operate with the judge led public inquiry.
“The use of violence in the manner that was used in these cases is quite shocking, there is no excuse for it.
“And there has to be standards and values within the Defence Forces and people’s behaviour, whether one is in uniform or not most approximate to those values and the most fundamental of all is you do not behave in such a violent manner towards women, and more generally, in society and that’s the bottom line,” he said.
The Tanaiste also confirmed The Journal’s article from yesterday that an audit is taking place of current and concluded cases against members who have been before civilian courts.
“There is a process in place, there can be no toleration, there has to be zero tolerance for violence of the kind that we witnessed against Natasha O’Brien – quite shocking – and indeed, in other cases that have come to light.
“There is a process there that is meant to be followed, in respect of once the court case, in terms of any criminal conviction, there has to be a follow up in terms of Defence Forces dealing with that.
“So I’ve asked in the context of further case, I’ve asked the Chief of Staff for a full report on that and when I get that report, I’ll consider any further actions that will be required.
“In parallel with that an audit is under way in respect of any other cases, similar to that case that may be out there,” he added.
Sources have said that there are some fears inside the Defence Forces that some of the cases may not have been reported to military authorities.
It is feared that some military personnel did not inform their commanding officers of the cases and that gardaí may not have contacted the army, navy or air corps of the arrest.
Interesting Dáil intervention here from @BerryCathal who has performed the role of court liaison as a military officer. pic.twitter.com/e80A7o1P83
— Niall O’Connor (@NiallJournal_ie) June 25, 2024
In the Dáil this afternoon Deputy Cathal Berry said that military leaders had appealed to Governments repeatedly to change the law which sees Irish Defence Forces officers attending court as a liaison.
“I agree entirely with your views in relation to the court liaison officer, myself, it’s archaic needs to be changed. But the Defence Forces can’t change the law, only the politicians can change the law. The Defense Forces have been screaming for changes in Defence Forces regulations.
“They’re looking for powers of suspension, powers of dismissal for gross misconduct, but radio silence from successive governments. So when are we going to get changes to Defense Force regulations, because they can only work with the orders they get rom the government of the day,” he said.
He called for the Minister for Defence to delegate some authorities and powers to junior minister Jennifer Carroll MacNeill. He said as she is a former barrister she is the perfect person to review and change Defence Forces regulations.
The Irish Defence Forces has released a statement in response to the Taoiseach’s comments.
The military spokesperson said: “Any conviction in a civilian court has implications for the retention and service of members of the Defence Forces, as stipulated in military regulations.
“The Defence Forces cannot act until due process has been completed in a civilian court of law. It is then a matter for the relevant Defence Forces authorities in accordance with military regulations.”
The spokesperson said that “in the cases referred to in the media” the Defence Forces that internal proceedings have commenced.
“We can confirm that military management holds high-level meetings routinely and as required to address a variety of service or operational issues, including personnel conduct. However, details of specific meetings or their contents are not disclosed.
“The Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces, Lieutenant General Seán Clancy has directed a thorough review across all Brigades and Formations, to ensure all regulations regarding these matters are being adhered to and a report is being prepared for An Tánaiste,” the Defence Forces spokesperson added.
With reporting from Jane Matthews and Christina Finn.
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