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Finally: Water committee close to a deal on the future of charges

The definition of water wastage has been defined as 1.7 times the average usage has been agreed by the committee.

THE ISSUE OF water has rumbled on for years – but this evening it is one step closer to resolution.

The 20-member Oireachtas Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services met in private today to hammer out some of the issues relating to water charges, refunds and metering.

Sources state the bones of the report by the committee has now been agreed.

It’s understood that after much back and forth about how to define excessive water usage, the definition of wastage as being 1.7 times the average usage has been agreed. This is 70% above average.

An excess usage levy will target the 8% of households (71,000 households) who are responsible for 32% of water usage.

Customers will get a notice in the post if they are above the threshold and they will have six months to correct the wastage.

Water meters 

Both Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael were at loggerheads over the water meter installation programme.

However, it’s understood that a deal has been struck which will effectively mean the end of the State roll-out of water meters for existing homes, something Fianna Fáil lobbied for.

The committee has agreed with Fine Gael’s submission that metering should still be carried out on all individual new builds and that apartments should be bulk-metered.

The future of Irish Water has been secured by the committee, with the organisation to continue as the national utility for water services in Ireland.

Throughout the negotiations, Fine Gael have been adamant that there must be compliance with the EU regulations.

Last month, the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government Simon Coveney said he would not be able to agree with the committee’s recommendations if there was a conflict with the EU’s directive on water usage.

He also said he was not prepared to introduce legislation that ran contrary to the advice of the Attorney General. By ensuring that an excess usage charging mechanism will be in place to implement the ‘polluter pays principle’, the minister has managed to side-step the issue.

The committee met in private this afternoon to hammer out the last remaining details. It’s understood members will meet again next Tuesday when this final draft report will be approved.

Read: Irish Water guilty of sewage pollution at four plants across the country

Read: So many questions… what’s happening with water charges?

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71 Comments
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    Mute Eamonn
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:20 PM

    So Irish Water stays.
    Metering stays.
    Charging for water stays.
    And we all have to register with Irish Water.

    Lol and we thought FF were actually going to keep their election promises. Haha.

    See you at the next protest.

    394
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    Mute The Unknown Souldier
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:28 PM

    @Eamonn: Any chance of a lift @Eamonn? I won’t be able to get near the city after the buses and trains go on strike or afford Bus Eireann after it’s privatization?

    108
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    Mute William Clay
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:15 PM

    @Eamonn: the next protest Eamonn? Why? Surely it’s clear that no protest, no matter how large, makes any difference.
    Irish water has survived. Fg has survived. Ff has survived. Metering and billing will continue.
    What will you do about it? That’s right, nothing.

    33
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    Mute Mick Hannigan
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:15 PM

    @Eamonn: totally agree with you, complete joke, they are putting charges in the back door, in two years time it will be defined as 1.2 and before we know it bang a yearly cost and then a yearly increase, anyone who agrees to this bull cr@p are complete fools,

    73
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    Mute Benjy Dooley
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:20 PM

    @William Clay: You and political establishment will kiss goodbye to your banker tax or you will be facing another election on the issue. Bring it on :)

    42
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    Mute William Clay
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:30 PM

    @Benjy Dooley: Benjy, I’m on your side, I faced and dealt with eviction over signing up with Irish water.
    And to this day I still haven’t and never will.
    You need to stop copy and pasting and actually reading the comments

    20
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    Mute vNblxOSQ
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:51 PM

    @William Clay: That patently obviously is not true William. The protests stopped FG’s water privatisation in its tracks

    36
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    Mute Mick Andrews
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:09 PM

    FFs manifesto promises about to be scraped. Anybody surprised ?? Hit them were they can’t place there lazy arses in the same seats they occupy now due to false promises.

    34
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    Mute William Clay
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:16 PM

    @vNblxOSQ: It stopped the initial charge, but the end goal remains the same, Privatisation. Nothing, NOTHING is going to stop that.

    11
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    Mute Gavin Scott
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:23 PM

    Of course we need water charges. What is more important than H to the 2 to the 0?!!??

    2
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    Mute Tommy
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    Mar 29th 2017, 7:59 PM

    Great, free water.
    Now what about the referendum on ownership of our water?

    363
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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:01 PM

    No no Tommy , still paid for as ever by General taxation, LPT and 6% of your road tax ….. (I know that fact went in one ear and straight out the other )

    377
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    Mute Tommy
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:02 PM

    @Ibhar Mac Suibhne:
    In the sense that there are no new charges.

    64
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    Mute Catherine Mc
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:11 PM

    @Ibhar Mac Suibhne:
    Not everyone pays LPT, so basically hit the same people pay again !

    36
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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:35 PM

    @ Cathrine Mac … Oh yes , thanks for reminding me I refused to pay LPT, still waiting for the case to come up in the high court through attackthetax.org

    51
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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:36 PM

    @ Tommy … WORD comrade !

    18
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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:11 PM

    @Ibhar Mac Suibhne: I dont pay neither its a bankers tax and a tax on the family home.when sf get into government they will abolish it.

    46
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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:17 PM

    @Tommy: ff fg are after our last asset our water do not let them sell that asset.

    63
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    Mute Soccer T's
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:20 PM

    @Bobby Phelan: I’m ok with charges for waste full water usage as long as we get a guarantee that IW won’t be privatised

    30
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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:40 PM

    @Soccer T’s: dont buckle now soccer put the water back to the county council and enshrine our water asset into the constitution settle for nothing less.they have had 20 billion taken in tax since 1997 where is the 20 billion gone?

    56
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    Mute Will J. Browne
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    Mar 29th 2017, 11:41 PM

    @Ibhar Mac Suibhne: Free to the user. The taxpayer will foot the bill. It’s amazing how obtuse water protester are, but what do you expect from people who don’t care if their kids are swimming around in shite.

    8
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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Mar 30th 2017, 12:49 AM

    @ Will … But grumpy you lost the water war? Ah cheer up, at least you and your kids still own the resource and not Denis O Brien or Nestle.

    22
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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Mar 29th 2017, 7:58 PM

    ” The future of Irish water has been secured by the committee ”
    …. LOL !! ah yeah we the people are all fine with your little fantasy there guys Hehehehehe!

    255
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    Mute Benjy Dooley
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:14 PM

    Will Irish Water be fining themselves for the 50% of water they waste through leaking pipes?
    FF and FG are struggling mightily to retain the last vestige of their banker tax which was broken by a mass boycott.

    275
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:19 PM

    @Ibhar Mac Suibhne: we still need a national approach to water. That is a no brainier. Concern of course is the continued wastage of money for the billing system and the capital and interest repayments on the money wasted todate. Apartments bulk billing will be interesting as to how they can implement- via service charges most likely. The control of normal usage is a concern as well. The rate above also. The devil will be in detail

    42
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    Mute Pa Cantillon
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:28 PM

    @lavbeer: What’s a no brainier?

    4
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:35 PM

    @Pa Cantillon: a national approach to water. Having the cocos delivering it wasn’t cost efficient as notional county boundaries were in play.

    10
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    Mute John McG
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:54 PM

    @lavbeer: Don’t start talking sense, this is the Journal & it’s about water. Please leave your common sense views out of it!

    10
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:54 PM

    @John McG: but the billing system needs to be removed

    9
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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:31 PM

    All a sham.Still being set up for privatisation. Continued metering and the refusal to give a referendum on ownership of the water resource.
    There’s a protest on the way, make your voices heard.

    190
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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:05 PM

    Ff fg are deluded we already Pay demand referendum on ownership of our water not iw.

    196
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:21 PM

    @Bobby Phelan: yes how IW chose to offload any percentage needs to be protected given the money they have borrowed most likely against state assets

    29
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    Mute Willy Malone
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:04 PM

    Even when FF and FG retry to introduce the charges , I for one will not pay the same quango set up for bankers tax. The door is left ajar for the continued roll out of water meters and future charges and eventually privatization…. Bullsh!T..

    236
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    Mute Negan
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:13 PM

    @Willy Malone: absolutely nothing will have to be paid by you Wally if you, as you should be doing, take care in the amount of water you use, so shut your gob

    27
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    Mute Benjy Dooley
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:15 PM

    @Negan: FF and FGs gobs were firmly shut by the mass boycott which sunk their banker tax. Which party are you with?

    152
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    Mute Willy Malone
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:44 PM

    @Negan: We should meet Negan and discuss shutting Gobs ….

    25
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:45 PM

    @Benjy Dooley: all you need to do now is translate that to votes and seats

    4
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    Mute Benjy Dooley
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:48 PM

    @lavbeer: The working class can mobilize in many different ways. We can see them driving the state back in the industrial sector at the moment.

    22
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:56 PM

    @Benjy Dooley: as I said … into votes

    6
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    Mute Jho Harris
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:10 PM

    @Benjy Dooley: Benjy and Wally of 2 of a multi false/accounts, don’t pay any attention to this deluded person.

    4
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    Mute Benjy Dooley
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:10 PM

    @lavbeer: Dail seats are merely one tactic in the socialist strategy to change society. When change does come it won’t originate in the parliamentary “democracy” system which is designed to prevent any fundamental change but will come from the streets.

    21
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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:14 PM

    @Negan: what your language fg tripe and ff tripe talk will not be tolerated.

    23
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    Mute JoseMacPhisto
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:19 PM

    @Benjy Dooley:

    How’s the job search goin Wally? Any interviews on the horizon?

    5
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    Mute Benjy Dooley
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:21 PM

    @JoseMacPhisto: I’m not looking as hard as Commissioner O Sullivan.

    23
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    Mute JoseMacPhisto
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:42 PM

    @Benjy Dooley:

    Ah sure send us on your cv and I’ll have a look

    3
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    Mute Gerry Ivie
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:13 PM

    “Customers will be notified if they exceed the threshold “. That’s bo***x. I never registered , so they don’t know whether I live alone or if I have the entire Beverly Hillbillies clan living with me. So how will they work that out?…..

    192
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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:19 PM

    @Gerry Ivie: Last I heard they are hiring water diviners Gerry. Be very worried…..

    47
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    Mute Jho Harris
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:13 PM

    @Gerry Ivie: We have not registered either, nor did we registered with IKEA, Starbucks, Tesco, Topaz or any other companies who service we use. We are in a group scheme which is information which is easy to access.

    16
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    Mute Jho Harris
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    Mar 30th 2017, 8:58 AM

    @Jho Harris: “don’t”

    1
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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:12 PM

    “It’s understood members will meet again next Tuesday when this final draft report will be approved.”

    I’d imagine that will be in the Dail bar…..

    114
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    Mute leartius
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:26 PM

    Well I sure that’s just what everyone who voted FF over a year ago hoped for. Irish water to remain as a super Quango with a super bonus culture to boot. People with private wells paying multiple times for water through taxation and added cost to supply there own drinking water. Wasn’t so hard for FF and FG to agree how they believe water should be paid for. Now we all must swallow what our political elite believe will hasten water becoming a taxable commodity. Blaming Europe is just another excuse for stabbing the electorate in the back once again.

    122
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    Mute dick dastardly
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:58 PM

    Oh great,now how about Fine Gael refunding the Irish tax payer back about 1 billion it has cost us to set it up in the first place,once again nobody held accountable in this corrupt country

    105
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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:11 PM

    @dick dastardly: I Billion??? 3.5 Billion has been pumped into IW.

    64
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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:27 PM

    @Dave Doyle: It’s alright phil hogan is living it up in Europe…..

    50
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    Mute Dj
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:12 PM

    Irish Water? Oh ya, I remember that.

    66
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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:34 PM

    Interestingly, fining people for using more than they should has been known to lead to more use. Experiments were carried out, amongst others, in a creche where parents were told they would have to pay a fine if they picked the kids up late. The number of parents arriving late significantly increased. It was concluded, based on this and similar research, that, when there’s a moral obligation, people normally adhere to it, but if you can buy yourself out of a moral obligation, people tend to do that. As we currently use much less water than many other countries, it is not unreasonable to predict that water use will go up when it’s possible to pay your way out of conservation.

    64
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    Mute Brendan Hughes
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:06 PM

    @Anne Marie Devlin: like carbon credits.

    19
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    Mute Adrian
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    Mar 29th 2017, 9:03 PM

    It doesn’t matter cause the rest of us made our minds up long ago!

    53
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    Mute ray.farrelly
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:19 PM

    Back to the streets.

    53
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    Mute Charliegrl80
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:13 PM

    I didn’t pay can’t afford to pay twice and will never pay -

    53
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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Mar 29th 2017, 8:45 PM

    So Irish water would be loss making if everyone paid, and now they tell us that only 8% will have to pay. That makes perfect sense alright. Hard to believe we actually pay these morons.

    113
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    Mute Billy Larkin
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    Mar 29th 2017, 7:59 PM

    Mmmm, should be interesting, Anyone for popcorn?

    46
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    Mute Shakka1244
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:21 PM

    What they don’t provide an detail on is how they will be able to tell if someone is using too much water?

    Surely they are not suggesting finishing water metering at a cost of €200 million?

    39
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    Mute Gus Dennis
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:24 PM

    But what about the real power:the voters,who expressed the only really important views ,on the streets of Dublin (free!)?!!!

    33
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    Mute whitecross
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:58 PM

    The blueshirts and the Flip-Flaps (F.F.) are going to have a hard sell on this crap .Irish Water quango are still in existence ,water meters still in place ,Charge for excessive uses Who decides the “generous allowance ” ? The politicians will want to wash their hands of that .regulator ? .My advice is to scalp the meter ,pull of the top part that takes a reading its only held on by one screw ,takes all of 10 seconds .I stopped a meter going in ,i paid for the pipes and fittings many years ago when we paid a for a group water scheme taken over by the council ….I wont pay for any re-charging of water .

    39
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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Mar 29th 2017, 10:40 PM

    So, when do we get a say on the deal?

    24
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    Mute Neuville-Kepler62F
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    Mar 29th 2017, 11:22 PM

    Now that Irish Water will be paid for by general taxation, can all pre-2008 car owners who paid for everybody’s water services since 2008 stop paying the high annual motor tax.

    And also can all pre-2008 petrol car owners who paid excess annual motor tax charges since 2008 have a refund please and make all diesel owners pay the penal car tax they should be paying for polluting our air with toxic NOx fumes and soot.

    Diesels now banned in Paris, London, Athens and many other cities. Netherlands plan to ban all diesels from 2025.

    2-Tier Car Tax Petition https://www.change.org/p/unfair-car-tax-law

    19
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    Mute Unitedpeople
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    Mar 30th 2017, 4:55 AM

    Traitors trying to make a fool of you yet again.
    .
    The so called agreement the farcical Oireachtas Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services reached, is nothing but more bloody tricks to con people.
    .
    1. Water Billing will still remain as a possibility – and you can be damn sure after later privatisation, there will be further billing. You can be sure there will be changes as the committee already admit itself that there will be reduction changer later, to water allowances.
    .
    2. Irish Water will be allowed to continue.
    .
    3. The bulling in of water meters will still continue.
    .
    $. Everyone will be told to register with Irish Water. What they don’t tell you is that (a) this quietly give the company legal recognition, (b) after such recognition, you are awarding the company the right to further bill you and legal accepting that they have the right to. YOU ARE BEING LEGAL TRICKED INTO MAKING A DECLARATION AGAINST YOURSELF.
    .
    5. STILL no constitution guarantee as to the protection of national water, Irish resources and all its connected servicing operations.
    .
    If Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and any other u-turning traitors fools think this is going to be acceptable, they have their heads up their arse.
    .
    Fianna Fail in particular have again shown themselves to be the now notorious u-turn artists and repeat trickers that they are. We already know Fine Gael is a right shower – being led by a Walter Mitty character – but it is again sickening to see Fianna Fail still traitor propping them up still.
    .
    See you all on the 8th of April in Dublin.

    23
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    Mute Roy O' Brien
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    Mar 30th 2017, 7:14 AM

    There just trying to give us a water bill anyway this committee can.NO WAY WE WON’T PAY.

    14
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    Mute Unitedpeople
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    Mar 30th 2017, 4:31 AM

    Shameful to see but not unexpected as its Fianna Fail, they yet again so another u-turn and cave to traitorous Fine Gael over water meters.
    .
    Three bathfuls before you are deemed a water waster under new deal – Water meters will be installed in new builds.

    * Fianna Fáil agreed to accept a proposal for all new builds to have meters installed as a precondition.

    * Government sources emphasised that this rate will reduce over time, as people improve their conservation habits following the introduction of the new water regime.

    11
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    Mute Paul Cahoon
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    Mar 30th 2017, 7:37 AM

    How much does Ballygowan and all the mineral water companies pay for their water. What a waste.

    8
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