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FactCheck: Does every other country in Europe have water charges?

Fine Gael TD Seán Barrett made the claim over the airwaves recently. Is it true?

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Updated at 9.20pm

WITH THE EXPERT Commission on water already beginning its work, Sinn Féin forwarding a motion in the Dáil to abolish water charges last week, and Fianna Fáil changing its policy, the issue remains nearly as close to the top of the political agenda as ever.

And during a conversation on last Tuesday night’s Late Debate on RTE Radio One, Fine Gael TD Seán Barrett underscored his support for funding our water system through domestic charges.

He claimed: “Every other country in Europe has water charges”.

Is that true?

(Remember, if you hear a big claim on a big issue, email factcheck@thejournal.ie or tweet @TJ_FactCheck).

What was said:

TheJournal.ie / YouTube

You can listen to an excerpt of the debate above, but for our purposes, we’re interested in this statement:

We have struggled, from [1977] until now, to try and get back to a situation where we could have direct payment for water, so that we could preserve or conserve water, like every other country in Europe has water charges…

The Facts

We asked Fine Gael and Seán Barrett’s office for evidence to support the claim. In response, Fine Gael directed FactCheck to news articles about the 2014 Global Water Intelligence Annual Tariff Survey.

For the most up-to-date information, we obtained a copy of the 2016 report, which was published last week.

It surveyed the amount paid for water and waste water by a family of four using 15 cubic meters of water per month, in 384 cities across the world.

Unfortunately, we can’t reproduce the report in full, but we can confirm that out of 95 European cities (85 of them in the EU) only Belfast did not have domestic water charges in place.

We can also share the following figures for 30 major cities throughout the EU, representing 27 out of the 28 EU member states:

For a full-size version of this chart, click here For a full-size version of this chart, click here

Malta is the only EU member state not represented in the Global Water Intelligence (GWI) figures.

However, we know that the charge in Malta for a household using 15 cubic metres per month (the GWI criterion) is €5.14 (or $5.73) per cubic metre, which would put Malta fourth in the GWI rankings.

This research was conducted on 1 July this year, before water charges were suspended in Ireland for the duration of the expert commission, so as of today, Ireland would join Northern Ireland as the only jurisdictions in the EU (and Europe) without domestic water charges.

Conclusion

Seán Barrett TD Sam Boal / RollingNews.ie Sam Boal / RollingNews.ie / RollingNews.ie

Seán Barrett’s claim was that “Every other country in Europe has water charges”.

However, Northern Ireland does not have domestic water charges. While water services are funded through regional and district rates (a kind of property tax), households do not pay directly and specifically for their water usage.

Allowing for the fact that Northern Ireland is a component of the UK, we rate this claim Mostly TRUE.

Correction: Due to an error, the verdict on this article was previously stated as ‘mostly FALSE’. It has been corrected now to the correct verdict of ‘Mostly TRUE’. 

TheJournal.ie’s FactCheck is a signatory to the International Fact-Checking Network’s Code of Principles. You can read it here.

For information on how FactCheck works, what the verdicts mean, and how you can take part, check out our Reader’s Guide here

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141 Comments
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:11 PM

    When something is 96% true, surely it should be rated as “Mostly True”?

    27 out of 28 EU Member States have water charges. One region of one Member State, Northern Ireland, has a general charge which water is part of.

    And yet this is “Mostly False”???

    The conclusions that Fact Check come to are seriously undermining it’s credibility.

    532
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    Mute Daniel Fontaine
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:15 PM

    @Brinster:
    Sean Barret claimed that ‘every country in the EU had water charges’
    This claim has been proven false.
    Perhaps Mr. Barret might do some research before making sweeping pronouncements next time he opens his gob.

    188
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:17 PM

    @Daniel Fontaine:

    He said every OTHER country had them.

    And they do.

    Whether you are for or against water charges, claiming it is “Mostly False” that other countries have them is absurd.

    It is spin.

    And Fact check should deal in facts, not spin.

    342
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    Mute Paul Mc
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:19 PM

    Does every other country have politicians who accept bribes in return for mobile phones licences and for giving out state contracts to their political cronies? Well it’s quite possibly but in Ireland we know it as a fact.

    315
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:22 PM

    @Paul Mc:

    Fully agree Paul. And that is an utter disgrace.

    But that is a separate issue.

    Fact Check is not supposed to push any agenda.

    And yet the conclusions it comes to are often completely at odds with the research.

    196
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    Mute For Connolly
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:29 PM

    @Brinster: Missing the point (on purpose methinks) brinster.

    Was his statement true?

    No.

    Plus it was made on the false premise that we do not already pay here.

    131
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:33 PM

    @For Connolly:

    96% True.

    Should be rated Mostly or Partly True.

    But this is ridiculous. “Mostly False” is a joke of a conclusion.

    Especially when the author talks about “cities” when the claim was made about “countries”.

    Rapidly losing faith in what started out as a very positive and unbiased service

    183
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    Mute Paul Meade
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:35 PM

    @For Connolly:

    I think anyone looking at this discussion from outside Ireland would wonder what kind of idiots we are in this country. 97.2% of the UK pays water charges, therefore the UK pays water charges.

    Secondly borrowing money to give away free water is not paying, it is being environmentally deluded and financially irresponsible. But the water cult has declared vat went up in 1997 even though it didn’t and motor taxes went up even though motor taxes didn’t go up that year and they were abolished in 2008 and replaced with a new system based on emissions.

    The water cult can of course repeat their mantras again, its been two years now, the country keeps borrowing money and one day will go bust

    161
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    Mute Ollie O'Brien
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:38 PM

    Truth is an absolute. It’s either true or it is not . So its completely false

    70
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:42 PM

    @Ollie O’Brien:

    Not if you count “countries” rather than “cities”. Which is what the claim was.

    Name another EU Member State that DOESN’T have water charges.

    There isn’t one.

    Using your logic the claim would be Completely True.

    147
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    Mute Nick Drake
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:46 PM

    @Paul Mc: Yes every other country has politicians who are corrupt. Fact.

    53
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    Mute Lorem Ipsum
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:49 PM

    So, For Connolly; you consider the north to be another country?

    65
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    Mute LITTLEONE
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:54 PM

    Now am I missing something on the article. When the journal asked fg for evidence on the article.
    Fine Gael directed FactCheck to news articles about the 2014 Global Water Intelligence Annual Tariff Survey.
    Then you have
    we obtained a copy of the 2016 report, which was published last week.
    It surveyed the amount paid for water and waste water by a family of four using 15 cubic meters of water per month, in 384 cities across the world.
    So is this report about cities or countries

    39
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    Mute Ollie O'Brien
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:56 PM

    No logic is perfect , 96% is still not true

    32
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:58 PM

    @LITTLEONE:

    It is just such a strange conclusion.

    The author seems to think that because Belfast doesn’t have charges, the UK doesn’t.

    That makes zero sense.

    Does he know that Belfast isn’t a country?

    Even if it was a country, surely the claim would be “Mostly True”?

    91
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    Mute jane
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:04 PM

    Perhaps it’s a genuine error cause it seems too ridiculous to be the actual conclusion they came to.

    59
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    Mute Paul Mc
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:11 PM

    Yes but are they taking food of your table Nick or responsible for people dieing on hospital waiting lists?

    22
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:28 PM

    Fair play – it was a mistake.

    Article now amended so my ranting above can be disregarded.

    41
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    Mute James Gorman
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:45 PM

    Isn’t it absurd every other country charges for water when you can get it totally free here and use as much as you like, leave the tap on 24 hours a day when its freezing even..

    68
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    Mute ben
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:53 PM

    Don’t care were an island that has plenty of rain and water.

    40
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    Mute Stephen Cullen
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:04 PM

    Have you recovered from labours tragic end paul meade?! :-)

    31
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    Mute Donncha Ó Coileáin
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:32 PM

    Whether Northern Ireland has water charges or not is irrelevant if England, Scotland and Wales have them. If they have water charges, then water charges are in use somewhere in the UK.

    We say the UK has snakes, though NI has none. Apply the same logic here. Therefore every other state in the EU has water charges.

    31
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:39 PM

    And every other country pays hundreds a year to support a billing system. The UK has shown conservation is not delivered. We can’t afford to support this company. Investing huge money in metres in ridiculous. Ireland leading from the front on this one.

    28
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    Mute Joe M Donald
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:49 PM

    Blah blah blah

    1
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    Mute Eamonn coughlan
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:02 PM

    Since when is water free james?
    Who do you think has paid for the infrastructure upto now?
    Pixies or fairies per haps .

    60
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    Mute James Gorman
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:04 PM

    @Eamon – satire!

    4
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    Mute ciaran
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:15 PM

    the entire world can pay for water, as far as I am concerned I already do and do not need second hand meteres installed at great expense under very dubious circumstances again with the same culprits involved to tell me I am using water. Fact check who owns these water suppliers and how many belong to the citizens of the countries and how many have been sold to private hand?
    lets have the debate, 1st off Ireland pays for its water, Fact!

    31
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    Mute louis eivers
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:41 PM

    Sure go out and dig your own well so

    27
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    Mute John Mulligan
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:42 PM

    And plenty of lakes to dump sewage in. Sewage is a human right.

    15
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    Mute Gone Feisin
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:15 AM

    F*** you Journal, and your water charges. We don’t care if everyone else pays. To paraphrase my fair aul grandmother ‘if your friends all jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?’

    24
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    Mute Cez Miname
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:16 AM

    For Connolly- Barrett was referring to DIRECT payment for water therefore his premise was correct and your conclusion is wrong regardless of the truth of your insinuation already we pay for water indirectly.

    9
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    Mute Cez Miname
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:20 AM

    Quite astonishing James but the inability of so many Irish to acknowledge this defies belief. Just incredible level of cultural blindness over this issue.

    15
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:27 AM

    Barrett opinion is irrelevant. He has used to wasting money with others paying. Silly factcheck really. Avoiding the real discusion of cost.

    9
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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:45 AM

    Olli it’s true. northern ireland is not a country. The uk pays for water.

    14
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    Mute Rourkey52.
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    Oct 7th 2016, 2:40 AM

    Is this the same FG Eamonn Coughlan who puts that posh upmarket accent on everytime he’s on the wireless or TV. And when he does he usually hs very little to contribute. Run away Eamonn. Please !!

    15
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    Mute Jeremy McCarthy
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    Oct 7th 2016, 4:32 AM

    Who gives a fcuk if they have them?! We already pay through various other taxations so the whole argument is pointless!

    19
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    Mute Stephen Duffy
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    Oct 7th 2016, 6:18 AM

    There should be no “mostly” in this at all. The UK has water charges so the claim “as made” is 100% True.. As far as I am concerned FactCheck’s credibility is in doubt.

    10
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    Mute Rand Al Thor
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    Oct 7th 2016, 8:25 AM

    Wrong,Northern Ireland is a province within the U.K. It is not listed as a separate country.The U.K has water charges as do every other country in the EU except ROI .Mr Barret is therefore correct.

    9
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    Mute Rand Al Thor
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    Oct 7th 2016, 8:34 AM

    What’s that got to do with the statement on water charges,his statement regarding every other country paying is true 100%.Its like saying Taunton in Somerset doesn’t pay therefore it’s false.People on here are incapable of sticking to facts,that’s why other issues like corruption is being introduced nothing to do with the facts.Stupidity knows no bounds here.

    7
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    Mute Mary Murphy
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    Oct 7th 2016, 8:37 AM

    Paul our household charge was supposed to take care of all our local needs!!! So do away with paying property tax and promise water will not be privatised and I will surely agree to pay water charges. But I am certainly not going to pay three times for water in a watery country like ours. In Spain one of the driest countries the water charges are only ninety euro per year, already before they were invested in being fair about charges they were already ripping us off here in this country. That’s where the problem was and continues to be. People getting ripped off.

    17
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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Oct 7th 2016, 9:33 AM

    @Paul Meade:
    Local Government ( Financial Services) Act 1997. Read it.

    5
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    Mute Christy Nolan
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    Oct 7th 2016, 9:54 AM

    @Btrinster:
    Inconvenient facts seem to be hurting this government.
    Its a new scandal/inconvenient fact every week now it seems.
    Spend more time dealing with the results of tribunals/inquiries and less time hiding behind dark white lies.

    4
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    Mute Robert Murray
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    Oct 7th 2016, 3:48 PM

    @James Gorman: Are you Enda in disguise?I don’t know anyone who leaves the taps on all day,ever.That is a plain stupid argument,as it would be leaving taps running all day.Keep water in public ownership,maybe then more people might pay.But wanting to privatize it just so we can keep up with our neighbours borders on absurd.

    1
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    Mute John Mulligan
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    Oct 7th 2016, 4:39 PM

    @Robert Murray: during the last big freeze, reservoirs were almost emptied as people ran taps non-stop.
    Just sayin’!

    2
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    Mute Rand Al Thor
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    Oct 7th 2016, 5:12 PM

    Have they not heard of lagging their lofts and tanks.We live in an old converted farmhouse at about 650 feet above sea level and have been snowed in.we have got our ber rating at B3 which is way better than most modern houses.It costs to do it but I have not had a problem with freezing pipes.It can be done without running water non stop

    1
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    Mute Martin Ryan
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:03 PM

    Ireland has had water charges for a very long time. We just don’t want it privatised for doBdgy business men.

    225
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    Mute Lucille Ball
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:57 PM

    @ Martin.. best and truest comment yet this eve on this issue… we need to look ahead on the water charges issue..it will be privatised and then we are screwed for sure… fight it now before all this happens.. because it certainly will if the majority pays… which they won’t at this stage…

    68
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:54 PM

    And no need to support a few hundred jobs at a billing centre and waste money replacing metres every few years etc. Common sense.

    30
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    Mute Greg Blake
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:39 PM

    Actually Journal, that’s mostly false.
    The table only represents an equivalence to tariffs as a cost per household, the form of collection varies from direct taxation to indirect methods. The degree of privatisation varies from completely privatised to completely public. The level of national versus local infrastructure varies. Most of all the value added portion varies widely from a basic supply system to one where district heating, hot water etc are included in the charge.
    While it’s true to say everybody pays for water (we always have), it’s not true to suggest that the form of payment, service provision or privatisation that IW are set up to do is the same everywhere. As if it’s a standards goal.

    15
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    Mute Greg Blake
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:55 PM

    The table portion offered to us is city based not nation based but also has some strange inclusions, like more than one city from the UK, even two from Cyprus, the inclusion of some non EU cities. Factcheck should provide only relevant research extractions to back up their judgement, otherwise their own legitimacy is in question.

    19
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    Mute Dave Reilly
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:10 PM

    People’s views about water charges aside, how is this mostly false? Only one particular region of one country in Europe was found not to have water charges. Doesn’t that mean the claim is actually mostly true? (Not an FG member or even supporter, for the record)

    204
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    Mute Wastrel
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:49 PM

    It means in fact that the claim is absolutely, 100% true, and calling it even ‘mostly true’ is doing Barrett a disservice.

    If water charges exist in any form in every other EU member state then that’s enough for his statement to be interpreted as completely accurate, and it’s completely immaterial that not everyone everywhere in those countries is paying water tax.

    58
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    Mute Donal O'Lochlainn
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:21 PM

    Northern Ireland is not a country, it is a region of the UK, or 6 counties of Ireland. So the statement is true.

    144
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:54 PM

    @Donal O’Lochlainn:

    Honestly I think that this is the moment that Fact Check has “jumped the shark”.

    This conclusion is so ridiculous it casts huge doubt on the series’ credibility.

    69
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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:27 PM

    @Brinster:

    I take that back – article now amended so above comment should be disregarded.

    14
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    Mute Polly Dolan
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:04 PM

    False. That’s t a surprise. A politician not telling the truth.. cut it out.

    90
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    Mute €uromancer
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:10 PM

    That €1.63 looks minimal because it’s only representative of the spurious charge ADDED to the extortionate taxes we already pay for water. It’s similar to how the ‘government’ doctor the unemployment figures.

    88
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:57 PM

    And the opening charge. Capped. They need 1.2 billion a year to justify themselves. 19 times the current rate.

    19
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    Mute EC P Ford
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:23 PM

    I think it’s time to dump the journal

    81
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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:22 PM

    Before IW came along, they would have us believe we got on our knees and prayed for water.
    Since 1997 under the Local Government (financial services) Act, we have paid 29 Billion Euro for water services. If that money went for what it was taxed and intended for, we would have a first class water service.
    Metered water charges are for one purpose only, Privatisation, and nothing else. They can say and lie all they like, no one is fooled.

    72
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    Mute james r
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:15 PM

    Dave 100% true .. thank you

    20
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    Mute Tony Hartigan
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:18 PM

    But I am paying for water for so long 25% of my motor tax + 2% of my VAT going towards water.

    66
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    Mute Brendan Mason
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:24 PM

    How many countries have a credit card tax of 30 euros anualy. Don’t irelaid get hit for high vrt and car tax. Take those taxes alone would go far in paying for water charges.

    63
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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:13 PM

    Sean should understand we already pay for water through VAT and motor tax. Maybe he could get his adviser to explain that to him.

    61
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    Mute Eamonn
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:15 PM

    Really? According to the blueshirts Sinn Fein brought in and are enforcing water charges in the North. OH wait they lied.

    51
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    Mute Michael O'Neill
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:40 PM

    I don’t understand the article. It show statistics that every other country has water charges and then says it’s mostly false. Must be a misprint.

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    Mute Cormac Laffan
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:39 PM

    What’s happened to Fact Check, Charlie’s only use is propping up a broken stool but he’s mostly right here.
    Anyway, ALL EU countries pay for water, us included, its all on record. Not our fault the ringfenced taxes were diverted elsewhere.

    47
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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:45 PM

    @Cormac Laffan: Why do you think all the county managers and officials got paid off with a handsome pension, and then re-employed by IW with a handsome salary and the prospect of another pension?
    It was their reward for allowing the water infrastructure fall to rack and ruin.

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    Mute Jeffrey McMahon
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:57 PM

    So you admit we already pay for water?

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:52 AM

    Yes we pay for water mostly through our road tax. A homeless man living in his car pays for michael olearys swimming pool. is that right Jeffrey?

    4
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    Mute Ruairi
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:46 PM

    Seriously, can someone explain to me how this is “mostly false”? I genuinely feel like I’m missing a key point here. If every other city, and I’m assuming by extension country, in the EU is paying for water except Belfast, surely it’s mostly true. What’s the piece I’m missing? I enjoyed the journals fact check articles but this one just seems like a ridiculous conclusion, or else is just badly explained.

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    Mute Darren Lynch
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:58 PM

    Excellent. Does this mean fg plan on abolishing vrt on cars for the same reason??

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    Mute Brian O'Donnell
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:17 PM

    Why is the graph in Dollars not Euros?

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    Mute €uromancer
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    Oct 7th 2016, 7:51 AM

    @Brian O’Donnell: Says it all really. First we have global conflict with the petro dollar, now we’ve the hydro dollar.

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    Mute Yvonne Whelan
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:37 PM

    96% true then true not false

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    Mute Paul Meade
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:32 PM

    When did Northern Ireland gets its Independence? I heard Scotland voted against Independence but missed the NI vote.

    NI is 2.8% of the population of the UK, although 5 SF MPs have been MIA for decades.

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    Mute Damien Keane
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:51 PM

    No matter how you look at this there is no way the conclusion is accurate

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    Mute Sean @114
    Favourite Sean @114
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:38 PM

    Are those other countries already paying an effective rate of tax (PAYE) of 50% as we are? I’ve no issue with the principle of paying something towards the provision of water. But I do have a problem with it when I an already paying 50%+ in tax, having my pension fund raided for tax, paying a “govt levy” on my health insurance, paying motor tax….. any extra I do pay for water will go towards a bunch of ex-council workers grouped together into a quango awaiting a fat redundancy cheque and pension pay off courtesy of the tax payer

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    Mute KerryBlueMike
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:54 PM

    You are only paying the 50%+ rate over a certain amount… it’s not the rate on all your income.

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    Mute Brinster
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    Oct 7th 2016, 1:30 PM

    @Sean @114:

    If you are paying an effective rate over 50% then either your income is over €750,000 per annum or else you are not telling the truth.

    If its the former, fair play to you but no sympathy.

    If its the latter, stop lying.

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    Mute Michael Fenning
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:35 PM

    Does every other country in eu have water “falling out of the skies” every day or must the import it

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:56 AM

    Some have a lot of rain. Scotland for example. Sweden has huge amounts of water from ice melts. yet they pay for water. We are too tight fisted to pay.

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    Mute Nucky
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:34 PM

    I wouldn’t trust the time out of that auld badgers mouth ….

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    Mute LITTLEONE
    Favourite LITTLEONE
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:18 PM

    Ok so what he said is false because every country does not have water charges and that when fg talk about sf and the north and water charges then that’s also not true.

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    Mute John smith
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:31 PM

    Are u considering my proposal

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    Mute John smith
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:32 PM

    @littleone

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    Mute LITTLEONE
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:38 PM

    @LITTLEONE: @John smith: ah John sorry . I am not . Ring on finger already. But what can I say.

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    Mute Qwerty
    Favourite Qwerty
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:09 PM

    I can mention water charges here, and it’s relevant. Yea! Water charges!

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    Mute Gerard Heery
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:53 PM

    Does every country have vrt,usc.barret

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    Mute pliddy
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:49 PM

    Ridiculous biased conclusion

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    Mute Aoife
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:48 PM

    So what if every other country does something a certain way. That doesnt mean we have to. Every country has its own way of doing things and that’s ok. It’s what makes us different.

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    Mute iohanx
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:22 PM

    Not sure why author chose a survey in US dollars? Could you not go to the EU to find out accurate facts and figures. I don’t think creditable tbh.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:30 PM

    @iohanx: Bit like the EU so…..

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    Mute Stephen Maher
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:25 PM

    Who care’s about anywhere else , this is Ireland and the Irish people have come out in opposition to Irish water and additional water charges.

    So his statement is mostly irrelevant.

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    Mute JoseMacPhisto
    Favourite JoseMacPhisto
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:35 PM

    Actually, there’s a significant amount of people, who like myself, realise that in order to have a modern and safe system, it needs to be paid for. Paying by individual usage likewise seems a fair proposition to these people.

    Most of our water is being lost through an outmoded pipe system that’s not fit for purpose. The water that does get through to some towns has to be boiled first.

    But go ahead; let’s hear it. We already pay for it. It doesn’t matter that every other EU country does it because water is an entitlement. Too often we want things done on the cheap in this country and in the end the money we do front up just goes to waste.

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Oct 7th 2016, 1:05 AM

    water is essential for life it should be free. food is essential for life. It should be free. let’s nationalise tesco.

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    Mute Stephen Maher
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    Oct 7th 2016, 8:21 AM

    Tesco doesn’t produce food you fool.

    But while we are on the subject.

    Farming is a good example of what happens when you privatise something that belongs to a nation.
    The farming industry is funded by tax payers through farm subsidies and Bank loans and we own the banks so we pay twice,
    Tesco gets to purchase the produce from the farmer at a fraction of what it costs to produce .
    Sells the food the nation at 300% mark up and keeps billions in profits.
    Meanwhile in wealthy Ireland a lot of people struggle to put food on the table.

    Also,

    We have millions of acres of land lying unused,
    The state owns the land (us), the banks hold most titles ( we own the banks) who lend money to developers to build who make hundreds of millions in profit, yet a large percentage of Irish people have no homes and are mostly struggling to pay mortgages.

    Water unlike food or land , falls from the sky and once channeled through a system that belongs to us and is funded by us through general taxation we all get to use it, no one makes millions in profit from it and no one goes with out.

    No privatisation of our water please.

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    Mute Michael Clinton
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:56 PM

    Skelator should just keep his skull down and shut up.

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    Mute FlopFlipU
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:55 PM

    Does every other country have usc charges

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    Mute Aoife
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:15 PM

    Exactly. Does every other country carry 42% of the banking debt. Does every other country have such obscenely paid td’s with all the trimmings.does every other country have such restrictive abortion laws. Does every other country have multinationals paying practically zero taxes. This Sean Barrett is selective in his choosing of what is unique from one country to the next. Wouldn’t have anything to do with him being a right wing fachist.

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    Mute Yvonne Clarke
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:59 PM

    How many other European counties pay a few times for their water and ten also receive a bill on top of that ?
    I’d like the answer to be the truth and nothing but the truth…….which is very scarce in this country unlike water.

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    Mute KerryBlueMike
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:46 PM

    Just have a referendum to prevent privatisation and stop the lefties whining.

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    Mute Juan Venegas
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:23 PM

    Oh so we are one of the cheapest, still not the cheapest at something and they want to change it. When we are the most expensive at something, they complaint. Seems that they wants to be the dearest at everything.

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    Mute Beachmaster
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:38 PM

    It was protests that brought that price down, and it’s for a fixed period. I can guarantee Ireland will be one of the most expensive when the cap expires.

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    Mute Dave Doyle
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    Oct 6th 2016, 8:40 PM

    @Juan Venegas: It’s 47 cents per cubic meter here in Bulgaria.
    Late this summer, they ( the municipality) started fitting new drainage and water systems in the village where my house is. They laid the new pipework and i had to dig a trench, buy a pipe and connect it myself to the new drain. That was my responsibility.
    The water is funny and ironic, i had to buy a new water meter 45 Leva (22.50 euro) give it to the fitters. And i had to dig a hole a meter and a half deep and a meter square around the old water meter. pick and shovel job.
    I’ve let down my fellow water warriors, i’m ashamed.

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    Mute Malvolio32
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:48 PM

    Does the water have dry sense of humour?

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:02 PM

    Awful stuff Dave. Thankfully we have a company bought on the cheap from an FG government and given a great contract from same.

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    Mute Catherine Ryan
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    Oct 7th 2016, 1:13 AM

    It changes nothing. The IW tax is about one thing, privatizing yet another irish resource. The 2016 election, where 60 tds were elected because of their anti-IW stance showed how overwhelmingly opposed the majority of the electorate are to IW. It also showed us again what a deplorable bunch of liars and rogues run the country. Fact check that.

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    Mute John Mossy Naz Scales
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    Oct 6th 2016, 9:44 PM

    Fook that dinosaur anyway

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    Mute Dead Mousche
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:28 PM

    Every other country doesn’t get screwed as much as we do with indirect and stealth taxes….food, clothing, alcohol, cigarettes, car tax, petrol etc etc…..we get screwed on everything they can screw us with. IW was the straw that broke the camels back for the people. They government can shove it up their bell ends.

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    Mute JoseMacPhisto
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:36 PM

    Stay classy..

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:35 AM

    But no answer other than a half arsed remark Jose?

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    Mute Rory
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    Oct 7th 2016, 1:01 AM

    Move to Sweden or Austria or Switzerland, then u will think Ireland is cheap

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    Mute alphanautica
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:19 PM

    It’s much fairer that we continue to pay for water services using VAT and Motor tax rather than move to a model to charge people according to their usage. Totally think the water protestors are right.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:32 AM

    And the costs of the billing system should just be ignored?

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:47 AM

    If corbyn came to power would he abolish water charges in the UK? would he abolish property tax. no. why? Because he is a real socialist not like our chances.

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    Mute The Clarifier
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:34 AM

    I live abroad, in a remote part of Europe where there are water charges like other utilities. There are four men living in the house and the yearly bill is around €1000. The water is perfectly safe to drink but as it is taken from the ocean and desalinated it is not nice to taste at all meaning I also have to buy water to drink and cook with. I dont have a problem with any of this. I understand that fresh, clean, drinkable water is a commodity and has a cost of production. I feel spoiled to have been born in Ireland where tap water tasted great and was free

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Oct 7th 2016, 5:56 AM

    I suspect you could say also that you are living in a part of Europe without plentiful natural supply of water. But your 1000 a year is what they need here despite not having a requirement for desalination.

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    Mute Brian McCarthy
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:04 PM

    He claimed that every other country in the EU has water charges
    Northern Ireland is not recognised as being a country in terms of it relationship with the EU. It is just a region of a larger country namely the UK
    On that basis the statement must be considered to be completely true

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    Mute @mdmak33
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:52 AM

    No other country has 12.5% corporations tax,with loopholes to bring it down to 1%.

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:42 AM

    his statement is true. Every other EU country has water charges. northern ireland is not a country. The uk has water charges.

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:43 AM

    I think all you guys want free water. why not free beer as well. We love in a country of scroungers.

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    Mute €uromancer
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    Oct 7th 2016, 8:00 AM

    @Patrick Gough:nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Water_troll ?

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    Mute Paddy Lynn
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    Oct 7th 2016, 3:08 AM

    Drop the water charges. Uisce beatha (water of life) is not the same as tap water (water for life). Tax luxuries not necessities.

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    Mute Seán Domhnall O'Sullivan
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:43 AM

    Why do we continue down the line of it would be Ireland paying for the first time when anyone with a bit of cop on knows that plainly isnt true? We already pay ffs

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    Mute eastsmer #IRExit
    Favourite eastsmer #IRExit
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    Oct 7th 2016, 9:14 AM

    I am sure that all the TD’s have more than enough money to pay for any new tax

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    Mute Ritchie Barry
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    Oct 7th 2016, 10:34 AM

    To be honest probably most country’s are paying water tax but they are not paying triple tax on everything tax on wages food drinks houses rubbish hospitality tax road tax you could go on it’s wrong to work god dam hard week to week and still struggle and then politicians don’t have to worry about a thing cause they get big salaries to be shouting at each other your wrong I’m right

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    Mute Adrian
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    Oct 7th 2016, 11:02 AM

    Does every other country have such a useless, inept, overpaid bunch of politicians!
    Why does Ireland keep getting into trouble every couple of years?

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    Mute J.Hanley #IRExit
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    Oct 7th 2016, 4:08 PM

    When we have free GP care like most other EU countries then I will pay water charges Ok Barrett.
    When I have to pay €50+ to go to the doctor or the dentist I’m afraid introducing water charges in Ireland are out of the question.
    Hence the outrage about suddenly being told to pay for water (yet another inflated utility bill) in a country with an abundance of the stuff by a political class who have no understanding of the hard choices a lot of Irish people have to face everyday choosing between which tax, insurance or utility bill to juggle this week. And these bills are taking everything from us before we can even start actually living. i.e. buying food, clothes, going out etc.
    Barrett and his ilk are so removed from reality they are no longer living in the real world where the majority of Irish people earn less than €25,000 and where the average industrial wage and CSO figures are a farce. If a political party actually represented this majority they would clean up at elections but the problem is they don’t know it’s happening because they are paid too much and have too many perks.

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    Mute Rourkey52.
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    Oct 7th 2016, 2:26 AM

    But using the fact that ‘ every other European country has them ” is a lazy arguement for why we should. Just because they do it does not necessarily follow that we should. Perhaps the other EU countries should use the fact that we don’t have them as an arguement to get rid of them. Turn the tables on them, so to speak !!

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    Mute Brendan Kelly
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    Oct 7th 2016, 1:20 PM

    We still have our 9.e exemption. This means that DOMESTIC water is exempt from charges.

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    Mute Neuville-Kepler62F
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    Oct 8th 2016, 3:45 PM

    Paying once for water .. OK .. with exemptions for inability to pay
    Paying Twice for water in general taxation … daft!
    Paying 3 times for water … with all the burden on pre-2008 Car Owners … outrageous Mr Barrett

    (€444 is the average Motor Tax for pre 2008 cars
    €215 is the average Motor Tax for post 2008 cars
    106% more tax on average paid by owners of older cars – (Dept of Finance figures – 2012)

    RTE News on 3 Times payment for water in Ireland …
    https://www.facebook.com/LocalPropertyTax/videos/750681811697373/

    Change.org Petition
    https://www.change.org/p/unfair-car-tax-law

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    Mute Ciaran Cahill
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    Oct 7th 2016, 5:05 PM

    Multiple European cities have remunicipalised their own water systems after they copped on it was a corporate scam to fleece everyone.

    https://www.tni.org/en/article/180-cities-take-back-public-control-of-water-showing-remunicipalisation-is-here-to-stay

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    Mute padraig
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    Oct 7th 2016, 12:10 PM

    We could sell water from the river shannon to Europe and Dublin could be a test case on how we would supply same

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    Mute Joe M Donald
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    Oct 6th 2016, 11:28 PM

    This is all BS, it’s just another failed justification to Tax is in order to fund a utility that will be privatised. So rich people can get their dividends on the backs of all the hard working people of this rain drenched island. REALLY WAKE UP it is all set up for privatisation and the likes of DOB and his likes can suck the life out of our society, while sucking on cigars and caviar while we like disobedient slaves complain about a deteriorating service and escalating payments. Usual outcome of any European or Government initiative. WAKE UP LETS HAVE A REFERENDUM ON PUBLIC OWNERSHIP OF OUR WATER. Don’t stop protesting no matter how your politics are.

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    Mute Joe M Donald
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:47 PM

    Who cares if other European countries have water charges. My grandmother used to say it Johnny down the road sticks his finger in the fire are you going to do the same, err no way gran.

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    Mute Joe M Donald
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    Oct 6th 2016, 10:43 PM

    Really all this bull s… About water charges . We all know , yes WE all know it is being set up for privatisation and the Irish mentality of being held to ransom for something that is a basic human right( also the fact that we could change the national emblem to an umbrella) being in the hands of the likes of DOB and his ilk just turns out blood to eh water.

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