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EVERY WEEKDAY EVENING, TheJournal.ie brings you the five biggest stories of the day.
1. #BUDGET 2019: Here are the main points you need to know.
2. #BUDGET 2019: All the latest news and reaction to the Budget is in our liveblog.
3. #REST IN PEACE: Friends and family of Emma Mhic Mhathúna have gathered in Co Kerry to pay their final respects.
4. #US: Donald Trump’s ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, has resigned.
5. #HEALTH: 45 people have been diagnosed with mumps following an outbreak in the west.
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This country has a great reputation abroad for producing fresh, naturally grown and produced foods. Allow this crap into our country and we can kiss 40 years of hard earned kudos goodbye.
And we do the best horse meat.
Sadly Ireland imports tons of GM animal feed from brazil and elsewhere which is fed to livestock. This has been going on for years. Ye have been eating GM meat and dairy without even knowing it. That Kerrygold isn’t quite as grass fed as André thinks.
Oh but there’s far more sinister things in this deal than GM food…
Why can’t we just have an old skool free trade deal? We don’t charge import Levy’s (let’s get rid of EU VAT) and we broadly respect each others laws? Instead we have these monstrosities running to thousands of pages purposely written and worded so ordinary people can’t understand them.
I agree. Countries who enter into trade agreements with the US inevitably get the raw end of the deal.
Agree, but GMOs fairly dodgy too I reckon – read here from the American Academy of Environmental Medicine about the evidence that it is a terrible mistake: http://www.responsibletechnology.org/gmo-dangers
Thousands of sheep, buffalo, and goats in India died after grazing on Bt cotton plants
Mice eating GM corn for the long term had fewer, and smaller, babies
More than half the babies of mother rats fed GM soy died within three weeks, and were smaller
Testicle cells of mice and rats on a GM soy change significantly
By the third generation, most GM soy-fed hamsters lost the ability to have babies
Rodents fed GM corn and soy showed immune system responses and signs of toxicity
Cooked GM soy contains as much as 7-times the amount of a known soy allergen
Soy allergies skyrocketed by 50% in the UK, soon after GM soy was introduced
The stomach lining of rats fed GM potatoes showed excessive cell growth, a condition that may lead to cancer.
Studies showed organ lesions, altered liver and pancreas cells, changed enzyme levels, etc.
Here’s a really useful report written by independent scientists about GM technology. It gives a great introduction to the science behind the technology and what the technology is actually used for. Like vaccines and global warming, the scientific consensus strongly supports their safety.
http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/9/Making-Sense-of-GM-Final-HR.pdf
Its more TTIP was agreed outside of public consultation, it is bias towards the US (As a Brit I am also deeply worried about its affects on the NHS), the EU doesn’t really need it and well I find it crazy for a foreign investor to be able to sue a government for looking after their own country’s interest.
The effect of soy us likely independent of the fact that they are GMO and dependent on the fact they already contain phyto-estrogens. None of which is a reason to ban GMO but an indication of the need to study in greater detail.
@leonie – scientific truth is not determined by consensus! i.e. Majority rule. It is determined by the scientific method – something being observable and repeatable.
Paul, on broad topics like climate change, safety of vaccinations, evolution, GM safety etc, the scientific consensus is the ‘collective judgment, position, and opinion of the community of scientists in a particular field of study’, who study and interpret the raw data. There are billions of ‘scientific truths’ or data points feeding into every scientific consensus, and the strength of the consensus is usually a reflection of how robust the scientific method employed is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus
In the case of GM food being safe to eat…
1) There is no plausible mechanism for DNA to pass from the stomach into the cells to cause damage/mutation
2) There is no evidence that DNA has ever passed from the stomach into the cells
3) Approximately 1% of our dietary intake is DNA anyway (meat, fish, vegetables, bacteria, viruses, fungi that we ingest all contain DNA)
4) GM foods have been eaten for almost 20 years in the US
5) Approximately 80% of processed foods in the US contain GM ingredients
6) No evidence has been found that these foods have ever caused harm
7) Despite all this, national authorities follow guidelines to assess the safety of new GM foods case by case
8) The GM version of the food is compared to one made from conventional crops and checked to see whether there is a nutritional difference between the two or a heightened risk of allergy or toxicity
(http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/9/Making-Sense-of-GM-Final-HR.pdf)
In the case of the GM debate, the scientific method has been employed in every aspect of its safety and GM foods have repeated been demonstrated to be safe for human consumption. This is why the scientific consensus supports the claim that GM foods are safe to eat.
I wouldn’t use the fact that they are eating GMO foods in the US as part of your argument. The majority of Europeans do not want it.
Why is this so difficult to accept, that we the majority don’t want this mutant food on our plates. You have to accept that not that long ago it took quiet a while to prove that smoking and the use of asbestos and many other products were extremely bad for us.
The biggest question of all is why would we want to eat GMO food produced mainly by Monsanto who developed agent orange back in the day for use in the Vietnam war.
Big corporation pay for the scientific research to convince the gullible folk that all is well and good with these foods with the high profit margins. Hopefully reason will prevail in the EU and this deal will be scrapped.
Much of what you refer to as consensus in areas such as climate, darwinism etc employs a method known as post-normal science – i.e. one begins with a conclusion, normally in alignment with one’s belief, ideology or even one’s financial dependency (e.g. Government Grant etc )- and then searches out facts to come into alignment with that conclusion, while omitting any inconvenient truths that don’t agree or threaten one’s position, usually academic and the funding that goes with it.
That comment above was @ Leonie
I don’t think anyone wants this TTIP crap in the EU
Fully agree
“So when your raspberries are lasting in the fridge two weeks, how is that possible? Because they are radiated”
Radiation is not the same as being genetically modified, by the way I am against GM foods
True. When I was living in Italy I wouldn’t touch the fruit or veg in the supermarket, a bell pepper would be three times the size of one here for example. Carrots the size of a child’s arm, it scared me. Feck that, Au natural thank you very much!
We’ve been genetically modifying our food for centuries, the only difference now is that we can more effectively target the characteristics we want.
Top chefs they may be but i have seen 5 year olds make better posters than that.
Are chefs biologists now?
Culinary scientists
No, chefs. It’s a vocation, not a science.
He is absolutely right..
Ireland should nor allow corrupt Zio / US Corporate agricultural poison take over our country….
http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2014/21/cbd369d6d769ec14ce1eb4db1b60f781f796bae5.jpg
I’m sure Kevin Thornton is a cracking chef, but I don’t understand why he thinks he’s qualified to pass judgement on a scientific matter which he appears to have little or no understanding of.
Nor do I understand why TheJournal is helping him promote his anti-science agenda.
Btw, radiation and genetics are different things…
//sheesh
Well, that’s a stupid thing to say. Thornton is talking about quality, not safety: “Our stance should be an example to the rest of the world of how food quality should be”
It’s the Journal, whom you accuse of anti-science, who brought in the safety issue, as brought into the article as a counter-point from Huw Jones, a scientist at Rothamsted Research in the UK.
I will concede your point about radiation and genetics being different, which is the most enlightening statement I have ever heard.
I’ve posted this before and I will post it again.
Organic food: no better for you, or the planet (New Scientist, 2012)
Meta-analyses hundreds of studies show that there is no benefit to organic produce over conventionally farmed foods.
Can you list out the key points of the Monsanto Protection Act then Jack? And answer me this why does such a corporation need immunity from prosecutions?
Don’t expect people on this site to apply reason and logic. The vast majority of them are headbangers who believe they were created by an invisible friendly giant who lives in the sky. The notion that people have done a blind study which conclusively proves that there is no benefit to eating ‘organic’ food over other food is clearly rubbish because for them organic food has an aura or indefinable immeasurable quality of goodness pretty much identical to that of the aforementioned invisible friend.
@Joe That is in no way relevant. Try reading the article I posted. It isn’t long.
Jack Ripper … Take US Corporate round up poison as opposed to home garden grown and see how many years will be cut off your life…
http://ironmumkarla.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/GMO-cartoon.jpg
@Michelle
I’ll call your single study cited in a mainstream newspaper and raise you the 346 used as the basis of the two meta-analyses cited in the actual science magazine I cited.
@Frank
If our food is poisoning us all then why is life expectancy still increasing?
@Jack Ripper
Um, Michelle’s article refers to a meta-study of 343 peer-reviewed studies:
“The results are based on an analysis of 343 peer-reviewed studies from around the world – more than ever before – which examine differences between organic and conventional fruit, vegetables and cereals.”
Good article on vice mag about this trade agreement:
”
The TTIP’s real aim is to reduce “non-tariff” barriers to trade, otherwise known as European laws. In order to boost trade, markets will be further deregulated and standards will be “harmonized”. This could result in GMOs appearing in European supermarkets, the eradication of data privacy laws and the lowering of environmental standards, as well as whatever’s contained in the secret parts of the deal, which won’t be brought to light until they’re agreed upon by the European Commission and US officials.
Also, corporations can sue governments for changing laws that affect them. Such as re-nationalising gas, oil or water. Or cigarette packaging (James Reilly):
“Philip Morris is suing Australia for making plain packaging mandatory on cigarettes; and when Ecuador tried to re-nationalized their oil industry, Occidental Petroleum Corporation sued them and won $1.7 billion, more than the company’s net income for any of the three previous quarters.
Oh and by the way lots of people including myself would now be dead if it wasn’t for insulin .. A product of ….. Yes you guessed it … Genetic modification
Interesting to see the “natural is good” brigade suddenly go silent about the evils of artificial drugs when their lives are at stake.
The “natural is good brigade”?? Does that make you the “natural is bad brigade”?
Nope. “Natural” does’t really mean anything at all, it can be good or bad.
Most of the anti-GMO arguments seem to resolve sooner or later to “natural is good” though.
My mistake, first time I’ve heard of a word that doesn’t mean anything.i thought it meant “existing in or derived from nature; not made or caused by humankind.” You should get on to Oxford Dictionary and tell them to update the word natural to a blank space.
None of our food is natural any more. GM does what we have been doing for years but in a shorter time. The plants we eat now have been cross bread around the world to produce higher yielding or better resistance to pests and drought.
we cross bread our dogs, horses, cats, we cross bread anything we come into contact with if we thing it will benefit us.
Regardless of whether they are safe or not, the last thing farmers need is having to pay for new seeds constantly because they’re made to be infertile. Also, patents should not apply to living things. Total madness.
Why would farmers choose to use the GM based crops if they are worse off for doing so?
There must be some advantage to using the GM seeds that would propel them to choose them over conventional seeds.
A few backhanders would sort that out. This is Ireland after all.
You’re making no sense. If it were more expensive for the farmer to use GM seeds why would he choose to use them?
It has to do with the ‘spend money to make money’ principle. Spend more money each year buying new seeds but in return have a much increased yield and a more reliable crop which should increase profit.
farmers have been using GMO’s in this country for years, all but the organic suppliers of animal feed have GMO’s in the feed. In fact finding animal feed in Ireland that is GMO free can be a costly endeavor.
There are 2 separate parts of the GM food issue that people need to be clear about: the science of GM food and the Patenting of the GM products.
The patenting system has and is being being abused by private organisations for profit and is causing social problems in areas of the world whose regulators aren’t strong enough to keep these organisations in check. Regarding the safety of GM food, I originally had my doubts, but after studying the matter I had to conclude that it is safe (I have Masters Degree in Biological Sciences btw).
People, who argue that the EU produces enough food and doesn’t need GM, need to be aware that agriculture is responsible for 11% of the EU greenhouse gas emissions. Agriculture is Ireland’s biggest contributor to Greenhouses gases (approx. 30%). Globally GM technology has reduced pesticide spraying by 224 million kg and as a result, decreased the environmental impact associated with pesticide use by more than 15%. GM technology has also significantly reduced the release of greenhouse gas emissions from agriculture, which, in 2005, was equivalent to removing 4 million cars from the roads. Further progress can be made here. The EU would be unwise to ignore the environmental and economic benefits of having crops that require less fertilisers and pesticides and have a longer shelf life. Remember we throw away 30% of the food we buy in Ireland.
I don’t know enough about business to comment on TTIP.
You should know enough about corporations and government to know that they only care about each other.
The way the world’s population is growing GM is the only future for food production.
The many myths about organic food in order to sell it at a higher price have never been proven to be true.
There is no scientific evidence to suggest organic food is tastier, more nutritious and better for you. In fact in most blind test tastes people choose GM over organic foods.
Growing GM food is more cost effective and efficient using less resources including using less land per yield.
Typical scare mongering and anti scientific beliefs have driven the rise in the popularity of organic food in recent years.
If a GM natural drug that cured cancer was invented tomorrow no one would have a problem.
Taste is…..a matter of taste. I think most people buy organic food because of the limited amount of chemicals used and not for nutritious or taste reasons.
One of the main issues with GM foods, particularly grains, is the patents held on them by large multi-nationals like Monsanto who have overseen the loss of 95% of the grain varieties in the USA over the last two decades. This does two things – it leaves us reliant for food on a large (or group of large) company/s who “own” the rights to the grain and drastically reduces the bio-diversity of our planet which is the current main threat to life in Earth.
Thats a lie if the governments of the world banded together and started cultivating the land that grew drugs and tobacco we’d have a totally different situation ,populist nonsense.
Why is there such a fear of GM foods? It’s clear that people don’t realize that humans have been genetically modifying plants and animals for millennia. Sure, up until the 20th century, it took decades and perhaps centuries to genetically modify via selective breeding but people must understand that the crops and livestock today are not “natural” but genetically modified through generations of human interference to improve them for our consumption. Doing this in a lab actually just speeds up the process. But of course the organic and natural food industry has a ton of cash to make by getting people to believe it is “un-natural”.
No, genetic modification is totally different from hybridisation, where growers produce seed that combines the desired traits of two pure parent lines in the first generation – plants that are compatible. With genetic modification you are doing something totally unnatural – splicing in genes that do not belong together, perhaps from several species (eg fish genes into a plant) — a phenomenon that never occurs in nature, and then releasing it into the wild. This is an experiment we do NOT want, with completely unknown outcomes that will be irreversible.
It is not anti-science – it is anti this particular form of science. In addition, the big multi-nationals like Monsanto that control this activity have only profit in mind and when you get food seeds that are created by a corporation and patented, and made infertile so you cannot gather your own seeds from the crop – it creates a vicious dependency on that corporation to buy their seeds every year. Food seeds should not be patented – food is the stuff of life and we cannot give control of it to sinister multi-nationals. This must be resisted.
Here’s a former GMO scientist speaking out about the dangers, and how scientific research shows that diets containing engineered corn or soya cause serious health problems in laboratory mice and rats. http://foodrevolution.org/blog/former-pro-gmo-scientist/
they also have goats that produce spider silk in their milk.
Umm, I am afraid you are dead wrong. Genes from many species end up being shifted into other species. It is called ‘lateral gene transfer’ and is a well documented natural phenomenon. Often mediated by naturally occurring viruses and bacteria. Indeed, that inspired the molecular biology that allows genetic modification. I’m not 100% for or against GMO foods, but being blatantly scientifically uninformed is hardly helpful to the debate.
I agree foods must not be patented. But just to clarify your misunderstanding, hybridization is the combination of different organisms, combining parentage selectively is selective breeding and something going back as far as Mendel hundreds of years ago. It’s ironic that the Irish here complain so much. Why do you think when you go into Tesco that almost every fruit and veg is a perfect brightly colored shiny specimen? Compare that to Spain where I’m always surprised at hour disfigured looking their fresh produce is. Disfigured because it is natural and unmodified. We are already eating modified food. If it is a particular branch or arm of GMO that people are against then they should be specific, rather than bash the whole process of GMO which has the potential to massively improve food supplies
@Michelle that blog is commercial (although nicely hidden) and so it does not represent a non-biased view.
There is GM going on in pretty much every microbiology lab in this country. You are attaching some mystical quality to a string of chemicals and ignoring the reality that gm happens almost every second in nature. Some of those mods work and that is called evolution. Some don’t and that is called extinction. If we can put pest resistance into corn so we can increase yields without using some nasty chemical I am all for it. If a private company pays for the research it is entitled to reap the rewards. Too much rubbish being spouted here by people who don’t know what they are talking about.
And here is a former Greenpeace leader who is now, thankfully, pro-GMO. http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/11/ex-greenpeace-president-says-groups-opposition-to-genetically-modified-golden-rice-costing-thousands-of-lives/
Your comment shows a complete lack of knowledge in this regard. Interpecies genetic modification has not been carried out for “millennia’. Watch GM Roulette, its on youtube and inform yourself a little better and then research a bit more.
I completely agree with this article. We should not be looking towards the US or striving towards their way of doing things especially in relation to good production. If anything we should be reverting back to old ways. Honest, transparent ways of producing good. It may be a little more expensive but I for one am willing to pay for food that is “clean”
Never heard of him…….
Top chef he may be but I get the feeling he doesn’t know what he’s talking about here … More ill educated scare mongering methinks
Or maybe he loves food in it’s natural form and hates the overuse of chemicals and the power that multinationals hold. 50 years ago if you wanted strawberries, you only got them in the summer. Now we can get them all year round imported from Israel or wherever, doused in chemicals to give them a longer shelf life. We can get perfect looking fruit and veg that can only be attributed to GM. And for the people banging on that organic hasn’t been proved to be tastier or healthier, I’ll take my chances with local, in season, chemical-free (for the most part) food. Ask yourself this; why is that organic producers have to meet the strictest standards, at an abominable financial cost, to prove that they don’t use chemicals, yet all the other companies can use whatever chemicals they like and never even have to tell you? Why don’t the chemical dense food companies use labels to inform you that their food is man made and contains f*ck all nutrients because it’s produced in a lab?
Don’t get me wrong, conspiracy theories aren’t my thing but educate yourself when it comes to what you put into your body.
Israel douse and chemicals I think you’re on the wrong story here Foxy, the massacre of the Palestinians is a few stories further down, or up.
The TTIP deal is flying under the radar but if you read up on it it’s terrifying. The consequences of it being put in place threaten so many aspects of our lives. Companies could sue a country for laws passed over riding safe guards and effectively introducing corporate rule. People really need to read up on this as it will have drastic and far reaching consequences
In discarding the irrationality of religion post Christian Europe has also discarded rationality and science preferring to fill the void of faith with the mumbo jumbo of esoteric thought and anti knowledge. Sad really.
Great. Now that we have a top chef advising on food policy, can we ask for a top footballer to advise on orthopaedic surgery policy, and a top teacher for advice on vaccination policy? The fact that this turnip doesn’t know the difference between GM and irradiation suggests that he might not be the best person to turn to for their expertise. Mr Thornton would do well to learn a bit about science before he tries to deny it.
http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/9/Making-Sense-of-GM-Final-HR.pdf
https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_specter_the_danger_of_science_denial
Exactly Leonie. What would a chef who breeds cattle know about food? Well done you…
Well the fact he can’t tell the difference between irradiation and GM says a lot, don’t you think? Regardless, he’s probably wrong about his raspberries too. A little fact checking will tell you that the EU has extremely restricted allowance on irradiation. Most European countries limit irradiation at a specific dose for just a few products (herbs, spices and seasonings). I don’t know where Mr Thorton is sourcing his raspberries, but the fact is, given that Ireland has no facility to irradiate food and most of the EU doesn’t irradiate fruit anyway, it’s unlikely that it’s irradiation making them last longer, and more likely down to selective breeding, better storage/handling, better/faster transport, better packaging and more effective use of chemicals. Regardless, I’m a lot happier eating raspberries that have been treated with irradiation, than ones that are covered in ‘organic’ manure and laced with all sorts of faecal based bacterial contamination.
Totally agree. It’s just manipulative use of a word which has negative connotations for most people. Unfortunately most of his listeners will not be educated enough to spot his lack of understanding. Maybe I should ask him, when I put my food in the microwave to heat it by irradiating it with microwaves, am I also genetically modifying it?
Interestingly, for the past 100 years, farmers/plant scientists were exposing seeds to radiation to force random mutations, and then selecting the plants with favorable traits to breed and/or forcibly mutate again. Gene splicing has just made this process far more efficient and precise. It’s a real shame that people don’t take the time to understand the science behind GM technology. It holds so much promise, but if the scaremongering ignorant conspiracy theorists are going to be held in higher esteem by our media than the scientists who actually know what they’re talking about, then our progress will be stymied, with serious consequences for all but the most privileged countries.
If you are against GM foods then you are helping to destroy the environment and kill millions of people. It’s that simple.
GM crops allow us to make more food with less land, water and other inputs and protect the environment. Vitamin A enriched rich as stopped millions of poor people in Asia going blind. Farmers in developing countries are so desperate to get GM seeds they are smuggled across borders.
If you are anti-GM you are anti-science and so self-absorbed you would rather millions die instead of learning more. You are worse than the worst oil baron.
http://www.marklynas.org/2013/01/lecture-to-oxford-farming-conference-3-january-2013/
David you do realise the point of GM foods. GM foods doesn’t make it easier to produce food it, it means that farmers can spray deadly chemicals on food. Killing only the weeds and pests and not the plant.
For example Monsanto are the pioneers of GM crops. They also produce ‘Roundup’. The idea is that you sow your crop and then to kill off the weeds you spray roundup on it. the crop is fine but it kills the weeds. The problem is Roundup is harmful to humans when consumed. Roundup is also known to kill bees who are vital to Agriculture. Monsanto have recently bought a company who were doing a study to see what was killing the bees. Quiet ironic really.
Sygenta are another company who produce GM crops. German farmer Gottfried Glöckner has been using GM crops since 1995. He also used GM maize or corn. In his own words. “In the year 2000 I experienced the first incidences of infertility, sicknesses and even deaths as well as severe birth defects in newborn calves.”
There are numerous cases of GM rice making people very sick in Asia. This all goes unreported. The food we consume today is fine. Don’t fix it if its not broke. If people don’t want fish DNA in their food they should have a choice to choose it or not.
These are chefs not scientists, that radiated comment just shows how little they know
So … What exactly is the problem with gm then
A bit like adding fluoride to the water causes all sorts of illnesses including osteoporosis. They have taken it out of the water supply to Dáil Éireann.
Keep perpetrating unsubstantiated myths like that and we might have to remove the first letter of your surname!
People who don’t understand it campaign against it, stupid people.
Load of twaddle by ill informed individuals. Look at the real evidence and independently verified facts. GM crops are perfectly safe and undergo rigorous tests. We simply cannot feed future generations without the increased yields and improved nutrition provided. There is huge promise to improve several life threatening nutritional deficiencies like some forms of blindness. Much of the world is using such crops and hence have lower cost so eu farmers can’t compete and are in danger of disappearing. Many nasty chemical residues from the pesticides otherwise needed disappear because they aren’t used in gm crops. Most importantly. Everyone who buys food other than from their local farmer here is already eating gm crops. Heads haven’t sprung up on our shoulders. The superstition has to stop!
ever think it is the plants modifying us to their needs. the fatter people are the more they eat, the more plants we need.
humans have been modifying food since they first settled and started cross breeding plants/animals. like someone else said, most food stuff today is GM in on way or another.
we also cannot rely on 1 or 2 strains of super food, it will reach a point when evolution catches up and destroys the super strains. leaving us with nothing.
There are studies since 2012 which show the contrary. It is not so clear cut either way.
There is certainly proof that organic fruit & veg does have a higher level of antioxidants but whether this is nutritionaly beneficial is up for debate.
Then there is the question of pollution of water sources from pesticides and fertilizers and also the soil errosion caused by these.
The article you linked to doesnt even mention that that particular study found organic beef farming to be proven far better for the environment. With regard to fruit/veg & cereals is not so cut and dry.
A company that manufactures automotive vehicles simply should not be allowed engage in food production. It is an abomination. We’ll have potatoes tasting like brake fluid and strawberries with antifreeze in them.
End of.
Because people want to buy potatoes that taste like brake fluid ?
You sir are an idiot. End off.
Just make them clearly label all gm produce so consumers know what their buying
gmo is seed of death , gmo plants killing bees and human in USA millions protest against gmo but look at media is silence why because they don’t wants to know you truth.
GM foods shown to be dangerous: http://dailyhealthpost.com/seralini-study-on-gmos-re-published-after-scientific-censorship/
Sooo john .. When ya start up a business you have to choose what you are gonna do forever and never expand/diversify…
Big business will steam roll through the dail guaranteed
I’m genuinely dumbfounded by the complete lack of knowledge people have with regards to GM food. People really need to do a little research and stop believing what they’ve been told to believe.
Paul Murphy is a TD now?
I tend to buy products on irish shelves which voluntarily label their product gm free or non gmo, more of them every week
I com
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