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'A person's sexual orientation is not up for debate': O'Gorman moves to outlaw conversion therapy in Ireland

The move comes after a new cross-party all-island coalition this week called for the practice to be banned.

MINISTER FOR CHILDREN Roderic O’Gorman has moved to ban conversion therapy in Ireland and tasked officials with exploring ways to outlaw the practice in the Republic. 

Conversion therapy refers to any form of treatment proposed to change a person’s sexual orientation or to suppress a person’s gender identity. There is a commitment in the Programme for Government to legislate to ban it. 

It’s been confirmed officials at the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth have now prepared a scoping paper on the issue and are currently engaging with the Department of Health to forward proposals. 

Speaking to The Journal, O’Gorman said the Government “must be proactive in banning practices that not only propagandise harmful and discriminatory messages, but ones that also have serious negative consequences on a young person’s mental health, with the potential to inflict long-lasting damage.”

“Legislating for a ban on conversion therapy will send a clear and unambiguous message to everyone, both younger and older, that a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression is not up for debate.

A ban would especially protect young people who may be subject to such ‘therapies’ due to external pressures .

The move comes after a new cross-party all-island coalition this week called for the practice of conversion therapy to be banned in Ireland.

The Anti Conversion Therapy Coalition (ACTC), which launched this week, was set up to push for the practice to be banned across the island of Ireland and raise awareness that conversion therapy has harmed many people in the past. 

“A lot of people up North would know that it still goes on,” said Christine O’Mahony, a member of ACTC. “We’re looking to find survivors to help with the campaign, it has affected a lot of people.”

“There are people [in the Republic] speaking out but a lot of people don’t speak about it because it’s such a triggering thing,” said O’Mahony. 

A number of politicians including Fianna Fáil’s Malcolm Byrne, independent Senator Alice Mary Higgins and Fine Gael’s Neale Richmond have backed ACTC’s campaign. 

In 2018, Sinn Féin Senator Fintan Warfield’s proposed to ban the practice with the Prohibition of Conversion Therapies Bill which would prohibit conversion therapy as “a deceptive and harmful act or practice against a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and, or gender expression.”

Almost 20 senators co-signed the bill when it was first put forward but the bill has only reached the committee stage in the Seanad.

In December, almost 400 global leaders, including former president Mary McAleese and anti-apartheid campaigner Desmond Tutu, called for the practice to be banned in countries around the world. 

In the United States, 33 current and past students at federally funded Christian colleges filed a federal lawsuit against the US Department of Education this month. 

The suit claims the religious exemption the schools are given that allow them to have discriminatory policies is unconstitutional because they receive government funding, the Washington Post reported

“The Department’s inaction leaves students unprotected from the harms of conversion therapy, expulsion, denial of housing and healthcare, sexual and physical abuse and harassment, as well as the less visible, but no less damaging, consequences of institutionalised shame, fear, anxiety and loneliness,” according to the suit. 

Ian Power of SpunOut.ie told The Journal that a number of teenagers and young people have contacted his organisation after attempts to force them to undergo conversion therapy. 

“It’s a secretive and manipulative activity,” said Power, who said that some parents have forced their children to undergo the practice in the past. 

Power said the practice in Ireland “is quite insidious” and occurs through connections to people who carry out different types of conversion therapy.

Later in life, said Power, gay and bisexual people can still be affected by the practice. 

We’ve found people who may be in their mid-20s or late-20s who were subjected to this process who are struggling with their identity … they are out or may be in same-sex relationships but they’re still struggling with their identity because they’ve told they’re unnatural.

Power said the practice is unregulated, not evidence-based and can take a number of forms. “For those it is happening to it can have a devastating impact on them,” he said. 

In Northern Ireland, Communities Minister Deirdre Hargey said in March that a rush to ban gay conversion therapy in the North could lead to ineffective laws that enable the practice to continue.

Sinn Féin’s Hargey said she would like to bring forward draft legislation immediately, but told MLAs she had received expert advice that more time was needed to ensure the law was watertight. 

She said administrations elsewhere in the UK and Ireland had encountered problems implementing prohibitions.

NO FEE TAOISEACH MIN O GORMAN PRESS CONF JB3 Children's Minister Roderic O'Gorman RollingNews.ie RollingNews.ie

Hargey said she was working with an expert panel to put together Stormont’s sexual orientation strategy.

The minister said it was important to establish the scale of gay conversion treatment in Northern Ireland and the different names the practice is given.

“I don’t want to leave any loophole in the legislation that this practice may continue and therefore the legislation would be meaningless,” she told MLAs.

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    Mute chiqey
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:25 PM

    Surprised it’s not banned already

    309
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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 11:09 PM

    Lumping gay people with transgender people like this law does is deliberate, calculated, planned and also very bad for gay people.

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    Mute Seán Ó Briain
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:15 PM

    Proper order to ban it. You can’t convert someone, they are who they are. Mostly used by religious parents who can’t cope with their child being gay. It does nothing to help the child, only to protect the ego of the parents.

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    Mute Gerard Lovett
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    Apr 15th 2021, 6:13 PM

    @thesaltyurchin: you’re a w*nker

    65
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    Mute Hairy Teeth
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    Apr 15th 2021, 6:15 PM

    @thesaltyurchin: that is completely and utterly different.

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    Mute Ger
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    Apr 15th 2021, 6:24 PM

    @thesaltyurchin: no you’re completely wrong. People who are going through that process will tell you they’re changing to who they really are.

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    Mute David Bishop
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    Apr 15th 2021, 7:50 PM

    @Ger: who they think they are. There is no way for anyone to know what it’s like to be the opposite sex.

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    Mute Clanrickard
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:01 PM

    @Gerard Lovett: He’s spot on. If sex can be changed why not sexual orientation?

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    Mute JustMeHere
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:41 PM

    @Clanrickard: sex cannot be changed, gender can. Do keep up.

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    Mute Squarepeg01
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    Apr 15th 2021, 11:18 PM

    @JustMeHere: how about these gems from Scientific American in 2019: “Simply put, the idea of a sexual binary isn’t scientifically useful.” And later in the same article: “[T]he science is clear and conclusive: sex is not binary, transgender people are real.” No mention of gender there. You’ve fallen for the bait and switch tactic used by transgender adtivists, but don’t feel bad – it’s designed to confuse.

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    Mute Asid
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    Apr 16th 2021, 1:22 AM

    @Ger: mental illness aided and abetted by a woke society afraid to offend

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    Mute thesaltyurchin
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    Apr 16th 2021, 12:08 PM

    @Gerard Lovett: I think you’ve misunderstood my now deleted comment. I would be in support of all this Freedom of choice should be the most fundamental human right. I just feel that the wording limits us and pits us against each other, as I was trying to highlight. “they are who they are” for example is a terrible way to put it, it’s completely open to misunderstanding. But you know, way to read between the lines Gerard.

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    Mute Dawid Grzybowski
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:28 PM

    Should have been done way quicker, it serves no purpose apart from making people feel excluded and that something’s wrong with them

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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 11:11 PM

    @Dawid Grzybowski: Sexual orientation and gender identity are separate issues. They should not be lumped together in this law,

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    Mute Helen van der Post
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    Apr 15th 2021, 6:31 PM

    This bill has nothing to do with conversion of gay people, It all to do with GENDER IDENTITY and allowing children to self-declare their gender and have it AFFIRMED. This has happened in other countries where parents have lost medical rights over their children. NOT to affirm a child’s self-declared gender will be considered “conversion therapy”. Transitioning a child who might grow up to be gay is the real conversion therapy going on here. Can everybody please WAKE UP.

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    Mute Paul Kelleher
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:46 PM

    @Helen van der Post: Correct! But why leave facts get in the way of a tunnel vision activist.

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    Mute Dean
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    Apr 15th 2021, 9:20 PM

    @Helen van der Post:
    Intersex people don’t know their gender until they grow up, interestingly. And often get assigned the wrong gender at birth

    So it’s understandable that (non-intersex) people may have a deep sense of being cisgender or transgender. Male/female/non-binary.

    I try understand by speaking with Trans people.

    People can only transition when they’re adults, like everywhere. After going through years of medical talks.

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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 9:42 PM

    @Dean: gender is meaningless. It is a feeling. There are 2 sexes – male and female.Intersex people have a sex. The gender lobby needs to stop talking on behalf of the intersex population .

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    Mute Dónal Mac Cormaic
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    Apr 16th 2021, 12:19 AM

    @Helen van der Post: I see

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    Mute David Jordan
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    Apr 16th 2021, 2:51 PM

    @Helen van der Post: You are misinformed.

    In this Act—
    “conversion therapy”—
    (a) means any practice or treatment by any person that seeks to change, suppress
    and, or eliminate a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and, or gender
    expression; and
    (b) does not include any practice or treatment, which does not seek to change a
    person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and, or gender expression, or
    which—
    (i) provides assistance to an individual undergoing a gender transition; or
    (ii) provides acceptance, support and understanding of a person, or a
    facilitation of a person’s coping, social support and identity exploration
    and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions;

    2
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    Mute Annette Neary
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    Apr 16th 2021, 11:41 PM

    @Dean: “Intersex people” are still usually male or female. Klinefelter’s = Male, Turner’s = female.

    It’s completely irrelevant to intersex (actual evidence that no link between being “transgender” & intersex”.

    Besides, “gender identity” is a belief system based on stereotypes: prefer blue, soccer, trousers to pink, dolls & skirts? Reductive, sexist rubbish.

    And the “affirmative” approach for children? No evidence…

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    Mute Pól Ó'hAodha
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:27 PM

    Good stuff! I think we can all agree that gay conversation therapy is abhorrant.

    Now, how does this relate to opposing puberty blockers being prescribed for children that are suffering from gender dysphoria? I know that this has been an issue in Canada

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/03/18/man-arrested-for-discussing-childs-gender-in-court-order-violation/amp/

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    Mute Móin
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    Apr 15th 2021, 6:51 PM

    @Pól Ó’hAodha: Note the use of “young person” to avoid saying “children”

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    Mute Sean Ryan
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    Apr 15th 2021, 7:56 PM

    Actual conversation therapy, yes absolutely ban it. I’m surprised it’s not banned. Therapeutic questioning, however, is essential to get to the bottom of lots of issues, including gender dysphoria. Affirmation only approaches are rarely, if ever, used in mental health and do not support long term changes.

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    Mute sean o'dhubhghaill
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    Apr 15th 2021, 7:21 PM

    Before we all cheer and clap, could we get a decent working definition of ‘Sexual Orientation’ please? Surely if somebody has a sexual orientation towards minors, they are crying out for conversion therapy?

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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 7:37 PM

    Paedophilia is already a criminal offence, That’s not changing,

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    Mute Brendan Harlowe
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    Apr 15th 2021, 7:57 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: again here’s comes the “devils advocate “…. claiming a wish to abuse children is an alternative sexual identity . And can’t see the difference between consenting adults and wanting to use children for sexual gratification

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    Mute Nathan Henry
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:03 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: Pedophilia is a mental disorder, not a sexual orientation. Sexual orientation deals with both sex and gender, it has nothing to do with age, skin colour, hair colour, ethnicity or any factor apart from gender and sexual identity.

    14
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    Mute Nathan Henry
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:06 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: Hi Sean, age has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Pedophilia is a mental disorder. Sexual orientation deals only with being attracted to a certain sex or gender. Factors such as age, eye colour, hair colour, ethnicity etc don’t fall under your sexual orientation.

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    Mute sean o'dhubhghaill
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:06 PM

    @Brendan Harlowe: Unless the legislation is ‘iron clad’ I can envisage that idea of a person’s sexual orientation not being questionable as being used as some form of defence. The wording here needs to be VERY carefully chosen.

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    Mute Nathan Henry
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:09 PM

    @Nathan Henry: Whoops, so important I made the point twice

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    Mute sean o'dhubhghaill
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:09 PM

    @Cookie: Is paedophilia a ‘sexual orientation’? If not, why not? If yes then the very headline of this article needs to be thoroughly debated.

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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 11:18 PM

    @sean o’dhubhghaill: Paedophilia is not a sexual orientation – it is a criminal paraphilia.

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    Mute Corinne Wilson Muller
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:23 PM

    Brilliant

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    Mute Ann Mc Shane
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:28 PM

    That man has balls, fair play.

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    Mute Steve O'Reilly
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:36 PM

    @Ann Mc Shane: Well it is his sexual orientation so it would be silly of him not to push for this. And rightly so, it’s a terrible practice.

    29
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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 9:44 PM

    @Steve O’Reilly: so long as gender identity is not included in the law as well. That is a separate issue.

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    Mute Hmmmmm......
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:59 PM

    It’s about time this deplorable practice was stopped once and for all.

    29
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    Mute Search Eagle
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    Apr 15th 2021, 9:13 PM

    What’s wrong with dealing the sexual orientation piece first and then dealing with gender issues separately. There has been an attempt made to equivocate the two but they’re not really the same issue.

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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 9:46 PM

    @Search Eagle: like with the marriage referendum being used as a means of sneaking in gender self-ID laws, this conversion therapy law is a dangerous attempt to criminalise all treatment for gender dysphoria other than absolute affirmation.

    The effect will be negative.

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    Mute Albert Brennerman
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    Apr 15th 2021, 9:26 PM

    Minister for Children
    No.1 Prioirty Mother and Baby Homes and the Fiasco of the commission.

    Then you can play Commodeus in Gladiator stopping a current non existent issue that may potentially occur.

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    Mute William Bryan
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    Apr 15th 2021, 5:53 PM

    Absolutely and anyone seeing to have someone forced into having it procecuted

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    Mute Ter
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    Apr 15th 2021, 6:49 PM

    must be proactive in banning practices that not only propagandise harmful and discriminatory messages, but ones that also have serious negative consequences on a young person’s mental health, with the potential to inflict long-lasting damage.” so ban catholic church and it,s teachings

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    Mute Annette Stacey
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    Apr 15th 2021, 6:11 PM

    I would have thought that was not a n practice anymore, horrendous.

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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 6:22 PM

    @Annette Stacey: it isn’t really.

    This is about criminalizing people who are gender critical.

    It will be illegal not to affirm transgender identities even though the vast majority of teenagers who have gender dysphoria will outgrow it.

    This law will make it illegal to say ‘Wait, maybe you are gay’.

    It’s no coincidence that in a decade there’s been a 2000% increase in teenage girls saying they are straight boys.

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    Mute Cillian
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    Apr 15th 2021, 7:16 PM

    @Annette Stacey: Unfortunately it is still practiced in both the Republic and in Northern Ireland. There are numerous organisations out there offering it (won’t link for obvious reasons) and it also happens on a more local under the radar level. Many many people have either been offered or undergone it.

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    Mute David Jordan
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    Apr 16th 2021, 2:59 PM

    @Cookie: ” illegal not to affirm transgender identities”

    Not true. Simply disagreeing, or not affirming, is not a “treatment that aims to that seeks to change, suppress and, or eliminate a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and, or gender expression.”

    Find the word “affirm” anywhere in the Bill….

    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2018/39/eng/initiated/b3918s.pdf

    In this Act— “conversion therapy”—

    (a) means any practice or treatment by any person that seeks to change, suppress and, or eliminate a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and, or gender expression; and

    (b) does not include any practice or treatment, which does not seek to change a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and, or gender expression, or which—

    (i) provides assistance to an individual undergoing a gender transition; or
    (ii) provides acceptance, support and understanding of a person, or a
    facilitation of a person’s coping, social support and identity exploration
    and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions;

    It shall be unlawful for—
    (a) any person to—
    (i) perform or offer to perform conversion therapy on a person, or
    (ii) advertise conversion therapy,
    (b) any person to remove a person from the State for the purposes of conversion therapy,
    or
    (c) a professional to—
    (i) perform or offer to perform conversion therapy on a person, irrespective of whether monetary compensation is received in exchange, or
    (ii) refer a person to other professionals and, or to any other person to perform conversion therapy.

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    Mute Asid
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    Apr 16th 2021, 1:20 AM

    There are 2 genders and a whole lot of mental issues..

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    Mute Scorcher Bois Gris
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:31 PM

    Oh my God, this article implies that conversion therapy exists here already! Surely, we’ve moved on from the dark days of old??? If legislation to ban it is being introduced, then that must mean that some parents are forcing their kids to undergo it??? I cannot for d life of me understand what kind of parent would reject their child in such a fundamental and destructive way? It beggars belief that this could happen in a modern, progressive country.

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    Mute Cillian
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    Apr 16th 2021, 12:48 PM

    @Scorcher Bois Gris: Your assumption is right unfortunately :/… It happens quite regularly.

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    Mute Dick Barrett
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    Apr 16th 2021, 10:14 AM

    I think if you are over 18 you should be able to choose such a “therapy” if you really want.

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    Mute Michael Crowley
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    Apr 15th 2021, 8:51 PM

    Didnt know this was a thing in Ireland. I’m straight. I couldn’t imagine something trying to convert me to being gay.

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    Mute Cookie
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    Apr 15th 2021, 9:48 PM

    @Michael Crowley: this is not about gay people. It’s the gender identity bit that needs scrutiny, analysis and discussion.

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    Mute David Jordan
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    Apr 16th 2021, 3:00 PM

    @Cookie: You are misleading people, this is not true.

    It shall be unlawful for—
    (a) any person to—
    (i) perform or offer to perform conversion therapy on a person, or
    (ii) advertise conversion therapy,
    (b) any person to remove a person from the State for the purposes of conversion therapy,
    or
    (c) a professional to—
    (i) perform or offer to perform conversion therapy on a person, irrespective of whether monetary compensation is received in exchange, or
    (ii) refer a person to other professionals and, or to any other person to perform conversion therapy.

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    Mute Alan
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    Apr 16th 2021, 11:29 AM

    The New Religion in full affect… Only we can brainwash your kids into our cult and we will lock you up if you try and counteract our narratives… the unbeliever will be persecuted and shunned… What a Brave New World

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    Mute Squarepeg01
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    Apr 15th 2021, 11:51 PM

    Some people are anorexic. Others have body integrity identity disorder and feel they can’t be authentic unless they have parts of their body amputated. It is cruel to expect these sufferers to undergo therapy that might ‘cure’ them of such afflictions and I for one support banning all such therapy. They should be allowed to live an authentic life in line with their body image.

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    Mute Modern Irish Dad
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    Apr 15th 2021, 9:14 PM

    I gather from your letter that your son is a hom.se.ual. I am most impressed by the fact that you do not mention this term yourself in your information about him. May I question you why you avoid it? H.m.sexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation; it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the se.ual function, produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been h.m.se.uals, several of the greatest men among them. (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime –and a cruelty, too. Freud 1935

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    Mute thesaltyurchin
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    Apr 16th 2021, 12:12 PM

    So many points missed here, especially by the petrified Journal editors. Everyone should have the right too choose for themselves.

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