Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
THE PROFESSOR WHO led the inquiry into the death of Savita Halappanavar has said the Irish government has a duty to provide reproductive healthcare to women in Ireland, and shouldn’t shirk that responsibility to authorities in Britain.
“The international view is that Ireland is not considering women’s health and rights because of a barrier of thinking,” Professor Sir Sabaratnam Arulkumaran told TheJournal.ie, “…and they have a safeguard, because women are going to the UK to get it done.”
The latest figures from the UK government show that 3,265 women from Ireland had termination procedures in England and Wales last year; in 2015 that figure was 3,451.
If I’m the Irish government, I should take responsibility for Irish women.
I don’t shift the responsibility to England, nor to I shift it to the individual woman.
He was speaking in Dublin yesterday as part of a panel discussion with medical experts, which was organised by the All-Party Oireachtas Interest Group on Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights, which is chaired by Limerick TD and former education minister Jan O’Sullivan.
Among the issues discussed at the talk were figures that indicate 80% of terminations on women from Ireland and performed in the UK are done surgically – where 80% of abortions performed on British women are medical, meaning a pill is used instead of surgery.
Medical abortions usually involve less complications, but require the woman to wait 48 hours before being cleared, which complicates things for Irish women.
In response to the event, the Life Institute called the Oireachtas Committee on Abortion “a farce”, due to Jan O’Sullivan, who is a member of that committee, chairing the discussion yesterday.
The pro-life institute has previously criticised the committee for having too many pro-choice members.
Niamh Uí Bhriain of the Life Institute said that the title of the seminar – ‘Reforming Ireland’s Abortion Laws: Drawing on international best practice to develop women-centred healthcare’ – was “a joke”.
“Abortion isn’t healthcare, and it is certainly not women-centred healthcare, either for the baby girls whose lives are ended or for the women who are hurt by abortion.”
Jan O’Sullivan responded to the comments by saying she was at the conference as chair of the All-Party Oireachtas Interest Group on Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights, and would “make no apologies” for her participation.
Inquiry and inaction
Professor Arulkumaran - the former president of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists - said that the illegality of abortion in Ireland complicates medical decisions as was the case with Savita Halappanavar.
“The medical staff were concentrating on the baby’s heartbeat because, they thought if they carried out the termination [someone] might find fault with them, and they might go to jail for 13 years.
You need a medical recommendation that is clear that if there’s a threat to a woman’s life, the person who is best to make that decision is the doctor by the side of the patient.
In response to the link between abortion and best medical practice, Professor Arulkumaran says that it’s not about making decisions for patients, but about informing the public and giving them time to make their own decision.
Advertisement
Among the figures women should be made aware of, in his opinion, is research from the World Health Organisation (WHO):
“If a woman has a termination done within 9-10 weeks, the chance of something going wrong and her dying is 0.1 per 100,000.
“But if the same woman carries through pregnancy and delivers the baby, her chances of dying are 10 per 100,000, which is 100 per million, and this is a gradual scale, the later you do a termination it approaches that.”
So there’s 100 times less risk in terminating a pregnancy before 12 weeks, compared to carrying the pregnancy through according to the WHO, he says.
He said that the issue of abortion was a social and a human rights issue.
“Irish women are denied the rights of sexual reproductive health, compared to their sisters in Britain, and if you’re a poor human in Ireland then you are treated differently [when it comes to abortion].
It is a public health issue because if they get it done illegally and if they have infection or bleeding, they come to the hospitals here anyhow.
The medical profession
Professor Arulkumaran said the medical profession in Ireland should be more involved in the discussion around abortion.
“There’s inactivity on the part of the politicians, where they don’t know how to set about it, but also inactivity on the part of the health community as such.
For example, if you take the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists in England, they have guidelines on abortion, they promote abortion as a human rights issue and so on.
“But nothing is done in Ireland by the similar body because for concern that they might be antagonised or whatever it is, I don’t know [why].
“But that is a conversation we should have.”
He said that ideally, a law association and a medical association would get together in Ireland to discuss how to advise the government.
Thinking that someone else is going to do it – it’s not going to happen. We need to take responsibility – both the medical and the legal profession, as we have the evidence.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and Health Minister Simon Harris have both publicly declared their willingness to see a referendum on abortion next year.
Arulkumaran says that according to surveys conducted in Brazil, Portugal and elsewhere, views on abortion are dramatically different depending on whether the question is asked from a personal perspective.
“All people have their personal views – ‘I don’t want a termination done because of this’.
“But when it comes to your daughter or your wife: ‘Would you get it done?’ Then they say yes. So in simple terms, when it affects them individually or to their close ones, then their view changes a little bit.”
Yesterday, the Citizen’s Assembly published additional recommendations on the Eighth Amendment, which were previously unseen.
Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article.
Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.
@Paul Gallagher: I think people are annoyed by Tony because he seems to be smarter than the contributors taking him on. He doesn’t feel the need to insult you guys either, despite the insults getting flung at him which seems to get your guard up. Fair play to Tony.
@Paul Gallagher: or in the pub. Regardless Tony is undoubtedly an employee of TheJournal. For entertainment alone he deserves every penny of the wage they pay him and every thumbs up from his work colleagues in Meath, or wherever they are based these days.
Thanks Meekus. It is really decent of you to defend me but I don’t want you to make yourself personally unpopular.
My views are different. These views infuriate those who hold an orthodox perspective.
I’m relaxed about these attacks on me, many of them highly personalised.
It is perfectly natural and to be expected that the viewpoint which challenges the cost consensus will be strongly attacked. The person who expresses such divergent views will equally be attacked, if not more so.
@Meekus: Like your style , Although I hope Tony knows I don’t ”hate” him , or anyone else on here . I might not agree with a few comments , but we are all entitled to our opinions . And judging by Tonys’ prolific commenting , he’s not too bothered or put off , which is the way it should be .
@Meekus: it attracts bigots of all sorts Meekus. But that’s life. Tolerate those that are intolerant and lead by example. Bigots should be outed and shamed. You’ll find plenty of them on the Journal. Call them out on it.
@Tony Daly: like everything it takes time, things like this just further the cap some might not accept. Like women in job rolls most now would not question but some at the beginning did.
Gay people according to this article and the others that theJournal have posted seem to be suffering more than Yazidis or Christians in the Middle East.
@Pharmyco: well if bakers can be forced to write a message they disagree with then surely the pride parade can be forced to accept an entrant they disagree with…or is it only one group get to impose their opinions, views and beliefs on others?
@Beachmaster: Vehemently opposed to the RCC and it’s continuing role in our education, hospitals, sport etc. – notwithstanding their now acknowledged paedophilia, blankly denied for decades.
@Paul Foot: Jez, if it’s for that I would reckon you will have a full time job being opposed to everything from the past that still exists! What next, the milky bar kid!
@Tony Daly: interesting comments Tony in light of your intolerance of Catholics, the institutional RC church and those that believe that terminating life in the womb should be illegal. You should be more tolerant Tony and practice what you preach. Live and let live bud.
@Sean @114: I am tolerant of Catholics. I am a Catholic. I consider the institutional Roman Catholic Church to be an evil, pernicious and toxic agency, partly but not only because of its judgmentalism and hatred towards those people who happen to be gay because they are gay.
I oppose those who seek to impose compulsory incubation and forced birth on women, which I consider an abberation if the Roman Catholic Church caused by ideological adherence to irrational dogma.
On the overall nature of your comment, I recofnisevhow you conflate and confuse separate and different comment.
I see no need to be tolerant of the dogmatically intolerant who hosted fear, hate and prejudice.
@Tony Daly: ”I see no need to be tolerant of the dogmatically intolerant who hosted fear, hate and prejudice.”
I hope you remember that paragraph the next time you defend Islamic ideology . You seem to flip and flop on your intolerance .
@Sean @114: I mean oppose. They are entitled to their view, a view which they made into a Constitutional imperative, a view with which I adamantly disagree, but a view which they are entitled to express.
@Tony Daly: you didn’t answer the question directly Tony. Are you tolerant of them? Your narrative to date (many hundreds of posts) would strongly suggest no but I would be interested to receive a Yes or No answer.
@Sean @114: I am tolerant of their right to expression so long as these views are not an incitement to hate. I disagree with expressions of prejudice. That does not mean that expressions of prejudice should be banned. In that sense, I am tolerant, however firm my disagreement with such prejudiced views.
@Tony Daly: ok so you are half tolerant. A simple yes or no would have done but I will point you back to your previous comment Tony, practice what you preach bud.
@Minom Pnom: Gay Pride and Gay Liberation is now acceptable to corporate sponsorship but that does not detract from the value of and need for Gay Pride and Gay Liberation.
its about time the gays move on they got what then wanted they want to be equal yet they have the money making racket Pride remember it was Gay Pride for the hotels, bars with their flags every where why! they making themselves different, i heard today that a group representing gays didn’t like the work queer on some t shirts, yet they use that name sometimes to each other or worse, it seem they dont want to be equal but different! well girls/boys or what ever your having you are!!, there are more important things going on in this country, wait for the pink mist now!!
@Tony Daly: no it doesn’t it time to cop on and move on you got your so called right, I had to put with gay propaganda ie corporate responsibility for a week in my work I have no interest in gays or their life style if I want to be a proud straight I would be told to go back to work not a hope!
@Tony Daly: typical bull if you think about its your the lot with a chip, nothing is right for you, there a plenty of gays who just get on and don’t want this crap, its a typical answer for a liberal who want things their way if you don’t like it your racist or homophobic! so much for free speech.
So trolls like Tony Daly get to spam an article with 20+ comments but my single popular comment is deleted because it goes against the Journal narrative. Censorship alive and well. I expect this comment to last 10mins if it’s posted at all. Never mind I’m deleting this pathetic app. They won’t make money off my clicks anymore and the SJW can live in their little safe spaces all protected by mummy
@Tony Daly: wow Tony you really are a sad man living on the Journal all day commenting 20 times on every article for external validation. Enjoy your echo chamber.
The author states that the Stonewall was instigated predominantly by transwomen of colour. This is factually untrue. There is no recording of that weekend but the most meticulously researched account of the riots was written by David Carter in his 1990s book ‘Stonewall: the riot that sparked a revolution’. He interviewed hundreds of people who attended (or claimed to attend) that event. Backed up by the photographic evidence it was actually poor working class white men – with a good number of lesbians, drag queens and people of colour – who were the instigators.
This narrative that it was the trans community that started it is not backed by any evidence – it is only recently that this is gaining currency and is driven by a trans agenda not based on fact or evidence.
In London – the deadline for participation was advertised well in advance. It was widely known. The fact that no bi groups submitted on time is surely not the fault of LondoN Pride. Why did no bi group submit on time?
Since the gay and lesbian movement has welcomed every sexual minority into its fold there has occurred this sinister erasure of gay men and lesbians from the movement.
Pride does need to return to its roots. Trans people and ‘queer’ people (queer remains a homophobic hate slur irrespective of whether millennials have decided to reclaim it) have decided that gay people and lesbians are no longer welcome in the movement that they started.
This is unacceptable.
Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate issues. It is time to separate them.
@Meekus: in fairness, he knows that what he says will make him popular. That is what Ed Byrne wants and needs. I’m happy to let him play to the gallery.
@Tony Daly: indeed they are and ALL should celebrate it. Why categorise the day based on sexual orientation(s) when it could be a Freedom for All day? We should all celebrate liberty. Rename this liberty day. Be gone with the separatist rainbow flags, let’s all march under the same banner as a show of solidarity between the various shades of sexual orientation Let’s be one!
@Sean @114: suppressed, oppressed and discriminated against minorities are entitled to keep up the movement for liberation and acceptance. It is a combination of freedom of assembly and freedom of expression. It has my full support. Visibility promotes acceptance. Stonewall deserves to be celebrated and memorialised.
@Tony Daly: I suppose the premise is that all of these afflictions apply to the LGBTQ community only. The fact is that they apply to many outside of it and on that basis alone there could be a LGBTQ-like march everyday for different sections of society yet these people just get on with life.
@Sean @114: I don’t think that the LGBTQ community would seek to assert a monopoly of disadvantage and discrimination. There are other disadvantaged communities. In time, they too will start to achieve parity of esteem.
@Tony Daly: I just don’t think they feel such a strong and insatiable need to express victimhood Tony and there is no commercial driver either. Pride is the summer St Patricks day.
Why does the gay politicos feel the need to justify there lifestyle by constantly promoting the gay propaganda machine.Two million people did not vote for gay marriage . The politicos in the gay community should re visit their history and see the result of promoting the gay lifestyle and how it ends. The silent majority become radicalised by a right wing leader, transgender toilets promote homophobia. The easiest way to radicalise the Muslim youth, is by promoting homosexuality, for many it remains a despicable act. Extremists on both sides will find common ground , so the next time you promote transgender toilet spare a taught for the one that’s fastening his suicide belt, and ask yourself , why.
@michael k: you seek to demonise and scapegoat a valid and legitimate sexual orientations and gender identities by offering them as the root cause of and provocation Jihadist terrorist attacks. That is shameful.
@Tony Daly:
It’s 2017, all civilized societies have recognized gay rights, particularly Ireland which the recently became the first country globally to afford same sex marriage as a constitutional right, the highest office in the land is held by a gay man, gay people are free to do as they please in any aspect of life in a modern democracy without fear of hindrance with the full weight of the law behind them yet staggeringly the argument for Pride still presents itself as a noble one seeking to break down societal barriers of exclusion.
It’s not convincing.
San Francisco is probably the most gay friendly city on the planet yet the gay community still celebrate Gay Pride as if they were an oppressed grouping. Seems an irrational stance on the face of it.
Maybe the real and pertinent question around Gay Pride now is ‘Is it time to abandon it?’.
You highlighted a differentiation between marches for ‘true love and pride’ and marches based on triumphalism.
Given that the gay community now enjoy full equality as citizens here and abroad one could argue that Gay Pride without any specific political goals left to achieve has merely become another triumphalist march occupying the public square.
I have noticed a philosophical divide emerging between older gay groups who put themselves on the front line in an era when being gay was actually an oppressive experience not a merely a question of which costume to don at this year’s festival and the modern gay youth who are the inheritors of that political effort. The older ones often even harken back to that era and the existential vitality experienced in the struggle.
The youth merely ask ‘Here we are now – entertain us’
@Tommy Browne: the people didn’t put our gay leader in it was his party did, also only for the people who left this country during the worst recession only to come back for gay marriage it would not have past, the same people who fecked off again and left the rest of us to get this country back to recovery
Will there be Muslim men and women participating in the parade. Hopefully, yes, Go and enjoy yourselves! Lose that
Irrelevant religion, and for once, be true to yourself and those around you.
Do not label yourself. You are worth more than that.
Nb. Be careful when travelling to Muslim countries; keep your sexuality to yourselves. You have NO rights there.
‘Go Pride’
Man arrested following Stoneybatter knife attack to appear in court this morning
55 mins ago
7.9k
Good Morning
The 8 at 8: Tuesday
59 mins ago
1.0k
gotta tell you
'Completely unprofessional': Donal Skehan pushes back on Samantha Mumba 'insulting' Eurosong panellists
Updated
14 hrs ago
116k
Your Cookies. Your Choice.
Cookies help provide our news service while also enabling the advertising needed to fund this work.
We categorise cookies as Necessary, Performance (used to analyse the site performance) and Targeting (used to target advertising which helps us keep this service free).
We and our 143 partners store and access personal data, like browsing data or unique identifiers, on your device. Selecting Accept All enables tracking technologies to support the purposes shown under we and our partners process data to provide. If trackers are disabled, some content and ads you see may not be as relevant to you. You can resurface this menu to change your choices or withdraw consent at any time by clicking the Cookie Preferences link on the bottom of the webpage .Your choices will have effect within our Website. For more details, refer to our Privacy Policy.
We and our vendors process data for the following purposes:
Use precise geolocation data. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Store and/or access information on a device. Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development.
Cookies Preference Centre
We process your data to deliver content or advertisements and measure the delivery of such content or advertisements to extract insights about our website. We share this information with our partners on the basis of consent. You may exercise your right to consent, based on a specific purpose below or at a partner level in the link under each purpose. Some vendors may process your data based on their legitimate interests, which does not require your consent. You cannot object to tracking technologies placed to ensure security, prevent fraud, fix errors, or deliver and present advertising and content, and precise geolocation data and active scanning of device characteristics for identification may be used to support this purpose. This exception does not apply to targeted advertising. These choices will be signaled to our vendors participating in the Transparency and Consent Framework.
Manage Consent Preferences
Necessary Cookies
Always Active
These cookies are necessary for the website to function and cannot be switched off in our systems. They are usually only set in response to actions made by you which amount to a request for services, such as setting your privacy preferences, logging in or filling in forms. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not then work.
Targeting Cookies
These cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.
Functional Cookies
These cookies enable the website to provide enhanced functionality and personalisation. They may be set by us or by third party providers whose services we have added to our pages. If you do not allow these cookies then these services may not function properly.
Performance Cookies
These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. They help us to know which pages are the most and least popular and see how visitors move around the site. All information these cookies collect is aggregated and therefore anonymous. If you do not allow these cookies we will not be able to monitor our performance.
Store and/or access information on a device 98 partners can use this purpose
Cookies, device or similar online identifiers (e.g. login-based identifiers, randomly assigned identifiers, network based identifiers) together with other information (e.g. browser type and information, language, screen size, supported technologies etc.) can be stored or read on your device to recognise it each time it connects to an app or to a website, for one or several of the purposes presented here.
Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development 128 partners can use this purpose
Use limited data to select advertising 98 partners can use this purpose
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times an ad is presented to you).
Create profiles for personalised advertising 73 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service (such as forms you submit, content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (for example, information from your previous activity on this service and other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (that might include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present advertising that appears more relevant based on your possible interests by this and other entities.
Use profiles to select personalised advertising 72 partners can use this purpose
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on your advertising profiles, which can reflect your activity on this service or other websites or apps (like the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects.
Create profiles to personalise content 36 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service (for instance, forms you submit, non-advertising content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (such as your previous activity on this service or other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (which might for example include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present content that appears more relevant based on your possible interests, such as by adapting the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find content that matches your interests.
Use profiles to select personalised content 32 partners can use this purpose
Content presented to you on this service can be based on your content personalisation profiles, which can reflect your activity on this or other services (for instance, the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects. This can for example be used to adapt the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find (non-advertising) content that matches your interests.
Measure advertising performance 119 partners can use this purpose
Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Measure content performance 59 partners can use this purpose
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Understand audiences through statistics or combinations of data from different sources 70 partners can use this purpose
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Develop and improve services 77 partners can use this purpose
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Use limited data to select content 38 partners can use this purpose
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
Use precise geolocation data 42 partners can use this special feature
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Actively scan device characteristics for identification 24 partners can use this special feature
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Ensure security, prevent and detect fraud, and fix errors 79 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Deliver and present advertising and content 89 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Match and combine data from other data sources 65 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Link different devices 47 partners can use this feature
Always Active
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Identify devices based on information transmitted automatically 77 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
Save and communicate privacy choices 57 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
have your say