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Doctor who led Savita inquiry: 'Ireland can't depend on UK for 3,000 abortions a year'

“If I’m the Irish government, I should take responsibility for Irish women,” Professor Arulkumaran told TheJournal.ie.

THE PROFESSOR WHO led the inquiry into the death of Savita Halappanavar has said the Irish government has a duty to provide reproductive healthcare to women in Ireland, and shouldn’t shirk that responsibility to authorities in Britain.

“The international view is that Ireland is not considering women’s health and rights because of a barrier of thinking,” Professor Sir Sabaratnam Arulkumaran told TheJournal.ie, “…and they have a safeguard, because women are going to the UK to get it done.”

The latest figures from the UK government show that 3,265 women from Ireland had termination procedures in England and Wales last year; in 2015 that figure was 3,451.

If I’m the Irish government, I should take responsibility for Irish women.
I don’t shift the responsibility to England, nor to I shift it to the individual woman.

He was speaking in Dublin yesterday as part of a panel discussion with medical experts, which was organised by the All-Party Oireachtas Interest Group on Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights, which is chaired by Limerick TD and former education minister Jan O’Sullivan.

Among the issues discussed at the talk were figures that indicate 80% of terminations on women from Ireland and performed in the UK are done surgically – where 80% of abortions performed on British women are medical, meaning a pill is used instead of surgery.

Medical abortions usually involve less complications, but require the woman to wait 48 hours before being cleared, which complicates things for Irish women.

In response to the event, the Life Institute called the Oireachtas Committee on Abortion “a farce”, due to Jan O’Sullivan, who is a member of that committee, chairing the discussion yesterday.

The pro-life institute has previously criticised the committee for having too many pro-choice members.

Niamh Uí Bhriain of the Life Institute said that the title of the seminar – ‘Reforming Ireland’s Abortion Laws: Drawing on international best practice to develop women-centred healthcare’ – was “a joke”.

“Abortion isn’t healthcare, and it is certainly not women-centred healthcare, either for the baby girls whose lives are ended or for the women who are hurt by abortion.”

Jan O’Sullivan responded to the comments by saying she was at the conference as chair of the All-Party Oireachtas Interest Group on Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights, and would “make no apologies” for her participation.

Inquiry and inaction

Professor Arulkumaran - the former president of the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists - said that the illegality of abortion in Ireland complicates medical decisions as was the case with Savita Halappanavar.

“The medical staff were concentrating on the baby’s heartbeat because, they thought if they carried out the termination [someone] might find fault with them, and they might go to jail for 13 years.

You need a medical recommendation that is clear that if there’s a threat to a woman’s life, the person who is best to make that decision is the doctor by the side of the patient.

In response to the link between abortion and best medical practice, Professor Arulkumaran says that it’s not about making decisions for patients, but about informing the public and giving them time to make their own decision.

Among the figures women should be made aware of, in his opinion, is research from the World Health Organisation (WHO):

“If a woman has a termination done within 9-10 weeks, the chance of something going wrong and her dying is 0.1 per 100,000.

“But if the same woman carries through pregnancy and delivers the baby, her chances of dying are 10 per 100,000, which is 100 per million, and this is a gradual scale, the later you do a termination it approaches that.”

So there’s 100 times less risk in terminating a pregnancy before 12 weeks, compared to carrying the pregnancy through according to the WHO, he says.

He said that the issue of abortion was a social and a human rights issue.

“Irish women are denied the rights of sexual reproductive health, compared to their sisters in Britain, and if you’re a poor human in Ireland then you are treated differently [when it comes to abortion].

It is a public health issue because if they get it done illegally and if they have infection or bleeding, they come to the hospitals here anyhow.

The medical profession

Professor Arulkumaran said the medical profession in Ireland should be more involved in the discussion around abortion.

“There’s inactivity on the part of the politicians, where they don’t know how to set about it, but also inactivity on the part of the health community as such.

For example, if you take the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists in England, they have guidelines on abortion, they promote abortion as a human rights issue and so on.

“But nothing is done in Ireland by the similar body because for concern that they might be antagonised or whatever it is, I don’t know [why].

“But that is a conversation we should have.”

He said that ideally, a law association and a medical association would get together in Ireland to discuss how to advise the government.

Thinking that someone else is going to do it – it’s not going to happen. We need to take responsibility – both the medical and the legal profession, as we have the evidence.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and Health Minister Simon Harris have both publicly declared their willingness to see a referendum on abortion next year.

Arulkumaran says that according to surveys conducted in Brazil, Portugal and elsewhere, views on abortion are dramatically different depending on whether the question is asked from a personal perspective.

“All people have their personal views – ‘I don’t want a termination done because of this’.

“But when it comes to your daughter or your wife: ‘Would you get it done?’ Then they say yes. So in simple terms, when it affects them individually or to their close ones, then their view changes a little bit.”

Yesterday, the Citizen’s Assembly published additional recommendations on the Eighth Amendment, which were previously unseen.

Read: 25 legal abortions were carried out in Ireland in 2016

Read: Brid Smith: ‘I had an abortion… I’ve never felt ashamed about it’

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133 Comments
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    Mute John O'Shea
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:22 PM

    These people need to give the word gay back, it seems they’re never happy.

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:25 PM

    @John O’Shea: you lack nobility.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:37 PM

    @Tony Daly: Don’t try to be smart, it doesn’t suit you.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:51 PM

    @John O’Shea: it is not about smart at all.

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:11 PM

    @Tony Daly: Not where you’re concerned Tony , just copy and paste rhetoric .

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    Mute Matty Killucan
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:20 PM

    @Tony Daly: You lack nobility… who even talks like that? Tony is definitely a robot or a tank full of manatees

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:28 PM

    @Ken Hayden: I am able to type.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:29 PM

    @Matty Killucan: Matt Leahy needs to make up his mind. Which.

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    Mute Paul Gallagher
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:31 PM

    Tony has become the journals most frequent commentator. Keeps him entertained whist the rest of us are at work.

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    Mute Matty Killucan
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:34 PM

    @Tony Daly: My name isn’t matt leahy… it’s not even matt ;-) silly old Tony

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:38 PM

    @Matty Killucan: yes it is Matt Leahy.

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    Mute Meekus
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:38 PM

    @Paul Gallagher: I think people are annoyed by Tony because he seems to be smarter than the contributors taking him on. He doesn’t feel the need to insult you guys either, despite the insults getting flung at him which seems to get your guard up. Fair play to Tony.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:38 PM

    @Paul Gallagher: I am retired.

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    Mute Sean @114
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:39 PM

    @Paul Gallagher: or in the pub. Regardless Tony is undoubtedly an employee of TheJournal. For entertainment alone he deserves every penny of the wage they pay him and every thumbs up from his work colleagues in Meath, or wherever they are based these days.

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    Mute Matty Killucan
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:45 PM

    @Tony Daly: My name isn’t even matt tony! Not in real life. You know nothing about me boyo

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:46 PM

    @Sean @114: We should start a Tony Daly pride parade . The level of Tonyphobia here is overwhelming .

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    Mute Sean @114
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:56 PM

    @Matty Killucan: are you from Cork Matty?

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    Mute Meekus
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:57 PM

    @Ken Hayden: Good old Ken Hatin’

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:11 PM

    Thanks Meekus. It is really decent of you to defend me but I don’t want you to make yourself personally unpopular.

    My views are different. These views infuriate those who hold an orthodox perspective.

    I’m relaxed about these attacks on me, many of them highly personalised.

    It is perfectly natural and to be expected that the viewpoint which challenges the cost consensus will be strongly attacked. The person who expresses such divergent views will equally be attacked, if not more so.

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:18 PM

    @Meekus: Like your style , Although I hope Tony knows I don’t ”hate” him , or anyone else on here . I might not agree with a few comments , but we are all entitled to our opinions . And judging by Tonys’ prolific commenting , he’s not too bothered or put off , which is the way it should be .

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 10:57 PM

    @Ken Hayden: Couldn’t help myself Ken. Good attitude.

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    Mute MaryLoonyMcDonald
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:17 PM

    Can an anti lgbti group join this parade?

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:27 PM

    @MaryLoonyMcDonald: why would they want to except to subvert and to undermine?

    Why should homophobes want so to do?

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:31 PM

    @MaryLoonyMcDonald: Anti-lgbt? Just mind your own business if you don’t care to be involved.

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    Mute Padraig Corcoran
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    Jun 24th 2017, 7:31 AM

    @Tony Daly: Maybe for the same reason the LGBT community would like to join the St Patrick’s Day parade.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:31 PM

    This should be band , we are suppose to be equal. An equal day parade be much better and also for teaching children that we are all the same.

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:28 PM

    @: equality is not yet achieved as some of the comments show.

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    Mute Chris Martin
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:44 PM

    @Tony Daly: and when will it be considered that “full equality” is achieved?

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:48 PM

    @Tony Daly: Don’t think it reflects society in general. This website seems to draw these bigots.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:52 PM

    @Meekus: thank you for that reminder. So true. Yes, I agree.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:57 PM

    @Chris Martin: when there is full acceptance and unconditional tolerance.

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    Mute Sean @114
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:10 PM

    @Meekus: it attracts bigots of all sorts Meekus. But that’s life. Tolerate those that are intolerant and lead by example. Bigots should be outed and shamed. You’ll find plenty of them on the Journal. Call them out on it.

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    Mute Daffy the Bear
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:18 PM

    @Tony Daly: acceptance of diversity in everything but opinion..

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:18 PM

    @Tony Daly: like everything it takes time, things like this just further the cap some might not accept. Like women in job rolls most now would not question but some at the beginning did.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:24 PM

    @Sean @114: I’m afraid I’ll never tolerate bigots, they need to be challenged.

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:31 PM

    @Daffy the Bear: some opinions are hateful, discriminatory and purely prejudiced. Such opinions can be and should be challenged.

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    Mute Sean @114
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:41 PM

    @Meekus: I couldn’t agree more Meekus.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:42 PM

    @Sean @114: but there is an old saying called ‘turning a blind eye’. Call them out then walk away.

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    Mute Seany#NoCeta#NoTTIP
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    Jun 24th 2017, 5:11 PM

    @Tony Daly: bigots seek to enjoy unchallenged contribution to the lgbti cause despite opposing that cause. beggars belief

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    Mute BrianMcB
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:44 PM

    Gay people according to this article and the others that theJournal have posted seem to be suffering more than Yazidis or Christians in the Middle East.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:56 PM

    @BrianMcB: discrimination, suffering and oppression are not in competition.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:11 PM

    @BrianMcB: it’s hip Bryan. Bit like atheism.

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    Mute Pharmyco
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:18 PM

    You’d almost think the OP misses the intolerance

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    Mute MaryLoonyMcDonald
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:21 PM

    @Pharmyco: well if bakers can be forced to write a message they disagree with then surely the pride parade can be forced to accept an entrant they disagree with…or is it only one group get to impose their opinions, views and beliefs on others?

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    Mute Paul Foot
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:26 PM

    @MaryLoonyMcDonald: Who is imposing anything with a parade!? I’m anti-catholic – but just ignore St Patrick’s Day, Easter parades etc. OK¿

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:32 PM

    @MaryLoonyMcDonald: or should I protest my disagreement at RCC organised parades and functions?

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    Mute Beachmaster
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:42 PM

    @Paul Foot: anti-Catholic….what is that exactly?

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:53 PM

    @Beachmaster: Vehemently opposed to the RCC and it’s continuing role in our education, hospitals, sport etc. – notwithstanding their now acknowledged paedophilia, blankly denied for decades.

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    Mute Brown Boots
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:37 PM

    @Paul Foot: Jez, if it’s for that I would reckon you will have a full time job being opposed to everything from the past that still exists! What next, the milky bar kid!

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:41 PM

    @Pharmyco: no, no one could possibly miss hate, prejudice, intolerance or discrimination.

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    Mute Sean @114
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:06 PM

    @Tony Daly: interesting comments Tony in light of your intolerance of Catholics, the institutional RC church and those that believe that terminating life in the womb should be illegal. You should be more tolerant Tony and practice what you preach. Live and let live bud.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:20 PM

    @Sean @114: I am tolerant of Catholics. I am a Catholic. I consider the institutional Roman Catholic Church to be an evil, pernicious and toxic agency, partly but not only because of its judgmentalism and hatred towards those people who happen to be gay because they are gay.

    I oppose those who seek to impose compulsory incubation and forced birth on women, which I consider an abberation if the Roman Catholic Church caused by ideological adherence to irrational dogma.

    On the overall nature of your comment, I recofnisevhow you conflate and confuse separate and different comment.

    I see no need to be tolerant of the dogmatically intolerant who hosted fear, hate and prejudice.

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    Mute Ken Hayden
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:28 PM

    @Tony Daly: ”I see no need to be tolerant of the dogmatically intolerant who hosted fear, hate and prejudice.”
    I hope you remember that paragraph the next time you defend Islamic ideology . You seem to flip and flop on your intolerance .

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:32 PM

    @Ken Hayden: I hate the dogmatism of fundamentalist Islam as much as fundamentalist Roman Catholicism. Absolutism is never healthy.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:34 PM

    @Ken Hayden: flip flops are indeed in season Ken. Tony is the personification of same.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:37 PM

    @Tony Daly: when you say that you ‘oppose those’ those who are pro-life Tony, do you mean that you are intolerant of them?

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:44 PM

    @Sean @114: I mean oppose. They are entitled to their view, a view which they made into a Constitutional imperative, a view with which I adamantly disagree, but a view which they are entitled to express.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:58 PM

    @Tony Daly: you didn’t answer the question directly Tony. Are you tolerant of them? Your narrative to date (many hundreds of posts) would strongly suggest no but I would be interested to receive a Yes or No answer.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:17 PM

    @Sean @114: I am tolerant of their right to expression so long as these views are not an incitement to hate. I disagree with expressions of prejudice. That does not mean that expressions of prejudice should be banned. In that sense, I am tolerant, however firm my disagreement with such prejudiced views.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:26 PM

    @Tony Daly: ok so you are half tolerant. A simple yes or no would have done but I will point you back to your previous comment Tony, practice what you preach bud.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 11:27 PM

    @Sean @114: you really don’t understand do you or are you being intentionally obtuse.

    You are resentful of so many issues and things. I note your whinging about so many issues of a progressive nature.

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    Mute Pat Butler
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 6:36 PM

    Vested interests vested interests vested interests

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:30 PM

    @Pat Butler: protection, affirmation and celebration of a substantial minority.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:48 PM

    @Tony Daly: pot boiling at its best. We can’t be more equal than ever

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    Mute Jimmy Farrell
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:43 PM

    I think my app is broken, every second comment seems to be from Tony Daly..?

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:48 PM

    @Jimmy Farrell: there are at least 6 Tony Dalys posting, possibly more.

    He is like,y trying to challenge a complacent majority position.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:49 PM

    @Tony Daly: you are wrong.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:49 PM

    @Tony Daly: fair enough.

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    Mute Sean @114
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:17 PM

    @Mark Murphy: it’s a bit like opening up a barrel full of fortune cookies.

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    Mute Minom Pnom
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:05 PM

    It’s the gay corporate bandwagon these days for sure. Has been the case since just before the referendum.

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:25 PM

    @Minom Pnom: Gay Pride and Gay Liberation is now acceptable to corporate sponsorship but that does not detract from the value of and need for Gay Pride and Gay Liberation.

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    Mute Stephen Finn
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:07 PM

    its about time the gays move on they got what then wanted they want to be equal yet they have the money making racket Pride remember it was Gay Pride for the hotels, bars with their flags every where why! they making themselves different, i heard today that a group representing gays didn’t like the work queer on some t shirts, yet they use that name sometimes to each other or worse, it seem they dont want to be equal but different! well girls/boys or what ever your having you are!!, there are more important things going on in this country, wait for the pink mist now!!

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:23 PM

    @Stephen Finn: and your comment shows the continuing value of and need for Gay Pride.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 10:54 PM

    @Tony Daly: no it doesn’t it time to cop on and move on you got your so called right, I had to put with gay propaganda ie corporate responsibility for a week in my work I have no interest in gays or their life style if I want to be a proud straight I would be told to go back to work not a hope!

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 11:23 PM

    @Stephen Finn: you really have a chip on the shoulder. Your other remark and this reinforce your homophobic nature.

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    Jun 24th 2017, 2:11 PM

    @Tony Daly: typical bull if you think about its your the lot with a chip, nothing is right for you, there a plenty of gays who just get on and don’t want this crap, its a typical answer for a liberal who want things their way if you don’t like it your racist or homophobic! so much for free speech.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:36 PM

    So trolls like Tony Daly get to spam an article with 20+ comments but my single popular comment is deleted because it goes against the Journal narrative. Censorship alive and well. I expect this comment to last 10mins if it’s posted at all. Never mind I’m deleting this pathetic app. They won’t make money off my clicks anymore and the SJW can live in their little safe spaces all protected by mummy

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:41 PM

    @Pat Mustard: your comment was hateful, intolerant and prejudiced.

    Your comment above is just a whinge.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:44 PM

    @Pat Mustard: All the best Pat, safe home.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:47 PM

    @Tony Daly: wow Tony you really are a sad man living on the Journal all day commenting 20 times on every article for external validation. Enjoy your echo chamber.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:50 PM

    @Pat Mustard: you need to cool the mustard.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:50 PM

    @Pat Mustard: still here?

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:00 PM

    @Pat Mustard: Don’t let the door hit you on the way out Pat

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:00 PM

    @Mark Murphy: take the exit.

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    Mute Tommy Browne
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:35 PM

    Let the marching season begin.

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    Mute Tony Daly
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:39 PM

    @Tommy Browne: some march out of love, affirmation and true pride.

    Some march out of hate and triumphalism.

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    Mute James Brown
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:44 PM

    Much ado about nothing. Wake me up when it’s over

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    Mute Colin Morris
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:48 PM

    This article is problematic.

    The author states that the Stonewall was instigated predominantly by transwomen of colour. This is factually untrue. There is no recording of that weekend but the most meticulously researched account of the riots was written by David Carter in his 1990s book ‘Stonewall: the riot that sparked a revolution’. He interviewed hundreds of people who attended (or claimed to attend) that event. Backed up by the photographic evidence it was actually poor working class white men – with a good number of lesbians, drag queens and people of colour – who were the instigators.

    This narrative that it was the trans community that started it is not backed by any evidence – it is only recently that this is gaining currency and is driven by a trans agenda not based on fact or evidence.

    In London – the deadline for participation was advertised well in advance. It was widely known. The fact that no bi groups submitted on time is surely not the fault of LondoN Pride. Why did no bi group submit on time?

    Since the gay and lesbian movement has welcomed every sexual minority into its fold there has occurred this sinister erasure of gay men and lesbians from the movement.

    Pride does need to return to its roots. Trans people and ‘queer’ people (queer remains a homophobic hate slur irrespective of whether millennials have decided to reclaim it) have decided that gay people and lesbians are no longer welcome in the movement that they started.

    This is unacceptable.

    Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate issues. It is time to separate them.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 7:38 PM

    Liberation, equality and diversity are worthy of celebration.

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    Mute Ed Byrne
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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:18 PM

    @Tony Daly: you are an AWFUL shitebag!

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:23 PM

    @Ed Byrne: thank you.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:28 PM

    @Ed Byrne: Pipe down Ed, you ape.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:35 PM

    @Meekus: in fairness, he knows that what he says will make him popular. That is what Ed Byrne wants and needs. I’m happy to let him play to the gallery.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:49 PM

    @Tony Daly: indeed they are and ALL should celebrate it. Why categorise the day based on sexual orientation(s) when it could be a Freedom for All day? We should all celebrate liberty. Rename this liberty day. Be gone with the separatist rainbow flags, let’s all march under the same banner as a show of solidarity between the various shades of sexual orientation Let’s be one!

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 8:56 PM

    @Sean @114: suppressed, oppressed and discriminated against minorities are entitled to keep up the movement for liberation and acceptance. It is a combination of freedom of assembly and freedom of expression. It has my full support. Visibility promotes acceptance. Stonewall deserves to be celebrated and memorialised.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:15 PM

    @Tony Daly: I suppose the premise is that all of these afflictions apply to the LGBTQ community only. The fact is that they apply to many outside of it and on that basis alone there could be a LGBTQ-like march everyday for different sections of society yet these people just get on with life.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:21 PM

    @Sean @114: I don’t think that the LGBTQ community would seek to assert a monopoly of disadvantage and discrimination. There are other disadvantaged communities. In time, they too will start to achieve parity of esteem.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:33 PM

    @Tony Daly: I just don’t think they feel such a strong and insatiable need to express victimhood Tony and there is no commercial driver either. Pride is the summer St Patricks day.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:47 PM

    @Sean @114: you lack comprehension of the purpose, rationale and need for Gay Pride.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:49 PM

    Why does the gay politicos feel the need to justify there lifestyle by constantly promoting the gay propaganda machine.Two million people did not vote for gay marriage . The politicos in the gay community should re visit their history and see the result of promoting the gay lifestyle and how it ends. The silent majority become radicalised by a right wing leader, transgender toilets promote homophobia. The easiest way to radicalise the Muslim youth, is by promoting homosexuality, for many it remains a despicable act. Extremists on both sides will find common ground , so the next time you promote transgender toilet spare a taught for the one that’s fastening his suicide belt, and ask yourself , why.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 10:11 PM

    @michael k: you seek to demonise and scapegoat a valid and legitimate sexual orientations and gender identities by offering them as the root cause of and provocation Jihadist terrorist attacks. That is shameful.

    You comment is redolent of intense homophobia.

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    Jun 24th 2017, 12:59 AM

    Can you show us some photos of the Muslim LGBT/MLGBTwho were in the parade today? Thank you.

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    Jun 24th 2017, 12:23 PM

    @Andi Black: yawn

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:34 PM

    I wonder what is really behind the vociferous and passionate opposition to Gay Pride.

    What is it that infuriates so many people and renders them so desperately aggrieved?

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 9:57 PM

    @Tony Daly: I looked through the comments when there were 117 , of them you had 47 , talk about someone being aggrieved .

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 10:12 PM

    @Ken Hayden: the comments being in defence of Gay Pride.

    I see so much strident opposition to Gay Pride but, so far, no rational reason for it.

    Do a recount. You have the wrong number.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 10:27 PM

    @Tony Daly:
    It’s 2017, all civilized societies have recognized gay rights, particularly Ireland which the recently became the first country globally to afford same sex marriage as a constitutional right, the highest office in the land is held by a gay man, gay people are free to do as they please in any aspect of life in a modern democracy without fear of hindrance with the full weight of the law behind them yet staggeringly the argument for Pride still presents itself as a noble one seeking to break down societal barriers of exclusion.
    It’s not convincing.
    San Francisco is probably the most gay friendly city on the planet yet the gay community still celebrate Gay Pride as if they were an oppressed grouping. Seems an irrational stance on the face of it.
    Maybe the real and pertinent question around Gay Pride now is ‘Is it time to abandon it?’.
    You highlighted a differentiation between marches for ‘true love and pride’ and marches based on triumphalism.
    Given that the gay community now enjoy full equality as citizens here and abroad one could argue that Gay Pride without any specific political goals left to achieve has merely become another triumphalist march occupying the public square.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 10:32 PM

    In layman’s language, the vacuity of the thing could be what annoys people.
    Like the Eurovision it has become a meaningless spectacle.

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 10:41 PM

    I have noticed a philosophical divide emerging between older gay groups who put themselves on the front line in an era when being gay was actually an oppressive experience not a merely a question of which costume to don at this year’s festival and the modern gay youth who are the inheritors of that political effort. The older ones often even harken back to that era and the existential vitality experienced in the struggle.
    The youth merely ask ‘Here we are now – entertain us’

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    Jun 23rd 2017, 10:59 PM

    @Tommy Browne: the people didn’t put our gay leader in it was his party did, also only for the people who left this country during the worst recession only to come back for gay marriage it would not have past, the same people who fecked off again and left the rest of us to get this country back to recovery

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    Jun 24th 2017, 9:10 AM

    Let’s have a Hetrosexual Festival!

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    Jun 24th 2017, 2:15 PM

    @Rodney Williams: here here it wont happen we are now second class citzens

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    Jun 24th 2017, 1:06 AM

    Excuse my ignorance but what does the Q stand for?

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    Jun 24th 2017, 2:31 AM

    Will there be Muslim men and women participating in the parade. Hopefully, yes, Go and enjoy yourselves! Lose that
    Irrelevant religion, and for once, be true to yourself and those around you.

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    Jun 24th 2017, 12:51 AM

    Do not label yourself. You are worth more than that.
    Nb. Be careful when travelling to Muslim countries; keep your sexuality to yourselves. You have NO rights there.
    ‘Go Pride’

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    Jun 24th 2017, 10:01 AM

    Wonder will the pope get Many flags when he comes?

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