the country is full of people like this guy but people do not realise the law society protects their own with a vengence the time for these guys who are still allowed to police them selves is anti democratic.

Was a Minister for Justice in the making had he not broken the 11th commandment!

Thou shalt not get caught!

And he’d have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for those pesky whistleblowers

The law society is a union of solicitors for solicitors playing games with the citizens and is secrete like a masonic arrangement

@ Harry Price

Of course the law society is “of solicitors for solicitors” – that’s what it is supposed to be.

As for a “secrete society” – its hardly “secrete” if anyone can join it now is it?

felix @you make me sick with the usual con have you heard of the maxim that states that “no one shall be a judge unto self ” your dictation and dictiorial behaviour will be much liked in blackhall place

@ Harry Price

What exactly is “the usual con” Harry eh?

As for the eh…”maxim” you mentioned….“no one shall be a judge unto self”….No harry I haven’t heard of it. Probably because you have gotten it wrong.

I currently do not have secretary so rarely get to practice my “dictation”. And I’m not sure what dictiorial means either.

Oh and Blackhall place is the training school for solicitors. I’m not a solicitor.

But answer me this Harry – if Blackhall is a ‘secrete’ society how is it that anyone can join?

Lets wait and see what sentence he gets

He will get a lengthy sentence.
I’ve done a nit of research on this mans background and I think you will find its due to the company thus man kept that he is dragged in front of the courts he is defiantly not one of the click.

Spot on Tony Re: Golden Circle.
A lot of other legal eagles including our “fine upstanding” judges were up to the same capers if not worse.
Byrne is just a minnow thrown out as a bit of media fodder in this filthy state of ours.

http://www.thejournal.ie/2000-signatures-on-petition-calling-for-judge-to-resign-1178460-Nov2013/
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/jailed-exjudge-gets-two-more-years-29128399.html

@ Gathering

What the hell has Nolan’s decision got to do with anything?

That’s ridiculous.

Would you believe one of our high court judges is a partner with tom mc feeley

I think find that Nolans decisionS speak for themselves Felix.

typo
you’ll find

@ Gathering

They might not be just but they certainly are within his rights as a judge so I fail to see how there can be any allegation of corruption.

Where is the relationship between our judges “being up to the same capers” as you said and Judge Nolan. What has sentencing on sexual assault got to do with Byrne’s offences? They are not the “same capers” at all – theyre not even corrupt or improper. Theyre just lenient.

Hope he gets what he deserves but some how I feel he will get 6 months suspended sentence a slap on the bumbalero !!

Ah the poor fella was having his arm twisted by a very bold developer. He did the only thing any one of us would have done, robbed all round , steal from our clients and literally rob their houses. The unfortunate so and so, all he can look forward to now is a loving embrace from his new cell mate.

a sentence can be so lenient it is improper !! the man is incapable of doing his job and has proven it with numerous decisions he serves us the people if we arent happy we have a right to protest and seek his removal !!! well done gathering,never let up,i signed myself and put it on FB,you are making a difference !!!

Now Now
Mr Legal expert Felix.
Please go back and read my comments and tell me where I alleged that That the honorable Judge Nolan was corrupt?
In this country where rapists and pedophiles walk free as garlic man is sentenced to 6 years along with “hardened” TV license “offenders”
Please tell me Felix?

Hope he gets between 10 and 15 yrs, he deserves it, it will put the “willeys” up Sean Fitzpatrick before his case comes on stream

@ felix can i ask you a question .. are you a member of the law society

@ Gathering

Your comment was “our “fine upstanding” judges were up to the same capers if not worse”.

You then gave the example of Judge Nolan.

So how is Nolan giving a verdict, which he is perfectly entitled to do, “up to the same capers if not worse.

Sentencing a convicted man is not a similar caper. Its not a worse caper. Its Nolan’s role within the law.

If you’re not suggesting it was a problem then why did you post it?

@ Harry Price

I am not a member of the law society, though I used to me a member of the law library.

Most of your references to the legal profession are conspiracy theorist nonsense Harry.

Gerard Tuohy

The Judge does not serve us “The People” – he cannot simply change tailor his decision to the whims of the mob.

I don’t agree with his sentencing. But an independent body should be reviewing judicial behaviour and the government should be enacting laws to tighten sentencing in all areas.

the judge isnt in public service ????? of course they serve us as are the politicans meant to and where are you pulling out this changing and tailoring their decisions ??? where did i say that ?? you read what i wrote and made it fit your standard counter argument anytime anyone questions the judiciary !! “mob rule” blah blah blah i know it cant work that they make a decision we all go mad then they change it but it actually happens sometimes,look at paudraig mcnally if there was no outcry he’d be in prison !!

Pfft nonsense.

My “stardard counter argument anytime anyone questions the judiciary” – and what counter argument would that be?

You have no right to seek his removal just because you don’t like his decision. That power should not be at the behest of the mob. The ability to punish, remunerate and appoint judges should be with a totally independent commission. Not with the People. Not with the Government.

first of all you seemed to have skipped my points,i thought you said he wasnt in public office ?? are you taking that back now ??? will i tell you what the word public means ?? you clearly cant keep up with the conversation if you need me for a second time to tell you what the counter argument was,read my comment again !! yeah i agree they should be independent but sometimes exceptional circumstances require exceptional action and being independent doesnt mean not listening to the people if everyone in ireland decided to be muslim and wanted sharia law then thats what we would get,we want tougher sentences on crimes of that nature so thats what we should get !! again you ignore my example of paudraig nally and you also choose to ignore my question where did i say they should tailor decisions ?? you are having a conversation with yourself apparently ! also you talk about these things as if we are seperate form the state apparatus !!! we are the state there is no state without the people !!!!

I didn’t say he wasn’t in Public office – I said he doesn’t serve “the People”.

What the People want is largely irrelevant. What YOU CLAIM the public want is even more irrelevant.

Funny thing about the People – they do have a habit of desiring those things which are worst for them. Judge’s should under no circumstances listen to the People. Least of all raving lunatics like yourself.

As for Padraig Nally – if you asked the Judge in question he would tell you he wasn’t influenced by the People at all. Further more that is on, extremely weak and subjective, example in an ocean of decisions every single day. Even if you are correct (and Its highly debatable) its meaningless.

public service
n.
1. Employment within a governmental system, especially within the civil service.
2. A service performed for the benefit of the public, especially by a nonprofit organization.
3. The business of supplying an essential commodity, such as water or electricity, or a service, such as communications or transportation, to the public.

Nowhere does it say in the defintion of Public service that we the People are the ultimate controllers of what we want “public servants” to do.

I suggest you read the definition of public service yourself.

It didn’t take much longer in the UK or US Keith. On the contrary.

@ Declan Warde

Unfortunately Declan you fall into the trap most people do – you want bakers prosecuted but never say who you want prosecuted or what crimes they are guilty of.

The sad reality is that the bankers weren’t guilty of any crimes. Few laws had been passed in this country covering their actions. So while their actions may have been immoral, negligent and greedy – they weren’t actually illegal.

So there’s nothing to prosecute them for.

THAT is the fault of Ahern and FF. The police and and the Courts can only prosecute crimes that ACTUALLY EXIST – not crimes we just wish existed.

The bakers are guilty of making c*** bread

“It didn’t take much longer in the UK or US Keith. On the contrary.”

Eh, this is Ireland.

@Felix

Maybe it would be more difficult to find illegality but for one Irish Permanent used to swap money with Anglo at audit time to balance the books which is illegal. All the auditors were never brought to book even though banks were insolvent for a long time and it was their legal duty to report such and if they missed it they were guilty of negligence. All the bankers from 2008 are either still in place, retired on multi-million pensions or working as consultants to buy all the loans from NAMA for seriously under-valued amounts.

And I can also guarantee if this most corrupt of corrupt states cannot find something to prosecute you for you must be the cleanest of clean people because they would find something!

The former CEO’s of Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Bank approached the former Government looking for funding stating that they had a liquidity problem when in fact they knew they had a solvency problem. That is fraud.

@ Stephen Murney
@ Jack Cass

Lads you can crow about illegality til the cows come home but the fact remains that claiming “That is Fraud” is jst pie in the sky silliness.

You need times, dates, evidence and an actual SPECIFIC charge against them.

Most people on here will say “the bankers didn’t got to jail” – but which bankers? Stephen you mentioned Anglo and IP – but you can’t put a company in jail. So specifically – who in there took the actual specific illegal actions? Are you sure that the actions they took were, in fact, illegal. And can we prove it?

Jack you’re claiming the State was defrauded, which sure sounds illegal – but is it really? Can you point to the Statue where it says “exaggerating your problems to a government official in order to get a loan is punishable by 10 years in jail”???

The fact remains lads there is very little scope to charge anyone with anything. It was everyone’s fault – it is therefore no ones fault. It was greedy, negligent, careless and stupid – none of which is punishable by time in jail otherwise most of the island would be in Mountjoy crapping into buckets.

The definition of fraud as described in criminal law is, “fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual”; personal gain in this instance been the individual banks and damage to another individual been the taxpayers of Ireland. This was done on Sept 29, 2008 by the former CEO’s of Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Bank.

First of all – how do you prove the “intention”? How do you show what someone was thinking?

Secondly – what is the personal gain? Banks don’t receive “personal gain” – for it to be “personal” the person perpetrating the fraud had to benefit in a personal capacity. The money wasn’t going to the CEO.

Thirdly – you’d never be able to show it was done to damage the taxpayer.

You see? Even on this most rudimentary of analyses you don’t have a shred of a case.

You don;t know the who/when/how of it. You don’t know what to charge or if you can support the claim.

All you have is the total sense of injustice and the feeling that “someone must pay”. I understand that. But when we’re talking court cases and prison – we need specifics.

The truth is that the legislation doesn’t exist and the evidence isn’t there.

@Felix

Anglo moved funds between TSB and itself to hide its short falls from auditors. That’s illegal even in Ireland.

@ Jim

Ok fine – but Anglo is not a person. “Anglo” cannot be locked up. And insofar as I am aware Sean Fitz is pending trial.

So what exactly do People expect when they say “the bankers” need to go to jail?

WHO is responsible within the organisation for the activities? How do we know? Where is the evidence?

99% of People who say “the bankers didn’t go to jail” havent got the first clue who “the bankers” are. They don’t know what offences, if any, have been committed. They don’t have a clue really what happened within the banks.

All the majority really know is that the country is broke, taxes are going up and their pay packet is less than it was or they are unemployed. According the news and the world “It was the banks what done it” – and so theyre angry with the bankers and want to see them go to jail.

And I get it – I really do. But the sad truth is that the majority of their actions weren’t covered by any laws in this jurisdiction.

And yet FF & FG are still the primary go to parties in this country. FG won the Meath East by-election at a canter. FF came second.

If the People want someone to blame they should use their vote and turn on those two because the truth is THEY are the ones responsible for letting the banks pull all this crap.

And yet people still vote for them.

“Bankers” in this case would be the directors of the company – the company being the bank. Just like if a private company operated illegal, it would be the directors of the company – all of them – that would be charged. We’ve been waiting years for Sean Fitz’s trial – I wouldn’t hold my breath on the out come of that “trial”.

Don’t talk to me about Meath East – the voters up there should hold their heads in shame!

I would agree that FG and FF and those in power with them are too blame for all of this as well. We need a NEW party that will go in to government and sort this mess out. I would also like to see them investigate the past governments for criminal acts. I think we could have a few politicans heading to prison if that was done.

If the transfer of 7 billion for a 1 night stand didn’t raise eyebrows – there is something very seriously wrong with Irish company law.

so lets bring in retro active laws,lets nail them for any small infringement we can find,lets find the loop holes,im sure they’ll appreciate that !!!! also i dont pretend to know but i really doubt they didnt break any laws at all !!!

you are of the club felix

I think you will find that all Directors of a company have a legal duty in their positions, I am no google lawyer but I have studied Employment Law as part of my college course, roughly the duties span the fact that a director must act in the best interest of the company at all times, they must be transparent and open in all matters along with not making any undisclosed profit or gain at the expense of the company and they have a duty to act with care dilligently and not wreckless and not even all of that, if a company Director continues to trade and is responsible for a company creating a debt well then they can be held personally liable for that debt/struck off directors lists etc.. So the bankers are responsible – at least the ones like Fitz etc as they held the puppet strings… they should all be rounded up because they would have a hard time proving they didn’t know what was going on considering their position.. The proof is there – but everyone knows that if they take out one big shot they will take a whole house of cards down and the big wigs in the Financial sector/Legal Sector/Property Sector will all want to keep there fat, well cushioned arses covered…

In a moral sense it might have been fraud but the only crime was the stupidity of the government. No comparison with the antics of this lawyer, which were manifestly and legally fraudulent.

sounds about right anne marie !! like i say i didnt know for sure but i really cant belive that they didnt break any single law or ethics code !!

@ Felix
Irish law is not as developed or progressive in this area, however non-disclosure by any company to their auditors is an offence… on the other hand incompetence of the auditor is not. Many many of the potential cases would end up being locked in legal argument but may have led to reformation of the legal system. This is a greater concern.
The reality is in terms of bankers they leverage the massive accounting firms to remove the individual responsibility and the accountancy firms use graduates to deflect responsibility.

of course its fraud thats why there is no evidence in kennys department as to who was there and who advised cowen and co the night of the bank bail outbecause if the evidence was there they would have to come up with the mother of all lies ,this country between our courts and our parliament is stink with corruption ,

@ Anne-Marie McAndrew

Directors have duties to act in the best interests of their companies. A failure to act in those interests can lead to S.150/s.160 restriction/prohibition on people acting as directors again.

It is not however a duty subject to criminal prosecution.

Sean Fitz is not a good example – because Sean Fitz is in the process of being investigated and prosecuted.

The men and women you, and everyone else is referring to, are the rest of them that faced no prosecution.

Unfortunately however there is very little scope to prosecute these people for criminal offences. In many cases what they did was not criminal. In others there is simply no evidence to support a prosecution.

As for big-shots keeping fat cushioned arse covered – well you’re back on to the conspiracy theorist nonsense now.

If you are so certain that certain people (and I would be obliged if you could name a couple) are guilty of offences then why don’t you speak the Gardai?

Like most people Anne-Marie you want to blame “the bankers” – which perfectly understandable. But in order to actually prosecute these people you need more than just anger at current circumstance. You need laws and evidence and specifics. None of which anyone on here can provide.

Not really 5 days because he has no house in his own name so it’s 5 days house arrest in someone else’s house between midnight and 6 am but 4 off them will be set aside because he turned up to court, also on his appeal of sentance he can ask for 10 k per month for living expenses but he has know chance of this at all, he will only get 9 k per month, that will have to do him

it all adds up to ……the secret society v the common people ………..a gang cartel that calls this just and supports a one party system who knew of all this can only be called what they are DICTATORS Its long past time we the people had a legal ombudsman trained the judges and removed the masonic arrangement in black hall place

@ Harry Price

Drivel Harry. Pure nonsense.

For one thing – how can it be the “secrete society” against the common people? Byrne was PROSECUTED. He’s going to pay for his crimes. He was also disqualified from acting as a solicitor by the Law Society.

felix @ you ate dinners at the table in secret to be an agent of the court with a hidden and secret agenda ..normal people can only see this for what it is and the word is you are part of a gang

Mans nearly a hero. He almost got away with it.

With 8 suspended and 2 weeks off for good behaviour

send him to mountjoy with rest of the rabble.If he gets ten years i would be very surprised to be honest.Maybe half that,maybe.

My guess is 5 years.

My bet is on 6 years with one suspended. He will serve 3.75 years with remission. Whos in? Place your money down :)

I agree with you Adam. Crimes against ‘property’ are severely punished in this country. I also seem to remember that Elio Malocco got about eight years for evil doings?

but he was in a secrete society of the law……only that some member of the public told he would have got away