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Pioneers' group calls for return of Confirmation pledge

The practice has become less universal in recent years, but is still in use in many parishes.

A CATHOLIC PIONEERS’ group has called for a return of the Confirmation abstinence pledge as a way of tackling Ireland’s problem with alcohol.

Traditionally, children of Confirmation age in Ireland generally promised not to drink alcohol until they were 18.

In recent years there has been a softening of the practice, with the Irish Bishops’ Conference last year piloting a scheme where alternatives were offered in parishes around the country where it was felt that practice was outmoded.

Speaking to TheJournal.ie, the president of the Pioneer Total Abstinence Association (PTAA) James Shevlin said:

It was an integral part of the Confirmation ceremony, and we’d like to see it come back again.

The PTAA is a faith-based organisation and have been campaigning against underage drinking for over 100 years.

It is famous for its pioneer pins, which members can be seen wearing on the lapels of their clothing.

“We feel it was a pity that it happened,” Shevlin said, “in light of the way the attitude to alcohol has gone in the last few years, anything that would help to create an awareness or a culture of sobriety would help”.

Just why is he making these comments now? 

So an organisation of Catholic teetotallers calling for a return of the pledge… no surprises there, right?

There is another reason for Shevlin’s appeal, however.

Earlier this week liver specialist and president of the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland Professor Frank Murray said that that around three people die a day from alcohol-related illness in Ireland – and that there had been a rise in the number of people in their 30s dying from liver failure.

Still going on 

Although children taking the pledge as part of their Confirmation might not be quite as universal as it once was, it’s still pretty common.

In a statement to TheJournal.ie, a spokesperson for Irish Bishops’ Conference said “there are 26 dioceses on the island and I am not aware of any diocese in which the pledge is not offered to the Confirmandi”.

Along with parents, bishops and priests are very concerned about the use of alcohol in Irish society, and especially the damage it can do to young people who are subject to the well-funded and persuasive marketing campaigns of the drinks industry.

Read: With “crazy drinking” and p***ing in the street, one Galway chef has had enough of ‘The Races’

Also: A bar’s ‘Bottomless Prosecco’ deal is among three ads given a slap on the wrist

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103 Comments
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    Mute David Van-Standen
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    Aug 5th 2016, 6:41 AM

    If Jesus was against drinking, why did he turn water into wine instead of cranberry juice?

    186
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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:05 AM

    Yeah did he even check IDs?

    94
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    Mute Pauliebhoy
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:35 AM

    Sure he carried 3 different IDs himself, he was like your man Jason Re-Bourne

    77
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    Mute Sarah Clifford
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    Aug 5th 2016, 8:08 AM

    With that skill I’d have followed him everywhere too

    41
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    Mute Rob Cahill
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:32 AM

    His Ma was only 12 when she had him and the da wasn’t around.. how could we expect him to grow up normal??

    30
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    Mute Paraic McDonagh
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:58 AM

    He should buy a round like everyone else!

    15
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    Mute ⚡ SCO Electrical ⚡
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    Aug 5th 2016, 6:31 AM

    Don’t think I knew as a kid there was an option not to take it… It was “just another one of those things you did”

    171
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    Mute tommy macdonagh
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    Aug 5th 2016, 6:38 AM

    it was all part of the abuse we have to endure at the hands of the RC church

    127
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    Mute John S
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:03 AM

    I have to say Tommy, I am not religious but I find the militant anti-church brigade to be even more insufferable than the religious orders ever were.

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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:21 AM

    Not so much anti-church John, more anti-stupid. The church just provides a lot of material in that regard.

    And what a mistake giving them powers over the education system. A legacy issue which needs correction as a matter of urgency.

    67
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    Mute John S
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:25 AM

    Who is to say they are wrong or stupid? Can’t you just live and let live no? I have zero interest in religion but if somebody else does, work away! Each to their own. Is that so difficult?

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    Mute Rob Cahill
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:31 AM

    “but I find the militant anti-church brigade to be even more insufferable than the religious orders ever were.”

    Then you were clearly never bet black and blue by a man in a dress. Either that or you liked it.. Atheists words only hurt those who disagree.

    61
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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:40 AM

    Who is to say they are wrong or stupid? Can’t you just live and let live no? I have zero interest in religion but if somebody else does, work away! Each to their own. Is that so difficult?
    =====

    The idea of a virgin birth is very,very stupid, John. Like religious people claiming to have all the answers about the universe and how we came to be…very, very stupid.

    We can live and let live, as soon as 96% of schools are not indoctrination centres. Sound like a plan?

    50
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    Mute John S
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:49 AM

    Like I said I don’t believe either, but people are entitled to decide what they want to believe. Your post above is just proving my point. I don’t have many religious people telling me repeatedly about the virgin birth…….I can live and let live, you can’t.
    I’d love to see the schools taken out of church patronage…..good luck with the tax bill that we will all face to buy these schools off the orders! I can already see the commotion that will cause…..

    28
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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:53 AM

    I can live and let live but not when 96% of schools are dedicated to promoting rubbish, when they could be teaching something useful.

    As I say, its a legacy issue. A solution may be complex, but that doesn’t mean we stop trying. As long as its not forced on anyone, people can believe what they like.

    The problem is, the church know that as soon as they lose the ability to get at kids from age 5, its game over.

    32
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    Mute John S
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:54 AM

    Rubbish in your opinion…..again forcing your opinion…..

    23
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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:58 AM

    Rubbish in your opinion…..again forcing your opinion…..
    ========

    Welcome to the internet.

    What about the other points?

    Why is religion in schools, isn’t that what churches are for?

    As soon as its kept out of schools, we can live and let live. Deal?

    31
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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:01 AM

    Could you be more precise about ‘the abuse we have to endure at the hands of the RC church’, please?

    19
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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:05 AM

    Tommy MacDonagh:

    Could you be more explicit about ‘the abuse we have to endure at the hands of the RC church’, please?

    14
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    Mute John S
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:13 AM

    Well done to the 2 posters above, completely proving my point! I completely agree re religion in schools, my original point (which you might care to read, especially my attitude to the church).
    I am not sure which is worse, schools in religious patronage or schools in the hands of people like yourselves.

    16
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    Mute Rob Cahill
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:17 AM

    Elizabeth, They tried to stop same sex couples getting married, They promote non use of condoms in aids ridden Africa, They fight to keep the disgusting 8th amendment in place.. Not to mention the last century selling kids off to the highest bidder in America and using their mothers as slaves, And raping and beating our kids only to cover it all up after and not make amends. Other than that they are grand.

    35
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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:18 AM

    I am not sure which is worse, schools in religious patronage or schools in the hands of people like yourselves.
    =======

    So a non religious person wondering if it’d be better for schools to teach religion for the minimum 2.5 hours per week instead of say, another language, science, technology, programming….

    You’re not fooling anyone John.

    21
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    Mute John S
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:25 AM

    Dude you are just taking the arguments on tangents now. I would absolutely support time being spent on those rather than religion.
    Maybe take a read of my original point(s) again, it seems to be hard to get it into your thick stupid head.

    10
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    Mute Ian Walsh
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:38 AM

    Elizabeth, you have a hard neck asking a question like that. Are you sick in the head or what?

    14
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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:40 AM

    How naive John with your ‘live and let live’ mantra, failing to see the problem with this(ie. the schools) until it was put on a plate for you.

    As Sean said above, congratulations on being part of the problem.

    16
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    Mute Les Behan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:44 AM

    @ Oldschoolcelt : “Who is to say they are wrong or stupid?”

    This should’ve been a clue to what direction this was going to go :-)

    11
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    Mute Ironballs
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:44 AM

    I consider myself an atheist but I have to say that some atheists are so preachy and militant, they’re just as insufferable as any religious zealot… I certainly don’t object to taking religious holidays… Can we keep that bit please lads?

    19
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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:55 AM

    I know Les, I gave him a chance, I really did…

    10
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    Mute Little Diddy No
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    Aug 5th 2016, 11:55 AM

    Some may not be aware that when the state (tragically) offered the religious orders a bail out with the redress payments the orders would have to pay to victims of their orders past abuse, nobody thought it would reach such high amounts (currently 1.5 billion). The orders agreed to pay a token 480 million in some cash but mostly buildings. They have disgracefully failed to do so, and we are all stuck with that 1.5 billion debt that is not out debt (other countries did not bail out private religious organisations). Most of the orders have in fact since put their built assets beyond reach in trusts.

    In addition, the state (remarkably) continues its capital school building and re-building programme that has seen it pay out billions to re-build schools buildings that ‘belong’ to religious orders – those new buildings then remain the assets of the order, with no strings attached whatsoever.

    So don’t tell me we have to buy out the buildings to set up the kind of multi-d schools that a majority of Irish citizens in every single poll in recent years say they would prefer. Even the bishops have agreed that they owe the state big time and have agreed to hand over buildings to the state – it’s just that to date only a few have been handed over.

    We need to get more assertive, in the understanding that we have been paying for every single aspect of these schools for generations now – including the buildings. We need to see in return a commitment to delivery of an inclusive 21st century education, not a medieval indoctrinating one.

    14
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    Mute Little Diddy No
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:04 PM

    The state, apparently, is still committed (as with the banks) to trying to recoup as much as possible of that 1.5 billion bailout from the church, but where is the progress on that? Meanwhile, why do they keep giving the church privileged access to state funding for stuff like full-time, church-appointed chaplains in our state schools and hospitals whose only job is to ‘form the Catholic faith’ and minister to their own members? Or why do they continue to re-build school buildings belonging to the same orders, at huge expense, without getting anything back?

    11
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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:48 PM

    Aware of all of that, Rob, but the point of this discussion is those youngsters who are linked to the drinking culture that’s out of control. Thank you anyway.

    I challenged Tommy MacDonagh on his term ‘abuse’ being applied to the efforts of some – a church group or otherwise – to somehow assist in curbing this particular issue.

    Frankly, I believe it should start in the home; parents should lead by example.

    Are all parents/households beyond reproach in this respect? I don’t think so.

    The health warnings are high profile so there really are NO excuses.

    One can’t help those who do not want to be helped so I doubt it will ever be resolved satisfactorily.

    4
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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 1:00 PM

    Hear, hear, John S!

    4
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    Mute Rob Cahill
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    Aug 5th 2016, 1:22 PM

    Fair enough Elizabeth but the RCC need to learn that it has no moral authority anymore because of the damage they inflicted in the past. Also kids are growing up with more access to information than ever before and they realise much earlier that nothing the preach about is real. A Catholic pioneer group saying bring back the pledge is like using a bicycle puncture repair kit to stop Niagara falls.

    8
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    Mute Marjorie Magee
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    Aug 5th 2016, 4:58 PM

    I just kept my mouth firmly shut during the pledge !

    1
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    Mute James Delaney
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    Aug 5th 2016, 11:43 PM

    @tommy McD – What a stupid idiotic comment.

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    Mute tommy macdonagh
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    Aug 5th 2016, 6:16 AM

    just get rid of the catholic pioneers association = problem solved

    141
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    Mute I Am A Horse
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:34 AM

    Or get rid of alcohol :-D

    15
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    Mute NO 2 FF/FG/LAB
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    Aug 5th 2016, 6:19 AM

    The pledge is like religion, an empty promise

    81
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    Mute John Campbell
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    Aug 5th 2016, 6:54 AM

    Any effort to stop the abuse of alcohol especially by the young should be welcomed. Denying the problem and attacking an organisation that is trying to help doesn’t do anything for the many individuals and families whose lives have been destroyed.

    69
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    Mute NO 2 FF/FG/LAB
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:04 AM

    Why don’t the church eliminate alcohol from their religion to set an example? Why is it seen as “the blood of christ”?

    55
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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:06 AM

    Leaving it to kids making an imaginary promise won’t cure it either. We need a holistic approach.

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    Mute Podge
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:50 AM

    Maybe if they did something that would actually help – you know start a programme where they show kids/teens results of prolonged drinking and having stuff for kids to do instead of demanding they say a few silly words

    32
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    Mute Micheal S. O' Ceilleachair
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:06 AM

    Could you elaborate on what you consider the components of your “holistic” approach?

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    Mute Little Diddy No
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:26 PM

    The dogs in the street know that the church is completely irrelevant in the lives of the vast majority of young people and they will not look to the church for moral or any kind of guidance. It is ridiculous to believe the fantasy that they will. What we need are proper evidence-based programmes delivered as part of schools’ SPHE programmes, where young people can learn about what harm excessive drinking, and binge drinking, can do to their bodies and minds, and learn how to minimise that harm, even if they do drink.

    8
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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 5:34 PM

    Well said, John Campbell!

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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 5:50 PM

    The education is there for the taking; it’s high profile.

    But it’s largely ignored.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:04 AM

    Lol yeah because we all took the pledge and kept it! How about big activity centres with lots to do to keep the kids out of fields drinking.

    65
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    Mute Little Diddy No
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:09 PM

    Indeed, it beggars belief that this medieval religious version is still being offered to young people who largely see through and reject the church and everything to do with it. SPHE classes on the physical damage drinking can do to your body and mind, and youth-led youth projects, would have a better chance of reaching young people. And let’s not forget that they did not lick it off the ground in our booze-soaked culture – a bit of role modelling from parents and society would not go amiss.

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    Mute A B
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:30 PM

    Drinking in fields was some of the best times I had

    1
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    Mute Anthony Whelan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 6:57 AM

    I suppose they’ll also bring back asking you to become a priest too. The world’s moved on from those days people

    56
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    Mute Matt Donovan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:03 AM

    Pioneer total abstinence association… bet their Christmas parties are some craic.

    55
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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:59 PM

    When they’re not relying on alcohol for a good time, they probably are.

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    Mute Jester VonDoom
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:15 AM

    i totally abstain from dogmatic thinking

    53
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    Mute Screaming Toddy
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    Aug 5th 2016, 6:57 AM

    I drank for the first time the weekend after I got my pledge

    49
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    Mute Barry Somers
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:59 AM

    I didn’t take the pledge, flat out refused saying I didn’t need to make some silly pledge and get a pin to not drink.

    I got allot of flack from the teacher for refusing to do so. By the time everyone was 16 id say 95% of the class (if not more broke the pledge), I personally didn’t drink till after I was 18.

    My reason is I grew up in a pub, saw the good and bad of drink. So for me education played a part in my decision. Not some silly religious pledge.

    I drink the odd time but I’m not pushed at all about drinking,

    66
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    Mute Rob Cahill
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:33 AM

    We had a dolly mixture before the confirmation started.

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    Mute Brendan Hughes
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:07 AM

    Wow. You’re such a rebel Toddy.

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    Mute Screaming Toddy
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:44 PM

    I know. Somebody had to stand up to the man and it was never going to be a square like you Brendan Hughes

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    Mute Screaming Toddy
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:45 PM

    In reality though the point of my post was to point out how the pledge means nothing to anyone but don’t worry Brendan, you continue to mis read things.

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    Mute aboutallthethings
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    Aug 5th 2016, 8:35 AM

    I made the pledge over 20 years ago. At the time it was just another thing that was expected of you in school. I’m still a”pioneer”. Back then you took it for a length of time. I took it till I was 21. I didn’t take it out of religious reasons, more of a promise. I had a family member who was an alcoholic at the time, they died not long after I took the pledge. I saw first hand how devastating alcoholism can be, and what it can do to a person. At the time that person want viewed as an alcoholic, they just “enjoyed a few pints”. Alcohol killed him. Nothing else, alcohol. When I turned 21, I made a decision to remain a non drinker. It is something I am proud of for myself. Often people don’t understand and ask why I don’t drink, and say “fair play”, like it’s some magical feat. Others simply can’t fathom it. Like it’s some mad concept, saying “I couldn’t not drink, it’s impossible”. And I find that a little sad. Thru say they have to drink to enjoy a night out, that you can’t have a night out without drink. I am the first one on an empty dance floor dancing, badly (very badly). You don’t need to be out of your mind drunk to enjoy yourself. I have two close friends who have developed a drinking problem over the course of the last few years. It started small, but developed into a reliance on drink. It is now at the point where they will drink maybe five pints (total) a day, before, during and after work and on a day off, it’s oblivion. Yet they think it’s grand, that they are legends for doing it. And it doesn’t help that their colleagues egg them on. For entertainment. One of them is in a position of great responsibility for people’s safety. But you may as well talk to the wall. We all know that the problem with alcohol in Ireland is huge, possibly the worst it’s ever been. And it’s not getting better. Bringing back the pledge won’t make much difference, if any at all, but if it got some to think for a second and say to themselves, “let’s see if I can do this,” then it would be something. By all means, go out and enjoy yourselves, but enjoy responsibly. You might think you are the big man/woman drinking a pile of pints. But think of the damage you are doing to yourself. Your health is your wealth.

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    Mute Jester VonDoom
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:03 AM

    you can’t take your health with you when you go, may as well get a bit of use out of your liver, lungs, and libido!

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    Mute Rob Cahill
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:36 AM

    Most people don’t develop drinking problems, A few glasses of wine with dinner is actually good for you. And a lot of us enjoy a few pints after a hard weeks work. Do you avoid flying on Airplanes too because some people die on them??

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    Mute Little Diddy No
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:12 PM

    It’s great the path you took, but we all need to recognise that the religious – while imposed on our children and young people through our medieval Catholic indoctrinating education system – are completely irrelevant as mentors for most young people, so we need to look to evidence-based programmes that can take place as part of SPHE in schools and peer youth work.

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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:56 PM

    A delight to read, Aboutallthethings!

    Agree that alcohol is not a requirement to ensure enjoyment.

    Absolutely true that, in most cases, you may as well talk to the proverbial wall.

    None so blind as those who do not see and, even worse, those who DON’T WANT to see.

    Thank you for sharing.

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    Mute aboutallthethings
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    Aug 5th 2016, 4:38 PM

    I couldn’t agree more.

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    Mute Barry Somers
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:53 AM

    abstinence programmes don’t work, they don’t work for this and they certainly don’t work as a replacement for sex education.

    If you look at the states with the highest levels of abstinence programmes in the USA in replacement of sex education programmes, they also have the highest Teen pregnancy rates!

    Education is key here! abstinence only tries to ignore reality without proper education. Education allows you to modify reality by giving teenagers the tools to make better informed decisions.

    If you look at the Netherlands when it comes to sex Ed they start sex ex at a younger age then the USA, UK or Ireland and they have lower Teen pregnancy rates.

    If rather any child properly educated on alcohol then blindly swearing to never touch the stuff.

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    Mute Little Diddy No
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:22 PM

    Indeed Barry, our current religious-dominated education system is authoritarian and indoctrinating – approaches that simply don’t work and that harm young people’s fragile sense of self and deny them a space to explore issues relevant to their lives.

    It is an utter disgrace that religious orders have been allowed to retain control over the ethos of 96% of our completely state funded and resourced education system, and that they are not required to deliver the full state curriculum in all areas by the state in exchange for such massive funding.

    When it comes to the state’s sensitive and moral Relationships & Sexuality Education curriculum, a report in 2010 found that many Catholic ethos state schools do not deliver it at all, and of the few who do, it is often taught as part of religious instruction.
    http://www.dcya.gov.ie/documents/publications/Life_Skills_Matter.pdf

    The bishops’ medieval guidelines for RSE instruct teachers in Catholic schools not to respect any views in the classroom that stray from strict Catholic dogma, because it is ‘not a matter of opinion’.

    With young people crying out for help (social and emotional learning and learning about relationships were the top topics identified by young people in a consultation on the Junior and Leaving Cycle on what they wanted to learn in school) and forced to get all their sex education from porn, we badly need to require all schools to teach the proper state version and to allow discussion in the classroom that strays from Catholic dogma – after all, it’s not OK just to say that living together before marriage, contraception, divorce and gay relationships are all grave mortal sins where young people need real guidance and spaces to discuss all these issues for themselves, and where the law says that LGBT marriage is now equal.

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    Mute NO 2 FF/FG/LAB
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    Aug 5th 2016, 7:04 AM

    According to the church jesus is made out of wine…

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Aug 5th 2016, 1:04 PM

    But the wine is magicked into blood, so it’s not booze but… Um… The blood of a 2016 year old man… Mmmmm tasty!

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    Mute Derek Lyster
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    Aug 5th 2016, 8:29 AM

    Yep, because taking the pledge will solve alcohol abuse and underage drinking straight away!!!!

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    Mute Richard
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:36 AM

    So many issues with this:

    1. What about the kids that aren’t Catholic or are “Catholic” but their Confirmation will be the last time they go to church?
    2. Prohibition and abstentionism just makes it worse – countries very nearby have a much healthier attitude to alcohol which is a result of a less guilt-laden approach to kids and drinking. If your parents will give you wine with your dinner and you can got to a pub at 16, why would you bother necking straight spirits is a cold, damp field?
    3. Why is this even news? Who cares what a particular sect of a religion says about that religion?
    4. I’m pretty sure abstention from alcohol as about as good a safeguard from alcoholism as abstinence from sex is a contraceptive.

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    Mute Sean Fallon
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:07 AM

    How’s about ridding ourselves of the Catholic church and confirmation, communion and everything else connected with this sad practice… outdated useless corrupt… trainee priests using gay dating apps? Enough said!!

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    Mute Con O Sullivan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 2:57 PM

    Your atheist brethren in the Soviet Union tried to get rid of Catholics and other Christians so are you going to use the same methods for your operation.

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    Mute Sean Fallon
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    Aug 5th 2016, 4:14 PM

    Ah great idea…lots and lots of lovely vodka will sort this issue out :)

    Mind you the priests would probably drink it all before anyone else got their hands on it…. :)

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    Mute Richard Costigan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:19 AM

    Hahahaha…..the confirmation pledge……Really? Sometimes I wonder when this country is actually going to grow up.

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    Mute Rochelle
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:44 AM

    I remember it being optional although we were told we’d be given a bag of taytos if we took it so a lot of people did. I never drank until I was 18 anyway but that was out of common sense, I think I had completely forgotten about this “pledge”.

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    Mute Do the Bort man
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:31 AM

    how deluded are these people, to the really think being made to take the pledge at age 12 will have any effect? Most kids don’t even go to mass.

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    Mute Joey_Westland
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:58 AM

    Implanting the seed of sobriety in the consciousness of Irish children.
    What a ridiculous idea.
    Bring them all to the pub instead.

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    Mute Little Diddy No
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:29 PM

    A religious organisation that has no credibility with young people just telling them to take a pledge has not stopped our problem of excessive drinking to date, has it Joey? Religious stuff is only relevant to the minority who still follow the religion, and completely irrelevant to everybody else.

    Proper educational programmes as part of SPHE in school are what is needed – you need to shift people’s awareness and emotions to make them change their behaviour – not just tell them what to do. I hope to live to see an end to our authoritarian, indoctrinating approach in education.

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    Mute Michael Tynan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:01 AM

    This so funny, the Church will bring back the pledge. Good education and people taking drink for what it is a drug, common sense.

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    Mute Joey_Westland
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:02 AM

    Wonderful initiative.
    People need to be challenged more about their drinking habits.
    And that’s the role of religion – challenging human failure.

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    Mute Rob Cahill
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    Aug 5th 2016, 10:18 AM

    Pretty sure the role of religion is controlling the gullible.

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    Mute oldschoolcelt
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    Aug 5th 2016, 11:17 AM

    And that’s the role of religion – challenging human failure.
    ===========

    Except, religion was contrived by humans and Pope lives in a fancy palace whilst there are millions of poor in the world.

    You don’t do irony, do you?

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    Mute Little Diddy No
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:33 PM

    I grew up in the church and all the ‘failures’ they identified were not failures at all. We have had the church teaching our young people for generations, and they still are – so tell me Joey – with some of the most serious teenage and adult binge drinking in the world, and we have had for many generations – do you think it has worked?

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    Mute Con O Sullivan
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    Aug 5th 2016, 2:54 PM

    Oldschool. The Pope does not live in a fancy but in B and B, Would you say the same about Michael D who lives in a 70 room mansion and gets 250,000,000 eu per year and where he is surrounded by well paid flunkeys

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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 5:59 PM

    We, none of us, ‘grew up in the Church’

    We grew up within our own families – first port of call.

    Our families were/are meant to be our primary example.

    It can be our misfortune when/if that works against us.

    Likewise, those others with whom we choose to surround ourselves and emulate.

    Ultimately, we are our own responsibility.

    Entirely up to us to control our own individual behaviours.

    So, let’s quit the BlameGame!

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    Mute Patrick J. O'Rourke
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    Aug 5th 2016, 12:19 PM

    All it does is program the pattern of denial, binge, abstinence, binge, abstinence ad infinitum. Generations of Irish people fell into this and the results are clearly seen. Compare that to actually educating young kids about alcohol from a young age as is done in most European countries. I suppose this is where the genetic argument will cut in here now. “I remember asking an Irish old fella why he drank so much many years ago in London and he replied ” I’m just catching up for my first 18 years that the f%7’7:ing church wouldn’t let us do it”. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 5:25 PM

    ‘Compare that to actually educating young kids about alcohol from a young age as is done in most European countries’.

    There’s a big difference between a bottle of wine, perhaps two – depending on numbers present at the table – and copious amounts and some variety of alcohol frequently to be found in many Irish homes, by way of ‘celebration’.

    Can’t be seen to be ‘mean’!

    Be honest about it.

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    Mute Elizabeth Davenport
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    Aug 5th 2016, 5:30 PM

    Oh, and . . . the Church did not stop anyone from drinking, to excess or otherwise.

    The PTAA was set up in an effort to dissuade people from indulgence of the demon drink.

    Over indulgence is the root of Ireland’s alcohol problem.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Aug 5th 2016, 1:01 PM

    Pioneer teen discos back in the 80s were great craic, especially seeing some of the older ones pi$$ed at them trying to act sober.

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    Mute Del Haven
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    Aug 5th 2016, 11:45 AM

    As opposed to the Protestant confirmation service where you’re actually given wine.

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    Mute aurilton
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    Aug 5th 2016, 9:58 AM

    Have they not heard of the ‘Ceremony of Light’?

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    Mute Dan Keane
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    Aug 5th 2016, 8:48 PM

    Good to see this.

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    Mute Dan Keane
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    Aug 5th 2016, 8:46 PM

    Good to see it still going.

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    Mute James Delaney
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    Aug 5th 2016, 11:46 PM

    If the Pledge prevents or even reduces alcohol abuse, it has to be a good thing. It should have nothing to do with the RCC. The RCC is irrelevant today.

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    Mute Joey_Westland
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    Aug 6th 2016, 4:58 PM

    **SUBJECTIVE OPINION**

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    Mute James Delaney
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    Aug 6th 2016, 6:20 PM

    “OBJECTIVE & OBSERVANT OPINION” – Go out to ur nearest town @1am.

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