Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
PAYMENT OF THE Substitution and Supervision Allowance will be discontinued with effect from 17 January 2014 if the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland (ASTI) further reject the Haddington Road Agreement, said the Department of Education and Skills this afternoon.
They added that the discharge of substitution and supervision duties will be mandatory and unpaid from that date in line with the terms of the Haddington Road Agreement.
Payment
Following Cabinet discussions on the issue, ministers said that the continued payment of the Substitution and Supervision Allowance to ASTI members is “unsustainable”.
The Government added the Haddington Road Agreement “provides for the integration of the Supervision and Substitution Allowance into the pay scale of teachers in 2017 and 2018″.
The statement continued, stating:
… this Agreement removes the freeze on increments currently applying to ASTI members under the Financial Emergency legislation and provides for an improved pay scale for new entrant teachers together with a range of measures designed to improve the employment prospects of young teachers and to diminish levels of casualisation in teaching.
Industrial action
Responding to the Department of Education and Skills’ statement today that the Government will use its powers under the Financial Emergency in the Public Interest legislation to make supervision and substitution a compulsory, unpaid duty for ASTI members, the ASTI General Secretary Pat King said:
This move to unilaterally change teachers’ terms and conditions will lead to a serious escalation of the current industrial dispute in schools.The ASTI has already stated that if the Government uses the FEMPI legislation again to worsen teachers’ terms and conditions, we will respond with strong trade union action.
Yesterday, the teacher’s union promised that it will take action if their members are targeted for redundancy.
The ASTI will ballot on the deal for a third time in the coming weeks. ASTI is the only teachers’ union to have rejected the deal thus far and said it can not recommend that its members accept the deal.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Shouldn’t the headline read “Payment for supervision and substitution to stop in 2014 if ASTI reject Haddington deal and Payment for supervision and substitution to stop in 2014 if ASTI accept Haddington deal” ? Or how about “Government to unilaterally break Croke Park agreement” ?
Donal, it has already broken it by calling it to a halt a year early.
Well according to the article, it should read “Payment for supervision and substitution to stop in 2017 and 2018 if ASTI accept Haddington deal.”
In the UK and several other European countries, supervision is part of teachers contracts.
Just saying.
Not in Germany or France, where I worked. You taught your hours and went home. No extra curricular stuff, either.
I note you never mentioned the work conditions, pay or pensions when you referred to working in France and Germany. How about it?
Why would I mention those things? I was referring to a specific comment about supervision and substitution. Work conditions etc. were similar to Ireland, the main difference is there was hardly any extra curricular involvement, teachers just taught and went home.
Still no complete comparison. Selective information.
Sorry, but it was twenty years ago. I didn’t save my pay cheques or my timetables. I’m not quite sure what you want to know. I can only tell you the job was much the same in pay and conditions, but there was little extra curricular involvement, and certainly no supervision or substitution. Take it or leave it.
Agreement? Sounds more like a directive to me.
Ah but as a great man once said “It’s a great job”!!!!
If you don’t play ball with our terms, we will force you to undertake work for no pay. You won’t even have a choice not to undertake the non-paid work using the “Financial Emergency in the Public Interest”.
Sound government.
Genuine question here, if teachers refuse to do S&S will it be a strike of work to rule.
It’s a major difference.
If teachers refuse to do S and S, they continue doing their job, which is to teach. They’ll be available to work but management will close schools according health and safety laws.
The government is doing a number on the voting teachers by scaring the bejasus out of them & it will probably work.
They rejected the last deal by a small majority on a low turnout & the prospect of the sky falling in on their heads will probably be enough to swing it for the government.
Funny thing is the most relieved people will be the ASTI leadership who are very exposed without the TUI supporting them. I suspect they would like this to go away & get back to doing sweet feck all for their members while pocketing huge salaries from the union dues.
About time,how many different top ups and bonuses do teachers expect to get for doing the job theyre already more than adequately compensated for doing,
By law all workers are entitled to a break after 4 hours’ work unless they waive that right. So I guess at 1 pm or so each day from 17th January parents will be coming into schools to supervise their children while we have our legal break. Glad that’s sorted so. Just curious as to who will supervise classes where teachers are out now.
Quinn is doing some job ensuring there’ll be a massive no vote. No one likes a bully. If we weren’t talking about schools, where bullying can be a cancer, this would actually be funny.
Can i ask out of genuine curiosity –
Is supervision etc included in your contract of employment or is this completely separate to your job description?
I only ask as before I can form an opinion on this I need to establish some facts.
Absolutely not in teachers’ contracts. Teachers volunteer to do s and s at the start of every year, and there are plenty who’ve never done it. If HR goes through, those teachers will essentially have to pay 1700e every year to NOT work during their lunch break, and the rest of them won’t even have that choice.
… have to PAY, NOT to do FREE work!!!
Are they for real???
@ Michael, thanks for the explanation. I think the general public (going by some comments on here) are not fully aware of the facts. I, for one, think it’s a disgrace to expect teachers (who have already taken massive pay cuts) should now have to pay for the right to have a lunch break. For those saying “They should just do their job” need to understand that teachers don’t seem to have an issue with doing their jobs, it’s the additional, non-contract work, that is the issue.
Never give in to blackmail, Quinn is a disgrace.
Why don’t the current government just do away with the charade of democracy and break out the jackboots now. The thin veneer of democracy in this country is gone. Some public servants, including TDs, break the so called salary cap yet Howlin tells is theirs nothing that can be done. Enter stage right Quinn with draconian medieval legislation and bully boy tactics. Brilliant just brilliant leadership
Oh yes the ASTI good on ya screw as much out of the taxpayer as you can!
I think teachers pay tax to.;) I think teachers should get a pay rise for standing up for them selfs. Well done teachers stay strong
Ink Toner needs replacing. Only coming through in greyscale. Very hazy and muddled…
… love it! Good response …
Ink Toner, do you have any clue what you are talking about at all?? Could you please explain what you meant by your post. It makes absolutely no sense and it is quite clear that you haven’t a clue what you are talking about. Please read up on the issue and make informed comment instead of your hypocritical nonsense. Thanks
Well said Finian. My sentiment exactly…
On the same day that SNA “new” jobs are announced. (Which is great news of course)
This government really are concentrating heavily on spin.
totally on spin tony..as was seen on sunday with enda kenny providing a pr consultant to “sort out” the mess on salary top ups..spin spin spin and censure..read the independent daily and you will barely see a mention of the govt from front to back..the old d o b contact is paying off nicely
This is slightly off topic but very interested to hear the FG trolls comment:
Detroit city today has been allowed begin a bankruptcy plan.
“Judge Steven Rhodes’ decision to allow it is a critical milestone. He said pensions, like any contract, can be cut, adding that a provision in Michigan’s Constitution protecting public pensions is not a bulletproof shield in a bankruptcy.”
So Fg/Labour, what about cutting your cronies pensions (ex TDs, Senators, Judges, Bankers, etc etc?)
I know this was said in a US court but it’s definitely food for thought.
What about aboloshing that useless quango the TC to get a few quid in????? Oh no sure there are members of ALL teaching unions on its board.
you mean the teaching council? I’m a teacher and ASTI member and I agree, you could and should get rid of it in the morning. Useless is not the f***ing word.
ASTI! Welcome to the real world. !!!!!
You mean the version of ‘the real world’ that you have been subjected to so often that you now accept it as the only one? Try imagining a different, fairer one in which everybody’s needs are met
Ok. In your job from now on you get paid less. You work more. You take work home. You volunteer to do extra activities at work that make your workplace a better place. You also now don’t have a break, you have to eat your lunch while you work. That’s the real world propose by the bully boy Quinn
Blacksod, in what part of the “real world” are you expected to do extra work for no pay?
I work for a large company and all of us have had to do extra work with no extra pay. We have taken a pay cut over the past few years but we realise that to keep the company open and all of us in jobs we do this. We might not be happy about it but thats the “real world”. I don’t agree with what’s happening to teachers but I do get annoyed when they think that they are the only ones suffering
In most of the real world, you get paid for the work you do.
When did teachers say they are the only ones suffering?
Private sector of course
Tony teachers already do lots of extra work for no pay in terms of extra classes, sports drama etc. I’ve had to stay back late in work this week twice because I had to collect my daughter twice late from school (once for extra maths and once for football training) and there was no point in me going home and coming out again. Each time i collected her at around 6 pm and each time a teacher was there seeing her off. I’m not saying every teacher does it but I’ll be forever grateful for the free time they give. As far as i can tell they will lose money if they vote no so there has to be a reason for doing so. From chats i have had with some teacher friends their gripe is not that they are losing lots of money but the extra time that’s required from them to do this extra admin work will be taken from actual class preparation and extra classes etc. I don’t know about you but I’d rather a teacher do her best for my child than spent fruitless hours doing form ticking admin work but then again I don’t tend to to have a chip on my shoulder like a lot of teacher bashers on this site.
Explain please? Your comment is meaningless to me.
I agree with you and teaching is a thankless job that I would personally not do myself. I was just pointing out the fact the the private sector also have had pay cuts and work extra for no extra money.
My wife and I work I the private sector and most of my friends. All of us are being asked to do extra work, extra hours and for no extra money. That’s just the way it is. Not sure where you are getting your real world information from
Tony thats the problem as far as i can see. They are not complaining about the extra work they have to do because they do it anyway. It’s the fact that the new extra work being asked of them is (I’m open to correction on this) pointless and is taking away from the work they should be doing i.e preparing classes and will just rile up enough teachers that the good will they give in doing extra stuff will be gone. So what will be left with? A school where the only education our kids receive will be from the books and a set of staff that to be honest will clock in and clock out, tick boxes a civil servant in Dublin has asked them to do, have no interaction with our kids apart from teaching them and pick up their depleted pay packet at the end of the week. As a parent I don’t want to send my children to places like that. I want them to learn in a place where even if you are not good academically their other talents are looked after.
I’ll be honest I was a git at school and hated the books but if it wasnt for the GAA and soccer and the free time the teachers gave to coaching us i’d never have gone to school. It was only when i got older I coped onto myself and got myself a good education and realised what they did for us.
Your employer is breaking employment law. You should read your contract, and see how many hours you are scheduled for, and point out your employer needs to give you remuneration for any extra time worked, or just work your scheduled hours.
It’s on your own head if you volunteer, but you cannot fault a person for abiding by the law.
LOL…you are too funny. The renumeration you get is usually time in lieu. You get no extra money for putting in the extra work as this is covered in most company contracts. I am sure there are plenty of people to take my place. I am happy to do the extra work if it means I can keep my job. And don’t bother trying to tell me it is against the law for them to sack me for refusing to do extra work because its not. Maybe extra hours but not extra work. Most companies would have their contracts very well worded to cover this like “business needs” and so on.
So you get time in lieu. Lucky you.
I don’t get time in lieu for the extra work I do. I don’t have the same time off you do either so I could do with it.
If ASTI teachers accept the revised proposals of the HRA they will accept doing S&S for free, which the other teachers who originally accepted the HRA are already doing for free BUT some ASTI teachers will be able to opt out of doing this extra (not in their contract) work by paying €1769 from their salary.
No I’m not delusional- teachers who have never done the additional work (or been paid for it) can now pay €1769 to NOT do the work their colleagues will be forced to do for free!! Read that as often as you want- it still does not make sense.
So, take another pay cut and do more work for free or pay not to do work for free. Sounds like fiction? Sadly it’s very true.
Emergency measures… BS clause caused by the Unions allowing it’s terms of reference in CPA! Useless union lawyers… we payed them so much money to protect us and it cost us 10,000 of thousands of dollars over the last 6 years individually!! I hate the lot of them! Next time… I will take my indivdual cases (as for many others), as a collective! Every member should learn from the mistakes from the other unions! An individual collective of cases is stronger then the one collective under one agreement…in the courts of EU labour laws! It’s time for the this Gov to show some backbone and ampathy for the sacrifice we have made ….Down with the USC tax !
I would even vote for them if they removed the USC!
Most of the government are teachers they should hand back their pay or go back to teaching no more sitting on the fence we can’t afford it
have your say