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DCU

What's he up to?: What to make of the Bertie Ahern revival roadshow

The former Taoiseach says being president is not on his agenda.

LAST UPDATE | 2 Mar 2023

THE BERTIE AHERN revival roadshow has been hard to miss. 

You’ve most likely been made aware of his new podcast in collaboration with Newstalk, or heard the news about him officially rejoining Fianna Fáil after his resignation from the party in 2012.

You may have heard soundbites from his appearance alongside Alistair Campbell at an Ibec event in the Mansion House, or his stint as a talking head on popular British current affairs podcast The News Agents

Today, you might have seen pictures of him donning a tasseled mortarboard as he received an honorary doctorate from DCU for his “part in forging the Good Friday Agreement” alongside Monica McWilliams.

“The island of Ireland is lucky to have a man of your patience, your persistence,” McWilliams said of her counterpart.

McWilliams, founder of the Northern Ireland Women’s Coalition, further described Bertie as having “the gift of humility” and a knack for “always being able to see the other’s perspective”. She told the audience that he had been her “rock” throughout the Good Friday Agreement negotiations. 

This is the kind of effusive praise that has followed him for the last few weeks. Introduced on The News Agents podcast for a discussion about the Windsor Framework, it was said that: “What he doesn’t know about negotiating these deals isn’t worth knowing.”

Business is booming for Bertie. But what exactly is he up to?

It might be that Ahern has simply reemerged as a sort of free-to-use primary source for the silver anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, but his current omnipresence has many wondering whether the Drumcondra man fancies a seven-year spell in Phoenix Park. 

Whether Ahern plans to run for president remains a mystery. The former Taoiseach has been coy when asked direct questions about the subject, though today he gave an answer that may offer some insight into his thinking. 

“That’s not on my agenda. If it ever arises, the first thing is to live that long. I’ve lost so many friends, even since Christmas,” he said. Ahern will be 73 in September and around 75 by the time of the next presidential election, five years older than Michael D Higgins was when he first took office in 2011.

Ahern also cited his role on the Council of State over the last 26 years as a reason to keep quiet. As a former Taoiseach, Ahern sits on the council which advises the president on the exercise of his powers, and said that it would be “disrespectful to our president” to talk about the presidency. Nevertheless, Ahern refuses to rule out a run. 

It is possible, of course, that Ahern has simply been missing the limelight. Ahern remains the longest-serving Taoiseach since Eamon De Valera, having served as Ireland’s head of government for just shy of 11 years.

A former foot soldier of Charlie Haughey’s, a finance minister at the outset of the Celtic Tiger and Taoiseach throughout its peak, a significant player in the Northern Ireland peace process, and a figure that was rarely out of the headlines, it is easy to speculate that Bertie might just miss the life that was once his day-to-day. 

It doesn’t seem too far-fetched to suggest he’s enjoying the adulation without the responsibility that comes with holding public office. The chance to hold forth, shake hands and rub shoulders with little danger of hearing the words “Mahon tribunal” – two words that would surely resurface with a vengeance should he announce any intention to represent the public once more. 

As it stands, Ahern is free to enjoy the kind of rose-tinted tributes usually reserved for those who are not planning a comeback. Even current Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has walked back his 2008 criticism of Ahern, wherein he said Ahern had “essentially given the John Gilligan defence — that he won the money on the horses” to the tribunal.

“This is a defence for drug dealers and pimps and not the kind of thing that should be tolerated from a former Taoiseach and member of this house,” Varadkar said in 2008.

Asked about the comments a few weeks ago, Varadkar said those remarks were made at a “particular point in time” and switched the focus to Ahern’s role in the Northern Ireland peace process. 

To a certain kind of mind, it looks like Bertie is campaigning for something, and at a pace that could not possibly kept up for the next two-and-a-half years. 

A protest staged during today’s ceremony by the Connolly Youth Movement, who labelled Ahern “the architect of the financial crisis which ruined the lives of so many young people”, gives some sense of the resistance that Ahern could face if he is to re-enter public life. 

Asked by The Journal about the protest, Ahern said: “I always like to see students doing their bit. I’m glad they had nothing better to do this morning, it was nice of them to come along and say hello to me.”

As unbothered as Ahern seemed by the protest, it could offer some insight into the purpose of the Bertie Ahern revival roadshow. He might not be campaigning for president, but he’s certainly campaigning for his own legacy. 

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    Mute Fiona Ryan
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    Oct 23rd 2014, 11:59 PM

    There is no risk of perforation for medical abortions, it was really shocking bias on RTE’s behalf from start to finish. The whole tone was ridiculously critical of women on web. In addition, there is no way of telling the difference between a miscarriage and medically induced abortion. The whole show was full of scaremongering and outright falsehoods. Shocking.

    Medical abortion is the safest type of termination a women can have. Instead of being outraged that desperate women are using the best and cheapest possible resource available to them, let’s ask ourselves why they feel forced to do so. Because this country forces them into the situation. Banning abortion will never stop abortion, it just sweeps it under the rug. We need free, safe and legal abortion in Ireland, stop the exportation, stop the oppression!

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:33 AM

    Unless you are calling every Irish male a rapist then no, this country is not forcing women into this situation.

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    Mute Fiona Ryan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:37 AM

    Pregnancy occurs at all times and no one has the rig to make judgements on the circumstances a woman finds herself pregnant in. How or why or when she got pregnant is not the issue, what matters is her choice to continue the pregnancy or not. Pregnancy is an a condition only women face, and it is an issue that they have no choice in continuing or not under Irish abortion laws. So yeah, women are forced.

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:06 AM

    Over 30 women had an abortion for at least the 9th time last year in England… and that’s okay with you?

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    Mute Fin Tastic
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:14 AM

    And what has that got to do with you?

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:35 AM

    Last time I checked my constitution extended the right to life for the unborn. So, it has something to do with every one of us when laws are being broken. With all the methods of contraceptions and the morning after pill widely available in Ireland it proves how selfish and shallow some people are that they would still procure an abortion. The fact that some women have had an abortion more times than there are fingers on their hands shows how blatent the abuse of the taxpayers funding is ongoing. So, when you have a section of society clamouring for abortion on demand I think you will find its very much my business if the taxpayer is expected to foot the bill. Maybe the lone cricketer has no problem with this, but I do.

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    Mute Tayto Blaaah
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    Oct 24th 2014, 2:07 AM

    Fiona we will have every Tom Dick and Harry getting pregnant and then having abortions if they legalize this. People need to use contraception if they don’t wish to have children. I don’t want children so therefore I pay for contraception rather than taking a risk and getting pregnant. Of course there is horrible situations involving rape etc. but there are other options ie. adoption. I am so against abortion, it’s a life for Gods sake!

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:13 AM

    TheLoneHurler your taxes and mine pay for smokers to have chemotherapy “on demand”, for alcoholics to have liver transplants, junkies to get methadone and for the morbidly obese to have gastric bands fitted. Do you consider that medical treatment “blatant abuse of taxpayers’ funding”?

    And since when is the *Irish* taxpayer paying for women to have multiple abortions? Why should it concern you what the NHS does with its funding? Do your taxes contribute to the NHS?

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    Mute Fraj Llecrup
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:29 AM

    @ fiona ryan

    “Pregnancy is an a condition only women face, and it is an issue that they have no choice in continuing or not under Irish abortion laws. So yeah, women are forced.”

    Would you ever make up your mind? The pro-aborts claim that it’s a woman’s CHOICE.

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:58 AM

    “Last time I checked my constitution extended the right to life for the unborn. So, it has something to do with every one of us when laws are being broken. ”

    The constitution also states that a woman’s place is in the home. We can assume then that every time you see a woman working, you let them know they in in breach of the constitution?

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    Mute speak up
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    Oct 24th 2014, 7:43 AM

    @Tayto… Your against abortion, probably due to religion and use contraception. Sure isn’t the catholic church against contraception?? Look at some African countries where aids is still an epidemic, they are told that god does not allow contraception and so it is banned, which is a load of bollox.
    And adoption? Yeah that’s great. You tell the victim of a horrific crime like rape that she must now carry her assailants child for 9months against her will, essentially making her a hostage, and that after all that, shure there’s adoption! Who is anyone to decide what A woman should or should not do with her body? Who is anyone to play god and decide that they know best and abortion is bad? Who is anyone to make this women feel even worse? By being so adamantly against abortion you are making decisions that are not yours to make and the fact you make those decisions based on a book of fables written about a man YEARS after his death in a language that has been translated and basterdized so many times since it was originally written there is no way that anything is in true context anymore, a book of stories written by me who were named after the Beatles by the looks of things cos there were no Paul’s or Johns in the middle east or wherever back then is ridiculous. PS this man whom dictates your views, Jesus, I do hope you do not visualise him as any form of white man what so ever as he was most definately not.

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    Mute Willy Moon
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    Oct 24th 2014, 8:09 AM

    Fiona you will get a shit load of response back on you opinion, and to be honest everybody will have great points weather it’s for or against, so don’t get defensive, to me fair to everyone it might be a good idea to make it legal, but it has to be for the right reasons whatever they are, it has to be better to support it and protect woman then let them off buying drugs on the internet and taken them without real medical support, I would take the view it is wrong for abortion but also take to view we have to protect the woman and support them in circumstances like abortion,

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    Mute Mike O Neill
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    Oct 24th 2014, 8:26 AM

    @Fiona
    I think I’ll take the opinion of the Master of the Rotunda over you.

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    Mute Alison Palison
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:25 AM

    They claim that it SHOULD be her right to choose. At the moment there is no choice.

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    Mute Fiona Ryan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:30 AM

    I think you should question the master of the rotundas biases. I’ve never heard even the strongest anti-choice campaigner make such a bollocks claim. Have you ever heard of a woman miscarrying suffer from perforations? No? Well that’s because it can’t happen unless something physical is inserted which doesn’t happen during medical abortions. Medical abortions induces miscarriage and it is impossible to tell the differences between the two.

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:34 AM

    Fiona

    He is the Master of the Rotunda. Do you think its wise for women to ignore his opinion?

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    Mute Thomas Mac
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:50 AM

    Are you worried about the woman’s health ?

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    Mute Fiona Ryan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:51 AM

    I think it’s unwise for him to be giving women scaremongering information that is related to the dangers of surgical abortions when speaking about medical abortions and after giving what is categorically, easily verifiably false information it would make me seriously question him and his affiliations.

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    Mute Kyle Browne
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:53 AM

    Your constitution? Are you a Sovereign state? Well don’t worry, nobody is going to take the unborn inside you away, unless they do a psych test and see how much of a lunatic you are.

    Where is your evidence of women from Ireland receiving 9 abortions btw?

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    Mute Darren Mullen
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:08 AM

    I agree. It’s not my body, not my choice and I no not of the circumstances the woman is in. What kind of country is this that makes our problem someone else’s? it should be the woman’s right to decide what is right for her.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:08 AM

    Fiona Ryan – excellent post.

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:14 AM

    Yea Fiona
    because in your opinion, everyone who is against abortion is so because of religion..
    Grow up
    People can be against this barbaric practice and not have an ounce of faith or belong to any church.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:18 AM

    Bridget – but you are, are you not?

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    Mute Mike O Neill
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:28 AM

    @Fiona
    Please list your obstetric and/or gynacological qualifications so we can see why you believe you can insult one of the most highly qualified and respected medics in the country.

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    Mute Fiona Ryan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:54 AM

    Bridget, I never mentioned religion once you’re probably getting me mixed up with someone else.

    And no Mike I’m not an obstetrician. But the claim made last night was absolutely false, as the doctor from women on web tried to testify. Google it, you won’t find that accusation on even the life institute, it’s absolutely false and related to the potential risk for surgical abortion. That is a fact and easily verified. I suggest you verify it yourself instead of blindly believing a man whose claims were put into question by the other doctor on the show who had 25 years experience in providing terminations to women.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:55 AM

    Mike – trying to control opinions as well as choices.

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    Mute Mike O Neill
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:32 AM

    Stating my own opinion doesn’t mean I’m trying to control anyone. Victim mentality much?

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    Mute Joyce Galgey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:36 AM

    An acorn is to a tree what an embryo is to human life, just a possibility. No matter what form of contraception a female uses, at least 1 in every 100 females will become pregnant while using contraception. The morning after pill would need to be taken by every woman, everytime she has sex, even when she is using contraception if she is to 100% sure to stop herself from becoming pregnant. Alternatively men could keep control over their sperm and not have sex, they could also have a snip or they could realise that once they ejaculate they lose all control over what happens to that sperm until and unless it results in a human life. There are many taxpayers who would much rather fund services that allow woman autoonomy over their own bodies, then pay for children that are not wanted before they are born and in some cases not carried for properly after they are born, mostly by fathers who happily abandone both the child and the mother. You will of course know that almost every section in society is in favour of limited abortions rights in Ireland. You’re definitely hurling alone when your trying to convince people with your ignorant arguements regarding abortions and contraception reliability. Your lone cricketer, lone hurler analogy is so misogynistic, but its very reflective of the point of veiw you put forwand.

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:37 AM

    Sorry fiona that comment should have been for Speak

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    Mute Florence Nightingale
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:59 AM

    @Fraj
    “Would you ever make up your mind? The pro-aborts claim that it’s a woman’s CHOICE.”‘

    People who are pro choice support a woman’s choice to decide whether she wants to remain pregnant or not. If a woman is forced to remain pregnant because she cannot obtain an abortion when she wants one, then yes, she is begin forced against her will to remain pregnant.

    It’s really quite simple.

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 2:15 PM

    I thought so Bridget but u go to yd r other sites and it’s all religious fanatics

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 2:26 PM

    So..
    Richard Just because people believe in God dosen’t mean that they still can’t have an opinion on abortion..
    It might be reenforced by their faith or not they are still entitled to hold it..

    Why don’t you go on to Secular Pro Life site or Atheist Pro Life sites, I do, they are very interesting as well..

    My point is that you Don’t have to be anyway Religious to be against intentional abortion.

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    Mute PaoloFreire
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    Oct 24th 2014, 2:36 PM

    Tayto-

    As far as I know, neither Tom, Dick, nor Harry can get pregnant, as they are all men. That’s not one to worry about so…

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 2:47 PM

    Bridget – but just to be clear, you are religious?

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    Mute Fraj Llecrup
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:08 PM

    @Florence Nightingale

    It’s even simpler than that!

    Nobody has the right to impose their warped view of “choice” on an innocent unborn baby.

    The right to life of the innocent trumps “choice” every time.

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:31 PM

    Well Paul to be absolutely clear

    1) for starters its really is none if your business

    2) ill answer because I stated it on here before so its nothing new
    I was pro Life long before I found my faith…

    3) you don’t need to have any religion of any kind to be against abortion.

    It really is only common sense, you don’t kill a living human being, at any age or stage in development

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 4:16 PM

    Bridget – Ah come on, Pro Life prior to finding your faith? Am I to assume you were not indoctrinated into the Catholic Church as an infant? Interesting that you call yourself pro life when on another thread you advocated the hanging of a man, when is it ok not to be ProLIfe?

    I would argue that what another persons autonomy is none of your business when it in no way affects you. Further, you have previously espoused your religious views on this site, which makes it other people’s business. Funny how you are happy for your faith to impact on the lives of others, which is what ‘faith’ does, but when the others question your faith, you state it is none of their business. I don’t want you faith to be any if my business, but unfortunately other people’s faith impacts on my life every day.

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 4:48 PM

    Well first
    No
    I wasn’t indoctrinated here in this country or anywhere else for that matter.
    Im from a Non religious background.

    I think you may have me confused with someone else there, so ill let it slip how you are accusing me in the wrong of a couple of things..

    1: I never commented on anyone hanging anyone ever.

    2: I never use religion as part of my debate on abortion issue EVER

    I believe it’s not just a religious issue, its a Human Rights Issue.

    So you really must have me confused with someone else

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 4:56 PM

    Bridget – I do not have you confused with anyone else, on April 15 at 4.26pm you wrote:
    “If you have ever seen or held a newborn and imagine that happening to it, you would call for that man to be hanged..”
    We are all born atheist and therefore are all strictly speaking from a non religious background, but I do not believe you were not brought up in an Irish Catholic household, your name would suggest you are named after she who brings the spring and I do not mean the sun.
    At least be honest enough to admit to your old posts for it is too easy to call you out on it.

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:14 PM

    Could you screen shot that for me please, or the exact piece it was written on, i may have it saved myself, as that was not me.

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:19 PM

    Sorry
    Not thats its any of your business again but i Wasn’t brought up in an Irish catholic household.

    Why do you have such difficulty in believing what I say?!?

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:20 PM

    “Why do you have such difficulty in believing what I say?!?”

    Well speaking just for myself, it’s because much of what you say isn’t true.

    Boy who cried wold and all that.

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:25 PM

    Bridget – unlike you I check my facts before posting and it links to exactly the same Twitter account as you are linked to now.
    Look for yourself and come back to me.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/profile/78797/true-bridget-1114059/

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:32 PM

    Bridget, I’ve seen you support abortion in circumstances where the mother may come to harm and say nobody would deny an abortion in those circumstances. I told you they do and you called me all sorts of names.

    Later you denied ever showing your support for abortion in those circumstances and claimed abortion in the case of TFMR and FFA was wrong.

    So which Bridget do we have today? You can’t be surprised if people don’t believe you. You don’t even believe yourself.

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    Mute ohaimhirghin
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:44 PM

    So do you value your rights over that of the
    Unborn. Good job your parents were of a different opinion.
    It’s not about only your rights, but also that of the vulnerable and those with no voice. Sure there are cases where this is a last resort. Also nothing was stopping these women from going over to England and having a medical abortion. Just out of curiosity at what week do you consider it too late to abort. Wondering when a foetus qualifies as a human in your eyes

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:45 PM

    Bridget:

    “If you have ever seen or held a newborn and imagine that happening to it, you would call for that man to be hanged..”

    Bridget supports hanging people. What a vile thing to say.

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    Mute Fiona Ryan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:10 PM

    Nothing stops women from travelling? You can’t be that naive? Financial issues, health issues, emotional issues, asylum and immigration issues, being in an unsafe relationship, all factors that prevent women from travelling everyday! And I don’t think the issue of weeks and months should be a factor, if Ireland had free safe and legal abortions then the majority of terminations would take place before the 12th week, long before viability as is the case in England.

    Issues of viability and late term abortions are a product of the ban, where women are forced to delay their terminations, be that because they must save the money to travel over the course of weeks, can’t leave their children or any number of reasons!

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:21 PM

    Ok, thank you for the link Paul

    First,
    when you accuse me of Advocating hanging & when I said I didn’t comment on any hanging thread ever,
    I knew I didn’t because its usually always abortion issues I comment on..

    That comment was on an abortion thread, Gosnell, the absolute horrific, gruesome case of abortions

    Second

    By Saying “you” would call for him to be hanged is NOT the same as advocating anyone to be hung ever!

    So no, I don’t advocate hanging but in cases like that I can truly say I can understand how some people might support it..

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:26 PM

    Paul

    She said “you would call for that man to be hanged”… Thats not advocating hanging!!

    Everyone says things to emphasise a point.. Eg he should be hung, drawn and quartered or i’ll fecking kill him.. It doesnt mean you approve of murder or violence

    Bridget is one of the most kind hearted and courteous posters on the Journal. Dont twist her words to try and make her look bad. She hasnt a bad bone in her body..

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:42 PM

    Thank you Sinead.
    I also tried to thank you on a previous post where i was wrongly accused but it wouldn’t let me comment for some reason.

    Something really must have struck a cord on that thread, for that particular comment to be remember..

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:43 PM

    Bridget ducks and dives and denies again

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    Mute ohaimhirghin
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:47 PM

    Answered like a politician Fiona. Nice way of evading my question. It’s valid question and should be answered, if not to me then at least to yourself.
    My point being when does a child have rights, why is it in your eyes that it only has them once born. A bit like out of site out of mind.
    Don’t buy your reasons for not being able to jump on a plane. The reasons given above could also qualify if it was done locally.
    The problem is you like most people on either side of the argument treat it like a black or white situation, when it is obviously not. Sure there are cases when abortions are the better decision.
    But don’t write back and say in all cases abortions are ok, regardless of the situation. Incase your wondering I am not some religious nut, I am actually atheist with generally liberal views. One thing is for sure Fiona, this argument is going to continue for some time to come.

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 7:03 PM

    Bridget.

    No worries..

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    Mute Paul Fahey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 7:28 PM

    Bridget – so you did write it? And it was a direct quote, no omissions or additions? You can call it what you like, but it is advocating to me, which is not very ProLife and not very Christian.

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 7:40 PM

    Agreed Paul. She changes her mind every 5 seconds anyway

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 8:50 PM

    It’s not advocating, not in the least.
    Just because you think it is, still doesn’t make it so..

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:00 PM

    Denial again. What a sorry state of affairs if you say things to get a rise and find yourself later denying them. No backbone to behind your own remarks nor apologise for them

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:55 PM

    Ailbhe
    You seem to be the only person on here out to get a rise out if people..

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 25th 2014, 8:48 AM

    No Bridget, I’m just here to call you out on your lies.

    I’m an honest person that will either stand by what I say or apologise if what I said caused offense or was misconstrued.

    You however say things and later deny them. You and Sinéad can’t stand by what you say, despite the obvious fact that you said it. It’s shallow and pathetic.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Oct 25th 2014, 8:20 PM

    Ohaimhirhgin

    My mother is pro choice. She *chose* to have me. What’s your point?

    Many mothers are pro choice. Did you see people calling those on the pro choice side “pro abortion” and mistakenly assume that this meant we all thought all pregnancies should be aborted? Because that would just be silly.. There’s a reason the word choice is involved.

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    Mute Mary Lyons
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    Oct 23rd 2014, 11:53 PM

    It is such a shocking indictment of our country that in this day and age our young women have to resort to the internet for help.

    This at a time when they would be feeling at their most vulnerable and should be able to get treated in their own country and in out own hospitals.

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:31 AM

    At what cost to the taxpayer?

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:43 AM

    As a tax payer I would be happy to pay for that thelonehurler.

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    Mute TheLoneHurler
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:39 AM

    Well the kind folk at women on web are only looking for €90… so off you go.

    I think it would be ideal to have a referendum tomorrow for abortion on demand. To vote you must supply your PPS number. A yes vote will see your tax increase or social welfare cut on a pro-rata basis to cover all these lifestyle abortions that we currently ban in Ireland.

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    Mute Fraj Llecrup
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:22 AM

    @mary lyons

    “It is such a shocking indictment of our country that in this day and age our young women have to resort to the internet for help.”

    Yes, and It is an even worse indictment of our country that in this day and age that the best some so-called adults can offer our young women with a crisis pregnancy is the medieval solution of killing their babies.
    .

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    Mute Drew
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:22 AM

    Leave him…. hes been reading the american anti-choice leaflets they’ve been pushing through the door… If he wants to force his religious believes on others so be it but the idea it’s for the benefit of the tax payer or any rational reason other than ‘URRRGH… I am MAN, Women Do what I say’ is a delusion of the American evangelical Christian lobby.

    I’d gladly agree to such deal. Btw your getting stuck with the child benefit cost which alone is 4X the cost of an abortion proceedure €2K, not to mention the cost to the tax payer of giving birth in a public hospital €3-5K…

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    Mute John Everyman
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    Oct 24th 2014, 7:18 AM

    ” medieval solution of killing their babies.”

    If you know anyone killing children, report them to the gardai. I’m not sure how that issue relates to this story though…

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 8:07 AM

    Yes fraj madevil is right a country that denies abortion is medevil

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    Mute AN other
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:01 AM

    I thought the real issue here was that they are buying these pills online no?

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    Mute thetruth
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:34 AM

    Hard to report them to the gardai when you’re living in the states

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    Mute Florence Nightingale
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:35 AM

    @TheLoneHurler

    Medical costs are shared across the board. There are people in hospital who smoke, drink, drive recklessly, cross the road without looking, come down with measles because they weren’t vaccinated… the list is endless. Many of these people have conditions that are self-inflicted. They are being treated using taxpayers’ money.

    Are you going to start campaigning to have treatment withdrawn from them because they got lung cancer from smoking or liver cancer from drinking or lost their legs in a car accident because they were speeding?

    My guess? No.

    This is NOT a money issue. And even if it was, it would be a TINY droplet in the vast ocean of money that’s pumped into the HSE. This is a humanitarian issue. Women are humans. Abortion is part of the medical spectrum and sometimes it’s a necessary procedure for a woman to have.

    I know you have a MASSIVE bee in your bonnet about this issue and I know from your comments on here previously about your history and why you’re so against abortion. That’s fine. You’re allowed to be. But don’t attempt to mask your own personal feelings about the issue by talking about taxpayers’ money.

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    Mute Florence Nightingale
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:53 AM

    @Fraj

    “It is an even worse indictment of our country that in this day and age that the best some so-called adults can offer our young women with a crisis pregnancy is the medieval solution of killing their babies.”

    Women of all ages, from their teens up to their 40s, choose abortion. Not all women with an unwanted pregnancy are vulnerable. Not all women with an unwanted pregnancy are at crisis levels. Women know their own minds.

    The idea that women can be coerced into having an abortion when she doesn’t want one is pervasive but is hardly the norm. Are there some women who are talked into having an abortion by a persistent partner or family member? I’m sure there are. But most women make up their own minds.

    This article deals with the fact that a woman so desperate to not be pregnant orders pills off a website, even when she knows it’s illegal. What we need to focus more on is why a woman would risk jail because she doesn’t want to be pregnant.

    We can keep saying abortion is wrong. But abortion keeps happening. Even when it’s illegal. This is what Ireland, as a society, needs to focus on.

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    Mute Fraj Llecrup
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:30 PM

    @florence nightingale

    “We can keep saying abortion is wrong. But abortion keeps happening. Even when it’s illegal. This is what Ireland, as a society, needs to focus on.”

    We can keep saying child abuse / rape / murder are wrong. But child abuse / rape / murder keep happening.

    Should we therefore legalise them?

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    Mute Florence Nightingale
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    Oct 24th 2014, 7:22 PM

    @Fraj

    I’m not going to get into a debate about the difference between abortion and child abuse/rape/murder. And this refusal to deal with the reality of abortion is getting quite tiresome. It happens. Women find themselves in untenable situations and they make the choice. The law is on their side. The law is not on the side of child abusers, rapists and murderers.

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 8:46 PM

    Well said fraj

    And there we have it. Abortion on demand for Any reason..

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    Mute Christina Ryan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 4:00 AM

    Why are people in Ireland so against women simply having the right to choose,the right to medical treatment and advice to determine the best outcome for her personal circumstances in a safe envoirment ???!STOP treating women like second class citizens.

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    Mute Galwaybay
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    Oct 24th 2014, 8:01 AM

    Christina. I assume you don’t think it’s ok to murder a child when they’re outside the womb. So how come you think it’s ok to murder a child when it’s inside the womb.

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    Mute Ger
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:01 AM

    The very definition of a loaded question. Equating abortion to murder is your opinion and right to do. Yet you ask the question as though it’s fact.

    Murder is the intentionally killing of a person. Foetuses are NOT people. That is beyond dispute, because even if in Ireland they have legal protection, they lack the most basic thing needed to be considered a person: an identity. No more than the sperm and egg before fertilisation, they are not legally persons, even in Ireland.

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    Mute See My Vest
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:09 AM

    The issue though is that at 39 weeks, the unborn is still considered a foetus. So where do we stand at an abortion at 39 weeks because its still technically a foetus and going on your comment that makes it ok.

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    Mute Killian Foley-Walsh
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:12 AM

    That’s pseudo legal nonsense. Nowhere in Irish law will you find a definition of what a person is or isn’t. What you will find is a Constitution that recognises everybody’s right to live without a threat to them, be they born or unborn, and where unborn has an indefinite starting point. Seems like a pretty clear endorsement to me.

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    Mute Mary Dundee
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:13 AM

    Ger, your statement is harsh. A foetus is the start of human life. if you were aborted as a foetus then you would not be here.
    Abortion first needs to be defined….a foetus at 8 weeks is different to that of 20 weeks.
    For all pro abortionists when do you believe a foetus can’t feel pain? do you believe an abortion is ok at 20 weeks?

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    Mute Galwaybay
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:45 AM

    Ger. So how do you define identy. Are you tell me a new born baby who birth hasn’t being registered with the births death and marriage office isn’t a person and by your logic then can be murder. Cop yourself on.

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    Mute Grace Greene
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:05 AM

    Why then, if you assault a pregnant woman and she miscarries as a result, are you not charged with murder? Or even manslaughter? I’ll tell you why, because Irish law does not consider a foetus to be a person.

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:21 AM

    “Foetus is not people”

    Seriously

    It is a living growing human,

    Using terminology to describe the different stages of development does not take away from the fact it’s still a human with the same right to life as you & I

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    Mute Florence Nightingale
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:29 AM

    @Killian

    “What you will find is a Constitution that recognises everybody’s right to live without a threat to them, be they born or unborn, and where unborn has an indefinite starting point.”

    And yet the state allows the free travel of women to the UK to have abortions. No one is allowed to prevent her from leaving. No one is allowed to deny her access to the information she needs to make an informed and personal choice. If you attempted to block her travel to the UK, you would be arrested by the police, not the woman. She is LEGALLY entitled to travel to the UK.

    So the government IS in support of women having abortions, just not in this country. A hypocrisy I find incredibly hard to swallow.

    Allow women to make up their own minds. We’ve been doing it for a long time. We know how to make decisions. Trust us.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:20 AM

    “You can also travel freely to take drugs in Amsterdam. Or travel to Syria to join ISIS, It doesn’t mean the government supports it.” Actually, many governments are taking steps to prevent the second one. These would be comparable situations the minute the Irish people vote in a referendum to ensure that there is constitutional protection of travelling to Amsterdam to do drugs, similar to the Thirteenth Amendment.

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    Mute Joyce Galgey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:38 AM

    A zygote is no more a person than an acorn is a tree.

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    Mute Florence Nightingale
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:48 AM

    @Pontius

    Mere semantics. In 1992, the people voted in favour of the right to travel and the right to information in a referendum. It is a legal fact. It’s in the constitution. The government supports it. Because they are bound by the will of the people.

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:52 PM

    Joyce

    “From little acorns mighty oaks do grow”

    If you dont have the ability to see the zygotes potential only its inconvenience, then its very sad.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:55 PM

    “If you dont have the ability to see the zygotes potential only its inconvenience, then its very sad.” Yes, it’s almost as if women who have abortions feel that they’re unable to deal with pregnancy and childrearing. But forcing them to parent, that will definitely solve the problem!

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:23 PM

    Nick

    I dont think any parent was ever “forced” to love their children

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    Mute Kristine Wahl
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:30 PM

    @ See My Vest
    This s where acknowledging that women are sane and sensible human beings come in. How many women do you know that would remain pregnant for 39 weeks before they decide they don’t want to become a parent or would not want everything possible done to save the foetus as well as herself should a medical crisis occur?

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:35 PM

    Indeed, Sinead – plenty of parents go through life never loving their children. To say otherwise ignores the massive amount of child abuse which occurs. Perhaps if you had been abused as a child, you’d be a bit more reluctant to force a parent to give birth.

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:41 PM

    Nick

    Oh great.. So abortion is the solution child abuse now is it?

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:57 PM

    I think ending the myths that you peddle (all parents love their children! Everyone wants to be a parent! No parent ever feels angry and resentful because they had children!) is a pretty important factor, yep.

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 2:31 PM

    Nick

    I have never met a woman who didnt love her children with all her heart. There is no greater love in the world than a mothers love.

    Parenthood isnt easy. Nothing in life worth doing is easy. There are stresses. Of course there are.

    But to suggest that mothers dont love their children just says exactly what you think of motherhood and women.

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    Mute Kristine Wahl
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    Oct 24th 2014, 2:43 PM

    Sinead, even if a parent loves his/her child, does not mean s(he) capable of showing that love. Just because you have not met them, does not mean there are not men and women out there who regret becoming parents, and not just when there are stresses. And, yes, I have met them, read their blogs etc

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:28 PM

    “I have never met a woman who didnt love her children with all her heart. There is no greater love in the world than a mothers love. ” That remark is naive and incredibly insensitive to every child who was beaten by their mother or whose mother looked the other way when they were raped or sexually abused. People like you are the reason that abuse gets ignored and overlooked, because you can’t fathom that every mother isn’t loving.

    Forgive me for not believing you have the best understanding of reality.

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:37 PM

    Sinéad never met a woman that didn’t love her children- so it MUST be true in all situations.

    Sinéad had an abortion and regretted it – so the same MUST be true of all women.

    Hey Sinéad, remember the other day when you told people on a forum that I accused you of making up your abortion story. That wasn’t true, as you know. You can apologise if you wish, as I actually defended you when another poster made those accusations. You’re also welcome.

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:47 PM

    Nick..

    Really? I said that all mothers love their children. I didnt say that all mothers were loving. We all know thats not the case. The fact is that some women are damaged and need help. Not to be pointed in the direction of the nearest abortion clinic.

    A friend of mine was beaten by her mother many times during her childhood. She was an alcoholic. She gave up alcohol when my friend was in her teens and they didnt speak for a long time. But after counselling things are good now. Not perfect but my friend is happy and thats good. Are u telling me that mother doesnt love her daughter?

    “People like me are the reason abuse gets ignored or overlooked”

    What a vile thing to say.

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    Mute Aaron O Connor
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:49 PM

    What about that woman that killed her 2 year old only last week. Bet she really loved the poor young lad.

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 5:53 PM

    Sinéad, no apology for your unfounded accusations?

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:07 PM

    Aaron.. I wont comment on any particular case. But i think any woman that murders her child is full of hate and not love. How anyone could do that, i dont know. Its beyond sick.

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 6:17 PM

    That’s a no then. It takes an honest person to apologise for false accusations. Hardly surprising.

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    Mute ohaimhirghin
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:40 PM

    Can you tell me Ger the exact time that a foetus becomes a human. I would be interested to know.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Oct 25th 2014, 8:31 PM

    I would imagine as soon as their existence is not contingent upon another person’s body to exist..

    I mean, if a woman miscarries prior to 24 weeks there are no records kept save her medical ones. After 24 weeks, she is issued a birth and death cert for the baby. This is because at that stage, delivery could possibly result in a healthy baby.

    At say, 16 weeks, if the woman goes into labour and delivers then that foetus cannot survive, even with all the medical intervention in the world, it hasn’t finished developing to a point where it is capable of being separate.

    That’s what I would consider the cut off point, and if they develop a way to transplant unwanted pregnancies into pro life women’s wombs to stop the need for abortion I say bring it on.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Oct 23rd 2014, 11:57 PM

    Very sad that the women of Ireland have to resort to this because of those who put their own beliefs in front of Irish citizens welfare. There was some prolife spokesperson on primetime tonight disgusting.

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    Mute Dwayne Woods
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:19 AM

    What a pathetic bunch of misinformed and under educated bunch of people you lot are, the way I see it is if you are not Pro-Choice you are a misogynist and representing an very dark and dying part of Irish history. The fact that we even have to vote on this is disgusting and again a national embarrassment due to backwards politics that’s riddled with religion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion I just wonder why pro life people have to shove it down your throats

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:25 AM

    Wow wow wow
    What a comment
    Lucky not everyone thinks like you

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    Mute Dwayne Woods
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:53 AM

    The sad part is not everyone thinks like me. The Truth hurts but I guess that’s your issue not mine.

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:57 AM

    Bridget remove your head from your arse the vast majority of people r like that

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    Mute Dwayne Woods
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:26 AM

    There is no “case” common sense prevails

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    Mute Bridget
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:45 AM

    Richard I dont know about you but I physically wouldn’t be able to put my head up my a**

    Again thankfully not everyone thinks like yours!

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    Mute Dwayne Woods
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:56 AM

    Let us know if you need some help there Brigid

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 2:19 PM

    Thankfully the majority do Bridget

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:19 PM

    Brilliant Deane

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:19 PM

    Brilliant Deaneomi

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:19 PM

    Meant to be Dwayne

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    Mute Fraj Llecrup
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:34 PM

    @Dwayne Woods

    What have you to say to someone who is completely pro-life, anti-abortion and atheist?

    http://www.prolifehumanists.org/secular-case-against-abortion/

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:35 PM

    Third time’s the charm, Richard!

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    Mute Chris Judge
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:38 PM

    Also, to the topic at hand.

    Of course you can be anti-choice while not being religious. Whatever you want to believe or not is your choice.

    But the fact is, the reason Ireland is so backwards when it comes to reproductive health is the influence the church had. Bans on contraception, abortion etc. were all put in place because of the power the catholic church had.

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    Mute Aaron O Connor
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    Oct 24th 2014, 4:37 PM

    ” you can be anti-choice.. is your choice. ”

    i lol’d at that Chris man.

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    Mute Eimear Post Ginger
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    Oct 25th 2014, 12:40 AM

    Prolifers on comment threads, reinforce the need for abortion to be legal. Lol. Don’t like abortion don’t have one. Simples!

    Sorry to be crass, but every month a potential life is lost in my toilet. lol! Every weekend a potential life is lost down some lads johnny. I mean if people are going to decided when a human is a human, maybe they should consider how far that concept goes……. the other direction. Might start wailing and having a mass in my bathroom every month.

    Then maybe you will see how ridiculous you are being considering a zygote a human.

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    Mute thetruth
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    Oct 23rd 2014, 11:32 PM

    Expect paddy scully. Finbarr/linda zoe daly and marion to be along sonn

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    Mute Dungeon Master
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    Oct 23rd 2014, 11:40 PM

    Normally you’d be right, but the precogs are recharging in the basement in Merrion Square http://thefilmexperience.net/storage/2000s/minority-precogs.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1339692794687

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 8:06 AM

    The truth what about stephen mcgelliot don’t leave him out

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    Mute thetruth
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:32 AM

    Jaysis Richard, how did i forget Stephen

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:32 PM

    We all try!!

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    Mute Carol De Buitleir
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:01 AM

    Tayto – Tom, Dick and Harry can’t get pregnant, they’re men although admittedly Dick is usually involved. My comment is no more ridiculous than yours

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    Mute Pam El A
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:53 AM

    Ah I remember that time when my doctor supervised every dose of antibiotic I took for fear I might put it up my nose or in my ear…. WTF was dr coulter smith taking about the wrong route? Does he think women are so stupid when it comes to our reproductive health that we can’t follow basic dosing instructions?

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    Mute Christopher Lawless
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:08 PM

    Killian does this zygote have a right to implant itself in someone’s womb? Would you consider it abortion to prevent it doing so?

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    Mute Kool Tiger
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:48 AM

    When are those religious freaks who are still living in the stone age going to stop telling everyone else how to live their lives. If a woman doesn’t want to go through with a pregnancy then that is nobody else’s business, women should be able to go a clinic and get this procedure and any pther they choose without having religious nutters interfering.
    Ireland needs to drag itself into the 21st century so women are no longer treated as second class citizens

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    Mute Kool Tiger
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    Oct 24th 2014, 1:46 PM

    How backward can a country be in 21st century Europe where women are prosecuted for the crime of having control of their own reproductive organs.
    Those people who believe abortion is wrong need never have one but please do not interfere with others who do not share such medieval views.

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    Mute richard fennessy
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:44 AM

    Babies. 20 weeks etc. it’s the morning after pill there is no baby

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 8:34 AM

    1861 Offences Against the Person Act

    Sections 58 & 59

    Attempts to procure Abortion.

    Administering drugs or using instruments to procure abortion.

    58. Every woman, being with child, who, with intent to procure her own miscarriage, shall unlawfully administer to herself any poison or other noxious thing, or shall unlawfully use any instrument or other means whatsoever with the like intent, and whosoever, with intent to procure the miscarriage of any woman, whether she be or be not with child, shall unlawfully administer to her or cause to be taken by her any poison or other noxious thing, or shall unlawfully use any instrument or other means whatsoever with the like intent, shall be guilty of felony, and being convicted thereof shall be liable . . . to be kept in penal servitude for life . . .

    Procuring drugs, &c. to cause abortion.

    59. Whosoever shall unlawfully supply or procure any poison or other noxious thing, or any instrument or thing whatsoever, knowing that the same is intended to be unlawfully used or employed with intent to procure the miscarriage of any woman, whether she be or be not with child, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall be liable . . . to be kept in penal servitude . . .

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    Mute Joanna
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:12 AM

    1861??? Christ, no wonder we’re so backwards.

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    Mute Fiona Ryan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:24 AM

    The new law isn’t much better, it criminalises women to up to 14 years imprisonment. What’s ironic is that the old law was not enforceable whereas the protection of life during pregnancy act criminalises both the woman who procures the abortion and also anyone who aids her in doing so up to and it’s wording is vague enough to include any physician who does not report her if she presents with complications.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 9:57 AM

    Why would you think that the 1861 Act is not still the law?

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    Mute Fiona Ryan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:06 AM

    I imagine the protection of life during pregnancy act supersedes it.

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    Mute Grace Greene
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:07 AM

    Probably because life in penal servitude meant life in the workhouse..

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:09 AM

    The 1861 Act was and still is enforceable. Its just that we as a society choose not to do so. We turn a blind eye to illegality of the highest form. Why are the Gardai not prosecuting persons who import the abortion pills under the 1861 Act?

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:10 AM

    No it doesn’t.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:13 AM

    The act is still the law. On conviction the convicted person would go to prison.

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    Mute Mary Lyons
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:20 AM

    Paul are you living in a cave?
    This is 2014 not the 1800′s

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    Mute Tomás Heneghan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:20 AM

    Probably because the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 repealed sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.

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    Mute Grace Greene
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:21 AM

    Penal servitude is defined as imprisonment with hard labour. There is no hard labour in our prison system anymore so the very clear sentence in the legislation cannot be imposed. A judge’s job is to uphold what is written in law, not change the sentence to the nearest possible alternative.

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    Mute Tomás Heneghan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 10:24 AM

    If you’re too lazy to even look at the provisions of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act or keep up to date with the laws in relation to abortion here, then you really have no place making comments about what can and can’t happen to a woman who procures an abortion in Ireland.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:03 AM

    Sorry Tomas, i didn’t realize that sections 58 and 59 had been repealed.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:05 AM

    Are you sure about that? I don’t know. Maybe someone with legal training commenting could sort that one out.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:12 AM

    Hi Tomas, there’s no need to be abusive.
    Even though Im not a lawyer, I am a citizen and I am entitled to speak.
    Also, the laws in relation to procuring an abortion do not only apply to women.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:23 AM

    You’re right, Paul. It speaks volumes that if a couple together decide that the best option is to buy pills from women on web, the woman would be committing an offence but not her partner who just emotionally supports her and make the decision with her.

    And you’ve pointed out the hypocrisy of the law quite well – very few people support prosecuting women who buy these pills, so any kind of penalties for women are unpopular and pointless.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:37 AM

    Offering emotional support is not illegal but If the woman’s partner procured the pills, he or she would be liable to prosecution. In fact anyone who procures the pills with the intention of procuring an abortion is open to prosecution.
    Why are these 60 cases not being prosecuted?

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    Mute Joyce Galgey
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:41 AM

    A law written by men to control women, hardly reflective of the views of society,.

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    Mute Tomás Heneghan
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    Oct 24th 2014, 11:58 AM

    Paul, as someone who has studied abortion law in Ireland in detail for the past 2 years and has written academic legal pieces on the topic of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act, I can assure you that sections 58 and 59 of the 1861 Act were most definitely repealed by section 5 of the 2013 Act. In fact it quite explicitly repeals the sections, there’s no grey area about that. As for being abusive, well that’s not at all accurate. I haven’t been abusive. If you want to argue the legal side of abortion in Ireland at least do the very basic research and know what the law actually is at the moment (and has been since January 2014). People who wish to deny a woman her right to bodily autonomy need to at least be able to back up their arguments and shouldn’t just scream “abuse” when someone points out their clear ignorance in relation to the topic they wish to discuss.

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 24th 2014, 12:53 PM

    “Why are these 60 cases not being prosecuted?” Because prosecutions would be completely condemned by 99% of Irish people and laws against abortion would be overturned in a week. Thus why not even Youth Defence supports these prosecutions.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:42 PM

    Hi Tomas,

    1. “Paul as someone who has studied abortion law in Ireland in detail for the past 2 years and has written academic legal pieces on the topic of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act, I can assure you that sections 58 and 59 of the 1861 Act were most definitely repealed by section 5 of the 2013 Act.”
    I already apologised to you for not knowing that sections 58 and 59 had been repealed and thanks again for pointing this out to me. We are not all legal scholars, but we are entitled to speak. Why did you feel it necessary to point this out again?

    2. In fact it quite explicitly repeals the sections, there’s no grey area about that.
    I don’t remember mentioning grey areas

    3. As for being abusive, well that’s not at all accurate. I haven’t been abusive.
    I would consider calling someone “lazy’ mildly abusive. Not exactly the end of the world stuff but not very friendly either.

    4. If you want to argue the legal side of abortion in Ireland at least do the very basic research and know what the law actually is at the moment (and has been since January 2014).
    Nobody argues with perfect knowledge. We learn as we go. Well I hope to anyway. You kindly informed of something I didn’t know today.

    5. People who wish to deny a woman her right to bodily autonomy need to at least be able to back up their arguments and shouldn’t just scream “abuse” when someone points out their clear ignorance in relation to the topic they wish to discuss.
    I don’t wish to deny a “woman her right to bodily autonomy”.
    I don’t think I screamed abuse.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:51 PM

    Our laws are written by democratically elected parliamentarians.

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    Mute Paul Mooney
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    Oct 24th 2014, 3:36 PM

    Hi Tomas,

    1. “Paul as someone who has studied abortion law in Ireland in detail for the past 2 years and has written academic legal pieces on the topic of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act, I can assure you that sections 58 and 59 of the 1861 Act were most definitely repealed by section 5 of the 2013 Act.”
    I already apologised to you for not knowing that sections 58 and 59 had been repealed and thanks again for pointing this out to me. We are not all legal scholars, but we are entitled to speak. Why did you feel it necessary to point this out again?

    2. In fact it quite explicitly repeals the sections, there’s no grey area about that.
    I don’t remember mentioning grey areas

    3. As for being abusive, well that’s not at all accurate. I haven’t been abusive.
    I would consider calling someone “lazy’ mildly abusive. Not exactly the end of the world stuff but not very friendly either.

    4. If you want to argue the legal side of abortion in Ireland at least do the very basic research and know what the law actually is at the moment (and has been since January 2014).
    Nobody argues with perfect knowledge. We learn as we go. Well I hope to anyway. You kindly informed of something I didn’t know today.

    5. People who wish to deny a woman her right to bodily autonomy need to at least be able to back up their arguments and shouldn’t just scream “abuse” when someone points out their clear ignorance in relation to the topic they wish to discuss.
    I don’t wish to deny a “woman her right to bodily autonomy”.
    I don’t think I screamed abuse.

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    Mute Knitalong.com
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    Dec 9th 2014, 8:10 PM

    Pro-Choice is taking the required steps to prevent an unwanted pregnancy e.g. Responsibility, ending an unwanted pregnancy is murder, ending an unwanted pregnancy from abuse or unjust causes is justice. If we can kill babies at will, how long before we start killing old people in nursing homes?

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