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FORMER TAOISEACH BERTIE AHERN has said the new government has to “reflect what the issues were with the people”.
Speaking to RTÉ’s The Week in Politics, the former Fianna Fáil leader predicted a new government would not be formed by the end of March.
He said work on creating a “stable and sustainable” coalition had not yet begun.
Ahern said if Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael form a coalition, it would need to involve the Greens and Social Democrats and “some sort of an agreement” with independents.
“If you don’t do that it won’t reflect change and it would also create a problem for Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, particularly Fianna Fáil, because when you’re putting a government together, you have to look to the future as well,” he said.
The Week in Politics / TwitterFormer taoiseach Bertie Ahern discusses possible government formations. #rtwip will be rebroadcast at 11.35pm on @RTEOne. #rtepolitics https://t.co/qhGW5t3eo6
— The Week in Politics (@rtetwip) February 16, 2020
Ahern added that if a Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael government does happen, something he said he “wouldn’t put too much money on yet”, it will have to “take into account what is the policy formulation”.
“If you look at Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael’s manifesto, it’s not too difficult to see how you can put that together, but you’re going to have to reflect what the issues were with the people,” Ahern said, adding that it brings it back to three main issues – housing, homelessness and health.
Ahern went on to say that the public will be looking for a “programme for government that gets four years, that reflects the politics of the issues that were around in this election”.
“And the reality is the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael manifestos didn’t reflect that.”
Ahern said he believes there are only three or four options for forming a government.
“Option one is that Fianna Fáil is the minority government with some kind of an arrangement with Fine Gael … that’s not going to work because when you look at the figures when you take Fine Gael out of it there’s only about two votes in it,” Ahern said.
He said the second option could be Fianna Fáil, Sinn Fein and “somebody else”, but he added that Fianna Fail “have ruled that out solidly”.
Finally, he added: “You’ve Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Greens. I think the Greens would be setting themselves up, that doesn’t sound like a good deal for them.
So, I think the more likely one is Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the Greens, the Social Democrats, with an arrangement with independents.
Ahern said this option “might sound cumbersome”, but added that “it would reflect the result” of the election.
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Says the man who bankrupted the country.
@Barney Metcalfe: I wonder has he opened up a bank account yet or does he still have a huge lump in his mattress, bless him.
@Frank Cauldhame:
Paddy the painter is looking after his cash for him.
@Barney Metcalfe:
Fair point Barney – let’s let SF finish what he started.
@Barney Metcalfe: Absolutely. And listen to him ‘ they have to form some sort of an agreement ‘ .. the whole idea of accountability of these TD to the country they have to come back .. out the window again . Not a mutter about mandate in eelven that was ignored. The agreement be that next min will lay bill before the dail req dail permission to accept terms of B Lenihans deal and DAIL take back control of fund the laon and work for us not give a MINISTER they have no control over a key to funds that is entrusted to DAIL accountable to us.
I attach the legislation that none of us wld have to entertain but for vote of FF and FG GIVING MINISTER that none of them can predict over cos none of them can pedict the outcome of a general election a power given to this individual to take 500 million euro out of the central fund to
Protect Financial System;
Correct Govt overspend cos DAIL gave all power to govt ;
National Projects.
I bet A Lawlor never Raised WHEN HE TALKED OF THIS AGREEMENT that it be that dail exercise mandate they got and in elecen. U know we let our eyes of the all as electorate . No it ws all talk about next GOVT.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/act/18/enacted/en/pdf
.
@Frank Cauldhame: I’m sure he just signs the back of those pension cheques and cashes them in Fagans
@Barney Metcalfe: how on gods earth does what he just said reflect the result of the election. Its like there’s a huge big elephant that they dragged into the room and tied up over in the corner.
@Barney Metcalfe:
Why is that dirtybird getting air time. Goal time he should get.
@Barney Metcalfe: What is really disturbing is the media still printing articles like he has some sort of knowledge about running a country correctly and for the people. And I tell you here and now they are laughing at us, what other country would still be putting someone with his record in the media……Christ almighty we are so thick we really are.
@Barney Metcalfe: what bookie sponsored this
@Brinster: Don’t forget either that Michael Martin was Berties apprentice, Bertie groomed him to fool the people just like Bertie did. Fancy a pint of Bass in the Goose pal?
@Peter Hughes: The joke’s on us if he’s still being paid to to be “consulted”.
@Justice Mickey: Does he still actually believe his opinion is important? He has some neck. In a country that treats its politicians like ordinary people, that lowlife gangster would be rotting in prison. An embarrassment to decent hard working people. Does he honestly think people have forgotten how he stood up in a tribunal and insulted ordinary, decent people’s intelligence, when he told a pack of bare faced lies. He’s never off RTE lately, which only goes to show how much they think of the ordinary, decent people who pay their wages. This country really is a joke.
@Brinster: C’mon bro, it’ll be deadly, I’ll even buy you a package of Meanies and introduce you to Paddy “The Plasterer”. The aulwans will be all over you as day luv Bertie.
@Justice Mickey: I thought it was ” Paddy the Plasterer?”
@Mary Ward: Did you use a random word generator?
The only change FF & FG are interested in, rattles in their pockets… Bertie Ahern is well educated on that score !
@CJ Stewart:
FF, FG and Greens got over 50% of the vote.
That’s double the mandate that SF got.
Then again SF have never been good with figures.
@Brinster: Sure is fella..and all the rest of the votes together account for apporx 75% of the mandate. So you ‘daft ‘ reasoning can be used against any of the political parties in singular …seems your not that great at figures yourself…have a day off ! ..Doughnuts For Sale !
@Brinster: they are two parties, while the other is one. Simple
@CJ Stewart: CJ Stewert u need to think of the fund as our money and what our TD have done . See legislation Min can take out 500 million that hwy sf and ff and fg not talking cos FF and FG have difft plans they do not wnat SF to get hand on that power as if TD ever shld have done that . voted on such a monstrosity of a power to a min he cannot never forecast but it nis DAIL AND TD responsible .
@Brinster: Nor have you. They still won the popular vote my blinkered friend. You are a bit like Bertie there. Each of the four options he mentioned there had to have FF in it. do you agree with him?
@Brinster: :’The phantom €2B:How everyone except Sinn Fein got the maths wrong.”!
@Mary Ward: that’s easy for you to say!
@Al Fresco: But what did she say Al…????
@CJ Stewart: I believe that Mary is a (badly designed) bot, written in BASIC, by a German, using Polish instructions, translated from Chinese, by a Mongolian for Java :)
@Tyrone Williams: ohhhh…from Cavan then so !
60% of the country elected centre right tds not socialist lefties
@john s: SF blitzed the first preference votes. At one stage they had something like 28 TDs elected while FF and FG were still on one each. Sure the leaders of FF and FG didn’t even win their own constituencies thanks to the surge from the leaf.
* left
@The Risen: Hilariously, “At one stage” counts for diddly. The final result showed us that the comment you replied to is correct.
@The Risen: but the elections aren’t based on just first preferences. People have the right to number their preferences and use them how they wish. If FF or FG benefited from this, then that was from the people giving them their vote, on the basis of how people are elected.
@john s: overwhelming majority of the irish population are centre left and centre right in politics and economics outlook who are not been properly represented in the discussions and are got between hard left socialists and economic right wing parties
@Sim0n: it also shows me that ff/fg are the same party and only have to agree who ll be Taoiseach. Either way if Martin/Leo lead this country it ll be embarrassing that their not even most popular in their own area. But up the 60 percent!
@Sim0n: It’s common knowledge that SF are a rerun away from massively increasing their seat count. Hence the two old enemy partys looking to form a coalition to stop that happening.
@Derek Trotter: Irish people can stop and change very easily which ever way the wind blows so I wouldn’t get carry way just yet.
@Bobby wilson: you lost me there?
@The Risen: In the meantime, the last election result stands and doesn’t get trumped by speculation. That said, a part of me would welcome a Sinn Féin majority just to dispell the notion that their manifesto is deliverable, and won’t wreck the economy. We haven’t even factored in how they’d pay for the North if they even realised unification. Fairy tales are best left for bedtime. That’s some factual common knowledge right there.
@The Risen: A lot of people still don’t know how to vote, they pick their no.1 and 2 and keep on numbering 3-4-5 …if there’s another election pick your no.1 and find out who they would give their surplus to, leave it at that. No.1 and No 2..
@john s: 3-4——9 counts is a sickening way to finally get elected. Vote 1 and maybe 2 . Leave the rest.
@Sim0n: My God you are boring. Sinn Feins manifesto has been fully costed and verified by the same Department of Finance that costs Fine Gael and Fianna Fails manifestos. Your persistent lie and spin is just that.
@Sim0n: What first preference shows is exactly that, who the peoples first preference is. And it certainly wasn’t and FF/FG government. What we are facing is a government of also ran candidates and a leader who couldn’t even drum up the support of his own constituents, nevermind the support of the electorate as a whole.
@Bobby wilson:the point is that i am trying to make is when the Irish people realise all these goodies the hard left promise them by the taxing the rich which won’t materialise and people in the middle will have too paid for it that’s when all fun begins
@Ian Breathnach: That’s BS. Dept of Finance won’t stand over SF’s manifesto.
‘However, the department clarified that it did not cost the totality of the Sinn Féin package but rather it costed individual items and there was stinging criticism of the party’s spending plans.’
@Bobby wilson: but that’s all subjective to your argument. I would say the others have failed the Irish people. The Dublin I grew up is very different to the one Leo grew up in. That’s not me having a go it’s just a reality. I personally feel FF/G have had their turn and now let’s see if SF can do it. SF have put their mandate out so let’s see if they can back it up but we won’t know on till we give it a go. FF/FG and the greens in power, its all been done before.
@The Risen: It’s also common knowledge that some Candidates Sinn Féin ran are complete boneheads. God only knows who’s waiting in the wings if there’s a rerun.
@Derek Trotter: I grew up between finglas Dublin and up against North Belfast interface and was FF people that help all the way through our lives and yet SF have been very good across the NORTH in helping people access housing and public services and first people on the ground when trouble kicks off on interfaces. But for me they are far too left if I want vote for hard left I will vote for the worker’s party or PBP or IRSP or some other splinter group republican party
@The Risen: and the one seat FF had at that point wasn’t the result of votes gained but the Freebie they got for the Ceann Comhairle!
@The Risen: doubt it a rerun of election means SF will mop up the other left leaning seats not ff not FG not the gen pool independents that we hear about that
@The Risen: That deadly surge from the leaf. The answer, my friend is blowing in the wind. Under our nasty PR system you don’t get extra seats by getting elected early in the count.
@Bobby wilson: This is not about left/right politics to me though admittedly I lean towards the left. I’m sick to death of ff/fg politicians defending themselves on the TV and what they have done for us. Ive seen the hospital beds crisis first hand, the housing crisis etc. There is a working poor in this country. People working good jobs but can’t buy a house. Let the shinners have a crack at it.. They might just fix it
@Ian Breathnach: that’s another SF fairy tale.
@Derek Trotter: so you think SF and all other hard LEFT parties are the answer, The free state has very good socialist welfare system that’s if you’re unemployed but if you are on a low or middle income it is not good at all. people on low income can’t access free health care while up North and Britain entire population can access free from the cradle to the grave one thing believe in 100% is everybody in society should be able to access first class health for free regardless of there income more than any other public service and wouldn’t have a problem paying what tax for it
@Dave Lynch: I tried to find a link to that particular Dept of Finance statement of “stinging criticism of the party’s spending plans” but it doesn’t exist according to Google!
€11B is the projected fiscal space but SF also includes €4B from NAMA for additional investment in housing and €3.8B in 15 new taxation measures,€22B is the cumulative figure!
Irish Fiscal Advisory Council recommended changes re taxing intangible assets on-shored here from 2015-2017(Paschal Donohue brought in similar measures for on-shored intangible assets here from January 2018)which Government didn’t do.SF was willing to do this.. Stephen Kinsella who also highlighted this, said SFs proposal to include this in manifesto was an excellent idea & that would fund the Exchequer handsomely and help offset the inevitable loss of revenue due to new OECD rules on digital taxes!
By the way SF was also costed by DPER.The options according to the rules was getting a manifesto costed by Dept of Finance or DPER,SF got their manifesto costed by BOTH Department of Finance and DPER!
@Bobby wilson: completely agree with ya on health. I’ve been fortunate enough in life so far to have not required the social welfare. Ff/fg have f.. Ked up our health system down here. I’ve mates who have decent jobs earning a very livable wage but their rents are so high they ll never get to buy one. It’s our banks who we bailed out have ridiculous demands to get a mortgage. We kinda of agree with each other?
@The Risen: Not very good at Maths. SF voters account for about A Quarter of those that voted altogether.
Says the man with no bank account
“Stick a couple of new mudflaps on the gravy bus there….be grand”
@The Risen:
SF – “We got 24% of the vote – we have a mandate to be in Government”
Also SF – “FF and FG got 43% of the vote – how dare they think they have a mandate to be in Government”
Spot the issue?
I realize that this is a difficult one for SF supporters but I’m sure ye can figure it out…..
@The Risen:
SF – “FF and FG aren’t fit to form a government.”
Also SF – “We demand FF or FG form a government with us”.
Spot the hypocrisy?
Spot the toxicity?
@Brinster: LOL! Having to combine your vote with the old enemy to make it look like ye didn’t lose the election…
Sad
@Brinster: arithmetic isn’t their strongest point unfortunately….
@Paul Shepherd: ah sure just welcome back in the two parties who we KNOW can’t run the country economically or socially. Be grand.
This is not about left and right it is about FFG repeatedly messing up and a lot of people want to try something different.
Even SF can’t do worse.
@The Risen: He’s right Brainster or splinter whatever you call yourself. It must gall you to have to link up with FF and they ye. But get used of it ye have to suck it up for next four years, while the real opposition let ye have it from the benches across the way.
Be sure and Keep Those Seats warm now like the good gombeens ye are!
@Brinster: Didn’t FF and FG run separate campaigns criticizing each others policies and records in Government ,saying the other would be a disaster in Government!?
As Exit poll taken after people voted clearly showed,the most important reasons why people voted the way re was health, homelessness/housing @58% and when asked 77% of SF voters and 68% of FF voters said they had not benefited from the improvement in economy so they wanted change.
This is after nearly 4 years of FG/FF confidence and supply alliance where FF had considerable influence in certain policy issues as they boasted but yet criticized FG policy failures!!Now they’re supposed to going into Government together to do what they should have done over nearly 4 years with radical policies they couldn’t produce during that time!
Why oh why is this failure being inflicted on us. The news in Ireland seems to be framed by a relatively small number of producers and editors who set the narrative for all of us. It’d be nice if they showed some more worth.
@Emmet Major: Emmet they have been doing this for years. Their problem is people don’t believe their shit anymore. I personally have not bought a newspaper for the last 12 years. The owners and editors of these newspapers are all in on the act. If some people believe their crap thats their problem but I kopped on to them a long time ago.
@Emmet Major: Someone should do an expose on said producers and editors. Give us some faces to them. There are a few good ones, granted, but by and large the studios are infested with rats.
Would this bollacks just go away and before he goes he might explain how the the 45,000 dollers ended up on his accounts in the nineties.
This from a man .. A proven liar… Taoiseacht of a government that facilitated the gangsterism of the banks and developers. The media can at will disparage the past of certain politicians, Yet Ahern is rolled onto centre stage. The mafia must be in awe of him.
Anyone see the article in the sindo about FF TF Niall Collins handing in a letter on FF headed paper, To a judge urging them to let a convicted drug dealer off charges brought against him.
And Collins is the spokesman on Justice.
How precious it is that this criminal is giving us advice about government, still.
and straight from the mouth of a corrupt gangster
How convenient. Change needs O’Broin in Housing.
Last time we listened to the Bert it cost us 200 billion Euro and a lost generation.
His sage advice is much needed at this time. NOT.
I’m looking for a shoe box to put my winnings in.
P P P P P P P P P1ss off Bertie…
@Jeremy Finn: Yeah … his name is spelt “Thieving Bistard”
There will be no change if FFG are in power with smaller parties like SD and the greens, FFG will do anything to keep SF out, the two horse race going forward has changed, it’s now a 3 horse race at the next GE, FFG have never delivered change even when the people more or less told them, and going forward they will still do the same old s h I t wrapped up with a different wrapper, if you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always had, so no change is coming
Appearance of change not enough. There needs to be change.
@KJmadra.: So the so called bitter enemies FF and fg are now joining just to keep sf out. All you people who continued to vote for these parties down through the years are happy with this now?
Yous are unbelievable and a disgrace.
So basically just leaving out the most popular party that people elected…
This article looks like it was written back in the 80s when you couldn’t talk about Sinn Fein – jesus the Journal WTF……a week after an overwhelming whopper of a surge in support for Sinn Fein and you manage to write an article with an ex FF taoiseach and elimate the words Sinn Fein from appearing anywhere – jesus get with the programme – even you you dislike SF or don’t want them in power – HOW do you manage to write an entire article and not even mention the name takes a special skill in editing. So if we get another 5 years of FFG what makes them think that reflects what people wanted ??? What rabits are they going to try pull out of the hat to get a different outcome…….Lets try a FFG coalition – definition of insanity anyone ?
Are we that backward that we actually listen to this untrustworthy clown.
When the writing was on the wall he handed the poison chalice to Brian Cowen ( wishing him a speedy recovery) when the odds were stacked against him
He was,is and always be the underhanded sleveen behind ff.
He didn’t earn the nickname “deep pockets ahern” for nothing.
I am no fan of ffgL but the all consuming cabal will devour any minority party and spit them out when it suits them..
Ahh, come on The Journal, you can’t even spell the name right in the headline, sloppy
He has some hard neck
FF and FG are not forming a coalition. They are merging into a single party. Media constantly talking about their combined vote and this is not being challenged by either party. Just waiting for the official announcement.
@Anne Marie Devlin: They should merge and change their name to ‘Profit Before People’. Bit of honesty would be a nice change of pace.
@The Risen: I was thinking more of Fail the Gaels
Says a man who robbed the country blind
The people don’t want FF AND FG in government
@Marianne: They certainly don’t want the Shinners in government either,they got a big protest vote not because people think they would do any better. I certainly wouldn’t want O’Snodaigh ,Dessie Ellis or Cullinane making decisions at the highest level especially with their track record.
Bertie also said that he’d personally have no problem with FF talking to SF.
He also said border poll is inevitable as in GFA and that considerable planning and preparations needed to take place over years so didn’t dismiss SFs proposals.
Interesting that he doesn’t consider FF/FG manifestos as real change and said they’d have to listen to the people and the three “he’s” they saw as most important reasons why they voted and whatever FF/FG will have to have radical solutions to these issues.I personally don’t see FF/FG policies radically changing!
The Greens and SDs would take the brunt of voters anger if real change in those areas not delivered.
@Nuala Mc Namara: Forgot to mention the latest Business Post/Red C poll:26% want a grand coalition with FF/FG/smaller parties
26% want a SF -led -left- wing Government
19% want coalition of FF,SF smaller parties
15% want another General Election
So 45% want SF in Government and 45% want FF in Government!!!!
Mmmm,I wonder now how to keep both parties ‘s voters happy?!
@Nuala Mc Namara: By the way, that Poll took place between Wednesday and Friday.
The country must be very much in a bad way to be looking for advise from Bertie who very much ruined our Country.
Get lost Bertie. You’re just history.
Why is that dirtybird getting air time. Goal time he should get.
F… OFF
I think when all the shouting and blustering by the parties is over and they settle down to talk business it’s going to be FF + SF + Greens + SD. To my mind this is the best Government we can hope or wish for that will represent the majority of people.
@Brian Renaghan: I agree but wonder how the breaking of the election promise not to go into government with SF will play out in a future election – it is a catch 22 they have created where they cannot do the right thing without breaking an election commitment that, in my opinion should not have been made as it pre-empted to election result and has backed them into a corner…. the other option of FF and SF and FG would see both FF and FG breaking that promise so the effects would be mitigated, but then SF said they did really wanted a government without FF or FG – so everyone would be affected – but I cannot see the politicians reaching such a compromise.
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: Very true but the people have spoken, not how they would have expected but must be respected. I think the country is heading into and is in a difficult period. Parties must be compromising and do what is best for our country. If you get a good mix of centre left and green then nobody can duck for cover or blame the other. Best for country as a whole. Must play the hand of cards your dealt
Bertie Who??
He has some Cheek
Blanking one of the top political parties should not be an option. Obviously the country is split between capitalism and socialism and this should be reflected in the choice of who is in power. It does not seem very democratic to exclude the left. Our system is broken and goes to show we need reform or we will just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and the only people who benefit are the super rich
What are FF FG not capable of change by themselves?
Says the credible Advisor
A very toxic attitude from Bertie to volunteer the Greens and Social Democrats as fall guys to help shield FF from a future backlash.
Minds should be concentrated on creating a government which the public will appreciate, not anticipating an unpopular tenure and making arrangements to protect the party at all costs.
So SF did better than expected.
FG and FF did worse than expected.
SF can not put a government in place.
For many reasons
So FG and FF are trying.
Mary L says it’s wrong that no one wants to talk with them.
As the SF supporters would say
It’s Democracy
@Sean Carroll: groundbreaking. You’re def a news reporter.
It will still be same ole same ole or maybe even worse with the Greens havibg a say now
Cute Bertie. Ff /fg cartel needs soc dems and greens so the charade of “change” can be sold to the electorate, and more importantly to FF grassroots.
@Leonard O’mahony: and so Greens&SDs can face Labour’s fate at following GE,taking heat off FF&FG
Yeah because the FF & Green coalition went so well as did the FG s as did labour. I voted to break the two party wheel and I will do it again.
If we want change in governmental policies, then (a) the homeless need to be given homes and those with drug-alcohol problems treated; (b) the number of hospital beds need to be increased by 25% in a short while, and (c) the state needs to be vigorously involved in the construction of social housing – house building cannot be left to the private sector. Real change in the 3 Hs means that FF & FG really go beyond their paltry manifestos.
The reality is of this situation, if the greens (or for that matter SD) but especially the greens went into a coalition with FFG it would cost them seats in the next election, however, if something goes “t!ts up” in the next few years in said coalition, be it economic or social issues.. the greens would not have the capacity run for election in this country again. A partnering up with FFG makes it all to easy for the average person to dismiss green minded and eco friendly policies. It may be the case that the Green Party sh!t and eat from the same plate.
@thenewguy: exactly it’s very risky for the greens they should back another general election they will do well because any party that goes in with ff or FG gets destroyed.
I don’t understand why they cart Bertie out to speak on these topics, he is one of our most disgraced politicians. Corruption allegations aside, he left us with 200 Billion in debt and a mental illness epidemic. When media like RTE ask his opinion or give him airtime, they are basically endorsing what he has done, and normalizing it. This is unacceptable…
Why would you ask him anything, he is testing the waters for a run for the job in the park. He believes it is his right.
I’m not a fan of SF and think their policies would be disastrous in the long term but it would be a huge mistake for FF and FG to enter a coalition without SF. This would play right into SF’s hands. It would put them in the position of being the only opposition party and would allow them to continue shouting from the sidelines without having to take any responsibility for their policies/promises.
@Damon16: Quite frankly i do not care who is in govt but i cerainly doo not want nor should i have to be preseted with legislation giving a minister power to take monies form the central funds and impose more austerity n us for lack of fund as a result rather then exercise and the mandate they were elected on in 11 and sned the deal back to brussells. Do u no how much money is being spent form that fund , in INTEREST on the deal made by Lenihan but no legislation charging the public fund and TD know that a min canot do it without leg but they S F allowed it for since 11 never challenged min authority to clear the fund and no money in it for helath ed etc Did u ever take out the national account cos that is money that cld have been spent on hosuing as DAIL worked on terms of that deal on our behald TD
Back in your box Ahern..
Don’t you touch those parties. That’s how FG/FG stay in power, draw in smaller parties into a coalition so that when the bottom falls out they don’t take the Blame the smaller party does and suffers for it
Bad name Bertie Ahern cause economy crash to recession 2008 . His comment rubbish
Why is this inept and corrupt former politician expounding on governance issues. His contribution to our state was to bankrupt it.He also had memory loss when accounting for his finances. Give us a break!
SF had 27 seats on first count, FF had only 1, FG had only 2. The people voted overwhelmingly for a SF govt.
Do not allow FFG to bully their way into govt.
@Kath Noonan: that was due to the other parties having more that one candidate in most areas. More than one candidate splits the first choice. If we get another election SF will run more candidates this will result in splitting the first preferences, but it will mean more seats.
I’m a ff supporter but I despise this man, he singlehandedly destroyed the grass roots of the party f off bertie
Why is Bertie Ahern being asked for his opinion? I thought we had got rid of him..
Please stop asking this muppet for his opinion.
He almost destroyed the country and protected his golden circle cronies
Last time we lie
Mention the Mahon tribunal and he’ll do a runner.
Betie ahern can fcuk off
Let’s all listen to Bertie… What’s the worst that could happen!
Bertie would not put a bet on why not you were brilliant gambler in power forget today just think future of Fianna fail
So…FFG are the safe pair of hands. Good with the finances etc. Yet one half of them bankrupted the place and the other half are breaking world records for overspending on projects, never mind buying things without basic due diligence (the printer fiasco)…ah yea…safe pair of hands.
He’s a toe rag, plain and simple. Not a simpl toerag, rather a devious one. He knows that the game is up and this is a time buying ploy. The Greens let the country down before, will do again. Won’t need Soc Dem in the mix. Predicted this would happen but thought it would be Labour with a few Healy-Raes, Lowry Mattie McGrath and One or two more. But remember Bertie has been brought in to smooth the way for the big two FFG to join up and fnck up again
Soc Dems getting into bed with FF? Only in Cork….
Jesus ye must be stuck for news?
PARASITIC POLITICAL PARASITE.
Shut up Bertie. No one cares what you think
He also said in his interview that FF FG and SF could go in together just like it was 100 years ago.
5 years of more of the same. *sighs*
Sure they can see these comments and they don’t give a stuff. Fg/ff in denial even when there asked about coalition with each other no straight answer FF MADE IT CLEAR NO COALITION WITH SF OR FG KEPT THERE WORD WITH SF BUT NOT FG. Journal.ie do a poll show them how the people feel.
Has any one considered the role of the EU in all this .
The money in that fund that is not ours on loan form EU and IMF. Attached legislation that i wld not have to entertain but for the vote of TD ( FF and FG) who gave minister ( thinking they wld have all th control) POWER ( rather then keeping it to DAIL) to take 500 million euro out of the central fund to pay for banks ; correct overspends. And if he does then why are people asking and querying wher is money for helath and education and housing when the answe cld be in that legislation > a min took money out too correct a budget def or to protect financial system and the deal never laid before the dail ?
People really need to put think about the publci fund OUR FUND and what TD are doing .. is is the DAIL the has duty to care for those monei not hand it over to a min , and take control of the loan and the terms and exercise mandate to sned it back to brussells. People need to tell own TD nEVER EVER GOVT .
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/act/18/enacted/en/pdf
Why doesn’t he crawl back under a rock
This is a classic case of the Elephant in the Room (SF) who gave its preferences to the Greens & SocDems. Bertie & FF are in a state of denial and it will take another election
to make them realise that, IMO.
The electorate does not want:
-Property Tax
-USC
-increased Vat
Or all the other tax rubbish imposed on the average Irish worker to pay for the excesses
and stupidity of Bertie & Co.
What the hell does he know about Stability robber of the poor and the greens will never be forgotten for been a traitor to the people time for change and the people have made it clear government without fg/ff and the greens are just numbers they only got it because of sf numbers. Remember greens jump in to bed with fg/ff your done next election FACT.
The opinion of a man who bankrupted the country and whose main source of income was, apparently, a dig out from the lads and a lucky week in Cheltenham? Frankly, he can FRO!
The Irish people will revolt if that happen
Who cares what this pompous toad thinks.
The Irish people will revolt if that happens
Another GE, this nonsense between FG and FF will drag on for weeks if not months, yet they keep telling us we need stable governments,if it takes that long to agree then its not stable.
Get back in your cupboard Bertie
He’s has some Gregory Peck even saying anything little runt
sssh , speech…..using best european accent
Trichet: We saw the European project was i trouble. We asked the Irish to put their hand in their pocket. Bertie and Brian, were sooooh good about this…
Heckler: and then what?
Trichet: The Irish people put their hands in and found €60 billion. Can you believe it?
Crowd: Mumur and shock
Trichet: They gave us the money….we did not have to ask twice for it!. The Irish are sooooh gooooooooooooood
Get your Anorak on Bertie and head off.
Go away Bertie, we really dont need you making things worse.
This plan will split FF down the middle, it cannot succeed . The Confidence & Supply wrecked FFs chance of winning the expected 55 Seats. This will do untold damage and cannot be supported by the paid up Ordinary Members of FF. It is a non runner .
Banana Republic still it seems..
What a load of rubbish Bertie should but none of those options are change is fg and ff out of government a general election again they had no problem vote for Lisbon again
F*ck Bertie
FF and FG still pretending to be different parties. They should do the decent thing and rename themselves as one. I think they planned governing together long before the election.
This is a bit like an arsonist giving advice on fire prevention. Bertie still has the house in the park in his sights.
Assertion that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail had it all their own way for nearly a century
During the election campaign, Mary Lou McDonald based her slogan that people wanted change on her assertion that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail had it all their own way for nearly a century.
That assertion does not seem historically rigorous; it seems a shallow slogan.
Yet it seems to have been readily bought-into by a substanial portion of the electorate.
Up to nine years ago Irish electorates had Fianna Fail in power almost without interruption for approximately ninety years.
During this time, every generation was exported – I do not know of any that was not.
Do you?
Occasionally Fine Gael and Labour were elected after such events and repeatedly put the economy back on its feet.
They did so after the noughties bankruptcy – on Feb 8th 2020 the economy was booming, having recenty been resurrected from the dead, and the GDP was the highest in the EU.
Labour were removed in the 2016 election.
Fine Gael and Independents went on to keep the recovery going and to increase fiscal space, by which the State could afford to provide investment in weaker sections of the economy.
Now the electorate has voted their removal.
The electorate seems to be positioning to export the new generation – like all previous ones.
(Irish electorates are very fair electorates!)
Again, this dynamic seems informed by the above rigour-lacking, shallow slogan.
Perhaps the electorate should have considered that after the noughties bankruptcy, we had friends who loaned us €200,000,000,000.00 to give us a chance to get back on our feet and minimise austerity rather than have us go back to 1847.
If there is a bankruptcy in the next five years, there may not be anyone loaning us another €200,000,000,000.00.
Buyer beware of shallow slogans!
@PK:
I might add that it seems fair to say that the media championed her slogan and made it the theme of the election.
In 2016 Fine Geal used the slogan “Keep the recovery going” and the phrase “fiscal space”.
The media immediately – during the 1.00 radio news the day the election was called – slaughtered these themes, thereby influencing, if not taking charge of, the narrative.
Perhaps in future elections Fine Gael should focus much less on the other parties and candidates running for election and much more on the media!
@PK:
Many posters here miss the point:
-That it was unfair for FF in conjunction with the Troiks to tax average Irisgh working people to pay for the sins of the Celtic Tigers aided and abetted by the Banksters &
the Political elite. PERIOD!
The FF-FG Government did nothing to address that injustice nor do they intend to do so.
We dont want:
-Property Tax
-USC
-Increased Vat
The “up themselves” middle class & their “agents of definition” in the Right Wing Press
simply dont get it. Let those who caused the property bubble pay for it; not the cash strapped working stiffs who are living from pay packet to paypacket.
There will likely be another election this year so SF should encourage the working class and the poor to get out there and vote for their hip pockets.
The Middle Class & the well heeled have been doing that for almost a century!
@Moorooka Mick and @Donal Desmond:
I am getting drawn in to chat.
“to pay for the sins of the Celtic Tigers aided and abetted by the Banksters & the Political elite.”:
An Irish electorate voted peope to govern the country – to me that means to over see whether the private sector went – were allowed to – go on a borrowing binge, as, perhaps, a means of the gov circumventing the maximum 3% budget deficit stipulated for participants in the new Euro currency.
So, with whom should the buck stop if not the effective shareholders in the country – those (eelctorate) who elected those to preside in gov?
Who?
The “the Banksters & the Political elite.” could not repay 1% of the damage. So, who?
@PK: You can say that again!
@Paul Whitehead:
Thank you.
Continuing the above:
“encourage the working class and the poor to get out there and vote for their hip pockets”:Running international companies out of the country certainly would change the fiscal space and “their hip pockets”.
Nine years ago the fiscal space was negative to approximarely €20,000,000,000.00.Some were proposing burning all the bondholders.
This would have precluded anyone from loaning to us.
It would have meant a €20,000,000,000.00 shock to the economy, per annum.
It would have been Pol Pot policy – everyone out to the fields; back to the Stone Age.
The banks and the politicians could not have repaid 1% of it.
Indeed, the state has yet not done so.
@PK: (Compacting posts into one for easier emailing).
Assertion that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail had it all their own way for nearly a century
During the election campaign, Mary Lou McDonald based her slogan that people wanted _change_ on her assertion that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail had it all their own way for nearly a century.
That assertion does not seem historically rigorous; it seems a shallow slogan.
It is probably fair to say the media championed it.
And it seems to have been readily bought-into by a substanial portion of the electorate.
Up to nine years ago Irish electorates had Fianna Fail in power almost without interruption for approximately eighty years.
During this time, every generation was exported – I do not know of any that was not.
Do you?
Occasionally Fine Gael and Labour were elected after such events and repeatedly put the economy back on its feet.
For example, they did so after the noughties bankruptcy – on Feb 8th 2020 the economy was booming, having recenty been resurrected from the dead and the GDP was the highest in the EU – a fiscal space turn-around of approx. €22 bn and perhaps an extra 500,000 working.
Labour were removed in the 2016 election.
Fine Gael and Independents went on to _keep the recovery going_ and to increase fiscal space_, by which the State could afford to provide investment in weaker sections of the economy.
This slogan and the phrase “physcal space” were immediately slaughtered by the media.
Now the electorate may have voted their removal.
The electorate seems to be positioning to export the new generation – like all previous ones. (Irish electorates are very fair electorates!)
Again, this dynamic seems informed by the above rigour-lacking, shallow slogan.
Perhaps the electorate should have considered that after the noughties bankruptcy, we had friends who loaned us €200,000,000,000.00 to give us a chance to get back on our feet and minimise austerity rather than have us go back to 1847.
If there is a bankruptcy in the next five years, there may not be anyone loaning us another €200,000,000,000.00.
Buyer beware of shallow slogans!
++++++++++++
I might add that it seems fair to say that the media championed her slogan and made it the theme of the election.
In 2016 Fine Geal used the slogan “Keep the recovery going” and the phrase “fiscal space”.
The media immediately – during a broadcast on the 1.00 pm radio news the day the election was called – slaughtered these themes, thereby influencing, if not taking charge of, the narrative.
Emphasis: The media immediately – during the 1.00 pm radio news the day the election was called – slaughtered these themes, thereby influencing, if not taking charge of, the narrative.
Perhaps in future elections Fine Gael should focus much less on the other parties and candidates running for election and much more on the unelected media – to ensure the latter would not be the major determinants of the outcome.
Perhaps it should be made clear to reporters that the broadcast media is not intended as a platform for them but for the guest(s).
++++++++++++
In reply to: “to pay for the sins of the Celtic Tigers aided and abetted by the Banksters & the Political elite”:
It seems to me that in the noughties an Irish electorate voted people to preside in government over the country.
If those elected people presided over the private sector going on a borrowing binge, perhaps as a means for the Government to circumvent the 3% budget deficit maximum stipulated for them by the new Euro currency, then with whom should the buck stop if not with the effective shareholders – the electorate who choose the Government?
(If just one bank became reckless in their policy, what options did their competitors have other than to either do the same or go out of business?)
It seems to me the buck stops with the Regulator, who was approved by the Gov. who were approved by the Electorate.
The “Banksters & the Political elite” could not pay for 1% of the damage.
So, with whom should the buck stop?
+++++++++++
In reply to: “encourage the working class and the poor to get out there and vote for their hip pockets”:
Running multi-national companies out of the country and making others less competitive certainly would change the fiscal space and “hip pockets”.
Nine years ago, 300,000 people having been scattered to Australia etc. and 300,000 put on social security, the fiscal space was negative to approximarely €20,000,000,000.00.
Some were proposing burning all the bondholders.
This would have precluded anyone from loaning to us.
It would have meant a €20,000,000,000.00 shock to, or removal from, the economy.
It would have been Pol Pot (Cambodia) austerity – everyone out to the fields; back to the Stone Age.
The banks and the politicians could not have repaid 1% of the damage done.Indeed, the state has yet not done so.
However, perhaps with reporters in the media being being determinants, apparently a large portion of the electorate, on Feb. 28th 2020, expressed disagreement, however shallow/rigorous.
How/What would an incoming government do now if the fiscal space was €22 bn smaller and the work-force 500,000 less …
FF + FG + A FEW IND = Steady Progress
SF + REST = Chaos
Couldn’t lie straight in bed
What a sleazebag. Typical of the Irish mentality that his warped opinions are reported!
STFU you moron
Bring Back Bertie
My previous post may have been in the wrong place.
Assertion that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail had it all their own way for nearly a century
During the election campaign, Mary Lou McDonald based her slogan that people wanted change on her assertion that Fine Gael and Fianna Fail had it all their own way for nearly a century.
That assertion does not seem historically rigorous; it seems a shallow slogan.
Yet it seems to have been readily bought-into by a substanial portion of the electorate.
Up to nine years ago Irish electorates had Fianna Fail in power almost without interruption for approximately ninety years.
During this time, every generation was exported – I do not know of any that was not.
Do you?
Occasionally Fine Gael and Labour were elected after such events and repeatedly put the economy back on its feet.
They did so after the noughties bankruptcy – on Feb 8th 2020 the economy was booming, having recenty been resurrected from the dead, and the GDP was the highest in the EU.
Labour were removed in the 2016 election.
Fine Gael and Independents went on to keep the recovery going and to increase fiscal space, by which the State could afford to provide investment in weaker sections of the economy.
Now the electorate has voted their removal.
The electorate seems to be positioning to export the new generation – like all previous ones.
(Irish electorates are very fair electorates!)
Again, this dynamic seems informed by the above rigour-lacking, shallow slogan.
Perhaps the electorate should have considered that after the noughties bankruptcy, we had friends who loaned us €200,000,000,000.00 to give us a chance to get back on our feet and minimise austerity rather than have us go back to 1847.
If there is a bankruptcy in the next five years, there may not be anyone loaning us another €200,000,000,000.00.
Buyer beware of shallow slogans!
@PK: like the use of (friends who lent us money)… and failing to mention the Banks, Developers, facilitated by F.F. who got us into this mess. Yet the banks, bailed out by the taxpayers who for years to come will still be paying for this gangsterism. For the last four years F.F. have kept F.G. in power , Now it seems this cartel have manouvered themselves back into power. What a nation of fools we are.
@Donal Desmond:
Thx for the reply- -engagement.
However, I am not interested in getting into discussion here – just expressing myself.
Cheers.
@Donal Desmond and @Moorooka Mick:
I thought I had this reply posted successfully already but it is not here.
I either failed in posting it or it was quickly removed.
So, another attempt:
I am getting drawn into chat.
“to pay for the sins of the Celtic Tigers aided and abetted by the Banksters & the Political elite”:
It seems to me an Irish electorate voted people to preside in government over the country.
If those elected people presided over the private sector going on a borrowing binge, perhaps as a means for the gov to circumvent the 3% budget deficit maximum stipulated for them by the new Euro currency, then with whom should the buck stop if not with the effective shareholders – the electorate who choose the gov?
(If just one bank became reckless in their policy, what options did their competitors have other than to either do the same or go out of business?)
It seems to me the buck stops with the regulator, who was approved by the gov who were approved by the electorate.
The “Banksters & the Political elite” could not pay for 1% of the damage.
So, with whom should the buck stop?
None of these won or were voted , they got there on transfers
have your say