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BORIS JOHNSON’S BREXIT deal could force Northern Ireland to operate in a different time zone to the rest of the UK for half the year, peers have warned.
The European Parliament voted last year in support of a proposal that would put an end to the twice-yearly changing of the clocks to accommodate extra daylight hours.
Under an EU directive, all 27 states currently switch to summer time hours on the last Sunday of March and back to Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) on the last Sunday of October – a pattern the UK follows.
But under a potential swap by Brussels to a “double summer time” arrangement, a House of Lords committee has warned that the Prime Minister’s Withdrawal Agreement could see Northern Ireland legally obliged to be one hour ahead for six months every year.
It would mean the 1.8 million people living in the six counties would follow summer time hours, even when those in Great Britain wind their clocks back by 60 minutes in the autumn.
The Irish government had been opposed to the EU’s proposal last year because at the time it could have resulted in different time zones on the island of Ireland.
However the Brexit deal signed Northern Ireland up to continuing to follow EU rules on goods and agriculture in order to prevent a hard border and Northern Ireland may have to follow suit with the time zone change.
“Were this proposal (for double summer time) to become EU law under its current single market legal basis, Northern Ireland may be obliged under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement and the protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland to align with the EU and thus institute a time border with Great Britain,” said the Lords’ EU internal market sub-committee in its report, Clock changes: is it time for change?
The group of cross-party peers have called on the Government to “give urgent further consideration” to the impact the Brexit agreement could have if the EU does decide to make the summer time switch permanent – and criticised ministers’ lax approach to what could be a significant change for the UK.
“Our inquiry has demonstrated that any such decision at EU level would have implications for the UK, notwithstanding UK withdrawal from the EU,” wrote the peers.
“The nature and significance of such implications is not, however, well understood – not least by the Government.”
Baroness Donaghy, chair of the committee, said there was also the possibility that Ireland could face a situation where it has different time-zones on either side of the border.
“So far the government has stuck its head in the sand on the EU Commission’s proposal, hoping that it goes away,” she said.
“However, if it doesn’t, we could be caught unaware and unprepared to make a decision, leaving the island of Ireland with two time zones at different times of the year and causing difficulties for people and businesses in Northern Ireland.”
The report, published today praised ministers’ “informal engagement” with counterparts in Northern Ireland on the issue, but pushed for a more detailed review to take place.
Peers recommended reviewing research carried out in countries that have different time zones, and identify the possible implications of time zone changes for both domestic and international businesses.
Business minister Kelly Tolhurst, giving evidence to the committee last year, said: “Anything that would create a time border in Northern Ireland we are completely opposed to, and so is the Irish government.”
The proposal to scrap the bi-annual time-switch across the Continent derived from a citizens’ forum carried out by the EU.
The consultation, undertaken when the UK was still a member, received 4.6 million responses, 84% of which were in favour of abolishing the clock change practise.
But peers noted that the respondents accounted for less than 1% of the EU population, and 70% of those responses came from Germany alone.
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Cull the cows to build more data centres. The Green agenda need to be thrown in the bin.
@common sense: But they were consigned to the dust bin. In the election after their dreadful coalition with FF, they got no seats. But, as I’m constantly saying, Irish people have short memories at election time and very fickle when it comes to voting. I mean they voted FG after FG tried to screw us over by introducing water charges at a time when unemployment rates were rocketing, which resulted in record breaking emigration and the rest of us left on our knees. Just like FG, I have never voted for the Greens, nor will I ever. It’s a case of do as I say, not what I do
@common sense: It should be noted, since 2022, planing law stipulates that new data centres must be 100% matched with additional renewable energy generation capacity. So if a company submits panning permission for a Data Centre that needs 20 Megawatts of electricity, they must pay to build 20 Megawatts of renewables. This is renewable generation added to Ireland’s electricity grid.
“There are conditions attached to planning permissions. Sometimes those conditions are based on the data centre policy, as issued in 2022, which requires, for example, that all new data centres are provided and are matched with additional renewable energy generation capacity which was not going to be available on the grid before that data centre project was proposed. These data centres have to provide their own 100% renewable energy and have to provide backup in the event of a security of supply problem. That backup can be drawn on in times of need.” – https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-09-28/80/
I interpret, “these data centres have to provide their own 100% renewable energy “, to mean that data centre owners must pay to build renewable generation.
So while data centres are using more and more electricity, the electricity they’re using should be coming from the additional renewable generation capacity they paid to build. The question is, does this benefit us? Do we get surplus electricity from the wind farms or other renewable projects that Data Centre owners paid for? Or do they provide no benefit, but more turbines on the landscape?
Regardless of the answer, I think this might be why the Green Party supports Data Centres. Maybe it’s about getting free wind farms off the backs of Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple etc.
Also, see there are plans to add megawatts of battery storage at data centres (there are several pilot projects) that will even out the intermittency of renewables, storing surplus electricity in vast battery farms that’s used when there’s shortfall in renewable generation. Maybe the Greens are thinking about this as well. Solving the intermittency problem is one of the biggest challenges of renewables.
@David Jordan: Eirgrid always had to state that they believed there was sufficient generation in the grid before a new data centre was connected anyway
@Mick Duvanny: “Eirgrid always had to state that they believed there was sufficient generation in the grid before a new data centre was connected anyway”
Interesting to know.
Well, then it seems the Green Party’s support for data centres, that seems to conflict with their goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, might be explained by the potential surplus of renewable energy generation resulting from the expansion of data centres.
@David Jordan: There are two obvious problems with that David.
1) An RE capacity does not mean an RE generation. If the wind blows – so to speak – then we can get that 20MW. If it doesn’t…
2) Any new RE development that is consumed by new Data Centers is RE that could have been used to reduce our fossil fuel generated electricity, in turn reducing our CO2 emission, our imports of fossil fuels (benefiting our balance of payments), and reducing fines we will be subject to for not meeting our CO2 emissions.
There is no case to cripple the people for the minuscule benefits of Data Centers.
The Internet allow access to data anywhere in the World.
@common sense:and there it was…uttered in front of the masses. Such hypocrisy wouldnt be attempted by any normal person. Perhaps he will sway towards nuclear energy now to power them?
How much does Data Centre pay per unit of electricity, I wonder?
@Daniel Dudek: Microsoft used to post it on Azure pricing, they bulk buy units, if I recall it was around 10c per kWh
@Daniel Dudek: Let them build as many as they wany, but have them in the countryside surrounded by both wond and solar farms. They should be self powered.
@Dave C: CRU should be thrown out of office or pulled out of office by the people if that is the rate, they pay. Screwing working Households, we need to take back control of the State or else the place is going to explode very soon.p
@Dave C: They don’t get it any cheaper than any of the other suppliers. They would have to buy wholesale and could then hedge to a fixed price. If they were allowed, they’d build their own generation separate from the grid
@Daniel Dudek: that’s a secret
@Brian Keelty: coming from somebody that clearly does not live in countryside. Data Centres, Solar Farm are a quick way for farmers to get out of growing crops. Heavily subsidised for years by Europe now want to jump onto next bonanza
With genuine respect to the departing minister, nobody listens anymore.
@Brian Dunne: It should be noted, since 2022, planing law stipulates that all new data centres must be 100% matched with additional renewable energy generation capacity. If a company submits panning permission for a Data Centre that needs 20 Megawatts of electricity, they must pay to build 20 Megawatts of renewables, that’s added to Ireland’s electricity grid.
The question is if this actually benefit us or just off-sets the problem of data centres using more and more electricity. Dp only get more data centres and wind turbines on hilltops, will the extra renewable generation capacity help with the transition to renewables and benefit household consumers?
I think this is why the Greens paradoxically support Data Centres, perhaps they think data centre owners are providing a free renewable energy upgrade, at a low cost.
“There are conditions attached to planning permissions. Sometimes those conditions are based on the data centre policy, as issued in 2022, which requires, for example, that all new data centres are provided and are matched with additional renewable energy generation capacity which was not going to be available on the grid before that data centre project was proposed. These data centres have to provide their own 100% renewable energy and have to provide backup in the event of a security of supply problem. That backup can be drawn on in times of need.” – https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-09-28/80/
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-09-28/80/
@David Jordan: You have to be one of Cabbage heads payed consultant’s
“Look at where we are. We’re in the Docklands area where we’ve huge employment and huge benefits from having us be the centre of the digital industry,” he said.
Does he think the people working in marketing and sales at the large multinationals are based here because of the data centers? They’re here for our generous tax benefits and being the only English speaking country in the EU. While a data center does create temporary construction employment being built, once it’s up and running it only maintains around 5-30 jobs depending on the size. Data center techs aren’t particularly well paid either, earning a pretty average salary, so the tax take isn’t something to write home about. Sure, you could argue they benefit us in a digital society, but is the strain/costs to our grid worth it?
@Sean Stevenson: Yes,
@Alex: How so? Even if we’re benefitting from it from the digital world standpoint, the capacity of data centres built thus far in Ireland far exceeds the needs of our population. Our grid is suffering for basically no gain tax wise, to serve up data to populations abroad. We gain next to nothing, and lose massive swathes of land that could be used for housing. Irish ministers, once again, proving how clueless, inept, or perhaps outright corrupt they are.
And when are the prices coming down?,
@Terry Molloy: LOL, that’s very good. Love it. I must remember that one, “when are prices coming down?” This is Ireland & the answer is that they will NOT come down.
@Terry Molloy: With the ‘demand’ these centres are generating the price increase graph will be showing vertical lines.
Go away please Sir
This guy needs to be investigated asap, we have 25% of all Europe’s Data Centres, using one fifth of all Electricity & it will be 32% by 2026. Dublin has the biggest hub of Data Centres of any European city. There are 14 more being built & planning for 40 more, remember 1 Data Centre uses the equivalent energy of Kilkenny city ! They pay cheap Kwh prices, with householders crucified with extortionate prices subventing this sham, backed by Govt & it’s Quango, the CRU. Energy Sector has to reduce Emissions by 75% but yet we keep building Data Centres who use our Grid, powered by Fossil fuels. This Hypocrite keeps pointing the finger at Farmers & Households when the finger should be pointed at him. Bigger picture here is somebody is pocketing Big Money turning a blind eye to this scandal.
@SV3tN8M4: How’s about asking your buddy The Bertie Kisser and all your friends in FFG .
@David Murray: My Buddy Bertie the Kisser & FFG, you obviously never read any of my posts you Troll. Go back up to your room now like a good lad & don’t be annoying the adults & shave the palms of your hands while your up there, good boy.
As an island economy we must strive to be as self sufficient as possible. Every thing we surrendered gas and oil barryroe sugar briquettes agricultural production of vegetables potatoes fruit meat etc is all being imported by non Irish multinationals the supermarket’s and all the other high street retailers are taking massive profits out of the country and please don’t say they give massive employment this could be achieved by our own entrepreneurs
Turn on the small man Ryan but keep best of buddies with the multinationals.
Hypocrite, don’t necessarily agree with a lot of the green ideology but this guy is green green for the common man but not where it might effect his future cushy numbers post retirement. Do journalists ever look into where all these politicians + or their associates/family) go or receive income stream from post retirement. Now that would shed some light on their many decisions they make for “the people”. Need journalists for that which we have a dearth of, plenty of pr people though pretending to be journalists.
The question that should be asked is
How much do they pay per unit. Guaranteed to shock
What is the DATA capacity of all of our data centers?
Or in other words how many people are being served by them. If it’s 20M people, for example, then that far exceeds our population and we are therefore running data centers for other populations. (I suspect it’s way more than 20M)
Is that because the State has created a sweetheart deal with energy suppliers for a low electricity rate for data centers and as such we are being exploited whereby the regular consumer pays more for electricty to make up the shortfall?
Back to you, Eamon, tell us it’s not another scam setup by and enabled by the Irish State.
@Paddy Short: We are the dumping ground for Data from Europe & the USA, it’s only stored here because of our Tax regime, cheap energy prices subvented by Householders paying extortionate rates & also because they can run rings around our Planning Laws thanks to corrupt Politicians.
@Paddy Short: Up to 2018, Ireland had 25% of Europe’s data centers. European pop 746 million. We cater for approx 185 million with a population of 5.2 m. That’s 36 times our national need. We’ve built even more since.
They plan on restricting holidays, eating meat and dairy, automobile ownership, buying clothes and a lot more and they only way they can do it is thru the digital system, akin to the Chinese one…..so it’s no surprise to see them protect the data centres, that are essential for the social credit system.
Maybe I’m not seeing the entire picture here, but as I understand it these companies build these enormous datacenters and then don’t pay the same price us mere mortals pay for our electricity, they pay a substantially cheaper rate. Eamon Ryan said they bring in great benefits to our economy but didn’t expand on this, they don’t offer a lot of well paid jobs as datacenters don’t have many staff and lets be honest these companies don’t pay their fair share of tax.
At a time when we have serious electricity generation issues datacenters use vast amounts of both electricity and water to keep their equipment cool vastly increasing Irelands carbon emissions. Ireland, or rather the taxpayer, will have to pay increased fines for not coming anywhere close to our carbon emission targets and one of the principal causes of this, datacenters, gets away without paying a penny.
Our governments have thier own agenda’s, but explaining why it’s a good idea isn’t one of there fortieth s
Every passing day is another day closer to the green party evaporating in the next election
Corrib gas field what a tragedy for Irish people a giveaway for a song FF and BA had their dipstick in this.
@Phillip Smyth:
The difference between Norway and Ireland in terms of exploration and social policy.
Look in the mirror and see what hapless followers of experimental theorists and mathematical modellers look like.
Cull a cow and build as many data centres as you can…..
Eamon Ryan has lost all credibility. Our grid is under massive pressure because of all these data centers. He no more cares about the environment. If he did he wouldn’t be calling for more coal and gas powered electricity to keep data centers online. Especially why people are paying 30 cent a kw and are being asked to cut back and data centers only pay 10 cent for the same electricity.
@Washpenrebel: That’s not true. Less data centres would mean less generation would’ve been brought online. So the grid would still be under pressure if there was a couple of unexpected outages. If anything the larger grid brings economy of scale and more resilience
@Mick Duvanny: so tell me how many new power plants how Eamonn built? Any new hydro electricity dams? Because all the peat power stations have been closed. The gas we are burning used to come from Russia now it’s comes from America where they destroy the environment by tracking the earth. We have the most wind of any country in Europe and Eamon has done nothing to harness the offshore wind potential. Just burn more fracked gas instead.
So we are being screwed so data centres can flourish.
Sounds about right.
I have to laugh at the trolls on here that try to convince us the government has our best interests at heart, and not their own pockets
‘Not about chasing votes’ says McDonald lol. That would be a first. Isn’t that what any party does? No wonder their vote is plummeting if this kind of nonsense is all they can come up with.
@Alan: She is flip flopping again, but actually wants even more people granted Status through sleight of hand legislation. No explanation from her where the houses & services are going to come from, as they are non existent in every community & no explanation from her as to who will be housed first, the Irish or those arriving weekly. Another strategy from her that is makey uppy as they go along.
@SV3tN8M4: “wants more people granted status through sleight of hand legislation” – any evidence to back this up?
@Alan: It’s genius really, how many places in the country have excess resources after an audit that could accept applicants? Look as if they have a policy on one hand and a stick to beat the government with the other.
Just listened to the condescending muppet on RTE how in the name of common sense does he get away with his / green policies.
Congrats to workers in Abtran taking on the company. It’s about time call centres were taken to task regarding work conditions. A disgrace
Statista .
Price worldwide dec 2023.
By select country in us dollars per kwh.
1 ireland
2 italy
3 belgium
Ect, ect.
there telling households when and if to use a washing machine to save electricity yet promoting useless electric cars,spending millions of taxpayers money on equally useless electric buses,promoting heatpumps that are totally inefficient and welcoming data centers that bring few jobs yet demand huge amounts of electricity that we don’t have..what planet does this man live on..
1. Supply enough renewable energy 2. Hear people out but don’t let Nimbism block every single installation.
And the ‘Hypocrisy Award 2024′ goes to?
Everyone is a climate advisory council when they affirm Ireland has a maritime climate as one research topic among many ( tropical, polar, continental climate).
The broader level of climate research, like geology and biology, is organised around the planet’s motions and not the dire predictions of scientific method modellers and ideological politicians.
A major overhaul is needed, and it must be promoted by an active electorate to prevent funding from reaching academics and advisory councils, which create hysteria and taxes based on the silly idea that controlling human behaviour controls the weather.
Electricity for data centres is priced between €0.10 to €0.15 per kilowatt-hour (kWh)
The average price for consumer electricity in Ireland is approximately €0.46 per kilowatt-hour (kWh)
In other words, with 32 % of electricity going to data centres, the consumer subsidises them.
That is what scientific method modelling represents: an ideological conviction for some and a lucrative proposition for others and people call me a bot because genuine climate research is nowhere near the lucrative subculture.
@Gerald Kelleher: The supplier pays the same wholesale prices so if the final price to commercial customers is cheaper I assume it’s to do with bigger volumes and longer term contracts. Also less customer service and regulation
We had to reduce our personal carbon footprint, the create more tax to punish all individuals but three big corporations are doubling our emissions and pushing higher up energy prices. Crazy faatt donk
Look at where we are indeed.. bottom of the table in Europe for consumption of energy coming from renewable sources.. (https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/daviz/countries-breakdown-actual-res-progress-15#tab-googlechartid_chart_21) So the bauld green Eammon is happy to prosper from these boheamaths of energy consumption because it makes us prosperous.. fine.. but don’t be a hypocrite then and lecture everybody on the finer details of climate action and bring in nonsensical initiatives/legislation in when yout record in government to bring Ireland,even off the bottom of the table for renewable energy, has failed miserably.. seems its ok to be abuse the climate and ones use of energy as long as you’re bringing huge amounts of money into the exchequer.. duly noted..
When the demand is mostly from data centres it’s the less well off that’ll have problems paying the price of supply.
Why is headline about the man so small is it because he’s a non national
Let’s stop all this % and figures and data use etc & monolithic goings on nothing is working right and the electorate are the ony data that counts.
Simple as.
We need a Minister for Infrastructure in the next government to develop and upgrade our Electricity, Road, Rail, Water & Sewerage networks to support the future development of our economy.
We need a moratorium on objections for the next 10 years.
We have the money and should spend it wisely!!
He wants to tax the living daylights out of any citizens having the temerity to want to keep themselves and their families warm but gives data centres a free ride. Clown.
Haha me and Farley have all the data we need in Balbriggan
People without profit Murphy thinks data centres are the last thing we need and vows to stop them built,and yet we have some of the largest tech companies in the world located here employing thousands and contributing billions in corporation tax to the IrIsh state every year and which other countries would love to have,and yet PBP want to get rid of them,jeez wept
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