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A WHEELCHAIR USER was told by a Bus Éireann driver that he needed to book a seat on his regional route 24 hours in advance, before then being asked “can you get out of that thing”, referring to his wheelchair.
The incident happened recently on the 109 service at Dunshaughlin, Co Meath, on a bus heading for Dublin.
The incident was written about by blogger and DJ Vanessa Monaghan, who was also present on the bus and witnessed events as they unfolded.
The young man in the wheelchair, who was accompanied by two girls, asked the driver of the double decker bus if he could lower the ramp.
The driver replied that there was no room on the bus according to Monaghan, despite the fact there were many free seats.
The driver then asked the young man whether or not he had pre-booked his seat.
When the man replied that he didn’t know he had to do so he was informed that such seats need to be booked 24 hours in advance.
The scene ended with the young man’s two female friends physically lifting him into an empty seat before stowing his folded-up wheelchair in the luggage area of the bus.
When contacted today by TheJournal.ie Bus Éireann acknowledged that the scenario outlined in the blog is a likely one.
“There is a mix of single deck and double deck coaches allocated to the 109 route. The LD type coach requires the removal of four seats to accommodate a wheelchair and advanced notice is required to remove these seats so that the wheelchair can be securely fixed to the floor using the clamping mechanism for the coach,” a spokesperson told us.
This is not a task that can be carried out by the driver and so the seats are removed in the garage.
Each service has one wheelchair space, therefore a reservation system is in place, requiring an intended customer to book 24 hours in advance of their journey, by telephoning the local Bus Éireann travel centre.
The spokesperson further clarified that such a reservation system is common practice across other EU countries.
Bus Éireann buses are 100% accessible for wheelchairs on their city services in Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway and Sligo.
They remain 67% accessible on their country-wide coach routes.
A third party complaint has been made to Bus Éireann regarding the incident detailed in this article. The incident is being investigated by Bus Éireann at present.
Luckily, Irish wheelchair users can see into the future and always know 24hrs in advance that they’ll have to undertake a bus journey.
Annie, while I sympathise with what you say, I have seen wheelchairs rejected by Dublin Bus because a parent with a buggy was already occupying the space…..there needs to be somewhat more facilities provided for those who have difficulties getting around….but some taxpayers will object.
John, that is down to the people (with buggy) who are occupying the wheelchair space.
All the driver can do is ask them to move, you might think that would be enough but it’s not always
a court ruling actually awarded compensation to a person with a buggy as they were asked to either fold their buggy to get iff the bus in favor of a wheelchair user. its set a precedent. I use a buggy regularly and 9/10 am knly to delighted to fold my buggy in favor of a wheelchair user but there are times where I can’t. I suffer with back issues and there for cant lift my child, fold the buggy and lift onto the rack along with a nappy bag and any shopping I may have at times as I would do more damage and as I have already paid a full fair you cant expect me to get off the bus. and thats not even bringing into it that some buggys dont fold up. in relation to this article tho I do believe those 4 seats should be removed and the space made available all the time.
“The LD type coach requires the removal of four seats to accommodate a wheelchair and advanced notice is required to remove these seats so that the wheelchair can be securely fixed to the floor using the clamping mechanism for the coach,”
This, obviously, is not something the driver can do on his own. in 2 minutes.
However, maybe Bus Eireann should probably bought more wheelchair-friendly buses.
I’d like to know their reasons.
Does anyone know if Aircoach, Wexford Bus, or Dublincoach have wheelchair spaces?
“Each service has one wheelchair space” so there is one permanent space on all buses
So why wasn’t there a wheelchair space on LD Class?
Where does it Say there was not? Perhaps it was all ready in use. Either way the drivers attitude is absolutely shocking and has no place in a modern public transport company
No Aircoach and JJ Kavanagh, Dublin Coach all operated the same type of vehicle that are unfriendly to wheelchair users.
Get Dublin Bus to operate all transport. Never have a problem with them. Top class
Most of their vehicles are purchased by the NTA not bus eireann.
But, Wayne, Bus Eireann have already said: “The LD type coach requires the removal of four seats to accommodate a wheelchair and advanced notice is required to remove these seats so that the wheelchair can be securely fixed to the floor using the clamping mechanism for the coach,”
I’m a Dublin Bus commuter and I know that GT Class, SG Class, AX Class, and the monster VT Class all have wheelchair spaces which don’t need a small army of technicians to remove seats 24 hours in advance for a wheelchair user to make space for a wheelchair.
You say “Perhaps it was all ready for use”. Clearly, according to Bus Eireann LD Class was not.
And I certainly don’t think the Bus Driver’s attitude was shocking, given that he could not possibly be expected to remove 4 seats, dump them at the side of the road, AND attach the wheelchair securely to a Clamping Mechanism without delaying other passengers by ABOUT 45 MINUTES – and that’s even assuming he had the correct Toolkit for this on him!
North Korean General, that’s interesting. I’m getting the impression from you that Dublin Bus area good Public Service operator. I tend to agree.
Kev Gero, thanks very much for that information. (I have noticed recently that the fleet numbers e.g SG37, VG12, have no longer matched the last 3 digits on the Dublin Bus’s license plate number, as they have done this 40 years past. What you say might well have something to do with it).
Exactly. This is to facilitate privatisation. As the routes are transferred out so will the vehicles as they will remain NTA property.
The seats are needed on a daily basis in comparison with the number of daily wheelchair users. To reduce the seating capacity by 4 for every rush hour journey just in case a wheelchair user might want to use the service would lead to more people being left at bus stops. If you think this situation is bad wait until the govt get their way with privatisation, there will no consideration for wheelchair users.
Kev Gero, while not strictly relevant to the matter of carrying wheelchair passengers ,I know that all private enterprise, at the end of the day, exists to make a profit, not to create jobs for people (although it can, and does, do this as a “spinoff”), not to magnanamously provide much-needed services for people ( although it can, and does, at a profit, of course).
As a plain vanilla high-frequency DB commuter, I had seen that something was different about the numbering recently. In the 1980s / 1990s, Licence Plate JZL386 (Bombardier) would have been classed internally in DB as KD386 (double-deck) or KC386 (KC being a single deck).
Thanks again for info :)
Perhaps more wheel hair users would use the bus, possibly even daily, if wheelchair spaces were available Gary?
Aircoach is the same scenario wheelchair users have to book in advance to use the service because the seats need to be removed before the coach goes out on that route, it doesn’t seem to be a big issue on the Aircoach service though because it’s not a journey that’s decided upon last minute, holidays, business trips etc are generally planned well in advance. I’ve worked for Aircoach for four years and in that time I’ve only taken 3 or 4 wheelchair users, interestingly what struck me about the experience was the impatience of the other passengers, taking a wheelchair user on board some coaches can take up to 4 or 5 minutes and I’ve witnessed people doing the old huffing and puffing and repeatedly looking at their watch type of behaviour, it’s also surprising how often I have to ask people to move out of the front seats when someone of reduced mobility gets on, it would seem we are not quite the wonderful nation of considerate souls that we like to think we are at least not while travelling to the airport anyway!
Sarah Casey, I tend to strongly agree with you. I have seen wheelchair users denied permission to board a Dublin Bus on a few occassions because the wheelchair space was already occupied by a parent with a child in a buggy. We, as a country, as an electorate, really need to provide good Public Transport for those who have difficulties in “getting around”.
I think, though, that what Gary’s main point is that with the Government wanting Privatisation of Public Transport, there would be pressure on all Bus Companies, Bus Eireann included, to take 4 full-fare paying passengers rather than 1 wheelchair passenger, because 4 passengers make more profit than 1 passenger.
Kev Gero, well noted; thanks again:)
Jon Hazelnut I’m glad you found my post informative. I would like to point out that I was not really discussing privatisation just pointing out that bus eireann do not get to choose what vehicles are bought for them anymore. The fact that unsuitable buses are being bought is down to the NTA. Criticism should be pointed there.
Robbie Kelly: Many, many thanks for this information. :))
Dublin Coach has wheelchair space
OK, thanks, Martin.On all classes, some, or most, and how big is the fleet (of buses).?
I can verify that there was no other wheelchair on the bus
Nessy wrote: “I can verify that there was no other wheelchair on the bus”.
Thanks Nessy, I take it that you were on the bus in question.
Perhaps you feel that this other wheelchair passenger should have been allowed to get on the bus?
Problem is there wasn’t room for even one wheelchair passenger to get on the bus, you see,,,,
I don’t know what else to say
Hi John, yes I’m speaking about the bus in the original story.
As a disabled person and one not in a wheelchair. I write from experience. Dublin Bus do try to provide wheelchair space but if buggies take the space before a wheelchair traveller. Then you hit a problem. As they are asked to put the buggies away amd hold the child. I have seem the response of upset buggy owners. I had an issue when I wa using a walking stick to give up the disability seat for a buggy. It is not the driver fault if people will not obey the rules and common decency. Bus eireann do have problems and the driver missed out on the tact 101 class.
Private companies make people with travel passes wait till the cash and ticket holders are seated. I have a pass and I see it on a regular basis.
ON another point not all disabled people are in a wheelchair, so chris we are not in a mafia wheelchair or otherwise. I am too tall for most busses at 6 ft 2 and a bit. So I duck a bit. Be hopeful you or yours become disabled and rely on public transport. Disabled people get treated horribly in this country especially if it is an invisible disability like a traumatic brain injury. I know from experience.
F#ckíng disgrace.
This bus driver has been watching to much little Britain he assumes when we turn our backs all wheelchair users get up and dance!Pric.k
Yeah that or he was genuinely trying to find a resolution to an unfortunate situation. Its certainly not the drivers fault that there was no wheelchair space on the bus in question. This could all sound a lot worse than it was meant to.
Disgraceful.. those 4 seats should be permanently removed… in belgium there is always room on busses equipped with a ramp for a wheelchair .. i’m not aware of a seat booking system here…
Peter, read it again, there is always one wheelchair space on each bus
yes but it is not permanently accessible. there are four regular seats in the space that have to be removed to turn it into the wheelchair space. Peter is saying those seats should be permanently removed making it always a wheelchair space and nothing else.
Helen, you are correct, and Peter Clancy is too. On Dublin Bus, I have never seen a situation where seats would have to be removed 24 hours in advance to make room for a wheelchair – and I travel with them about 14 to 20 journeys a week.
The wheelchair /buggy space is always there.
Maybe Bus Eireann were forced to introduce this measure to try to compete with private operators on the same routes – I don’t know for sure – but if 4 paying passengers can pay 4 times the fare of 1 wheelchair user, and if Bus Eireann are trying to compete with private operators, I could see that that little bit of extra revenue could help.
I’d like to know, as I said above – with input from Kev Gero above – why the LD Class were bought for Bus Eireann.
May have been a poor choice of words by the driver to refer to the wheelchair as a thing but hardly a hanging offence. The outrage of some people here is comical.
Long distance commuter routes operated by BE do not allow standing passengers unlike DB who do but operate much shorter routes. Hence the cost of a wheelchair space is 4 seated passengers for a space that may not be used. It’s a bit of a dilemma and I suspect the current practice was arrived at as the best compromise . Also, vehicle selection and procurement for both DB and BE is the function of the NTA. Bottom line….. These things happen but when you have a blogger DJ with Mates in The Journal well then the drama factor is exponential.
Sorry David, but I actually don’t know the person who wrote the journal article. Have you read my original blog post?
This is a repeat of old news. Mattie McGrath raised the 24 hour notice issue last YEAR with pascal Donohue after an identical incident in Clonmel. The Minister pledged to him in a Dàil Topical Issue in June 2014 that he would ens the practice as per his obligations under the Disability Act. But its election season now so I guess we wheelchair users can expect a big announcement any day now??
Jacob you should by now know a ministers pledge is worth as much as his word…..
the NTA will not issue any new taxi / hackney licences unless the vehicle is wheelchair accessible. so why not apply the same rule to busses ?
Was at the 103 (to Ashbourne) terminus at Beresford Place recently and there was a guy in a wheelchair waiting. The next bus was a private coach, so he couldn’t board, had to wait 40 mins for the next one, which no doubt on this route was late or didn’t show at all.
Meanwhile 4 yes 4 buses which could take the wheelchair were parked up.
Disgraceful.
Nearly every day buses don’t arrive. You have to wait for the next one. And to top it all off it costs me nearly 10 euro for a day return ticket to town. I use Dublin bus to and go a longer distance and it costs me 2.55 there and back. Ripped off.
The 109 is also the most lucrative and expensive route in Ireland. They make enough money from this route to provide access to all its customers.
The driver was very inappropriate. However, I can see the need for 24 hour notice. For long distance journeys most of us know a day in advance – that’s why it’s cheaper to book online etc. It is more difficult to accomodate a wheelchair on a bus. Legally Bus Eireann are only required to provide reasonable accomodation. I think it is reasonable to seek 24 hours notice to take 4 seats out and allow enough time to clamp a wheelchair in.
I have also seen many positive experiences on Bus Eireann. Recently a driver pulled up outside a feeble woman’s house and helped her down the stairs of the bus.
Actually it is not cheaper to book online with a pass with Irish Rail and I am sure Bus Eireann use the same system.
That’s a good point Gary. The wheelchair user more than likely had a free pass. That is a fact that should have been included in the article as it adds an other nuance.
Just because it is common practice across the EU does not mean it is right, Ireland is one of the most charitable countries in foreign aid yet we have a disgraceful record in supporting our carers, disabled, the vulnerable, protecting our children etc. This country should be a champion of pioneering transport for our disabled and we should be going above and beyond common practice
This is beyond disgraceful. Why do we have to do everything arseways. You’d think Bus Eireann would have made sure that any new buses were wheelchair friendly buses on demand when tendering for them.
first the Government take away the €5000 transport grant and now Bus Éireann wont let them on the Bus. What a great Government we have cant wait for the elections.
This is a complete non-story. The guy was asked if he could get out of the wheelchair and said he couldn’t. And yet they lifted him out. So he could actually get out. What’s the problem? He still got on the bus. If he’s getting the bus he should know the rules. I’ve been turned away from buses because they were full. It’s absurd to expect a company funded by the taxpayer to leave a big empty space on every bus on the off chance that a wheelchair user will get on. This world would be a better place if people met each other half way, instead of going around demanding things and getting outraged.
on the money Chris Jones.
they should make it so the driver can adapt the seats as needs be and throw the extras in the luggage hold
Read it again Gerry what I got from reading it is there is a wheelchair space but normally there is 4 seats using the space unless you pre-book to have them removed we are a disgrace when it comes to public transport just back from Holland and we could do with following their example when it comes to access and availability of public transport for everyone when you go abroad you realise what a shambles our system is and how prohibitively expensive it is to use if you can even find a way on our system to get where you want to go car is king in Ireland
Being tall or big or overweight is not a disability. Not having the use of your legs or control over your body movements is. Having brain injuries are too.
Eaqsy to post when you have not faced the issues.
I have and watched family and friends do so too.
it was a fair question to ask could the person get out of the wheelchair driver just didn’t ask it properly.
And people want to nationalise Dell.
What has dell got to do with this you fool.
Never mind. Just carry on with whatever you’re doing.
Chris Jones I hope you finish up in one then you might get some thing between your ears.
Yeah, the wheelchair cosa nostra is the main thing fecking up this country and not selfish inconsiderate mé féiner eejits.
I’ve only read the article and none of the comments. This scenario is typical of the mindset of a large percentage of the inhabitants of this island. I experience it everyday. I see ignorant motorists parking in disabled parking spots because they have this fu$ked up notion that obesity is a disability. Double parking on corners outside a church on mass days because their supernatural deity has told them ” Fu$k your fellow human. Park where you like when you come to my house”. This country is a fu$king joke when it comes to basic consideration. As a resident of the rural counties I can confirm that outside of the big smoke, this attitude is more prevalent. BIG THICK IGNORANT CULCHIES. Yes I am abusing my own kind because they make me sick. Two faced, yellow bellied, lily liveried piebalds the lot of them. Bitter much….Hell yeah
What about the helicopter parents who clog up the roads to drop their fat little terd of a child a few hundred metres to get an education? Or the drug-takers who clog up the emergency rooms day-in, day out? (and I’m referring to the ‘sher it’s only a few pints’ drug-takers). You’re obviously aware how quickly idealogical notions go out the window once self-interest gets involved.
I warn you all….when they privatised transport in UK. Guess what happened….those with ‘Bus Pass’ only allowed travel during certain times for free…..Booooohhhh NTA for wanting to privatise. We’re a really small country it won’t work.
Maire, not even a slight inconvenience.
There is a wheelchair space on all the double deck coaches but there is always 2 rows of seats bolted to the floor there!
The wheelchair lifts are no good on the other coaches because they can only be used in a handful of stops where the stop and kerbing has been designed for their use. Drivers won’t/can’t use the lifts where it is unsafe to operate it.
I hate the way we treat the disabled in this country, some of the most basic things are made infinitely more difficult if not impossible by poor planning, lack of foresight and an overall lack of empathy from the powers that be. It shouldn’t even be an issue in this day and age, we should be enabling the disabled so that they can get from A to B with relative ease.
At least he can still get through the doorway !
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