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Like most things enda in life and business it’s a matter of trust and maybe her husband does not trust the enquiry process given the start its had.
How many other families have enquiries, headed by an international expert, into the death of their loved ones in hospital? The three Galway Consultants have been removed from the board and now the husband won’t even have a meeting with the head of the enquiry? As much as I feel sympathy for his loss I think he is being very unreasonable at this stage…
Winston…. are you really Enda in disguise??
Unreasonable …a desire for clarity and a desire not to speak to someone you possibly do not trust unreasonable? I believe he aims to do the very best for his wife and I feel he is doing so.
@Laura, add something of value.
@Andy, do you realize the legal consequences of a public enquiry? It’s take years and potentially cost millions. Is that in the interest of justice and who will pay for it? Will this set a precedent for future deaths in hospitals?
It’s all very well asking for a public enquiry but such an enquiry permits for legal representation of ALL parties involved and can be adversarial. The report could be dragged out to years not weeks.
Praveen has my utmost respect. Public enquiries should be carried out in this country, the culture of ‘behind closed doors’ serves nothing but the accused blushes…if they have nothing to hide then why worry.
If it transpires that a consultant actually said the words “this is a catholic country” then I would expect they should lose their job, that is a heinous thing to say.
This issue has embarrassed the country, made us look backward and this investigation further compounds the fact that we are investigating without full transparency.
Why prejudge the investigation before it even happens? It has an independent chairman and one of note in Sabaratnam Arulkumaran. I’m sure if he felt that the investigation was not being done in an open and proper way he would be the first to say so.
It’s still under the stewardship of the HSE. But regardless of that, why not have it conducted in public, the only reason you wouldn’t if the family involved didn’t want it, the husband of the dead woman is advocating it be conducted in public…it beggars belief that the government are pandering to the echelons of the medical profession.
Removing the 3 consultant from UCG hospital was a limp wristed gesture.
‘Why prejudge the investigation before it even happens? It has an independent chairman and one of note in Sabaratnam Arulkumaran. I’m sure if he felt that the investigation was not being done in an open and proper way he would be the first to say so.’
Jim, he wasn’t the one who lost his wife. Praveen Halappanavar has made it clear what kind of an inquiry he wants and is prepared to work with. As usual, the gombeens in Leinster House are doing their utmost to avoid the subject and delay any action being taken whilst placing the blame on someone else. In this case they are attempting to place the blame for the delay on a man who has lost his wife because of the laws in this country. For shame.
The investgation should already be started. In the case of a death under care a Local Risk Review group is enpanaled this report would have been compleat within days of Savitas death. I have heard no mention of it from anyone. This review is in my opinion the only input the HSE should have into the inquiry. Look what hapened for years when we let the Garda Investigate themselves.
Sorry but as much as I have sympathy for the man and the appalling tragedy that has happened here there is an inquiry under way and he should talk to them. If he’s not happy with the meeting and the results then he can still call for a public inquiry.
A public inquiry will take longer, cost more (great for the solicitors in this case!) and who can say whether it will do anything different to the one already being undertaken. The fact that it is under the stewardship of the HSE is irrelevant. It has an independent chairman who has credentials of the highest order.
It’s not importent whether a public inquiry would have the same or different results. What is importent is that there is an inquiry we can have confidence in.
The fact that it is under the stewardship of the HSE has EVERYTHING to do with this case! The hospital where Savita was left to die is under the umbrella of the HSE! Would you trust them if, god forbid, you were in that position?
I’m not calling you out and saying you’re wrong, Jim – you have a valid point. But I think in this case the express wishes of the husband should be adhered to.
If it was a member of my family I would be screaming for a public enquiry!!! No one knows the facts surrounding this lady’s death, it needs to be known!
Do you dispute the credibility of the board as constituted? Although there is a public interest in the outcome of the investigation this isn’t a public matter… It is a matter between the family and the HSE/Galway Hospital… Each party will be privy to the facts and those facts can be challenged by either side… If civil or criminal liability derives from the facts established a public case will then be heard but until then let’s not go on a witch hunt. Until the facts ARE established those professionals involved maintain a right to a good name.
@Winston Firstly, this case is much bigger than just the HSE/Galway hospital and family, and you know it. It’s extremely important to get the facts of this case through a trustworthy, transparent inquiry. The current inquiry is loaded with problems given it’s being commissioned by the HSE and had to already remove 3 members who were staff at Galway Hospital due to concerns. Whatever the outcome, there is going to be questions about it. Mr Halappanavar clearly does not trust the HSE, why would he? Would you if you had the experience he had with them?
A balance needs to be struck between independence and practicalities (and I’d add costs). A public enquiry is of a quasi-judicial nature and will drag the publication of a report into years not months. That’s a fact as the precedents show.
I think the government are beyond irritated that Praveen Halappanavar isn’t playing ball. Calling him a “decent man” is just so patronising. FG want him to roll over, accept an investigation that will come to the conclusion the government want it to come to and be done with it.
Maybe it’s time for another referendum on abortion? The world and the irish people have changed a lot in outlook since the last one was held. The government seem to be able to organise one at the drop of a hat these days, at least when it’s to please their EU masters so why not hold one on this? Of course, the pro-life lobby don’t want one, or any kind of legislation because the grey areas leave them a big stick to hold over doctors who are worried that any action on their part to perform one to save the mothers life would be met by legal action by these groups. If it was all put down in law what a doctor can & can’t do, their stick might not be quite so big. It’s also an international disgrace that in the 21st century this kind of thing could happen in an Irish hospital.
No need to waste money on another referendum, just put in place the legislation that should have been in place a long time ago already. At the very least abortions should be carried out when the mothers life is at risk due to the pregnancy. It’s a no brain-er really.
@ Donal, the problem with legislating just for the X case is that in many circumstances it is difficult to ascertain at what point the woman’s life is at risk. Her health may be clearly at risk, but the line between ‘ill-health’ and ‘risk to life’ is one that can be crossed too quickly for treatment to take place in time to save the woman (as may have been the case in Galway last month). If a woman is miscarrying over the course of a few days, her life is not necessarily in immediate danger (the agony and pain she is in apparently doesn’t matter) and nothing can be done until the foetal heartbeat stops. Her health may deteriorate over this time which could lead to her life being at risk, but at what point, and by whom is the decision made that her life is now at risk? How big a risk one is willing to take in order to maintain a pregnancy is a decision that can ONLY BE MADE BY THE WOMAN INVOLVED.
Personally I think it inhuman and cruel to make a women suffer through days of physical and emotional agony to protect the life of an inviable foetus. A woman in this situation should be entitled to have whatever medical procedure SHE CHOOSES to maintain HER HEALTH, not just her life.
It is too grey an area unfortunately. My Mam went into hospital at 15 weeks, she was miscarrying my brother. Although she was technically miscarrying, my brother was still alive. She lost so much blood that her b/p dropped to 40/28 which can prove fatal. The doctors and midwives worked so hard to save both my brother and my Mam and eventually they did. She was in hospital for 4 months and he was then born prematurely but he’s perfectly fine and you’d never know. She was in agony and thought she would lose the baby but sometimes they manage to save the baby. This was 35 years ago by the way, there are better chances for the baby today. I have an older brother who contracted Septicaemia in hospital here 8 years ago, he didn’t die thank God. The death of this poor woman is more to do with the state of our hospitals these days, the places are filthy compared to even 10 years ago. Abortion should just be legal full stop, gets rid of the whole “grey area” issue. Savita may well have survived if she’d received an abortion or she have contracted Septicaemia regardless. She’s not the first woman to die due to a pregnancy related issue and she won’t be the last unfortunately.
Seems perfectly standard legal proceedings not to meet directly with a protaganist in a legal issue but only through your legal advisers.
I get a a growing hint of a FG tarnishing of this man – the ‘decent man’ bit smacks of Leo Varadkars ‘women of a certain age’ slight. This kind of thing should not be said in the Dail but left to the independent inquiry. It is far too likely Enda will put his foot in it again and embarrass us all further.
The man has just lost his wife and child. Leave it out Enda.
Hasn’t this husband been through enough ! He has already said he will not co operate with this enquiry as he feels it is biased ! Leave him alone Kenny !
Why shun the inquiry when your first wish was granted …… to remove the Galway Consultants from the panel?
Does the husband not realise he is prolonging his own agony. Let’s see what happens
Praveen Halappanavar has stated from the very beginning that he wanted a public enquiry, not a HSE conducted affair. He rightly stated that no one from Galway should be involved in this enquiry, something that most people believe is logical and obvious and due to public backlash this has occurred.
This man has lost everything and is fighting to ensure this will never happen again by demanding an open, transparent process untarnished by bias which in light of international scrutiny and condemnation is something our government should be instigating themselves and not insinuating that he is not doing the decent thing by not co-operating.
This issue is divisive and polarises our country but it should not be swept under the carpet behind closed doors. We need to have an open debate about abortion and the facts relating to what happened to Savita should be disclosed publicly. It is the least Praveen Halappanavar deserves.
Enda wants all of this over as quickly as possible it would appear…… Not to find the truth but to push it aside and out of the public as fast as he can!
Is it just me or does Enda seem absolutely clueless in this situation? Its like he’s grasping at straws at the simplest idea, to try and make this go away. If anything this highlights what i have always thought of him. The man has zero leadership capabilities. In a crisis he bumbles on and on.
Mr. Halapanavar is within his rights not to meet the head of the enquiry. As he stated why should he those behind his wife’s shambolic treatment.
The Taoiseach needs to be very careful that he does not create the perception that Mr.Praveen Halappanavar is being discredited in this process. Praveen is a grieving man who has been robbed of his wife and child. Understandably, he is very angry as is Savita’s parents. Quite simply, what happened should not have happened. An inquiry is necessary, but we need to listen respectfuly to Mr.Halappanavar. He cannot be sidelined in this debate.
In the very best of Policitical terms, he’s ‘decent man’. Where were you Enda when there should have been legislation provided to prevent this scenario ever occurring. Grow a pair and start doing your job as leader of this country and start leading. Stop hiding behind 20yr arguments and get on with it. Public enquiries were set up to deal with other public interest topis, such as Moriarty, Smithwick, etc. He has said himself that this issue is dividing the country, therefore it is obviously a matter of grave public interest and as such this should be held in a fully public forum. However, limit the amount that can be charged for legal fees.
This is getting stupid now. An internal inquiry will have to be held regardless of any independent one also been conducted. If the guy doesn’t want to cooperate then that’s his choice. I hope others don’t treat an independent inquiry with the same disdain as he has shown.
It’s been said countless times already that an independent inquiry would not be prejudiced or affected by the outcome of this internal one. Deciding that the report is going to be biased before it has even begun is grossly unfair.
What does tribunals and inquiries actually achieve in this country?
Makes solicitors rich…
Forget about the investigation and inquiry for a moment.Enda Kenny should have made it a priority to meet Praveen Halappanavar on personal level as the leader of the country.That would have been the decent thing to do.Kenny has no decency,and proves that this is an exercise in arse covering.Disgraceful!!!
I’m no fan of Kenny but that’s a silly comment to make. A letter from the Taoiseach should be enough considering he has a country to run and more important transnational issues to deal with as well as an upcoming domestic budget. A bit of perspective would be nice.
Obama runs an even bigger country with a larger population,with much bigger problems than we have and still had the time to meet the parents of the two young boys that were swept away during Hurricane Sandy.It would have been the decent thing to do,a bit of a personal touch,instead of a letter.It’s called doing the right thing,and going above and beyond,sorry you don’t seem to understand that Séan.Seemingly Kenny doesn’t understand this either!!!
You mean he went to see that mother a handful of days before an election.
Actually it was the 15th of November which,was “AFTER” the election!!!
Agree 100%, Ru.
Oh for God’s sake. If Enda Kenny had met with him and expressed sympathy, this place would be screaming with comments about his hypocrisy. There are already people upthread telling him to stay out of the issue.
Oh Jesus Sean, take a breather!
At this point the major concern of the family seems to be not jeopardising the lawsuit. You know that millions will be settled on the poor man, and his legal team.
Way to try and deflect from the main point there, Guy. You should run for government.
Everyone wants a public enquiry when things go pear-shaped. Nobody wants to pay for it. Go figure.
Can you provide links to back that sweeping statement up, Emily?
What a hero. Always knows what to do.
Other have been “urging” the Taoiseach to finally do something about the legislation. I guess the urge was not so great then but to urge the husband is of utmost importance, even though he has the right to feel betrayed by HSE and cooperates with the gardai. Do your own job Taoiseach, don’t bully victim’s families.
You’re out of your depth, Enda.
What is a public enquiry going to bring that a proper medical enquiry won’t bring faster?
This woman died of septic shock, it’s a relatively simple COD, there are limited ways it can be contracted, this investigation has (a) been blown out of proportion and (b) a fairly simple remit.
Mr Praveen should meet with the chair of this enquiry, but I’m not sure if the legal advice is portraying this.
@James a public inquiry will bring transparency, it will allow for the cross examination of witnesses. But the Irish Medical Council don’t like transparency , these senior consultants believe they have the sole right to investigate their own and it’s been that way for a long time
@James a public inquiry will bring transparency, it will allow for the cross examination of witnesses. But the Irish Medical Council don’t like transparency , these senior consultants believe they have the sole right to investigate their own and it’s been that way for a long time
The chair of inquiry has nothing to do with IMC first of all. Second of all, the IMC is transparent, it has to be. Thirdly, I’m not entirely sure that the IMC has a standing in this (I could be wrong, but as they would be obliged to host any fitness to practice trials that might arise they wouldn’t be allowed hold this enquiry, my impression is its HSE hosting).
@Derek Have you heard of HIQA? They are completely independent and the enquiry should be passed to them. They do a fantastic job in ivestigating deaths and other health queries in hospitals in Ireland.
Because of “The Bias of the Interpreter, Not the Facts of the Case” factor in Irish/Anglo Irish media nobody can believe anything anymore Not a very healthy state to be in.
Adebayo, are you one of the Flynns from Mullingar?
No, Ballymahon, but I believe there are a few from the mothers side around the Gar.
Sound out,
Adebayo
Praveen Hallapannavar is perfectly right and justified . I respect his decision to defend his wife and to find out excatly what happened .
Kenny on the other hand is being so wrong , and clueless and his comments show him to be patronising and insensitive to Praveen’s loss.
I support Praveen in this .
I find the husband behavior unreasonable, while this is understandable because of grief it should not be allowed cloud the issue. the behavior of this couple has been strange from the outset as far as I can see. rather than let the doctors do their job, they seem to have been obsessed with demanding an abortion and trying to decide what treatment should be administered to the sick woman. I think if I was in the same position I would let the doctors decide what the best course of action is instead of trying to impose a solution on them. This point seems to have been totally missed.
Now we come to the inquiry, we have the same attempt by the husband to impose the solution, decide the panel and likely outcome himself rather than letting the experts investigate without interference.
The doctors did decide what the best course of action was……..and they got it wrong. I fully agree with the husband. There should be a public inquiry with all witnesses under oath.
“The behaviour of this couple has been strange from the outset” – how is that exactly? They asked for medical treatment to end her suffering, this was refused and she then died.
Why should she have a treatment imposed on her by doctors, when with all other medical situations patients are offered a choice of treatment? In no other medical cases are treatments withheld or imposed without the consent of the patient – pregnancy should be no different.
They seem to have gone to the hospital with a fixed view on what treatment she needed. If I was ill in hospital, I would let the doctor decide and not be annoying them with my non professional medical views.
The doctors may well have got it wrong but of course there will be human error in medicine, it is a complex business. At this stage we don’t know if they made an error or would it have made a difference.
‘They seem to have gone to the hospital with a fixed view on what treatment she needed’
Way to read the facts there mate. Savita Halappanavar went into the hospital with back pain. She was then told she was miscarrying. She then waited in agony for hours, at which point she asked for a D&C – standard procedure in this sort of case. She was refused. This carried on for a couple more days. She had no choice but to ‘let the doctors decide what the best course of action is’ and – it appears – she died as a result of their decision.
As you would have, had you been in the same situation in Ireland.
Think about the past mistakes, the current shambles and Enda Kenny’s risible performance in the dail today. Then remember that this is the person in charge negotiating Ireland’s perilous financial position now and for a generation to come. http://www.ottosbunker.com
I had a glance at your propoganda website… says a lot about you.
there often inquiries into deaths at hospitals. is it only because it may be abortion related that special public inquiry is being demanded. wouldn’t have been fair to the other deceased people then
Ireland is a democracy, so if they have a referendum for abortion, would people be satisfied with results regardless of outcomes?
Do you homework before commenting on something you know nothing about, Hsianloon, please.
Oh Im sorry you must be one of those people who are experts in 10 different fields, i beg your pardon
I am sick of Kenny and his claims and his lies. Again I am saying ” never tryst a liar. And Kenny Is. A Proven Liar”
enda should be ashamed of himself, on tv, telling her husband to comply,, his sicker than i thought no leadership skills what so ever, and yes i voted him in, thinking he would make changes,, fat chance, another leech lining his pockets, hiqua should have been bought in for investigation def not hse,, think they thought they may get away with it, fare plays to your man for sticking to his guns, either truth or nothing, a fair investigation is not alot to ask for,,
This man has made very serious allegations. If his legal team have decided that he will not coperate with an enquiry he will lose all credibility.
I can see why legal teams like full public enquiries they last forever and there is no stop to the costs .
Public sympathy will start fading for him fairly quickly If he now decides to play a different ball .
Excuse me? How will HE lose credibility??? His experience with the HSE has meant that he has lost confidence in them. Why would he cooperate with an enquiry lead by them? If it were a member of your family who died, would you be happy to have the same authorities investigate?
He probably has the report of the enquiry already and needs the enquiry to proceed so he can publish them.
His legal team have there eye on compensation down the line and thats why he wont cooperate wih this enquiry. Surely if he wanted to find truth and justice he would assist in an independant enquiry but no
Mr Halappanavar will be a multimillionaire after all his. His legal team are shrewd by not playin ball. If he wanted truth and justice he would assist with an investigation
A young woman has died in circumstances that must be clarified. Despite the emotion of the issue the central characters should cooperate. This inquiry should be led by the Gardai and put an end to the unseemly exploitation of a young woman’s tragic death.
This man has made very serious allegations. If his legal team have decided that he will not coperate with an enquiry he will lose all credibility.
I can see why legal teams like full public enquiries they last forever and there is no stop to the costs .
Public sympathy will start fading for him fairly quickly If he now decides to play a different ball .
I want answers, I think the Taoiseach is ignoring what we’ve asked from him…
In what way, Sarah? I’m no fan of our dear leader, but he’s pressing for a expeditious inquiry into what happened. That’s as much as he can do. If you’re talking about an independent inquiry then you need to look elsewhere for someone to blame for not demanding one… because it ain’t gonna be independent if the government are the ones commissioning it.
Maybe if the initial investigation hadn’t included the three Galway consultants this man would have agreed to it. Why 3 from the same hospital ?
@lauramaeve first of all nothing remotely racist by what I said and secondly I was speculating on a possible scenario. Similar to what you and everyone else is doing. But the way you are pontificating on here you would think you knew all. Lets just see what conclusionsthe enquiry in whatever form it takes reaches. Until then speculation and opinion will continue by people like us. Oh and trust me I am far from thick..
Has anyone else received a pro-life phone call? It was a voice recording of someone claiming to be a doctor in Galway.
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