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ROMAN CATHOLIC BISHOPS failed to reach a consensus on opening the Church’s doors to remarried divorcees and gays after a special synod on the family, in a blow to Pope Francis.
Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said participants had approved a “re-balanced” final report that took into account the concerns of the most conservative members.
In a final vote after two weeks of fierce debate, three paragraphs touching on the hot-button issues of a more welcome stance towards gays, and allowing divorced and remarried Catholics to receive communion, did not get the two-thirds majority needed from the 183 bishops present.
The vote closed a synod of bishops from around the world which has seen conservatives clash publicly with liberals over a drive spearheaded by the pope to soften the Church’s approach to sinners.
Addressing the synod, Francis, 77, said he was confident the coming year would allow for ideas to mature and “find concrete solutions” to the many challenges facing the Church.
The full document, including the contentious paragraphs, was published at the pope’s request.
The spiritual leader of the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics had earlier called for the Church to take a more merciful approach to unmarried mothers, remarried divorcees and gays, famously saying of homosexuals, “Who am I to judge?”
Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn told reporters that the adopted text was “much more reserved” than the draft document, reflecting opposition from bishops from “very different cultural situations”.
A preliminary report on Monday, widely reported in Italian media, made waves around the world by suggesting that the Church should reach out to homosexuals, who have “gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community”, outraging traditionalists who had to be reminded by the Vatican that it was a work in progress.
In the media glare, the synod took on the proportions of a referendum on the pope’s audacious line, and observers said the early reports may have backfired on progressives seeking to steal a march on conservatives.
Another report Thursday summed up the reactions of 10 working groups of bishops, which mixed declarations of respect for homosexuals with fierce insistence that any opening up to sinners would imply the Church condoned their behaviour.
The vote’s outcome reflects the attitude of the top echelons of the Church towards reform — and ultimately towards Francis’s rule, which has been coloured since his election in March 2013 by a determination to show the more humane side of the centuries-old institution.
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Maybe I’m over-simplifying it, but he could issue an ex cathedra declaration, invoking papal infallibility and get this done. He’s trying to bring the church into the 20th century (21st century is a bit of a stretch yet) It’s just a pity that the church is still full of conservative old men.
He must also promote a few of the liberals to Cardinal posts at his next consistory, to assure a liberal takes over when “they get him”!
Fair play to him if he wants to be a persuader rather than a dictator
So, this is really all about politics and shag all to do with any God!
Not a fan of the Catholic church, or religion in general. But as far as popes go, I can see that thew new pope is at least making an effort to break from old and archaic ideas, and bring the Church into the 21st century. Alas, it’s probably a losing battle as he is only one man in the midst of thousands of ultra-conservative bishops, priests and cardinals.
Could we see a coup in the Vatican? Hardliners overthrow a liberal Pope. Would be fun to watch
Coups in the Vatican are carried out by poison.
Totally disillusioned once again – what is wrong with the church? Murder, wife beating, pediphilia – all ok – of course you can have communion
Divorcee, homosexual, sex outside marriage – no way can you have communion
Jesus Christ understood what was right & wrong
The synod of bishops does not and WILL not
We should all pray for Pope Francis to be given a long and fruitful life where by frequent revisits to these “teachings” he will reverse the bishops warped and damaging “rules”!
The Pope had the power to overrule them now. But he chooses not too. He’s no different to the Bishops you are complaining about.
I wouldnt worry Pope Francis. You’ll find a way.
Things are changing for sure. In the summer of this year in our Diocese our Bishop wanted to train Deacons to help out with the shortage of priests. Except the offer applied to married and single MALES ONLY. The cheek! He didnt realise the backlash he would get from the women of the Diocese. And most of the priests backed the women. The Bishop was told where to stick his Diaconate and he withdrew it.
The fact is most priests like this new Pope. Its some fuddy duddy Bishops in their ivory towers that are causing the problems who havent a clue whats going on.
I have full confidence in Pope Francis that he will sort them out.
Given a chance to possibly, and only possibly, save the institution they represent, they reject it. Great bunch of lads! Another nail in the coffin
They should remember their own mantra, “let him without sin throw the first stone”
The so called teachings of the Catholic Church are far too out dated along with it’s teachers, i.e the bishops and cardinals. I would prefer to listen to the stories a person who has experienced life, who got knocked down, rejected, made mistakes but who did their best to be a good person, friend or colleague.
Thats a teaching from Jesus, not the CC – try not to confuse the teachings from the two as they are known to be conflicting alot of the time.
How?
As has often been pointed out, if gays were banned from the church, most of the Vatican would empty.
He is now universally hated by the conservative wing now which is in his favor I hope.
The bachelor boys are being rather precious about who plays with their toys. If a divorced Catholic wishes to receive Holy Communion all he, or she, has to do is to present themselves. Ignore the voodoo of the bachelors and treat them with the contempt that they deserve.
Surely that defeats the purpose. It’s easy for anybody to present themselves at mass and receive communion, but you would know and God would know and that whole spiritual, one on one connection would be a sham. No true believer could do that, it would be a pointless act.
No, if you’re a believer, then just cut out the psychology-babble of the middle man. It’s all just ostentatious showy, dressy-up theatre anyway. So, if you like the theatrics of it all and want to participate, just go for it!
You are presumably talking about Christian believers not RC believers, there is no way a devout RC would go against the teachings of the church’ I have known people to suffer mental torture because they had done something, e.g. used contraceptives, which they thought disqualified them from receiving communion. Receiving without the blessing of the church would not have entered their minds.
They sound like damaged people to me. Tell them to talk to their GP or a dragon whose gossamer wings, when extended, form a shape reminiscent of the fifth truth of Heraldian Spuffidnessity. No need for them to suffer in silence.
Who are they to judge? Makes my blood boil!
They are judging on their own beliefs, although outdated, are entitled to them. Fortunately the age of these outdated beliefs is dying off with bishops the represent them
Your Catholic Church will self destroy itself in 5..4..3…
Wow! The holy joes are up early this morning…Then again it is Sunday. Let’s be realistic folks, the church is diminishing greatly in this country with it’s archaic and outdated laws. The Pope is trying to save it by introducing liberal ideas and the puritans (like yourselves) shun them? This is only going to end up with one result.
Are you talking to yourself?
Of course you are getting red thumbs. Never underestimate how much catholics hate gay people. A bunch of bitter hypocrites.
Addressing the biblical red thumb brigade…
The Pope is doing a good job but these Bishops cannot live with the fact that they have lived there whole careers giving bad sermons and advice to there parishioners
Ironic how the word catholic means ‘all embracing’ while the Catholic Church appears to be turning so many away needlessly.
A murderer, rapist, abuser etc. can repent of their sins and be offered communion but a woman who is in a perfectly healthy, loving relationship with another woman is treated as a leper (no, wait…they’d cure the leper and then let him in…will they try to ‘cure’ gay people?)
I always believed that the people are the church not a bunch of men with purple hats and bling bling rings. Finally we have a pope who wants to include everyone and bishops reject it. Love between 2 people is a gift given from GOD which man can’t break
As Mahatma Gandhi had put it “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
I think it will take another generation or two for things to evolve in the church, but possibly by then it might be too late for them. joining the priesthood is no longer an attractive lifestyle choice in developed countries they need to change to survive, it’s their loss really
“Us guys in dresses do not like the gays”
Most of them are so far in the closet
they are living in Narnia
If Jesus Christ was around today
this shower would not let him join their club
Just when you think they might be capable of change
I have to agree. It’s no use trying to separate out the sexual abuse issue . The facts are they not only failed to judge their own by the same standard they hold everyone else to. They failed in their duty to protect children from sexual physical and psychological abuse and they shielded and aided and abetted criminals. Now as an institution they are saying that the loves and lives of ordinary people are somehow immoral and unworthy ? It’s a joke. The Catholic church as a whole has proven they are not in a position to judge anyone. No matter how much of a PR job Francis is on ( and in general I always had a bit of respect for Jesuits ) the church can’t take back their appalling actions and no longer hold the moral high ground on anything .
Ok the comment I was replying to has been removed . I’m not sure why as if it was because it addressed the churches sexual abuse scandal then I suppose my comment will go too.
Good point on it’s own.
There seems to be some sort of a yearning by alot of people here for the church to move into the 21st century. Why? I’m sure most commenators here (including myself) are not practicing catholics so why not let them do their thing and everyone else do their own thing. Lets face it in 50 years time the church will have died out in Ireland so why is everyone here getting so excited.
This will have to go upstairs…
Some bunch of queer thinking fellas altogether…
Despite his so called liberal agenda you can still see how he thinks when he asks the church to embrace unmarried mothers but apparently unmarried fathers are okey dokey? Nonsense!! ,
I think my own personal view,there wasnt any money thrown at them or helpless children!!! Bunch of hypocrictical tw@t$ i do belive in this pope thou, seems to have his head screwed on and any way how can the bishops decide on that when there never meant to b married? Or fall in love so how can they judge on something they have never experinced in day to day life?
A bunch of bishops sitting around denouncing gay people from being welcomed into the church feels like the women in Life of Brian wearing false beards and claiming to be men.
They follow rules ,footballers follow rules ,golfers follow rules ,if you are a member you follow the rules , do all footballers keep them. No ,do all golfer,s keep them .No ,there are good and bad members
I’d say if Jesus came back, he’d throw the lot of them out on their ear with the exception of Francis I think.
in hindsight he wouldn’t bother his bollix starting it.
Jesus did not start the Church, indeed St. Peter, the man whom he reputedly selected to head up his church, had no intention of taking the movement out of Palestine or extending it to anybody but Jews. Jesus after all, was the Messiah, the man sent to deliver Jews from persecution.
The fact that the Christian movement spread worldwide was down to fluke and circumstance, although naturally, the rabid religious will say this was preordained but it has always remained a mystery to me how an omnipotent God, who had no problem showing his power by having one man destroy an entire army with an ass’s jawbone, would suddenly have to resort to subterfuge to get his way.
Fluke and circumstance, with a side of brute force and a hint of Catholic shaming.
How does one go about leaving this organisation?
I’m just done done done with these people.
F@&k this shit.
Hide paedophiles, forced adoption, abuse left right and centre and completely out of touch with the realities of the modern world. It’s an absolute outrage and I’ve had enough!
You used to be able to defect using countmeout.ie – I did it several years ago. Unfortunately the irish RCC panicked when they saw how many people were leaving, and closed that particular loophole.
Your only option now to stop them from counting you as one of them is to get excommunicated. Maybe you could write to your bishop confessing to some terrible excommunicable sin? ;)
Technically this is a breach of our constitutional rights. We habe the right to join and leave groups. Hardly surprising that the church breach our rights and get away with it
And be moved to another parish !
There is nothing stopping you leaving apart from your own [brainwashed, without your consent, from an early age] sense of right and wrong in the matter. To leave, simply stop attending any services, return unused donation envelopes and any other paraphernalia, stop referring to clergy by their titles [let's face it, they really aren't your father or sister]. Job done. No explanation required. To anyone.
Smiley, for years that was enough for me, until I was told that I would still be counted as a baptised catholic. The church counts every member it possibly can, and uses those numbers to defend its monopoly in irish society; that’s why we’re constantly being told that 80%+ of irish people are Catholic when the numbers attending Catholic masses are nowhere near that. They can’t count me now, and I’m bloody happy about that.
Jane, if you we’re baptised there will be a record of it that is permanent. You can defect as I have explained, just because you have been baptised does not mean they can count you as catholic.
But they do deerhound. They count me as a catholic and it wrecks my head
Ailbhe, formally defect from the Catholic Church. I presume you we’re baptised just as I was. That is just a record of fact. I am not counted as a member after defection. You can’t change the fact that you were baptised just as you can’t change the fact that you ate in the last few days . It means nothing.
I know a few gay guys. I’m not religious myself, but all of these guys feel so shunned by the church that they’re hardly going to turn around and become priests even if they were allowed! Not sure if this is a common thing, but if so, then allowing gay people in is not going to save the church. Albeit the right thing to do!
It’s not going to save the church, but it might disarm those that use religion as a reason to deny LGBT rights or use it to discriminate.
It is ludicrous how scientifically illiterate people need to be to still believe in religion in 2014.
Gays, given their advanced state of self-determination, are contradicting their forward-mindedness in wanting to be members of this irrelevant organisation built on fabricated fantasy and primitive superstition. What’s the point? It’s all just illogical nonsense anyway.
We’ll be arguing about gender equality for santa’s helpers next.
I pray to god day and night, I have to say the institution of the church, is nothing but an institution of bachelors that are so far disconnected from this world. These bishops,cardinals, priests are just social regects who live in there own little cocoon. They are the same as politicans worldwide they dont listen the people theyre suppose to represent.
Not sure that change or modernisation would save the church. The most successful religions seem to be the most conservative eg islam etc. A huge proportion would not want change as this synod shows
I think you have a point there. I heard the late Richard Harris speak many years ago on the late late . He said that he would rather be a bad Catholic than have the Catholic church change. This was before all the scandals came to light though. Many people like the consistency of a religion. They don’t want one that bends and changes to easily . That said it has gone through big changes in the past that religions like Islam have not .
He’s not going to criticize them as it’s against Catholic law to bash the bishop……..
Paulie
That is beyond funny! I’m still cracking up! Brilliant!!!
I don’t understand why people are surprised by this and why they think this is a blow to pope Francis! This guy when, when running his own fiefdom in Buenos Aries, never extended his hand to Catholic gays, divorced Catholics or to women either. His experience with child abuse by clerics in his fiefdom is very interesting because no cleric under his authority abused any children while he was head-honcho in Buenos Aries.
I remain cynical about this Pope. To paraphrase Shakespeare, ” Methinks the gentlemen doth protest too much”
I still think he’s portrayed as the good guy, constrained by convention from being the new Messiah, purely for PR purposes.
If it’s one thing the RC church is good at, it’s doubletalk.
Absolutely correct. End of story.
LGBT rights, abortion, sex before marriage… Why is the sky fairy so important in these matters? Disband the Catholic Church and denounce all religion as hokum and everything is well in the world again. Seriously, why does the word of a barbaric, sexist, homophobic band of conservative arseholes mean anything to anyone? What does religion promise? An afterlife? Start living for now you bunch of brainwashed idiots!
Does anyone really care anymore about what a bunch of old men in dresses think.They are well past their sell by date.It would be a good idea if they got their own house in order first
No surprise there then !.
Why anyone would want to follow and be part of this organisation is beyond me.
My mum still hasn’t forgiven them for having to be ‘churched’ after the birth of my elder brother, where both her and the baby nearly died (actually my brother did die, only the midwife resuscitated him) yet they were damn fast at administering the last rites to her – she wasn’t ‘unclean’ then, that was 1956, rural Ireland.
If you have a desire to follow a deity, follow them in your own way.
Francis knew well what the vote would be a long time before he was put there by his puppet masters. Don’t be an idiot and think the church would change.
It never will so if you don’t like it write a letter to A. B Diarmuid Martins Dublin office and tell him you want to defect from Catholicism and you will get a letter after a couple of weeks accepting your defection and will no longer be counted amongst its numbers.
Done it a few years ago and am thrilled.
Hahahahaha hahahahahahhahahaahhaahahhahaahhahhahahhaahhahhaahhahhahahaha! Don’t you just love the Catholic Church!……..NOT!!
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