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LAST UPDATE | 18 Jan
CEANN COMHAIRLE VERONA Murphy has been advised that Independent TDs who support the government yet want to be part of an opposition grouping can do so.
The Dáil’s Business Committee, which is responsible for dealing with items of Dáil business including speaking rights, met on Thursday to consider the issue.
In a letter issued to TDs night from the Ceann Comhairle, Murphy noted that at Thursday’s meeting, “there was extensive discussion on the Standing Orders governing technical groups in the context of some members of one technical group having publicly undertaken to support the Government”.
At this committee meeting, members of the Regional Independents group said they wanted to create an opposition technical group despite some of its members pledging to support the potential new coalition.
A technical group must have five or more TDs to qualify for Dáil speaking rights.
Such speaking rights include the ability to raise issues with the Taoiseach during Leaders’ Questions, something not available to Government backbench TDs or independent TDs who are not part of a technical group.
However, some members of the Regional Independents group are set to become superior junior ministers or junior ministers and therefore cannot be part of an opposition technical group.
Independent TD Michael Lowry, who will support the government, outlined the proposal at the Business Committee meeting on Thursday.
Other TDs who have publicly stated they will be supporting the incoming Government are also part of the Regional Independents group include Gillian Toole, Danny Healy-Rae and Barry Heneghan.
It is argued that they can be part of a technical group and enjoy Dáil speaking rights because they are not formally part of the government.
The group will also include Independent Carol Nolan and Aontú members Peadar Tóibín and Paul Lawless, who are all members of the opposition.
In the letter issued last night, Ceann Comhairle Verona Murphy said she had been advised that Independent TDs who have agreed to support the government but are not Ministers or Ministers of state are “eligible to be part of a technical group”.
The letter added: “I am advised that there is long standing precedent to support this position.
“One need only recall the many non-party members that openly supported previous governments and were part of technical groups without objection.
“In 2016 the Fianna Fáil party entered into a Confidence and Supply agreement to support the Fine Gael government and was still considered the main opposition party.”
Murphy added that an amendment would be required to bar such Independent TDs from a technical group and that she has “neither autonomy nor jurisdiction to unilaterally amend them”.
The Ceann Comhairle said members who do not agree with the advice she has received must make a submission to her “by close of business on 22 January, outlining whatever alternative process they believe should be applied”.
“Further to receiving any submission, I will carefully consider the points raised and take any necessary further advice from the Office of Parliamentary Legal Advisers,” said Murphy.
Murphy herself is a member of the Regional Independents group and added that she is “very anxious to ensure that this matter is considered thoroughly and transparently”.
Marian Harkin is a member of the Regional Independent group but because she is due to take up a junior ministerial role, she cannot be part of the opposition technical group.
Speaking today to RTÉ, she described the issue as “evolving” and remarked that the Ceann Comhairle is “acting without fear or favour”.
“It’s very difficult to know exactly how it is going to work, but each of them were elected as independent TDs.
“They will not be part of government, they will not have influence on government decisions as part of government.”
Harkin said “we should be able to find a solution to this unique situation that has presented itself” and remarked that the Ceann Comhairle is acting on “precedent”.
Meanwhile, it’s understood that Barry Heneghan, who is due to support the government but sit on the opposition benches, could be in line to become an assistant government whip.
Harkin said it is her “understanding that Barry’s role will be assistant whip, but assistant whip of the regional technical group” and that “it’s not a government role”.
When asked if members of the regional technical group will have privileged access to the National Development Plan, Harkin replied: “How privileged it will be remains to be seen.”
She added: “This a new situation, and clarity is not always easy in a situation like that and my understanding, and it may be flawed, is that there is access to the review of the NDP.
“How that impacts on what is happening now and on any new grouping has to be worked out, and it’s the standing orders of the Dáil that will decide on that.”
Fine Gael is holding a series of regional meetings over the coming days and speaking prior to the first meeting last night, Taoiseach Simon Harris said the “issue of where people sit in Dáil needs a bit of clarification and thought”.
“I think if groups are in government, we need to look and see how the Dáil rules can accommodate that as well, and no doubt the Ceann Comhairle will make a decision on it,” said Harris.
He added: “The Regional Independents are a group in the Dáil, that’s their right.
“My understanding is there are members of that group who won’t be in the government.
“There’ll be some regional independents who’ll hold ministerial office, there’ll be other regional independents who will not hold ministerial office.
“This issue can be resolved, and the person who is in a position to resolve it is the Ceann Comhairle.”
Harris further remarked that it is the “Ceann Comhairle who runs the Dáil, not the government” and that he had “no doubt she will look at this issue in a way that works for everyone”.
Speaking earlier in the week, People Before Profit TD Paul Murphy described it as a “bizarre proposal that would undermine the capacity and effectiveness of the opposition in the Dáil”.
Sinn Féin TD Pádraig Mac Lochlainn has also been railing against the situation and said: “Michael Lowry stated that his group of Independent TDs would ‘support the next government on the good days and the bad days’, and now he and two other of those TDs want to be part of a Dáil Group in opposition to the government. You couldn’t make this up.”
Labour’s Duncan Smith also criticised the proposal, saying “it absolutely beggars belief”.
He said the Regional Independent Group members want to “run with the hare and hunt with the hound”.
-With additional reporting from David MacRedmond
Bertie. Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect £200.
Bertie would still get the 200 no matter what….
How are there thumbs down to this comment?? Are people so stupid that they don’t realize at this stage he was one of the main architects of this countries demise??? The man was and still is one of the best paid criminals in Irish history
…Aided of course by the Drumcondra Mafia – look it up folks, its WELL known and reported on in the media and even has a book about them!
Bertie owns the Jail.
Bertie should be IN jail!!!
Sure, his biggest disappointment on leaving office was that he “didn’t get the Bertie bowl built”, The arrogance of the man knows no bounds.
I’d love for him to run for president so that we could all NOT vote for him – I doubt however his ego will let him truly realise how despised he is.
What planet is that gobshite living on ?
Planet Bertiewood!
Scratch that, la la land!
Good man Bertie, still living in La-la land.
Ah! DO RUN please Bertie ?
We would love you to showcase your delusions, with the lowest vote in the history of the Presidency for a FF Candidate!
So just to clarify "Bertie brown envelope i cant really recall that sure it was only a couple of grand sterling I really would of liked a presidential pension Ahern" thinks he would of become president if it hadn’t been for one or two little things like tribunals, f/f total destruction of our economy by there cosying up to bankers, builders and unions, by there jobs for the boys culture and basically not being able to see the wood through the trees. Yeah I think he’s spot on he would of become president and if my aunt had balls shed be my uncle!
There’s a large percentage of the Dublin 9 area who stil think the man poos rosary beads. Outside there he wouldn’t do so well.
His dirtbag brother only got 9% in the locals in 2009 and 12% in the By-election in 2009. At a time when not as many people had seen through the criminal conspiracy that is FF as have now.
Well that’s the Kiss of Death for poor Gay Mitchell anyway.
I’m pretty sure Bertie is bi-polar, or some other psychological disorder which allows him to completely disconnect from reality. He is THE reason Fianna Fáils’ popularity “when south”, and still he comes out with this blather. He should be facing the same plight as Gaddafi/Qaddahfi/Gaddafy.
Good one Brian,
Thats the one thing that popped out at me.. Good friend of Gay Mitchell, eh?
Well Gay, thats one less vote you’ll be gettin..
What a way to take out Gay Mitchell!! Bertie you still got it!
Heh, I was thinking the same thing.
Ah name sake of your had something to do with FF’s popularity heading south, along with our economy and tax funds for the next generation.
One can only laugh at his lack of any attachment to the voting public. How can he think himself perfect for the role when he has been the worst taoiseach on record
with the exception of Biffo of course!
I think he was worse than Biffo. Biffo was his lapdog and wasn’t fit to be a TD, not to mind Taoiseach. He was ill equipped to deal with the responsibility he was given, and resorted to letting himself be led, and hopping into a pint glass and playing chieftain and comedian to a host of yes men in Farmleigh and hotel bars up and down the country at every opportunity. Such is the mindset within Fianna Fail, party above all.
Bertie had a sleveen guile to him, and knew exactly what he was doing.
should be getting jail time not air time ! treacherous gobshite !
The little bollocks !!!
Go To hell Bertie you scumbag, You destroyed our sovereignty
“Well I think if the party popularity didn’t go South, I mean I still would have done alright,” he said.
Did Bertie ever perhaps consider the fact that the party’s popularity went South because of HIM. Him, his corruption and his Drumcondra Mafia?
He’s already said elsewhere that the party was grand when he left office! At this point I feel sorry for the man. He’s obviously got a mental condition!
Yeah, I mean, for honest Fianna Fáilers like myself & others (we do exist!) I’m gonna be getting spit on at the doorsteps for long time BECAUSE of him!
Think people tend to forget that he fucked over Fianna Fáil before he ever fucked over the country!
@ P.A..W FF FUCKED THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IN ALL THE BULLSHITTERS THAT CAME BEFORE AND AFTER BERTIE AHEARN BERTIE IS JUST A FF MANUFACTURED DUMMY
He was the same as a very long list of FF’ers over the last 35 years. How any decent person could be a member of them baffles me. I genuinely believe it to be impossible. Most FF’ers I have ever met are on the make, that is the whole reason the party is hated. Ahern is especially hated but he is reflective of FF’s political ethos and culture. How ye went from the type of TD and cllr now from the likes of Séan Moylan and Séan LeMass is stunning.
@ Paul; you make it sound as if boning Fianna Fail is a bigger affront to you than screwing the country.
Just saying.
To paraphrase ‘if I wasn’t a corrupt politician or have face planted the country into an economic disaster zone I could have been the king’
Bertie has to Irelands answer to ‘chemical Ali’.
Away with the fairies.
Lock that man up, he’s a danger to others if he’s that bleeding delusional
He can comment away and laugh as us fools for paying him his 125k per year and his expenses and his God knows what else.
So if people hadn’t realized he was a total scumbag, he believes he would have been in with a chance…..
genius
Unbelievable, the man is still in denial. It wasn’t me it was the collapse of Lehman Brothers.
This man will probably go down in Irish history more hated than Cromwell.
And I will bet that Gay Mitchell will love to hear that he has Bertie’s endorsement. That knocked a few more percent off Gay’s vote.
The cocky prick. Its in jail he should be.
That clown has lost the run of himself altogether.
ha ha ha ha the dope
What a plonker!!
LOL
this man needs to have his head checked,he is a parasite and he should be in prison
What an árashole
THAT MAN BELIEVE,S HE CAN WALK ON WATER ID WISH THE FUCK HE TRY IT IN THE DEEPEST PART OF THE ATLANTIC OCEAN
Grrr…. hes gettin a bit owld for the puppy dog looks now… I’d prefer to keep him outside the house if he thinks he can continue pissing where he pleases!!
brill comment made me burst out laughing…….
brill comment
@modern. LMAO. Really. What an image it conjures up!
how did we ever vote for him to run our country – he is deluded, corrupt and a symbol of how we have ended up in the worst economic crisis after the Great Famine in our history. He should just disappear quietly having claimed nearly €250K expenses sinc he left the Dail – my taxes on his phone bill – seriously!?!
Icarus may well have observed the same thing about his ability to fly as he plummeted toward earth, “Well, if it hadn’t been for the heat of the sun…”
Bertie Ahearn is not delusional. You have to remember Bertie is a genuine gangster. A gangster believes they can do no wrong as it’s always someone else’s fault – "if it wasn’t for the hassles of the tribunals". Brilliant quote. This sums it up. Nothing worse to hinder a persons career than being asked to explain your dishonesty.
Lets just put Jedward up for the job they would do a better job…..
As a member of FF I really think BB is cracked if he even thought that he would get 10% – polls or no polls. FF are deluded if they even believe the polls are that good. I think it is the pollsters that are trying to impress FF for some reason. They have a lot of contrition to offer like the Catholic Church had to do. The party would be wise to come out and purge itself. And then help in reforming our economy and overpaid under performing civil service.
You have some neck telling decent people want should be done. Reform our economy – your a member of FF. Why should we believe that you give one toss about our economy or country or the Irish people. Why?
As for overpaid under performing, you are the party of overpaid and under performing.
Wouldn’t you get a bit of pride in your country and self, leave FF. Getting the bit of tarmac on the road is never worth it.
Contrition is one thing, Michael. At least the church can fall back on the many priests who did and continue to do, good work. And I say that as one of the church’s biggest critics on here.
By contrast, every FF’er I’ve come across has managed to dirty their bib in some way, some to greater effect than others. It’s not contrition that’s needed there, it’s consignment to history, with the hope that we as a country learn the lessons we need to, from that.
I want to help you Bert, ya olde scallywag.
Barry Lenihan is also a researcher with the David Harvey Show on 4FM – and he’s on there now talking about this.
One too many and you might turn Bertie!!! What a tool!
TO AUTHOR SINEAD O CARROLL PLEASE POST THIS THREAD TO THAT DELUSIONAL FOOL
Derek,
Your chewing gum seems to have stuck on the shift or the CAPS Keys.
Was this all a very clever way to get Mitchell out of the running? Anger people more with delusional self-promotion then drop Mitchell’s name in…or is he that stupid? Considering how much he’s gotten away with the man is either a secret evil genius posing as a bumbling idiot…or possibly just a jammy gobshite…I really don’t know at this stage!
Still, it conjures up a great image.
Mitchell – a Waffler – a right wing homophobic religious zealout
Bertie – a Bullshitter – who indemnified the Church against the financial fallout from Paedophile Priests
Picture them both in Finnegan’s having pints at the taxpayers expense in their golden years.
A pair of Gombeen Men.
_________________________________
Write “David Norris” On The Ballot Sheet
Mark An “X” Beside His Name
Send Them A Message
The feckin’ ejit is so far detached from reality, if he admitted his role in the down fall of not only FF but the country how could he look in the mirror each day? He needs a check up from the neck up-Mr Teflon still suits him!
FF backed Bertie to the hilt. Cowen, Lenihan, Martin etc etc all the way down to the lowest party level were all mad about de Bert. When the truth became known about him, it did not change their views of him. Same way they had no trouble with Haughey. People stopped joining FF for political reasons in the 60′s, it became an Irish Freemasons with a strong criminal culture after that. Bertie didn’t ruin FF, he is FF. He is their avatar, their beating heart and his ethics and morals are the morals of de Party since the mid 70′s. Séan Lemass, our finest Taoiseach warned against the likes of Haughey, Des o’Malley etc, political carpet baggers who had no interest in serving the nation of the people. Bertie perfectly represents FF and they him.
All true, Tony. Anyone who joins Fianna Fail is either a) delusional, b) criminal but definitely not c) ideological. Cancerous.
Completely deluded.What kind of a bubble does this fella live in?!
One paid for by us….
‘I think it would have been [the perfect job for me] in the normal case of events’
Case? Did he really say Case?
Another Case of Bertie upsettin’ the apple tart of the English language. Par for the Course. Of Course.
Don’t think any of us will ever truly understand what life is like on Planet Bertie.
This is known as The Kiss of Death for Mitchell
========================================
Backing Mitchell
The former Taoiseach said he believes Fine Gael’s candidate Gay Mitchell will top the polls.
“I’d say Mitchell definitely has it,” he told Linehan. ”He’s a good friend of mine, we get on well.”
========================================
Is this the same Bertie quoted here -
‘…[Aherne's] dismissal of Gay Mitchell has become the stuff of Dail legend — even though it happened as long ago as 1994. “If you stop waffling we might get some work done,” he told him. “You’re a waffler. You’ve been years around here, waffling.” …’
_________________________________
Write “David Norris” On The Ballot Sheet
Mark An “X” Beside His Name
Send Them A Message
But I didnt ever want Norris as president…?
Wudda Cudda Shudda!!! Delusions Bertie!!
Ah come on lads, sure he was after all, “a fella you could have a drink down the pub with” ………
narcissistic personality disorder to a tee, the definitiion of this condition and its advice to onlookers is a good read…nothing can be done for these people…walk away…they dangerous.
i agree…has anyone asked the question and demanded an answer,what the hell would he need TWO secretaries for? and if he has TWO how many has Enda, these are the sort of questions that need to concentrate the mind now, not blasting off Bertie, he is not worth this effort or input, find out where the money is going and why
if you mean you would have come last…then yeah bertie you greedy pri*k you would have ‘done alright”
Poor Bertie. Perhaps someone should make a film about it: http://youtu.be/xNzBgR0UoYo
And if my auntie had balls, she’d be my uncle.
Makes me think of Bertie doing a Brando impression like in “On the waterfront” with Haughey. ” I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let’s face it. It was you, Charley”
Dear Bertie. Conor Lenihan is in Russia. Is there any chance you might relocate to sunnier climes? Libya springs to mind…
Are we surprised? This is the man who said his biggest regret was that he didn’t get the Bertie Bowl built… Hilarious
What did Bertie do,did i miss something again?…Hic…
Never mind that Brian, give us an oul song there ;)
A jasus Ryan your twisting me liver,me brian,if i was not a pro i would be puking me vodka.I will be having daymares for months now.Hic!…
While he would have no chance of being elected I do believe he would poll stronger than people would expect. The right campaign management and he is "the man of the people who brought peace to Northern Ireland". Politics is very fickle, look at America less than four years after rejecting the relatively centre right wing politics(centre right by American standards) of McCain the Americans are showing support for someone is further right-wing. I do not support Bertie nor would I vote for him but I still say he would finish ahead of either of the independents.
Thanks for that.
If the world said black, you’d say white, eh anonymous?
yeah,Bertie big house for you……..MOUNTJOY
this man is deluded in the extreme, and should be jailed once mahon exposes some of his corruption..i say some as i don’t believe we know the half of it and may never know the full extent. FF/micheal martin would be well advise to distance themselves even more than they did up to now, if they want any hope then stay away from him!
IM WRITING IN CAP,S BECAUSE MAKIN SURE EVERBODY CAN READ IT AIN,T YOU ONE OF THESE FF EX SNEER,S
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