So you see no difference between a rapist and a woman desperate enough to risk bodily harm to abort an unwanted pregnancy? You believe both acts are similar and the perpetrators of both deserve what they get with ni leeway.

Well Tony, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion however, thankfully, I’m not required to respect it.

Of course I could also just use some other ridiculous false dichotomy to try and prove my point but it’s really not worth the effort. You’ve clearly made up your mind and nothing I will say will change it.

False dichotomy? You say abortion will happen whether legal or illegal so it should therefore be legal, Tony lists other things that will happen whether legal or illegal. Where is the false dichotomy exactly?

Funny how abortions are counted per thousand women but hardly ever as a percentage of Pregnancies. Around 10-30%(depending on country) of all Pregnancies end in termination in Europe (doesn’t sound as negligible as 12 or 32 per thousand women)

To be fair Tricia the figures you have quoted in your first comment above are more likely to be influenced by the availability of contraception in the respective areas than the legal status of abortion.

I don’t doubt for a second that increased access to contraception and sex education can only reduce the numbers of unwanted pregnancies, of course it does.

But it doesn’t eliminate the need for abortion access.

But surely the most chilling figures from that report is that thousands of women die and millions more are seriously injured throughout the world because they don’t have access to legal, safe abortions.

And it’s the poorest women that suffer the most.

I don’t disagree with you Tricia, I’m just pointing out that those figures are not fit for the purpose they are being used for.

You said everything that needed to be said Tricia! It’s time we respect women’s rights to control their own bodies!

@ Tricia you could replace the word “abortion” with the word “murder”, “euthanasia”, etc – its a tough one and I as a man perhaps have no right to comment but what are the limits that you would suggest 3 months, 6 months, 8 months, no restrictions. I heard someone say don’t ever give over control of your life to anyone and in this case that person is your mother … I just don’t like it (abortion) but then I am a middle aged man and dont have a young pregnant girlfriend that I can’t / don’t want to support. Bring on the red-thumbs

True Tony, but I think your cause to legalise rape might be a one man army

Dave, I’m not calling for rape to be legalised. Just pointing out the flawed premise of such an argument.

Good point, Egg Head, criminalising the use of drugs is something that really lowers the use of them, right?? The war on drugs has been a massive success!!!!!!!

Decriminalisation is the way to go, like Portugal. But that’s a topic for another article!

It we’re to examine this issue then we must do so with compassion, with a degree of sensitivity and with a very healthy dose of pragmatic reality for, as the author said in the article, 120,000 abortions are already performed in a country where they are illegal in all circumstances. Calling for the murder of those people solves nothing and just polarises opinions even further. Plus it’s bloody hypocritical in the extreme.
A government simply cannot make something like abortion illegal, it’s impossible, especially when those with the means to do so can hop on a boat or plane and take a trip to a neighbouring country where it’s freely available. In such circumstances it’s those who can’t afford to do so that are left to back street abortions, the poor. Like it or not it’s better to regulate abortions and have a degree of control over them and at least ensure that the poor, those who can’t afford luxury clinics, are at least properly looked after and those who wish to do so can bury their babies.

What’s disgusting is infanticide any woman caught doing this stuff should be arrested. Have they no consideration for the person driving the bus?

They’re not real. It’s to point out what people whisper to each other/lengths people go to when there is no safe access

This is beyond shocking! Our women deserve better. Women must be permitted to make decisions about their own bodies! We need to legislate for abortion as a matter of urgency!

Desperate people take desperate measures , I don’t condone going in front if cars, but got knows I understand why some would.

Access to safe and legal abortion would prevent things Luke this happening. As for contraception, no firm is 100% effective so there will always be unwanted pregnancies. No woman should be forced down a life path she didn’t choose because a pill didn’t work.

Oh and Joe if you believe that abortion is the same as infanticide, that’s your issue. Just don’t expect the rest of us to adhere to your views. Frankly, if a woman wants to end a pregnancy it’s none of your business.

Legislate for a constitutional matter? Come back when you have even the vaguest notion of what you’re talking about liberte.

John, should men be forced to go down a life path they didn’t choose just because they got someone pregnant? Surely abandoning pregnant partners both physically & financially must also be accepted & supported by society if we are to apply your points consistently.

I don’t think contraception is widely available in mainly Catholic Latin America, Egg Head. Otherwise I’m sure women would be using it.
The only reason there aren’t way more illegal abortions here in Ireland is because we’re lucky enough to have a safety valve right beside us.

Simple solution to that egg. Next time a man is in bed with woman all he has to do is ask what options she would consider if she becomes pregnant. If he doesn’t like the answer he’s free to not have sex with her.

Simple solution to demand for abortuon too, women shouldn’t have sex unless they want to get pregnant. We can all come up with ridiculous & impractical “simple” solutions to issues, not so easy to actually address points though, eh?

Well if you thing widespread access to abortion is somehow “ridiculous” that’s your issue. However that view is out of step with most of the developed world (Europe, North America, North East Asia etc.) Where liberal abortion laws are the socially accepted norm.

As for the issue, for me it’s quite simple: women should be allowed to choose if and when to have children. This should be assisted ideally with contraception and when necessary with abortion.

“Women should be allowed to choose if and when they have children”. That’s fine, should men be afforded the same choices?

Absolutely. I believe the state should provide access to sperm storage facilities and vasectomy clinics.

If a woman becomes pregnant you feel she should be free to choose whether or not she wants to be a mother. If a man gets a woman should be also be free to choose not to be a father?

Egghead
Don’t be so pedantic. We are talking about women’s lives and how they are putting their own lives in danger to achieve a termination, something which should be a simple medical procedure!

John I can somewhat understand abortion done medically if a mothers life is endangered but throwing yourself in front of a bus or down stairs or attacking yourself with a fire extinguisher is infanticide in my eyes.

Haven’t I just answered that question? Don’t wanna be a father, get a vasectomy. If you haven’t got one done and find yourself in bed with a woman you don’t want to have a child with, ask her what options she would consider.

As I said Joe, your views are your own business. Nobody wants women going to such extreme lengths, but desperate people do desperate things.

A legal change could stop this from happening.

No you haven’t answered it John. Let’s try again, man gets woman pregnant. Man doesn’t particularly want to be a father, and would rather not have to pay towards the child if the woman chooses to have it. Should the man legally be allowed to abdicate all parental responsibilities because this is a “life path” he doesn’t choose, or is it only women who should be afforded this choice post-conception?
It’s a very simple question, a yes or no answer will suffice.

Eh I did answer it, but to be more concise, yes I believe he should be allowed to, absolutely.

In the same way a women who doesn’t want to be a parent shouldn’t be forced to be.

At least that’s equitable, although not sure this country really needs any more fatherless kids. Taking responsibility for ones actions should be a chapter in a history book in a few short generations with this brave new world we are entering.

When he is in a position to bring the child to term in his artificial womb and guarantee the raising of the child to 18 years of age it would be well worth considering. But for as long as it requires forcing a woman to be pregnant against her will then the woman gets to decide.

If comments are blocked then that’s fair enough from the Journal IMO. It’s their house, their rules and we have other forums for discussion (e.g. Twitter, boards.ie, politics.ie, Broadsheet, the Guardian).

An article is up and that’s good. Fair play, Journal. We shouldn’t hijack this article anymore.

Oliver in my opinion, The Journal has generally separated itself from other news outlets/social media due to the fact that its readers may debate the subject at hand. That’s why I like it. For them to close and remove comments regarding anything to do with the almighty DOB just tells me that yet again that b*****d has his finger in this pie too and people are getting pissed off. Which has been a long time coming in fairness.

Could you be a little biased since you’ve written for The Journal before?