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GERMAN AUTHORITIES HAVE begun cracking down on ‘Reichsbuerger’ or ‘Citizens of the Reich’, a far-right movement long dismissed as malcontents and crackpots but now seen as a growing threat.
A mixed bag of conspiracy theorists, neo-Nazis and gun enthusiasts who reject the modern democratic state, the fragmented movement is growing more radical at a time when right-wing extremism in general is on the rise.
Several ‘Reichsbuerger’ have opened fire on police or hoarded weapons and explosives.
On Wednesday, 200 police raided 12 locations across Germany and detained two suspects, who were formally arrested on Thursday, accusing the group of plotting “armed attacks against police officers as representatives of the state, asylum seekers and members of the Jewish community”.
What do we know about the Reichsbuerger?
What do they believe?
The Reichsbuerger refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the modern German republic and generally believe in the continued existence of the pre-war German Reich, while some idolise Nazi Germany.
Some see modern Germany as a US colony and argue that the Reich’s 1919 Weimar Constitution and its formers borders which extend far into present-day Poland remain valid.
Several groups have declared their own mini-states, such as the “Exile Government of the German Reich” or the “Free State of Prussia”, made flags and issued their own identity papers, currencies and postage stamps.
They typically deny the legitimacy of police and other state institutions and refuse to pay taxes, social service contributions and fines, which brings them into conflict with authorities.
Their members have often been dismissed as eccentrics, oddballs and trolls known for swamping local municipalities and courts with letters, formal complaints, motions and objections.
Are they neo-Nazis?
The movement is characterised by an extreme right-wing, historically revisionist and often ethno-nationalist ideology.
Several groups are known to have direct links to illegal neo-Nazi organisations and are under surveillance by German state and federal intelligence agencies.
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Berlin’s security service describes Reichsbuerger as following an “ideological mix of conspiracy theories, anti-Semitic and anti-democratic views”.
The anti-fascist Amadeu Antonio Foundation warns that although it may be tempting to dismiss Reichsbuerger as cranks, “behind the masquerade of conspiracy theories, esotericism and government game-playing lies a hardcore right-wing extremism and anti-humanist ideology”.
How many are they?
Around since the 1980s, with links to like-minded groups in the United States, the movement was long estimated to number in the hundreds — but it has grown exponentially in the internet age, especially in the past few years.
This week domestic intelligence service chief Hans-Georg Maassen said the “Reichsbuerger scene” of activists and sympathisers was now thought to number about 10,000.
Of these, 500 to 600 were known right-wing extremists, Maassen told the DPA news agency.
Most known followers are middle-aged white males. They exist nationwide, but most high-profile cases have been reported in Germany’s formerly communist east and the southern state of Bavaria.
How dangerous are they?
Maassen said his service worried about the movement’s “considerable propensity for violence and increased aggressiveness”.
In an attack last August, a 41-year-old Reichsbuerger and one-time Mister Germany pageant winner opened fire on police carrying out an eviction order at his house in the eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt.
The gunman was seriously wounded and three police officers suffered light injuries.
Another Reichsbuerger is accused of shooting dead a police officer and wounding three others during a raid to confiscate his hunting weapons in the town of Georgensgmuend, Bavaria, in October.
After the killing, it emerged that some German state police forces were sweeping their own ranks to search for possible Reichsbuerger and sympathisers in uniform.
“Some Reichsbuerger display signs of mental health issues,” an intelligence service official from the eastern state of Brandenburg, Heiko Homburg, told Bild newspaper this week.
“If they have access to weapons, they pose an extreme threat.”
These measures aren’t going to reduce the numbers of people buying and selling sex. They’re just going to force both parties further underground and that will probably make things significantly more dangerous for the workers themselves. I don’t know what the answer is but these measures sound like they work in favour of the traffickers, not against them. Women in other countries can openly work in the sex trade and pay taxes etc. Surely this is a safer and better option.
Andrea of course it is. The existing legislation needs to be changed – thats for sure. The ultimate goal of doing so is to make it safer for women and reduce/prevent human trafficking.
Anyone with a brain can figure out the best way to do so would be to take commodities (prostitutes) out of the control of gangsters and creating a safer work environment for them , as opposed to further empowering the criminals by prohibition. Prostitution will NEVER go away, it is a part of every way of life, in every culture on the planet and has been for thousands of years.
Why does Alan Farrel believe he can buck the trend after having spoke to a few women that were in the business and following the swedish model. Why do you need to follow the swedish model? Sweden has become a buzzword with politicians and ‘models’. It is based on ” years and years of swedish research” – but where is our own research? Whats wrong with the dutch and german models. Why havent they been mentioned in the article? Surely a comparison should be made followed by a discussion on their limitations and where theyve been succesful, but Alan failed to discuss the success of other models.
I wonder if any of ye big men would be happy with your daughters being in this situation. Ye seem to think that these women are sole traders and entrepreneurs happy with their lives. Nothing about the abuse, drug addiction or the other aspects that don’t fit your agenda. What about the fact many start out underage? Interesting it’s men that don’t have a problem with it. Well “men”.
@praise, the media makes out that these girls in most cases are drug addicted down and outs. I guarantee with the majority of women in the sex industry of regulated countries, this is not the case. Noself respecting man would approve of their daughter selling their body, but this is not the issue.
praise, how did you know I was a big man? And i may be wrong, but i think ‘andrea’ is a female.
Prostitution is not an ideal situation for any female to be in. But if somehow, your daughter found herself involved in prostitution, would you rather she was working for a drugdealing/human trafficking/criminal
or
in a safer/government regulated/drug free/ std free environment.
“I wonder if any of ye big men would be happy with your daughters”
It’s not for me to tell any woman. even those close to me how to make a living. Crazy as this may sound to you, women are not lesser creatures who need men to protect them from so called “immoral” lifestyles.
Yup not the case unless you look in crack dens and street corners and why do they exist? ??? Because of stupid Christian laws banning prostitution. Ban pubs and booze and you will find people in dives too.
Now as for my daughter doing it/sister doing it/ mother done it….. would I care about it. No. Simply no. My morality is slight bit different to yours. Jesus is not my god. If my daughter or sister wanted too fine but I would expect the best of education for them and the best of health care. Do you really think there was no upper class prostitution rings where now journalists, doctors and solicitors/barristers did not partake in to fund a high education and lifestyle. Do you really think having been an escort to fund education that many didn’t go on to have career’s and families of their own and live normal life.
i also think that your angle in this debate is pathetic. You attempt to create a divide between the sexes, insinuating that men would prefer legalized sex. Are men allowed to offer their opinion in this debate?
I know women that have paid for sex aswell, and a lot of male prostitutes need protection to. You are as one eyed and pathetic as alan farrel
@praise there are plenty of countries in the world where senior male relatives get to dictate how their women folk live their lives. I don’t think we should be looking to become one of them.
The right question to ask is ‘Were your daughter a prostitute, would you prefer if she operated in an open, regulated and safe environment or would you prefer she was forced to work in an illegal and underground brothel leaving her open to exploitation from pimps and traffickers ?’
Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world.
It is NOT going to go away, just because you make it illegal.
All that results in is shifting it from an overground to an underground operation.
Also, through my job I encounter many prostitutes.
They do it of their own free will, without a pimp or any coercion.
‘So why do they do it ?’ I hear you ask.
Well, they make €150 an hour.
Working 5 hours a day, 5 times a week for 40 weeks a year.comes out at €150,000 a year TAX FREE.
@praise hope. You’ve raised interesting issues. In theory I have no problem with women or men who want to make a living through having sex for money and there is no real difference between that and having sex with someone because they’re rich.
But to understand how much we think it’s perfectly fine, we need to ask ourselves a number of questions.would we be happy if our mothers, sisters, brothers etc did it for a living? Should it be talked about in schools as a legitimate career choice? Would you advise your son/daughter to do it part time or during the summer? Would you be perfectly happy asking your partner about their working day or night over dinner/breakfast if they were prostitutes? Would there be apprenticeships or job bridge? Should the unemployed be forced to do it if a large brothel was hiring in their area? Would the government be ecstatically announcing the creation of 200 new jobs in the growing sex industry? Would you be happy to put it on your cv? If society answers yes to those questions, then ok, normalise prostitution. However, I don’t think that even in countries were it’s legal that most people would answer yes.
Anne Marie, the point is that just because you might answer no to some or all of those questions, does not automatically mean it should be banned. People should be let make their own decisions.
I’m taking it that you are one of these people who sees the world in black and white.
You want to protect women from predators and keep them safe then you have to legalise it.
In my mind the safety of women is of a greater concern then the philosophical and moralistic questions.
Legalisation means protecting these women from gangsters, from disease and allowing them the option to exit the “industry”
I would not want my daughter or sister or any woman I love to be working in this industry but I would prefer the woman to be in this profession to be in it for their their own reasons, rather than to be kidnapped and threatened.
It’s not the prostitutes who are criminals or the people who pay, it’s the criminals running it.
You legislate to get the criminals out of the business then you can try and work on the issues that lead women and men into this business
Firstly if a woman is an adult, her parents opinion of her work is irrelevant. That’s a non-argument.
Can you give us some proof for your claim that sex workers in Ireland are generally abused, on drugs or start out underage? You appear to be dealing in the kind of myths and cliches that TORL like to insult our intelligence with.
Fallacious arguements…Much?? “The wahat about your wives,sisters,daughters being a prostitute” old chestnut has long been discredited.And hers my answer,if any of my female aquaintences or family can make more money with their bodies than being stuck in some dwad end job,Im all for it!
After 40 years association with sex workers in 4 countries I can tell you that:
1. Most sex workers are sole traders *AT LEAST* as happy with their lives as the women on the checkout in Tesco (who are *NOT* sole traders) and far better paid.
2. Abuse is no more common than with any other job that deals with the public in isolation and increases sharply with any for of criminalization including “Swedish Model”
3. The majority of sex workers these days don’t even smoke let alone take drugs.
4. Very few sex workers start out underage, virtually none at all in Ireland (simply because runaways can’t hide here long enough it’s too small and head for UK – but hey…mightn’t it be a better idea to create a care system kids do not *WANT* to escape from anyway?)
I don’t have a problem with sex work and I am not a man. (NB I hated selling sex…that meant I moved heaven and earth not to have to do it again without the slightest need to destroy the market all sex workers depend on for a living).
Dave j spot on, I’m a bloody woman and even I know women pay for sex, it this stigma that sex is dirty and all that crap that’s been handed down from catholic church, legalise it regulate it and see how many are actually trafficking, take the pimp out of it and the underworld element. Feck the Swedish version and then you might actually make money out of it.
I wouldn’t pay for sex on the terms men do – because I have never wanted sex on the casual terms men do (one of the reasons I felt it was perfectly ok to charge them for it so I could spend the money on things I *DID* want, like food and a real, private home) – but I can remember, fairly recently (ahem…actually it was several years ago) having HUGE chemistry with a young man half my age.
Now here is the thing…there would have been nothing reasonable or fair about developing the holistic relationship I *DID* want on equal terms.
* That relationship would involve his emotions and deny him children unless it ended
* I could not be available to grow old with him
I couldn’t justify it, and tore myself to pieces over it…
…BUT…
If I were wealthy enough to send round a BMW to match his eyes with a (legitimate) job offer nobody in their right minds could refuse and he considered it, and felt it was fair exchange for all loving me would cost him we had a chance of living happily ever after.
Recently I met (online) the wonderful young man who sells sex to women in Canada and he is charming…his professional services may cost a fortune, but he is one of those people who makes *ANYBODY’S* day a little brighter for free…
Now what, in the whole world, is evil, dirty or harmful about any, or all of the above?
Hmmmm…WHY do I get the uncomfortable feeling that at least *ONE* of the thumbs down comes from the men half my age who realize that making a similar offer to them in ANY circumstances would never cross my mind? “chuckles*
C’mon, *WHAT* exactly *IS* the problem with an older woman paying for sex on terms she will actually enjoy if she can afford it (as I cannot, but thanks for all the estimates in my inbox, truly :o) )?
Completely disagree with most of the points made in this article. Completely agree would rather see a policy shift towards German model. Legalise and regulate.
Absolutely. Making it illegal just pushes the trade further underground, as sex workers attempt to protect their clients. Hence making it illegal makes it more dangerous for sex workers. Sex workers can’t seek protection from police and workers aren’t regularly tested for STIs. Regulation would mean workers and clients are safer.
Once there is demand there will always be supply. It should be illegal unless with a registered sex worker. Someone who get tested for STIs and meet a social worker regularly (all at the client’s expense), something like that. Otherwise you’re just sweeping the problem of sex trafficking and sex worker protection under the carpet by hoping banning it will make it go away.
ooh no thank you Bryan. No two-tier legal regimes please.
An approach that splits sex work into legal, licensed, controlled, with anyone working outside of that regime still subject to criminal law is still a fundamentally conservative approach that looks on sex work itself as a problem.
The problems with sex work reflect the problems with wider society.
Sex workers just need rights. We ought to be looking to New Zealand as the model to follow on sex work law.
The reason why there is an ‘underground’ criminal involvement is the fact that it is all out illegal. If the industry was recognised then the trafficked victims could go to the Gardai in confidence and get the help they need.
Prostitution is like the drug trade. As long as it is all out illegal and not regulated, there will be criminals trying to use it as a source of income. I’m not saying it’s we should completely legalise prostitution but we certainly should have more of an open mind and look to other nations (Holland) for ideas to deal with the industry.
Its not (thankfully) all out illegal though the government is certainly making it very difficult for sex workers to safely operate. Selling or buying sexual services is not a crime but brothel keeping (ie not working alone) and solicitation are. Making the lives of sex workers very difficult and unnecessarily dangerous.
Creating exceptions in the crime of brothel keeping to allow sex workers to work together for safety and employ others for secretarial/security roles would be a help in the short term.
Long term it would be great if they could look at the Australian example as a possible template. TD’s could even wrangle a junket out of it.
The recent protest by sex workers outside your place of work should have highlighted to you what those most at risk in the sex industry would like you to do. Namely legalise and regulate.
By criminalising the purchase of sex you are putting these women at greater risk. They know that, we know that and I suspect you know that.
By criminalising the purchase of sex, you force the women in the industry to deal with criminals. Men will turn to larger criminal syndicates that can ensure their girls won’t blackmail the buyer. Syndicates like these use trafficked girls that they have complete control over.
All you have succeeded in doing is forcing buyers and sellers to associate with dangerous criminals, put more women at risk, increased the demand for trafficked women and tied up garda resources prosecuting the consensual sale of sex.
I call on you and your government to reverse this decision and listen to the women you have endangered when they call for you to legalise, regulate tax and protect. Take the sex industry out of the shadows and you will save the lives of so many vulnerable women and girls.
Absolutely Bill! If this idiot politician is in the mood to lecture society about morality perhaps he would do us a better service to have a word with his fellow party colleague that has defrauded the tax payer making personal calls to a friend in Kenya and the morality of that behaviour.
He could do worse than read The Oldest Profession by Lujo Bassermann before presenting himself as an expert. The irony here is that parading yourself to get a female vote is in itself a form of political prostitution!
Prostitution has always been around and will always be around, so instead of moralising they should take steps to protect the women and men who work as sex workers. If it was legalised and regulated the workers would be safer and better protected, also it would put a lot of pimps out of business. Trafficking and child prostitution are a totally separate issue, but why should it be illegal for two consenting adults in private to exchange money for sex?
I honestly think he doesn’t even believe his own bullshit. This is a political article aimed at conservative mammies and daddies countrywide. Having lived in Germany, you tend to feel like a mature adult in a mature society. In ireland, we drink too much to drown the guilt and frustration that’s in us, and then wear it like an emblem of honour…now that is wrong.
Human traffickers have the hottest fire’s of hell reserved for them,but making
prostution illegal isn’t going to help we probably need the opposite.Oldest profession in the world and all that.
Prostitution is open to exploitation as long it is illegal. Fine Gael is out of touch with the reality of “modern society”..The sex industry is a reality and is not going away, in fact Fine Gael should get used to the idea that passing stupid unjust laws for the sole purpose of avoiding so called moral issues is no longer acceptable.
Stop being cowards and tackle the issues ignore the rants of old virgins in pointed hats they do not represent the people.
The funny thing is people have this stereotypical image of it being just old guys who get prostitutes. It’s all sorts of men of varying age from different social and cotnomic backgrounds.
Let you in on a little secret. When I was single I visited some escorts. 5 in all my time. Never have I been to an actual house full of trafficked girls. Oh I know that happens but I went with independent girls who do it as a choice to fund career.
Fyi that’s not me in the picture. I’m 31 and generally attractive and have had relationship with some stunners.
So why would I visit a prostitute if single and “generally attractive” simple girls have vibes we don’t really and sometimes when single your horny simple as. Human urge to have sex even when single. I could ask a girl out then take her for dinner buy drinks go for movie. Kiss good night same thing a few more times then we might have sex. Great or I can do the cheaper option and visit an escort.
Last time with escorts was 4 years ago. Before my current relationship.
So Ireland stop being backwards legalise it regulate it and let who want to do it do it they pay tax and get the benifits and protection same as any worker and you wipe out human trafficking overnight.
We are generations behind the likes of Germany. Why do we always pander to the won’t someone think of the children crowd
I’d sex with a brasser by accident. One night stand job. Found out later about the profession through a pal. Was delighted with myself for getting a freebie; a pro bono ride, if you will.
I’m a modern western culture where ‘sex sells’ why can’t we sell sex?
Australia, Netherlands, Germany all seem to have good systems.
Iv seen a lot of fine looking girls completely miserable in their jobs and deteriorate in mental well being and physical health. It happens to men too.
I’d be more inclined to stick to clean and healthy living myself if I could earn a few hundred quid a week for a couple of hours work here and there!
Of course in Germany, Netherlands and Australia all the hoares are in the business voluntarily, there is no trafficking and no criminality. Prossie paradises.
Thomas in Germany and the Netherlands there is criminality. There is a lot of trafficking of women, that is due to the Geographical position of these countries. The vast majority of people working in the sex trade in these countries are not forced to do so. If you have a problem with sex and other peoples sexuality then I suggest you should seek out a suitable therapy or mind your own business and let these people carry on with their lives.
Joseph I have no problem with sex or sexuality – I do have a problem with naivety. The suggestion in a lot of the posts is that if we adopt a German or Dutch model we will eliminate criminality associated with prostitution. We will not. That is my point. If you have a problem understanding that and had your approach I might suggest you get remedial education but that would be an unnecessary ad hominem comment. If you have a problem accepting that there are alternative opinions and different ways of expressing that I might suggest you attend an anger management course or get a tolerance transplant… But that would be personally abusive so I won’t go that way either. :)
I love alternative opinions,without them a discussion would be boring. I love the diversity of life and human beings. I never once said that “German or Dutch model we will eliminate criminality associated with prostitution”.
When Prostitution is regulated then a large portion of the criminality associated with prostitution by default will go, don’t you agree?
I would also like to know what is wrong with the buying and selling of sex between connecting adults?
I have no problem with people selling or buying sex, as long as it is done freely, without coercion and without criminal gangs benefitting. Also don’t know why you persist in thinking I said I did have a problem with sex or the sex trade. Loose connections perhaps?
I doubt it very much that all sex workers are trafficked.I’m sure there’s a lot of very independent woman making a nice income for themselves without being pressured into that type of work.
Exactly, and what right does anyone have to interfere with their liberty. In his article, which is long enough, he begins with the assertion that prostitution is not acceptable, which he never tries to explain or justify, and not once does he even mention the balancing side of the argument of freedom, or liberty. Even if you are in favour of the legislation, surely you have a view on the civil liberty issues?
It seems to be a problem with our political elite, they don’t seem to be able to think for themselves.
Prohibition doesn’t work. It’s about time to legalise and regulate the sex (and drug) trade to give better protection to the women. Personally, I find the sex trade revolting but I would settle for using existing laws to prosecute human traffickers and pimps.
Your could not legislate to pour water out of a boot if the instruction were written on the bottom. We are actually attracting criminals to Ireland because of the huge profits they make here. High taxes have seen gang from Eastern European to China setup base in our country all under the noses of the justice system. Instead of regulating this industry like Sweden we are going to make the people involved more at risk than they are today. Where are the extra guards going to come from and what damage will be done to family’s members who see family’s members up in court for buying sex. Yet again the heart strings are pulled about the thousands of women imported to work as slaves when the poor PAYE worker is on his knees because of overpaid idiots who can afford to buy sex and have the moral conscience of a rat.
If you honestly want to make it safer, then legalise prostitution. It’s called the oldest profession for a living, and it will always exist. And why shouldn’t it?
Sex is only a physical act. It becomes emotional when it’s between two people who love or hate eachother. I would relate it to boxing or wrestling. You can be arrested for casual fighting in the streets, but paid a great deal for fighting professionally, whereas it is the opposite for sex.
If you really want to make it safer, then legalise it. Then it can be kept under tight control, with regular medical and safety checks, the ability to refuse clients safely like you can in a restaurant, and a much higher chance of employment after leaving prostitution. Hell, the government can even tax it like any other job.
And why are we so ashamed of sex like that? Some people love sex, and are happy to be able to both get money and sex for a living. It’s the dream job of some, much like writer, footballer, or diving instructor is for others.
Trafficking is a crime. Why therefore have there only been a handful of prosecutions? Could it possibly be because there are in fact very few trafficked women involved in prostitution?
The problem is that it is very hard to get enough evidence to prosecute. The women are terrified, in part because they are criminalised, in part because the traffickers often have an ongoing hold over their family and in part because of their own future well-being, since they are illegal immigrants. A woman can be sold four or five times before she is put on the market and the chain of trafficking can be very hard to establish.
No doubt that does happen, and it is a problem. The question though is whether you should trample civil liberties to try to solve that problem, or you just accept that not all these things can be prevented in a free society.
Stronger legislation needs to be introduced immediately! Especially for drugs and prostitution!!
If history has thought us anything it’s that tougher sentences, prohibition and lengthier prison sentences reduces mans natural urge to have sex and get f*cked up!
”BUYING A WOMAN’S body for sexual gratification is not OK. It’s not harmless and it shouldn’t be acceptable in our modern society.”
No-one is ”buying” bodies. Sex workers provide agreed services over a set period of time. Quite often actual sex doesn’t even take place. Many sex workers are men but you don’t seem to have a problem with this?
”It is estimated that the prostitution industry is worth €180 million a year in Ireland. All of it illegal, all of it generated by illicit means.”
Any actual proof for this figure? There are less than 1000 sex workers in Ireland. How do such a small number generate such a huge figure?
Selling and buying sexual services is NOT currently illegal and even if the new law is passed, selling will still not be illegal. Are you not aware of this?
Can you give us figures for human trafficking in Ireland? I’ll start you off. In the North last year (2014) there were a total of THREE suspected cases of human trafficking for sexual purposes. That’s suspected — not proven. Do tell us what the figure in the ROI is.
”As we speak, young girls, no older than Junior Certificate students, are forced to work in the shadows of this industry to satisfy the sexual demands of others.”
Where are these young girls? If sex buyers can find them, why can’t the Gardai? Are you saying that our police force is incompotent?
”Sweden has adopted this law following years of research into international best practice and is a shining example of the furtherance of progressive policies for the betterment of society.”
Really? Why then did Sweden report a 95% increase in sex trafficking last year? Why do they still have more sex workers than Ireland do? Why did Westminster throw out these proposals last year? As did Scotland, Denmark, New Zealand and Finland. Why are Norway seriously considering repealing their similar law?
The law of unintended consequences will be running riot with this one long after Mr. Farrell is sent back to Fingal County Council.
If given the benefit of the doubt, the best that will be said of him is that he was “well-meaning”.
Biggest possible unintended consequence for me is that due to the nature of the business, the enforcement will require gardai to use increasingly invasive tactics with regard to tapping phones etc.
You might find we have stopped the influx of east European sex workers, only to begin the importation of east European police tactics!
You are a all spouting rubbish. Prostitution has , is and always will be , no matter what your moral inclinations are. It’s a fact of life, whether desireable or not.
The case for legalising prostitution is compelling and would address near all of the concerns the proposers of this legislation claim to have. If the transaction is one between two consenting adults then everybody else should butt out and stop trying to impose their principles on others.
The problem with that is that those who propose the legislation are being untruthful as to why they want it. They couldn’t care less about trafficking. They want to control sexual activity of all kinds, for religious reasons. Trafficking is the angle they’ve chosen to pull the wool over the eyes of easily-led politicians.
Remember these are the people who claimed that prostitutes are victims and therefore should be decriminalised. A grand idea indeed, let down only by the fact that it is not illegal to be a prostitute.
Lies, red herrings and deceit. All in a day’s work for those who know what’s best for the souls of the great unwashed.
Look closer Col and you will see those “religious reasons” ultimately resolve themselves in the one true faith:
Hard cash and ambition
There are somewhere between 1000 and 2000 sex workers in Ireland (nobody has an exact figure, the closest was me literally counting on my fingers in 1996 and coming up with 1300 – 1700 later adopted by Ruhama as a figure – interesting “boom” and “epidemic” if the true figure today is 1000). They are easily outnumbered by the executive boards (who know literally nothing about sex work and refuse to listen to any real sex workers to find out) of the NGOs committed to “Turn Off the Red Light” for the networking and other career advantages…
So no politician has to care about the truth…and if a few of the most desperate, vulnerable sex workers are driven to lethal danger or suicide by “Nordic Model” legislation and their lives in the power of ruthless NGOs, sure you can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs, re-election depends on “sending a clear message” and besides, that stuff is EASILY brushed under the carpet with carte blanche to use lurid trafficking myths as a misdirect…
…but do any of them even know *WHAT* message they are supposed to be sending anyway? Much less why…
There is nothing more boring than an article from a politician / lobbyist suggesting the conceivable end of prostitution between a woman and a man. The naïveté of it all…
You might like to contact me for the details of several group for aspiring writers of short fiction in your local area.,because that is all you have written, cold blooded, self serving fiction without the slightest resemblance to the sex industry I have been associated with for more than 40 years and in 4 countries.
You don’t purchase someone when you pay for sex, you pay for a service: no more then when you hire a lawyer you’re not buying their brain. It’s a simple act and when you have two consenting adults, why not?
I also don’t think you can automatically equate trafficking with prostitution. Not all prostitutes are trafficked. I believe that you need to make a distinction between the two issues. It shouldn’t be illegal to buy or sell sex. It only forces people underground and exposes people to violence and STD’s.
This is preposterous Alan Farrell has just stated on twitter that he has spoken to more than two current sex workers and the NGOs will back him up on this…
He knows SO LITTLE that he doesn’t even know that sex workers avoid the NGOs like the plague because the NGOs only lie to and about them except when they are abusing and exploiting them…
Anyone who knows anything about sex work at all would know that if the NGOs said grass was green you’d be best advised to pop out and check for yourself…
Just to show you how very little attention Alan Farrell has paid to anything that is not a “Turn Off the Red Light” affiliated Press release:
*********
From: Gaye D [mailto:mechanima@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 7:39 PM
To: ‘alan.farrell@oireachtas.ie’
Subject: Justice Committee Hearings on Sex Work – making history
Importance: High
Hi,
One way or another, myself and a very brave, trusted friend intend to make history during the Justice committee hearings today, Wednesday January 16th 2013
If you asked real sex workers what they want the honest answer would be:
“I want you to leave me alone because you have done too much harm already, and my family and I cannot afford for you to do any more.”
The state fails people abysmally and leaves them with no realistic option but sex work then persecutes them for it.
The NGO sector fails people abysmally (usually through placing a far higher priority on exploiting them in the pursuit of personal ambition that on their wellbeing) and leaves them with no realistic option but sex work then tries to coerce them into a position where they can exploit, and fail, them all over again.
Quietly, behind the scenes, some of those people, and their families, do not even get to survive, while the state, and the NGOs go off on yet another junket that cost more than enough to solve all their problems.
That is the whole story, there are no justifications, and no excuses.
Compared to the State and the NGO sector even the very worse of sex work clients is a benefactor.
The whole “Turn Off the Red Light” campaign is initiated and run by organisations who picked up the issue of sex work shortly before their own slave labour camps (called “Magdalene Asylums”) were finally caught out for the monstrosities they are. The majority of sex workers see those organisations as the threat they are and avoid them as far as possible…yet they are allowed to claim to represent the best interests of sex workers, while sex workers themselves are silenced.
I do not see what on EARTH business most of these organisations have speaking at all, they no nothing about sex work, and/or never see any need to tell the truth about it
Yesterday I spoke to your clerk of the court, and told him, truthfully, that, by demonstrating, and exposing myself I will be sacrificing everything that makes my life survivable, his reply was:
“I am sure nobody wants you to do that”
Sadly, that is not really true is it? Because ALL of you are perfectly comfortable to sacrifice the things that make life survivable for any amount of sex workers to the demands of a lot of NGOs that you know, as well as I do are unscrupulous and self serving without even giving them a hearing, because if you do not give them a hearing you will never have to face the truth of the real harm that you are happy to do to them. You can pretend it will not happen. Sadly, the sex workers concerned will not have that luxury. Some of them have innocent children to protect and support who will suffer terribly too.
They are ALL PEOPLE not dogs in the pound who need to be represented by humans.
Sincerely,
Gaye Dalton
*********
…and yet…two year later he claims “the NGOs” can substantiate how much he has engaged with sex workers…maybe he should try reading one or two emails from real sex workers before he makes an even bigger show of himself…
I would laugh, but the consequences to sex workers (who were real people last time I checked) of this clueless “default to NGO pleasing” are so potentially dangerous…
Another TD Stephen Donnelly recently responded to a email months later with a similar viewpoint by “reassuring” me he would be supporting the Swedish Model – HE HAD NOT EVEN READ several information packs I had sent him and he had acknowledged over years…despitw ALREADY offering to meet with me twice then never following through…
“Turn Off the Red Light” manufactured a synthetic problem for personal gain and ambition, made a lot of high rent noise and nuisance of themselves about it on the public purse and pulled a lot of string then Turn Off the Red Light presented TDS with a solution to the synthetic problem they just had to sign to make the noise and nuisance go away… so they sign it in droves without even bothering to read it let alone inform themselves of any fact…
They say the Empress Messalina and her little children wound up beheaded the same way…
…and if you want to write the kind of rubbish above for a few ould brownie points they are happy to send you something to transcribe.
….and if this goes through the most vulnerable and desperate sex workers will start losing their homes, families and lives…
It appears that your problem is with trafficking and exploitation, anyone would have a problem with that. And it does indeed need to be dealt with and stopped. But what of those who actually choose the industry?
This is the world’s oldest profession, it has endured so long because there is, always has been and always will be a massive demand for it. If someone makes the conscious decision to enter the sex industry, and others choose to pay them – why should they be criminalized?
Perhaps regulation would be more realistic? Take the pimps out of the equation and the trafficking stops.
It’s a sad reflection on men, to see so many men here, support each other and dismiss/disrespect female opinions on this blog…no surprise then that many of you are perturbed regarding the plan to criminalise purchasers of women for sex…The ‘lad culture’ is alive and well in Ireland and it is disturbing …particularly as research shows that a significant percentage of prostitute ‘clients’ have wives waiting at home for them when they have finished with their ‘bought’ woman’s ‘services’.
Anything that can dissuade such ‘services’ can only be helpful to the often vulnerable women (or even children) who are in prostitution, and also to the partners/wives who may be sharing their men unwittingly with them.
And yes, prostitutes are women, real women…who are usually at their wits end and suffer greatly emotionally and are often stigmatised in society
Why do it? Just because you can? Just because you’re a guy and it’s a guy thing?
Concerns re safety of prostitutes is an excuse as how many ‘clients’ actually care about the prostitutes they visit?
I think that ‘clients’ are more concerned with not getting caught with their pants down…literally and metaphorically…and more so fear the risk of their own criminal prosecution.
PS I am a man-loving and prostitution-hating, real woman :)
And so are the majority of real women, who, through hard life circumstances end up selling their bodies for sex to regular guys like you.
I seriously want to know how, precisely, you think it helps ” real women, who, through hard life circumstances end up selling their bodies for sex to regular guys like you” to destroy the market their income depends upon? I want to know this because, for many years I *WAS* one of those women, very much against my actual wishes, and if there is some way, in your own life, you found it helpful, safe and/or empowering to have no money to survive upon I want to know all about it…in fact I want a recipe for it so that any woman in those exact circumstances can do the same.
I also want to know just how, precisely you think it helps vulnerable women to have no help or resources available to them except in terms of knowingly playing along with the kind of outright lies this article is based upon, because, in any other context that would be called “gaslighting” and considered extremely emotionally abusive in it’s own right.
I have *LIVED* the reality you are so cheerfully theorizing about and the application of your uninformed and unrealistic ideas would have killed me…
…and yes, I *DID* say I hated sex work, but that attitude does not come with an onboard ability to survive without means and/or pander to NGO generated lies to survive.
There are worse things than selling sex to survive…
Way too much generalisation in your post. Yes many clients are married men with widely varying circumstances. Others are single men unable to find a relationship, disabled men with no possible sexual outlet, and shock horror other women and couples. You’ll also find that many sex workers are men, something conveniently ignored by many in this debate.
You say that ”dissauding” such services can ”only be helpful to women.” Really? So severely reducing someone’s income and safety is somehow helpful? Remember that the majority of women in local sex work are there by choice (a quote from the PSNI not my words) and clearly don’t have the distaste for their work that those in the opposing camp suppose they should.
Put it this way — given a choice of wiping elderly men’s bottoms in a care home while being sworn at and spat on for £8 an hour or providing sexual services for £150 an hour, not everyone is going to make the same decision. People (women and men) do sex work for the ame reason anyone else works — to earn money. It certainly isn’t suitable for everyone but for those who freely choose to do so, that choice should be respected.
And you use the lazy cliche of ”selling their bodies.” No bodies are sold. Agreed services are provided over a set period of time. When did you last ”buy” a hairdresser or a masseuse?
Just because you make something illegal doesn’t mean it will stop. We should acknowledge human behaviour. It’s in our nature to desire sexual pleasure. If it could be regulated i think that would be the solution just as it is in 8 other European countries (The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Greece, Turkey, Hungary, and Latvia) where prostitution is legal and regulated.
At least the act itself (i.e. purchasing sex) will be equally punishable if the law is passed. If it’s going to be illegal on one side, I do believe it would be more fair to be illegal on both sides.
It would be more positive, of course, if there was a more concerted effort in Ireland to stamp out trafficking- essentially slavery for sexual purposes. Until then, yes, I fully agree that any person who (unconsciously or not) purchases sex from someone who has been coerced into it deserves to be punished.
But just how prevalent is coersive trafficking in Ireland? Only last month, TORL informed us that there were 87 ”trafficked women” selling sex in Galway alone. The following week Gardai raided 22 premises being used for sex work right across the country. Not one trafficked person was found and the only charge was a male accused of money laundering.
Can someone confirm what torl mean by trafficked? I think there was a suggestion at the time that they were including anyone who travelled to do sex work, even when they hopped on a Ryanair flight if their own free will?
The Palermo Protocol defines: “Trafficking in persons” shall mean the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of the threat or use of force of other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation.”
Trafficking is however much more broadly defined by the likes of TORL, who consider facilitating anyone to do sexwork, even when perfectly willing, to be a trafficked person. So if I were to say drive a sex worker from Belfast to Dublin, they would consider me to be a human trafficker, clearly a ridiculous assumption.
The result of this is that as I mentioned above, TORL can consider all 87 sex workers in Galway to be ‘trafficked’, while the law and therefore the Gardai, see it entirely differently.
I would absolutely agree, which is why police resources should be focussed on the small minority of coercive trafficking victims, rather than chasing consenting adults.
Money laundering is naughty…that is why it is a crime…but you can’t just lump it in to have some sex trafficking figures…any more than you could add a second one if one of the sex workers raided had her car on a double yellow line…if it ain’t sex trafficking it doesn’t count towards the stats…
I disagree with the title of this article, I believe that buying a woman’s body for sexual gratification can be a harmless act if the woman in question is already dead.
Here is a comment from similar, but different BS in a Guardian article that I would like to share with Alan Farrell:
“Here we go again, abolition of sex work through criminalizing the buying of sex and through arresting johns- because these women who sell sex are witless victims in need of rescue….let us not believe this huge pile of shameless bs. One reason is that some women- radical feminists and their followers, who are the main supporters of the Nordic Model, in collaboration with faith based organizations- are not interested in helping women get a better life, in gender equality, or in respecting these women’s rights, but are overly preoccupated with defending their marriages, maintain their privileges and to police non-procreative sexual behavior, these are among the most evident ones . There is a growing body of scientific research and literature supporting the fact that the Swedish law has failed, and that the consequences of that law on people’s lives were devastating. these aspects are known to the people who push the law, and in knowing this, one has to wonder why would the people who claim they have women’s best interest at heart would promote legislation that would further push the sex workers into poverty and dangerous situations. The intentions of who presents such a harmful law as a needed alternative to the already cruel system that punishes sex workers and humiliates them should be questioned and evaluated.”
Massive amount of comments here and here’s mine. If it’s done in the right way, then what’s the problem? Sex will never go out of fashion so long as we all need it from time to time and where’s the harm in that? Better to regulate it than drive it underground and fill the pockets of criminals?
Fairly typical, every day self appointed “sex trafficking expert”.
Enjoy the three “Taken” movies, relish the still irresistible Mr Neeson (with the KILLER accent) but never forget the thick hard line between fact and fiction, particularly at the expense of real people’s lives, homes and families.
Sex workers are *ALL* real people…and they all need their income just as you do…
Hiya Gayle, enjoyed the first ‘Taken’ movie but the second one was shite, sorry. Not bothered about seeing the third one and good luck to Liam Neeson if that’s all he’s up to these days! Over to you and good luck with the various comments?
“What is more important; that we protect vulnerable women and men, many of whom have been trafficked into this this country for the sole purpose of entering the sex industry”
“The reality is that many women and a small number of men have been trafficked into Ireland and forced to work in the sex industry.”
There’s 2 lies straight away.
So how many convictions have there been for trafficking people into Ireland in the last 10 years?
Going by the reports there should be hundreds….so how many convictions for sex trafficking have there been?
I’ll take it that the sex workers you spoke to were the ones who you were introduced to by radical feminists from Ruhama!
A tip for you so this might enter your head.
When a woman is caught selling sex the worst thing she can do is say she is a sex worker, her best option is to cry and claim she was trafficked then she will get the gold star treatment along with a ride back to her home country.
I am very much afraid you have stumbled on hard evidence that not quite all men are ready to make good use of too many rights just yet. :o(
My personal opinion is that Farrell emailed Ruhama and/or “Turn Off the Red Light”, told them he would write an article for them but needed info then just “refried” whatever they sent him by return. I very much doubt if he has ever met *ANY* sex workers beyond the TORL puppets who appeared before the committee, in the event he was there on the day at all. He certainly hasn’t responded to my invitation to meet him. Despite the fact that I meet the committee’s chosen priority of having no personal vested interest in the sex work issue OF ANY KIND more than any who did appear…
The sheer weight of lies around this issue, even at the highest level, are truly terrifying.
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