Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
THE HIGH COURT has ruled that nobody can be granted Irish citizenship if they have spent a single day outside the country in the past year.
The unexpected judgment, handed down by Mr Justice Max Barrett, could affect thousands of people applying for Irish citizenship on the basis of residence in the country.
Experts called the ruling “absurd”, pointing out that the law on citizenship has never been interpreted so strictly before.
Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, foreign nationals wishing to naturalise as Irish have to be legally resident in the State for at least five years out of the last nine (or three out of the last five if married to an Irish citizen).
This includes one year of “continuous residence” in the 12 months up to the date of application.
In practice, the Department of Justice and Equality had been allowing citizenship applicants to be out of the country for up to six weeks in that final year, and “possibly more in exceptional or unavoidable circumstances”.
But Mr Justice Max Barrett ruled this six-week rule goes “beyond what is legally permissible in this regard, because… the Act of 1956 does not confer any discretionary power on the Minister”.
Pointing to the dictionary definition of “continuous”, the judge held that “an applicant must show a one-year period of residence in Ireland that is ‘unbroken, uninterrupted, connected throughout in space or time’”.
Immigration lawyer Aoife Gillespie said the effect of the decision is that “an applicant must literally never leave the State [in those 12 months]. Not even for one day. Not even to enter Northern Ireland (an impossibility for many persons living by the border). They must have entirely uninterrupted residence in Ireland”.
She added, “It is absurd to require a person to be detained within the State for an entire year in order to qualify for Irish citizenship.”
Speaking to the TheJournal.ie, Gillespie said that foreign citizens resident in Ireland should not now apply for citizenship if they have been out of the country even once in the past 12 months – at least until the legal position is resolved.
She added that pending citizenship applications would have to be refused:
Those applications that are sitting on the Department’s desk at the moment, where there is any absence at all, can’t be approved until either the judgment is appealed and overturned or the law changes.
Lawyer Cathal Malone said that the department “may decide to suspend or delay decisions in any case where there’s a short absence” pending an “inevitable” appeal.
Malone, a specialist in immigration and asylum law, told TheJournal.ie that “the decision will likely bring the entire Citizenship Division to a grinding halt until it’s resolved on appeal. I suspect a leapfrog appeal directly to the Supreme Court is highly likely”.
Gillespie said that the ruling could even raise questions about past grants of Irish citizenship, since the six-week rule has, in the High Court’s view, been unlawful all along.
“There are countless naturalisation certificates that have been granted where the person hasn’t been continuously resident in accordance with this rule. So there’s a question mark over whether previous grants of naturalisation were lawful because the Minister didn’t have the power to grant them.”
Over 8,000 people were granted Irish citizenship in 2017 alone, according to European Union data.
The decision does not affect those applying for Irish passports on the basis that they have an Irish parent or grandparent. There is no residence requirement for citizenship by descent.
Mr Justice Max Barrett wrote that while his judgment “may seem unfair”, it was what the letter of the law required. He said that “the cure for any (if any) such unfairness as is resulting is not to be found in the law-courts; it lies in the gift of the legislature”.
Malone added that there may need to be emergency legislation to amend the 1956 Act.
The law is the law
@Darren Callaghan: sometimes the law is an ass.
@Darren Callaghan: and sometime people interpret words in different ways.
@Darren Callaghan: as Charles Dickens wrote in Oliver Twist, “ if that’s what the law says then the law is an ass”
@Darren Callaghan: it wasn’t law when my partner applied 7 months ago, they only told her she couldn’t travel while they had her passport, which they had for 3 months and then returned it saying she was free to travel again. She’s so upset by this as she’s already spent close to one thousand Euro on her application.
@Darren Callaghan: does the judge count the factor when people are waiting on citizenship applications to be approved from last 3 years what his expert opinion will be on this. Or he dont consider human rights in this scenario? This judgement gona cause lot of embarrassment to irish government and courts…. so it’s like when department of justice issued thousands of citizenship in past time those all granted citizenship becomes illegal now.
@Darren Callaghan: except this isn’t the law as it was never interpreted in this way until now.
@Darren Callaghan:
The law is open to judicial interpretation though.
This judge obviously felt like it’s impossible to be resident in Ireland if you leave the state for any length of time.
In other words if you live, work and pay taxes here for 364 days and 22 hours of the year, but go on an afternoon cross-border shopping trip for a couple of hours, that means you’re not resident here.
No doubt this bizarre interpretation will be appealed and tested by other judges.
@Noshah Noshah: No. The judge is simply giving his interpretation of the law as it stands. He doesn’t make the law, government does. This issue can be fixed by the government simply amending the wording of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956 and making the amendments retrospective.
@The Great Unwashed: I don’t think NI could conceivably be classified as outside of Ireland. No court would do such a politically incorrect thing. Also, a trip to NI doesn’t require a passport (nor any part of the UK for that matter), so there would be no record of it anywhere.
@Darren Callaghan: Wow what kind of wuss are you to just bend over and accept any law dished out no matter what just because it’s the law?
@Peter Cavey: maybe she should get it for free. And throw in a house and a car as well.
@Dr Richard DeWitt: but it is outside the state.
@Michael Nolan: don’t be a pr1k. I’ve done nothing to you.
@Michael Nolan: You sir have the wit and the intelligence of a bottle of matured shite.
@Michael Nolan: Part of the process for most applicants is proving you have not been a burden on the state. But keep highlighting your ignorance by all means.
The minister has had discretion but the best way to get a passport is still to buy one through investment.
I also know of people who have gotten passports from that office even though their partner has had dodgy passports in the past. My family does not have the same ‘pull’ it would seem.
This judgement is a joke . The continuous residency rules are already excessive for these applicants.
@Darren Callaghan: That could possible make a lot of previous citizenships illegal, Perhaps they will deport my wife… Please! Please! Don’t take her until we clear out her account….
@Peter Cavey: im not been a whatever break a law here bend a law there give this 1 a pass. Stop that 1 there sounds like a dictatorship
@Peter Cavey: yeah you always get one bolix
@Freddie Rincon: the continuous residence (and 6week rule) do not affect going abroad, or day trips to northern Ireland. It is actually living and working in another state, or returning to your country of citizenship. Aoife Gillespie is wrong – ask an independent lawyer.
@Michael Nolan: changing retrospective laws sounds very dictatorship. Imagine having a glass of beer 6 months ago and passing a breath test only for the police to show up at your door today saying, sorry, we changed the limit on alcohol yesterday and now you were over the limit back then so we are arresting you. It’s nonsense.
@Tommy Roche: this judgement mean, all people who got citizenship their passport get invalid and when ever they cast vote,that become invalid too.
@Darren Callaghan: seems fair
@Darren Callaghan: law should not be treated absolute, law does not guarantee morality.
@James Wallace: Lots of times the Judges are a@ses.
@James Wallace: exactly this law is so weird, how can u stop people even not letting them go on holidays with their kids. Not even attending immigrants close distant relatives wedding or funerals. Doctors go out in uk for seminars, meeting or any kind of workshop so on.
@Dr Richard DeWitt:
Outside the State is outside the State, although point taken in the case of cross-border shopping there may be no official record of it unless the applicant unwittingly revealed it.
@Renton Burke: the 6 week rule does affect going abroad even for tourism. And it is not 6 weeks in a row, it is the total of days that you have been absent in a year time, it sounds senseless, but it’s the way that rule has been taking, affecting professionals that need to travel for work, they will have to explain and possibly show proofs , but if the judge wants to take it literally… applicants can’t cross the border. I used to think that it was like you said,,, but it was not.
@Darren Callaghan: don’t read the comments. Don’t read the comments. Ah sure what’s the worst that could happen. First comment….
@Darren Callaghan: The problem with this country is that we always want the short cut and the easy way out …. Delighted!! The law is the law
@Darren Callaghan: Except if you’re the spouse of an Irish Public servant,
a different privilege applies.
The Public service, serving the Public service.
Citizenship law
quote
” shall not apply to an applicant….
that applicant’s spouse was in the public service”
@Darren Callaghan: that’s why law is law in USA aswell for Irish immigrants.
@Darren Callaghan: Remember that when someone gets 6 years for stabbing another person
@Darren Callaghan: one day? Ridiculous
@Michael Nolan: tolerance and stupidity nice combo.
@Peter Cavey: shame we have to share the same island like people like Michael Nolan
This is a baffling misinterpretation of the word “residence”.
I live in Ireland. That is my residence. I reside there.
However, right now I’m in Tenerife. Do I reside here? No. I’m on holiday. My residence is in Ireland.
Words have meaning. You can live somewhere and be a non-resident (as I was in Australia a few years ago) and vice versa.
@Sean Troy: unless ur not here for the censc
@Sean Troy: the emphasis is on the word “continuous” not residence
@Disco Inferno: Continuous what?
@JayK: exactly, continuous residence. If I go on holidays my post will be waiting for me on return to my place of continuous residence. Totally bizarre ruling.
@Disco Inferno:
The continuous part is meaningless. You can only break your continuity by residing somewhere else. So what residence means is critical to the ruling.
And apparently your residence changes every time you step out the door. I’m sure revenue would be very interested in the potential implications for this ham fisted ruling.
@Sean Troy: true , and theres also the concept of being ‘ordinarily resident’ used by revenue which allows them to tax you as Irish even if you are overseas for a time but I think this is just a quirk in the way the laws are written / interpreted – classic Ireland – a whole bunch of faffing has to take place before some common sense can prevail ;-)
@Sean Troy: Firstly you answered your own question. You were a non resident in Australia even though you resided there.
Residence = “the fact of living in a particular place”, Continuous = “without break”.
You have to live in a particular place without break to become a legal citizen. The Law has known this for a long time, thats why tax uses “Ordinarily resident” and they define that themselves separate from immigration law.
Whats wrong with requiring non nationals to stay in the country for a year? I have been here without break for longer than that. Not all of us get to swan off abroad on holidays.
@Fen: So somebody shouldn’t be allowed travel back for a funeral? My wife is from the UK. She has lived and worked here for 19 years, we have a house and a son here. She has just gone beck to the UK for her uncles funeral, she would have to miss that if she were in the process of applying for citizenship. You’d be happy with that I’m sure.
Seems like equal emphasis could be placed on the work “residence” i.e. the place where you live? Being out of the country for a day does not imply that you took up residence elsewhere…
@Bruce Wardrop: *word
@Bruce Wardrop: yeah was thinking that too. Surely if the country is your primary residence for the year before you apply you should be covered, and that should be easy enough to check. Will be overturned on appeal anyway id imagine
@Bruce Wardrop: can they go on holiday?
And what if they need an emergency operation? Say conjoined twins, for example. Or even getting teeth fixed and having to stay overnight. I know people working in the US who come home to get private treatment here. They still have their Irish passport.
@Bruce Wardrop: but the word residence just means “the fact of living in a place”, then continuous for one year. Which means without break for a year.
@Bruce Wardrop: The old Irish tax law said, you had to be outside the state for more than 90 days, before your Irish residence ceased.
They have two different counters or definitions for the meaning of continuous residence.
Both suiting the state, not the citizens
@Fen: If you nip over to the UK for a weekend you are clearly still continuously residing in Ireland. Going on holiday, or travelling for business a few days, is not the same as taking up residence elsewhere. If that was the case then we probably should be eligible for a tax rebate for the days we’re not in Ireland…
if u dont like it dont apply. Simple as. You would think they’d be happy without travel for a year with a chance to gain citizenship …i know i would
@Michael Nolan: I mean I’d lose my job (it requires travel, and no, work travel is not exempt) and I would likely never see my father alive again, so sure, delighted. All for the glory of citizenship. This law was written in 1956 and not for 2019. It needs to be changed.
@Michael Nolan: and if they live in, say, Clones where they might have to pass through the border simply to get to work?
@Michael Nolan: No. It’s not simple and well you know it!
@Michael Nolan: I think your deliberately missing the point. “They” didnt know because the law has never been interpreted this way before.
@Jacqui Russell: sure if u dont like it dont apply gaining citizenship should not be easy if u miss ur da that much move home.again i know i would.the trouble with people today is they think they are entitled to everything..
@Michael Nolan: you’re some pr!ck
@Michael Nolan: taking a leaf out of trumps book
@Michael Nolan: I’m alright Jack
@Michael Nolan: you doing a Donald Trump impersonation or just trolling?
@Dave Thomas: that man trump is a legend he has done more for world peace in the last 2 years then any other president… You should read some books that have more them 30 pages …
@Dave Thomas: dave any time u would like a bit of face time… another keyboard warrior
@Michael Nolan: are you that lonely or just that uneducated to make that silly of a comment for some attention. People can get between 4-6 weeks holidays. Some people have longer to go travel than others. I come home from Canada for a good month a yr God forbid family pass away. Even when I was first in Canada on a one yr work holiday visa I was considered a Canadian resident. I got my citizenship in Feb. This ruling is baffling and will be appealed no doubt. It’s backward beyond belief. Lot of people need to travel for work. To even visit northern Ireland considers them non resident. Give over with your view of entitlement you’re sounding like and old grump
@Michael Nolan: It’s got nothing to do with “People nowadays…” which is about the thickest thing a person can utter in 2019 — as if the world isn’t somehow complex and always changing. You’re either intentionally avoiding, or unable to grasp facts. FACT 1: No one could know this stipulation in advance as the current legislature has previously NEVER been interpreted in this way. FACT 2 Because it’s never been interpreted this way, even the GNIB don’t convey this newly-derived stipulation to applicants. I know, because I deal with them day-in day-out. FACT 3 Many people need to travel for work or medical reasons — would it be better that applicants weren’t working and required state assistance when they want and are capable of contributing to state coffers? Unlike soundbites life’s complex
@Dave Thomas: thats some concise comment dave youv used some big words there il have to look them up
@Michael Nolan: apart from threatening to bomb the fu¥k out or Iran, arming Israel and Saudi Arabia and troops o. The Mexivan border, the world has never been safer.
@Stephen Cumbers: should he just open the borders man u have not got a clue
@Michael Nolan: I do read books and I can also spell correctly.
@Michael Nolan: my partner who I’m due to marry next year is Spanish. He has been working in this country for the past 12 years paying a high amount of taxes . He has spoke to me the past few months about becoming a citizen as we plan to have a family here . Your telling me that as a European citizen that he shouldn’t gi visit his parents for the next year. You some neck
@Stephen Cumbers: it wasn’t trump that armed Israel and that shit with iran has been going on since the fifties as iv said start reading some books or do something about it
@Stephen Cumbers: what has the romans ever done for us type of comment….nice
@Dave Thomas: well thats told me off..i cave dave you got me there…
@Michael Nolan: now we know why you are not the full shilling, a Trump supporter. What a sad person you are
@Dave Thomas: agreed 100%
@Michael Nolan: Troll!
@Lindsey O Connor: its not me saying that im just reiterating what was in the news and u know thats how trump got in by not listening to the disenfranchised..and making personal comments about people shows lack of knowledge on any subject. And fyi i have family abroad but the fn law is the fn law so instead of tearing someone a new 1 why dont u write to you local representative at the trough and see how far u get….now have to go and start job number 2
@Michael Nolan: “…and making personal comments about people shows lack of knowledge on any subject.” Lol, don’t think anyone in this thread could have said it better…
“…but the fn law is the fn law so instead of tearing someone a new 1 why dont u write to you local representative”, or randomly insult people on the Journal.
“You should read some books that have more them 30 pages..” lol
“youv used some big words there il have to look them up”; start with ‘hypocrisy’.
@Michael Nolan: What is wrong with you?
@Michael Nolan: what about emergency situations? I live here and work here for over 10 years. My parents in Germany are in their 80s. If something happened to one of them, I would of course take leave to see to funeral arrangements. So this would immediately qualify as NOT continuous? That’s hardly humane or compassionate.
@Michael Nolan: what a narrow minded and ludicrous mindset! Chapeau!
Fools like you make me laugh out loud!
@Michael Nolan: Hey Michael, I’m Irish and my husband is Canadian. He misses his parents alright but I really wanted to live in Ireland so here we are. He really wants Irish citizenship as he wants to be able to vote and he doesn’t want to constantly have to renew a visa. What do you suggest we do? Say a few prayers that no one in his family dies the year before he applies? Hope to Jesus that his work don’t want to send him on a business trip that year? Like realistically who doesn’t want to spend a whole year in rainy Ireland?! Thankfully there are awful gowls like you that seem to have all the answers!
@Lindsey O Connor: He should not visit a Spanish embassy either as this is a Spanish territory. What an absurd ruling..
@Michael Nolan: People need there families too
@Jacqui Russell: I so agree Jackie I am not in great health now my son who is British and his wife who is awaiting a visa has lived in Ireland for around 8 years can’t visit me with my grandson who is 9 months and I have seen him for eight hours it’s wrong really wrong
Surely there is a difference between “continuous residence” and “continuous presence”.
@Michael Everson: That could possible make a lot of previous citizenships illegal, Perhaps they will deport my wife… Please Please Don’t take her until we clear out her account….
@Michael Everson: So if the courts are now saying the road to Irish citizenship is now based upon some sort of endurance based competition, are people happy with this or what exactly would they prefer to see, if anything?
@Arch Angel: Hardly an endurance, it only applies to non nationals, and tbh, its easy to stay in a country for a year without break. I did it in Wales and France.
@Fen: What if your job sends you to Paris for a week? Again: Residence is not the same thing as presence.
MADNESS!
@sean o’dhubhghaill: This is crazy s#it. Prison Ireland! Well done muppet judge
@sean o’dhubhghaill: Its one step beyond,a joke.
@Tommy C: how is it a prison…you can leave whenever you want.
“Welcome to the Hotel California…”
@sean o’dhubhghaill: yes, did Trump promise something if Ireland takes a cruel and unusual stance with those applying for citizenship? Perhaps immediate deportation by the day after tomorrow or a long spell in jail? The world is going mad
Good… They have been thrown out like confetti the last few years, people who hate ROI even got them no questions asked..
@MickN: all that will happen us it will be appealed to a higher court or emergency legislation will be passed, both options will cost the taxpayer. So no, its not good.
@MickN: that’s some boll-cks your talking there
@MickN: return of investment?
@MickN: Another foreigner pretending to be Irish. Hint: Irish people call our country “Ireland”, only Brits call it “ROI” or “the republic”.
@MickN: you clearly have no clue about the process people undergo here for citizenship, the fees involved that they must pay and the requirements in place.
So if you want irish citizenship you cant go on holiday for a year and none of your family back home can get sick or pass away or get married… Well they can but you cant go because you want to become an irish citizen its an absolute joke
@Karl Charlie: You can go on holiday in Kilkee. And enjoy yourself!
@Dr Richard DeWitt: oxymoron right there!
@Dr Richard DeWitt: maybe not kilkee. Had a. Bad trip there
This seems like a judgement intended to provoke new legislation rather than dealing with some specific issue
@Terry McCabe: could have a point there
Clap clap clap Ireland you’ve done it again…. What a pi££ take to working class people who want to become citizens to the country they live, work create families and pay taxes too.
@Nathan Cunningham: if they dont like it move home a year of inconvenience is Surely worth it..
@Nathan Cunningham: The law applies to every one, irrespective of perceived “class”
Can’t even take a well deserved holiday. With family or friends…
(anyway how will they find out?… GDPR should prevent this information)
@CrabaRev: you are right the law is the law no matter what class you are. But this is rediculas. Anyone should be intitled to become a citizen and simply take a well deserved holiday or attend a family emergency.
@Nathan Cunningham: They request your passport and I presume require your consent to read it.
Every time you fly in your passport is scanned I think so there may be something showing you were outside of the state.
Of course if you go up north there’s no record created (yet).
Bonkers, especially for those who may visit family in the north or UK from time to time.
@WoodlandBard: I think one could argue quite comfortably that the North wouldn’t be classified as outside of Ireland…
@Dr Richard DeWitt: the section in question specifies continuous residence in “the State” not in Ireland. And because the bits relating to nordies being entitled to citizenship all specify “the island of Ireland” I don’t think you could argue that time spent in the north could satisfy the residency requirement.
@Dr Richard DeWitt: Really? I’ve seen a fellow taken off a Belfast Dublin coach because of the terms of his visa. I didn’t question it because I know people who were working here and weren’t allowed to take a city break anywhere in Europe either.
If u want the citizenship bad enough I’m sure u wouldn’t mind waiting 12 months in that country
@ant: what if your job requires foreign travel but you have a house here and pay taxes here – it’s a stupid ruling
@ant: What happens if the applicant for citizenship has had, for any reason, to visit the embassy of another country which has an embassy in Ireland? Embassies, after all, are legally considered to be on the soil of the country they represent, not on the soil of the country in which they stand. Does an applicant for Irish citizenship forfeit his/her application, if he or she happens to be on the staff of the embassy of his or her nation of birth (or if he or she has even simply had to go there to get some paperwork straightened out, perhaps precisely in order to pursue that very pplication for Irish citizenship)?
@ant: But that is ridiculous I am resident (pay a mortgage and all taxes etc) in Ireland but work daily in Newry City. Even if I didn’t work there, I would still probably shop there as it is my nearest town. This doesn’t make any sense at all. Residence is not imprisonment.
@Kate Gladstone: you’re clutching at straws there I’m afraid. I was in the US embassy in Dublin and it didn’t mean I left the country of Ireland….
@Kate Gladstone: exactly! And how about if they work in the US Embassy in Dublin? Sure they’re off to America 5 days a week then and have no hope!
@Abby McSherry: what has Newry got to do with it? It doesn’t qualify under the the ruling. It may if there’s a hard border after brexit though.
Max Barrett must have picked up some waccy baccy from a defendant in one of his cases or something.
Just like “continuous”, “residence” also has dictionary definitions, and they all distinguish residence from a temporary other place one has temporarily removed oneself to. To be honest, he should be required to provide a blood test, or a psych eval, before being allowed back on the bench.
By that definition of the word “residence” almost every single citizen will have committed fraud on any application form
@*The* Brendan Gordon: No. This only applies to naturalised citizens (like me).
This is sick. We have had too many instances of judges knowingly making decisions that will cause distress and suffering and pinning the responsibility for solving it onto the politicians. This could take years to sort out. This judge is playing games of jurisprudence with the lives of ordinary people.
@Richard Barrett: That’s one way of looking at it. I see it more as finetuning it now so that people aren’t in trouble later on. A law needs to be workable.
@Richard Barrett: I so agree it means my son who is British his wife who is from Kazakhstan who has lived in Ireland for seven years and cannot visit me with their baby and I am not in good health she has had to cancel visiting her parents in Montenegro we are all heartbroken
Does this means that ‘Asylum Seekers’ from Nigeria won’t be heading back home for their holidays this year…?
So if this ruling is upheld by the supreme court, which isn’t impossible, will those granted citizenship who can be shown to have left the country in the year leading up to it have their citizenship revoked and they’ll have to reapply? Even if emergency legislation is put in place can it act retroactively? What an absolute disaster. But you can’t blame the judge for interpreting the law so directly. It’s badly written legislation.
@Toomasu Sumitsu: You can bet your life whichever option costs the taxpayer the most and makes the situation the most complicated will be the one chosen by the idiots in charge.
This is crazy to say the least – it means people are not allowed to go on a business-trip for even a day? How many companies would be affected if they can’t send their employees to a meeting to London/Paris/etc etc just because these employees want to apply for citizenship??? Would that be compatible with the terms of free movement within the EU (in case of people from an EU country) or can the North not be excluded (as leaving the country) under the Good Friday agreement???
what !! so people on work permits such as doctors and IT that required high qualified and who travel lots during the year, will ever qualified for Irish citizen and those who have no work !! will automatically qualified if they did not leave the country within a year, that s smart
When did Ireland become a country of illogical judicial judgements…
@Terry McCabe: When you start to take the rights away from the most vulnerable in society, there are natural consequences.
The Garda Commissioner granted Irish Citizenship only last year. What will happen to him.
@Mary Nugent: anyone born on the island of Ireland, north and south, is entitled to Irish citizenship.
@EillieEs: I know that but the question stands I am waiting for my step child Citizenship over a year now
This is an INSANE interpretation and ruling
This is a complete mis-representation of the word ‘residence’. If my holidays and work trips are legally deemed as being ‘non-resident’ then I look forward to taking that ruling to the Revenue Commissioners to claim back all the tax I’m owed for periods where I was non-resident but still paying tax.
God love anyone who has to rush up to Cavan hospital in the middle of the night from Monaghan and takes the Clones Road, they have to enter the North twice. Seems a bit ridiculous.
What happens if the applicant for citizenship has had, for any reason, to visit the embassy of another country which has an embassy in Ireland? Embassies, after all, are legally considered to be on the soil of the country they represent, not on the soil of the country in which they stand. Does an applicant for Irish citizenship forfeit his/her application, if he or she happens to be on the staff of the embassy of his or her nation of birth (or if he or she has even simply had to go there to get some paperwork straightened out, perhaps precisely in order to pursue that very pplication for Irish citizenship)?
@Kate Gladstone: Great point. I hadn’t thought of that at all. You spend long enough queuing in embassies that it’s no sort of holiday, that’s for sure.
I live here but often take a holiday, should I give my passport back
Ah Irish judges
@Thomas Harrington: maybe we should elect our judges. Electing politicians has been a great success.
The LAW is the LAW – I agree with the Judgement – If you want in follow the rules of our nation – Look across the pond the US are following their law and deporting an Irish Citizen ……
@Joseph Keegan: the law is, indeed, the law. Well spotted. The law needs to be interpreted by a judge, and to date, no judge has interpreted this law in this way. So what is it that you agree with, this new never been seen before interpretation? Because I would put it to you, that you only agree with this interpretation because (now hear me out), you don’t like dem foreigners becoming citizens. The alternative would be that you genuinely think it’s reasonable to change the rules of a process which takes several years and several thousand euro to go through, mid way through that process… Actually I can’t finish that sentence, there’s no reasonable reason someone could think that. You’re just a xenophobe.
@Joseph Keegan: If the law is the law then I assume that you won’t have a problem with refunding these people any tax they paid for the year in which they were not resident in the country.
Shocking! Can’t believe even in today’s world such foolish and insensible decisions can be made. This rule HAS to change.
@Vishwajeet Vibhute: No it doesn’t it is our country and our laws …..
@Joseph Keegan: well I’m born and bred in Ireland and I don’t like it one bit. Backward ruling so I object to the whole our country and laws bs. Never broke a law? Unknowingly or by mistake? Yeah you prob did.
@Joseph Keegan: Things change. I wasn’t born in the 50s when it was written. We change laws constantly to reflect societal changes
Finally a judge with extremities. Good ruling.
Does this means Nigerian ‘Asylum Seekers’ won’t be headed back home for the holidays this year…?
I’m an employee, I’ve signed a year lease contract, I’ve paid my rent, I’ve paid my taxes. My kid goes to a school in Bray, I’ve got Irish driving license. So I go to London for a meeting and a week holiday in Spain, I’m no longer “continuously residing” in Ireland according to an act of 1956, even before Ireland joined the EU in 1973. It Sounds like interpreting a Bible versicle
Anyone know what the irish wording of the law is as may have a slightly different meaning.
Ludicrous.
What is so frustrating about this is that passports are available to those of Irish descent who may never have even set foot in the State. And those of us who have no other home but Ireland will continue to be outsiders.
Support the petition to oppose this: http://chng.it/xBrYtF8jYT
Sure many foreigners left Ireland and sold their PRSI. numbers to their friends to use until they come back to reap the harvest .
@William Mcgee: you’re talking about European citizens who are not Irish and therefore won’t need to get the Irish citizenship. Ignorance has no limits.
It’s not that hard, 12 months shouldn’t be a “shock”
@Joey O’Halloran: in theory you are right, but it is not that simple. Applicants have families, relatives. You wouldn’t be happy about it if your application became invalid, just because you attend on your fathers funeral. Maybe it is too harsh example. Let’s say visiting a sick parent or relative in the birth country.
@Joey O’Halloran: it’s not that harsh i agree.However they can’t just make a snap decision like that jeopardizing all current applications.Let everyone know ahead of time what the conditions are so people can decide if they are up for it and/or can do it.Generally people like to go on Holidays and such.Of course i could go without a Holiday for a year if they told me about it.I submitted my application in February this year(living here the past 10 years)and wouldn’t like to be told no just because i took 1 week of holiday twice last year.
So the applicant is being denied his/her EU right to travel for 12 months?
Indeed, absurd.
what !! so people on work permits such as doctors and IT that required high qualified and who traveling lots during the year, will ever qualified for Irish citizen and those who have no work !! will automatically qualified if they did not leave the country within a year , wow.. that s smart :)
Geez lads, if ye were in Australia or America trying to get citizenship ye would know all about difficulties. Ireland is a breeze compared to other countries to obtain it. Stop complaining
@ant: Applied for Irish citizenship have we Ant and can actually support that statement?
So anyone applying for citizenship isn’t allowed a holiday, or to visit a dying relative, attend a wedding or funeral. Ridiculous.
Just remember that the “shock legal opinion” interpreted residing outside the state as visiting abroad for a day, which the judgement did not mention at all! If you retain your home address and work address in Ireland, then you can go on holiday as often as you want (bar that tied with the legal residency rules for tax). No shock here, just usual media rubbish.
The interpretation is insane, but on some level I understand the decision. We shouldn’t forget that applications raised 35% in the last year (I might be wrong about the right percentage). In perspective getting citizenship in Ireland is easy (five years) compared to Germany where you need to be resident 10 years long and you need to take exam.
Sounds like this ruling could be challenged fairly easily in the EU courts under Human Rights policies? “There are two main streams of human rights policy and action within the European Union. One is to protect the fundamental human rights for EU citizens, and the other is to promote human rights worldwide.” https://europa.eu/european-union/topics/human-rights_en
They can’t legally take back already issued citizenships because there are only few legal grounds for that, one of them is if you cheated. And this was not cheating because they requested a list of all absences from the State for every application. So that was their “fault” they granted applications and there is no legal ground to revoke them.
I would love to see any citizen of this Island spend a full unbroken year on this rock that often gets truly miserable conditions and NIMBY leadership. In this age of cheap travel, that’s a hard ask for many to think about.
This is just there way cutting back on irish citizenship. Have no proplem if they earn there citizenship by working and paying taxes. If they don’t work and claim social welfare or committed serious crimes they shouldnt be rewarded irish citizenship.
@Ba Cr: citizenship is not awarded if you have committed serious crimes.
Good.
so people on work permits such as doctors and IT that required high qualified and who travel lots during the year, will ever qualified for Irish citizen and those who have no work, will automatically qualified if they did not leave the country within a year, that s smart
I had a young relative who had gone to Australia and wished to stay there and obtain citizenship in the future. His father died in a freak accident back home in Ireland but he was told that if he left the country, even for a funeral, that he could not return. That was 11 years ago and he is still here. He is now too old to reapply.
@John Hagin Meade: There’s the thing John, people here were not told that they cant leave. Its stated nowhere on the citizenship forms
People with high jobs are paying taxes and supporting Irish economy and they cannot to be made hostile in the country for one year. Some work abroad and pay more taxes. It’s a sick and conservative mentality. If state is getting benefits from the skills of the people who they even invested a penny deserves the state support. Either Irish government declares like gulf countries they there is no citizenship is granted then people double think before investing their 5-7 years of precious life years. People who are in this situation can’t go back, can’t leave job and can’t stop flying abroad for work purposes. If state is enjoying taxes from all this foreign talent they must have big heart to give them support as well. It’s seems a sick decision from this sick judge. Hope it’ll be turned soon
Non sense!
To be able to continue doing what I’m doing in the best way, I need to attend conferences, courses and meetings.
Should I stop that and compromise my performance to get the residency?
The law is saying you must not leave the state for 12 months during or before the citizenship application. If this is such a hard task well dont bother applying. The process is the same in the USA and i do believe its for more than a year and im sure other countries have a similar process. I can’t see what the problem is.
@Kieran Murray: Visiting a foreign embassy can be also considered as not being present in the state because embassies are formally a foreign territory. We do not necessarily need everything they have in great America. We should start looking for an inspiration in central and eastern european countries which are often more mature and democratic.
@Kieran Murray: US aint part of a single market like the EU though fella. Not the same argument when many people working here in multinationals need to visit UK offices or training courses in EU countries etc for a day here or there as part of their job (a job they need to have in order to obtain citizenship)
The minister has broken the law in granting citizenship according to this judgment.
really so people on work permits such as doctors and IT that required high qualified and who travel lots during the year, will ever qualified for Irish citizen and those who have no work !! will automatically qualified if they did not leave the country within a year, that s smart
This is the exact reason we had to amend the constitution for the marriage referendum so one idiot judge couldn’t interpret a word in their own way. Residence means to have a permanent home. So define permanent does that mean they could never have a home. Under that interpretation they could never leave the country or would lose their citizenship as it wasn’t their permanent home and shouldn’t have got it in the first place.
To be fair, everybody has to pop home now and then to get the few essentials!
so people on work permits such as doctors and IT that required high qualified and who travel lots during the year, will ever qualified for Irish citizen and those who have no work !! will automatically qualified if they did not leave the country within a year, that s smart
Sign the petition
Its lool like judges wife is from Brazil and he doesn’t want her to live in Ireland anymore.
what !! so people on work permits such as doctors and IT that required high qualified and who traveling lots during the year, will ever qualified for Irish citizen and those who have no work !! will automatically qualified if they did not leave the country within a year , wow.. that s smart
@Mohamed Farouq: Those high qualified people who need to travel could always go and live in the UK and apply for UK citizenship or France. Getting citizenship of another country is not a right, and the rules they have in place, even if they are difficult to follow are not stupid.
If my work means I can not apply to be a Russian citizen, then I do not apply to be Russian citizen, whats the problem?
@Fen: I’m sorry to burst your xenophobic bubble, but getting a citizenship in another country IS indeed a right. I hear this BS argument a lot “getting a citizenship is not a right, it’s a privilege”, well, the privilege is to be born in a place and inheriting a bunch of unearned rights xD
Residency has to mean where you are naturally domiciled for everyday existence and where you pay taxes. However, if the laws says, DON’T leave the state in the last one year, I think its doable so long as they can accommodate those who can prove travelling is essential for their livelihood. Its a small price to pay to be admitted into the coveted Irish citizenship really. I don’t see what the hullabaloo is for tbh.
The judge is right. Staying in a country for a year non stop isn’t that hard, I have done 5 or 6 years without break, and did 1 year non stop in Wales, and 1 year non stop in France.
But bleeding heart liberals will make a law for the edge case scenarios and apply it to everyone. They will find some guy or girl with a sob story about some really sad reason they could only be in Ireland for 1 day out of the last year, and eventually the law will say they just have to find Ireland on a map and they can become an Irish citizen.
@Fen: Think about the practicalities. I assume you’re not familiar with the process and requirements, but depending on your country of origin, you must present legal documents that if there’s no embassy in Ireland, you’d have to travel to your country to get them. This is just one of the facts that make this ruling absurd. Now, if you think that your lifestyle, career path, studies, professional life, etc. represent that of thousands of immigrants living in Ireland, then you can conclude who is also “absurd”.
So no holidays or trips with work abroad allowed, ridiculous.
It would make way more sense to have tests checking the knowledge about the country’s history and culture, and of course the level of English instead, like they do in the UK – I know foreigners with poor English who’ve got their citizenship here…
@Aga Grandowicz: why would you need to demonstrate such knowledge? If those were key factors, Irish descendants born and raised abroad wouldn’t qualify to be Irish citizens. Moreover, Irish would be the main language, not English, so there’s that.
How would they know if one crossed the border lol :D
Sounds like a fake post.
The issue is about being resident, which is specific, as opposed to residency, which is general. It is a moot point but I believe the judge is right; it needs amendment, specifying exceptions.
Maybe that Justice should look up the definition of being ‘resident’ as well!
It is not the role of the Courts to make new law. Their function is to interpret the law as down by the legislature. The learned judge heard all the arguments and decided to interpret the law as requiring applicants for citizenship to be present continuously in the state for the 12 months prior to the application. It is the role of the legislature to deal with any fallout from the judgement by enacting new legislation to specifically allow applicants to be absent from the state for a specified period of time. We should not be seeking to have this corrected by the Supreme Court on appeal.
@Eli Fant: Incorrect. Law in Ireland can be created by judicial precedence. it’s called judicial law, or common law. In this case it’s incredibly st*pid common law, that can be overturned either by an appeal to a higher court, or a change in statute law (statute law has precedence over common law, just as constitutional law has precedence over statute law)
So, I’ve been living in Ireland for 6 years, due to my March holiday in Norway, I am not eligible for it then, If I apply, 150€ are requested and, if the application is declined, that money is not refunded. That’s good politics, like in Italy, where I am from. Good politics was meant to be ironic.
Continuous residence is not the same as continuous presence. Absence from the state for one day or a short holiday cant break someone’s residence in the country.
I wouldn’t worry about it, the government will step in and “fix” this. Separation of powers when it suits
I think Justice Barrett is up to no good here, he’s trying to force the government’s hand at altering the naturalization process. How could anyone interpret such a strict definition of continuous residence?
Presumably this could prevent refugees from going back to their country of origin for holidays? ….
If that goes to the Supreme Court for review and they agree, it cannot be challenged legally ever…dangerous, very dangerous!
The law is an ass
“If the law supposes that,” said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, “the law is a ass — a idiot. If that’s the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is, that his eye may be opened by experience — by experience.”
If you were living in Co. Donegal, you’d be leaving the country every time you got the bus to Dublin, although it might be ok if you stayed on the bus, your feet wouldn’t touch the ground in another country…
Yet another reason why the legislature in this country need to be reformed. It’s rulings like this that make them look like idiots.
Precisely my son is married to a girl from Russia she came to study English for two summers where we live in the UK she then studied architecture in Dublin they are married they have a baby I have seen him for 8 hours I’m not in good health right now she was going to meet her parents in Montenegro she was so looking forward to it she is young with a baby has lived in Ireland for about 7 years they can’t visit me either this is just so wrong she adds to Irish society my son runs a company there they are very happy but devastated by this ruling and I am heartbroken
It is very likely such interpretation will be overturned on appeal (if appealed); the case itself relates to someone who was not in the state for 3months(the case may never be appealed), the judge thrown caution out off the wind, and delved into the Arena of conflict, completely forgot various interpretations rules, ignored the intendment of the law maker, now creating new threshold. Perhaps people can now argued not residing in the State for 2 weeks while on Holiday, Taxes paid to Revenue should be refunded. Weird Judgment!
Yet again… the Judiciary seem to have a stranglehold. They took over public liability cases and made them obscene, now this. Enough is enough.
This article has been read a quarter of a million times. Why?
@Robbie Clancy: well why did you read it?
That’s holidays f….d as well as shopping at Christmas in Newry lol.
have your say