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THE PRACTICE OF ‘clocking’ a car is soon to be banned in Ireland, if an amendment to the Road Traffic (No 2) Bill 2013 is accepted.
Fine Gael TD for Kildare North, Anthony Lawlor, has said that he is very pleased that his proposal to make it an offence to clock a car is being adopted by the Minister for Transport, Leo Varadkar TD, through an amendment to the bill.
The amendment to the bill, which is due to be tabled this week in the Dáil, will make it an offence to interfere with the odometer of a vehicle.
Lawlor initially introduced this through a Private Members Bill in December 2012. He said that the need to deal with the practice of clocking cars was initially brought to his attention by Cartell.ie, a Kildare based company which provides vehicle history to consumers and dealers.
He said that the company “made me aware of the dangers of clocked cars, as they give a false sense of security to motorists in terms of the quality of their vehicle and hoodwink consumers into buying altered goods”.
The amendment being introduced at Report Stage by the Minister will make it an offence for someone to interfere with the odometer, or procure someone to do so, and if found guilty will face a fine of up to €5,000 or up to three months in jail. This is a practical change to the law which will make our roads safer and ensure quality goods are being sold in all motor dealerships.
Minister Varadkar noted in November of last year that there was a draft EU Regulation on periodic roadworthiness tests for vehicles being discussed by both the Council and the Parliament at the time.
“The present text provides that each Member State will take the necessary measures to ensure that manipulating an odometer will be punishable by effective and proportionate penalties,” he said.
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This isn’t currently illegal??
Well u know exactly where u can go.
No it is not but it is an offence to sell a vehicle knowing that mileage has been tampered with or to imply that mileage shown is genuine when seller knows it is not.
No. Not illegal. You can turn the millage back in your own car or indeed anyone’s car if they ask you to and it’s not breaking the law.
However, if you then sell the car without informing the new owner what the correct odometer reading should be, and you perhaps then try to pass it off as a lower millage car, that’s illegal.
So the act of interferring with it at the moment is not illegal.
6 tweets, all today, set up a fake account. Get a life
Well I would have used a different word to describe Ireland but you’re not wrong .
Red thumbs on the left lads :)
What’s yours.
So, I clock my car, ‘sell it’ to a friend. Friend sells the car. Friend doesn’t know car is clocked.
Quite a hard statement to prove that the mileage has been tampered with, let alone that it was done by the one who sold you the car in the first place and not by the any of the previous owners.
This wasn’t illegal already?
What you don’t clock your car? I knock 50k miles off my clock every January., Its great
I’m in minus figures at this stage
Stop reversing then
“Could be banned”
Only in Ireland !!
“Yearing” not “Clocking” is the scandal ….
Pre-2008 car owners are subsidising NEW car owner’s road tax.
€951 to tax a 10 year old car.
€280 to tax a NEW luxury car equivalent.
Daft Irish car tax system …. this needs new legislation.
What “luxury” car is €280 tax??
(Please note, only in North Korea would a beemer 520D be “luxury”)
Audi A4 2l diesel €230 p.a
It’s motor emissions tax not road tax. Newer cars give off less fumes. It’s pretty easy to understand.
It’s actually just Motor Tax assessed on the basis of “Private Car CO2″ or “Private Car Standard” and to be fair a well looked after and regularly serviced car will give off less fumes too.
Pure BS about lower fumes. If they cared so much about the environment then new cars would have no tax at all. Its a big scam.
Fully agree it’s a scam but what i’m saying is correct.
http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/New_car_CO2_quarterly_update.png
http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/New_car_CO2_change_2000_2012.png
It’s actually Motor Tax…..pre ’08 (July?) based on engine size, and on emissions since…saying newer cars give off less emissions isn’t factual. Identical ’07 and ’09 cars give off the same emissions but could have €300/€400 in the difference for Motor Tax.
If newer cars give off lower emissions them why is it cheaper to tax a commercial than say a passenger of the same year? Example 2007 commercial lwb land cruiser 3L €333. 2007 passenger LWB land cruiser 3L approx €1300!
Motor Tax: 2010 Toyota Prius €190 for the year.
Pre July 2008 ToyotaPrius €480 for the year.
Not sure about other makes.
My 2003 Renault Clio cost €450 per year.
Commercial vehicles are always going to be cheaper because they are for that purpose! You don’t need a landcruiser for dropping the kids to school or doing the weekly shop! They are supposed to be for farmers/ trades people etc. People with an actual commercial need for that kind of vehicle.
I was replying to Mitch’s comment regarding tax been cheaper on new cars due to emissions, clearly emissions are not the reason as whether commercial or passenger both vehicles of same year can’t be that different on their emission output. In my experience as a commercial vehicle owner, I would do more mileage than a passenger of same make doing the school run.
Wrong! Identical cars before and after 2008 are taxed differently. It’s pretty easy to understand. Tax should be on fuel, not the vehicle.
I’d need to see a great deal of solid evidence before I accept that manufacturing and shipping a new car produces LESS carbon than the difference between its emissions and those generated by running an older car for a few more years.
This is a stimulus measure for the motor industry, nothing more. That’s fine in its own way, but at least be honest and admit that its a regressive tax imposed to support one sector of the economy.
It’s cheap tax from janurary 08, but what most people don’t no is that any car that has the low emissions installed from June 07, u can apply for the cheap tax ang get it, spread the word as this is somthing that the government WON’T tell you!
Bring in a relatively new Prius from the UK only €500 VRT
Sorry if this is a silly question but what do you mean? How would I apply for the cheaper tax? My car is 07
Your selection of the impact of the new taxation system since 2008 is not the full picture. Equally, there are people whose road tax would go up in price under the 2008 pricing, e.g. people with large petrol engines as they give off more CO2 than diesel engines. When they purchased their car they didn’t know the pricing would change so it was considered to be unfair to then increase their road tax using a model they didn’t know existed. It would, however, make sense that anybody buying a used car pre 2008 should avail of the new pricing and this is the category I fell into when I bought my 2007 diesel car. But I’d say then there would be a lot of loop holes if this happened, .e.g a husband could just transfer the car’s ownership to his wife and so it’d look like the car had been sold and then in that way get the tax decrease.
@Mary Kavanagh! True Mary and if you bought the car on June 30 then you would have paid more tax than if you waited one day yet the emissions from the car didn’t change
@selfsustainable Yes, of course, but your millage is for work. Not leisure. big difference
In answer to the whole 08 car situation. There had to be a line drawn somewhere so the government choose the same year emissions were brought into the equation. An Audi A4 (type 8E) is the model that ran from 2004 – 2008. Type 8K is from 2008 to present. Clearly you could have registered either model in 2008 and you would have got the lower tax although the 8K is releases less CO2.
Unless we stopped selling cars for an entire year to facilitate this law change this is inevitable. Try comparing the Mazda 3 1.6 Diesel (2008 model) with the 2012 model and the tax is clearly different.
2008 = €517
2012 = €200
its not rocket science!
The UK did the correct thing and left older car tax at the low rates.
It rightly incentivised ONLY new car purchasers to purchase low CO2 cars.
This happened because the British citizens objected strongly to penalising those who could not afford new cars. UK MPs were in fact about to do like the Irish TDs did but they were stopped.
The Irish just lie down and take it.
The car dealer lobby won and forced a new law that artificially promoted the purchase of new cars … in a country that does not manufacture cars …. daft .. there is another word for it!
(You have a right to remain silent but I don’t recommend it …. bring your brains to the polling station when you VOTE)
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http://www.cartaxpetition.net
The amount of clocked cars going up on donedeal over the next few weeks will be shocking
The mileage should be reported on the nct
It is already
Considering the article before about paying for an Nct cert , I can’t imagine it’s hard to get away with it .
It’s on the NCT cert alright but if you look up a car on the likes of cartel, it only gives you dates of NCT and not mileage. My old car was on Donedeal a few weeks ago with 88,000 miles on it, I sold it back in 2011 with 105,000. You may pay more at a dealer but you have some comeback as you can ask them to record odometer reading on sale slip as been genuine, if they refuse, well you’re then a fool to buy the car.
I’m into motorbikes and there’s no test on them but I’ve seen friends buying bikes with X amount of miles on them and then looking at them you would know straight away they where clocked . It’s madness.
could be banned!!!! WTF
Corrupt Ireland strikes again.
Nope. Currently it’s up to you what numbers you display on your own dashboard. The only issue is selling a car that’s misleading.
The technical terms are odometer repair or re calibration…..there is a great story about a lad who opened the dash of a golf gti some years ago to find a post-it stuck to the back of the clocks with the words “oh no, not again” written on it!!
Hahahaha thanks for that, very witty!
Biggest scam ever is the NCT, one company has the Monopoly and can charge what they like. At least in the UK you can take your car to your local MOT registered garage and get it done for a reasonable fee and they won’t try and screw you over.
Gotta say I disagree here, I find the NCT tells me what needs fixing and no more. Sure, it’s a monopoly, which is a shame, but at least that makes it consistent which in H&S is somewhat needed… MOT was notorious for passing people on a nod and a wink (though much better now).
And NCT were always right. Generally got good advice on what’s going to need work in the not-so-distant future too…
And that doesn’t happen here, no? Have a look –
http://www.cartell.ie/2011/05/applus-report-nct-bribery-claims-to-gardai/ and
http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2011/0518/2961142-ncts-dismisses-three-employees/
Just had my car nct’d and the only thing wrong was that my dipped headlights were not completely aligned. Spoke to a friend and she had the exact same this week, €55 to test the car then another €28 to retest because they use the machine to retest the lights. Utter scam artists they are.
So you’re one of those drivers that has been driving around blinding other drivers with your incorrectly focused lights yeah? Shame on the NCT for pointing it out.
I turn mine back every 7,000 miles. Saves doing an oil change and service.
This is the land of saints and scholars, nobody would dream of clocking their car.
Some type of frauds are still legal….That is a new one on me.
@Ryleigh
Does your partner know that you post with her eye as your profile?
Yes…she posts using a close up of my smile…which I find kind of cool and sexy at the same time.
Such a waste of an eye and nice smile, tragic :(
whenever i cant deliver the goods my excuse to the ladies is that its not the years but its the mileage!!!
a lot of blood needed to fill 15 inches
the Voice Id add you but im not into ladyboys hahahhaa
its a bug in facebook i maled zukerberg about it !!! geddit i ‘male’d zuckerberg hahahahahahahaah
God Im fast . green thumbs if you aggree!!!! hahaha
hey voice if im on facebook post the link haha!
Hahahaha
I like you Steven, have a green thumb.
How does this work when restoring a car that uses all parts, incl clocks, from another car and an engine from a different one again?
im guessing fill in an application to the Dept of Transport, and yes i know sounds like a money making scheme, but doesn’t that sound like the right thing to do to make it legal?
Yes that’s it, change of engine, engine number must be notified to dept.
But what mileage does the clocks show? That of the engine, the restored car or the donor car?
Never having done this I am not sure but donor engine I’d imagine or there is something about selling vehicle ‘mileage unknown’. Sorry to be vague on this m
Clocks show the milage of the donor car
Clocking isn’t illegal, but knowingly selling a clocked car is … Its only become illegal in the UK recently
Only got 2 done last week! In before the lockdown :-)
what a load a tosh. ban off road bikes from mountains and coilte forests. and ban 4 wheel drives from offroad areas like the ballyhoura mountans… fine gael are full of crap
…
What?
will i type in capitals or will i buy you a hearing aid
you would like off road vehicles banned from off road areas? any point of having an offroader then?
Cut out biscuits
NO!!!! after the storms we’ve seen what off roaders cause thru Global warming.
off roaders should feel ashamed what they indirectly caused to lahinch in clare
Yeah, thats’s exactly it. All the Land Cruiser’s and Range Rovers went out a swim in the Atlantic and caused massive waves and storms. Go back to making love to your Prius
Actually I live in Dublin and only drive a 1.6
1.6 is still too big. car tax on 1.6 should be 1000 euros
1.6 is actually quite a small engine size if you compare to most other countries in the planet
never!!! after the storms we had people are going to have to give up there cars..beside 50 years ago no one had cars…people are just going to have to get used to cycling and walking again!
Your parents / head of cabbage should be taxed ………
Steven… someone would want to tax the amount of CO2 you’re blowing!!
Good one Steven, since the fact of the matter is that you haven’t given one good argument all night
ronan no use giving out to me this is the way its going to be soon…petrol prices are going to be double next year so most people wont be able to drive soon anyway.. i dont care cause im not a peasant so i can afford it
the language of an uneducated fool who has no idea how to spell
So you have a car stavan ? I wish you were real stav , you’re too funny to be though . Some day we’ll find a real lunatic .. bye stuevin ……
Agree with your argument up to a point Stephen but can I ask you a question, which creates most pollution in an hour; all the vehicles on irish roads or the war machinery being operated by UK or Germany?
So there was no cars in 1964? I think most people would disagree with that statement. Also I for one will never give up my car for some silly environmentalists.
So if clocking is banned what will the Eastern Europeans here do with their clapped out audis and passats. Maybe clean them twice a day instead of once or add some more l.e.d. lights onto the car?? Would be devastating for them if clocking was banned but probably worse if lidl stopped selling cheap car maintenance tat.
Stephen maybe you should spend more time researching and less time voicing “your do called facts” Unlike many other countries around the world, Ireland are making a decent effort to reduce their carbon footprint. If you are so interested in reducing global warning through social media maybe you should focus your attention on countries like China that are not signing up to Kyoto Protocol because they do not want to hamper the growth of their industry.
Welcome to the 20th century, Ireland.
It’s the fuel gauge I keep tampering with, but sadly I’m not getting any more miles per gallon!
As Mama used to say “If it looks too good to be true, it probably is”……
Clocking is illegal end of. What sort of people are writing these articles ffs. Advice to anyone reading this. Delete the journal app . Cant fcuking believe im reading this article. Journal.ie= job for the boys. Good bye journal.i DELETED.
Country will ban us walking soon!
I thought that was covered under the Trades Descriptions Act at the very least. Surely it’s fraud to pass off a car with high mileage as having lower mileage?!
I don’t believe this …… Clocking a vehicle mileage is not legal here…… How far behind the world are we really. !!!!
Criminals have been getting plenty of mileage out this for years.
I’ve a question. Car had full battery drain over Xmas. Digital odometer kept it’s reading when prob was fixed. Why couldn’t the rest of the digital settings be kept too I wondered!? How’s that possible when 0 power the digital odometer reading stays put???!
Its stored in the ECU.
Ahh cheers! Pity they couldn’t store my radio settings in there too :-)
A lot of cars since 2009 have more than 4 Ecu’s and mileage is stored in each of them. Not in just display and body module/Ecu but in areas like brake, airbag, cabin control modules. Thats how some people have been caught out. BMW since 2010 have aTransponder that records on keys as well.
Maybe I should of been more careful, my comment was directed at the unionist that is on a few articles abusing Ireland and it’s people
A good tactic which might sound to simple but it works because if someone is lying and you ask the right question they will tell the truth.
Went to see a car for sale in Dundalk, the owner lives in Dundalk, 3 years old, 65000 Km in the odometer, relatively low mileage.
Asked the owner about usage and he says ” I use it to drive to work, go to the shops and the odd trips”
Asked the owner where does he works and he said “in Dublin”
You do the maths as he did.
It’s just going to be more expensive to do it.
Friend once bought a big old merc, took the dash out and on the back of the clock was written ‘oh no not again’.
Yeah I thought this was an offence already
Most of the English cars on the market here is clocked. Irish people should buy genuine used irish cars where they can contact the previous owner for the history. And keep jobs on the go. It is terrible to see the amount off car dealerships closed down in the country. But we have only ourselves to blame. It would only happen I guarantee the British government would not stand up and let that amount of imported used cars into there country.
All motor vehicles. should have the current mileage/kilometres logged on the certificate of origin at each change of ownership .
“Could”be banned?
have your say