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Protesters and peace activists on boats with flags at the Ha'penny bridge and the river Liffey over the government's Consultative Forum on International Policy is taking place today.
Consultative Forum
Day three at the Security Forum: talks turn to Nato as neutrality protests continue
Day Three of the Consultative Forum on International Security Policy was held in Dublin Castle today with Nato on the agenda.
BY NOW THE consultative forum on international security has developed a theme for the day’s events – protestors meet delegates at the entrance to the gathering and then a smattering of people opposed to Nato make pronouncements from the floor.
The running order begins with forum chair Louise Richardson setting up the programme and then it has become routine that a member of the public interjects from the floor with a prepared script lambasting the forum for taking place.
The declaration is either anti-Nato, stating that neutrality is the solution or that the citizens’ assembly is a better option to discuss the issue – often it is all three.
The civil servants managing the event step forward and attempt to gently convince the speaker to sit down but the commentators get their say and then leave – either with the insistence of gardaí as in Cork or under their own steam as in Galway and Dublin.
The day then settles down and the gathered room of experts in defence, security and diplomacy get down to discussions but it is impossible to separate the outbursts from the calm policy explanations.
Dublin Castle today was no different – Taoiseach Leo Varadkar was confronted by two protestors who spoke at length about “Biden’s war in Ukraine” and other topics. Other speakers from the the floor voiced some well-known security conspiracy theories even before the session broke for tea and coffee at 11am.
Sometimes the gathered delegates giggle at the protestors, other times there are jeers – other audience members cheer and clap. Only in Cork was their a true effort to halt proceedings – in Galway and now in Dublin the protests are polite affairs.
Protester Peter Dooley (black shirt) making his point as Taoiseach Leo Varadkar was speaking at Dublin Castle. Norma Burke
Norma Burke
Soon after the anti-forum interventions the event returns to the mundane minutiae of international foreign policy and defence.
For all the world it is two events in one – people with strong held beliefs on Nato have their say and then the second event is an academic dissection of international security.
Today’s event saw James Mackey attend – he is Nato’s Director of Security Policy and Partnerships.
Ireland is in a robust relationship with the alliance and is a participant in the Partnership for Peace initiative in which non Nato members can cooperate with the organisation on various projects.
Mackey, speaking during the panel discussions, laid it out clearly that Ireland’s membership of the alliance is not a prospect.
“What I can say is in 20 years of working at Nato headquarters in Brussels, the issue of Irish membership in Nato has not once been discussed, has never come up because Ireland is a sovereign, independent nation and it chooses its own security policy,” he said.
Mackey is keen to stress that tens of millions of European citizens have made the “sovereign choice” to join the Alliance.
“Because they believe that is in the best interests of their security, they were not forced to do so at gunpoint. They chose that through democratic processes,” he added.
Nato official James Mackey speaking at the event in Dublin Castle. Norma Burke
Norma Burke
Mackey said that in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine that there have been a number of countries applying to join because of “concerns about Russian imperialism”.
The Nato official paid particular attention, in his comments to the delegates, about the importance of the relationship between Nato and the European Union.
“I think the EU brings a very different and, actually, complementary set of tools which is also why we have focused so hard on trying to make sure that there is a strong complementary relationship between Nato and the EU,” he said.
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Mackey said the key projects that Nato and the EU will work together on will be the rebuilding of Ukraine after the war and also the securing of critical undersea infrastructure.
That relationship with the European Union was also discussed in an other discussion on Ireland’s role in the EU’s Common Security and Defence Policy.
Cáit Moran, Ireland’s Ambassador to the Political and Security Committee of the European Union, spoke about the Irish Government’s involvement in various EU projects.
Moran said that Irish neutrality is not seen as an impediment by fellow European states in dealing with Ireland and that the State is heavily involved in shaping policy at EU level.
“I would see our contribution is in shaping policy development and looking at the monitoring of it and developing checks and balances and having debate when there is a review of policies,” she said.
Moran, in an insight into how diplomats shape the response to crises, said the priority in the European Commission was particularly looking at individual issues using multiple mechanisms to find a solution.
She added: “It is important that common security defence policy is one instrument, one part of Ireland’s foreign policy. There are many instruments and it is important for Ireland in particular to emphasise both a comprehensive approach and that we take an integrated approach.
“When we sit in our meetings we are not just looking at a single action, we are looking at the whole of a situation.”
There were also contributions on panels from various non-aligned neutral countries.
People listen to speeches during the third day of the Consultative Forum on International Security Policy at Dublin Castle. Alamy Stock Photo
Alamy Stock Photo
Two Swiss delegates spoke about how their country views their neutrality.
Joachim Adler, Head of Defence Policy and Operations at the Federal Department for Defence said that it was his view that neutrality is beneficial in peace building but it depends on the context of what country they are dealing with.
He spoke of the efforts to bring peace to the Balkan region, particularly Kosovo, stating that Swiss neutrality was beneficial in that instance.
Another Swiss delegate Laurent Goetschel, Professor of Political Science at the University of Basel and Director of Swisspeace, spoke of his country’s pragmatic approach to non-alignment.
“Neutrality is not a religion it is a foreign policy – neutrality is only associated with foreign policy relationships and must be handled within the interests of the state,” he said.
Finnish delegates also spoke about why their country moved from neutrality.
Johanna Sumuvuori, Former State Secretary to the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Finland, said that enhanced co-operation with Nato had been a reality for Finland for a long period of time while being neutral.
Sumuvuori said that Finland moved towards Nato because of the dramatic increase in public support in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
“It really wasn’t anything new to us to discuss this – I have to say that the general public’s support for Nato membership by Finland before 24 February (the beginning of the war in Ukraine) was at 28 per cent – it then started to shift really dramatically week on week and it now sits today at 80% support,” she said.
The Finnish politician said that as this happened politicians reacted to the rise in public support and wrote a white paper to decide on the next course. She said that this was led by a “pragmatic” culture by the Finnish public.
This white paper focused on economic impacts and how military partnerships were benefiting from the existing policy and how that would change were they to join Nato.
“The whole of society was in this process – with the history we have, people still remember the previous wars, for Finland it was not a difficult decision in the end.
“Even with the membership of the Nato membership our foreign policy ideals remain – the EU is still our priority for security context,” she added.
Magnus Christiansson, Senior Lecturer at the Swedish Defence University also spoke of the Swedish outlook on their decision to move closer to Nato.
“It is important to be a good ally – and if Sweden is called on to be an ally in a war that is a new thing for us.
“A lack of debate would come back and haunt us, it is critical to have a debate to understand what Nato is and what Nato is not,” he said.
Tomorrow’s event at Dublin Castle will look at topics including disinformation and hybrid threats, it will examine the history of neutrality, the future for Irish neutrality and Defence Forces capability development.
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What has stopped Murphy from clarifying his comments? It’s disgraceful. Fair play to Breege Quinn. You don’t ignore an Irish mother defending her child.
@Ronan Mc Namara: Don’t believe everything you read in the papers., You can’t call someone a “Mass Murderer” just because a hack in the Indo says he is..
What a brave, strong woman she is, compared to the gang of cowards who broke almost every bone in her sons body and then intimidated the locals into silence.
@Justice Mickey: I turned 60 yesterday. YFG? Ha ha!
All I did was pay tribute to a brave woman, if that offends you as an SF supporter, you’re the one with the problem.
The media is doing its best to attack Sinn Fein is getting very boring now ,I feel sorry for these people no one should have to go through this .
Sinn Fein has nothing to do with these crimes as they were committed by criminals.
@Punters Pal: Sinn Féin supporters claimed that Breege Quinn was being used and that all of this furore would die down after the election. Well it hasn’t. Because you still have a mother looking for justice for her son 13 years later.
@Punters Pal: “Sinn Fein has nothing to do with these crimes as they were committed by criminals” Righhht .Didn’t stop them supporting and visiting the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe though did it.
@M: Varadka and Martin very quiet about this young man’s murder since the election. They couldn’t say enough about it in the run up to the election. Deepest sympathies to Paul’s family,
@Donal Desmond: I think it was RTE reporters that raised it during the election and when Mary Lou directly contradicted herself in 2 different interviews, it got even more attention. This is all of SFs own making, all they had to do was tell Murphy to apologise properly to the lads mother, which for some reason they refused to do and Murphy still refuses to withdraw his remark.
Can’t believe we’ve voted in SF in such large numbers, just because of a bunch of Brexit /Trump style nonsense promises.
This is the real SF.
It’s time to start bringing to light what they’re like.
@Rollander: It’s instances like this over the years that have formed my opinion of Sinn Féin. Murphy only needs to say Paul Quinn was not a criminal but won’t. I genuinely can’t understand why. It’s baffling.
@Sim0n: In an effort to understand what this is all about I quickly researched the background to this issue, I assume Mr. Murphy cannot for the same reason An Garda Síochána cannot, and perhaps the same reason the PSNI will not. Perhaps it is because of the position of the Irish Government at the time (but through political barging changed their position – although I wonder about this – as I did not find any official retraction by the then Irish Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern) is the same as that of the Stormont Finance Minister Murphy?? Could that be? But i do sincerely hope that the parents to that young man Paul Quinn who was murdered find justice and peace. All parents love their children
Disgusting comment meant to deflect from connections between the perpetrators and Sinn Fein supporters. However the sensationalist headline of “13 years of hell” and the fact that this family are only getting attention because of the election is also disgusting. Nobody, Sinn Fein or otherwise, cared about you for 13 years.
@Dan: the “13 years of hell” in the headline is just paraphrasing what his mother said herself. If she claims to have been through 13 years of hell is it really sensationalist to headline the story with that claim?
@Dan: That’s not true at all. The press has been reporting on this horrific incident for years. What made it different this time is that Sinn Féin finally responded to her pleas to clear her sons name. She has thanked the media for helping her over the years. The headline isn’t sensationalist because you don’t get to decide what a mother experienced for 13 years.
@Sim0n: If you weren’t endlessly trolling every story with “SF hyperpopulism” people might actually listen to the odd good point you may have. But hey, got to get them stranger-likes.
It what was wrong and hurtful from certain commenters on this site to suggest two grieving parents were only speaking to the media as a political stunt before an election when this story featured two weeks ago. I wonder what they have to say about it now?
@Rochelle: I expect the SF press core will come up with a new/line pivot for their supporters soon enough.
When/if there’s another election to build up to.
David Cullinane said last week to Matt Cooper and Ivan Yates, after his drunken rant in Waterford, that the IRA had been gone for a cpl of decades and yet Conor Murphy said he met IRA after the Quinn murder to clarify whether or not they were involved. Something doesn’t add up there.
But didn’t the fauna fail minister and gardi and psni say very same and Notting about them saying it or no one asking them for an apology
Mmm very suspicious why SF been singled out
@James Dooley: You mean Bertie Ahern who apologised and clarified his statement on the Dáil record 3 weeks after he made those comments? He hasn’t been cornered 13 years later without a discernible reason for not clarifying his comments.
@James Dooley: the ignorance of some SF supporters posting on here is staggering, it really is. It’s been stated dozens of times that Bertie withdrew his remark, on the record, in the Dáil. Why is it suspicious that SF have been singled out, when they are the only ones who wouldn’t engage with the boys mother and wouldn’t withdraw the allegations for thirteen years?
There is definitely another election comming so ,not one dam do ffg Rte independent newspapers care for Breege quinn only to use her to make political gains , you wount see them talking to Aidan mcinespies family who was shot in the back by british army walking to a Gaa match
@Tom o brien: the McAnespie family were on an RTE show not so long ago, it could have been Miriam O Callaghans radio show. There is a trial this month of the soldier accused of shooting him. How do I know? Because it’s on the RTE website.
At any rate his murderer or the British army are not seeking to get into government here, are they?
The Boyle family in Donegal have been put through torture for years but its FF that has the answers about this child’s murder, where is the outcry from the media
@JusticeForJoe: That’s not what’s happening at all.
The country is being run by a caretaker gov. You know, because of our constitution.
Next, SF can’t form a government because they don’t have the seats, again because of our parliamentary rules and constitution.
Finally the Quinn family’s trauma is totally irrelevant to all of this, besides the fact that SF’s murky relationship to it turns off voters.
@JusticeForJoe: Ah come on Joe, that’s like saying the cervical check victims trauma is only relevant to themselves. If/when SF get into government they will have to deal with scandals of the past and present and they seem either ill equipped or inexperienced enough to do that. Enda Fanning of the SF Ard Chomhairle Twitter attack on Joe Duffy and Liveline last week was atypical of this and akin to seeking a ministry of truth. They are going to have to get used to being made answerable.
@Paddy J: The cervical scandal affected a lot more than one family. They are not the same thing at all. This is shamelessly false virtue signalling and it only ever happens at election time.
No more than every gossip-mongering celebrity-chaser putting ‘Be Kind’ on their Facebook profiles now that they’ve hounded one to her death. This is the same false crap and so many just lap it up.
I have no time for it.
@JusticeForJoe: But Joe the number of families has nothing to do with it, whether it be 1 family or 100. The Quinn family’s trauma is as relevant as any other family’s trauma. Even SF won’t deny they put Breege Quinn and her family through 13 years of hell.
Suit the journal.ie to get out on the streets and visit our hospitals and interview the banks as to why they don’t pay tax investigation in to how and why fg/ff got voted for the real issue of the day why are we not seeing simon harris 17 women has died on his watch and fg don’t care why aren’t you reporting this journal.ie???
Whoever did this despicable horror to this poor young man should be brought to justice, that goes without saying. It is odd though that Bertie Ahern said at the time:
Ahern had previously told the Dáil that the murder of Paul Quinn had been linked to “feuds about criminality”.
He then seemed to backtrack
A lot doesn’t add up about this case, and his family have every right to get to the truth of it.
However, I believe it’s cynical of the media and FG and FF to use it as a weapon consistently in order to smear Sinn Fein. This is seriously unethical and does a disservice to the case itself, and to the family.
Fiann Fail and Fine Gael have a dark history too, some of it very recent, the bank bail out of 2009 more or less sold Ireland and the future of its citizens to international bankers, and the IMF, a whole population of 5 million sold on the international markets because of corruption. Many suicides can be attributed to the rule of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael. The social impact of their political dominance on Irish society has been catastrophic and immeasurable. Let’s never forget that either.
@Ronan Mc Namara: I don’t have a clue who does that as I am not a criminal. All I see are assertions about Sinn Fein, no proof- just mudslinging, and guilt-by historical associations-smears. There is a clear agenda to keep a Left Wing party out of power, and I doubt very much if FG or FF (or the elites that they represent) give a damn about the IRA, or Sinn Fein’s history, or this tragic case. They just don’t wanr left-wing ideals to take hold as that threatens their profits before people paradigm. I doubt if Leo Varadkar or Micheal Martin, or any FG or FF politicians give a damn about the ordinary people of Ireland or their concerns, Sinn Fein have said that they do, and people believe them, that’s why they voted for them, and also because they are sick to death of being treated like roadkill by the establishment parties of FG and FF. The ordinary person in Ireland means zilch to the FG and FF duopoly, they are parties of the 1%, the rich, the middle and upper classes (although the Greens and Soc Dems will hopefully eventually steal many votes away from middle class FG and FF voters eventually). FG and FF have had 100 years in power, they’ve left a very negative, and stressful society to live in where people are pushed to the pin of their collar, some pushed to the edge over suicide. This is a bad society, it needs to CHANGE.
@Gombeen Island: Lol you don’t have a clue about fuel smuggling operations in South Armagh! Jesus wept! The dogs on the street know. I am sure Sinn Fein do give a damn about the IRA.
@Ronan Mc Namara: Why would I know about that? seems you know about it, so go and report it..
Of course Sinn Fein give a damn, I said FG and FF don’t. Everything FF and FG do is about power, that’s all, power- and holing on to it… that’s all they care about, everything else is merely point scoring to them…
The journal.ie doing fg/ff dirty work why even bring this back can you not see what’s ahead fg/ff going to pull this country under and your not reporting it.
@great gael of Eire: This story should have been resolved 13 years ago. Murphy can clarify his comments publicly and its done. Leave the rest to the police.
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