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TAOISEACH MICHEÁL MARTIN on Monday night confirmed the entire country will move to Level 5 of Covid-19 restrictions for six weeks from Thursday onwards in a bid to tackle a spike in cases.
Martin said it is “the core responsibility” of the government “to protect lives and to protect public health, while also protecting livelihoods and supporting the wider economy and society”.
He then stated that Ireland strategy’s will involve working to “suppress the virus when it is growing” and reopening “as much of our society and economy as possible when it is safe to do so”.
“Until we have a safe vaccine, we must continue in that pattern. This is the reality in the rest of the world and it is unfortunately the reality here,” Martin said.
Although not named as such by government, some people have been critical of this so-called ‘seesaw’ approach that has been signposted as Ireland’s path through the pandemic.
Speaking about coming out of lockdowns back in May, the World Health Organization (WHO) said easing restrictions and reopening an economy too quickly could lead to a “vicious cycle” of economic and health disasters.
Dr Mike Ryan, Executive Director of the WHO’s emergencies programme, said countries that reopen their economies and societies need to have an adequate testing and tracing system in place first.
“If you reopen in the presence of a high degree of virus transmission, then that transmission may accelerate,” Ryan said in May.
He added that “the worst thing that could happen” to an economy is if a country reopens and then has to shut down again to respond to a resurgence of Covid-19.
The HSE has increased its weekly testing capacity from 100,000 to 120,000, the Department of Health said this week.
Taoiseach addresses this, says he is "being candid" about the situation and there will be:
— Rónán Duffy (@ronanduffy_) October 20, 2020
"Periods of higher level restrictions, followed by lower level restrictions and, if necessary, followed by higher level restrictions again." pic.twitter.com/9lLHWZYW8l
The WHO has consistently said that lockdowns may be needed – but not as the primary means of controlling Covid-19, and only when the spread of the disease is out of control.
Up until that point other methods of controlling the disease – such as hygiene and social distancing – are more effective and beneficial from both an epidemiological and economic standpoint.
‘This won’t end in 2021′
Dr Kim Roberts, a virologist in Trinity College Dublin, said Ireland needs to “make the most of this lockdown”.
She has called on the government to carry out a feasibility study into what is needed so Ireland can develop an evidence-based, sustainable plan for the next 12 to 18 months.
We need to make the most of this lockdown. We need a solid, evidence-based, sustainable plan for the next 12-18 months, built on a credible feasibility study.
— Kim Roberts (@MoyneFlu) October 20, 2020
I'm not convinced cycles of lockdown are sustainable. I also haven't read a solid zero covid strategy either. 1/6
Roberts said we “can’t wait blindly for a vaccine”, adding that while the first licensed vaccines may arrive by the end of the year, global distribution will likely be “problematic”.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, Roberts said the pandemic “is not going to end at Christmas, it’s not going to end in the next six weeks, it’s not going to end when the vaccine is licensed, because it’s going to take such a long time for a vaccine to be distributed”.
“Who’s going to get the vaccine first and how many doses are going to be distributed to different countries? Is it going to be the richest countries that get the vaccine first or is it going to be evenly distributed around the world?,” she asked.
“What more can we do [in Ireland]? What work can we put in over the next few months so that we can keep community transmission levels as low as possible for as long as possible?”
Roberts said we can learn from our own experience, and that of other countries, over the last seven months, but that a feasibility study would highlight “certain pieces of the puzzle that we’re not putting in place”.
Unless we can see the data, unless somebody critically analyses the situation, we’re kind of just bumbling around blind.
Some of these “missing pieces”, she added, could involve giving public health doctors consultant status rather than specialist status as this would give “the people who can keep track of where the virus is, where transmission is, up to date with what the risks are” a “louder voice at the table” when decisions are being made.
She said the introduction of mandatory quarantining for people who arrive in Ireland, similar to the measures implemented in Australia and New Zealand, should also be considered.
“We can’t just keep ticking along week by week hoping that it’s going to go away, and waiting for 2020 to end. When 2020 ends, 2021 is going to start and it’s just going to be as bad.”
Roberts said she does not want to be overly pessimistic but people must be realistic about how long Covid-19 will affect the world.
She added that she’s “not convinced cycles of lockdown are sustainable”, but also hasn’t read “a solid Zero Covid strategy”. She said if Ireland was to consider this type of approach, an all-island strategy would be needed.
‘Zero Covid’
At the start of his address to the nation, the Taoiseach said he wanted “to be straight with people, lay out all the facts as I have them, and explain the rationale for the decisions that your government is making”.
Martin discussed the country’s strategy and why he believed certain approaches would, or wouldn’t, work for Ireland.
He told the public: “You will have heard many potential approaches mentioned and it’s important to be clear on what is, and what is not possible.
“There are some who argue that the country should be taking a ‘Zero Covid’ approach.
“That we should lock down the country and seal the borders until the virus has been eliminated and then maintain the infection rate at zero.
“The people who take this position are well motivated and serious people.
“However, given our geographic location and proximity to Britain and mainland Europe, and with two jurisdictions on our island, the advice of NPHET is, and our view as a Government is that this is simply not a realistic option.”
A Zero Covid approach – where a country aims to eliminate domestic transmission of the virus – has perhaps most famously been adopted by New Zealand.
The notion that the model was unrealistic was repeated by Chief Medical Officer Tony Holohan last night. A government source yesterday was also impatient with talk of the southern hemisphere country. They said the New Zealand approach needs to be “knocked on the head once and for all”.
They said that the Taoiseach made it clear that the zero Covid approach will not be pursued here, and neither will herd immunity. They said the continuous discussion about such strategies by some experts serves no one, as due to the border issue, it was never going to be runner.
Although they admit Zero-Covid is almost impossible to achieve, experts believe it still should be the goal for many countries.
An international report, published in The Lancet journal in September, analysed the strategies for easing Covid-19 restrictions that were implemented in nine high-income countries after the first wave of infections, including New Zealand.
The report’s authors state there is “a strong argument for adopting a so-called zero-Covid strategy, like in New Zealand, which aims to eliminate domestic transmission, particularly considering emerging evidence on the effects of long Covid (which occurs in people who have survived Covid-19 but continue to have symptoms for longer than expected)”.
Co-author Martin McKee, professor of European public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said governments should be ambitious and consider adopting a Zero Covid strategy, in the knowledge that this likely cannot be achieved.
In an interview with TheJournal.ie last month, McKee said: “You have to recognise that with the best will in the world, you’ll never eliminate it completely, but [New Zealand has] done incredibly well, they’ve had very few deaths, they were able to open up most of the economy.”
McKee noted that while there had since been been another lockdown in and around Auckland, the numbers are “nothing like what you’re seeing in other parts of the world”.
He said governments should “not be judged for failing to get to zero Covid”, but should still make that their aim.
McKee said countries need to get the number of cases as low as possible before they start opening up their economies.
“You need to get it down, and then you need to ease the restrictions with great care, with really good data, really good surveyance, really good testing and tracing.”
In New Zealand there is a four-level alert system; a so-called ‘social bubble’ approach allows a gradual expansion of small social groups; testing and tracing capacity has been increased; efforts were made to increase number of ICU beds; the border is closed to most visitors, and all arrivals are tested and quarantined for 14 days.
People are advised to maintain a physical distance of two metres in public spaces and one metre is recommended in schools and workplaces at high alert levels, but there are no distancing requirements at alert level one.
A government source told us the New Zealand approach needs to be “knocked on the head once and for all”.
They said the continuous discussion about strategies such as the New Zealand approach by some experts serves no one as, due to the border issue, it was never going to be runner here.
Herd immunity
The Taoiseach also discussed the herd immunity approach in his speech on Monday night.
Martin noted some people have suggested the government “should let the virus run its course and that the economy is too important for any more restrictions”.
“This implies that we should accept higher levels of illness and death, and it ignores the deadly long term effects of the virus on many people. The government will not be taking this approach,” he stated.
US President Donald Trump is among those to call for a herd immunity approach. However experts are pushing back on this, saying this strategy is not supported by scientific evidence.
Eighty doctors and public health experts called the herd immunity approach a “dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence” in a letter published in The Lancet last week.
Since the letter was published last Wednesday, more than 2,000 others have signed.
The letter states: “In the initial phase of the pandemic, many countries instituted lockdowns (general population restrictions, including orders to stay at home and work from home) to slow the rapid spread of the virus. This was essential to reduce mortality, prevent health-care services from being overwhelmed, and buy time to set up pandemic response systems to suppress transmission following lockdown.”
The letter notes that although lockdowns have been disruptive, substantially affecting mental and physical health, and harming the economy, “these effects have often been worse in countries that were not able to use the time during and after lockdown to establish effective pandemic control systems”.
“In the absence of adequate provisions to manage the pandemic and its societal impacts, these countries have faced continuing restrictions.”
The letter states that this fact has “understandably led to widespread demoralisation and diminishing trust”.
It adds that the arrival of a second wave and “the realisation of the challenges ahead has led to renewed interest in a so-called herd immunity approach, which suggests allowing a large uncontrolled outbreak in the low-risk population while protecting the vulnerable”.
“Proponents suggest this would lead to the development of infection-acquired population immunity in the low-risk population, which will eventually protect the vulnerable
This is a dangerous fallacy unsupported by scientific evidence.
“Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed. Uncontrolled transmission in younger people risks significant morbidity and mortality across the whole population.
“In addition to the human cost, this would impact the workforce as a whole and overwhelm the ability of health-care systems to provide acute and routine care.
“Furthermore, there is no evidence for lasting protective immunity to SARS-CoV-2 [Covid-19] following natural infection, and the endemic transmission that would be the consequence of waning immunity would present a risk to vulnerable populations for the indefinite future.
“Such a strategy would not end the COVID-19 pandemic but result in recurrent epidemics, as was the case with numerous infectious diseases before the advent of vaccination.”
‘Why are we having this debate?’
Announcing the move to Level 5 on Monday night, the Taoiseach said, in the effort to suppress the virus, Ireland has “already introduced what is probably Europe’s strictest regime”.
“As a result of this, we can see some evidence that these restrictions have been effective in slowing the growth and spread of the virus.
“However, as the daily figures show, these restrictions, on their own, have not been enough to significantly reduce the levels of infection.
“So, while we have slowed the spread of the virus, this has not been enough and further action is now required. NPHET has been clear on what it believes is needed.”
A ‘seesaw approach’ of lockdowns is not something the government wanted to do, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe told TheJournal.ie yesterday.
“We’re trying to get the R number below a certain level so that it stabilises at a far lower level,” he said.
“This isn’t something that we want to. This is something that we have to do in order to have a better chance of beating this disease in the next number of weeks. The objective of the government is to try to get the so-called R number, the transmission of this disease below a certain level, so that it stabilises at a far lower level.
“And we are only embracing this approach – which we know is having such an effect in our economy – because in the absence of doing something like this, it is our fear that the impact that this disease will have on the lives of our citizens will even be greater, and even more tragic, and none of us want that to happen, which is why we’re taking these measures,” Donohoe said.
While the minister acknowledged the impact of the seesaw approach on society and the economy, the Taoiseach said he was “being candid” about the situation.
There will be “periods of higher level restrictions, followed by lower level restrictions and, if necessary, followed by higher level restrictions again”.
When asked about possible further lockdowns in 2021, Public Expenditure Minister Michael McGrath said the assumption for next year is “we will have to live with Covid-19 through next year, but it is not based on the worst case scenario of a severe lockdown right through the year”.
“That’s not the baseline assumption, the baseline assumption is that the virus will be there, that there will be some restrictions, that it is about containment, and it is about living with this in the best way that we can throughout the next year. That’s the underlying assumption within the Budget,” he said.
A sensitivity analysis in the Budget day documents does look at the scenario of a severe lockdown situation, and its implications, McGrath said.
“We’re very conscious of what the impact of that would be. We can see it here over a six-week period. So the numbers are there for all to see as to what the impact is over a short period, and clearly we are not countenancing a situation where that level of deep restriction, and the associated economic impact, has to be carried right from next year. That’s not the baseline assumption.”
What happens if Level 5 does not have the desired effect on the numbers? Donohoe would not entertain questions from TheJournal.ie about a Plan B. Neither would Chief Medical Officer Tony Holohan at last night’s Department of Health briefing.
“All of our focus is on making this work,” Donohoe said.
“We’re already seeing what is the effect of Level 5 on the social and economic fabric of our country. It is so great. All of our focus is going to be on making this work. And I’m confident that with the cooperation of the Irish people and the different measures that we’re putting in place that all that can be done can be done to make it work will be done.”
However, government sources have stated that if the seesaw effect of this lockdown does not work to get the numbers down by Christmas, a mitigation strategy would have to be pursued, with a focus on protecting the most vulnerable and treating the sick.
A further 1,031 cases of Covid-19 were confirmed in Ireland by the Department of Health yesterday evening.
A total of 50,993 cases of the virus have been confirmed here since the first case at the end of February. The death toll from Covid-19 in Ireland is 1,852.
The 14-day incidence rate in Ireland has risen to 261.7 per 100,000 people, with the highest incidence rate in Cavan – 824.4 per 100,000 people.
Roberts said one of the “frustrating things” about Martin’s speech on Monday night is that there “seems to be a disconnect between what the government is planning on what people want”.
“So there’s a lot of anger about the idea that we’re going into a lockdown, but that is what the Living with Covid Strategy is.
“The government were reluctant for us to go to ‘Level 5 minus’ or whatever it is. But that’s the strategy and if that’s the strategy then why are we having this debate?
“And if we need to have this debate because it’s going to be so economically disruptive, then it’s not a good strategy, and we need to look for other options instead,” Roberts told us.
With reporting by Christina Finn
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Scary, stressful & worrying approach if your not a TD, NPHET or a civil servant. The virus isn’t going anywhere, I’d imagine people will flee & seek employment in other EU countries with less restrictive approaches in 2021, Restrictions yes, lockdowns no
@David Lee: this is not a lockdown ffs despite window dressing. Yes high street shops are closed. But a majority of people still working. All construction and manufacturing still going and travelling all over the country .That’s about 700k people alone. GAA playing. You can play golf ffs. Garden centres are open along with hardware. Most places staying open bar a few. Italy did a better job. By December we will still have 400 cases a day. This will not work at all.
@Macca Attack: I’m sorry but telling people to stay in their homes as if the sky is falling down around us is a lockdown
@David Lee: I would not be surprised to see a flood of emigration in the new year. Especially if the only option here is to live in cycles of lockdown while a lot of other countries have less or no restrictions. There will be more money to be made abroad.
@Ciarán Oglesby: As you know from other conversation, I have already done it, work permit was sorted this evening too, so all legal and proper here now too, no handouts to non-working foreigners here as non EU. Was finally out of quarantine this evening and also could officially finalise my house purchase here then afterwards.. So now 3 mates on the way in next few weeks, as soon as they can wrap up everything get outa dodge, better to be ahead of curve, and get settled before Christmas like. Whatever about the cities the rural areas will be hard hit as after the last crash, lots of local businesses will never survive, my Brother is going to shut down his garage, he saw that in his future anyway with the Greens in power, so no point in struggling to pay wages and rates etc for a business on the rope with no future, but he is going to go to UK not here, he has work lined up. Im actually thinking of just leaving my house in Ireland to the bank, its in negative equity still anyway, and the mortgage money I paid to date far less than what I would have been paying in rent In Dublin or Cork so win win really :-)
@Macca Attack: and schools still open
@Macca Attack: What’s wrong with golf? No one has caught covid while playing. Its merely a socially distanced long walk in a big field that is open to everyone who likes the company of other human beings and not afraid of self inflicted mental torture.
@Michael Flynn: Self inflicted mental torture… I can’t figure out if you talking about lockdowns or golf? ha!
@Michael Flynn: totally agree
@Macca Attack: yessir is a lockdown for the rest who didn’t choose to be out of work
@Da_Dell: All the best in the new country. I mean it from the bottom of my hard as I know from own experience that migrating is a ton of stress.
I’m actually jealous. I have just bought a house in Ireland and would now have issues to migrate with having probably financing two houses.
@Macca Attack: BS… All essential services like mine Security are only allowed to do “essential repairs” and nothing in private homes. Everything else fell off a cliff last time and I expect the same this time… Got grilled regularly on the road where i was going and why… My ability to earn was and will be seriously curtailed…
@Macca Attack: Totally agree. You’d think someone in the Irish government would pick up the phone to Australia or NZ and ask for some advice
@Ciarán Oglesby: I don’t know where all these restriction free countries are, not in Europe anyway, we’ve all heard about New Zealand but getting in there might be a problem.
@Joe Farrelly: However, he has a point. The Irish economy especially these days is depending on multinationals. They picked Ireland next to other reasons also due to the ability to get here workers with many backgrounds and different language skills.
Ireland is in competition with other countries to attract this workforce.
If you are German would you move from a country which is using a regional approach and allowing most of it to be open to Ireland?
We don’t offer live music since March beside some buskers on the streets. They wouldn’t be allowed to see their families anymore due to different policies of school and can expect to go from one phase of lockdown to the next one.
At the moment those multinationals can all offer work from home which is keeping money in the country but if those would shake, we would have a severe issue during this pandemic.
@Vanessa: The Multinationals are important agreed, but lots of people with Irish companies can work from home too. I just find it hard to believe that other countries with high levels of unemployment too will be the answer to Irish peoples problems.
@Joe Farrelly: Before the lockdown those multinationals had 25 percent of the workforce of the country. Roughly 50 percent of the workforce were Irish. The rest were foreigners which needed to be attracted to live in Ireland.
You want these Irish people employed and you want these foreign workers in the country to spend their salaries over here.
This is why it was always important that Ireland was attractive to potential workforce.
The Irish companies which are working from home could in theory also move if they would need foreign workforce. However, at least the US companies don’t buy buildings or so and more in favour of leasing grounds. They could in theory move very fast.
I hope you see the importance of being attractive for the labour market.
@Vanessa: Jobs can move from Ireland to Europe, as they can move from Europe to Ireland if it’s about working from home who knows what the future holds. If we go away from the journal comment pages we will find lots of people who are happy living and working in Ireland.
@Joe Farrelly: Of course they can move one way or the other. However, if you are someone who would pick now a country to live in for the next couple of years would you pick one which has pledged to go from lockdown to the next or a country which is using regional approaches and being able to offer more freedom.
Ireland is under normal conditions a lovely space to live with wonderful people but if you aren’t allowed to experience that you have an issue to advertise that.
I would doubt that you will find many people who are happy with not being allowed to meet other people or to do something but you may have found many who would just say “has to be done”.
It’s the forecast for 2021 which makes Ireland less attractive for investors.
@Vanessa: Vanessa when I look at the news everywhere I hear about seems to be having problems, as to what attracts investors we we’re always being told it because of our well educated English speaking workforce, and our tax rate, surely these things still matter.
@Vanessa: Looks like we both have plenty of time on our hands tonight.
How dare you, me hole Martin you have thrown your people to the hounds of banks not a mention of protection for your people, I understand the word pandemic but it’s a drop in the ocean of the tusnami of health issues to come 50k people waiting on precedures Inc 5k children cancer diagnosis decreased by 50% diagnosed to follow 250k jobs lost today, health is going too the gym the pool meeting your friends hugging your mam going for a coffee a walk seeing a smile without a mask having a lovely hair do to feel good a lovely sauna steam run I feel so healthy after. 30k people die in Ireland each year from cardiac cancer ect not to mention suicide with the greatest of respect too lost one’s including myself aprox 497000 million people have not been affected mm love too all xx
@John Leonard: Guaranteed if the Guards and the rest of the Civil Service were knocked back to €350 a week during a lockdown there would be no lockdowns.. We’re in this together, should be rephrased as “I’m alright Jack”
@David Garland: it’s very easy to call for a lockdown when the worst thing you have to suffer is not being able to eat at your favourite restaurant or forego that holiday to Santorini. It’s a bit more difficult to call for a lockdown when you realise that you will have to struggle to buy food, pay bills, and keep a roof over your head. “We’re in this together” is the biggest lie spun from PR departments during this crisis. We’re not, never were and never will be in this together.
@John Leonard: OK if you were in charge, what exactly would you do? A lot of armchair politicians here.
… Because Ireland has incompetent leaders and slanted mass media, who blamed everyone and everything from the get go for this fiasco: holiday home owners, unruly teenagers, beach goers, and now… house parties! Lots and lots of house parties and gatherings in private homes, presumably thousands of times more frequent than during the summer, to account for the explosion of cases happening since September.
@Stan Papusa: ‘blamed’ they still blaming them .. journalism is dead in this country , esp when you the ones defending #LeoTheLeak over the weekend were where authors of the ‘Leo’ book, and I ain’t mentioning the full title as I don’t want to spew me guts all over the floor. You have the Coopers, Colemans, Keenys etc for years now it seems ,spending many hours on the radio every week criticising and deriding UK Politicians and Brexit, the US and Trump etc, while giving the parties that have been in power here since the foundation of the sate a free ride, most especially since the FG /labour Gov came in after the crash, even then these same would attack labour while FG were almost put on a pedestal. They is just too much cross contamination between Ireland’s Politicians and the Media, they are literary in bed with one another, married to one another. And then they wonder why traditional news media are dying ..
I want them to give me facts not biased opinion based on their own belief or political allegiances or whatever . I have no issues with alternative view points and opinions, I welcome it and think its necessary in society and should always be at least listen too objectively, or at the very very least let me hear the biased opinion from those who are clearly not pretending to be non-biased.
@Da_Dell: Agreed. Traditional journalism is dying. So is investigative journalism.
Gotta love the title ‘Ireland is choosing a seesaw approach’, implying this fiasco is all part of a grand plan. Well, anyone who “plans” for 2 lockdowns less than 6 months apart is incompetent or a sociopath or both.
I also don’t mind alternative views as long as they are based on facts and not undermined by hidden agendas, lobbying, interests.
We have a See Saw approach to everything else in the Country so why should Covid be any different. Every year we have hundreds on hospital trolleys and every year without fail we have visiting bans on Hospitals because of the seasonal flu.. Did anyone think Covid 19 was going to be any different? Unless one of these vaccines proves to be a success we’re in for more of the same next year
@David Garland: I am also worried that somehow our government will not be first in line to procure the vaccine when the first batches are released.
What is even more strange is the fact that Irish people are comfortable taking orders from an unelected government.
@backupanytime:
@backupanytime: An unelected Government, please tell me what you men by that.
The people have enough of this now, I think they will struggle to find people to adhere to the guidelines, people know we are not in this together now.
@Tom Bombdadil:
I agree. The fool me twice maxim will apply
It’s why the Gov is considering fines. They now know this lockdown will have to forced down people’s throats
@Tom Bombdadil: and it’s the ones that don’t adhere to the guidelines that will keep us going back and forth into lockdowns….. clown
@Just Some Guy: look after our own 1st
Because our government are totally in-ept.
Told ya all , it’s all propaganda. Its a hoax. It’s the banks that are telling the government what to do. It’s the big pharma that are telling the doctors what to do. Billions and billions are coming in from the 1%. Into the banks where half is spend on this COVID propaganda. In the end we people will be bailing out that half. Smart play.
@Dolphins: That makes no sense. Banks are going to be hurt badly as a result of the lockdowns
@Mickety Dee: There’s borrowed money. Irish banks get the money from the EU The EU gets the money from the world banks. The world bank gets the money from the 1%. Way goes round the circle and back. Correct the banks struggle and the Me-hole clowns borrow more money In the end the tax payers are the ones to bail them out. Big question is all of the borrowed money spent on the COVID dance !?
@Dolphins: And JFK did 9/11!!
Great little nation…..not….as WB Yeats said “ you’ve disgraced yourselves again”.
@Scipio Australianus: What’s does a Yeat’s quote during the plough and the stars opening have to do with a global pandemic?
See/Saw is an appalling vista. Shops won’t restock , business won’t reopen if the risk is another shutdown 6-8 weeks later. See/Saw is an inherent admission that any strategic plan has completely failed and we’re in “ wack a mole “ mode. What’s the point of all these experts and NPHET is “ just close everything “
It makes no sense and no other Eu country is trying this nonsense. Of course Ireland , with its long history of superior thinking , proven analytical capability knows better then everyone else.
If they keep recalibrating the PCR testing every couple of months then we will be in and out of lockdown for eternity.
We need to seriously consider zero COVID at this point. A feasibility study and serious negotiations with the northern executive needs to start looking at the costs and Benefits. It seems to me in the long run it would cost less and we could truly get back to ordinary life otherwise we are playing whack a mo over the next couple of years which will kill the economy more as we will be stuck at level 3 most of the time which means most business stay shut
@Nell foran: We give spent the last 40+ years integrating our lives, society and economy with the rest of the EU.
We cannot cut ourselves of from them indefinitely and have anything like normal life.
It’s an absurd strategy that indices
@Nell foran: You cannot under any circumstances have a zero Covid policy. We are an Island nation on the edge of Europe and to cut ourselves off until a vaccine is found is ludicrous. Even under level 3 restrictions our Capital City was the quietest in Europe. We need to live with the Virus especially considering we are now down to a mortality rate of 1% or under.. Other European Countries are living with these Virus and that’s what we need to do. Zero Covid Policy is anti science
@David Garland: agree can’t happen but if we get numbers low some sort of rapid airport testing is needed.
@David Garland: Ask Taiwan and Vietnam how their zero covid policy is turning out and maybe you will see why their economies are set to be intact by the end of this year. Taiwan is an island nation as well, so why are we somehow not good enough to implement their policies as well? Living with covid is defeatist and you know it.
@Paul Cunningham: We’re in the EU., What are we going to ban travel now between fellow EU nations for god knows how many years until a vaccine is found? In case you haven’t noticed Dublin is full of People from all over the World, we’re like a mini New York. What are we going to do anybody that wants to visit family take two weeks unpaid leave to quarantine. Anybody wanting to go on holiday should take four weeks off. Won’t be long before Ryanair pull out, Aer Lingus goes bust and hundreds of thousands of jobs go in the travel sector because you think we can get rid of a seasonal flu/virus.. You’re obviously another one who gets paid by the Government
@Paul Cunningham: because, we are not an island nation. We are a nation that shares an island with another sovereign state. Unlike Vietnam, we have a legally-defined open border with part of that sovereign state. Vietnam doesn’t have that with any of its neighbours. It can close its borders without legal ramifications. We can’t. Taiwan has sovereignty over the entirety of its island. We don’t. Northern Ireland, no matter how much any of us wish, are not going to close themselves off from the rest of their parent state. Nor is Westminster going to bow to what Dublin wants. Zero-Covid in Ireland is a fantasy. To direct resources to such a goal is to deny resources where they are needed – contact tracing, business and employee supports, funding our clinics, hospitals, doctors, nurses, etc.
@David Garland: well ive just finished 10days of strict quarantine after emigrated to Zurich, bordered by many countries so yes it can and should be done. But then again Switzerland is not the EU and its fanatical policies of open borders wit absolutely no control to enable the mass movement of people to work in some of the less desirable jobs at almost exploited levels , while not having to provide normal protections like sick pay, no assurances of employment duration etc, to ensure maximum profits for the businesses hiring them, while the operate via loopholes and offshore shell companies.
@Nell foran: I am a herd immunity guy, but I would still support zero covid against this rediculous seesaw approach that is the hallmark of incompetent government led by sociopath doctors
@David Garland: Sweden style eugenics is anti-science. What Vietnam, South Korea, New Zealand, Taiwan and Singapore is doing is science.
@David Garland: Yes, no need for bans. Mandatory monitored quarantines and release upon testing negative twice. This is completely manageable and the only ethical, sustainable way forward.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: Everything involved in maintaining a zero covid strategy would be necessary to keep covid levels low anyway. Mandatory quarantines for incoming travelers along with aggressive contact tracing.
The Government are shambolic. Full stop.
@Looney Tunes:
We do look after our own.
Folks dont worry about this, days of indecision as we eagerly waited the daily announced forthcoming ‘Decisive Actions’ , that was then always to be ‘tomorrow’, our glorious infallible one, Ireland’s own Teflon Don aka #LeoTheLeak will soon be on media sources near you, reversing these “Not thought through thoroughly enough” rules as he as done before, about 2 weeks ago or so.
I wonder where we would be now, if we had a couple of weeks under our belt already ?
So what exactly does that protect the vulnerable and treat the sick plan B mentioned by government sources actually mean?
@Aaron: to clarify I’m referring to the mitigation tactic if level 5 does not work that is mentioned “ s, a mitigation strategy would have to be pursued, with a focus on protecting the most vulnerable and treating the sick.”
@Aaron: I’m assuming it’s still level 5 but with financial resources redirected from supporting economy over to health.
@Aaron: it means that people of my age and older will be confined to throwing balls for our dogs in our back gardens, having our groceries delivered and forbidden from seeing our families so the underfunded health service doesn’t get overwhelmed
@Rebekah Corbett: ha ha exactly, it’s beyond ridiculous now and nothing’s been done for decades, never mind since Covid arrived….where’s the extra ICU beds and extra staff????
@Aaron:
Plan b sounds like what they should be doing anyway, but it’s easier to lock up the people than tell the hse to do what is paid for.
@Rebekah Corbett: yeah thought that. Not a fan of that idea ons. Sickening really. Who would have thought decimating the health service would come back to bite us? Oh ya everyone
@Tony Humphreys: Instead we should just permanently lock up anyone over 65 or anyone with a health issue, right?
I would like to personally thank our deputy leader for the decision he made about 2 weeks ago,
I would also like to thank his team of advisors, his production team, his pr team, his photo-op & media-liason team , his focus-group team and of course again, the main man himself..
for that Oscar winning performance on the ClaireByrne show
And special thanks to supporting acts, RTE and ClaireByrne for facilitating the event as per the usual.
And if you have to ask, had to edit this many times , take out many words, and none were s w ear words or n a sty words, the name of our deputy leader had to be taken out .. all could not be put in one post .. etc ..
all hail to open journalism ..
We can’t do a Zero-Cocid strategy bevause of our special location in Europe.
However, we are happy not to allow children to use that location to visit their grandparents abroad. (Got a letter from school at the beginning of the year)
I’m not convinced that he is competent to lead this country
@Vanessa: he is not leading the country, Tony holohan is – who was never elected, and is only concerned with covering his own back at a cost of 1500000000 for the next six weeks.
@Tony Humphreys: if they jump in 2021 from one lockdown to another nobody is going to lead this country anyway.
@Vanessa: there wont be a country to lead. The EU will have to step in eventually and take control as we will just collapse into dipsair, poverty, joblessness
@Tony Humphreys: I hope they do
I would have preferred zero corona and so would most people. The countries that did that also fared best economically.
No chance of seeing family members who live in a different county over Christmas
@Anne Marie Devlin: Oh… I know how the first xmas without family felt. I wish you all the best and strength
If that’s the best strategy our “experts” have come up with I think it’s time to find new experts. Such lazy irish way of doing it, “sure we’ll keep doing what we are doing, be grand”
Thanks Leo
@Da_Dell: indeed I am referring to that article that doesn’t allow comments because of widespread disagreement with it.
Looking after genuine asylum seekers is one thing. But tolerating large numbers of illegal immigrants and plying them with free houses, university education, medical care and welfare is just inviting greater number’s to come here – and all at a time when many young Irish people struggle to provide for themselves.
Not sure, but it’s very up & down tbh.
This will be the reality for the rest of our miserable lives. There will be no vaccine. No herd immunity. This wil be it. Some people will get used to it, others won’t. It’s sad, but that’s it. We’re going the way of the dinosaurs.
Was the point of writing a comment you should have listened to your own common sense in the beginning of March.
The country wouldn’t have to ‘seesaw’ if people had the cop on to behave themselves properly when we come out of lockdowns.
The 2nd wave isn’t the government’s fault, it’s the fault of idiots serving drinks into people’s mouths in pubs, supporters going mad after GAA matches, house / communion / birthday parties, people doing a big shop before going to get tested in case they are positive and have to isolate, people who feel unwell adopting the ‘it couldn’t happen to me’ approcah and carrying on as normal, face mask / restriction deniers apeing the far right in the US etc etc.
@Stanley Marsh: No its not, most of what you are banging on about has being going on since last March the curtain twitchers like yourself have been biatching about since then and was no surges. Even the NI health people have debunked the GAA matches in NI stating they had no more influence than any other sports .. Its a combination of everything including schools.
@Da_Dell: No pubs, communions or matches of any kind from March to June / July so that kind of holes your POV below the waterline from the start.
And you’re right, GAA matches had no more influence that any other sport but if you read my contribution properly I refered to the behaviour of people AFTER matches.
All in all a poorly thought out response.
Zero Covid almost there when out of the community in the summer. allow travelers in after strict 14 day quarantine in designated hotel pay off the airlines keep everything else open and live as normal. They could still do this. It is difficult not impossible and the prize of a normal life especially for our senior citizens would be worth it.
have your say