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THE CREDIT REVIEWER has criticised the country’s two largest banks for not showing enough ‘enterprise risk-taking’ in lending to small businesses.
In his eighth quarterly report, John Trethowan said he was disappointed that there was not more evidence to show that AIB and Bank of Ireland were lending at a rate that could contribute to economic recovery.
Trethowan noted, however, that the two banks have a combined target for sanctioning €3.5 billion in loans in 2012, an increase of €1 billion on 2011 – and said the two banks were largely supportive of medium and low-risk
“I observe that the two pillar banks are largely being supportive of medium and low risk new lending proposals from well established SMEs and farms which already bank with them,” he said.
The Credit Review Office offers an independent review of decisions by the two ‘pillar’ banks to refuse credit applications to small businesses and farms, and says it has received 44 appeals in the last three months.
Of the cases completed in the last quarter, the office overturned 17 loan refusals, which resulted in the banks lending a further €2 million which the office says supported 140 jobs in the SME sector.
The office has received 197 appeals in its two years of existence, and of those which have been completed, 69 loan refusals have been overturned – releasing €6.9 million of credit – while 48 have been upheld in the banks’ favour.
This morning’s report also included a number of testimonials from businesses who had used the office’s service, including the operator of one gastropub in Dublin 2 which the owner says is thriving.
“The bank did not want to lend to pubs or restaurants. However we believed there was a gap in the market in Dublin 2 [...] We would not have got the business started without the help of the Credit Review Office,” its proprietor said.
AIB this morning said it understood the importance of lending in stimulating economic recovery, but added that demand for credit remained low “as a consequence of economic conditions”.
Its head of business banking, John Webb, said the bank wanted its customers “to approach our branches and Commercial Centres to discuss their requirements. This will allow us to help them make formal credit applications”.
So what alternatives are they presenting? If I knew they had alternatives and proposals I would be far more interested, peaceful protest is admirable but if it doesn’t have an end game???
The alternatives are being discussed with everyone. The answers are not simple, but making the situation worse by having the IMF here is certainly not the answer. We encourage open debate on alternatives. There will be talks given during the week on various topics http://occupieddublin.tumblr.com/
The idealistic end game is that the 99% would control the 1% rather than vis-versa
“Our demand is that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) stay out of our affairs. We do not want their influence or control.” – So they don’t want the IMF’s influence or control but they’re happy to take their money I presume? Without a bailout, we wouldn’t have enough money to pay our public servants or welfare recipients. Our public services would collapse. Once these guys keep the protests peaceful, then that’s cool but unless they come up with alternatives, I don’t see how they differ from the normal angry left wing trade union – socialist types that think money grows on trees.
Rubbish. Public servants and welfare recipients would have to take a 10% cut, as would the private sector. Things would be tough for a while but we wouldn’t have to borrow or pay back what we dont owe. The bank debt is not my debt!
You’re right it doesn’t grow on trees, but where does money come from?
Well the bank debt isn’t my debt either but unfortunately I don’t know what else I can do but keep working to feed the kids and pay the bills. I resent the crap we are knee deep in but unless someone actually has a workable alternative what can we do? As I said before I think the non-political peaceful aspect of the protest is admirable but I guess I am too hacked off with everything to see what it will achieve in reality. Part of me wants to be there with them and the other part is saying why?
@Oil Foster. 10% cut? It would be more like a 40% cut and that would be just the start, as the initial cuts would have a depressionary effect on the economy, so probably a further 10 to 20% cut would then be required over the next couple of years. So hands up those in the public sector and welfare receipients if you would like to take this hit for team Ireland?
Your estimation is quite off target.
We need to restore our own sovereign currency based on the trade this country achieves. We need to wothdraw from the euro, devalue, boost our exports and restore our own national wealth based on financial policies that suit this country.
At present we are a flea on the end of the tail of the european dog – we are irrelevant to thw greater body and only an irritation if we attempt to make our presence felt.
None of the above involves leaving the EU, rather letting counties in the EU evolve financial policies that can work for each individual country. Our financial needs are so different to Germany or France.
Well done to the people of Iceland for having the conviction to respect democracy. Unfortunately history shows that time and again Europe despises democracy.
Oli foster, you are just a troll. A unilateral default just meaning a 10% reduction in public sector pay and social welfare? That’s just rubbish, and you know it.
@Keith
If Iceland is your model then please tell us the average wages, public sector and private, in Iceland, and let’s see if the Irish public thinks that’s a good way forward.
@Keith. I agree with most of what you say except for one thing. I’m don’t believe leaving the Euro would be of benefit at this moment in time. Our devaluation in our new currency would mean that our debt which is already very high could double or even triple as suggested in other economic commentary. Therefore the best time to leave the Euro would be when we have paid back all the debt, but I would imagine by then we will all love the euro and the european project and not want to do so……Last part is pure speculation on my part!
Well if we didn’t give our massive gas supplies over to private companies to plunder, then maybe the Irish state would have a teensy bit of money to pay public service salaries without borrowing so much. Pity we couldn’t privatise our collective lack of imagination and socialise our natural resources. Ah well…
So your advocating wasting more money on the public service? Thats the spirit!
Most sensible comment here, Robert
Can’t disagree with them wanting to keep the IMF out of domestic affairs, however what are we going to do about the money we’ve already drawn down?
You see that is what I mean, what alternatives do they propose? I have no idea what else we can do at this stage…
I see the whole thing as symbolic and I don’t expect them to offer solutions. After all our current leaders don’t know what the fuck they are doing either!
Absolutely but then why support it if the end result is we are all still helplessly floundering about not knowing what to do.
If the IMF was told to leave, how do they propose we pay the public and civil service? Who do they propose should lift the debt and what does that even mean? Demand regarding oil and gas sounds more like one mans opinion. As for last demand, what is it they want? to vote on every issue, law, budget for the country? I admire the idea of just bringing people together and getting something started, but they could have articulated reasonable achieveable demands as a better starting point.
If only we had a natural gas field off the west coast of the country that was worth somewhere in the region of 500 BILLION euro.
Who gives a crap – someone’s doing something! There’s so much they can’t make their mind up.
they seem to mainly be the same dreadlocked crusty rentamob that turn up for any "bring down the system" knees-up, most likely funded by daddys trust fund.
Really? I for one am funded by my job and I have short hair. In fact when I was there on Monday out of fifty people only two or three had dreads. And I can’t see many dreadlocks in the above photo either!
Has everyone given up? Greece failed the IMF exam today and they’re getting the money. Irish people are stupid!
Oil that pees me off even more to hear they got that money. We don’t want to IMF is what the protests are saying but you are saying we should take the money anyway and make no effort like the Greeks?
Oil, you don’t have a clue! Just because they’re missing their IMF targets doesn’t mean they’re not suffering from austerity. They are, far worse than us!
So they’ve got the Irish academics behind them, sure there’ll be no stopping them now.
Some great ideas in there about how to spend money, loved the suggestion for Free Universal Health Care. Perhaps if they can persuade a few of those underworked, underperforming (see latest University league tables) over remunerated academics to stop stealing, a very lavish, living and accept a reasonable salary there might be some money to pay for Free Universal Healthcare and beer volcanos and stripper factories too.
The #occupyDameStreet resistance is a global movement, which is linked through the Internet (we stream to http://www.livestream.com/occupydamestreet when we can – it’s just come on now).
Off the top my head there is Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Spain, Portugal, Philadelphia, New York, Boston and more. This is big and will grow!
I’d also like to thank the people of Dublin, Ireland and beyond for being so generous to us.
All very exciting Gordon. I do find it interesting though that despite the escalating slaughter of Coptic Christians at the hands of the, ahem, majority Egyptian population you still seek to associate yourselves with the “Arab Spring” uprisings which are already proving to be the precursor of their (The Copts) demise.
For the sake of clarity Gordon I’m not linking you with them, you’re the one doing that! Would you care to clarify your position? Thanks.
Sorry, not sure what you’re on about as I haven’t been paying attention to the news lately.
However, I’m sure you realize that the Dame Street occupation is a fully peaceful movement and that Egypt, Tunisia and Syria are vastly different societies to ours.
The association is the chain of events that has led to the current situation. I’m not 100% sure of the order (and I don’t think it’s too important) but something like: Tunisia -> Egypt -> Syria -> Spain -> Greece -> New York -> Philadelphia -> Chicago -> Boston -> Dublin
Also – I don’t usually feed trolls.
Well if you’ve been missing the news here’s an opportunity to catch up:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-egypt-copts-20111011,0,5662652.story
So Gordon where do they fit in? Or the Christians of Syria who will, in all probability, be joining them on the extinction list as a result of the Arab Spring. Is that a “chain on events” you consider prudent to associate yourself and your movement with, really? Are you happy to run with that?
“I’d also like to thank the people of Dublin, Ireland and beyond for being so generous to us.” *
*but do take care not to sound even the slightest note of discord, because if you do I’m going to call you bad names even if I don’t have my loud megaphone to hand. Way to put your point across Gordon, name calling, bravo.
(Btw, just to let you know Gordon, apparently name calling is against the terms of service here)
Gordon, thanks that pretty much answers my question and doubtless much more elegantly than if you had actually made an honest attempt to address the thorny issue of whether it’s wise to associate yourselves with a movement which is inexorably on a path towards genocide.
It’s really difficult to be in sympathy with whose who have no sympathy or compassion for the truly oppressed and vulnerable, especially the “unapproved” and unhip oppressed and vulnerable. Next time you guys are rollerblading and eating pizza on Dame Street spare a thought for those face death and maiming for doing the same thing in their own country, or what’s supposed to be their own country.
Look.
Each person is there for their own reasons and I am only representing myself here.
I am not up on the ins and outs of Egypt’s politics, but when the uprising began it seemed to be universally welcomed. As I said at the beginning of this conversation with you, I was not aware of the murders you were talking about, and you are correct: It is not good to associate oneself with that. It’s actually very disheartening to learn that an uprising that started so peacefully on the protesters side should go along the route of violence when power is finally ceased. It is a perpetuation of tit-for-tat violence and is something I completely disagree with.
It is me that made the association with Egypt, like you said. I was inspired by watching the pictures of the crowds crossing the bridge in the face of tanks & death. They were shot at & driven over by police, but kept going. The killings that took place have no doubt created an us and them attitude there, infused with bitterness and hatred.
How you draw the conclusion that I do not have compassion for the oppressed and those who are truly suffering, I really do not know.
The attitude of this conversation from the beginning, has been oppositional. If you were on site expressing your opinion, and if I thought you were just trying to rile me up, I would not call you names, I would simply walk away from you…. at least I hope would, because sometimes it’s difficult to not get drawn into senseless discussions like this one.
I guess by having bothered answering your first question, I failed the test.
Well Gordon it’s a pity you think it’s a senseless conversation because as a consequence of having this conversation, and by your own admission, the blanket linkage of what you’re doing with the Arab Spring mightn’t be a flattering as it appeared at first blush.
I also know that some of the imagery from Egypt was inspiring, I accept that. But it’s important to go beyond imagery. The imagery from the early days of the Iranian Revolution of 79 were quite inspiring too but look how that turned out. Many of those responsible for starting that revolution off ended up getting their necks stretched on a short drop gallows and a whole nation was plunged into 32, and counting, of darkness and depravity.
Gordon while it’s going to be a huge temptation to characterize the onslaught against the Copts in Egypt as “sectarian tension” or as a consequence of “tit for tat” it’s a temptation I’d avoid if I were you. This is a minority population which account for 10% of Egypt’s population and they face slaughter at the hands of the army and at the hands of (euphemism alert) of the majority population. This has started, it will be ongoing and it’s only going to get worse so if I were you I’d do everything to decouple my project from theirs, while it may look good right now it most certainly won’t in a year or two.
PEW research 2010, and Gallup since then, did some widespread polling into the attitudes of the, ahem, majority Egyptian population and frankly the findings were terrifying. Terrifying in terms of their implications for secularized members of Egypt’s majority population and even more terrifying in their implication for religious minorities. For example 82% of Egypts majority population favour Stoning to Death for Adultery and over 70% in favour of death for apostasy (freedom of conscience to you or me). Factor in the implications of that when assessing the likely outcome of the fall of, in the case of Egypt, Mubarak. Democracy is indistinguishable from mob rule in the absence of civilized values and a commitment to the protection of minorities and human rights.
FWIW I don’t actually see your movement being in anyway linked to theirs, I simply object to what I see as a lazy attempt to piggy back on a phenomena which you really don’t understand and about which you don’t know a whole lot. You really don’t want to be linked to any of this, eventually the western press won’t be able to continue ignoring what the Arab spring means to minority populations in the middle east, or to homosexuals or to women and when that moment arrives you certainly don’t want to be left standing in the same corner as them. At least I hope you don’t.
Fair point.
I just want to be clear that these are my opinions – I am not attempting to represent the protest itself.
In fact there has not been to much mention of the African movements at the camp, it is I who am drawing my own conclusions.
I personally was inspired by the scenes of peaceful uprising, but I reject that I am piggy-backing on anything, except perhaps the #occupyeverywhere movement. I have gone there because of what’s happening in Ireland AND further a field.
You highlight an important problem with democracy. What happens if 99% want to kill the 1%? I would not agree with that and would be on the 1% side – even if I disagreed with them on everything else.
I feel 0% obligation to know everything that’s happening in the world. I know my reasons for supporting #OccupyDameStreet and that’s all that matters. I also know that I want a peaceful movement. It is the latter stages that I would worry about – when the power hungry try to become the new 1% as has happened in the past.
Ok, so in the end if noting else we’ve reduced the areas of disagreement. We can probably put away the weapons for the time being so.
The sectarian issues in Egypt go back way before the ‘arab spring’. It is not a result of the uprising. And as is often the case it is a minority of the population carrying out the violence.
No one’s claiming that the underlying issues were “caused” by the revolution. What’s being claimed is that the revolution is letting the Genie out of the bottle and that minorities like the Copts are paying the price. The “causes” are far far older and mirror the causes behind the massacres of Christians in Iraq and their subsequent flight to the safety of Syria*. Or the similar dissemination of the Jewish and Bahai populations of Iran in the wake of the revolution there.
*That safety being of course only temporary and will shortly be a thing of the past once Assad falls, assuming he falls that is.
Am I the only one who thinks that the whole gathering, although well-meaning, is quite a cringe-fest? The usual, well-to-do suspects issuing vague, clichéd statements with very little real substance.
No Sean, you are not the only one.
I think the idea of a popular uprising against the banking system is to be applauded but nobody is going to take this lot seriously if it’s the same old unwashed scraggy haired wasters you see at every protest
If you look at the above image you’ll see very few, if any, dreadlocks.
POWER TO THE PEOPLE
http://www.livestream.com/occupydamestreet #occupyDameStreet stream now live
Why have they moved the Shell to Sea protest to Dublin?
Were they protesting about the as fields in New York as well?
Am I wrong? These are the Shell to sea protectors aren’t they?
the west coast is too cold this time of year
Yup @Derek_Healy that’s right who can argue with the good aul tried and tested method of spending your way to prosperity and what better way can you think of spending it than overpaying public servants? You see the problem isn’t that they’re grossly overpaid it’s that there’s just not enough money. Blame the money for not reproducing itself! Now I’m off, gotta do some more work on my latest product, the self refreshing pint of beer.
Public servents grossly overpaid? I think they’d mostly beg to differ. Where exactly did you get that idea? Maybe they have it handy with paid sick leave, permanent pensionable jobs all that good stuff that us in the private sector would love, but overpaid I think is going a bit far.
The fat, lazy overpaid public servant is an idea fed to us to justify the pension levy, and perpetuated by those who are just glad someone else is in the stocks. Those on three-day weeks and worse, with whom I sympathise, are in that situation because thier market is decimated due to low spending, whereas the need for public service is as great as ever.
It’s not their debt either.
Not only is it a minority of the Egyptian population responsible for the violence towards the Copts, it is the military and police, organs of the state rather than of the pro-democracy movement, that is sponsoring it. Powerful people often use such sectarian divisions to gain and consolidate power. It is unfortunate that Egypt’s revolution is now in this precarious state, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t take inspiration from their desire for freedom, if not from their specific goals.
Take inspiration from the good bits by all means, my only objection is people’s refusal to acknowledge the awkward fact that people power in the Arab middle east usually produces the freedom to slay and destroy the lives of minority populations.
I speak as an atheist so I’ve no particular pony in this show but the blunt fact is that all this people power inevitable leads to the oppression of minorities by majorities. With the way things are trending pretty soon the entire region will be virtually christian free, the only thing to be decided is whether that state is reached through forced conversions to Islam, genocide or immigration.
For example a decade ago there were 800,000 Christians in Iraq. Today there are 150,000.. At independence Lebanon was majority Christian now it’s below 30% and when the Palestinian Authority was established in 1994, Christians made up 80 percent of Bethlehem’s population. Today they comprise less than 20% of the population. Since Hamas “liberated” Gaza in 2007, the area’s ancient Christian minority has been under constant attack. With only 3,000 members, Gaza’s Christian community has seen its churches, convents, book stores and libraries burned by Hamas members and their allies. Its members have been killed and assaulted. While Hamas has pledged to protect the Christians of Gaza, no one has been arrested for anti-Christian violence. In Turkey, the Christian population has dwindled from 2 million at the end of World War I to less than 100,000 today (btw, before some pedant jumps in I know Turkey isn’t Arab). Jordan half a century ago 18% of the population was Christian. Today 2% of Jordanians are Christian.
For lovers of trivia the only country in the Middle East with a growing Christian population is, wait for it, ISRAEL!
And it’s only going to get worse.
Been discussed onhttp://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=9691&page=12
Why arent you protesting about the oil and gas give away and how NAMA is a self regulated body in other words its just a big 40 billion cash pay out to all of the people who payed off fainna fail and by the looks of it now fine gael too. Or how this whole eu financial crisis has just been exacerbated to create an eu monetary system that will benefit manly germany and to a lesser degree france.
Ok so we kick out the IMF and then don’t pay them or anyone else back. Then we expect the same people to lend us the money on international markets???
Good luck getting anyone to lend to us after that. We’d have to stop paying public salaries and social welfare payments overnight. That’s many times worse than the current austerity!
The call for oil and gas nationalisation is also impossible at this time. Where is the government going to find the hundreds of millions that is needed to get out there and find the resources and bring them ashore? After all we don’t want those nasty corporations to invest the money for us!
And the final call for Real Democracy is just nonsense. We just had an election and candidates calling for some or all of the above only took less than 15% of the votes.
Some people just don’t know how to accept democracy. The same people who were outraged at Lisbon II now want the Irish people to vote again. Such hypocrisy.
David I actually agree with almost everything you’ve said, I would though argue that the sense of betrayal about the deal struck for the gas fields is warranted. There has to be a happy medium between virtually giving the stuff away and leaving the job of oil exploration in the hand of the public service.
This protest movement lacks intellectual ballast from what I can tell. In the video we get to see an Irish Academic thumping the tub over the unfairness of it all and not a one there is prepared to challenge her on whether she might just be one of the many beneficiaries of all this unfairness. It strikes me that if Michael Fingleton was there last night he’d have been handed the megaphone to roar his sense of grievance too. Just so long as you’re aggrieved then that seem to be fine, hop aboard the bandwagon.
Ireland is indeed a wreck and I’m all in favour of a backlash but when you check the titles on that Video you’ll notice that it’s credited to Trade Union TV. That’s another sector who’ve had their snouts in the trough for the last 15 years. Yet these young people again seem happy to ally with anyone who says “not me guv it’s the other guy.” Well it was you Guv and there’s few sectors more guilty for the inflationary feeding frenzy over the last decade, or more, than the trade unions.
Frankly I don’t object to these kids radicalism, if only they were radical, it’s their refusal to even begin the job of thinking these things through. They’re not any more savvy than their parents from what I can tell. If we have a fault as a nation it’s that we celebrate “feelings” over thought, so if you show up “feeling” properly aggrieved then you’re welcomed to the grief fest. It’s this type of thimble-headed nonsense which has put us where we are so I really despair when I see these guys (and gals) slapping themselves on the back for their idealism and radicalism.
The Arab Spring is an ongoing revolution that has its setbacks and leaps forward. This latest tragedy is the SCAF trying to instigate sectaranism as a divide and rule tactic. Its historically what any ruling class does when the people rise up to take control running the economy and society back from the 1%. The Muslims and Christians are largely standing in solidarity against the SCAF and the “little Mubaraks” ie the CEO’s in Egypt. They are doing things that are amazing like occupying their workplaces until the hated boss leaves and then electing representatives and democrasing their workplaces. Why do the LA Times try to spin this just like the SCAF? Because they are scared that the 99% in the US and Europe are about to do the same. I stand in support of the #Occupy Wall Str, #occupy dame street and on Oct 15th @1PM we are going to march from Parnell Sq to #occupyimf…everyone welcome including workers, unions, political parties, community groups and #occupy dame str
@Chris Boyd Pray tell would you, or anyone you know, be amenable to burning Mosques to cinders if any notional “ruling class” or CEO’s tried to divide and rule?
I must confess that in my entire social circle I don’t know anyone who’d be persuadable to undertake such activities much less to kill someone. But that’s exactly what’s happening in Egypt right now. Don’t you have a more plausible explanation? Perhaps something to do with the overwhelming majority of the Egyptian, ahem, “majority population” (see PEW 2010) being in favour of such revolutionary niceties as Stoning to Death for Adultery, Hanging for Apostasy, Amputation of Limbs for theft, death for Homosexuals? Or is this just counter revolutionary misinformation?
BTW, I hope you enjoy dismissing the ongoing slaughter of Egyptian Copts from the comfort of your western democracy. It would be fantastic if you’d back up your revolutionary zeal by offering to trade places with an Egyptian Copt or two. My money is on them jumping at the offer and you not lasting pissing time with the brothers in Egypt till you’re phoning home with a tale of woe and demands for repatriation.
@JSL actually I was prepared to go to Egypt in Feb only we were advised not to by our comrades in Egypt as they said this would hinder the revolution rather than help it. The rally was Christians against the law which prohibits building of churches as I understand it. The military attacked the protestors and killed many. Muslims and Christians have had demonstrations against this since this happened. The political party leaders that back the SCAF (like the Muslim Brotherhood) are also engaging in sectarian division. This is reported by comrades on the ground. I think you’ll find that there are religious fundamentalists everywhere, including the US. To suggest it has something to do with Egyptian society or the muslim religion in general is pretty much racist.
“@JSL actually I was prepared to go to Egypt in Feb only we were advised not to by our comrades in Egypt as they said this would hinder the revolution rather than help it.”
ROFL!!! Brilliant, saved by the bell Chris, lucky you.
Now @Chris_Boyd where is the following passage taken from, do you think:
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Would you say the Copts are in a state of “subjection” Chris? Would you say that passage has any relation to the slaughter of Coptic Christians in Egypt right now?
Oh and shame on you, shame on you, for attempting to use the racist smear to silence someone who’s prepared to witness the suffering of Copts. Btw, what race is Islam again, please do remind me?
US occupiers and tea party find common ground.
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/tea-party-meet-occupy-wall-street-ows-tea-party/
have your say