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Updated 5.15pm
SEVEN UNIONS HAVE now rejected the Croke Park II proposals on public sector pay and reform.
The Irish Federation of University Teachers this afternoon announced its members had rejected the proposals by a margin of three to one.
Earlier the Civil Public and Services Union (CPSU) rejected the proposals as did the Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants (ACHPS) which voted 85 per cent No to the agreement.
Those three unions join the craft workers union, UCATT, as well as the Teachers’ Union of Ireland, the Technical Engineering and Electrical Union, and Medical Laboratory Scientists Association in rejecting the deal.
The entire deal now hinges on the verdict of the two largest trade unions in the country, SIPTU and IMPACT, which are expected to announce the results of their ballots in the next two days.
Results from the Irish National Teachers Organisation (INTO), the Public Service Executive Union (PSEU) and the Prison Officers’ Association (POA) will also be needed to ensure that the proposals are accepted overall by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU).
Earlier, two unions representing builders and plasterers voted to accept the proposals.
The Building and Allied Trades Union (BATU) and the Operative Plasterers and Allied Trades Society of Ireland (OPATSI) both confirmed today that they voted in favour of the deal.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, Greg Macken, Secretary of the public service branch of BATU, which represents about 125 workers in the construction industry, said the union voted in favour of the deal “because of the job security it offers”.
“In the environment we’re in at the present moment that’s important but as well as that the basic pay hasn’t been touched,” he said. “We wouldn’t say it’s a good deal but in the current climate it’s the best deal we can get that we would be able to take control of,” he added.
Macken said he expects the results of all of the votes will see the deal pass but that he expects it will pass by a “small majority”. “We’re just waiting now because the big guns have still to cast their votes,” he said.
Billy Wall of OPATSI, which represents 75 workers, said that the agreement would have “no big hit” for members and would in fact result in an increase in annual leave from 23 days to 25.
“It’s not a bad deal for our members, I’d rather say that than it’s a good deal and I understand where other workers are in other sectors,” he said. “But in the first deal our members were decimated and I didn’t see the UNITE or the IMO coming out because plasters were being affected.”
Wall said he felt that the government had “split unions in all different ways”.
“I honestly don’t know if it’ll pass now – a month ago I would have thought it would have but we have unions standing on different sides and even the leadership of unions saying one thing and members saying another,” he said.
ICTU’s Public Services Committee meets on Wednesday where the results from each union will be taken into consideration and weighted according to their size of their membership to produce a result either accepting or rejecting the proposals.
- additional reporting from Hugh O’Connell
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Why should social housing be for life?
@John Cotter: agreed,social housing should be for a certain number of years to help you save for your own house and then that house is given to the next needy person to help them.
@John Cotter: I agree John. I was making a similar point on a different thread. We have become a welfare nation. I’m not saying this woman doesn’t deserve to be housed but there are so many people out there getting free houses with no intention of ever working or contributing. And why would they. Where’s the incentive.
@John Cotter: I know of a woman who recently moved in with her partner and her son is now living in the council house she reared him in. Her name is still on the tenancy.
@ParSim: so bloody what
@John Cotter: why shouldn’t it your comment’s are bull# making out people in social housing don’t work or pay rent, you’re nothing but a snob
@John: so basically you want the council to act like the shitty landlords of today and kick people out of their homes
@John: and yet the majority of people in social housing work. Lots of people in ireland come from families of social housing. Your narrative doesn’t make sense or is even factual lol
@John Cotter: Why is buying a house so out of reach to ordinary people? everybody should have a home. not just the all ready rich.
@Linda Waters: So he hasn’t worked a day in his life and is paying minimal rent in a three bedroom house.
@Linda Waters: Because
1: They’re not allowed do so
2: It’s not their house to gift to someone else
3: There’s a housing waiting list full of families waiting for homes
THAT’S WHY !!
@John:
You haven’t got a clue. Why do you think people are getting council housing? Because they can;t afford to get a mortgage for a house. Its alright for you you probably own your own house.
@An bhearna: it’s up to the council and not you to determine who’s entitled to a council house. You have no clue on the circumstances of someone’s tenancy other than the fact that someone made a comment on the usual old bull on here “I know someone brigade”. My brother lives in a beautiful council estate of 70 houses and out of these only 3 household do not work and one of these tenants are full time carers. No free houses and people pay rent according to their income as the council works on a differential rental system. When people get a council house the no longer qualify for HAP and pay according to the household income. If there are 6 working or in receipt of a welfare payment in the house then each person over 18 will pay rent.
@Charliegrl80: yes but the system where by a person is granted a lease for life on the property because at one point they were in need of social housing is wrong.
Look at how dun laoghaire rathdown calculate
https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/rentscheme2017_14032017_pdf.pdf
a person on 20000 would only be charged 2500 in rent for the year in an area where that’s nearly one months for people renting private. Also they can then on go on to get another job and still be charged at the same percent. The could be earning 40000 net and only be charge 6000 rent a year while someone who never qualified could be earning only 30000 and have to stay in private sector for their whole life.
@the druid: Curtain twitcher? She volunteered the information to me. Also told me herself and her partner couldn’t find a suitable house on the affordable housing list so paid €480,000 for one they thought was better suited to them.
@Charliegrl80: I was born and bred in a Corporation house which was eventually purchased by my parents. All around them there are 2 and 3 generations of the same families sponging off the taxpayer who think they’re “entitled” to inherit a house that they don’t own. These people block genuine families who work hard but may never be able to afford their own home and who need assistance from the state. And before you tell me it’s “hearsay” I’ve spoken to 4 people in the last 6 months who are living in houses that they were never a tenant in and have decided to effectively squat there because “it was me Ma’s house” Join the queue like everyone else.
@Linda Waters: Exactly. these people that only look downwards and not up. makes you wonder what we’re rearing.
I am happy for her. In Dundrum too. Prime area. What about Irish people who have been paying tax at top rate all their working lives, have no children, are never entitled to anything & are back living with their parents even though they are in their 30s & 40s?
@Margaret: Sure we’re the biggest fools of the lot.
@Porter Paddy: u said it!
@restinginmyaccpaddy: That’s the first thing I noticed why do non nationals get priority over Irish people, do we not have a duty to them the Irish people?
@Annmoore:
All 44 housing units were all handed to non nationals and none were given to Irish people. Good grief,
While I do agree the government should be providing more social housing I have three children, born and reared in the dundrum area, unable to afford a home anywhere near where they grew up.
So how does a dub, working in Dublin but unable to afford a home anywhere near the capital get a council house?
A better solution is required!
@Ro Molloy: Aye, I am a Dub, on a decent enough income and can’t afford a house anywhere in Dublin, let alone near where I grew up. It’s impossible to save for a deposit when rent is so high
@Ro Molloy: 13 years on the waiting list. Imagine what you could achieve in 13 years in a good career, working hard. But no, hang around waiting for a house, its a joke.
@JC:
Move out of Dublin then.
@Ro Molloy: The better solution would be. for more social housing
@Ro Molloy: with ur treanous government signing up to the UN migration pact in Morocco this weekend while other countries pulling out in their droves and a total irish media blackout on the signing you can for sure expect the situation get worse over the coming years.
@Regina Farrell: Fool!! You need to learn what local authority income thresholds are to still qualify for social housing
@Regina Farrell: if you had read the article correctly with C she wasn’t hanging around waiting for a house she’s been paying rent for 14 years
@Ro Molloy:
What do social housing schemes need to be in d4?
I’m delighted, a brand new house. In dundrum too! I’m glad the money I work hard for can buy at least 1 house. I can be safe in the knowledge someone doesn’t have to move back in with their parents like me. Joke of a place
@David Daly: On tv3 news they’re compaining about the maltreatment of protesters in france. they had no sympathy for IW protesters. such hypocrites.
Most of us grew up in council houses, my parents bought the house some years later from the Council others didn’t but as long as you pay your rent the house is yours. There were no subsities and rent was based on earnings. My curiousity is quite simple where are the fathers of all these children, is there no family unit.? There is something very wrong here when you constantly see mothers with children getting homes. Are married couples not been housed at all.
@Patricia Kennedy: Asked the same earlier in the week and the comment got censored.
@Patricia Kennedy: the fathers move in when things quieten down,it’s called the back door system.
@robbie: I agree if they can afford to buy the council house it’s time for them to move elsewhere and give the house to the next needy person
How was this earned? And it i buy a house it will not be for life if i don’t pay my mortgage so why should a social house be for life? Am I a fool working and paying a mortgage?
@Fergus Sheahan: yes I’m saving hard to buy a house while these people are generating kids they can’t afford at the tax payers expense.
@Dav Nagle: and never pay for painting,decorating or any maintenance…hmm maybe I shouldn’t have bought a house. Which I won’t own till I’m 70…
@Dav Nagle: perhaps those kids will pay the taxes that will support you in your old age while making significant contibutions to the country?
@Dermattg: or perhaps they’ll follow their mothers example
@Dermattg: maybe . . But I have paid enough into my own pension pot to pay for my pension. Should work stress allow me to get to that point.
“I have security for life”.I have security for the next six months.
@patrick o keeffe: Not only that but a house that will be excess to her needs in few years when the kids are gone but other families need it. They should be five year leases with a reassessment of needs at the end of it.
@Darren Byrne: that’s the way it should be ..
@Siobhán Ni Mhurchú: I have no issue with social as it is totally necessary but the way it has been implemented is just wrong. It’s why I believe councils push HAP so much because eventually people stop qualifying for it
Part of story a bit vague. She renting house for 14yrs on list for 13and a half? So is she living here longer or was it straight off the plane and straight to dunlaoghaire/rathdown co co to register on list?
@Anthony Whelan: There is enough land around dublin to build houses for everyone. a compulsory purchase order on land in the dublin area is in our constitution. started by a yellow vest protest.
@Anthony Whelan: You have to be resident and ‘economically active’ in Ireland for at least 3 years before you can claim Benefits. EU rules.
@Sean Conway: correct. My sister bought a small council house for herself and her young son. Built 50 years, small, tidy home and they love it. What we need is proper statesmen/women who are in nobody’s pocket and the moral courage to take on the the advantaged and those who profit from others misfortunes. Someone who will risk their political neck and eschew even the party whip when the common good is at stake. Had hopes for young SFers but look very much like they have the same malaise as the rest.
@ForeverFeel1ng: r u certain? I intend to verify this. I could b wrong but my understanding is all EU citizens treated in other EU countries as if that person’s country of birth, hence Irish people can access healthcare in other EU countries. Then again I am an Economist so what would I know.
@Margaret: rubbish . . As I thought
@Dermattg: Homelessness is big business for the wealthy.
Seen as I’ve been renting since I left home over 20yrs ago will I be housed if my landlord wants his/her apartment back? Damm right I won’t, and why is that? Basically it’s because I work though earn enough (barely) not to be given rent aid and not enough to be given a mortgage. Country is a bloody joke
Why bother working??
44 down 99,956 to go, keep up the good work Eoghan.
I’ve rented the last 10 years and it’s only in the back of my mind the landlord can kick me out. Must be nice to have that security for no work at all.
@PurpleRain: Like many I am in the same boat but instead of the salty comments of the few on in here you have yourselves to blame fools. Keep voting the the same FF/FG and keep wondering why nothing is ever improving for the Joe soap down the road!!
This woman at list spent 13.5 years on the list. There was an article recently how 24 and 26 years old women got social houses. There is zero transparency is how social houses allocated. For instance DCC declared that they don’t prioritize people living in hotels for social housing anymore and at the same time giving to 24 years old while other families wait for 15 years and more! So go homeless and skip the list perfectly works as before.
Why do they build social housing in exclusive parts of Dublin? Would it not be better/less expensive for the government to build social housing in less expensive parts of the country?
Its great to sercurity for life,im paying a huge debt on a 4 bed semi and if i cant pay im turfed out, 20 years left on 380,000 mortgage ,paying it back is slowly killing me,but fair play you ,im the ghoul .
Reading some of these comments makes me sick. Especially since I’m Irish, in my thirties, worked just to try and pay rent the last ten years and back home now after unfair dismissal. Yet somehow it didn’t make me bitter like the rest of my countryfolk posting here in The same boat. Delighted for this human and her family. Nobody lives where they’re originally from, not even us Irish with direct celtic descent, we were rushed out of europe and took this land from the people who were here before us. Stop being so close minded, take a step back and see the bigger picture of the species. I don’t know if she’s born in Ireland or moved here but it shouldn’t matter, her life is here and this is her and her children’s home.
@Todd Umptious: your in big trouble now. You said “human”
I thought we were not allowed to say “human” anymore:)
The PC brigade will be up in arms now. Quick run for cover.
@Todd Umptious: well said!
13 years on a housing list is madness
Just be happy for the woman ffs. Us Irish are really bitter. Although lots of you won’t admit to it we are a bitter people. From an off the cuff remark to a friend or in the pub the bitterness is their. You know it I know it everyone knows it.
@Alan foggorty: whines bitter old alan
@Alan foggorty: yeah bitter because it’s absolutely unfair that this is happening, of course we all have sympathy for people who fall on hard times but how is it fair that this woman Has a 3 bed semi in dundrum and I have had to move my family out of my home in Dublin to the other side of the country just doing can afford to rent a house.
Finally a good news story
Just once I’d love to see one of the ‘sure why would you work?’ people actually put their money where their mouth is and quite their job to live on the social. But they won’t, because deep down they know they’re better off working!
@Keith O’Reilly: u can not quit a job to go on the dole.
@Keith O’Reilly: or maybe work makes them feel better in themselves. You know getting up and out everyday. Your not supposed to ”live on the social ” it’s there as a quick short term aid. So tell us what has you living on the social as you seem to think it’s a alternative for working
@Margaret: there are so many people in casual employment, zero hours etc that they can’t check anymore, people are being treated like dirt in the private sector and if they show up at the dole office the fact is they need help
Security for life if you don’t breach your tenancy agreement
Why do so many people here begrudge this woman an affordable home?? If you are working and providing for your family in difficult circumstances (as she is) why should you not get support.
And don’t start replying on here about how you are struggling more, the criteria are universal, apply for a social house and get on the list if you’re all so needy.
@ForeverFeel1ng: ehh because we do not qualify . . We work . . We take responsibility & don’t have children we can not provide for. . Where is/are the father/s?
I wonder how many people commenting on her nationality would also be calling brexit voters little englanders?
@Kenneth Finnerty: there is only 1 real reason why Brexit is happening.
@Suzanne Bell: Should could be Irish and married someone from Eastern Europe? Either way. What does it matter?
44! Woooo! Only 9000+ to go. At this rate our homelessness levels will reach pre-recession numbers by 2200!!#keeptherecoverygoing
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