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LABOUR PARTY MINISTER Joe Costello has said that the Croke Park Agreement is the ‘most successful social contract in the history of the State’.
The Minister for Trade and Development has issued a statement this afternoon in response to what he said were “short-sighted and irresponsible” calls for the the agreement on public sector pay and reform to be torn up.
Earlier, his fellow Minister Leo Varadkar said the government was committed to the agreement, which runs until the end of next year, but said that negotiations about extending it or formulating a successor to it would need to happen ‘within six to eight months if not sooner’.
Ahead of December’s Budget pressure is growing from many including backbench Fine Gael TDs for the agreement, which guarantees rates of pay for public sector workers, to be re-examined.
But Costello said today in a statement: “The Croke Park Agreement is the most successful social contract in the history of the State considering the enormous austerity measures contained therein.
“Yet there are constant calls for compulsory redundancies an immediate restructuring of the Agreement and indeed for the Agreement to be torn up.
“These calls are short-sighted and irresponsible in the context of the Progamme of Government and more particularly in the context of exiting the Troika Programme and regaining our economic sovereignty.”
He cited the second progress report published by the Croke Park Agreement Implementation Body in June which said that the agreement had been effective in delivering a reduction in the number of people working in the public service, restructuring and maintaining industrial peace.
Costello said: “Public service numbers have reduced by 28,000 since 2008 from 320,000 to 292,000 in 2012. Meanwhile the number of staff in the public sector in Northern Ireland is in excess of 230,000.
“Northern Ireland is an administrative unit of only six counties compared to the twenty-six county Republic which is more than four times greater in size.
“Likewise the Exchequer pay-bill has been reduced from €17.5 billion to €14.4 billion or €3.1 billion between 2009 and 2012.
“The Report details extensive productivity and efficiencies in Education, Health, Defence, the Prison and Garda Síochána Service, Civil, State Agencies and Local Government.”
The agreement is finished and so are Labour
Dead right. They could’ve done so much, but they chose to secure pensions for the ageing socialists instead. Muppets. Roll on 2013, when labour jump ship and we have a chance to wipe them bloody out.
The agreement should never have been signed in the first place, public sector unions holding the government and Irish people to ransom with threats of strikes, it’s a disgrace and the sooner it ends the better, Joe Costello is deluded to even think this way, let alone speak publicly about it
@Gaius
Joe’s sticking to his pre-election promises. Although I can’t say I agree with him, he’s now in government with our mandate.
Calling him deluded is a bit unfair, no?
Yep ,JC is a deluded union stooge!
It has delivered. Just not enough. And pay is rising…It’s dead in the water and indefensible in the current climate…
Did you not read the article, it says 3.1 billion has been saved, how else is that apart from pay?
Thats right Vocal. And as I said, increments continue to be paid throughout the course of this agreement. Progress has been made. But its not enough… 26,000 people have left the PS, a fraction of the jobs lost in the private sector. And at that, the PS is still too big. It needs to do more with less – an ideology every private sector worker is very familiar with…
Again, did you read the article, did you notice the comparison with the figures from Northern Ireland?
Btw, exactly how many nurses, Gardai and council workers do you want fired?
So its official. NI Public Service is grossly bloated too. But we knew that. Pointing the figure and saying “they’re worse” won’t solve our problem. As for nurses, Gardai – its actually not about them. It’s all the administration sitting behind that…
But front line services do need some logistical support, my question is how far do you cut?
Eh, pay is not rising.
When I got my job, I was told that after 20 years Id be earning €45k. Im not earning that yet but I get my increment which after said time, means I’ll be at that point.
I knew what my salary scale started at (this has decreased since) and I knew what I would earn max.
I pay €350pm into a pension fund and will do for 42 years, this payment will increase each year. I have to pay this, I do not have a choice and my maximum pension will be €12,500 a year.
A lot of the administrative work for NI is done in London, so the figures are irrelevant. It’s like asking how many university lecturers are working on Aran Mor.
The Minister is completely wrong…..the pay bill has gone down but the pension bill has gone up and nearly by as much as they saved!!!!!!!
Why wouldn’t the Unions sign up to a deal that pays their members fifty per cent more in salaries than comparable workers in the Private sector plus guarantee their jobs and pay them a pension that no employer in the private sector could afford. This Labour Junior Minister has lost the plot!
Vocal, as to how far do you go with cuts, its unrolled the maximum efficiency is reached. If you worked on a production line, or packing shelves in a supermarket, hell even scanning goods through a till, you have to hit a targeted productivity rate!! Everybody working at the same speed. You exhaust every efficiency initiative you can implement to ensure a lean efficient service and workforce that delivers on the citizens expectations….
Mick, public sector workers pay a lump sum every month from our gross which goes into a pension fund. This is then used to fund projects by the state. It does not sit in a safe until we retire and then the government hand me millions on top of my contributions.
If i worked in the private sector I would earn more, thats a fact.
I have a friend who left the public sector and went to the private sector. He had been working up to 60 hours a week including nights, weekends, christmas day etc and earned about €60k as a highly skilled, highly educated medical member of staff. he moved to a private clinic and now does 40 hours a week and gets €80k.
Hows about YOU put €350 from your gross into a pension fund or better still, get a skill that the PS requires like I got off my arse and trained for.
Tomas you say: Mark, there are no men and women in the garden of Remembrance. Please stop pretending you know Ireland. You should look closer to home for the reason people like this Ryan lad exist.
As much as I despise his ilk, I can understand why people like him exist so until youre from a country that has been raped by an imperial force that caused genocide and wiped out half your countries population instead of being from the country that harmed millions, please hush.
Tom i don’t pretend i know about Ireland mate… Whether the people that died for the republic are buired at the garden of Remembrance or in glasnevin they would be turning in their graves with what happened at ryans funeral. I should look closer to home for the reason people like this Ryan lad exist you say. What has my country got to do with the drug problem in Dublin/Ireland the money laundering, bank robbery, fuel laundering, armed robberies and kidnapping. My country is not responsible for the criminal activities these people get involved with in Ireland. Get real mate don’t be stupid.
Mark, hows about responding to my comment under the heading it was intended for instead of commenting off topic?
Do some research before posting ridiculous comments. The last thing Ireland needs is more of your ilk pretending you know us.
We can no longer comment on that page Tom, i don’t want to know you. As i said in my last comment,
i don’t pretend i know about Ireland mate… Whether the people that died for the republic are buired at the garden of Remembrance or in glasnevin they would be turning in their graves with what happened at ryans funeral. I should look closer to home for the reason people like this Ryan lad exist you say. What has my country got to do with the drug problem in Dublin/Ireland the money laundering, bank robbery, fuel laundering, armed robberies and kidnapping. My country is not responsible for the criminal activities these people get involved with in Ireland. Get real mate don’t be stupid.
Not that it is any of your business but i have a property and business in Dublin.
vocal outrage, the people I want fired are the fake roles in HSE. for vexample, all the new nursing managers, the thousands of walking clip boards whip add zero value.
@ Tommy C , from what you have said you would not earn more in the private sector , infact there is high chance would be let go . By your own admission you have no ambition , you got a job, looked to see what you would paid in same job in 20 year time , prompotion didnt even seem to ccour to you . In an FDI company you would be assessed twice a year on performance and you would be on the same pay you started on if you didnt perform , tenure means nothing .I think it is ignored that many privte company have grades with pay scales, the things is you only get you increment when you meet performance standands , public sector paid theirs even when we are broke just for turning up .You would also be considered deadwood to have remained for that long in the one role . We can also deduce that you do not act rationally , to stay in job where you work more hours and pays so much less unless you are offsetting it against other factors you did not mention Last point about the pensions ( no matter what tou say you put into YOUR penssion , IT WILL NOT COVER the amount that you will get in lump sum and pension payments if you retire at the retirement age and live to the average expectancy .I.E simply put , It is Propped up by the private sector many of whom have no pension. Discuss
The public service are a convenient scapegoat for the politicians, bankers and property developers who bankrupted the country. If the crooked park agreement is torn up then so will industrial peace. It is this stability brought about by industrial peace that will allow Ireland to exit the bailout programme early.
I think the unions played a role in bankrupting the country too. Granted the government went along with it but it was the ordinary tax payer that had to fund the extravagance that was benchmarking. Most people that I know that want croke park scrapped are not out to target low paid workers. They want the government to address the ridiculously high salaries that some senior public servants earn. The want a public service were redundancies can be made where necessary and where a pay freeze means a pay freeze. They also want people to be promoted on the basis of merit and not length of service. The croke park agreement has cemented the crazy idea of a job for life for nothing in return. That’s an insult to the tax payer and to the many hard working public servants
If Croke Park is to be renegotiated, you can expect every section of the PS to strike, work to rule, go slow, and rightly so.
Croke Park has over delivered, in fact, at this very moment, Croke Park could be scrapped as it has already delivered its negotiated cuts for its entire duration (IE: upto the end of 2014).
As for PS workers getting paid their rises – clearly you have no idea what it is they do get paid. No PS worker has gotten paid a pay rise. Quite the opposite, salaries have dropped by 25% in many cases, in some cases, you can expect to earn 50% less than you would had you entered the PS 4 years ago, add to that most allowances have been scrapped.
Please don’t turn this into a PS bash fest, it’s very unnecessary.
The key here is “had you entered 4 years ago”. The cuts are disproportionately affecting new entrants and existing workers are protected. Some solidarity from the unions eh, what a joke
So, now you pay for your pension. Sounds like equality to me. You still are in line for unilateral increments, requiring no proof of ability to get them.
Public servants were already paying 7-8% into their pensions before the pension levy. We are now paying an average of 15% into a pension fund that takes in more than it pays out. Not that Varadker and Fine Gael will ever let that little fact out of the bag. The public service must be kept as the national punch bag so everyone else forgets who REALLY got us into this mess.
Sham, existing workers are not protected, they too have had cuts.
Alan, PSW have always paid into pensions, in fact in many areas more is paid in than is paid out.
I’m not entirely sure what you are on about with regard to progression?
It’s a pity that discussion like this feels like a PS bash. In reality, it’s not. Private sector manages all this stuff, but in private. Or at least of its public, it’s not as devise and so the perception is that pain is PS only. I am private sector and now earn what I earned in 2001, but do twice as much. I’d like to see some PS admin staff I know work twice as much without it being twisted as bullying. It happens.
I guess the argument is unwinnable by anyone as every opinion counts and is right from someone’s perspective.
I would like to see the LRC chairman’s conflict of interest in terms of commenting about CPA yet also benefiting, sorted out. Ethics is something he should learn about.
Has over delivered???? Are u having a laugh??? Deal with facts lad!! Deluded comment..
I don’t know how Sham’s comment got so red thumbed. There really has been a ridiculous punch taken at those new entrants to PS through the agreement.
People continue to point at the public service generally as if everyone in the PS deserves the same percentage pay cut. PS average pay is considerably above private sector. It’s higher not because of frontline wages, it’s with the mid to top level people that the problem lies.
Most sensible thing on this all day. A public servant starts on a low salary and it takes 11 years to get to the full pay for his job, something like an apprenticeship. Promotions are not given by length of service either, but by merit.
I concur with your views, many public hospitals are now vastly understaffed, more and more people abandoning their health insurance. I only hope to god I don’t need a hospital soon
It is working just not fast enough for the troika who want us all ‘in line with the rest if europe’ what ever that means.?!..but the shits gonna hit the fan when it does come to a renegotiation…..strike strike strike from the frontline who are gonna be the scapegoat yet again. The boards, committees and such with too many paper pushers in suits will not have to take any cuts. It will be the guards, nurses and rangers who get shafted.
So public sector pay is up by 3%, great job lads.
That’s a great report Pearse. Puts PS pay in context…
Headline grabbing rubbish. This report includes semi state companies and does not minus the pension levy from public sector wages. Lol honestly lads stop targeting public service with such poor evidence. And by the way it’s not private versus public it should be people vs the government/banks for getting us in this mess.
Wish i could give tommy c a few hundred thumbs up. Well said! Everyone in private sector bash pub sector pension but they all seem to overlook the amount the public sector pay into pension fund from the minute they get their first pay cheque till they retire
The only thing CP has delivered reduction in numbers which still cost the country €€€€ Croke Park has been a flak jacket for the well healed mid to top range civil servants. No real changes will be made that will affect them; the new entrants will have to take a huge hit just to protect the old guard. Those savings from CP will not have any impact on the economy for 10 years. The country needs those savings now, and that will only happen by cutting allowances and changing work practices across the board now. Croke Park is just one big fudge.
Tommy C
If you put twice that amount into a pension fund for the next forty years it wouldn’t get you a guaranteed index linked pension fund and that shows your first huge misunderstanding. If you read the report published last week it shows Public sector salaries at fifty per cent higher than the Private sector never mind what your friend got from changing his employment . Thats a misunderstanding that’s difficult to accept but the real no no is the safety of your employment. You’d have to belt a Minister on the nose to lose your job and nobody in the Private sector has that uncosted luxury.
But the real issue is among the unemployed because they were one hundred per cent in the Private sector and that’s the bit you don’t get ….isn’t it?
So I pay €350pm now which goes up every year till I earn my maximum salary of €55k after 20 years. I think paying at least €350pm up to 850pm will certainly cover the vast majority of my pension.
Maybe you should insist your employer sort out your pension fund? Our unions fought for us, get the finger out and fight for yourselves instead of the jealousy.
Re – the size of public sector it is proportionally smaller than virtually every other European country and America – so it is not bloated – the wage bill as a proportion of GDP is also a lower percentage than the European average – if you need precise figures and sources I will be happy to oblige but I am pretty busy with work so I probably won’t get to that till next weekend – but if anyone wants them I can direct you – every OECD report on public sector in Ireland concluded it was lean and underfunded – all of the above mean the public sector cannot be blamed for the state of the public finances – that is due to our low tax burden – I will deal with that in a second – but firstly no- one refers to purchasing power parity when comparing wages across Europe – look up Eurostat – Ireland is 20% more expensive than countries like Germany – so if their is a 20% wage differential that means equality in terms of purchasing power or real not nominal wages – furthermore people in places like Germany receive a “social wage” as part of their remuneration that is never factored in when comparing wages – employers both private and public pay a much higher PRSI equivalent contribution – this pays for social services and things like free GP care etc) – if employers in Ireland were required to pay the same percentage contribution it would raise 9.5 billion and thus eliminate the structural deficit – again can provide source – sorry for providing a fact heavy and polemic light contribution but reasoned analysis is sadly lacking in this “me fein” scapegoat seeking culture we are living through
I hope ur not charging overtime while you are in the journal?
Sick and tired of this sh1t about cutting public sector wages… No one screaming during the boom about soaring wages in private sector every f**king one of ye had yet hand in the till wages soared and public service left behind. Now the banks of this land have screwed us all over private sector screaming for my wages to be cut. Fine cut them I won’t have a bean to put back into society no money for those little extras that keep thousands in jobs already. I can just scrape my mortgage each month. No foreign holidays or fancy car for me.
Wow – such wild statements based on Chinese whispers and Sindo campaigning – first up have to declare interest – public sector worker – but did work in private sector for 7 years before that – now some facts for anyone interested – first up average public sector wage in Britain is 35,000 euros not 26,000 as quoted here by an insufferably and arrogantly prescriptive contributor, also 70% of public sector workers earn less than 40,000 – I am all for cutting excessive wages at the top of the public and private sector and reducing obscene differentials – 51% of public sector workers in Ireland have 3rd level qualifications versus 28% of private – the average figures for the private sector are skewed by the large numbers working in retail, services and food/hospitality all of which earn minuscule wages compared to every other private and public sector worker – there is a differential in pay across public and private sector in every European country and this reflects the higher proportion of skilled work requiring particular qualifications and training – CSO figures exclude the pension levy and thus do not accurately reflect changes in take home pay – despite increments which are not pay increases but an agreed staggering of wages across your lifetime – all public sector pay has been cut by a minimum of 12 % since 2009 – even if all public sector workers were unpaid there would still be a deficit – more in next post
Labour love the Croke park agreement. Is this news Ffs? Labour only care about the unions. CP has been total joke for everyone except PS unions.
protect the low paid and front line and get rid of the fat cats but Labour will do the opposite. Senior Party members are smoked salmon socialists and the sooner they go the better
Labour are deluded if that’s what the think of the CPA, protect the already protected and let the most vulnerable suffer, at least it’s good politics by them protecting their core vote!
The crime park agreement is a phoney deal,made by phoney politicians,in a phoney time,were they all on drugs at the time,my god it just gets better…what a laugh..
Agree fully ! But I’ll smoke whatever Costello is on !
Not as successful as the “Costello Agreement”
1. Emer Costello (Mrs Joe) was made (an unelected) MEP
2. Her sister Mary Moran is a Taoiseach’s nominee to the Seanad
3. Another sister Gráinne Malone became a District Court judge in November.
Even FF must stand back in admiration!!
The only reality here is that the ‘savings’ are not real. They are accountancy trickery. Anyone who knows anyone in the public service will tell you very little has changed. Things have been moved around. Work practices for all are the same. Cuts come to services and not to increased productivity, which is a notional concept at best. The CPA is dead and should be scrapped. In my opinion.
Alan, we have always paid for our pensions.
Im a PS worker. We now have 5 people attempting to do the work of 9 or 10. We cant, its not possible so patients will suffer. We are all working around an extra 90 minutes a day due to the extended work day and we are down 15% in our take home pay.
Good to hear. Would love to see that effort across the board. In my limited view, front line gets hit, but admin staff still do the same job from 10 years ago. Lots of sick days. No real productivity.
Thanks for the response.
Sorry Alan but your wrong…. Our work practices have changed dramatically, in fact we are working in conditions which probably would have justified industrial action before the croke park agreement. CPA has meant huge changes for my little corner of the PS….
@ Tommy C, would it be fair to say that 2 people could probably handle the workload of the 5 people now doing 9-10 peoples work?
It is interesting to read the defenders of
CPA, they see the change which is good to see. CPA is working for them.
Problem is the folks who have not seen change will never come here and defend anything. And they are the ones not helping the public service pr. Some depts change, some don’t and lots of us out there see the ones who don’t. We expect uniformity is the ps, because unions speak in this manner when defending, yet it doesn’t reflect reality.
Gracius,
No. Have you ever followed a doctor or a nurse around a hospital? There are not enough hours in the day to get everything done.
90 mins? 12 hour days equate 4 hours overtime a day.
Something is going to give with the public service, and if CPA is renegotiated, consider it a given that PSW’s will go for all out strike.
I would like CPA renegotiated for everyone except those on the front line. Take direct aim at the admin back room staff. Stuff that can be managed in a similar way to private sector.
Gaius, Ive already said there are 5 of us attempting to do the work of 9 or 10 people and we just cant. We each only have 2 arms.
I hope they don’t go on a “Go Slow” as if they go any slower they will stop altogether. There are 6 month delays in some section of the welfare system and who suffers? The people on welfare that’s who.
We need a revelation within politics and it won’t happen as all the TDs are corrupt (look up the meaning of corrupt).
Rather than it bring a ‘Go Slow’ could it be that the delays are as a result of cuts so far meaning the social services no longer have the frontline resources to cope?
No it doesn’t mean that. It’s from inefficiency and half the people ringing in sick every month
Sean, the very nature of working with sick people means you’ll get sick and will need to take time off.
Also, would you like me to come to work coughing and sneezing all over your premature baby or over your relative with the non existant immune system due to their chemo?
Tommy, not that old chestnut again. If that’s the reason why are absentee rates in private hospitals significantly lower than in public? I’m sure the patients there are even more likely to complain if the staff are sneezing on the premature babies
Sham, by the very nature of private hospitals paying their staff more, theyre fully staffed and no one ends up having to work extra hours. We do. No one in a private hospital has ever gone into work for a 9 hour shift and ended up having to do 32 hours with 10 hours till their next 32 hour shift. That is not good for an individuals health. Private hospitals have the better conditions of the 2. We have a mandatory pension scheme. Thats the major difference.
Tommy, is it not sneezing on premature babies or the 32 hour shifts? Because the story seems to be changing
There’s no 6 month waiting list for any immigrant or freshly released prisoner, and that’s a fact.they get priority over the honest working man who has unfortunately lost his job.
Stop venting your anger on public servents- they educate your children, protect you from criminals, save your life….and pay you your dole.
This government has an anti Irish agenda- foreigners get children’s allowance given to them even though they weren’t born here and don’t live here anymore for gods sake!
Thats our money!cutbacks and government enforced bureaucracy are the cause of delays in social welfare.
Sham, its both. If Im in the PS and am doing a 9 hour shift which then becomes a 32 hour shift due to lack of staff, if Im feeling even slightly ill, this overwork and lack of sleep exacerbates health issues but obviously that doesnt bother you.
Next time your family member is in hospital, be sure to let me know and I’ll ensure Im looking after them when Im not feeling too well but cant leave due to understaffing. Heaven forbid I might be the sick one.
Tommy if you are not well you should stay at home, you don’t want to make more people sick do you? If you are not well they will replace you.
People in this country are already complaining that we dont have enough doctors and nurses etc and that new graduates are emigrating. well if you keep cutting wages, it wont be worth our while staying here at all when countries like Aus,Cananda, USA, NZ, the UAE etc pay us far more with much better conditions.
Tommy
The people complaining about us not having enough nurses and doctors are……..nurses and doctors!
Mick, why does a call shift exist?
There are not half enough nurses and doctors. You will find doctors working 36 hour shifts (a days work followed by a night on call (in the hospital, usually spent catching up with jobs from the day) followed by another days work). Nurses leave their shifts with jobs not done because their are not enough.
People should be made follow a nurse and a doctor around for one day once a year. You would soon appreciate what trite rubbish it is that they put up with.
Guess what Mick! Im not a nurse or a doctor but i can assure you, we dont have enough!
According to that logic Ireland cannot afford to pay public sector workers at all. You preclude analysis of all the other more significant factors that have created the deficit – but have to go – can enumerate them another time perhaps
What planet is Joe Costello on.
No Croke park = complete breakdown , regular strikes , more damage to the economy. This isn’t just a numbers game it’s much more complicated than that .
For Joe Soap, it seems like much of the public sector is on permanent strike, so we probably won’t notice much of a difference, we’re always waiting anyway
Daithi
That’s an ugly threat. Keep our wages and salaries at fifty per,cent above the Private Sector one we will shut down the State with industrial action. Well bucko………that’s a threat that just might do the trick….and give the politicians the nerve they’ll need to bring your earnings in line.!
Notice you didn’t engage in a substantive way with any if the points I raised Mick my bucko
Ah jaysus Mick – I’m not at work – getting stuff ready for tomorrow – overtime not option for me – Good lad !
I actually think we need to call the bluff of the Unions. From what I hear they have a war chest to last about 4-5 weeks of striking. After that, well, go back to work or go bust. It would be worth having the confrontation in the national interest, get it over with and move on. Security of employment must come at a premium, and it’s about time the unions recognised that.
Pure nonsense, the only ones that whisper strike are scaremongers, ive no interest in striking, nobody I work with has either. We are continually reforming and changing old practices at cost to us and to the services provided. Can you explain what happens when nobody answers when you call 112 during this five week stand off. Some have been calling for cuts for four years now, wages have been cut as far as they can under the CPA (rightly or wrongly depending on your view) so now in order to keep costs down the services are starting to get curtailed. You have gotten what you screamed for.
@simon o connor…. Remember what u have said if u ever have the misfortune of needing a nurse or a garda if there ever is a strike…. Hope u get ample time to eat ur worsds!
@Angela, again threatening the Irish people with withholding services to ensure you keep your perks and benefits, disgraceful
So Dave what would you do if Croke park was scrapped and they tell yoU you will be working for 20% less pay again and no guarantees of not having further cuts next year ? I’ve talked to a lot of public sector workers : teachers nurses guards and they all said they’d strike to protect what’s left of their wages.
You’re talking to different people than I am. Striking will just make things worse. It’s hard enough justifying what we do without alienating people that depend on us further. You’re being a bit hypothetical with cuts an figures so I’ll answer hypothetically, I’d more likely refuse past and future reforms but still show for work and keep plugging away.
Despite all the smoke and mirrors,since Croke Park we have added almost €80 billion in debt through annual overspending, and we still have an €18 billion PER ANNUM deficit. It is simple maths. We will run out of road. We cannot afford public sector pay levels!
You dont even know what our pay levels are so cut the crap! Stop repeating nonsense you here from other people who havent a clue!
And why can’t it be takin out of the private sector; the public sector are already paying for the damage done to this country were there down to bread and butter, while the private sector have their nice big houses, big cars, and fat pay checks also including expenses for whatever the hell they lik.
The governments wages matched up to over €50 BILLION, whilst their expenses came to €64 billion.
This agreement is to protect the ones that are going home with their nice big fat pay checks and nothing to worry about
It’s time the high fliers of the country paid for their own mistakes instead of making the ordinary Irish working person crumble under the pressure of tax raises, raised prices in everything and reduced wages. Where is the fairness in that??
http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government
Croke park has worked and as Public sector employee I would welcome early talks for a Croke park 2. I take pride in what we achieved so far and I am optimistic we can do more. I am enthusiastic about bringing this country out of a hole dug by previous decisions. While we all had a part to play in the down fall of this country it no longer matters. Public vs private, public sector bashing or the labelling of the private sector as pillagers won’t help. This whole country has done wonders so far and probably can do a whole lot more.
Agree with you except the part where you say we all had a part to play in the downfall of this country: some, not all of us.
I work in the private sector Mick , I’m talking about reality not hot air. We are not dealing with numbers we are dealing with a massive amount of people with their different worries, anxieties, stresses and plenty with the macho posturing that you attempt to evoke. Where else can you go with that without a negotiated path ? I realise that most of the men posting on here adhere to the Maggie Thatcher school of industrial relations but her behaviour was as disastrous for British society as it was a boon to the wealthy.
Daithi
Interesting to see the early attitudes when there is even a whisper of a Benchmarking exercise. Last time it was carried out under the Official Secrets Act and the analyses were sent to the incinerators rather than be exposed for the fraud it was .This time it must be carried our in the full glare of public gaze and with complete transparency so the Unions trousers are around there ankles and they are unable to lead a dishonest walkout or strike. We already know from a published analysis that PS are paid substantially more than the Private sector and we should be fair as to where the axe will fall but this time no cosy retirement deals or enormous redundancy payments just some old fashioned basic salary cuts.
@gauis. That wasnt a threat… That was a reasonable response to a previous comment. And we are talking about nurses and gardai and other frontline staff here. Do u think that the average gross income of a senior grade of less than 40k and i mean gross before all taxes levies etc are removed is too much?? And might i add it takes 20 yrs to reach that level of pay. What exactly is ur problem and who exactly in the public sector would u like to see having their pay cut????? The frontline staff who work for 40 to 50hrs aday…. Majority without extra pay… or the top grades many of whome earn 3 to 4 times this much for a regular 9 to 5 day???
It really is a shame that no one broke the strangle hold the unions have on the country here as Margaret Thatcher did in the UK. If they had a lot of the problems now would not be happening. Unions were invented to protect the right of workers NOT to be gangsters extorting unrealistic pay and bonuses for those working for the government as it has now become… I am all for better pay and conditions for front line staff like nurses and junior doctors and trainee teachers… all other arms of government employees are well paid and have very unrealistic perks without exception and with little or no oversight or accountability for their actions or decisions. This madness has to stop and our politicians have no stomach for it because being the tip of the unionised pile they are the ones that benefit the most with pay ,perks, un-accountability and pensions
Anyone hear or see a politician, being upset about being paid too much?
According to that logic no public sector worker should be paid at all – you preclude discussion of all the other far more significant factors that have led to the deficit and therefore point to how it may be repaired – but I have to go – I will try to enumerate them at a later date
According to that logic Ireland cannot afford to pay public sector workers at all. You preclude analysis of all the other more significant factors that have created the deficit – but have to go – can enumerate them another time perhaps
Mick there’s plenty of room to cut the higher paid public sector but as they consist of the politicians and those closest to them it’ll never happen.
Just want to explain about public sector increments: as I said earlier, a public servant starts on a low wage and it takes him 11 years to get to his full wage for his position.each year his wages rise a small amount until he teaches year 11.
Now, these small annual rises towards full pay are called increments. Do they are not pay rises.
Now- this is something that hadn’t been mentioned-in order to acquire each increment, the public servant is subject to an annual assessment from his superiors on his performance during the year- efficancy, attitude, punctuality,attendance, adaptability,capability, self advancement,courses attended and so on.he is gradedon a points system between 1 and 5.
If the individual is found unsatisfactory and scores low, he could either not get his increment or even lose the increment he is already on.
If the public servant has over11 years done and is at last on full pay, he is still subject to these annual assessments until he retires, unsatisfactory performances among he could have his wages and subsequently his pension reduced.
So don’t say we have a guaranteed pay rise every year.it takes 11 years to reach your full pay grade.an electrician in the private sector takes just 5 after his apprenticeship.
factor in the increase in pension payments and the amount saved becomes a pittance.
Like today there are NO winners with Croke Park !!
We pay for our pension. I for one am sick of this Crap the banks broke the country and nobody is on here giving out about them. All the people in the private sector who got mortgages they shouldn’t have got. Public sector workers got mortgage because we could afford them. If they do try to re negotiate then The shit will hit the fan big time. Cant wait
Peter I can understand why you can’t wait again you’ll have the opportunity to hold the sick ,old and infirm to hostage .If the public sector decide to strike let them take responsibility for the outcomes,but I forgot these groups don’t take responsibility for anything .Your pompous comment about private sector workers taking mortgages they could not afford who the hell creates most of the country’s wealth.As Margaret Thatcher once said Governments and Civil Servants don’t make money they just spend it and in our case very badly.
public sector jobs were advertised to all if you decided to go private sector thats your choice don’t be crying cause it didn’t work out and dont begrudge the public sector worker his wage
Mark the grading system is a joke nobody has ever had their increment or pension reduced. even the laziest and inefficient get the increments. I have never heard of one single case where a public service worker has gotten a bad review.
Damien are you a public servant?
Well I am and I can assure you that more than a few of my colleagues in my department and in other departments have lost increments for varying reasons.
It seems to me that some people can’t handle the truth when it’s put to them and they just believe what they presume to be true.
I cant wait till labour’s gone, then the agreement can be scrapped and the bloated overpaid lazy civil service can finally feel the pain of the rest of the country
Spend a shout with a Garda on the beat
Spend a day on the overcrowded dangerous landings of Mountjoy prison
Go to a&e in the mater hospitals
Spend a Saturday or Friday night with a DfB ambulance crew
And when this is done, ask those people to show you there payslips, provided none of them are injured.
You are unjustified in your comment.
Publish the statistics showing the performance of the sector so , what % fail to get increments due to poor performance ?and @joe Costello , if this is the best social agreement ever I hate to think just how bad the worst one was , maybe benchmarking ?appears labour and co are Not so keen to be benchmarked downwards I see…hmm interesting
have your say