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THE DÁIL REACHED a new low in its debate last night, amid cries of “farce” from every side of the chamber.
There were two hours of arguing over the total cost of the €100 “water conservation grant”, with opposition deputies calling for an adjournment so Kelly could, in their view, get the correct figures.
Coalition TDs, meanwhile, accused those on the other side of “objectionism.”
Independent TD Séamus Healy and Socialist TD Joe Higgins both proposed a formal adjournment, but then there was an argument over whether that would require a vote, or Leas Ceann Comhairle Michael Kitt could do it himself.
THEN, with TDs about pack up and go home for the night night anyway, Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin pointed out:
The house is due to adjourn in eight minutes. So a motion to adjourn, which will take more than eight minutes to do – it’s farcical.
It didn’t help, with TDs continuing to bicker about how they should adjourn, and Michael Kitt being pulled and dragged in every direction.
You can read the transcript here.
And if you have the patience, or you’re a fan of surrealist theatre, watch for yourself:
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Vincent’s?
Better hope that there’s no need for these women to take contraception pills as part of the trial or the board might object to this treatment.
After all Vincent’s previously denied a cancer treatment drug because it would have also required women to take the pill at the same time, allowing women to take the pill was against the hospitals catholic ethos so they denied the drug.
Yes this did actually happen!
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/three-who-stopped-the-cancer-tests-25960150.html
“The three members of the board of Dublin’s Mater Hospital were key to the decision to stop trials of the drug for lung cancer patients.
They objected because female patients who get could get pregnant would have to take contraceptives under the treatment.
The subcommittee of the board – Fr Kevin Doran, Sr Eugene Nolan (Nun) and John Morgan – were delegated the task of examining the conditions attached to testing the drug.
They looked to see if the conditions contravened the hospital’s Catholic ethos.
The drug to be tested may prolong the lives of lung cancer patients by several months.”
The sooner we get religious dogma out of our health and education system the better.
I heard only last week that they still have nuns on the board of Vincents?
@Roibeard O Beachain: Amazing there’s no priests but they make up for that with the 2x nuns
http://www.svhg.ie/Board_of_Directors/Current_List_of_Board_Members.html
@Barry, Thanks for highlighting this. Priests and nuns have no business making critical healthcare decisions particularly when there is such a conflict of interest.
Im guessing its also a case that Vincents wont perform an abortion, if it is required to save a mother’s life?
I dunno how popular this opinion is but personally I think we should amend the constitution requiring hospitals and schools to be religiously neutral.
All of us remember full well the “ethos” of the school made no damn difference, the states footing the entire bill for most schools and a huge chunk of the bill for the fee paying schools ANYWAY. But clearly it makes a difference in hospitals
No matter how much some do t want it to happen we’re entering a globalised world and in the next few years we’re gonna have a hoarde of muslims demanding their own separate state funded hospitals and schools, we can solve the entire thing by saying “leave the religion to church the states only job in religion is to protect your right to express it – not to fund or endorse it”
It’s actually already in there “the state guarantees not to endow any religion ” but we do!
@Barry Somers: bang on the button barry there needs to be a separation of the church from medical advances in this state.what right have they got to interfere with how we treat our bodies
good news
I wouldn’t be flipant about the levels o cancer care we get in our hospitals, as a sufferer I am very grateful for the treatment we receive and trust the medical teams to administer the safest and best result.
@Chris Kirk: I’m not being flipant at all, very far from it, I’m be very serious.
Any treatment that can prolong a cancer victims life shouldn’t be denied just because it goes against what the catholic church see’s as right.
I only want the best care to people with cancer and I don’t want religious dogma to impact that care or ability to provide that care. I have much respect for doctors that have to work around such backward restrictions.
@Chris, I think the point Barry is making is that you could be denied access to a potentially effective cancer drug ( on religious grounds) even if you dont hold those beliefs
@Barry Somers: I that case I apologise, however I don’t see how religion plays into it at all, I am not a Catholic but expect and trust that I will get the same treatment in hospitals as everyone else. The Medical teams, consultants, doctors and nurses I have been involved with in the Mater Hospital are doing an excellent job in my view and religion has nothing to do with it..
Chris the hospital is state funded not owned so the church people on the board claim to be the bosses or amount then even though they neither find nor manage it nor have to answer to the minister who in turn answers to the Dail and public…so no accountability I think they claim they can veto procedures and treatments
That’s unacceptable
@Ryan Carroll: I will have to take your word for it, I don’t know anyone on hospital management boards. I would have thought that procedural treatment has to be in accordance with the law of the land rather thaan what church people have to offer.
Do the people who take part in these trials get a guarantee that if the drugs are successful and go onto the market, they get them for free or at least for a fraction of the price? Afterall, if it wasn’t for their participation in the trials the drugs would go nowhere. I think it’s shameful that people who are improving during the trial face the prospect of having to pay thousands to continue treatment. Anyone know if participants get to stay on the treatment drugs?
What are you talking about? No public patient pays for chemotherapy be it a trial or a typical protocol.
My husband took part in a trail for his chemotherapy, he still got a bill of €75 per day for each day he was in for treatment. He wasn’t on any oral chemotherapy drugs so not sure if cost of those is covered.
Payment for oral cancer drugs is the same as other prescribed medicines where there is a:
-Small charge for each item when a person has a medical card
-Maximum monthly charge of 144 with no medical card. Source: HSE.ie So not so free afterall. Granted not the full price either because the tax payer foots that bill!
And while the government is in debate about how much they can/want to pay for new treatment drugs or refuse to fund them and the National Centre for Pharmacoeconomics do not approve funding for life-changing therapy (thinking cystic fibrosis and Alpha 1 here) do those patients including ones that participated in the trial have access to those drugs at no cost?
I personally think patients/ sufferers who partake in trials that help bring drug treatments to the wider public should have continued free access to those drugs. Is that too much to ask? Free meaning the to payer does not have to pay for it either! Now, like I said, if anyone knows that answer please tell.
@Michelle: Didn’t see you comment because i started my response before you posted but got interrupted. That’s shocking and that’s what shouldn’t be allowed.
Those daily charges need to go they are inexcusable
@Missyb211 It is shocking, he got the medical card after a battle but yes its hard enough to deal with the shock of the diagnosis & then the treatment without the financial worry too. He had a lot of prescriptions for cream, antibiotics to pay before he got the medical card. I was under the illusion that all cancer care is covered for the patient but it is not.
@Michelle: Then you will know Michelle that the 75 euro bill was a standard charge applied in a Day Care ward and had nothing to do with the free chemotherapy treatment your husband received.
@Missyb211: You are right with the 144 euros prescription charge however this is part of subsidised Drug Payments Scheme provided by the HSE. I have been paying this out since last September and wil probably continue well into the new year. On top of that last week I had to pay for a new injection drug costing 132.94 to boost my immune system which I was told was a new drug. I am not complaining though, we get excellent health care service in this country which is well worth paying for in my honest opinion. Where would we be without it.
@Chris Yes I do as was the €75 per day for his 35 radiation treatments.
@Michelle: All public hospitals charge standard for Day Care services regardless of treatment which comes free.
@Chris Kirk: 144 euro might be a fraction of the full cost but still, it’s alot when it’s extended over a long period of time and especially when additional costs are added, like other meds. That 144 should be at least reduced for people battling serious illnesses. I read a document from the cancer society that listed the many additional cost and they’re eye watering. I wish you all the best in your treatment!
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