Probably the same postcode as the local court house.

@joe, Thanks for clearing that up Joe. A more difinitive postal address is obviously indiscriminate so.

@Brian, I think you might find it impossible to pick up your mail at your local Court House, Postcode or no Postcode !

I think the OP’s point was this new system doesn’t lend itself to the travelling community. On the other hand, an area based postcode would. And as seen from the UK, if you can’t provide a postcode with your address (where it’s now a required field in 95% of forms), well… good luck.

Take it easy on the travellers guys their not the only ones in this fair land of ours that might have a problem with the new post code system. What about our frequent flyers !!!! Get the message.

Not very nice!

Maybe not nice but true, when a govement can save 6 million with people flying in to collect their benefits every system that can prevent that I’m all for it Nothing personal

What about post office boxes? D ont need to have concrete foundations for one of those, and I’m sure the post office will have its own unique code.

I live in Denmark, we have a public database here….no problems there. I can check if the property is build on contaminated site, building restrictions, type of loan. Works great!!

I live in Ireland. You can check the land registry. But you won’t get the name of the person who lives at that address.

This new system will just give those addresses a postcode. Why are people assuming that it will also give names of people who live there? That’s not what a postcode is.

This is not really a postcode. It’s a coding system for unique addresses, which is linked to the names of the owners/occupants.

Yes you will! It’s called the voters register!! Not a 100% correct but not far off it and everyone is entitled to see it!

Why is it being made so specific, that’s a mad number of unique identifiers?

…sorry I meant GPS not “God”. Bloody predictive text. ….. mind you. …God would work too !

It’s not the use of postcodes that is causing concern, rather the misuse and as we all know, misuse is the name of the game in Ireland

God will show us the way, who needs gps

In Dublin it is relatively easy for emergency services to find someone (everyone has a house number), however in the countryside, most addresses are just the townland, which can cover a huge area and even several different roads. These are all usually not signposted. I have tried to find clients in the countryside and it has been a complete and utter nightmare. We are in the right area, but might be nowhere near the house.

James, if you think this is a waste of money, you’ve obviously never worked in logistics. This will save millions for courier companies alone, not to mention Utilities companies, Taxi firms and emergency services. It’s shocking that Ireland has gone this long without a post code system.

I was going to write a very angry reply then realised it wasn’t me you were on about.

@John

GPS works very well in the UK because they can enter the postcode in the Satnav and the Satnav can determine the coordinates from the postcode and then using GPS, direct the services to the EXACT location.

GPS on its own is useless unless you can ring up the emergency services and give the coordinates to where you are right now.

A lot of rural addresses cannot be found by Satnav’s. Some addresses in Ireland can have multiple spellings – the local spelling and OSi’s.

A postcode system would correct all of this.

http://m.slashdot.org/story/94097
Just one example of GPS working at it’s best in the UK. There is also the one that directs people into a river and the of course when it sends you off the motorway enroute to holyhead and then straight back on to it.

But people don’t know their GPS position. I think they are presuming that everyone should know their postcode.

That’s a sat nav problem, not a GPS problem.

Shows how much you know about the use of post codes,any time im traveling in the UK they are indispensable for saving time and money not to mention their use in case of emergencys where the time factor can be a matter of life and death.

Would help greatly in Dublin, two houses addressed the same on one road they have “names” to tell them apart but revenue and others do not reconsider the “name”created

Even in Dublin it’s tricky. I watched an ambulance driving up and down the road outside our office building one morning and going in and out of the estate opposite for over half an hour turning and turning before it eventually took off down the road and didn’t return (hopefully because they eventually found the location of the patient!!). Not all estates are named or numbered and even in Dublin very few streets are adequately signed.
I can only hope that the ambulance in this case wasn’t going to anything critical. For sure it was way outside of an 8 minute response time.

Please note….rural,ignored as usual, no street nor number here.
We do expect the same data protection as is stringently maintained in other countries and throughout Europe.
We do need a postcode as there are no bus services at all and for elderly and disabled in particular the net has been a useful tool for shopping amongst other services, we are not sure if this group will maintain services as extra costs to be imposed and this avenue will be closed.
The internet providers are often deeply suspicious and/or refuse to provide goods often, apparently we are not the norm (surprise!) and a postcode is the accepted practice.
Personal information and identification should not be freely available to the public. This is completely unacceptable and offers yet more uninvited unwanted invasion of people that value a dying privilege of privacy and, hopefully safety.

Do you work with UAVs, John?

John really means latitude and longitude, a reference systems that’s been used successfully for hundreds of years.
Accuracy isn’t a concern as to be more accurate you just use more decimal places I.e. Ireland is at 56N6E but my current location is 53.38562N6.43676E

But is there a need to be so specific? Could we not adopt any of the perfectly fine systems already being used elsewhere? In fairness, if the government can’t stop welfare frauds through PPS numbers, I can’t see them fairing any better here.

I think there may be a security concern with using Lat/Long (: Probably the reason the UK don’t use a system that has geographical correspondence. Point about arbitrary resolution of the co-ordinate system is a good one but is limited by capability to measure, which is typically GPS. This may be augmented by Wi-Fi, Cell, fixed-beacon information but you could not expect this kind of information to be available in non-urban areas .. and in urban areas the benefits of greater resolution are offset by higher population density. Other technologies for determining location such as compass, astrolabe, theodolite, may be considered cumbersome for day to day use :)

Living in the country with someone working for a courier service this has never been a problem, neither for an ambulance to reach us nor for a delivery to be made.
Local knowledge prevails and that’s what’s going to be taken away and centralised, too.

I think the point is this.

OK that comment was a work of genius until the parser removed the second, third and fourth paragraphs. Wall of text next time.

Using http://www.myloc8ion.com post codes for years now and they are bloody brilliant. Stick it into the Satnav and you are brought directly to the front door. I have no issue with post codes especially not if myloc8ion.com was administering it. Shame the gov has to fork out money now to a english company when a Irish company has already developed it.

Paul, that company own the the loc8 codes and companies using them would have to buy a licence. this would include, An Post etc

I have an example. A potential burglar gets wind of your new iPad or flat screen TV. However he doesn’t know where you live exactly – but not to worry as help is at hand with the new postcode database which tells him exactly which house you live in! Sure burglars have to make a living too, and this will be of great help to them poor fellas!

I think a burglar would have a harder time finding a house without a flat screen tv or smartphone these days in fairness.,

Yes point taken so substitute some other valuable instead – but you and D Flo have both completely missed my point. i.e. The importance of privacy and anonymity of one’s specific dwelling.

Eh no Paul. The postcode doesn’t contain names. So, eh no the burglar can’t. But it’s not your fault the data protection commission has created such a public hysteria with his misunderstanding of all things postcode that opinions like yours are ubiquitous .

Fiona. My reference to the ‘eh’ burglar was more tongue in cheek! Please see my response (to another Paul and also Páid) below regarding privacy and liberty. Regards.

But you are still missing the point Paul that postcodes present no more of a threat to privacy that full addresses with building numbers and coordinates – that have existed in all locations bar rural since 2000. So what extra threat do you wrongly believe that postcodes will introduce to your privacy ideal ??? Please educate me.

Apologies, Albania has introduced postal codes in recent year. For complete national listing, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_postal_codes

This is not as much of a concern in other countries because postcodes only identify a group of houses e.g. a whole housing-estate or entire town.

The concern here is that the personalised 7-digit code (like a phone number) could be used to tag crime and health statistics against a specific home, in a way simply cannot be done by private companies at present because full postal addresses (or names) are sufficiently obtuse. The result could be that you’re refused house insurance / health insurance because companies have shared what they know about your health / break-ins history. It will literally allow private companies to pick and choose who they offer services to, on a house-by-house basis. And it doesn’t just end with health or house insurance. You could move into a new house and have terrible trouble getting Gas/Electricity installed because the person who last lived there was terrible at paying the bills.

Given that big data and the power of data analytics has increasingly been coming to the fore as a scientific way of allowing companies to make more precise and more profitable decisions about customers, its pretty unforgiveable that the Dept of Communications has so far turned a blind-eye to civil rights aspect of this “personalised postcode system”. The fact is that the Dept has no idea what kind of insidious ways unscrupulous companies will harness data analytics and personalised postcodes to harass/screw the home-dweller.

I’d lay money on somebody mounting a constitutional challenge to this postcode plan before its rolled out.

I do apologise for my poor grammar – I should never have learnt to touch-type!

But would you not have that with any postcode system?

To use your example of the previous resident in the house being terrible at paying the bills. Does it matter if the address was 123 High Street Postcode, ABC1 or just Postcode ABC1XYZ. The utilities company could get that data regardless.

The difference between the 2 of these options for people living in rural areas is that there is no house number or street name in rural areas, so having a postcode that just covers an area in rural communities would be pointless as it would be the same as having an existing townland name.

I take your point, but no; you would not necessarily have this with any postcode system. Here’s why:

Your suggestion (ABC + 123 High Street) still requires two variables (postcode locality and house address) in order to identify a house-dweller. The latter (the house address) is of varying length (depending on the house’s name, estate name etc), making it more complex for a computer database to slice and dice. In addition, your suggestion does not necessarily identify the fact that there may be several different postboxes at 123 High Street e.g. 123A, 123B etc. (since the postcode is not home specific, only locality specific).

The problem is that the analysis of big data works on the principle of being able to simplify large amounts of information, in order to establish trends which are based on the greatest possible degree of certainty. It is this principle that allows the analysis done on “big data” to be so powerful and attractive to companies.

By giving a personalised code to each letterbox in the State, the proposed Irish system would allow an unprecedented level of mapping to be done against a single family – essentially amounting to a publically available register of akin to national ID card numbers. Unscrupulous companies could then use this new 7-digit identifier to track and trace people (from home to home, if necessary) and in so doing build up a very specific picture of any private aspects of their lives. This is the concern of the regulator; the fact that these new postcodes will completely remove any possible uncertainty about who YOU are (your health, flooding history, break-in record etc etc etc) going forward. Bit scary, right?

The point you are blatantly missing here is that this uncertainty you speak of hasn’t existed in urban Ireland for fifteen years. The An Post/OS national address database, the Geodirectory, already provides a definitive address and coordinates for every unique urban address, so everything the big bad marketing companies could do with postcodes has been possible for 67% of irish addresses since 2000. If you live at 4 the rise, baldoyle d13, I can already link all data held on you in multiple databases, segment you based on your neighbourhood, check if you are located in a flood zone etc. as several posters have already noted, all a postcode adds in an abbreviated form of this. The only real effect of post-codes in this regard, is to extend this capability to rural areas. We would achieve the same effect by giving rural addresses building numbers. My biggest surprise, to be honest, is that the data protection commissioner, doesn’t know this. It reveals an unbelievable lack of knowledge about addressing and data mining which I would have expected the office to possess.

just give em a call, show them you’re the new tenant/owner, and this high tech “big data” gets updated quickly and cascades through the system – job done.

Most countries in Africa don’t have postcodes – in addition, they don’t have delivery to street addresses either, it goes to a PO Box number.

Well you computer has an ip address which is pretty specific, and your bank account has a number which is pretty specific, and your mobile can be triangulated whilst its on (or indeed has probably got GPS switched on right now), so I’d say if privacy comes down to a postcode, well… No more than there are ways of getting around the examples here, there are probably ways of getting around the postcode too, if you apply yourself (eg get a tent).

if you’ve nothing to hide, you’ve nothing to be concerned about. You want to be a consumer in this world of ours, then you’ve no right to absolute anonymity. Otherwise go get yourself an allotment and a camper van. The sooner these unique eircodes are implemented the better!

Whether I or any other person has anything to hide or not is not the issue Paul. Yes I am a consumer. If I walk in to a store and purchase a product or service, I am in control of what information I give to that person at the other side of the counter about myself. The same applies electronically. I CONTROL what information about myself I am willing to give away. For example – if i want to read about a certain topic online without my IP address being tracked by google or whoever (to spam me with ads like they do) then I CAN CHOOSE to turn on my VPN software to hide my location.

However – When an entity such as a Govermnment or a Corporation says that they are going to take my personal and SPECIFIC information AGAINST MY WILL such as my SPECIFIC dwelling location (& all that goes with it) – or track my living habits through the 2014/15 Proposed Electricty Smart Meters in order to curtail my usage or tax/levy me for that (Yes, that’s what is planned!) – then this is a clear assault on personal liberty and privacy. I value my liberty and I value my privacy – because once we allow it to be taken, then it is gone forever. For the record, I am not against postcodes per se – Just the invasive type that is being proposed here!

@Padriag: Bunkum/? You’re missing the point entirely – I wasn’t explicitly saying that it was the SAME as a national ID card, what I was saying was that IN ESSENCE it amounts to that. And it does; this new personalised postcode system will allow a company to identify you to an astonishing level of detail and type shocking amount of information to a family e.g. web-browsing history; credit-card usage; purchasing power; health; criminal record etc etc etc. The list is endless, and you’re splitting hairs.

it’s perfectly possible to do all this already using an address and one of those new fangled computer yokes. You are worried about introducing a scenario that already exists.
The only way to avoid your doomsday scenario is for no one to publish any data about themselves – that horse has bolted

“One of those new fangled computer yokes” ?

Yup. Amazing they are.

That aside, have you considered my point? What, apart from making the already happening slightly easier (after some initial extra work), is the big problem?

Have a look at my response to @Joe Brennan above – if that doesn’t clarify your question then let me know.

Yeah read it. Don’t know what database system you work on, but I if you think a postcode is “more complex for a computer database to slice and dice” I suggest you upgrade it sharpish

Its not about the complexity database – its about the statistical analysis that can be done on it, with the aid of a handy 7-digit code to represent each and every family.

Well in fairness you used that as an example when discussing traditional 2 part post codes v single ref code, so you must think its is a factor.
you don’t seem to understand the technical side of your own point which does weaken it somewhat. But if say you did read an article on it once, and round here that pretty much makes you an expert.

This may sound like a stupid question, but here I go anyhow regarding the “ambulance” reasoning.

Let’s say I live in County Galway in Postcode area WHY 999.
Let’s say I am travelling to visit friends in Roscommon.
Let’s also say I am having an accident somewhere outside Athleague.
Let’s assume I am not familiar with the locality and don’t know what townland is near.
Exactly how do I point the ambulance dispatcher to the correct location when we are relying on property/post codes only instead of local knowledge or directions?
15th Lamppost from the last pub?

Dead right:
http://www.capita.co.uk/

These guys must be a charity or something so are they?

http://www.loc8code.com is an Irish Company which was developed using Enterprise Ireland grants, who employs residents in Ireland, pays taxes here in Ireland, creates industry here in Ireland and is subject to laws here in Ireland.

Their Product is already used by emergency services throughout the Island of Ireland as well as Garmin Satnav.

Their capabilities exceed that of any postal code in existance and FAR exceed that provided by capita.

And whats more the system is ready to use NOW! There’s no requirement for consultaion fees. There is no requirement for development fees. It was even offered to the Irish Minsister for Communications to use for FREE!!!

Its an SME that has been created from the ground up by Irish talent in an Irish town that is trying to create more jobs for Irish people.

The irony is that in the week that the government has said that they want to help SME’s they show that they’re more interested in pushing millions of our taxes abroad.

Sher it only makes sense that we export the task