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CONCERNS HAVE BEEN raised after new figures reveal that the numbers serving in the permanent Defence Forces has fallen below 9,000.
Figures released to Fianna Fáil TD Jack Chambers show that, as of 30 September, permanent Defence Forces numbers dropped to 8,989. This compared to 9,219 a year ago.
Breaking the number down, a total of 7,247 personnel were in the Army, 720 were in the Air Corps and 1,022 were in the Naval Service.
The Department of Defence noted that the final figures enlisted in 2018 will not be available until after the year’s end.
As of 25 September, 414 personnel have been inducted in 2018 and inductions will continue for the rest of the year.
The government has committed to maintaining a strength level of 9,500 personnel across the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps.
“Under Fine Gael, the Defence Forces is continuing to move further away from its approved establishment strength of 9,500,” Chambers said.
He said that the latest figures are “clear and incontrovertible” evidence of the “retention crisis” that the Defence Forces faces.
In a response to Chambers, Taoiseach and Minister for Defence Leo Varadkar said that in order to achieve the 9,500 personnel target there are “significant recruitment opportunities available”.
Recruits from the first general service recruitment campaign held earlier this year are being inducted between September and end November. The 95th Cadet Class of 85 personnel was inducted on 24 September.
A second general service recruitment campaign was launched on 10 September and
closed on 7 October.
Pay and conditions
At its annual conference last year PDFORRA, which represents members of the Defence Forces, said poor pay and conditions are pushing people out of the job and discouraging new recruits from joining.
“Morale within the Forces is extremely low, and has not been helped by the decision by the Defence Minister not to make a recommendation to the Public Sector Pay Commission to increase pay levels,” Chambers said.
“This is a source of deep frustration and anger,” he said.
“Perhaps the breaching of the 9,000 threshold will end the government’s denial on the issue and act as a catalyst for action to end this retention crisis.”
With reporting by Órla Ryan
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Waiting for the “shur what do we need em for” comments. Most likely comments from individuals who were never inside the gate of a barracks, understand their role, what unseen in publicised work they do nor probably even know anyone who serves or served…
@Thomas Meaney: not saying we don’t need them, but their function in Ireland isn’t imperative. Serious innovation needs to occur, for example the idea that they assist police or work during national emergencies ie the storms and snow we have of late to alleviate disruption/ damage
I welcome any criticism of my comment
@Thomas Meaney: ‘shur what do we need em for?’ No, seriously? As currently constituted, the defence forces couldn’t defend their own barracks. A single airplane could destroy every single installation in a couple of days. They aren’t trained to fight guerilla war either. Other than rescue and fisheries work, they’re as much use as tits on a bull
@Hellenize Dublin: “work during national emergencies ie the storms and snow we have of late”
That is exactly what they do already. Very important work that is largely unrecognised.
@Paul Devlin: Can I just ask do you have any connection to the DF or is your infotmation assumed.
@Paul Devlin: we should be protecting the guerrillas not sending our army out to kill them
@Paul Devlin: !00% correct
@Hellenize Dublin: I think the army should replace the Gardai outside government buildings ,driving ministers ,and outside ministers private houses. I have no idea how many Gardai that would free up.The soldiers seem to be much fitter as well.
@Thomas Meaney: We need to be protecting our ports and airpert security. but what’s the use. the government don’t care who they let in.
@Thomas Meaney: every nation needs an army. They don’t need another role. However if there was one of suggest…
Gendarmarie.
@Thomas Meaney: Is your contribution what might be called a pre-emptive strike?
@Paul Devlin: This is called Aid to the Civil Power, an integral part of what the Defence Forces actually do and have done for a very long time now.
@Paul Devlin: And you know all this because? …..
The biggest issue facing the Defense Force is the incompetence of Paul Keohoe the lad has very little going on upstairs .
@JesusMoreBullshit: A useful mudguard for Leo
@Chemical Brothers: I love it so true .
@Chemical Brothers: The blueshirt can’t speak without reading from a sheet.
@Sean Conway: And who would write the sheet for the Ffrs
What do you expect, atrocious pay scales, a bit worse than newly graduated nurses, not as bad as those in the Irish navy, yet some retired government ministers have take home pensions of €3500 a week, Brian Cowen and Marie Geoghegan Quinn included.
@Charles Coughlan: army, navy and air Corp are on the same basic pay scales generally, allowances do vary but I think the navy recruits get more than the army into the hand due to an allowance for when they are at sea
As a veteran of the US forces, I’ve never been impressed given the genuine lack of value associated with the men and women of the Irish forces. They endure low pay, sub-standard housing and a general lack of benefits. They are not just ordinary employees of the State, like the Gardai they put their lives on the line with long deployments in hostile regions around the world. Promotions only come when there are “empty boots” to fill. It is time to put the Forces on proper pay and housing – retention and applicants will be sure to rise.
Reduce the numbers and use the savings to increase the pay.
@Patrick Nolan: stupid idea how about increasing the wages and increase the numbers to ensure we can meet our international commitments along with protection of our country. We need a defense force as the world becomes a more dangerous place .
@JesusMoreBullshit:
Ditch the international commitments.
@JesusMoreBullshit: can’t we increase their pay and use them as police.
Maintain the navy
@Patrick Nolan: are you for real ditch out international commitments? Imagine if Ireland was in a situation where it was basically in ruins and some dictator was killing its people wouldn’t you hope someone would step in to help from international community as one example.
@dublincomments: we need a modern defense force comprising of a modern navy , air corps and army . We need to up our spend urgently .
@JesusMoreBullshit:
We may have the US and UK mindset for a low tax and low social security economy but we don’t have their militaristic outlook.
There is no chance of Irish people voting for a party that promotes an increase in military spending.
@JesusMoreBullshit: if Ireland was in a situation where it was basically in ruins and some dictator was killing its people, the international community would step in regardless. The UN and Amnesty International are incapable of interfering in international affairs. So I’d say we’ll be safe enough
@dublincomments: Jesus, we don’t need an army policing our country. What sort of dictatorship do you want there?
@Patrick Nolan: Really? The Irish formed large parts of the British Army & Royal Navy. There were once many famous Irish regiments, disbanded upon independence, and a report from 2008 cited 16 per cent of all those enlisting in the British Army in Northern Ireland were from south of the border.
@Patrick Nolan: I would. We ate an independent republic allegedly, but rely on the RAF to defend our air space.
@Bernard: 16% of what?
@JesusMoreBullshit: The half a billion wasted on water metres would have gone a long way towards wages and equipment.
@Bernard:
Firstly you are right, thousands of Irish joined foreign armies before Independence…. Almost 100 years ago!
As regards the 2008 report, NI has a population of 1.8m almost half of which wouldn’t dream of joining the British army so recruitment would be from a population of about 1m. I don’t know how many joined but we are not talking of tens of thousands so a 1 in 6 from down south could be a very small number, especially taking against a southern population of 4.8m.
@Teresa Ryan:
Maybe it’s because it’s so long since there was a war on this island(most of it anyway)but I simply don’t believe there is a public want for more military spending. I agree the wages are crap (seen a payslip once) so I genuinely believe their best option would be to ring fence their budget, allow numbers to drop, to pay the remaining better but also reduce their overall workload/commitments.
Your country needs you;. You too can sleep under a sheet in Phoenix Park to protect the pope while your Garda colleagues earn 4x
@Alan Walter Gallagher: ask mall the developers and politicians who are ok 200k a year from the state to join the army
@Wild Irish Poet: Why should they if they’re already in a successful position? Theyre likely to have worked tk get where they are..even if i dont agree with them a lot of the time. Sure I’m slightly jealous of the money they might have (who wouldn’t be) but ultimately they’ve succeeded in life already by some people’s standards. Anyway, if theyre on €200000 a year they’ll be paying 40% tax on that…suppose I should thank them for contributing so much to the welfare state. More power to them…
It should also be noted that this part of a global in first world countries, for example the UK for is having huge problems retaining members of forces. And probably what is likely to happen is that immigrants will fill gaps, as what is happening in the US. I am not trying to downplay the needs of the members of our forces they do a tremendous job for way below what they are worth and should be taken seriously!
Because your better off on the dole money wise
they should employ more women, they’re cheaper, work for 76 cent on the dollar
@Dave Dublin: and 88 cent for a dollar – massive savings. Pay them in dollars!
Brexit occurs at the end of March. Potentially we will need the defences forces at their full strength with all reserves upon Brexit in case of an outbreak of violence, to back up the Garda who are also stretched beyond breaking point.
There are members of the defence forces sleeping in cars. They are being treated like dirt. Cutting the defence forces when facing such a potential threat due to Brexit, is in effect, planning to create a catastrophe.
There is no need for them a waste of money it would be better spending the money they cost on the health service
@Michael Maher: What is spent on defence annually wouldn’t keep an average A&E unit in floor cleaner.
@Seamus ó Corcoráin:
So it costs just under €900,000,000.00 to keep an average A&E in floor cleaner.
Think I’m in the wrong business.
@Michael Maher: Utter nonsense, we could throw another hundred billion at the health service and it would still be a disgrace. Also we do need the Armed forces.
@Michael Maher: you could throw another 10 billion into the HSE and the outcomes wouldn’t improve one jot.
@Mark McDermott: Armed forces needed for what?
@Teresa Ryan:
On that at least we can agree
I’ve been censored by the journal.ie stasi unit…would love to know exactly Why?
@Alan Walter Gallagher: wrong think!
@Martin: It’s mad, my comment had over 170 “likes” along with a series of decent comments by others of debate. The one that’s left now looks silly as it doesn’t make sense – additionally it’s garnished extra likes which makes me wonder is there a journal.ie-bot at play and exactly why does this media outlet feel the need to censor comments to meet an agenda which its not sharing with the public?
Irish army= joke…
@Neil Farrell: The defence forces are not a joke when they are needed and always perform their duty.
@Neil Farrell: =bigger joke
@Neil Farrell: fail the medical did you ??
Going out twice a year for some storm and once in a decade for a snow is not really a show of some need to maintain these “jobs”.
Our Defence Forces – Army, Navy, Aer Corps, Coast Guard and Gardaí may be comparatively short on numbers but all are very necessary for defence of Ireland’s various interests in whatever emergency.
The elite members of our Defence forces are trained by USA, UK and other countries elite forces but are poorly paid in comparison while all put their lives on the line in execution of their duties to us of the citizenry.
It’s disgraceful that all officially employed by in our State’s Defence Forces are so poorly paid… I mean, why would army spouses be shouting their heads off that they can’t feed their families on the wages their other half are paid… going to food banks and charity shops supposed to be reserved for our destitute people?
Shure what if our Defence Forces are short of official numbers? If there’s ever a very real emergency, there are at least 500,000 GAA members, loads more of Irish Soccer, Rugby and other club’s members and fans, unknown numbers of St John of God Ambulance, RNLI, Mountain Rescue Services, Civil Defence and Reserve Forces’ members – who will step up to the plate for Ireland and the safety of its people when and if called upon.
There is a far bigger “army” in Ireland that quietly goes un-noticed.
@Canny Jem: the majority of which lack training and discipline, some would barely know one end of the gun to the other where as others would think it’s like call of duty.
This is good news – very good news.
@Bramley Hawthorne: how?
Swap the uniform, reduce the army and restrain as gardai. We are paying them anyways.
have your say