It’s been a unmitigated disaster.. Irish water has been borrowing money from banks at a far higher rate than the government would been . heads should roll.

BOOOOM!! http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-water-must-stay-on-state-balance-sheet-eu-says-1.2299128

Ouch! Looks like the games up on the fast one that the govenment tried to play.

Guess eurostat saw the ‘conservation grant’ for what it was, a bribe and state intervention in financing a private company. Long may the negative headlines about this disaster continue, right up to the election.

What’s €500 million anyway? We give away €650 million in foreign aid each year. Cancel the foreign aid and we’re €150 million richer. Problem sorted.

We are close to a significant victory here. Hundreds of thousands of ordinary working class people have stood firm against the continued looting of the country for the benefit of the capitalist and political elite.

Irish Water has been established as another mechanism through which the citizens are to be fleeced to pay for the systemic failure of speculative financial capitalism in 2008.

This is why our Troika ‘partners’ made it a condition of the bailout (stitch up) agreed with the FF/Green government in 2010. The IMF & ECB could not care less about maintaining and upgrading our water network and conservation which is the fairytale justification for the charges peddled endlessly by establishment. We could be all drinking slurry as far as Mario Draghi is concerned. What Mario is interested in though is the €1.2 billion + that the Irish citizens currently pay annually to run the water and sewerage systems.

If the water charges are successfully enforced, then this €1.2 billion annual revenue stream can instead be diverted to meet the repayments on Ireland’s ‘bailout’ loans (plus interest) used to directly cover private and illegitimate banking debt. In this way the EU & IMF gets to have the Eurozone banking system stabilized at the expense of the Irish people and we get to pay for the privilege through Water charges, Home tax, USC, vicious health, education and social support cutbacks, Pension levy and the extra 3 years added to our working lives etc etc etc.

It’s an ingenious neoliberal Catch 22 and we are the intended chumps. It’s time for the people to stand up now and refuse to allow the ransacking of the country to continue. Boycott the Water charge. Can’t pay. Won’t pay.
https://www.facebook.com/WeWontPayTheWaterCharges

Well said Coddler. If Irish Water goes down, everything changes.

End a’ Kenny, I’d say

On the up side, Irish teachers get to find out what it’s like to chance their arm handing in shoddy homework…..scarlet for ‘em.
The question now is….will they be sent to the back of the class or made to sit at the front and pay attention?

@littleone …. any robbing our Pension Reserves as well …… never forget that!

Heads role little one; are you kidding? but bonuses will be paid. Now those assuming that IW will fail are going on the assumption that Eurostat will be made of of honest folk, how likely is that?

Noonan on the 1oc news: “irish water customers have received their bills and KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS”. There’s the admission right there that prices will increase, most likely via a private owner if all had gone according to plan for this most incompetent of governments. And that’s saying a lot given the corrupt and incompetent governments we’ve had in the past.

TAKE THAT, BRING ON ROUND 2 https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=5sy1VdyZFajQ7Ab31JH4CQ#q=picture+of+rocky&imgrc=0UtApugsJ1FfkM%3A

Maireben, fado, fado our Pension Reserve Fund stood at in excess of Twenty One Billion Euro. I believe that there is point four of a billion left. Under this magnificent stewardship we should all be on the pig’s back in no time at all.

Can we get a refund from Irish Water’s consultants Accenture ?

Property tax has gone towards setting up Irish Water…..

What about his cronies getting jobs there, all we could hear from them during the last general election was shite about them putting a stop to it,lying fu**kers

Delighted serves this government right. The greatest shower of gobeens ever to run this country. Alan Kelly should resign.

Alan Kelly is an absolute pig.

WELL WRITTEN CODDLER ROONEY – PLEASE EVERYBODY READ HIS ARTICLE AND SUPPORT. WE ARE BEING MADE IDIOTS OF. DO NOT PAY.

Hope Alan Kelly’s having a summer of sleepless nights.The dictator tactics wont work with the public.Bullyboy kicked back into his box!!

Great post Coddler !!!

The phrase ‘dead in the water’ springs to mind for this corrupt government, and it’s crony filled quango

Good to see all those protests have worked.And of course the best protest of all,non-payment for a bill already paid for.

Ff fg labour have wrecked our country what a disaster and what a waste of money.

Dave, we’re not done yet. The ‘Irish Waters Irish Wake’ protest is 29th August, 2pm.

Tell everyone you know, bring everyone you can!

Good ring to that ” Irish waters Irish wake “.
Apparently the state broadcaster Rte has already announced the crowd numbers for the August protest,their saying 3-4 thousand but could go up or down depending on their parties polling figures.

Fantastic news though.!
Eurostat are obviously a totally independent and impartial outfit, and have not succumbed to the political need of this government to cook the books, in order to facilitate a re-election budget.

Accenture! previously Arthur Anderson….brought down for “Cooking the Books” for Enron..A leopard can’t change its spots

No Sean…..the setup was so bad even they couldn’t get the square peg in the round hole without looking like chumps themselves……..I’d say they were completely stunned by the sheer incompetence of our pocket stuffing Ministers.

Got that one wrong. The Minister will challenge the Eurostat findings they got it wrong he knows these things. It’s time to stop this monster & take it back to the drawing board. It’s an embarrassing mess.

Thus is why ive asked for a recall of the Seanad. Itish Water had borrowed €850 million and has leave to borrow €2 Billion & now its all on the state. This craxy machine mudt stop & fast.

Absolute and utter lies being peddelled by peddler – sorry Coddler:

“In this way the EU & IMF gets to have the Eurozone banking system stabilized at the expense of the Irish people and we get to pay for the privilege through Water charges, Home tax, USC, vicious health, education and social support cutbacks, Pension levy and the extra 3 years added to our working lives etc etc etc.”

Again and again you have been provided with links to prove that you are simply wrong.

Again and again you have been told that:

“Ireland’s debt in 2006 stood at €43.7 billion and, at 25.1 per cent of gross domestic product or economic output, was then the second-lowest in the euro zone. By the end of this year, the debt is forecast to reach a little above €203 billion or 111 per cent of GDP. Large as that sum is, it is down from a level of €215.6 billion or 123.3 per cent of GDP at the end of 2013.”

“But as recovery gathers pace, the State is still saddled with the legacy of the crash in the form of an enormous national debt.
The figures are very big indeed. They point to a rise of some €160 billion in the totality of Ireland’s general government debt since 2006, the year before the banking credit crunch which heralded the global crisis. More than €64 billion went into the banks, and only a small portion has been clawed back.
The bulk of increased borrowing, however, was taken on to meet the costs of running the State day by day.”

Do you see that sentence above? That is why we have to pay Water charges, Home tax, USC, vicious health, education and social support cutbacks, Pension levy and work an 3 years .

Not for bank debt – but because we spend more than we take in, so we have to borrow and introduce the charges – you are beyond naive to think that even if IW fails – that so will the debt and somehow we will conjure up this money for the services that we want.

Get real. Seriously, people – get real.

It doesn’t matter who takes the reign – it really doesn’t matter.

It will all end up the same and that is that we will have to pay for what we want and what we need – not what we think we deserve.

Thanks for that Pat but I already pay for my water through taxes. Which bit of that do you not understand?

You’re welcome Kerry – and you will be paying more taxes in the future for your water and for everything else – which bit of that do YOU not understand.

What do you do when your ESB rates increase Kerry – refuse to pay them? What about your car insurance? What about your SKY? What about petrol Kerry – when it was rising did you fill your car and do a runner? Of course not – your taxes Kerry are not enough, they maintain but are not enough to provide fresh, clean drinkable water to your home, investment is needed, we need to borrow that money and you will pay – directly or not, you will pay.

So don’t come here moaning in a year or two when it dawns on you that this is not a victory – it is a loss, a substantial loss, the real outcome will take a while to permeate through to you – but it will!.

politically it would be better if ye got the f*** out and don’t come back. that goes for most of the opposition too just looking to get a piece of the pie. Vote Social Democrats and Independants if ye want any sort of change here. SF as a minority yes but a majority is too much of a risk. No more of this s***.

Follow the money Senator G, it’s going into someones pocket. Panicky people make mistakes.

Pat will you stop talking shite.

There would not be a problem if the ”Bums” had paid…..The ”BUMS” don’t want to pay for anything, ye are a disgrace, ye won’t pay so that the water infrastructure will be there for future generations.

BUMS AND LEECHING OFF OTHERS, YE MUST BE SO PROUD.

@patlyndo, when petrol cost rises, I’d get a more fuel efficient car, when ESB cost rises, I try and conserve energy. Likewise, if our debt has risen, we get a govt that doesn’t throw money down the frickin toilet at lissadel house and tax us more to pay their inflated pensions.
Raising taxes and privatising everything isn’t the only option obviously

Patlyndo,
Enough of your macro economic drivel please. It’s I that have had to explain many many times to you and your fellow travelers that:

Our total government debt was about €47 billion in 2007, the second lowest in the Eurozone standing at around 25% of GDP and we were running a budget surplus in the 5 previous years.

See here:
http://www.thejournal.ie/protester-block-fingal-councillors-1929626-Feb2015/
And here:
http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-debt-saving-1687175-Sep2014/

We have moved from this position to owing the monstrous sum of €215 billion in 2013. The main reason for this is that the true cost of the bank bailout is over €110 billion and most of it has been added to the national debt.

The National Pension Reserve Fund and general exchequer fund were raided for €17.5 billion and transferred to the European Financial Stability Facility & Mechanism (EFSF&M) funds. The EU then generously allowed us to borrow €67.5 billion from the EFSF&M which we are paying back with interest. €64 billion of this has been used directly cover private and illegitimate banking debt. In this way the EU gets to have the Eurozone banking system stabilized at the expense of the Irish people and we get to pay for the privilege via the interest we pay on the debt. This does not include the €32 billion also borrowed that we have pumped into NAMA to indirectly prop up the banks by taking the bad commercial property loans off their books. Adding the 3 figures together (17.5 + 64 +32) gives a total cost of around €113 billion and counting for the bank bailout so far. Most of this money has been borrowed and the interest payments make up a major component of our current annual budget deficits.

It should be also be understood that most countries run a budget deficit most of the time and it makes perfect macro economic sense to do so. A sovereign currency issuing state (e.g. U.K) can sustain ANY size of deficit or debt once it is denominated in the domestic currency. The “debt” and any interest is paid via simple keystrokes at the central bank.

It’s only the Eurozone countries that are required to borrow their own currency in the market at an interest rate determined by the market. Fiat currency issuing nations like the U.S and U.K do not need to obtain dollars and sterling from the bond markets to finance a budget deficit or indeed to cover private banking debt in the domestic currency. When they do choose to issue government bonds the primary objective is to implement monetary policy (e.g. drive their chosen base interest rate to target) not as a necessity to raise revenue. In addition, when those countries do ‘borrow’ in the market, they effectively decide what the yield/interest will be unlike the Eurozone nations subject to the tender mercy of the speculators.

In contrast, the Euro single currency was deliberately designed to allow speculative financial capitalism to profit massively from member state sovereign debt as monetary policy is now in the hands of the ECB who impose destructive neoliberal economics on the citizens with the assistance of member state puppet governments including our own FG/Labour quislings and FF before them.

The Austerity program imposed by the Troika and 2 successive governments achieved exactly what it was designed to do. That is to slash the social support structures like Health and Education and drive down the wages, working conditions and living standards of ordinary people to pay for the economic crisis caused by the capitalist elite. Privatization of our national infrastructure like the water network will follow soon as per the old IMF playbook if we allow it to happen.

To justify austerity, they peddle the economic fairy tale that nations need to ‘balance the books’. This is nonsense in a macro economic context. Most countries run a budget deficit most of the time and always have done. Vicious austerity is applied to the people of Ireland, Spain, Portugal and Greece while in contrast under the QE programs, the ECB has created €1.4 trillion in reserves by pressing keys on its shiny computer in Frankfurt and made it available at extremely low interest rates to the parasite banks whose greed and stupidity triggered the economic crisis in the first place. Austerity is only for the little people you see.

Coddler –

“Our total government debt was about €47 billion in 2007, the second lowest in the Eurozone standing at around 25% of GDP and we were running a budget surplus in the 5 previous years.
See here:”

It was a structural deficit:

“Structural and cyclical deficits are two components of deficit spending. These terms are especially applied to public sector spending which contributes to the budget balance of the overall economy of a country. Deficit spending, or simply deficit, is defined as over-spending: the amount by which spending exceeds revenue over a particular period of time. The total budget deficit, or headline deficit, is equal to the sum of the structural deficit and the cyclical deficit (or surplus/es).”

We were overspending, what part of that do you not get?

“We have moved from this position to owing the monstrous sum of €215 billion in 2013. The main reason for this is that the true cost of the bank bailout is over €110 billion and most of it has been added to the national debt.”

Half true. We went from 47 billion deficit to 215 billion – we borrowed 65 billion for the banks, the rest of the debt is due to borrowing to meet the overspend.

“This does not include the €32 billion also borrowed that we have pumped into NAMA to indirectly prop up the banks by taking the bad commercial property loans off their books. ”

SImply untrue – Here is the real facts from NAMAWINELAKE:

“NAMA initially funded itself by issuing €32bn of bonds to buy €74bn of loans from the banks. In addition, NAMA received investment of €51m from three “independent” institutions and it received a loan of €49m from the Department of Finance which it has since repaid. In NAMA’s case, its initial funding from all sources was €32.1bn.”

NAMA received a loan of 49 million, the 32 billion you keep bleating about was not borrowed, it was issued in NAMA bonds to the banks in return for the toxic loans. IT HAS REPAID THAT LOAN.

So the true cost of the bailout is 65 billion – you rightfully say our debt increased ot 215 billion – the biggest chunk of that was money borrowed to service the deficit and continue borrowing to pay PS pay, pensions, SW etc…..

You are peddelling lie after lie:

“Adding the 3 figures together (17.5 + 64 +32) gives a total cost of around €113 billion and counting for the bank bailout so far. ”

LIE. We didn’t borrow 17.5 billon, we didn’t borrow 32 billion, we borrowed 64 billion.

“Most of this money has been borrowed and the interest payments make up a major component of our current annual budget deficits”

LIE.

Most of the money was borrowed to cover the deficit and for day to day spending.

The interest payments for the bailout are about a 1/4 of the annual interest costs of the National Debt – we pay approximately 8 billion to service the national debt and approximately 2 billion is for the bailout.

Get real and stop peddelling your lies.

Ross, would you get the more fuel efficient car for nothing? ESB: You can conserve all you want – but you still pay for what you use.

Our debt has risen due to massive overspending in the years prior to the bust, you know, from all the SW increases, the pension increases, the PS pay increases – you know – throwing money at the problems instead of resolving them.

Thanks though, for a civil contribution. Rare in these parts I can tell you.

Patsy,
You truly are a deluded twit.

What exactly do you think the NAMA bonds are? Do you imagine that NAMA suddenly magicked €32 billion into existence?

The NAMA bonds are government guaranteed securities. It was Euro denominated money borrowed by an agency of the state which needs to be repaid with interest by the Irish State and so is ultimately paid from the resources of the Irish people.

Now to the most important part which I’ll try to explain to you again in very simple terms.

A sovereign currency issuing state (e.g. Britain) cannot “overspend” in a currency it creates at will. The deficit whether structural or otherwise is irrelevant. The national debt and interest due is paid via keystrokes at the central bank. You need to try and grasp this. Britain has NO need to borrow its own currency from ANYWHERE. It issues that currency at will. Britain can sustain ANY size of national debt or deficit once it is denominated in sterling.

The only reason that Ireland’s budget deficit matters is because we are trapped in a currency union where we have ceded control of our money. If Ireland had a sovereign floating currency then our budget deficit would be of NO concern. We could never run short of Punts for day to day spending to run the health, education etc systems for example or to upgrade our water network.

The bank bailout would not have broken the nation as it would have been paid in a currency we create at will. This is how Britain funded its bank bailout which was bigger than Irelands (proportional to GDP) and yet did not bankrupt the U.K. Did you ever stop and think about this?

A sovereign Ireland could always afford to pay its state pension and social welfare bill. It would never have to take medical cards from terminally ill people in order to “balance the books”. It would never be required to balance those books. Ireland could of course still face real resource constraints e.g. energy or skills shortages but would never face a financial shortfall. Is any of this sinking in Pat?

Now Pat, you need to be asking yourself which class benefits from Ireland’s membership of the Euro monetary straitjacket. I’ll give you a clue. It’s not the working class.

“Patsy,
You truly are a deluded twit.
What exactly do you think the NAMA bonds are? Do you imagine that NAMA suddenly magicked €32 billion into existence?

The NAMA bonds are government guaranteed securities. It was Euro denominated money borrowed by an agency of the state which needs to be repaid with interest by the Irish State and so is ultimately paid from the resources of the Irish people.”

No, no, no, no, no and no again, you said that NAMA “borrowed” 32 billion, ,let me explain it to you again.

NAMA issued 32 billion worth of bonds for 74 billion worth of loans from the 5 banks. They were Goverment backed bonds.

As NAMA sells the loan books, it repays the bonds. By 2016, 80% of the bonds will be repaid .

The writedown from the loan books totalling 74 billion and the NAMA was a loss taken by the borrowers.

“The only reason that Ireland’s budget deficit matters is because we are trapped in a currency union where we have ceded control of our money. If Ireland had a sovereign floating currency then our budget deficit would be of NO concern. We could never run short of Punts for day to day spending to run the health, education etc systems for example or to upgrade our water network.”

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
http://www.theirishstory.com/2011/01/25/life-and-debt-%E2%80%93-a-short-history-of-public-spending-borrowing-and-debt-in-independent-ireland/#.VbkhJCvF9QA

So Irelands deficit only matters because we are trapped in a union. You are embarrassing yourself now.

“Debt crises are nothing new in Ireland. Indeed, one could go back as far as Jacobite state’s bankruptcy in 1689, when James II’s supporters had to melt down cannon to produce more brass coins.[1]

This article however, will confine itself to the borrowing and debt history of the Irish state, south of the border since 1922.

The polity known initially as the Irish Free State and since 1948 as the Republic of Ireland has had three major episodes of debt crisis since its foundation. The first came right at the start in 1923-24, when the costs of, and damage done by the Civil War very nearly crippled the new state at birth.

The second was a long drawn out period of rising debt and huge public borrowing that lasted roughly from the late 1970s until the mid 1990s. The deficit here was caused in part by the world oil crises, but to a much greater extent by very large increases in public spending designed to trigger economic growth.

When the economy did not grow as expected, public finances were left with a massive gap between what they spent and what they took in in taxes. Repaying this debt and even the interest on repayments placed a huge burden on Irish taxpayer throughout the 1980s and had a lot to do with poor economic performance and massive emigration of that period.”

Sooooooo, in the 80′s we had a massive deficit – caused by?

What happened? Massive taxes on the people, real hardship, interest rates on mortgages – in double digits.

The deficit always matters, always.

“The bank bailout would not have broken the nation as it would have been paid in a currency we create at will. This is how Britain funded its bank bailout which was bigger than Irelands (proportional to GDP) and yet did not bankrupt the U.K. Did you ever stop and think about this?”

The bank bailout did not break this nation, the massive overspending, the bloated PS, the super dooper Social Welfare payments and the add ons and the more than generous PS pensions that cost the employee of the state ZERO – broke this nation.

” A sovereign Ireland could always afford to pay its state pension and social welfare bill. It would never have to take medical cards from terminally ill people in order to “balance the books”. It would never be required to balance those books. Ireland could of course still face real resource constraints e.g. energy or skills shortages but would never face a financial shortfall. Is any of this sinking in Pat?”

No Coddler – Soverign Ireland BORROWED to pay the State Pension and the sw bill.

Hahahahaha, can honestly say i’m dissappointed with only 77 ”BUMS” reaction to my post….

The rest must be minus a backbone, or just ashamed of themselves..

MONKEY SEES MONKEY DOES…….LAMBS TO THE SLAUGHTER HOUSE,..

The fallout from this will be interesting. Will they push the people harder to pay up, or will the back off?

John they have tried scare tactics, bribes even the threat of income/ welfare attachment orders.Seems not to have the desired effect.

I get what you’re saying, but they now have the legislation in place to deduct bills and fines from PAYE workers wages and social welfare recipients allowance. Will they now enforce it?

John true they have the legislation in place but first the debt has to exceed €500 and requires a court appearance to enforce it.Should make for interesting reading when people are brought to court to enforce a contract they did not sign up to.

Just call The General Election please and put this joke of incompetency of Government & Irish Water , out of its duel misery ???

Thanks Norman, i didnt know about the €500 and the court appearance. Are they capable of doing anything right- they couldn’t even get the legislation right for themselves! What a joke

And this will be their eventual to privatise it

As Norman says, Irish Water can’t take people to court until a minimum of €500 is outstanding which won’t occur until 2017 at the earliest. It also takes 2 court appearances to apply an attachment order to earnings, pensions etc. The judicial system would grind to a halt if they attempted to process the hundreds of thousands of people boycotting the latest banker tax.

All of the agencies of the state depend on the compliance of the vast majority of the population in order to function The bottom line is that the courts are not a viable option for the government to deal with mass civil disobedience. In this case the Irish people have refused permission for the ransacking of the country to continue under the guise of water charges.

IW has failed, the pay off retirement home for unelectable Eu lackeys has disappeared. All of a sudden there is a massive increase in borrowing when it’s obvious that the taxpayer will be paying. This is a smash and grab folks, we are being systematically robbed. There is no “black hole/bottomless pit”, there is only peoples bank accounts. All this money goes somewhere, remember that.

true Norman and it’s two court cases per person, and if you’re on the dole they can only take a tiny amount, another total waste of money, get the judiciary involved and all the associated costs to retrieve a couple of Euro. this is the govt at its finest, any wonder the country ended up in such a mess with people like that in charge.

“Irish Government water”

Cant wait to hear Kelly’s next threat for non compliance.

I’m predicting nelson will use a wedgie based system of some sort.

And now to top my day there is a picture of bird brain on the article.

* sorry that’s pretty nasty remark to compare birds with that person. Apologies….

If you’re going to compare him to a bird Kerry, try a pelican. Cos they can both stick their bills up their ar$e…..

More like an albatross Connolly bad luck for all.

Murphy back from ‘fixing’ Greece??

You have a point there Jason, us well owners are on the not liable list yet we’re still on their customer list.

Don’t forget the 90,000 ghost houses which were billed and considered as customers even though no one lives in them.

Journalists digging?…..that would be a rare treat.
Most are just reporters….reporting what they’re told to report.

in fairness, we get what we pay for and there a decreasing amount of money in journalism.

I really feel there is no journalist out there who will tell the truth.

they face the sack as it seems only one man signs the cheques and has form sacking journalists he does not agree with

Gene Kerrigan does, and always did. His work on the beef scandal was magnificent. How soon we forget.

Gene Kerrigan is the exception to the rule without a doubt, the only dissenting voice bar the phoenix magazine in this country lately

Water services were paid for by some people contributing to general taxation. Now they’re paid for by charges. The “pay twice” argument is disingenuous nonsense.

Yet again it’s the law abiding citizen, who pays taxes and charges, that gets screwed over by the entitlement freeloader types.

“Water services were paid for by some people contributing to general taxation. ”

‘Some’ people?

Are you claiming that most people don’t contribute to general taxation?

Because of the government’s incompetence you mean wasting nearly a billion euros so far monkey man.

What taxes have traditionally been “allocated” to water services?

Motor tax?… only some people have motors.

VAT?…. a form of double taxation in itself. Do you have a problem with “paying twice” there? Should we all boycott VAT?

Does an elected government not have a constitutional right to allocate general taxation as it seems fit?

You must be a fine gael politician with all the insults your throwing at the honest hard working people who refused to pay for this over inflated quango!

Poor diarmuid. Your posts today stink of desperation. None of them, conveniently enough, relating to the fact that the governments accounting trick has failed, theiir funding model has failed, and the money they’re borrowing to fund irish water is at a higher rate, and higher cost to the taxpayer, as a result of their incompetence.

Diarmuid,
I’m starting to believe you really are a gorilla…take your beating like a good lad and move on…
People 1, Fascists 0

Deep breaths Diarmuid, you’ll live longer hahahahahaha :-)

Can’t answer my questions I see…

The funding model has failed because of concessions made to the water protest movement in the cost of charges and in the effectiveness of enforcement measures.

The concessions were too much of a burden on the Irish State to pass the Eurostat test.

The Irish State, the Irish taxpayer, will ultimately suffer as a result.

The looney left set fire to a building, then now blame others for not putting it out.

If Diarmuid looks like Alan Kelly, talks like Alan Kelly then he probably walks like Alan Kelly but he is not prepared to use his own name.

“The Irish State, the Irish taxpayer, will ultimately suffer as a result.”

Uhhhhh that’ll be a nice change!

Actually diarmuid, the original person on this article ‘not answering questions’ is you. So we’ll try again…

Diarmuid:“Water services were paid for by some people contributing to general taxation. ”

‘Some’ people?

Are you claiming that most people don’t contribute to general taxation?

Damage the Irish State.

Damage the Irish taxpayer.

… all so the far-left ideology can be furthered.

Banker debt, NAMA, siteserv, IBRC, debt writeoffs for those who don’t need them, debt slavery for everyone else.

Yep, the right wing ideology is working a treat, isn’t it diarmuid?

I get the distinct impression that Diarmuid is not happy, how long before himself, search eagle or that grogan idiot try to blame sf?

Any chance of an answer to my questions above?…

You may have missed the answer to the motor tax, VAT, general taxation point.

Do you like hurting the financial position of the Irish State? Or you just going to deflect…

I’m sure you’ll be the first person to complain when future governments have less room for tax cuts and welfare increases as a result of the anarchist self-entitled water protest movement.

Again, the original person asked a question was you.

Third time lucky, I’ll try again

Diarmuid:“Water services were paid for by some people contributing to general taxation. ”

‘Some’ people?

Are you claiming that most people don’t contribute to general taxation?

“Damage the Irish State.
Damage the Irish taxpayer.”

You mean further damage to the Irish state and Irish taxpayer. Diarmuid, how many Left Wing governments have been in power in the last 20 years?

Diarmuid what did you think of the original IW tariffs the same ones that will be back on the table in a few years time?.

Did you ever stop to think that the original set up of IW was designed as a profit making machine to eventually be privatised?, only a party lapdog suffering from a severe bout of tunnel vision could or would say otherwise.

You’re dead right Diarmuid it is all about freeloading, government cronies freeloading off the already cash strapped populace.

Is that the “sponges” who have €770 billion stashed away in off shore tax havens??

Forget about the right or wrong of Irishwater, this is important in that it means there is less hiding from the reality of debt in society.

There are a lot of people who think that we aren’t like Greece in many ways.

Nearly 1/4 of the loans in this country are non-performing.

No more hiding and that is a good thing.

Diarmuid, there’d be no bleedin problem if the govt would just admit IW was a mistake to begin with, disband the quango and return water provision to the councils.
But no, the govt keeps plowing onward with this disaster wasting more and more money. The costs you complain about are the govt fault, not those who refuse to support IW

..only sine people have motors? really? over 2 million vehicles actually – at rip off exorbitant rated of tax at that. A truck at €3400, and a car at €750 – 1800 a go. Do you want me to send you a calculator as well?

Hard to keep up with the Looney Left “pay twice” arguments.

Thought it was motor tax that paid for water? “Some” people, not all, have motors.

You “pay twice” with VAT, road tolls, TV licences… you going to boycott them too?

If you don’t accept a Government’s right to re-allocate/increase taxes in one area, then I guess you won’t accept when a Government reduces tax in another area.

Gonna refuse tax cuts now are you?

Still waiting for someone to explain to me why increasing our national debt is a good thing.

You want future Irish governments to have less money for tax cuts and spending increases?

PMSL!

Still asking questions but refusing to answer them.

You made an obviously false statement. But I can’t really blame you. When defending irish water and this government, dishonesty is the only tool you have left in the box.

and the FG Monkey has spoken,

“You want future Irish governments to have less money for tax cuts and spending increases?”

Interesting approach, funny how p!ssing away hundreds of millions of euros on this failed quango didn’t seem to bother you that much. Your finger of blame is pointing in the wrong direction Diarmuid.

I haven’t always had a car I didn’t always have my own house however I always have a job and as such always paid my tax. I always had to buy clothes and food so the increased vat went to the water infrastructure, when I could afford one I bought a small car so then I started paying motor tax, of which some is going to the water infrastructure, finally after much saving I bought a house and I pay property tax of which some is directed to the water infrastructure. So by the process of elimination Fine Gael/labour and Irish water can kiss my peachy ass if they think they will be getting anymore money for their buddies from me. The afore mentioned quango and quango creators are finished. So say we all.

Good lad “For Connolly”

Can’t back up your “pay twice” BS.

Can’t explain why increasing Irish debt is good.

Can’t explain why damaging the financial position of Ireland is good.

“Can’t explain why damaging the financial position of Ireland is good.”

Right here’s an easy one, who got us into this mess we are in today:

A.The freeloaders?

B.The Left?

C.Fianna Fail,Fine Gael and The Traitor party?

D. Ancient Aliens?

@Diarmuid Sometime you can be a right pain in the ass …… I did not pay because Irish Water, from the onset, was set up a a Quango. If it had been a STATE company it would have been different. No, dont start the argument that its a SEMI state because most of our SEMI states have been sold, or are in the process of, being sold to date. The Top Management at Irish Water were incompetent from the get go. They gave themselves huge salaries and bonuses but yet had only failures from their past and cronyism to get these jobs. The Alan Kellys and Phil Hogans of this country are just bullies. I dont bow down to bullies. I wont assist corruption in any form. Read my article http://www.fieldreview.wordpress.com. Please wake up.

Somebody put that ape in his cage…

Diarmuid…explain this to me
How does Edna get a 100k lump sum and a teachers pension of 30k a year on top of his gold plated politicians pension for working 4 years as a teacher?

Diarmuid I really don’t know why you are getting so worked up. Michael Noonan just said “there’s no crisis, there’ll be a surplus of between 1.2 and 1.5 billion” to buy the next election.

FG/Lab made a hames out of IW. Incompetent disaster. (so much for the government troll accusations folks?)

Here’s a novel thought though:

Make IW a success, take it off the State’s books, reduce Irish State debt, free up more money for tax cuts and spending increases.

Instead, we have the Looney Left Spongers willing to damage the financial position of Ireland and hurt the law-abiding citizens who have paid.

All for what? To chalk down a victory for the far-left political classes.

That be a C , C , C , all the way :)

“Instead, we have the Looney Left Spongers willing to damage the financial position of Ireland and hurt the law-abiding citizens who have paid.”

Go away with your faux outrage, if you really cared about the citizens of this country you wouldn’t be on here cheerleading a government that cares little for it’s citizens. You’re full of crap
Diarmuid but it’s nice of you to keep proving that point ;-)

FG Monkey do you still get paid, even when your organ grinder is on holidays.