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Archbishop Diarmuid Martin (file photo) Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin says church cannot be 'self-serving'

In an address today, Martin reminisced about his time in Clonliffe College, describing it as a “very cold place in more ways than one.”

ARCHBISHOP DIARMUID MARTIN believes that unless the Catholic Church displays a real and enthusiastic commitment to Jesus Christ, it will become a “self-serving, self-referential organization to which no one will be attracted.”

His comments came during his closing address at the Vatican II Colloquium at Trinity College Dublin this afternoon, which had been organised to mark the 50th anniversary of the Second Vatican Council.

Recalling his time in Clonliffe College in 1963, Martin described the Catholic Church of the time as one that “was unchanging.”

While the winter of that year had been “one of the bleakest winters for decades”, Martin said that the college had been a “very cold place in more ways than one.”

Speaking of a “routine, a discipline and a way of life” that hadn’t changed in decades, the Archbishop said that “it all seemed so out of touch with the world from which I had just come, and in which my friends were thriving.”

But you were not supposed to think that way. Things were to be done as they had always been done. The Catholic Church was unchanging.

Church of Ireland

Speaking of the gulf that existed between the Catholic Church and the Church of Ireland, Martin said that “even entering a Protestant Church was a danger to the faith!”

“Christian Unity meant that Protestants converted,” he said. “We were not just divided religiously but socially.”

Recalling his own mother’s employment situation, Martin remembered the difficulties that would often accompany applying for a job:

My mother thought she had been successful in getting job early in the twentieth century only to find that her future employer, highly embarrassed, had to come to her and say that a problem had emerged: “Miss Mullen I am really sorry, but I always thought you were Church of Ireland”.

‘Risk’

As a student of theology in Dublin in the 1960s, Martin said that there was one word that was not in great use – “risk”.

“Risk could involve rocking the boat,” he said. “As a member of the Catholic community risk would be linked with uncertainty – and the Catholic tradition seemed to have no need to reflect on that, we had all the certainties.”

Risk could even mean irresponsibly leading yourself open to uncertainties, to an occasion of sin!

Describing society today has having “radically changed”, Martin said that risk was now “part and parcel of the way we live and the range of choices that are open to us”, adding that this same risk was now necessary to bring the church back into the lives of people.

A Church which is not riddled through and through with real and enthusiastic commitment to Jesus Christ will be an empty self-serving, self-referential organization to which no one will be attracted.

Read: Archbishop Diarmuid Martin speaks of the ‘critical juncture’ of the Catholic Church >

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65 Comments
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    Mute Dave Mac
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    Apr 13th 2013, 4:01 PM

    The Catholic Church is pretty much finished anyway..

    94
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    Mute Story Teller
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    Apr 13th 2013, 4:14 PM

    The church is in the process of deconstruction. There is no empire in history that did not eventually fail.

    77
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    Mute stayfrostynatty
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    Apr 13th 2013, 5:16 PM

    Religion is dying and im very happy,the world will be a better place without religion.

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    Mute Jeff Kennedy
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:29 PM

    I’m not a member of any religious group but frosty I guarantee you make any number of decisions each day based on a religious principal ,as do we all .I also can not help but point out a fact ,of all the major political theories, Socialism is the only one that activity seeks a purely secular society .All Socialist Dictators Stalin, Hitler . Mao ect… have used oppression of religious groups to deprive everyone of civil rights (Non socialist dictators use political belief as a reason to oppress ) So while a wish to lesson religious influence over government is a good thing, a total absence, is historically a bad thing .

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    Mute Socrates
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    Apr 13th 2013, 7:10 PM

    Jeff your right about oppression. But freedoms of all kinds were oppressed not just religion.

    Im a not believer I dont believe in superstition. The church oppressed people in this country for too long and I do welcome its fall from grace. I rejoice that science is finally being embraced.

    Saying that people are free to believe what they want if someone wants to believe that’s fine :) let them. If someone wants not to believe perfectly fine too. Freedom to be what we want.

    But church can never ever ever again be joined with the state. Invites only evil

    27
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    Mute Kitty Prendergast
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    Apr 14th 2013, 12:21 AM

    Good riddance to the Catholic Church. Jeff, I appreciate your sentiment but I think that we should make less time for religion and more time for spirituality. Everyone needs to stand up and take responsibility for their own actions and to act with good intent and kindness. If we all do this there really will be no need for a group of mysoginistic, abusive old men in dresses to tell us how to live our lives. Christ was a pauper, so they should follow his lead and liquidate the Vatican immediately and alleviate the poverty of millions.

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:21 PM

    Jeff I totally agree with you. I am non religious but cannot escape the fact that my value system, moral conscience was formed in childhood via the Christian values of the Roman Catholic church. I am not talking religious rules here but basic Christian outlook -’do unto others as you would have them do unto you’ sort of stuff. If I had been raised in Muslim, Jewish, Hindu traditions I would probably also hold these ‘ Christian’ values except they would be non-Christian values -just exactly the same without the ref to Christ-it x
    would be Allah, Yahwey, Buddha, Mohommad -whoever. [apologies to my non-christian sisters and brothers here for misspelling of their Messiahs where applicable. No offence meant- just a little bit illliterate:-(]. Basically I suspect without the specific rules of various faiths- many of us are probably Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist etc in our fundamental human values…more points of unity than division if we look deep enough into all faiths. I can say I am spiritual, humanistic-any manner of non-religious paradigms But I can’t escape that my fundamental moral formation was in christian discourse. I have a spiritual belief and before the atheists guffaw – this is called faith- I have it. Whatever breed of faith it actually is… I think the world would be in serious sh*t if we had NO moral basis -which is what the religions offer and just like technology-it can work to the good and also lead to destruction,depending on how it is used by us.

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    Mute Keith Wizzy
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    Apr 13th 2013, 4:18 PM

    He seems to be a nice bloke but that church is finished. He should start another one for de craic.

    57
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    Mute Jeff Kennedy
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:54 PM

    There’s already too many religion’s ,I rather he opened a pub ,there’s never enough of those :)

    23
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    Mute Dean Anderson
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    Apr 13th 2013, 9:45 PM

    Pat Buckley tried that. You never here of him now. He should have set up his own religion like L. Ron Hubbard might have had more success!

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:55 PM

    prefer a 5* free holiday myself

    1
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    Mute Seán O' Dulaing
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    Apr 13th 2013, 3:47 PM

    The first Irish pope? A real possibility if the current Pope ends the ‘see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil culture in the Church.

    56
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    Mute Beabad Bishop
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    Apr 13th 2013, 9:49 PM

    Ireland doesn’t need the RCC Like most of the other 5.8 billion non Catholics on the planet.

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:06 PM

    as a non practicing, non believing Roman catholic (and church wouldn’t let me be counted out lol!) – the Catholic church could do worse than have Diarmuid for Pope. He is a diplomat, a bit jesuitical- no small brain here- but he is a genuinely decent,progressive enough individual. The Vatican conservatives would probably not be too happy if Diarmuid got the white hat. Handsome man too our man archbishop, very congenial & very very clever. Ticks a lot of desirable boxes. I <3 Diarmuid:-):-):-) lol

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    Mute Ru Ni Digs
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    Apr 13th 2013, 4:15 PM

    “A Church which is not riddled through and through with real and enthusiastic commitment to Jesus Christ will be an empty self-serving, self-referential organization to which no one will be attracted.”

    The Catholic church is so far removed from the teachings of Christ,you would have to be blind not to see it.Once again Diarmuid Martin talking out of his holy of hollies.

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    Mute joe leader
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    Apr 13th 2013, 4:36 PM

    Just leave us alone Diamuid your brain washing days are over.

    36
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    Mute joe leader
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    Apr 13th 2013, 7:32 PM

    I got a lot of red tumbs for my earlier comment. It proves that brain washing does work.

    19
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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:25 PM

    @Joe leader- I don’t agree with you so that means I am brainwashed??

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    Mute Eachtigheirn
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    Apr 13th 2013, 11:05 PM

    I’m not going to condemn or condone the actions of the Church but there is something fundamentally decent about Archbishop Martin.

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    Mute FreeThinker
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    Apr 13th 2013, 4:23 PM

    There are many Christians out there who will tell you that Catholicism is not Christianity. I lost count of how many times I was told that, when debating with fundies and KJV obsessives. That’s about the only thing I will ever agree with them about!

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    Mute Lord Darkseid
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    Apr 13th 2013, 4:39 PM

    Deluded man with big hat is very amusing to Lord Darkseid. His Church is rioting and soon to be finished

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    Mute Alan
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    Apr 13th 2013, 7:29 PM

    I stand with you on this matter Lord Darkseid

    15
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    Mute Matt McNamara
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    Apr 14th 2013, 11:51 PM

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz more boring dribble from Darkseid the fool.

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    Mute Mary Kavanagh
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    Apr 13th 2013, 4:38 PM

    I think Archbishop Martin should be using the past tense here.

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:32 PM

    @ MaryKavanagh – part tense in what sense? :-)

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    Mute Timothy Gaythorpe
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    Apr 13th 2013, 5:29 PM

    Ding Dong religion is dead, wake up and open your eyes. Science is the new religion just open your eyes and awe at the universe to see all the proof you need.

    22
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    Mute ag_macnamh
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    Apr 13th 2013, 5:34 PM

    A little knowledge ….

    14
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    Mute deirdre
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    Apr 13th 2013, 5:40 PM

    Didnt u know it was God made the Universe. And everything in it. U cant deny that…

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    Mute Ru Ni Digs
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    Apr 13th 2013, 5:50 PM

    “Didnt u know it was God made the Universe. And everything in it. U cant deny that…”

    Prove it ???

    42
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    Mute deirdre
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    Apr 13th 2013, 5:55 PM

    How many more times do i have to explain it to u yet u still dont understand

    11
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    Mute BcuTCM0P
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:03 PM

    Why quote people’s words all the time?

    5
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    Mute Timothy Gaythorpe
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:15 PM

    How do you know? Where you there?

    16
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    Mute Ru Ni Digs
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:16 PM

    Deirdre,how have you explained anything to me,when in our last conversion I had to explain to you,how the religion you claim to be a member of,actually works??? If there ever was a better example of somebody following something blindly without even understanding what that was or how it works,was definitely that conversion.

    33
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    Mute Lord Darkseid
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:23 PM

    Deirdre the Fool, where is the rest of your gang?

    21
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    Mute deirdre
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:33 PM

    Ah thats nice. Can i call u Lord Darkseid the tool.

    U can be in my gang anytime..

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    Mute David o Gorman
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:42 PM

    Deirdre I am a catholic I go to mass but even your views are laughable the teachings of the church a flawed an awful lot of the church’s teachings are based on past traditions like a church that treats women as second class citizens and Denys a right to marry I’m seriously questioning my beliefs as the churches views don’t match my beliefs

    31
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    Mute Lord Darkseid
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:52 PM

    Quiet Queen of fools. Lord Darkseid is the darkness which lies in the heart of all humans. Your religious nonsense has never driven the darkness from the world.

    You will only realise the depths of your failure when the light leaves your eyes and you draw your final breath and then nothing but eternal darkness.

    15
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    Mute Jeff Kennedy
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:56 PM

    Why are you quoting Adolf Hitler ,Timothy ?

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    Mute Lord Darkseid
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    Apr 13th 2013, 6:57 PM

    You can call me your new master and Lord. The Anti-life equation will be extra satisfying especially when humanity will be Annihilated.

    9
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    Mute Timothy Gaythorpe
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    Apr 13th 2013, 8:22 PM

    Jeff I’m not quoting anyone only my views on the systematic brainwashing that is religion. You will all realise the truth someday.

    9
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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:31 PM

    they don’t BELIEVE it, they DO understand! believe it. what o
    you have Deirdre is a belief which in this case is a particular brand of FAITH! You can’t explain faith because in religious terms it can’t be explained, it’s meaningless to non-believers. Non- faith non -believers have different beliefs, meanings.

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:40 PM

    nah Dark Lord-illogical…if nothing after then when we draw our last breath -Finito! No consciousness left to know anything, not even that we are extinguished;-) that’s why a little bit of personal faith in God is no harm, no harm at all at all. Like believing in Santa-the pure anticipation, excitement and joy of it all-except unlike Santa Clause-if there is no God we will never know as long as we keep the faith alanna stoirin beag:-):-):-) lol

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:41 PM

    why do you doubt me …?

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:43 PM

    if there is no God – we won’t know that when we’re dead ducks

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:51 PM

    why do you doubt me …. Timothy? lol:-)

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 10:14 PM

    Dark Lord, Lord Darkseid -please will you aim some of your eloquent, deep, intelligent abuse in my direction? loving it:-):-):-)

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    Mute Matt McNamara
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    Apr 14th 2013, 11:53 PM

    Well said Deirdre LOL, he’s a tool indeed :-)

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    Mute Stephen murphy
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    Apr 13th 2013, 8:06 PM

    just crawl back under your rock church, let the world function and we’ll achieve peace in a short period of time!

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    Mute Hippocrateeth
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    Apr 13th 2013, 9:24 PM

    lol. world peace eh? good luck with that bro!

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:57 PM

    yes lol indeed!

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    Mute Vinny Murphy
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    Apr 13th 2013, 9:32 PM

    What a load of boll&&ks…..I too was a student in the 1960′s…student of codology..and I also had the term “risk” in my mind for most of that decade ….except in my case my “risk” was fear of being approached by priest for an auld cuddle …I was a bit of a looker in fairness, had to fight paedos off with a big stick back then. Alas, today the burden of the Adonis tag remains.

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:59 PM

    you were a minor or a over 18′s then?

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    Mute Eric Wrafter
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    Apr 13th 2013, 10:26 PM

    2000 years, as they reminded us, of self serving. Jesus told fishermen to give up their nets and follow him. I wonder if the church could give up its trappings and follow a wandering preacher?
    That said, so evangelical ministers in America should ask themselves the same thing.

    13
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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 10:04 PM

    I always wondered what was wrong with fishing? any inspirations? it was hardly jewels and materialism??! I never did understand Jesus’s take on that? nor why he encouraged married fisherman to desert the wives and children? (no predictable wise cracks here guys Puhleeeese:-)), seriously Archbishop D-will you illuminate the moral here?

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    Mute Roy Scott
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:09 AM

    While it a church goer I was in mass for my late mother month mind last night, 2 collection and a begging letter from Mr Martin for money was read out, and VDP was collecting outside. Only for the choir I would have been a sorry state of affairs . One collection was for the retired priests, could nt help thinking of the poor children.
    So I won’t be back , it hasn’t changed in my 50 yrs….slan…..

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    Mute Roy Scott
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:21 AM

    Sorry for typos, hate predictive !

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    Mute Stephen Mc Elligott
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    Apr 13th 2013, 7:04 PM

    I hear His Grace talking about unity. I read a very good book about the Lords desire for this unity of all Christians. You can read about its author here: http://www.jesusisreturning.com

    3
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    Mute Gaius Gracchus
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    Apr 13th 2013, 7:20 PM

    Stephen there’s no mention of Lord Darkseid on that website, it is the wrong address?

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    Mute Lord Darkseid
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    Apr 13th 2013, 7:26 PM

    The almighty Lord Darkseid defies your false idol Jesus.What is the fool waiting for to return? Look at my darkness covering the World, Syria, Africa, North Korea.

    I stand unchallengeable none can stop Darkseid.

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    Mute Alan
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    Apr 13th 2013, 7:31 PM

    Stephen cowers in the face of a true GOD

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    Mute William Grogan
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    Apr 14th 2013, 1:02 AM

    Stephen, could you let go the electric socket?

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:49 PM

    @ William grogan -electric socket lol :-):-):-) @ Lord Darkseid -me thinks you are a philosopher? @Stephen run as fast as you can-you’re in for a rolliking here I fear:-)

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:50 PM

    oh @Alan also lol :-):-):-) loving the ethic of yourself and Dark Lord-very clever indeed! Big brains. Thinkers.

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 9:53 PM

    @Stephen- God is dead, God is dead, we have killed him. Read your Nietsche before you join the Dark Lord’ s conversation with Alan;-)

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    Mute una simms
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    Apr 14th 2013, 10:12 PM

    ah Roy! don’t let a begging letter and VDP decide your fa(ith)te:-( Surely if you still go to mass, you haven’t been doing that to please the VDP or Dermo?? you know, non catholic believer and all that-there are many many decent priests who have done a lot of good work …. they need support in their old age too…hey wonder do priests get the dole, old age pension, free travel, electricity etc- hmmm??I do wonder why the seriously wealthy Vatican doesn’t set up pension funds for their retired priests…the banks do it for their staff! Poor old Dermot has to look after his aging priests as he has no access to the Vatican coffers- so what else can he do? a few begging letters here and there with a sprinkle of the (very necessary) VDP does not a church make or break -shurely not??

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