CAK everything you say is completely true. If ever there is an article about women on the Journal, my immediate reaction is ‘Oh, here we go, out come the men complaining about equality…’ It’s kinda sad really. Not sure whether it’s denial or distain. And I don’t think the article is about a ‘slap’ as dismissed above. Back off, lads, we all care about you too

@Andrew – I had a look at some other articles excluding a certain demographic – one focusing on the obesity levels of primary school children and one focusing on irish speakers. I didn’t see any comments at all giving out that these articles were not focused on secondary school children or english speakers. As I said commentators appear to be able to grasp that for the purposes of efficient study and dissemination of information that there needs to be a specific focus but if that specific focus dares to be on women the men come out in force complaining – and most importantly don’t seem even remotely bothered by the shocking statistics the articles actually highlight. This is what I find most worrying.

@Josh if you have a problem with the construction of the survey that is an entirely separate thing to insisting the study should’ve been about men not women. If you have looked up and gone through the entire survey to see if the questions were loaded then you are entitled to your opinion.

There you go men complaining “is kind of sad” that is a pretty disdainful, dismissive remark. Which lessens one side of a society problem.
All harassment is wrong to women, to children, to men

Bridget, the only way you could’ve noticed such a trend is if there was a sufficiently high number of women-only articles. Which sort of makes the point for the people who complain about them

Unless you can see the actual question it is impossible to know what the surveyors asked or how they defined violence. There is no doubt that shouting at someone is a form of violence, but so too is silence. Punching somebody in the face is violence, is slapping somebody gently on the bottom if the intent is affectionate? These large scale studies deserve a bit more than a simplistic and simplified headline. Bottom line is too many women experience violence in their day to day lives. BTW an article about cats should not raise issues about dogs, but an article about female cats cannot ignore male or infant cats and not expect some commentary about why.

All harassment is indeed wrong, but seriously can you not grasp that it is not possible/would be a absolutely huge undertaking to do a representative study of men women and children – this is why studies are specific. Ie European women, primary school children, the growing up in Ireland focuses only on nine year olds and 18 month olds etc. Noone complains about these studies but the MINUTE a article or study focuses on women the vitriol starts. Its horrible.

I completely agree that there should be more studies focused on men, but hijacking an article that talks seriously about the violence faced by women is not the way to do it. It shows a complete disregard for the problems faced by women. Do you not care about your potential daughters and granddaughter and how they might be treated and how all research like this is good for bringing problems to the fore so we can start trying to fix them.

@ Sean I gave two reasons why above – comparison of violence against women in Europe to violence against women on other continents and the scale of conducting 42,000 face to face interviews to make the sample representative.

Wrong it’s just that men are told to suck it up unfortunately and brush it off as a just a slap etc. most women I know are abusers as in they have slapped a fella at some point in their life. I don’t know anyone that has hit a women. Equality means preferential treatment for women it’s an absolute disgrace.

I think you miss my point CAK. I was saying that any article about one sex will raise questions about why the other sex was not included. I was not asking why the study was done – that is self evident.

Presumably in the obesity study they look at both genders and gave figures discovered. Obesity affects all. I’m sure the one about language was not gender specific.
But sexual harassment affects everybody therefore it only makes sense to include both genders.
Why can you not just say it would be better if the figures for men was there also and not just keep justifying why they should not be there.
Sexual harassment for men and women is a problem, for children it is beyond unspeakable. Harassment for the victim be it verbal or physical is a insidious dreadful experience regardless of gender and should be dealt with as a whole rather then gender specific.

Typical bigoted feminist rant .

@Sean if why the study was done is self evident then why question it at all?
@Andrew what you are missing is that while sexual and physical harassment perpetrated by one sex against the other does happen to men and women the incidence of it is far more prevalent in women – especially on a worldwide scale hence motivating gender specific research. I don’t understand why you cannot grasp that.
@Sean Whelan – you don’t know what you are talking about. The men in my life read an article like this and say that the results are shocking. I don’t understand why the men on this site cannot see that and raise their issues about the lack of studies focusing on male domestic violence etc etc elsewhere rather than hijacking the thread. I suppose I should just be happy that I do not have to deal with men like you who when a women wants to make a point it is immediately labelled a feminist rant.

Regarding the obesity study for example, my point is that this study specifically excluded teenagers and adults. Yet noone seems to believe that this therefore means noone cares about teenagers or adults. Rather the accepted stance is that separate research would be conducted on this. The world is circa 50% men 50% women – conducting a representative study of either group is best done separately for sheer numbers and logistics. The same way a study focusing on primary school children focuses only on primary school children.

But I don’t question the study or why it was done CAK. I merely point out (again) that if a study is done about one sex on a subject that affects all, people will ask why it did not include the other sex. It is self evident to me. It may not be to others. But I think you missed my point which is why I felt it necessary to clarify.

I just can’t understand why you keep justifying that research into the whole problem is a bad thing. Your original dismissal of men always complaining about a little lack gender balance is a little sexist in its self. Abuse is wrong concentrating on one aspect is also wrong.
Engaging in selective research of a universal topic only distracts from the problem. The headline could remain the same but if male figures were included it means that everybody can engage and some do not feel excluded.
We just have to disagree on the gender specific of this survey but not the results. In this format it heightens one aspect and diminishes another.

“Violence against women is more prevalent than violence against men worldwide”

Source?

Your quotation is incorrect – I referred specifically to sexual and physical harassment. Here are some sources taken from a list of National and International Statistics.

1 in 7 women in Ireland compared to 1 in 17 men experience severe domestic violence. Women are over twice as likely as men to have experienced severe physical abuse, seven times more likely to have experienced sexual abuse, and are more likely to experience serious injuries than men. (National Crime Council and ESRI, Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, 2005)
90% of the more systematic, persistent and injurious violence that is instrumental in the maintenance of power, is perpetrated by men. (Male Victims of Domestic Violence: A Substantive and Methodology Research Review, Michael S. Kimmel, 2001)
A major study of police reports and crime surveys in the UK, USA and Canada found that between 90 and 97% of perpetrators of violence in intimate relationships are men. (Dobash and Dobash, Women, Violence and Social Change, 1992)
In the five years ending in March 2010, more than 312,100 defendants were prosecuted for domestic violence in the UK. 93% of defendants were men and 85% of victims were women. [Violence against Women Crime Report 2009-2010, UK Crown Prosecution Service)

@Sean I think you missed my initial point which is that many male commentators are ignoring the results published above and only talking about how this survey should be about men not women.

@Andrew you say including male figures like its as easy as putting in an additional table of information. This would involve surveying 42,000 men as well as the 42,000 women which would completely change the scope of the project and again the project was undertaken with the specific goal of looking at violence against women. If you want to see more surveys of violence against men I suggest you lobby for that rather than putting attention away from the severity of the results from this study. I do believe that gender specific research is more beneficial given that it allows a better context (ie the context of the females vs the context of the males) . I do believe that violence against men should be given more attention and funding and that there are a lack of services for men in this country. I feel strongly about this given I have three younger brothers however my problem is with men disregarding the article to push their own agenda. It is also not sexist to state that its males with the problem – so far no females have commented complaining about the study.

I don’t question the results I question that in this day and age that only looking at one side distracts from the overall and changes the discussion, which as you have seen here, that’s what happened.
When you see the facts besides the other facts you quoted it creates a far stronger message as to the scale of the problem.
Abuse is wrong, violent and non violent abuse is soul destroying spilling into every aspect of a victims life. I just have to disagree with you on how best to present it.

Bigoted feminist? Definition of feminism: the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. Equality of the sexes. Therefore, anyone who believes in equality of the sexes is a feminist, whether they are male or female. Bigots who discriminate on the basis of gender are either called misogynists or misandrists.

@Bigoted feminist? Definition of feminism: the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. Equality of the sexes. Therefore, anyone who believes in equality of the sexes is a feminist, whether they are male or female. Bigots who discriminate on the basis of gender are either called misogynists or misandrists.@

Perhaps you can show me a feminsit website that can say something good about women?

So it should be a piece of piss to be able to show me a feminist website that has something good to say about boys, men or masculinity.

Feminism is a toxic evil ideology

Chris to women that’s ok, therefore to society it’s ok. It’s disgraceful treating men as second and third class citizens. Will we ever get equality in this country

Every guy get same. Come on lads we have all met the aggressive nut ball on a night out or at work and she is gagging for a fight knowing that you won’t hit back.

Then when you do hit back they go spa

The daily fail? Seriously? You may as well have posted a section from Brasseye.

@Jim

“Chris to women that’s ok, therefore to society it’s ok. It’s disgraceful treating men as second and third class citizens. Will we ever get equality in this country”

No. It’s not ok. The majority of women do not condone violence of any kind. Just as the majority of men do not condone violence of any kind.

And as for men being treated as second and third class citizens in this country? Where have you been for the last 1000 years? This is a man’s country. And until recently, women were very much second class citizens.

Don’t believe me? Okay, point out all the men who were forced to work in laundries because they fathered a child outside marriage.

Point out all the men who were told they had to give up work when they got married.

Point out all the men who don’t get jobs based on their gender.

Point out all the men who are frozen out of politics.

Etc.

Despite your hysteria, NO ONE is saying that men are not facing difficult issues in 21st century Ireland. NO ONE is saying that men are not important. The suicide rate is highest amongst men between 18 and 44. There are complex and varied reasons why this is so.

But spare me the faux outrage. And every time someone like you comes onto an article that deals specifically about the abuse of women and goes “But what about ME? What about MY needs? “, you detract away from the issue at hand.

Violence and abuse against women is a shocking problem. But this article does NOT state that violence and abuse against men does not exist.

Stop pretending that the article is stating things that it is categorically NOT stating.

Is it ok if I point at the men who are homeless because the state doesn’t provide shelters for them like it does for women? Or the men who are homeless because family court bias has crippled them?

Maybe I should point at the men in prison for crimes for which women were awarded lesser sentences or none at all?

If you prefer I can point at the men who aren’t allowed to see their children because unmarried fathers have no rights, or, similarly, the men who NEVER saw their children because they were adopted away without them even being consulted?

I could maybe point at the men who outnumber women in the dole queues, which might have something to do with the education system that fails boys every day.

There’s some men i can’t point at though. The men who make up 75% of forced emigrants among young people, the men who make up 85% of murder victims and the swathes of men who kill themselves as a result of the aforementioned issues. And I definitely can’t point at the dead men who regularly account for 99-100% of workplace fatalities

Since you talk about women not getting jobs because of their sex (without a single example), I also can’t really point to many make nurses or teachers or childcare workers. I can’t point to any quota systems to improve this imbalance, and I can’t point to any articles lauding the few who’ve broken into the “girls club” and made it in an estrogen-fuelled world.

And I can’t point at any state-funded quangos that campaign for equality by only focussing on the needs (wants) of men

And who’s fault is it that it’s like that Etienne?
If you want to have a whinge about a system that was set up by men, for men – then go right ahead.
If you want to try and blame women for it, then you might want to try taking your “feminist hating” blinkers off, because women are the ones who have fought for EQUALITY. Not men.

Really? Men never fought for equality? Wasn’t it all-male parliaments that brought in universal suffrage? Wasn’t Martin Luther King & Medgar Evers murdered for fighting for equality? Weren’t Mickey Schwerner, James Chaney and Andrew Goodman murdered for fighting for equality? Did John Hume not lift a finger? Was Ivan Cooper secretly a woman? Wasn’t every single civil rights marcher killed on Bloody Sunday male? Does Harvey Milk not count as a man? I suppose Donal Óg Cusack and David Norris are “NOT men” as you put it? Was Roger Casement’s beard fake? Was Daniel O’Connell a vile oppressor?

No, none of them did anything. You managed to be born female so you’re the real hero here.

As for your collective blaming of men for all the world’s ills; firstly, how utterly sexist can you get? Secondly, thee is no “system”. There’s culture, and ours does not value men as it does women. It’s because of a feminism-driven perspective that we overlook how poorly out education system serves boys. Our “men are all stupid” trope holds boys back from achieving their full potential. Our laws are so shaped by feminist hatred & fear of male sexuality that we put boys in prison for having consensual sex. And myopic feminist politicians like Kathleen Lynch tell us that 500 young men killing themselves every year is no biggy.

And the feminist response, as evidenced by you, is to look at these men and to BLAME THEM for their misfortune because of how they wre born?? You’re doing equality wrong.

I’m curious, since you collectively blame all men for something some men did in the last, do you also give out collective credit to men for building the building you’re sitting in, building the roads you travel on, designing the vehicles you travel in, farming the food you are today, designing the devices you use to bit h about men on the Internet (also a male invention)?

Ok – I take your point. My last sentence rings a little hollow in that respect as I was focusing on the subject at hand which is gender equality. Something that came about via the fight initiated by women.

But the other point I made remains, the system was set up by men, for men. There are large chunks of our legislation that belongs in the dark ages, but that is not feminisms fault, nor is it women’s.

So, I repeat – if you want to whinge about a system that was set up, supposedly to favour men (at least in the minds of the men who set it up), then please – do so. But point your finger at the root of the problem, rather than trying to blame the force that seeks to redress the balance.

Feminism calls for equality in family courts. Feminism calls for equal opportunities at schools (men dominate science, mathematics and several areas so women are encouraged to catch up – this is not trying to “disadvantage” males, if you would see it as that you have missed the point).
Feminism isn’t about pushing men out, or making them want to die – unless you count extremist lunatic fringe elements, and if you think that stands for feminism at large then you may as well call all Muslims suicide bombers.

I repeat, there is no system you describe. The laws that put underage boys in prison for having sec were enacted in the late 2000s. The Chief Justice is a women, the AG is a woman, the DPP is a woman. This a law enacted because of feminist ideology – that all men are rapists and all women are victims – prosecuted by women and upheld by a another woman

There’s no system designed to benefit men. That’s utter paranoia and obviously so

Your description of serious problems that men are faced with from childhood on as “whinging” shows you up for being just another feminist bigot.

With regards rape – how much gets prosecuted and how many actually get worthy sentencing?
Rape sentencing in this country is largely a joke. As a result a large number of victims never bother pressing charges, it’s not worth the hassle.
If an underage boy gets caught out there’s a small chance he will go to juvenile prison and if an underage girl gets caught out she gets to be pregnant whether she likes it or not (unless her parents will bring her to the UK).

There’s consequences for either side. One is a natural consequence and the other is a state enforced one. Most girls are aware of the risks they’re taking, perhaps boys need something to deter them? Teenage boys can be very eager to try sex, while girls are too – they always have the threat of pregnancy hanging over them.

Where you see an attack on men, I see an effort to place consequences on something that teenagers should think more carefully about before they start doing.

In family courts – you see men deprived of rights, many women see it as being left with the baby. You see men crippled with maintenance, where another could see men having to take responsibility for their offspring like the woman rearing them.

If a couple is in court arguing over custody then he’s hardly left her with the baby, has he?

As for likening pregnancy to prison, that’s so self pitying I can hardly believe it, and it shows a real lack of understanding about what prison is like. I wont even bother trying to explain it to you but keep these two things in mind; 1) a woman can surrender her parental responsibilities through adoption (something a man can’t do, by the way) 2) How is a young father meant to provide for his child if he’s in jail & then on the sex offenders register?

1. Not all men are that interested in playing their part, it’s fallacy to assume they are. How many family court cases are set around trying to make a man take responsibility for his offspring?
How many women are left holding the baby while their partner fails to take any responsibility? And they can by the way, some do, several of my friends fathers, or their child’s fathers did.

2. You speak of “self pitying” yet you conveniently ignore the pregnancy, labour and childbirth. The risks involved with each – which can be temporary, permanent or even fatal, and the fact that in the case of statutory rape – we are talking about a teenage girl carrying said pregnancy.
Yes – adoption is an option, but as I was talking about being pregnant whether you like it or not, adoption is a separate issue (and under the Geneva convention, the father must be considered for guardianship if he wants it)

3. A teenage boy who is charged with statutory rape wouldn’t be put in an adult prison. Juvenile detention yes – but not an adult prison with other sex offenders who may pose a threat to him if he is still a minor.
Ps – does he go on the register? Usually you get a clean slate come the age of majority.

4. I said it was supposed to act as a deterrent – something to bear in mind before you start asking your girlfriend to try sex. If they don’t want to get charged they don’t have to have sex with underage girls do they?

So sinead is assaulting a man with a slap assault? And the ould no means no works both ways so that argument is defunct. Men just want equality but alas it’s a long way off. It’s no wonder the mental health issues affecting young men when they are continually discriminated against in life

It is a valid question Sinead. I have heard violence against men justified by the female perpetrator as sure it was only a slap and he’s a man he can take it. But that is a distraction from the main issue. Too many people have experienced violence from people they trust and love.

Etienne.. My “house” isnt being discussed on this article. The statistics here are relating to violence against women.. Of course women are violent too tho i have never experienced any agression from women.

Unfortunately as long as there are men who wont face up to their mistakes and not repeat them again and again. And as long as there will be men ignoring the issue (just like u are doing Etienne) then there will be violence against women.

I wish to God i could offer women some hope but i cannot. When u walk away from your agressor thats not necessarily the end of it

Your house IS being discussed, Sinead. You think you get to tell ALL men to “be a man and own it” but you can’t have that same challenge turned around in you?

And then you have the nerve to accuse ME of ignoring an issue? As long as women like you keep ignoring your mistakes, they’ll keep happening

Jim. A woman slapping a man is wrong. That is violence.

Answer me this. When a survey comes up about violence against women and the men dont address the actual results, instead they talk about themselves, what would you call that??? Denial?

Etienne.. You dont get it and you never will.

Andrew and Brians comments underneath here are examples of men “owning it”.. By that i mean they do accept that members of their own sex make mistakes. They are not shifting blame on women, or changing the issue. And they are not responsible for other mens mistakes. That is refreshing

Sorry Sinead I believe it’s a problem for all society I think this research would be better if the figures for men were alongside, then it would give a picture for abuse both verbal and physical for women and men. Abuse is wrong but it needs all parts of society to work to lessen it, by ignoring one part of the problem distracts from efforts to reduce it.
If you look at the whole thread it’s distracted because one group feel excluded from a problem that affect them. The headline could well be the same but the discussion would be different

“You don’t get it and you never will”

A cop-out from someone whose argument doesn’t stand up to the slightest scrutiny

Etienne. Why are u being rude?

By quoting you?

Is a slap the same as a full force punch?
Is a slap going to break any bones?

The slaps aren’t exactly good news – and no, they’re not acceptable, but to compare a slap to a punch is a little dishonest..

Haha “be a man” and “own it”. Be a chivalrous man and stop “being rude” by questioning my presumptuous assertions. What’s next? “Go and have a cry with your boyfriend?”

He said “partially”

You are right. Obviously crimes only matter when they happen to the right gender.

I don’t understand. Brush up on your English skills