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Elon Musk. Alamy Stock Photo

Elon Musk sues OpenAI for 'betraying' company's founding mission for profit

The billionaire, who left OpenAI in 2018, argued in documents filed in a San Francisco court late Thursday that the firm was always intended as a nonprofit entity.

ELON MUSK HAS launched a legal case against OpenAI, the AI firm he helped to set up in 2015, accusing its leaders of a “betrayal” of its founding mission.

The billionaire, who left OpenAI in 2018, argued in documents filed in a San Francisco court late Thursday that the firm was always intended as a nonprofit entity.

But he said recent boardroom changes meant OpenAI was now effectively a subsidiary of software giant Microsoft, arguing that this was breach of contract.

Musk has accused Microsoft of controlling OpenAI several times, with both firms denying the claims.

Antitrust regulators in the United States and Europe are also investigating the ties between the companies.

Microsoft, whose embrace of AI has made it the world’s biggest company by market capitalization, declined to comment.

OpenAI captured the public imagination in late 2022 with the release of its chatbot ChatGPT, which can generate poems and essays and even succeed in exams.

The firm has also developed image and video generating tools seen as the leaders in their field.

The success of its products has helped attract huge investment into AI, which boosters say could transform every aspect of human life.

Microsoft, a major investor in OpenAI since 2019, poured billions more into the firm last year.

And the software giant stepped in when OpenAI’s board fired CEO Sam Altman in November last year, hiring him and offering to house any staff members who were unhappy with his ousting.

The OpenAI board later climbed down, Altman was reinstated and Microsoft was given an observer seat on the board after the removal of members who were critical of Altman.

Musk’s lawsuit argues that this shake-up marks a violation of OpenAI’s Founding Agreement, describing this as a series of written communications between Musk and Altman and the company’s certificate of incorporation.

According to the suit, Musk served as “a moving force behind the creation of OpenAI” providing decisive funding to get the fledging nonprofit off the ground and make key hires.

“The events of last November are really well known. And it doesn’t seem to me that what happened there was an obvious breach of the agreements,” said Anupam Chander, Professor of Law at Georgetown University Law Center.

‘Calamitous implications’

OpenAI started life as a nonprofit dedicated to developing “artificial general intelligence” (AGI), a term loosely defined as a kind of AI that would outstrip human capabilities on all measures of intelligence.

The idea was for OpenAI to guarantee that such technology would be safe for humanity.

Musk’s legal case said this founding principle had been “turned on its head,” accusing OpenAI of continuing in secrecy “towards a profit-centric future with possible calamitous implications for humanity.”

Among other allegations, Musk’s lawsuit argues that GPT-4, the company’s current model, is AGI and that OpenAI’s board failed in its duty to notify the fact, as set out in its company mission.

The changes brought to OpenAI in 2023 were “a stark betrayal of the Founding Agreement, turning that Agreement on its head and perverting OpenAI Inc’s mission,” the filing stated.

“If the question is, did they deviate from what they proclaim to be their mission? I would say clearly, yes,” said Nikolas Guggenberger, Assistant Professor of Law at the University of Houston Law Center.

“But that is just not necessarily a sufficient basis for a lawsuit by someone who’s no longer part of the project.”

The suit pointed out that OpenAI still claimed to be pursuing AGI that “benefits all of humanity.”

“In reality, however, OpenAI Inc has been transformed into a closed-source de facto subsidiary of the largest technology company in the world: Microsoft.”

Musk is asking the court to force OpenAI’s leaders to make their research open to the public and ban them – or Microsoft – from making a profit from the technology.

Since leaving OpenAI, Musk has joined the chorus of critics warning that superintelligence could spell the end for humanity.

He also launched his own AI firm, xAI, last year and said he wanted to raise $1 billion from investors.

OpenAI and Microsoft are also being sued by four news organisations. The Intercept, Raw Story and AlterNet filed separate lawsuits against OpenAI last month, alleging copyright infringement. 

The New York Times has also alleged copyright infringement in its lawsuit against OpenAI and Microsoft. 

© AFP 2024

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    Mute Harry Corry
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:32 PM

    Of course he’ll apologize, but we all know he thinks it’s acceptable..

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    Mute mar
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:38 PM

    @Harry Corry: how do you know?

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    Mute Let free speech live
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:40 PM

    @mar: because he already said it. Do you think he saw the light and changed his mind in a week?

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    Mute Let free speech live
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:47 PM

    @mar: oh he misunderstood what he was saying, sure I believe it.

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    Mute PutinBot 5000
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:31 PM

    @mar: Naive much?

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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:38 PM

    @mar: free speech? Dont see much of it in arab countries

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    Mute Harry Corry
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:48 PM

    @mar: He only rescinded because of the outrage his comments caused. But you already know that..

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    Mute Eleanor of Aquitaine
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:04 PM

    @Harry Corry:

    Islamic deception, otherwise known as Taqiyya.

    137
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    Mute Eleanor of Aquitaine
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:19 PM

    He should be sacked from Trinity.

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    Mute Harry Corry
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:51 PM

    @Eleanor of Aquitaine: I agree – unfortunately it won’t happen

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    Mute Jho Harris
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    Feb 15th 2018, 10:06 PM

    @Eleanor of Aquitaine: Most of the sharia apologist in this country know what Tiqiyya is and won’t even Google it.

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    Mute Nick Caffrey
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    Feb 17th 2018, 2:10 PM

    @Eleanor of Aquitaine: Absolutely.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Nov 3rd 2018, 1:48 PM

    @Jho Harris: That’s because it is spelled “taqiyya” :)

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    Mute Roddy Reagan
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:38 PM

    Ali Selim is a prominent leadership figure at the Clonskeagh Mosque, as such is there any investigation into the potential facilitation of FGM within that community?

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:59 PM

    @Roddy Reagan: Simon Harris welcomed a statement from another Muslim cleric issuing a “Fatwa”. The fact that FGM is a crime under Irish law appears to have totally escaped Harris. Does we need “Fatwa’s” now, to confirm whether Irish laws will be observed or not?

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:26 PM

    @Patricia McCarthy: Wonder if they issued another Fatwa against Salman Rushdie would he be as welcoming?

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    Mute Jho Harris
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    Feb 15th 2018, 10:23 PM

    @Jarlath Murphy: Few know why the muzlim world wanted to kill Salman Rushdie and few bothered to find out what a fatwa is. The reason they wanted him dead was that he claimed that Izlam included female Gods at one stage.in The Kaabal in the center of Mecca. We are not allowed to dislike Izlam but they detest women which is partly why Selim made his comments but his true face showed through and now that he has been shown for what he is he got a chance from Pat Kenny to try to slide back under his rock. I know I used “z” instead of “s” but the apologists would have blocked my comments or might have gone far enough to cut my throat which is popular way of dealing with criticism in that twisted cult.

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    Mute Shamrock ireland
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    Feb 17th 2018, 1:51 AM

    @Roddy Reagan: i know him through the i can he is also a mysogynist and an advocate of dv

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    Mute Royston Fitzpatrick
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:36 PM

    Sorry because he saw his job dangling on the line.

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:44 PM

    @Royston Fitzpatrick: that’s exactly it. He was about to be fired, allegedly.

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    Mute BrianMcB
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:40 PM

    The deafening silence by Irish feminists on this issue has been startlingly. Had a Catholic Priest or Bishop advocated what Selim was supporting, TCD would have sacked him and the IT would have run a piece by moaner in chief Mullally. Instead it is a cultural misunderstanding. Irish feminists and all of those in TCD who supported Selim are hypocrites of the highest order.

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    Mute KingBen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:28 PM

    @BrianMcB: feminists are a danger to real women in Ireland.

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    Mute Royston Fitzpatrick
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:10 PM

    @BrianMcB: Lazy, lazy comment bandied about by ingnoramus’ regularly here ‘What are the feminists doing about x, y & z, if it was a Catholic blah, blah, blah…’. The National Women’s Council of Ireland have been highlighting and campaigning against FGM for over a decade now. Sounds like you just like trotting out clichés to reaffirm your confirmation bias and persecution complex.

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    Mute Royston Fitzpatrick
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:10 PM
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    Mute KingBen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:37 PM

    @Royston Fitzpatrick: blah blah blah again from Royston.

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    Mute Royston Fitzpatrick
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    Feb 15th 2018, 8:14 PM

    @KingBen: Blah blah blah facts, your kryptonite Fake News troll.

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    Mute KingBen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 8:45 PM

    @Royston Fitzpatrick: bigot

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    Mute Shamrock ireland
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    Feb 17th 2018, 2:01 AM

    @BrianMcB: i know him through the icc he is also a mysogynist and an advocate of dv

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    Mute Griff
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:34 PM

    Me no speak the…how you say, the English sometimes good too.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:46 PM

    @Griff: What about a statement from his employers at Trinity College. He says they are very ‘wise’ people. Presumably they will also have some command of the English language.

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    Mute andrew
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:24 PM

    @Patricia McCarthy: His English commands him:
    ‘My English is really good but definitely sometimes it lets me down’

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:51 PM

    @andrew: The Dept. of Education should Investigate the link between Clonskeagh Mosque and Trinity College. Why are the Irish people paying a Salary to a man who is vehemently opposed to Irish law, and is willing to flout those laws by issuing statements that are contrary to Irish law?

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    Mute John003
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:37 PM

    All Muslim scholars say it has nothing to do with Islam and is cultural….However it is spreading in Muslim parts of Malaysia that did not have it before…With medical clinics openly doing it….In England majority of girls that have FGM done are from Muslim community many with well educated parents…

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    Mute Ibhar Mac Suibhne
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:11 PM

    Yep it’s wide spread amongst the Jewish community also … with all boys being circumcised … yikes!

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:49 PM

    @Ibhar Mac Suibhne: Not comparable at all, male circumcision has no long term effects, does not interfere with sexual satisfaction in any way, and does not traumatize the boy, or man.

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    Mute David Jordan
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    Feb 15th 2018, 10:04 PM

    @John003: It is also commonly practiced by Christians in sub-Saharan Africa.

    In Ethiopia, 92% of Muslim women, 65.8% Protestants, 58.2% Catholics and 55% Traditional Religions practice FGM.
    In Nigeria, FGM is prevalent in 31% of Catholics, 27% of Protestant and 7% of Muslim women.
    In Benin, FGM is prevalent in 82% of Muslim women, 73% of traditional religions, 66% of Roman Catholics and 60% of Protestants.
    In the Central African Republic, FGM is prevalent in 39% of Muslims, 36% of Protestants, and 35% of Catholic women.
    In Chad, FGM is prevalent in 61% of Muslim women, 31% of Catholics, 16% of Protestants, and 12% of traditional religions.
    In Eritrea, GM prevalence is 99% amongst of Muslim, 89% of Catholic and 85% of Protestant women aged 15–49 years.
    In Guinea, FGM is prevalent in 99% of Muslim women, 94% of Catholics and Protestants, and 93% of Animist women.

    In the UK, FGM is mainly limited to Muslims from Africa e.g. the Somali community.

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    Mute David Grey
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    Feb 15th 2018, 11:40 PM

    Do you know what FGM is

    7
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    Mute Jho Harris
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:07 AM

    @Ibhar Mac Suibhne: Is that your style, defending an abhorrent religious practice by pointing out that another religion has a similar practice which is not in anyway as barbaric? For my part I think almost all religions should be outlawed. This country was ruled by Catholic rules and our forefathers gave their lives to chase a foreign country out to give us freedom and now we have a government who want to hand the power to a different religion namely Muzlims and more rights to non-Irish living here.

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    Mute Myk_Oval_Balls_nRyt
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:28 PM

    He’s only sorry his 200,000 K a year job is on the line. The veil has been well and truly lifted on this regressive, fundamentalist & intolerant ideology.

    318
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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:37 PM

    @Myk_Oval_Balls_nRyt: bringing the good name of Trinity into the gutter.

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    Mute Tweety McTweeter
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:12 PM

    @Myk_Oval_Balls_nRyt:
    200,000k a year is more than half of TCDs annual budget! He must be good

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:16 PM

    @Gus Sheridan: Bringing Clonkeagh Mosque into Trinity. Why hasn’t he been sacked? Why has there been no statement issued by Trinity?

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    Mute Neil Farrell
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:53 AM

    @Myk_Oval_Balls_nRyt: Haha, you can’t say veil…

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    Mute Colette Kearns
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:45 PM

    I don’t remember him saying “sorry “ what I heard him say was that he misunderstood what he was been asked about!

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    Mute Jed I. Knight
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    Feb 15th 2018, 8:55 PM

    @Colette Kearns: We have a few phrases in our culture too, like “backpedalling”. In this context it means when one regrets opening ones mouth, one then engages in damage control by making pathetic excuses, apologising etc. One avoids lengthy interviews in which one may be asked to deny ones beliefs.
    “Male bovine effluent” (some translation may be required) See above, it may be used daily but in this context it’s used in conjunction with “backpedalling” in order to save one’s job, reputation and possibly keep head and neck attached. N.B. Not normally a risk in civilised parts of the world but been known to happen, in the name of peace of course.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:34 PM

    As sincere as a brazzers kiss

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    Mute mar
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:38 PM

    @The Risen: how do you know?

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:48 PM

    @mar: Well for one, if I instruct people how to go about committing an illegal act, claiming the following week that I condemn said act ‘in the strongest terms’ wouldn’t be very convincing, would it?

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    Mute Beyond Belief
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:58 PM

    ^ THIS

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:19 PM

    This lad has a history of contemptible utterances. He should be escorted to the airport.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:36 PM

    @Honeybadger197: Better book him a seat beside you so. When he tries to fire up a conversation you can change the subject to child abuse in order to have a go at the provos, like you did on that (unbelievably enough) storm ophelia article.

    It was the most distasteful, and disrespectful to victims of child abuse,’contemptible utterances’ I have ever read on this site.

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    Mute Beyond Belief
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:39 PM

    @The Risen: can you point me to that story please……I would be interested in reading those comments.

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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:44 PM
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    Mute Beyond Belief
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:55 PM

    @The Risen: Thank you

    Those comments are an absolute disgrace. And yes, highly offensive to victims of child abuse. And for what? Because you made a joke about Varadkars spin unit?

    24
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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:57 PM

    @The Risen: You mean this: http://jrnl.ie/3648761

    I stand over everything I said. For anyone interested, Risen is being especially economical with the truth and indeed as to how the conversation/ thread led to there. His is the first comment so its not hard to find.

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    Mute Beyond Belief
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:00 PM

    @Honeybadger197: You should be ashamed of yourself

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    Mute Father Hody Commody
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:03 PM

    @Honeybadger197: You’re a despicable piece of work.

    28
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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:07 PM

    @Beyond Belief: He doesn’t do shame. Check out his handiwork some time on the issue of child abuse under his previous names i.e. charles wrex, charlie rex, alan brogan….all to have a go at his political rivals.

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:08 PM

    @Father Hody Commody: As above, I stand over everything I said. Simple.

    33
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    Mute Beyond Belief
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:12 PM

    @Honeybadger197: Oh, big deal. How brave do you have to be exactly to stand over disgusting comments you make on the internet using an anonymous account?

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:14 PM

    @The Risen: Are the provos my political rivals now? Remind me of your reaction to the article here on the similarities of how the Catholic Church & the Provos dealt with child abuse within their ranks.

    31
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    Mute The Risen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:19 PM

    @Honeybadger197: You never fail to help me prove my point, do you?

    Keep digging, cheers x

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:22 PM

    @The Risen: Nor you mine. I stand over everything I said.

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    Mute Beyond Belief
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:28 PM

    @Honeybadger197: You use an anonymous account to stand over disgusting anonymous comments you made on the internet anonymously.

    So bloody what? Big deal. You should be ashamed.

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:48 PM

    @Beyond Belief: I stand over everything I said. End of story.

    26
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    Mute Beyond Belief
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    Feb 15th 2018, 8:43 PM

    @The Risen: I was going to discuss this further, but an ‘end of story’ diktat has been issued by the anonymous poster standing by their disgusting anonymous comments about child abuse.

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    Mute Honeybadger197
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    Feb 15th 2018, 8:53 PM

    @Beyond Belief: Please outline what is disgusting about asking someone why they are able to specifically (and rightly) condemn child abuse by members of the Catholic Church, but are singularly unable to offer the same treatment to child abuse committed by the Provos (going so far, hypocritically, as to say you that can’t blame the organisation). I am at a loss to understand your comprehension of what disgusting entails in this instance.

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    Mute Eleanor of Aquitaine
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    Feb 15th 2018, 11:25 PM

    @Beyond Belief:

    In fairness, @Honeybadger had @Risen scrambling throughout that thread, @Risen couldn’t bring itself the condemn the terrorist Provos as he could the Church. Why should Honeybadger be ashamed? Surely @Risen should be?

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    Mute William Bryan
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:08 PM

    Now Trinity need to do the right thing and fire him! Students union of Ireland got rid of their last president for being anti abortion, what is their view on this individual !

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:24 PM

    @William Bryan: Why has there been no statement from Trinity College, or their students union?

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    Mute Eleanor of Aquitaine
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    Feb 15th 2018, 8:54 PM

    @Patricia McCarthy:

    Probably crippled by political correctness, the cowards don’t want to come across as “Islamophobic”… and oxymoron.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 9:53 PM

    @Eleanor of Aquitaine: They might be waiting for a responding Fatwa to be issued by the Clonskeagh Mosque. In response to the Fatwa issued by the Islamic centre of Ireland. The students of Trinity may well be compulsorily required to study Fatwa’s issuing from the dept. of Arabic studies, in the near future.

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    Mute Griff
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:44 PM
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    Mute Royston Fitzpatrick
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:12 PM

    @Griff: What are you doing about it? Oh right, nothing.

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    Mute Jarlath Murphy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:25 PM

    A cynic might suggest he was happy supporting FGM, right up until the penny dropped that he was likely to find himself heading back to an Islamist Nirvana, like Syria!

    Quite happy to bring the negative aspects of their culture here, not quite so happy to be fully immersed in all aspects by heading back to their wonderful culture!

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    Mute EC P Ford
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:37 PM

    Deport him

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    Mute Beyond Belief
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:38 PM

    The genital mutilation community is almost exclusively religious. It has no place in the 21st century and should carry the harshest penalties possible for even seeking one for a child.

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Feb 15th 2018, 11:24 PM

    @Beyond Belief: we are ok – never mind our state’s laws, there’s a fatwa now.

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    Mute purple rain
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:44 PM

    I’ll go by his first answer.

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    Mute Dave Gillen
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:30 PM

    The media need to stop giving him a platform.

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    Mute Patricia McCarthy
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    Feb 15th 2018, 8:06 PM

    @Dave Gillen: The media need to ask his employers at Trinity College why they are continuing to employ the man
    Perhaps Trinity could also explain their basis for giving him a doctorate.

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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:36 PM

    We dont need this lunatic in Ireland. He needs to be deported. His brand of Islam will be welcome in Ireland when Saudai Arabia allows Christian churches in their kingdom.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Nov 3rd 2018, 1:52 PM

    @Gus Sheridan: No brand of Islam should be welcome here. Haven’t we had enough of Middle Eastern mind viruses?

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    Mute Andy Cross
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:55 PM

    The followers of Bedlam are steeped in barbican customs

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    Mute Joe Byrne
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    Feb 15th 2018, 7:26 PM

    Why haven’t Trinity sacked this lying savage and our hypocritical Government should deport him

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    Mute Sean og S
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    Feb 15th 2018, 8:23 PM

    He is one dangerous man. Should be deported.

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    Mute David Grey
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    Feb 15th 2018, 11:38 PM

    Surely Irish law is all that’s relevant here

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    Mute Paul
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:24 PM

    Castrate him. See how it feels.

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    Mute mar
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    Feb 15th 2018, 5:36 PM

    Fair enough.

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    Mute Gary Casserly
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    Feb 15th 2018, 6:51 PM

    Circumcision, FGM, Male, Female it’s all deranged rubbish. No time for this kind of disgusting obsession with kids’ genitals. Maybe it is the religion and the people want respect, fine, but if a Catholic man was spewing this vomit I’d be just as disrespectful to him. Sicko.

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    Mute Andy Cross
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    Feb 15th 2018, 11:09 PM

    Sad all those students that want abortion ,and shout down everyone’s else different opinion ,stay silent when young children are mutilated , but i guess the only hate their own white race and christian values ,

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    Mute MakeitCount
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    Feb 16th 2018, 2:12 AM

    It’s not anti-muslim hype at all, just this society needs to make sure that we are all protected under Irish law and that our good values can continue. Once the world can see this, there is a higher chance that all who come here will respect that and come for the right reason. We all can be happy and safe, in theory. We have to be on the lookout for deception, as we know so much information these days.. Good fences make good neighbours as we all know.

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    Mute Kevin Slater
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:37 AM

    This must twist the minds of the multiculturalists;
    condemn FGM or support the absolute right to cultural expression regardless of it’s clear savage brutality.
    Right up there with the idea that the hijab is a woman’s choice. The choice is wear it or be excluded from your tribe.

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    Mute Liam Egan
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    Feb 17th 2018, 7:39 AM

    @Kevin Slater: every society has its own cultural norms. If a woman chose to walk naked down the streets of Ireland, not only would she be arrested for indecency but she’d most likely be ostracized by her family and community.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Feb 15th 2018, 11:58 PM

    Time is always a good indicator especially at the amount it takes for someone to say the right thing?

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    Mute Californialov3
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:56 AM

    FGM is cruel, horrific and any parents that want to put their daughter through that, I suggest they seek help for mental issues!

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    Mute Brendan Johnston
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:43 AM

    We have to introduce a minimum age of consent for male genital mutilation as well,in the same way as you wouldn’t be allowed to tattoo a baby why is it OK to mutilate his genitals. Consent is the word here not ban.

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    Mute Liam Egan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:33 AM

    The anti-Muslim hype is palpable. In his initial comments Dr Salim clearly likened the Islamic practice of female circumcision to labiaplasty, an increasingly common procedure in the west.
    Indeed Dr Salim and I have shared platforms where we have sought to distinguish and separate the two very different procedures in the minds of people. However, an anti-Muslim agenda placated by indolence in the largely immigrant Muslim community has ensured that voices that seek reason and clarification will not be heard.
    The shameful derision and witch-hunt that has ensued over the last few days is an indictment upon Ireland’s claim to equality and rights for all. Shame, shame, shame

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    Mute Liam Egan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:38 AM

    @Liam Egan: It is my contention that the relatively recent legislation regarding FGM recklessly conflates the abhorrent mutilation of young girls with the legitimate and consensual Sunnah practice of female circumcision and in doing so subjects an already beleaguered community within Irish society to further repressive scrutiny. Further, it risks damaging functional societal relations and could be the impetus for the kind of backstreet surgeries that resulted from Ireland’s abortion stance.

    None of those scenarios is desirable, yet a dangerously eccentric leftist politic and far-right Islamophobic sentiment have become paradoxical bedfellows in this latest pogrom against Islam. They have sought to blur the very necessary distinctions raised by conscientious Muslims, such as Dr Salim.

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    Mute Eleanor of Aquitaine
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    Feb 16th 2018, 9:26 AM

    @Liam Egan:

    Ah look, Liam Egan is back, this should be a laugh. “Mujaahid” do you think you’re some sort of convert Jihadist? Judas would be more fitting.

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    Mute Liam Egan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 12:20 PM

    @Eleanor of Aquitaine: there is no barbaric practice of FGM in Islam. There is a barbaric practice called FGM that imbeciles associate with Islam.

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    Mute Eleanor of Aquitaine
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    Feb 16th 2018, 12:57 PM

    @Liam Egan:

    How can a child, an infant, consent to your warped Ideologies, as you say, “consensual sunnah practice”? You can dress it up all you like with your so called religious and cultural traditions, but in the end its child abuse, and the pain will follow that child into womanhood, all because a dirty old Imam fears womens sexual freedoms, isn’t that right Liam? Your prophet so insecure in his lifetime, hated women, hated Jews and just about anything that was not Islamic your practices are not welcome here in these Christian lands.. “Mujaahid”…you will meet your Crusader some day, Judas.

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    Mute Kevin Slater
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:39 PM

    @Liam Egan: reliance on a supernatural being is fine until you are an adult and realise you are responsible for yourself. Adult belief in the supernatural is defacto evidence of mental illness.

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    Mute Liam Egan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:41 PM

    @Eleanor of Aquitaine: you obviously have a problem reading. I’d suggest Tom and Kate as a starter series and when you’re ready you can progress to adult discussion.

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    Mute Liam Egan
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    Feb 16th 2018, 1:42 PM

    @Kevin Slater: yawn

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    Mute John Nolan
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    Feb 17th 2018, 8:06 AM

    No place in ireland for this mind set sack him, irish people target for far less contervisal comments, and their careers destroyed if your Muslim it’s excetable

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    Mute Brendan Johnston
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    Feb 16th 2018, 10:41 AM

    Wehave to introduce a minimum age of consent for male genital mutilation as well,in the same way as you wouldn’t be allowed to tattoo a baby why is it OK to mutilate his genitals. Consent is the word here not ban.

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    Mute Rabiae Howary
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    Feb 16th 2018, 7:33 AM

    Yes we all know….

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