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Updated 4.15pm
MICHEÁL MARTIN AND ENDA Kenny have spoken by phone for the first time since the general election – but there is some confusion over what was said during the call.
Martin has said that the pair have agreed to meet for talks on government formation next week, but Fine Gael have claimed there was no agreement and that Kenny later offered, by text, to meet as early as tomorrow.
Earlier, the Fianna Fáil leader said he rang his Fine Gael counterpart before lunch and that they agreed to continue their respective discussions with independent TDs ahead of the Dáil vote to elect a Taoiseach next Wednesday.
He said the two party leaders then agreed to meet after that vote, telling reporters:
We, on the phone, agreed that we would engage in the aftermath of that and following the conclusion of those discussions and the vote itself on Wednesday.
What Fine Gael said happened…
However, Fine Gael sources have said that there was no agreement to meet following the Dáil vote next week and that Martin never asked to meet Kenny in the discussion.
A well-placed source said that Kenny subsequently tried to phone Martin back to arrange a meeting as early as tomorrow, but there was no answer.
The source said that Kenny then sent a text to Martin offering to meet tomorrow afternoon following the conclusion of Fine Gael’s talks with independents.
What Fianna Fáil said happened…
However, Fianna Fáil sources said that Martin did not see this text until after he spoke to the media on the Leinster House plinth this afternoon.
A well-placed Fianna Fáil source has now disputed Fine Gael’s account of Martin’s conversation with Kenny and insisted that the pair did agree to talk after Wednesday.
The source said that Martin only saw Kenny’s text after his press conference and responded to Kenny to the effect that they should meet, as agreed, after next Wednesday in order to allow Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil time to continue its discussions with independents.
Asked by the media if Kenny offered to meet tomorrow, Martin said the Taoiseach “may be texting or whatever like that” but added: ”We agreed that we wouldn’t meet tomorrow, because he [Kenny] said he was finishing his discussions tomorrow.
He said he was going to polish off, to use his phrase, the [Fine Gael] document [with independent TDs].
What Micheál Martin told the media…
Addressing the media, Martin made clear that he wished to continue discussions with independent deputies in the coming days.
He is due to meet with independents Clare Daly and Mick Wallace later and hold roundtable talks with as many as 15 other independent TDs next Monday and Tuesday prior to the Dáil vote the following day.
Martin said he rang Kenny to establish the truth of reports that next Wednesday’s vote for Taoiseach would be deferred due to the ongoing failure to form a government.
He said he got an assurance from the Taoiseach that the vote would go ahead as planned.
Martin also said that he relayed his frustration to Kenny over comments made by Richard Bruton yesterday in which he ruled out Fine Gael supporting a minority Fianna Fáil government.
The Cork South-Central TD said he would continue efforts to form a minority government led by his party, but did not rule out supporting a Fine Gael minority government.
“I know that people are anxious to know when a government is formed, but I think we’re still some few weeks away from that yet,” he added.
He said that Fianna Fáil’s policy on abolishing Irish Water and suspending water charges remained and it would not be pulling back from it.
But he encouraged people to continue to pay their bills.
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Why are travellers considered a vulnerable group again? Most people feel vulnerable in the presence of them
Polemic for green thumbs
FF and reform have being an excellent combination before. Such a crap bill from them.
Ronan, sound like one of those totally biased comment that is of course unless you have fully read the proposed bill which from the tone of your comment you have not but then you would say you have even if you did not. Good that you recognise that FF and reform are an excellent combination though!
Reform of the Seanad is a waste of time and energy. We need electoral and Dail reform. Reform of the Seanad would just be an exercise in “mass distraction”.
I think that’s finally sinking in for people now. Party list or MMR would eliminate the parish pump, public financed elections and lobbying reform would eliminate power of special interests. Giving the president reference to the people power for bills on his own would cut down on uturns and broken promises post election. Tinkering with the senates not going to get us anywhere the bad decisions that got this state into trouble were made in the dail and the cabinet and at closed functions with special interests that’s where reform needs to b focused.
There will be plenty of reform very soon this gov has to and will go to the park very soon
The absolute cynicism and contempt with which FG conducted the Seanad referendum was a disgrace .You would think kenny would have learnt a touch of humility from the kicking he took from voters, but as we’ve seen since the GSOC debacle, he’s still conducting himself the same way.
The way I look at it is that it wasn’t Kenny who took the kicking but rather the voters themselves who are on the receiving end – we have to pay for it and, possibly worse still, put up with this constant stream of proposed reforms that will never happen. We made our bed – I just wish that now we’d lie quietly in it.
‘currently “ignored” representatives of people with disabilities, the elderly and the Travelling community’ Aren’t the elderly already well represented? given the age profile of our public representatives?
There is not one Tasmanian in the Dáil or Seanad. I think this is a disgrace, How can we sleep at night.
Why only those select groups, why not every ethnic minority, race and fungi the dolphin, sure he’s nearly human.
The Seanad is fine as is.
Stupid idea is stupid.
“The Seanad is fine as it is”.
Thanks for the laugh.
The Seanad IS fine as it is – a totally irrelevant home for the semi-retired and the unelectable – paid for by me and thee. What could be finer?
The irish electorate have a wonderful way of mentally inserting things into referendum proposals that aren’t there..the senate one was about reform Lisbon was about abortion, gays, enshrining or destroying neutrality depending who you spoke to. Reform was NOT on the ballot paper. Your choice was keep a chamber of wannabes n hasbeens or loose it, u decided to keep it, under there logic that this chamber, which had never once checked govt power and had never used one of its main powers of review, article 27, should be kept…because its a critical check on govt power.
Many of us tried desperately before the election to explain the illogic of that to the public and tried to tell you that they would never give u real reform but you would not listen. Remember that in 2016 when the candidate nobody in your area voted for suddenly has the title ‘senator’ and a seat in parliament anyway. You made an adult choice and didnt heed warnings that it was a bad one. Learn from it.
Well said Ryan!!
Not true. The government were trying to sneak in other reforms as well and these were also rejected.
Talking about his Mehole again
Typical politician’s this is designed not to represent the people of this country but to look good in Europe
I really hope #BrassNeckNomination doesn’t become a thing…
I hope it does James,,a monthly ‘brass neck’ winner should be announced , the preceding months recipient could hand over a trophy to the incoming ….see who gets it most often …
Gerry Adams can be the brass neck patron
Marginalised groups including Eu foreign nationals living and working in ireland should be represented inthe Seanad particularly as they are not given the opportunity to vote in Irish elections.
You see my point everyone has their own ideas and all the people with them hate the other guys ideas..senate reform is a mirage it can’t b done we should just get rid of it. That doesn’t mean giving the govt more power (the senates never been a barrier to govt power, by design) we can giver further review powers to the president let them refer major proposals that were not in msnefestos or that break election pledges to referendum on presidents absoloutr discretion. There u have a major check on govt without need for an extra 60unelected politicos and the cost of keeping them
The Shinners probably want gun men representatives in the chamber.
I spent months being lambasted on this site for telling you over and over again they would not give you real reform and you were being duped. This is a case where I hate to have been right.
I told you a second chamber can only be one of two things a source of deadlock or rubber stamp as all the proposals show. I told you everybody has their own vision of what reform looks like and all those visions contradict each other. Most importantly I told you that it’s not in the nature of any power structure in this case the government to hand over a potential barrier 2 or limit of its own power. The government would have been crazy from a political perspective to create a radically reformed senate that could be controlled by the opposition and cause US style gridlock, it was never going to happen.
Go back and look up what I said hear me now quote me later.. I told you they would do some tinkering with the university seats and call that reform because it does not require a referendum.
All you did by voting no, and noamount of thumbs down will change this fact, was give the people who you reject in 2016 a six figure salary and seat in Parliament anyway. Senate reforms a mirage and a distraction from the real changes that are needed in our political system.
labour party and fg will be thankful the seanad will be there for the seat losers to have some were to go after next election
I think the important point in this bill – which isn’t referred to above – is that the election of the bulk of senators will be opened up to the general electorate.
In other words, we can get to choose who is elected to the vocational panels – ie Education, Commerce, etc.
It mightn’t be total reform – you would need a referendum to go further – but it’s a step in the right direction….
Don’t be so naive this issue will fall off the radar and never be heard from again the senate is still with these changes a toothless rubber stamp that can’t block bills and if it could that would cause gridlock, there’s no way to win on this issue. So what if the public has vague input kinda sorta…u really think vocational experts will come out of this? PFF it will b the same tired old Greg suits as always. Besides we already have a chamber we elect properly so why would we need another one. The objective of the political establishment here is to tinker around the edges enough to shut reformers up all while avoiding real change and they’re all falling for it.
The Irish electorate always claim to not trust their political leaders but time after time they swollow their horse s1hit and say how tasty it is.
Can FF not accept the verdict of the electorate who voted to keep it as it is?
That is an absolutely false statement, Mark.
The public voted on it’s abolishment and were not given a reform option.
Having said that I don’t see much reform in the FF proposal. More like window dressing.
FF sat there for 15 years without reforming it as reform reports piled up. It can’t b reformed everyone has their own ideas and a consensus is not possible cos those ideas are so different.
I wish the electorate would forget what they learned in civics and CSPE and focus on how real world politics works. The kinda change most want.,a mirror of the fail with some differences around the edges would b expecting the govt to hand over a barrier to their own power..they won’t..FF don’t want such a limit when they’re in next time either which is why their proposals not serious. They want their bills to sail thru nice and quick without backbenchers offering ammrendments and picking them apart.
The big reforms we need are around election financing and the presidency this is a distraction.
Michael, I don’t see how my statement is absolutely false. The choice was to either abolish the Seanad or not. People chose not to abolish it – thereby maintaining the status quo.
One of the most important issues we have to resolve hasn’t even been discussed by our politicians while all this ‘He said this, I said that ‘ stuff is going on here, 90,000 homes need to be built , what scares me now are the salivating solicitors who’ll get millions while the homes remain unbuilt …
That’s a competitive category in Leinster House
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