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The most horrific crimes involving the degradation of an innocent person.
A collective sense of shame that somebody visiting Ireland had suffered in such a vile way.
Those are the words used by Mr Justice White when sentencing Eoin Berkley to 14 years in prison for the abduction and rape of a teenager.
Eoin Berkley of Hampton Wood Way, Finglas, Dublin admitted raping the girl at the Irish Glass Bottle Company site, Pigeon House Road on three occasions between 15 and 16 July 2017.
The Spanish student, like so many others that travel to Ireland to learn English during the summer, was staying with a host family in Dublin during her stay.
Described to the court as “naive and shy” the 18-year-old was just like any other tourist in the capital, taking in the sights on a day out in the city centre on the Saturday afternoon when she met Berkley.
Appearing friendly and approachable, he told her he lived on the beach and invited her to see where he lived.
She agreed and walked with him to a derelict site near Sandymount where he had a number of tents pitched.
What happened afterwards is the stuff of nightmares for both the victim and any parent that sends their child abroad to experience a new country and to learn another language.
The 21-hour ordeal involved her first being pushed to the ground and having her hands tied behind her back with a dog leash.
She told him he was hurting her but he laughed and told her she was stupid and that he had “done this before”.
When she attempted to leave the tent, Berkley dragged her back in and told her he had previously killed six people and was going to kill her.
He repeatedly tried to strangle her and at one point he picked up a small saw and told her that if she didn’t stop struggling he would cut her hands off.
She begged him to kill her in the least painful way possible and he gave her some tablets and he then put some black gloves on. She took the tablets and fell down and he began abusing her.
Over the hours that followed Berkley raped the woman on three separate occasions. On the Sunday he told her he wasn’t going to kill her until Monday.
He told her that if she tried to run away he would throw a rock at her head. He told her that he’d stopped having feelings about people since the age of ten and said he had cut the paws off household pets.
After hours of being brutally abused, the teenage managed to escaped when Berkley took her down to the beach and he fell asleep.
She rang her father on the phone.
“I’ve being (sic) kidnapped. I’m going to be killed,” she told him.
Her father told the court this was the worst phone call a father could ever get.
As if the mental scarring of such a horrific crime is not enough, the woman said for months after the rape she had to take medication in case of infections.
She constantly thinks about how she thought she was going to be killed during the attack and she is afraid to sleep at night now.
According to the victim impact statement, she said she thinks about what happened every day.
“I was afraid, I did not want to be afraid,” she said.
In handing down his sentence, the judge said the victim had been violated in a horrendous way, adding that there was a collective sense of shame that somebody visiting Ireland had suffered in such a vile way.
He said the ordeal she went through involved excessive cruelty, degradation and demeaning behaviour.
The judge said that the victim was so terrorised that she was effectively a prisoner for 21 hours. Throughout the attack she showed compassion for others, he said, noting that one reason she didn’t call out for help was she was afraid she would put strangers in danger.
Berkley’s history in care and prison
Berkley’s 25 previous convictions include unlawful possession of knives and a realistic firearm and threatening and abusive behaviour.
This included a conviction in June of last year for being caught walking around with a realistic looking imitation AK-47 rifle, for which he received a two and a half year sentence.
Gardaí had received multiple calls about a male walking around near Dublin Airport and Santry with what looked like a firearm.
Detective Garda Michael Harkin told the court last year the imitation Kalashnikov rifle Berkeley had in his possession was “the most realistic” of its kind his colleagues had ever seen.
At the time, the court was told Berkley only had convictions relating to drug offences and public order breaches, he had no secondary school education and had speech and language issues when he was younger.
The court also noted that Berkley did not present in court expressing any desire for rehabilitation, just that the case be finalised.
Berkley’s defence counsel in the rape trial, Michael Bowman SC, told the court that his client went into foster care at the age of four as his mother had psychological problems which were compounded by alcohol.
At the age of 14 his foster care situation broke down because of his own behavioural difficulties and he was institutionalised at Ballydowd, a facility for “unruly youths”.
Counsel said that after leaving Ballydowd he had lived in flux mostly in homelessness, often coming to garda attention in situations which caused concerns around his mental health.
A month before the kidnap and rape a garda inspector in the Dublin city area directed his detention under the Mental Health Act. He was seen by a doctor who deemed him fit to be released.
Two days later Berkley’s brother rang a garda station and said Berkley needed to be detained under the Act. Gardaí told him there was no basis for his detention and advised that Berkley seek medical care.
Mr Justice White said he had to take into account the mitigating factors outlined to the court. He said Berkley was taken into care at around 15 months old and placed into various care settings. He was kicked out of school at the age of 12 for “extreme violence” and never went back or had a job.
In a report handed into court the doctor found Berkley had a significantly compromised development and suffered from a severe personality disorder.
Questions will no doubt now be asked as to what could have been done to prevent such a horrendous crime, and whether more could have been done when red flags about Berkley’s mental health issues were flagged with the authorities.
The judge said he was not optimistic about the prospects of rehabilitation.
He said it was unfortunate that such a young person was going to prison for so long but said Berkley had to bear total personal responsibility for that as these were the “most horrific” crimes involving the degradation of an innocent person.
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De they not realise that forcing regular ie petrol/diesel cars to travel at these speeds will massively increase pollution in residential areas? No, I guess these geniuses don’t.
@Corey Dalton: Do you think speeding from one red light to the next is fuel efficient?
@Corey Dalton: On the contrary, as a general rule, the faster the speed the higher is the level of pollution. Lower car speeds decrease air pollution for two reasons:
1. Fewer emissions per car and fewer cars. On highways, cars travelling at 60 mph will produce far less CO2 than if travelling at 70 mph (between 10% and 20% less depending on the type of car).
2. In urban areas, although modelling of individual car performance might suggest that slower traffic has higher emissions, real world research demonstrates the opposite: the higher the speeds of cars in built-up areas, the greater the acceleration and braking, which increases air pollution.
Tranter, P.J., 2010. Speed kills: The complex links between transport, lack of time and urban health. Journal of urban health, 87(2), pp.155-166.
@: The article admits that pollution is highest at low speeds. Doesn’t improve until 60 km/ hr.
@: Who’s speeding, you usually wait for two changes of the lights before it’s your turn. Maybe you didn’t notice but the speed limits dropped from 50MPH (80.47 Km) to 50km (31.07Km) and it’s now proposed to drop to 30Km equivalent to 18.64 MPH.
@David Jordan: David your ChatGPT produced rantings don’t add anything to the conversation. I’m talking about speeds below that 50 km/hr where petrol diesel cars produce much more pollution the slower they go. Fact, or AI hallucination.
The law is the law no two ways about it.Now will there be enough garda to police it? Absolutely not. Ridiculous recommendations made by ridiculous politicians that couldn’t give a flying fluck anyway.
@Corey Dalton: Fact, not AI hallucination.
@Corey Dalton: Also, one real world example that is cited to support the claim that reducing speed from 50 kph to 30 kph reduces air pollution is Graz Austria:
“One of the best examples is Graz, Austria, that adopted a 30-km/h limit throughout most of the city in the early 1990s, which reduced serious pedestrian and driver casualties by over 25% as well as significantly reducing noise and air pollution.”
That said, I have to say I just read a couple of papers that claim the opposite, that some forms of pollution may increase, such as PM2.5 from diesel exhaust. Seems, from what I read, the direction of change, more or less pollution, depends on the type of vehicles using the roads and the urban environment. We moved HGVs off the most urban streets and we have more buses with lower emissions, also the the proportion of diesel cars sold is decreasing; 22% of vehicles sold in first 3 months of 2022 were diesel, compared to 26% in same period of 2021 (and car manufacturers were forced to reduce emission).
@Corey Dalton: this is a knee jerk reaction and will only serve to cause more accidents as more people will begin to overtake at these lower set speeds
@Corey Dalton: RUBBISH! COMPLETE GARBAGE!! High soeeds coupled with rapid acceleration are the main contributors to high emissions.
@David Jordan: we are going to disagree on this matter especially if Austria is your go to source. As someone who has driven in Austria regularly fir the last 3 decades the Austrians are regularly producing this stuff in order to prevent their country being usdd as a transit country. In the past they have used ocopoints system to stoo transiting which was illegal. Then they closed the tirol pass & brenner to transit traffic citing emissions as the issue. They were warned by Brussels this was illegal & climbed down. The science shows the most energy & emissions efficient speed for all vehicles is actually 80kmh but clearly in urban areas this isnt feasible for obvious reasons. I actually agree with the 30kmh limit in small villages or large city centres but to overdo it
@Mic JHintl: which is likely the outcome here will drive up emissions & accidents. Thats why air quality is poor in cities because of slow moving traffic causing a build uo of carbon particularly in diesel engines because they are not reaching optimal temperature. Austria is using emissions in a manner designed to suit their narrative in order to prevent their country being transited. Ireland as usual using speed to explain its road deaths which is just propaganda. Here in France this morning a couuntry quite strict on speed but no speed traps on motorways. All of these are usually on national roads. Germany with the highest speed limits in the world is not having the same issues with road deaths like Ireland or at least not in relation to speed. Ireland is obsessed with speed unhealthily
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: not true, the higher the speed the more fuel efficient your car is. Why do you think your fuel gets used up more just driving around town.
@David Jordan: Stop spreading misinformation please.
@Corey Dalton: That is just not true.
You’d be lucky to speed from one traffic light to the next in Dublin, considering that these days in Dublin you have traffic lights practically every 100 metres.
@: I believe he was talking about average speed. Take a little time to think of what he wrote.
@Eileen Kelly: indeed. On Tuesday I had cause to follow a particular route in Galway, and was behind a cyclist, and he in turn behind a tractor & trailer. Over the space of probably 2 km, at regular intervals, the cyclist made a Lifesaver look over his right hand shoulder as he was contemplating overtaking the tractor & trailer, and at one point crazily contemplated UNDERTAKING it, which would have been lethal. The point of all this though is this all took place at an average of 38km/h. The introduction of 30km/h limits will now see the potential for an unnaturaly left-hand side stream of ‘traffic’ (cyclists) be going faster than the right hand stream. Which is illegal. So what are the ‘geniuses’ going to do if that proliferates into either a slew of accidents or, will AGS be out issuing FPN to any cyclist who travels EITHER faster than the cars to the right (as it’s illegal to pass on the left) or will they issue FPN to cyclists above 30km/h anyway ?
@David Jordan: I would disagree with that report.
@Rebel Misfit: diesel and petrol cars are at their most fuel efficient when travelling between 50 and 80kms per hour. Above those speed you get more inefficient fuel consumption for every km you increase your speed by.
Driving will become a nightmare, we are moving from inappropriate speed limits to well more inappropriate speed limits, this will lead to more accidents.
@Eileen Kelly: That’s the idea behind it
@Eileen Kelly:
Driving is already a nightmare, and the only ones to blame are the drivers who can’t drive properly.
@Mise Freisin: which is most people 45+
@he didnt take the 120k because he already got it s: The stats say it is younger drivers.
@Eileen Kelly: driving is already a nightmare.
@he didnt take the 120k because he already got it s: I think you’ll find it’s the younger driver who hasn’t a clue how to drive properly and the ones who can’t put their phone down for 2 seconds.
@he didnt take the 120k because he already got it s:
There’s a reason younger people pay more for insurance than over 45′s. Any idea what that might be?
@Eileen Kelly: Anyone tried to drive at 30 Km/h in Phoenix park?
Give it a try to see how unrealistic this speed limit is.
How about actually improving the state of roads or alternatively introducing different limits on different stretches of the same road that warrant it. The road from New Ross to Waterford was 100km until the new bridge was opened then it became 80km. Road didn’t change, just bureaucracy. Nothing wrong with existing limits if implemented correctly.
Usual knee jerk government reaction.
@JT Quinn: Another 3-cup trick, watch the ball now…
How about having a man walk ahead, waving a flag in front of every car?
@Dan Breen: That was discussed at cabinet
Same roads less deaths 2022 no problem,same roads a spike in deaths-drastic reactionary response from this nanny state rudderless government
@Shane Doyle: Literally nothing except speed. Problem solved.
@Thesaltyurchin: Target the young Speeders, they’re known in every community, don’t punish everybody because the few can’t be apprehended, seemingly.
@Gerry Ryan: it’s not just “young” speeders. I live on a very narrow road and stupidity knows no age limit. I cannot wait for this new limit to be put up and I will hound the guards till they enforce it. It’s either that or one of my neighbours gets killed. Most of them are afraid to walk the road anymore. BUT this is a blanket solution to a problem. No two roads are the same and I think that every road should have been looked at by local councils to determine the most appropriate speed limit. Why do all “L” roads need to be one limit and all “N” roads something else when every road is different and in different repair.
@Catriona O’Sullivan: Would agree, wild roads in the countryside here which are all different. Where I am there’s a local factory so HGVs are in the mix too! along with tractors, horses, walkers, really old isolated people in classic cars, and so on. Has an plan for any of this ever been considered? nope.
@Catriona O’Sullivan: Doesn’t make sens if they only change the speed limit and don’t enforce it.
No other country in the EU is doing this because this isn’t going to work. Its going to annoy people again this govt is going after ordinary people trying to go about their lives. Speed vans were brought in to help people slow down. They were only to be used in black spots. Then in a move to increase money was brought in, the areas were expanded and the vans don’t park in the black spots anymore. I’m all for road safety but when you have a govt that refuses to make safety technology mandatory on cars and make the safe cars cheaper its stinks to another revenue generation move to make more money under the guise of road safety. If they want people to buy in there has to be agreement with drivers. This isn’t a dictatorship but the current govt act like it.
@Washpenrebel: It has been proven several times that GoSafe costs more to operate that the revenue it generates. Look it up – it’s not rocket science. The figures from go slow days show how little money they bring in.
Regarding the movement of vans – they move to high risk areas or those which have recently had an incident. It’s to avoid having a specific area become a black spot.
Common trend is drivers who complain about GoSafe vans are the same sort that either slam the brakes when they see one because they’re oblivious to the actual speed limit or they just speed everywhere anyway because they’re idiots. Speeding is pointless and you gain mere seconds on majority of journeys.
If you obey the limits there’s literally no reason to complain about a van parked on the side of the road.
@Tadhg Sebastian: Not true, where I live there is 3 speed vans. All parked up on Non blacks spots where no accidents occur/straight roads. It’s just a cash cow.
@Tadhg Sebastian:
They put the vans in high risk areas ??? Are you for real ???
One example, and I can think of many…. Between the big roundabout at the airport and the M1 is a short, straight stretch of dual carriageway. Not a residential area at all so never any pedestrians around. No other roads joining so no junctions at all. Perfectly safe and I’d bet my house there has never been an accident on it. It’s a regular spot for a speed van well in off the road so it can’t be seen. The limit is 60, when it should be 100. There is one speed sign at the very start of it. It must rake in thousands every year but has feck all to do with safety. If you can’t see this money racket for what it is you are incredibly naive.
@Washpenrebel: erm, other EU such as France and Spain are very much dropping speed limits
On the non-EU side of things the UK is also dropping speed limits in many areas, Wales is doing it on a massive scale.
Why?
because slower speeds save lives.
If you hit a pedestrian at 60km/hour, they have a 90% chance of death
If you hit a pedestrian at 30km/hour, they have a 3% chance of death
Think of speeding fines as a idiot tax, if you are stupid enough to break the law you pay the tax. Don’t want to pay the tax? Don’t be stupid.
@Martin Bishop: Perhaps a better course of action would be to once again teach children and adults the green cross code, because pedestrians that are not walking in front of motor vehicles without looking or walking along roadsides without a hi-vis vest or light and acting like they are immortal have a 0% chance of death.
This will not end well if implemented…in fact I would say it is now entering the enough is enough category
@Brian Deadly: I think that motorists should refuse to pay road tax in protest at the way we are being treated.
@Joe Kelly: good idea, Joe, as there’s no such thing as Road Tax so nobody should pay it.
You do need to pay a tax for owning and using a Motor vehicle tho.
@Ciaran Foster: motor tax, road tax it’s all the one, just don’t pay. By the way the money raised for that round disc on your windscreen is supposed to be for road maintenence.
@Joe Kelly: its not all the one, there is no such thing as road tax.
You can’t just make up names and claim its the same thing.
But if you want to insist on calling it something else perhaps we should call it idiot driver tax?
@Martin Bishop: my you are an obnoxious little man
The accidents aren’t caused by the drivers who stick to the current speed limits. They are caused by drivers who overtake in dangerous positions, with no view of the road ahead or even just overtake with oncoming traffic and force the other driver to pull in on the hard shoulder. You see it every day on irish roads.
100%
@declan benson: maybe give way when a car is behind you, indicate and let them go.
@Spudgesh: Good idea. Blame the situation on the driver who is driving safely and not the one who’s overtaking dangerously.
@: So this is the main cause of road deaths in Ireland? Cool story.
@: Slow drivers are just as dangerous as speeding drivers. Ever stuck in a line of traffic because the Yaris up front is doing 50kmh in an 80 zone and the driver behind in the micra won’t overtake even when it’s perfectly safe to do so!!
We’ll be too busy watching the speedometer when we should be watching the road.
Could consider getting an electric scooter they go faster than 30kmp/h and no sitting in traffic, no stopping for red lights, no tax no insurance. Be home in quarter the time
This will cause a lot of problems and deaths while at the same time not fixing a single thing.
@Thomas Reddy: Someone in govt must have a mate who makes road signs. Lots of money to be made here!
@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: and traffic lights!! In many places into 1st gear, move off, maybe 2nd … traffic light!!! Rinse and repeat.
@Thomas Reddy: how will driving slower caused more deaths?
@Martin Bishop: Making other people go slower will just make other people go faster and take more risks to try and get past them. There is already no time for families in this country and adding an extra 15 minutes onto someone’s day while travelling into work won’t make them go slower, in the end they’ll just drive faster to try and overtake the people driving at 30kph.
It’s not just motorists that are at fault, pedestrians/cyclists etc don’t even look for on coming traffic while crossing the road anymore
@Mike Brady: Only one of these kills people you smoothbrain.
@Thomas Ryan:Maybe not, but they cause the accidents.
@Mike Brady: no pedestrian or cyclist looks where they are going? All of them? Including you?
Nobody will be driving around at 30km/h, the government are fooling themselves. Totally unenforcable and unnecessary, if people wanted to go at a snail’s pace they wouldn’t be driving.
We already have the fifth lowest road deaths per country in the world. What problem are they trying to solve exactly?
Our men and boys commit suicide at three times the rate of our roads deaths, where is the crisis management for this problem? Pieta House runs on donations ffs.
@troolll balonius: It’s because the government don’t actually care about the number of road deaths or suicide deaths. I suspect this is more to do with reducing emissions and car use.
What absolute nonsense. We are going backwards in this country in so many ways…
@Regular John: and they’ll keep going with this carry on until we are driving backwards!
And in the 10 years 15kph will be the new max. Maybe try actual Garda enforcement of the existing laws instead. It doesn’t matter what punitive laws you put in place…if some drivers know the chance of being caught is almost non-existent, they will always risk it despite the harsh punishment.
Ah but will those limits apply to car parks in Galway?
Fix the FN roads.Waiting 50 years for the Cork to Limerick motorway
So that means longer commuter times for those of us traveling to work on country roads, 20 more minutes per 100 km journey when obeying the new speed limits.
The working day gets longer ss do tailbacks at bottlenecks.
Great idea …
@Athena: Cars cost 10k more here than everywhere else (self-inflicted), no new trains, no transport plan outside of 2km area in the city where there are all the necessary ingredients. The irony when they try to lower the speed on roads that already have hour-long tailbacks. Anyway, we continue.
Complete over reaction as usual by some bureaucrat who isn’t informed. What % of deaths are caused at less than 50 km/hr ?. I’d say a very low % and not caused by many people who are licensed to drive. I’d say this % is probably on the decrease if the bureaucrat looked at the statistics. I would think that the recent increase in deaths was due to higher speeds. Focus on the higher speeds that cause the problems. Licensed drivers can react very quickly at 50 km/hr. Next it will be the man with the flag !!!. Automation is on the way and cars are becoming much safer. What a stupid proposal !! Remember some bureaucrats got rid of our trams in the past and we then had to start from scratch. Bet the old trams did more than 30 km/hr. Will the new speed limit also apply to the new trams ?
And in this Nannie state we continue to let the 1% dictate what the rest should do! lots of little people behind the curtain pulling all the strings ;-(
And if accidents remain unchanged?? Reduce the speed until we’re driving like The Flinstones.
Why not Go back to the auld days, and have some one go in front riding a bike and ringing the bell to warn people…. FFS…..at least I travel really rural roads and have never seen a guard or speed van near them, not enough traffic to be profitable
@hi from heaven: D’oul Donkey would always go at the appropriate pace. Rarely sodar, never gallop, just stroll along and get home safe
I just can’t wait for the next election. This lot are gone bonkers. They want to dictate and control every aspect of our lives.
It’s been a government of
Fines
Penalties
Taxes.
Solutions for nothing.
Nothing in the country works properly
Garda non existent
Roads in diabolical state
Housing disaster
Hospitals a shambles
Homeless crisis
Cost of living crisis
Energy Costs ridiculous
Insurance costs ridiculous
They are actually clueless
Not dealing with what actually concerns the Citizens that have elected them.
They will be slaughtered at the next election.
Can’t come fast enough.
Get rid of them and a bit of sanity back in the Country
@Max Cooper: you think the next government of FF and SF is going to be any different? Lol, dear oh dear…
@eoin fitzpatrick: Who knows, you don’t, certanly this lot need to sit the next one out. Whoever forms the next government gets a shot, they should get turfed out if they don’t deiver.
@Max Cooper: I have to agree…is there any good news these days
@Thesaltyurchin: no that’s the worry. What coming behind them is worse.
.
Too many distractions, new computerised dash, phones , allowing people who come from certain countries to drive on their license with out doing the Irish driving test which is completely ridiculous
@BRENDAN O’CONNELL: Have you ever been abroad and refused car hire because you had an Irish driving license?
This government are less than useless
Every single day on rural roads,dangerous overtaking against oncoming traffic or before blind bends,crest of hills etc. Overtaking at 120kmph in 100kmph zones will now become 100kmph in 80kmph. 80 in 60,50 in 30 etc. It’s the appalling behaviour of these dangerous drivers that needs to be tackled,bringing out a speed gun is simply not enough.
@Larry Betts: Ridiculous point at the sky type reaction. Octogenarians rolling into slipway walls, single-car collisions, literally haven’t read of one instance that you refer to in the context of road deaths.
@Thesaltyurchin: I’ve yet to see any kind of analysis of the causes of road accidents but it is hard to believe that widespread overtaking with no visibility of oncoming traffic is not a significant cause.
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: Widespread overtaking… is that happening? I drive everyday on a number of road types and would be at the other end of the scale in terms of opinion, I just don’t see it, perhaps the poster has eyes on every ‘hill-crest’ in the country but I doubt it, just another wild swing. ‘Hard to believe’ its the right way to put it.
@Thesaltyurchin: I see it pretty much every time I go out in the car, along with corner cutting which sometimes causes me to slam on the brakes to avoid a low speed head on collision.
@Thesaltyurchin: I do a long drive down the country every Wednesday. I encounter at least 3-5 instances of horrifyingly dangerous driving each and every week. Even on dual carriageways where a car on the hard shoulder will suddenly pull out in front causing you to swerve,cars suddenly stopping on main routes to enter a junction with no indicators. At least once a week being forced onto the hard shoulder as a car overtakes coming towards you. Being cut off at roundabouts as a car in the middle lane drives across the front off you. Slowing down from 80 to 50 entering a village,overtaken by someone,who then turns off a few hundred metres up the road.
@Larry Betts: Sounds horrifying, I don’t see any of that, (live in rural west Wicklow, and work in the city) and I’m on a variety of roads daily, certainly the rural roads are more sketchy as there’s a variety of bulk industries on them with us but generally I see some speedsters trying to get around the road ‘regulators’, both of whom are as bad as each other. Perhaps it’s just peoples ‘perceptions’, which for me at least cannot be trusted.
Well that’s a sneaky way to reel in a few bob from speeding tickets it will be a disaster
The speed limits are the same as they always have been, how can they be to blame for the rise in road deaths? Junior cert level scientific deduction tells us it can’t be.
What about the massive cuts in funding to road maintenance implemented by this government? Ditches overgrown, roads in disgraceful condition, unfinished or shoddy repair works etc etc.
The main road near me has been covered in loose chippings for most of the year with no markings to speak of what so ever, for miles. It was just abandoned halfway through repairs 3 months ago, didn’t even bother to take away the road works signs.
Now don’t get me wrong, there are definitely rural roads where 80km is insanity and could probably be set to a 60km or even lower limit. But not all roads are equal and a blanket reduction in speed is a lazy and uninspired idea that doesn’t actually address the rise in road deaths.
Look at how speed limits are set in places like New Zealand, each road has its speed limit set according to the conditions of that road.
It’s insane that all rural roads are 80km by default with no distinction between a wide and straight road with a good surface or a winding narrow laneway with grass growing up the center with barely room for two cyclists to pass each other let alone 2 cars or a tractor.
But it’s just as insane to reduce them all to 60.
@Karl O’Toole: Our roads are in far better condition than they were historically – anyone who has been driving for a few decades can confirm this. Drive across the border to NI if you want to experience really bad maintenance – it used to be the other way around.
There is no rise in road deaths but reducing speed always has a positive impact here.
If they are looking into reducing noise levels I would suggest banning suped up cars. The decibel levels from these cars can be enormous and heard from quite a distance. Especially in built up areas.
The Greens got to go…
30km is a good thing in around towns etc, it will give all the people driving and texting a little more time to react than when they drive and text at 50km.
How much will cost the fact to change all the signs ? What are the hidden costs ? Is that their answer ?
Punish everybody for the fault if some ?
I am sure that it is beginning to dawn on a specific age group that their brand new secular State is as unnecessarily intrusive than anything that came before.
Linking deaths to human behaviour beyond what is reasonable is a murky affair. The idea that human behaviour is necessary to control the weather exposes an electorate who are not serious, so why shouldn’t politicians overreach with imperatives when they gained experience from covid imperatives. They mistake fairness for subservience and that is at the core of all domineering states.
@Gearoid O’Ceilleachair: you’re right of course, people should be able to drive their cars as they wish, whether they’re on a motorway or in a Tesco carpark in Galway
A load of nonsense. I for one will drive at an appropriate speed. This nanny state can choke on my fumes.
Speeding is endemic in this country. Who’d be brave enough to walk on rural roads or let their kids cycle on city streets.
It’s simple, it’s all about the money
I love cars, always will and I’ve always had a fun car as well as my daily, usually a Japanese car from the 90s which I take along to shows or cars and coffee meetings or just for weekend drives.
Having said that, drivers in Ireland are amongst the most self entitled group in society – any hint of speed limits, any discussions on cycle lanes or any advice on slowing down to save fuel and the absolute ‘I’ll do what I want’ ranting out of them would give an aspirin a headache!
Seriously folks, don’t speed and you won’t have a problem, it’s not rocket science. Average speed cameras in Dublin will inconvenience nobody because the aggregate traffic speed is so slow anyway. We all know roads where a 100km limit is utterly inappropriate and stretches where 80kph isn’t really sensible either.
Whining and Whinging constantly just makes you a misery, time to grow up really.
@Wombleman: you haven’t met the German drivers and their lobbies, any discussion of even introducing a nationwide limit of 130 kph on the Autobahn is met with outrage
@Wombleman: Nail on the head Wombleman, This is what being responsible looks like, good man.
This is ridiculous, nobody can go at that speed and maintain it.
It’s not even the point. This is to force people not to take a car.
I cannnnnt wait for the next election!!
Creating bottlenecks and speed corridors is not the answer to driver behaviour, or impaired driving due to substances. This experiment will become a cash cow for speed vans and checkpoints, while doing little to impact fatalities. Twice in the last fortnight I was nearly in very bad accidents on rural 80km roads due to impatient and erratic drivers that would not patiently stay behind a large jeep and trailer pulling a heavy load. It would be very much worth getting the data for how many fatal accidents occur on roads with poor sightlines and continuous white lines. Speed is always given as the main cause of fatalities on Irish roads both more often than not there is a combination of factors, trying to address one and ignoring the others masks a problem but does not solve it.
Buried the lead by saying “average speed cameras will lead to reduced emissions”. That’s the entire point. Also rural places harder to get to making them less desirable than urban to move to. No more money spent on roads to make them safer because they can act as a speed deterrent in their slowdown state.
War on Cars.
If that does happen, they’d better force fuel prices to lower. They will be forcing us to pay for more petrol, because the rides will be longer! They should also make school start later, as it will take longer for people to get to school. I think how early some students have to get up to go to school five days a week should be considered a form of abuse, especially since the brains of teenagers are proven to have a different (and later than adults) circadian rhythm.
Throw back into miles per hour. Brainwashed, nanny state, a joke.
Won’t save a life and won’t be I forced.
A joke
@Spudgesh:
It’s not about saving lives, they’ll still hide speed cameras on the safest of roads and make a fortune.
Go out in your car today and drive at 30kmh, and see how ridiculously slow it is. Car sales will drop, and jobs will be lost across the board. This government is clueless.
@paddy fc: I do that every time I drive past the Garda station in Tralee.
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: it must be in your tractor
@paddy fc: Nope 1.6 diesel pug 307.
Global CO2 levels are a result of temperature increases globally And not the cause. We are all being gaslit. Global temps have been increasing at a similar rate since 1750. The 12th – 18th centuries are referred to as a mini ice age. They were the coldest temperatures for 10,000 years. We started measuring from the lowest point. Temperatures 2000 years ago were warmer than now. CO2 is not the master regulator of global temps. Everyone relax.
Sure but that’s not the real problem. Fossil fuels are getting steadily more expensive in money and energy to extract as the easy sources run dry. Soon enough they won’t be a viable energy source at which point they have effectively run out.
We need the whole world to be weaned off the oil teat well before that happens.
Ireland has no fossil fuel reserves so it makes a lot of sense for us to ditch them as soon as possible.
Russia will probably be the last to run out, I really hope the US have ditched them before they start considering fighting Russia for them.
Yellow plates won’t follow these laws. Many drivers of high end cars won’t bother to either. The more expensive the car, generally speaking, the faster it goes. Hence why many of these cars are purchased.
Most of the recent deaths on the roads were in cars driven by local people.
Reducing speed limits is just window dressing.
Better driving tests, a night test, even a wet test, perhaps every 5 or 10 years, and a gradient system for driving licences which say what engine size you can drive should be looked at. But the car lobby don’t like the latter.
Reducing speed limit will work for a while, but like the NCT, only for a while. Because the real issue is not being tackled.
Plenty of money though with fines, which is probably the real reason for reducing speeds.
This is an ill-thought out plan, which will do nothing for road safety, but will lead to an increase in non-compliance, which will be used as a reason for more speed checks, which will (still) do nothing for road safety. The reasons for road deaths are inattention (phones, tiredness), driver error (poor driver education, , and a small cohort of drivers (probably less than 3%) who take huge risks (more than 25% above speed limit, alcohol, drugs). If you are a ‘safe’ driver in Ireland who mostly never exceeds the speed limit, observes the rules and tries to do a good job when driving, and you think that these changes won’t affect you, then you’re wrong. Make no mistake, this nonsense will mean too-low limits being applied (whether by accident or design) to a lot of roads, which will make law-breakers out of a lot more drivers when the actual road conditions, or their driving style, hasn’t changed. Attitudes amongst many drivers do need to be changed, but not in relation to speed alone, but in relation to driving in general – people think that because they have passed their test, they can drive, and never need to think about it again, and that because they are experienced, they can get away with a little light phone use, or not slowing enough for that blind bend, because they’ve been around it hundreds of times, and there weren’t any hazards there before… We need some real driver-policing, not zombie speed-checks and lower limits.
This will not work epically on rural country roads where people woll be stuck behind agricultural machinery who will be travelling at speed limit and cars will take chances overtaking. Also the limits will not fix the accident either will the Euro tax gathering vans as its the education of road users decent roads not watery tar and chippings plaster over cracks needed.my wife and I used to do road safety days with transition year students in Tipperary for years bringing in victims of accidents their families to talk about their experience. Same with Gardi fire service and paramedics. We did it because we seen trend and it brought down fatalities and serious accidents in our area.
So bring road safety into school ciriculum
Obviously the camera traps are not making money so drop the limit increase the income
Does this speed limit apply to Electric scooters and bikes?
It was a golden opportunity to have the speed limit at 30kmh nationwide but they have missed the chance.
@Stanley darsh: Imagine driving the M7 for 4 hours. All the lovely Irish people sleep soundly in LaLa land!… LOL!
Another nail in the coffin of freedom. Don’t eat meat, don’t travel, stay in your 15 minute cities, make sure to take your unwanted medical interventions when the government tells you to, maintain 6 metres distance from your fellow human, cover your face, accept total loss of independence, 1 flight if you’re lucky per year. 2+2=5 if the media tells you so. Thought police deciding what you can speak about. In a few years the only truly free space you will have is between your two ears. But keep the people doped up on trash tv, celebrity culture, keep them distracted with sport and sensational news stories. Look here, don’t look there. Eat ze bugs, you will own nothing an be happy by 2030, although the “happy” part will be subjective, and you will not be the decider. This country badly needs a revolution. But our feminised male population of 2023 will do nothing. Pathetic.
Pure revenue spinner
Another absolute waste of Tax Payers money that will solve nothing…this shower of incompetent wasters have to go
Another revenue collecting exercise
@Brian Keelty: Oh it’s a hell of a lot more sinister than that unfortunately.
Some very bad drivers on the roads here. How they pass a test I will never know. No lights, running red lights, speed when no need to get a few car lenghts. Not to mention other nationals as such. Would like to see it, I don’t think so.
Gov’t wants more control of your lives. They can’t help it. Keep voting the same way and you will get same results & more road regulation. They want to dominate and restrict u in all aspects of you life. Most are absolute bums that failed in the real world and never worked a day in their lives and love controlling others.
Soon they will want a spread sheet from each individual to know what you ate for breakfast lunch and dinner. That’s if u have the income to afford all three meals.
@Timo: Good man, at least somebody here is awake.
Along the quays in Dublin 30kph is aspirational.
As long as you have the capacity to read a road sign and control the speed of a vehicle this will not be an inconvenience.
So, in 12 months’ time, when these measures are proven to NOT deliver the improvement they are looking for, then what ? Will they undo the new limits ? Will they try the opposite way – to increase them from the current ones – as an equal experiment to see if that works ?
Speed limits are not the cause, and mucking around with them is not the solution.
Just more stupid speed limits for people to ignore. How about instead teaching people to drive properly, have people do regular refresher road tests, do a compulsory drive in project to get parked cars off the streets instead of making people pay a ridiculous amount of money and go through a full planning process.
When will they start enforcing pedestrian and cyclist existing rules ? as currently it is unusual to see a pedestrian use pedestrian crossing or cyclist use cycle lanes.
Of course since the only enforcement of these new limits is magical thinking (ie ‘personal responsibility’) nothing will change, except the randomised speeding fines we all get once every 5-6 years (I’ve had one in the last decade) will be more expensive.
So… Taxes go up marginally, and even then the rich with their high powered cars won’t even notice.
The poor – as always – will suffer the most.
But that’s rhe way in Ireland.
What’s it going to cost to replace these signs?, and until these signs are replaced will the speed limit on “old” signs be the limit?
Can’t wait to have all the impatient drivers on my tail as I’m tipping along at the speed limit.
Every morning going to work on an 80k road I have cars overtaking me at high speed and at dangerous parts of the road.
If I thought reducing the limits would save lives I’d be all for it.
How much will this cost to change & enforce it when they cant even enforce current speed limits…
What a total mess
All this will do is infuriate drivers and cause accidents with people going too slow. Crazy.
With the growing numbers of cyclist and electric scooters using our roads, it is time that users make a contribution which motorists have always been taxed for.
This might recoup some of the costs already spent by our Department of transport preparing all our towns and cities for their use.
@Brian Mc Mahon: Road wear is proportional to the fourth power of vehicle rate (weight * weight * weight * weight for the mathematically challenged) so it takes 160,000 75kg bicycles to do the damage that one 1500kg car does.
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: I’m glad you brought that up. Given that EV’s in particular are up to 30% heavier than their petrol/diesel equivalents, shouldn’t EV’s therefore be made to pay for their damage ?
Not forgetting of course that the kintic energy of an EV, travelling at the same speed as a petrol/diesel, will, because of that huge weight penalty actually be MORE likely to cause serious injury (or worse) .
@John Moylan: Probably, but if we introduced weight based charging then 40 Tonne HGVs would have to pay 160,000 times as much as 2 Tonne EVs.
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: Oh and the multiplier for a 30% weight increase would be 2.6 which is pretty much irrelevant if we made goods vehicles pay by weight.
@Steve O’Hara Smith.: it has nothing to do with road wear.
We’re trying to lower road deaths.
More cycling and scooters using our roads and sometimes foot paths. What’s good for motorbike users is good for all.
You totally missed my point.
@Brian Mc Mahon: You seemed to be wanting to discourage cycles and scooters by charging them.
I was just pointing out why they aren’t charged, essentially because they add nothing to road maintenance costs.
Complete ban on driving if they are serious about curtailing road deaths and injury
Biggest offenders in urban areas will/are CIE buses, no speed limiters on buses and no tachographs for drivers, unions having none of it!
@Nickb:
When you consider the amount of buses on the road I think you’ll find their safety record is exemplary. The bus drivers are among the most skilled and experienced drivers on the road, especially the Bus Eireann drivers.
The government are deluded that this is going to happen. Its an impulse to speed .
Reasons would be
1)Slow drivers or plant machinery
2)impatience
3)Decent roads(but its madness as people speed on bad roads anyhow)
4)If helen mcentee and drew did their jobs their be more guards on the road
5)You can appeal points in courts and delay for while hoping other points come off your licence by the time the appeal comes around!!!!!!
6)Imcopentent drivers thinking they are F1 drivers
Like it’s tough on families that lost love 1′s in accidents, but what is the real reports how these happen.Is it drugs,drink,mobile handling, etc………
Big payday for PWS signs.
As usual I’ll stick to the limit and there will be a string of traffic behind me, driving up my rear and over taking of multiple vehicles. Apparently, driving slower is safer, well it is in theory only.
Has anyone tried driving at 30km/h? You’re barely out of second gear.
Add fixed cameras everywhere like the rest of Europe. Cameras should be in every bus lane throughout the city and at all red lights. And then start reduce speeds in built up areas. But let’s be real. The devastating crashes are happening on the roads outside the city’s that are set at 80-100km and even the people driving on them know it’s far too high for the state of the road. Drive anywhere outside the cities and don’t say you’ve never been like “HOW is this road speed limit 80km”. Also how about we teach the youth during their lessons on actual motor way driving. People haven’t a clue and are left to learn that themselves, hogging the right lane, can’t merge, can’t properly and safely overtake when needed.
No problem with this just engage Autopilot in the Tesla and it obeys the speed signs. Easy peasy.
Also nice relaxing drive no stress or hassle.
You can see where their going with this…reduce speed BUT INCREASE the fines for speeding…Another money making exercise for the Exchequer, or they would reduce the speed limit but leave the fines as they are now
The only people that are both proposing and supportive of this type of poorly thought out knee jerk, being seen to do something lunacy, are people that never actually have to drive anywhere.
I did a test in my town driving from my estate down main street and out the fare end. 30-35kph was my speed just due to the road environment. 30 will be absolutely sensible to apply. All those that say they can’t drive at 30, that’s you not the car, cop on.
How many extra trucks, vans etc will this add to the roads to make up the lost efficiency?
Great news, Now we just need a way of reporting drivers breaking the limit. too many people cant control their vehicles speed.
Where is the science to show this is necessary or that it will work?
If detection and application of penalties is not happening it doesn’t matter what the speed limit is.
Most accidents are caused by bad driving, speed, in most instances only a n influence in the case of proper driving!
This is an Aprils fool joke surely. I see Go Safe vans hiding on the M50 at the gantry at rush hour regularly (100Km) and on the N4 at Liffey valley on a 80km road. What is this doing for road safety answer zilch. Bog roads in rural Ireland have 100kn and 80km limits and are more dangerous that M50 or N4.
Never once have I seen Gardaí enforce the bus lane on the slip road from the N4 onto the M50 northbound at Liffey Valley but hey the Go Safe police at the instructions of Gardaí the M50 and everyday there is congestion because of this. Get real and police the roads properly and put cameras in bus lanes like every other modern country.
So bus journey times into town will take longer ..
all cars in ireland should be limited to 100 kph,except emergency vehicles.all persons caught continuously speeding should have their vehicle confiscated. surely this would be more effective than punishing the thousands of safe drivers that are currently on our roads.
@tom byrne: Motorways are 120 Tom and that’s a reasonable speed for the quality of the road. Agree with you about seizing serial offenders cars. Might help restock the Garda Traffic Core.
They should just re-introduce the Red Flag Act and be done with the farce.
There goes any chance of getting to the fire station within the 5 minutes
This is good news. I see on a lot of back roads its 80 and there is no way you’d do 80 on them roads. Well people do but it shouldn’t be .
Astonishing that there are any crashes at all in this country with so many “ good “drivers about.
At least a hundred people on this discussion lecturing and pontificating about what needs to be done to sort out all the “ bad “ drivers.
Hopefully some day one of these bad drivers will post on a discussion like this so we can get their perspective.
Oh but wait ! . Who are all the bad drivers I certainly don’t know any everybody I know is a really good driver ranting and raving about all those other people.
Strange that !
@John Smith: The amount of crashes, compared to the number of drivers in Ireland, and km driven on a national scale is very small, which proves that it is only a small percentage of dangerous, careless (and some plain unlucky) drivers who are the issue. Too-low speed limits affect all drivers, and lead to more drivers ignoring the obviously bad ones, and then generally discounting the importance of all speed limits. The focus should be on the driving habits of the outliers, not trying to harass the vast majority. If there was proper enforcement of all aspects of driving, a lot of people would suddenly find that they are in the outlier group, but are unaware of it, or don’t care.
Maybe reduce the rural speed limit where most of the accidents are
@Brian Dennehy: proof required, because frankly, you’re just regurgiting the Spin.
We all need to own road safety. Too much finger pointing and blaming other drivers, speed limits, road conditions etc – look in the mirror and take some ownership of this. Driving slower is not such a big deal and is mostly more efficient, more planet friendly and less likely to end in delays.
What’s the point if its not enforced? If the current laws were enforced there wouldn’t be so much danger on the roads. I can’t remember the last time I saw traffic police doing police work on the roads, that’s in the capital city. Its lawlessness out there, people regularly and casually breaking laws because there are no consequences and they know it.
I guess it is a good time to invest into a good radar detector and jammer and show a big middle finger to the unelected officials who push this BS.
Guess it is a good time to invest into a good radar detector and jammer and show a big middle finger to the unelected officials who pushed this BS
Has FFG dropped Leo’s call for sharing driver data across government departments and outside agencies such as insurers, or are they hiding that now. What benefits has this to road safety????
Love to know who gets the contract for all the new speed sign purchases/installation and the rest……..not holding my breath.
Great news! I’m so looking forward to spending an extra half hour daily commuting to and from work. On the plus side, once I load up my work tools I can push the car from A to B and back thereby saving a fortune in fuel and doing my bit for mankind.
The Government should make a better effort to enforce the current speed limits before introducing new ones.
If they introduce unreasonable speed limits in Dublin, most people will ignore them and that will bring the law into disrepute, which is a really bad thing.
Insisting that all Dubliners drive at less than 30 kilometres an hour is clearly ridiculous, and it makes all Irish laws ridiculous.
Really bad!
Late night single vehicle collisions, pedestrians stepping out into traffic, you don’t need to be a genius to add 2 and 2…
Any government that implements this is going to turn the public against them. We cant enforce the current speed limits and 30kph limit is quite hard to drive at on open roads. so the average driver will be made a criminal. Scooters and bikes will be overtaking cars, until they crash into cars and then sue for damages etc Nanny state
you have push bikes passing you out with new speed rules
Because of a few aggre ssive idio ts, or bad drivers we will be walking soon!
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