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A TURKISH COURT has sentenced leading activist Osman Kavala to life in prison on controversial charges of trying to topple the government that had already seen him jailed without a conviction for more than four years.
The panel of three judges also jailed seven other defendants for 18 years each on the charge of aiding the attempt to overthrow then-prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s government during large-scale protests in 2013.
Yesterday’s ruling drew swift condemnation from some of Turkey’s main allies, as well rights campaigners – some of whom emerged from the packed Istanbul courtroom in tears.
Washington said it was “deeply troubled” by the “unjust” conviction.
“The United States is deeply troubled and disappointed by the court’s decision,” US State Department spokesman Ned Price said in a statement.
Germany said the 64-year-old intellectual and campaigner must be “freed immediately”, while two leading European parliamentarians who coordinate ties with Ankara said the “regrettable” ruling showed there was “little to no EU perspective for the current Turkey”.
The bloc’s chief diplomat, Josep Borrell, condemned the sentence for ignoring orders for Kavala’s release from the European Court of Human Rights.
“Today, we have witnessed a travesty of justice of spectacular proportions,” said Amnesty International’s Europe director Nils Muiznieks.
‘Judicial assassination’
The Paris-born philanthropist told the court by video link from his high-security prison near Istanbul that he viewed the entire process as a “judicial assassination”.
“These are conspiracy theories drafted on political and ideological grounds,” Kavala told the court moments before the sentence.
The marathon hearing has been gnawing on Turkey’s strategic but tempestuous ties with its main Western allies since Kavala’s unexpected arrest in October 2017.
Kavala was then best known as a soft-spoken businessman who was spending part of his wealth to promote culture and projects aimed at reconciling Turkey and its arch-nemesis Armenia.
But Erdogan portrayed him as a leftist agent of the Hungarian-born US billionaire George Soros and accused him of using foreign money to try and overthrow the state.
“We can never be together with people like Kavala,” Erdogan declared in 2020.
Alternating charges
Kavala was one of tens of thousands of Turks who were either jailed or fired from their jobs in purges that followed a bloody coup attempt against Erdogan when he was already president in 2016.
But the seemingly arbitrary nature of the alternating charges filed against Kavala made him a symbol for rights groups – as well as Western governments – of Erdogan’s increasing authoritarian streak in the second decade of his rule.
Kavala was first charged with funding the wave of 2013 protests that some analysts view as the genesis of Erdogan’s more authoritarian posture in the latter half of his 20-year rule.
A court acquitted and released him in February 2020 – only for the police to arrest him before he had a chance to return home to his wife.
Another court then accused him of being involved in the failed 2016 putsch.
Kavala ultimately ended up facing both sets of charges, but Monday’s ruling only covered the case stemming from the 2013 unrest.
His treatment has prompted the Council of Europe to launch rare disciplinary proceedings that could ultimately see Turkey’s membership suspended in the continent’s main human rights grouping.
Muted by Ukraine war
Turkey’s increasingly popular opposition leaders seized on the verdict one year ahead of a general election that could severely test Erdogan’s political survival skills.
Erdogan’s likely chief election rival, Kemal Kilicdaroglu of the secular CHP party, called the 2013 protests “a national movement dedicated to solidarity, peace, brotherhood and democracy”.
Istanbul’s politically ambitious opposition mayor, Ekrem Imamoglu, said the verdict “hurt the consciousness of millions of people”.
Yet the case’s importance to Turkey’s broader diplomatic standing has been somewhat muted by Russia’s two-month war in Ukraine.
Erdogan has been leveraging his relatively good ties with both Moscow and Kyiv to try and mediate an end to the conflict.
His efforts have already brought about a marked improvement in Ankara’s relations with Washington that could soon see Turkey supplied with US military jets.
Yesterday’s hearing was held in Istanbul at the same time as UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres met Erdogan in Ankara before travelling to Moscow and Kyiv later in the week.
“The secretary-general expressed his support for Turkey’s ongoing diplomatic efforts in relation to the war in Ukraine,” Guterres’s office said.
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My Lithuanian wife regularly gets told to “f#*k off back to Poland”
I got told to stop speaking Polish one night.
I was speaking Irish.
Everybody speaks the same language after twenty five pints.
Syrian refugees arriving in Europe should form an army which can be sent back to ‘liberate’ their home country, instead of ‘drinking coffee in the cafes of Berlin’ while western soldiers face ISIS, the Polish foreign minister has said.
Witold Waszczykowski made the suggestion on Sunday, the day after French president Francois Hollande said they would carry out a ‘merciless’ war against ISIS in retaliation for the Paris’ massacres.
Waszczykowski is part of Poland’s new right-wing, eurosceptic government, which was sworn in Monday, after signalling it would take a hard line on Europe’s biggest migrant crisis since World War II.
Let’s put this in context… many groups are targetted in this country.
Many people living in rural areas are afraid to answer the door at night.
I wonder when there will be a report on Culchiephobia?
Nigel, Im sure those who’d want to would have already. Are you interested in forcing them to go fight I wonder? If so, you are disgusting.
Phil. Lets talk about the real racism, and quit deflecting.
Why shouldn’t fit young men fight for their country?
Sean maybe you need to inprove your irish
Polish did the same thing during WWI. They formed Legions to fight for independence of Poland within Austro-Hungarian Army. I see where is Waszczykowski coming from.
Because it it not worth dying for?…. Fight for your country. What is is, WW1?
Fit young men should tell the war mongers what to do with themselves. Those who refuse to fight are pioneers of a warless war.
Just who the hell do you think you are?
Who cares what someone in the past done? People want to live, ….not die in some pointless war.
You shouls go & fight, if you want to tell others to. And dont give me any of your ‘fight for country’ patriot jingoism b*llS*$t.
All the red thumbs for disagreeing that all Syrian ‘Young Fit Men’ should go fight & die. lol
Should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Babysitter…. Waszczykowski is a right wing loon!
You see where he’s coming from? That a third party should go fight in a war???
lol …. the neck on ye.
‘Why shouldn’t young men fight for their country’
Millions fought for their countries and were led to pointless slaughter 100 years ago , following the same jingoistic lies.
I challenge anyone to answer me when I say ‘why the hell should they’?
Yis can red thumb, but not reply.
Journal.ie now “reporting” alleged incidents without any verifiable evidence whatsoever. What about all the incidents of threats and intimidation from foreigners to Irish people, is the journal going to do a “report” on that?
How about the call by Muslims for the statue of the Virgin Mary on O’Connell street to be taken down, go ask the Irish taxi drivers what they have to put up with, any “article” by the journal on that? Journal is not a collection of journalists it is a blog for pro-multicultural pushing hacks, nothing more. The one-sided propaganda pieces they push is evidence of that.
Orla, here’s a challenge to you. A challenge for once to actually do some journalism. Why don’t you go and do a report on who ENAR are and where they get funding from, why don’t you ask questions about why Irish media take a quango whose voice is promoted out of all proportion to their representative view of the Irish people.
Or how about this Orla, as your first step to becoming a real journalist, instead of multicult blogger. How about you do a report on multiculturalism in Ireland and Europe, what population of any country wanted it or had a proper debate about what we were signing on to, or what mass-immigration entailed, the consequences of it, remember we were told only a few thousand Poles would come. How about you do a report on the consequences for the native populations from population replacement to increased demand on our limited resources to a new source of crime, crime that would never have happened because the perpetrators, would never have been in the country to commit those crimes.
Eagerly await you asserting some real integrity, leaving your peer bloggers in the journal behind, while you initiate your steps into real journalism. Bon chance!
Claims like the above bring the clever antics of this fine fellow to mind:
“please help us, you must help, we are dying, very bad, you must come and give us things”
Poor Enrichers plead they are dying and being oppressed in Calais Enricher camp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYGmazGwa-g
Multicult…….I like where you are taking this..
More enrichment from Calais. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDd-ylXSIxU
Sounds like bay of pigs all over again
Agree 100%, Eric. It’d be interesting to see how many red thumb feens would be willing to fight if a similar situation developed here.
Eric is able to give his opinion precisely because European ancestors and most likely not his ( who either dodged war or found the risk-free jobs) laid their lives on the line to keep European territory for European people. One example, muslims tried several times to conquer Europe, at Tours-Poitiers they were stopped by Charlemagne, if they had not done that, the likelihood is we would not be here, or would now be bowing down to Mecca. But Eric says, to hell with those who fought for the freedoms we inherited, nice!!
The fact that you’re even able to share your views Eric is as a result of many people loosing their lives in conflict to give you the freedom you have today. Show some respect.
Priceless!
How do we know that Muslim society wouldn’t have trived in Europe? It is widely accepted that Islamic society was far more advanced that European up until the Mongol invasion.
Islamic society is doomed..it will disappear in a cataclysmic Armageddon between Sunni and Shi’a…
I certainly would! There is no way I would my daughters be taken as sex slaves or my son murdered and do nothing! Neither would I like to see this happen to others! And I am female!!
I My comment is in response to lazlos
Now that you seem to have stopped for breath Eric Foley, you should know that in Syria young men are conscripted but those who can afford to are running away from their duties. I am not in favour of conscription but it is the law in Syria. So as they flee their responsibilities they are is nobody to try to fight back against ISIS, to defend the women and children left behind and all the while Europe is expected to give them a new life despite the widespread austerity going on here. Is that a good enough answer for you. In answer to your question “who cares what people did in the past” well you should because had the people who fought for freedom seen you’re attitude they probably would not have bothered
This makes me physically sick to read . I’m a born and bred Dubliner , my husbands family are from Barbados and our son and our unborn daughter are mixed race . We’ve never had a bad experience as a mixed race family . We live in the UK now but come home every month because it’s important to us that our children know and feel that they are Irish , and I can honestly say we’ve only encountered positivity from people that we’ve met . I hope to god that it’s only a small poorly educated ignorant minority .
Joy, just make sure that when yer son is 16 and the best footballer in the world, he knows what country to declare for :) You keep enforcing that he is Irish..we don’t want him playing for England!
Listen he was born in the rotunda and he already knows who Paul McGrath is and Simon Zebo . So there is no doubt here that he’ll be playing for Ireland . I have it drilled in his head . Even his dad has told him he’s playing cricket for Ireland . Lol no pressure .
Dot Com 26 minutes ago # uh oh another racist Troll
Dot Com
@ic1uc12
Truth and honesty are scant resources.
In your case YES
Get a life dude
What a very tolerant you express Dingle, Not in any way racist.
Just who would I be trolling for exactly, Do tell.
*view
Dot Com. There’s a word for people who respond to stories about racism with unrelated stories of misdeeds by members of that “race” taken from a racist website.
Any idea what that word is?
Probably not. It’s racist. You’re a racist.
And an idiot.
Derek thanks for your opinion,
I wanted to show that racism is not confined to to one group as suggested in the article,The fact you wish to attack me for my view is as you say a bit racist, But I am happy you have the freedom to say what you think all the best.
“But I am happy you have the freedom to say what you think all the best.”
You are an sad Troll
anyway from your website of choice ..
there is this
Josh Duggar sued by porn star for sexual assault
Woman claims ‘assaulted to the point of causing her physical and emotional injuries’
Published: 9 hours ago
(USA Today) Sex scandals continue to haunt Josh Duggar, even while he’s in rehab.
According to People and Us Weekly, the fallen reality star is being sued by porn star and model Danica Dillon, who alleges that Duggar assaulted her while they were having consensual sex after he propositioned her in a Philadelphia strip club in March.
In Touch posted the legal documents pertaining to the lawsuit. Allegations include …
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/11/josh-duggar-sued-by-porn-star-for-sexual-assault/#CqkVifI0JiVhtiy9.99
Very good :)
As I said Dingle Be happy your Free I am,But maybe brush up on your tolerance level,
All the best.
So Fozz the reason multiculturalism is good is so that we can mine human beings to be used for sport? According to you the first thing you mention is how he will be great for sport. Btw, aren’t you being anti-white by automatically assuming that all mixed race people are good at sport while also asserting that the Irish people are not as capable as being as good at sport? The hypocrisy and contradiction of anti-Irish multiculturalists
Joy.. the “problem” is with finding incidents of racism (which you will find almost everywhere) many of these organisations will be defunct so it’s in their interest to find any!
Glad you have positive experiences!
Afrophobia??.Did you just make that word up?
It’s a fear of bushy hairstyles.
Aren’t all words “made up”?
Another factual report based on conjecture and hearsay. well done to the journal.
Exactly. The report didn’t mention one conviction. It’s all alleged. I’ve no doubt racism occurs. I just always take claims from groups like ENAR with a pinch of salt.
So your problem is this is just the victims saying they were insulted, and pictures of graffiti? What do you want, recorded audio of every insult and racist abuse? I’ve myself heard Dubliners shouting Monkey and making noises along those lines myself on Grafton Street at black people. Ain’t that uncommon.
Correction. Alleged victims.
Sertorius: Alleged idiot and racist.
I love you too x
No you don’t, I’m a muslim x
Some extremely hot Muslim women.
Well there are 1.3 billion of us
Imagine Sertorius didn’t have the internet?
Yeah..shocking ain’t it???
I have been told to bring back my South American ass out of the country just a couple of weeks ago. I am Italian, living in Ireland for the last 6 years and not having spent a single week without working, paying taxes or following Irish legislation, getting to know and respecting Irish cultures. I am very thankful to Ireland and Irish people for being treated so well and this single episode didn’t change my feelings towards this beautiful country and people.
It is one thing having small numbers of fellow Europeans here, which we had to some degree before mass-immigration, it is quite another having people who are not fellow Europeans, not from the same European family tree or not from the same western based value system, not only that but the numbers they are here, is another negative factor to add to that
Interesting fact; I did a genome test and found that I have a close biological connection to the Jewish population of Iran. As for your ‘European tree’ I suggest you take a look beyond the branch you’re sitting on and look closer at where your roots lead.
Uhuh, you put your faith in the bogus genealogical tests which have many scientific detracters and critics because of the way they interpret data or have results which are attributed to improper interpreted manipulated data
or how about this:
More About Genes – The Irish Really are a race apart
By Dr. Emmeline Hill
Men with Gaelic surnames coming from the west of Ireland are descendants of the oldest inhabitants of Europe.
http://www.insideireland.com/sample19.htm
Unique Celtic genes set us a race apart
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unique-celtic-genes-set-us-a-race-apart-26237637.html
So, who’s telling porkies? Be aware there is a certain prevalence of marxist multicult bias in academia now promoting certain anti white race view, which necessarily has people conducting non-science, skewing their results to meet their multicult objectives.
Trea Lynch, you should have read this before wasting your money on a bogus test:
A group of scientists now offers a public warning that these ancestry tests have little scientific backing, and are often so unreliable and inaccurate that they amount to “genetic astrology.”
DNA Ancestry Tests Are ‘Meaningless’ for Your Historical Genealogy Search
http://www.medicaldaily.com/dna-ancestry-tests-are-meaningless-your-historical-genealogy-search-244586
So I just thought I’d pop back and point out the hypocrisy of you dismissing all DNA research and then posting links to DNA research to prop up your far right racism. ‘Ancient Irish’ DNA is really a fascinating heritage but it did not spontaneously appear; go back far enough and we are all related.
Wasted money? Faith? Course not, it’s just a bit of interesting fun. That article warns against claims specific companies make about linking you to specific ancestors. I went for an international National Geographic project that makes no such claim and also follows the X and Y chromosome rather than autosomal DNA. Here’s a link https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/
But I doubt you’ll use it as apparently you know already that you sprang from the lions of Cuchulainn himself as he was writing Amhrán na bhfainn with Saint Patrick.
Trea Lynch, yea thought you might, because you didn’t read the last article I posted, which shows exactly how you are wrong in that assertion. If you had bothered to read it you would have noted the following:
It describes a difference between genealogical genetics as opposed to what you did, genetics of the individual trying to look into his genetic past. The report highlights the distinct difference between the 2.
“By analyzing the DNA variation among many individuals from different regions, scientists can test possible population history models and calculate how likely they are to explain specific DNA patterns. This can tell us about populations of people, but not much about individual genealogy.”
http://www.medicaldaily.com/dna-ancestry-tests-are-meaningless-your-historical-genealogy-search-244586
Now it is time you defined what you mean by “racism”?
You should also define what you mean by “far-right”, which is amusing seeing as I am not far-right nor left, being against capitalism and communism, whilst supporting socialism for those who truly need help.
You really should ask people what their beliefs are before fitting them with your own form of prejudiced judgmentalism. But then again, I expected nothing less than intolerance from a multiculturalist.
who says we are all related. For example only Europeans and Asians have certain DNA strands that Africans do not. The out of Africa theory is in no way sacrosanct with many scientists with different theories and as much evidence to support theirs as the OOA theory.
Let us say the OOA theory is correct, which it isn’t, then we still have differing races and ethnic groups as well as different cultures stemming from those branched off peoples. You are dismissing those now new formed peoples. Your view is rewinding evolution, going back in time, rather than appreciating the new differences and types that evolved.
Do you say the Maoris have no right to exist as a distinct ethnic people? Do you say they should intermix and miscegenate with the Nu-Zealanders and all of them should become mixed race? Well do you?
Intolerant multiculturalist???? Out of Africa theory is no way sacrosanct??? You sir are an absolute fool.Scarlet for you and your family and friends.
David G, have some intolerable and foolish facts then. Mutliculturalists are people who cannot tolerate to leave white people be left alone in their own native lands.
Re-Examining the “Out of Africa” Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids) in Light of DNA Genealogy
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=19566
Example of open-borders ENAR multiculturalist intolerance, led by ENAR head thought-commissioner Shane Curry, here they deny a peaceful right of Irish people to express their opposition to mass-immigration and right of assembly:
“Antifascist” lunatics shut down ‘Identity Ireland’ meeting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO64yw-3ONA
“Anti facist lunatics”? Ha! There’s words that obviously hitter himself coined. I love all these alternative research you link; same sort of ploy young earth creationists and climate change deniers use; dismiss the consensus of scientific community and then worship at the altar of some dodgy ‘academic’ with no real training in the field in question because it fits their agenda.
Let me give you a tip, rule number one of genetics…spread the genes! Obviously you’d much prefer if we were marrying our cousins and Ireland looked like that scene from deliverance; do you play the banjo by any chance?
How is it for the genome test ? Thinking about getting it done.
Trea, so you think it is ok to shut down the right of Irish people to a peaceful meeting to discuss mass-immigration and their right to peaceful assembly. I think we see more of what you are about now.
Regarding the academic material, you simply dismiss it as dodgy, yet it is from also from people with Ph.D’s etc and peer reviewed, even though the academic system is now nearly totally corrupt and useless. The Russians have provided proper academic research and evidence. I could say the same for your national geographic genealogy, provided by a private company known for it’s multicult bias and with a vested interest, tell us how that is not dodgy and so objective, what a laugh.
As for your “spread the genes” tip. Ireland and western Europe had enough variation and large enough population for genetic mutation to take place and thus not be a problem. Btw when Ireland was even more homogenous, we built the Boyne Valley astrogeological earth monuments before the pyramids. Furthermore you obviously have not heard of the genetic problems associated with breeding outside of your race. Your resort to attempted insult exposes you have no argument.
Don’t let the bigots get you down. We are glad to have you here.
No my attempt at insults is because you’re too easy. As for “race”…
“Data from many sources have shown that humans are genetically homogeneous and that genetic variation tends to be shared widely among populations. Genetic variation is geographically structured, as expected from the partial isolation of human populations during much of their history. Because traditional concepts of race are in turn correlated with geography, it is inaccurate to state that race is “biologically meaningless.” On the other hand, because they have been only partially isolated, human populations are seldom demarcated by precise genetic boundaries. Substantial overlap can therefore occur between populations, invalidating the concept that populations (or races) are discrete types.”
Genetics and race, Nature journal.
And yet despite your source from people who like to spin the results when even their own results contradict the nonsense they spout. Even the part you quote shows there are clear differences. Saying basically, oh race doesn’t exist but distinct repeatable genetic patterns unique to specific populations does…..hello…..race.
This shows exactly what I am talking about, modern academia carefully talking bs to spin what their own results are actually saying, this from the your own source
Genetic variation, race and medicine
Race and ethnicity have long been incorporated into medical decision-making processes. For example, physicians are typically aware that sickle-cell disease is much more common in African and Mediterranean populations than in northern European populations, whereas the reverse is true for cystic fibrosis and hemochromatosis. Although such distinctions are often clearest for single-gene diseases, perceived population differences influence the diagnosis and treatment of common diseases as well. There is evidence, for example, for population differences in response rates to drugs used in treating hypertension46 and depression47, 48.
Broad population categories can be discerned genetically when enough polymorphisms are analyzed, as seen in Figure 3, so these categories are not devoid of biological meaning. When several thousand or more polymorphisms are examined, individual populations, such as Japanese and Chinese, can be delineated34, and members of ‘admixed’ American populations, such as Hispanics, African-Americans and European-Americans, can be accurately identified34, 49.
http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1435.html
Scientists Call for End to Race Denial
“It is now recognized that despite the high degree of genetic similarities that bind humanity together as a species, considerable diversity exists at both individual and group levels…”
“The current moral position is a sort of ‘biological egalitarianism’. This dominant position emerged in recent decades largely to correct grave historical injustices… Biological egalitarianism is the view that no or almost no meaningful genetically based biological differences exist among human groups, with the exception of a few superficial traits such as skin colour. Proponents of this view seem to hope that, by promoting biological sameness, discrimination against groups or individuals will become groundless.”
“We also think that biological egalitarianism may not remain viable in light of the growing body of empirical data.
Many people may acknowledge the possibility of genetic diversity at the group level, but see it as a threat to social cohesion.”
“Given these geographically differentiated polymorphisms, it is possible to group humans on the basis of their genetic make-up. Such grouping largely confirms historical separation of global populations by geography. Indeed, a person’s major geographic group identity can be assigned with near certainty on the basis of his or her DNA alone”
http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2009/11/scientists-call-for-end-to-race-denial.html
I think you should learn to read rather than cut and paste. Genetic similarities based on geographic location is a product of periods of semi-isolation, where movement of people was limited but still prevalent enough to prevent distinct borders, groupings or race to occur. Meaning while I have genetic markers of ancient Irish DNA, I also have markers of genetic mutations that are common in groups in the Middle East. Now obviously it terrifies you that your genetic make up is not as monocultural as you would like so you embrace your confirmation bias and links blogs (shakes head sadly) and impose your own interpretation on real science. Fortunately your belief in a hierarchy of people (right wing definition since you asked) is largely rejected as another false and ugly ideology; unmoved by fact and exhibiting extreme xenophobia. It is an antipodal position to European thinking and has more in common with fundamental Islam in fact.
Well written trea. I fear there’s no point in arguing with this guy though. His ‘identity’ is so enmeshed in this bloodline ideology that logic, reason, science, etc don’t matter. Why anyone would red thumb you is beyond me, except that they just don’t like to hear the truth.
ignorance
I agree. A minority opinion I hope.
I hope so Pádraig. It is really shocking to hear people casually come out with the most racist comments that they believe to be absolute truths. It shows an appalling level of ignorance and close-mindedness
From reading journal comments over the last few days, i’d get the impression its not a minority. Some truly ignorant racist drivel being spouted and lots of green thumbs for it. Shocking
Violence against immigrants in South Africa has killed at least five people, resulted in attacks on businesses owned by foreigners and sent thousands to take refuge at temporary shelters.
A massive rally against xenophobia was held Thursday in Durban, the coastal city that has been the scene of much of the unrest. Migrants from Africa and South Asia have been the target of the violence, which was condemned by President Jacob Zuma.
The fighting in Durban left five people dead — two immigrants and three South Africans, CNN reported.
The charity Gift of the Givers told CNN that about “8,500 people fled to refugee centers or police stations this week because of the violence.”
I have no problems with any immigrant once they don’t harbour a disgusting ideology and are allowed into society in controlled numbers for jobs they can’t find an Irish or EU citizen to do.
and they will speak Irish – remember that :) :)
Yes they will Dingle, I’m sure you will be first in line to give them lessons as they disembark off their plane.
nah stevie you can bring them to your local pub and they can listen to your rantings
racism swings both ways but we only ever hear the one side all the time, its all disgraceful actions but while things like this get plastered on the media what about foreign nationals abusing Irish people but we cant report it to anyone…
I’m sure it’s all over the news the the parallel universe you seem to inhabit.
Have you tried reporting it to the Gardai Tom? Nobody has the right to abuse you.
Can people not express genuine fear that people from other countries come to Ireland to take advantage of overly generous welfare payments, without being branded a racist.
Do we have to take at face value that every black person who claims to be a subject of racist abuse is genuine and not merely playing the race card.
Good point.
Then you have people like Dil Wickremasinghe on Global Village who users the airwaves to make constant unsubstantiated claims about ‘RACIST IRELAND’.
Any time I listened to the programme I had to go and check the mirror to make sure there was no swastika on my forehead.
Gerry. You completely missed the point of the article. Wether it’s labelled racism or whatever the common label should be hatred. Your like leo varadkar launching an inquiry into the leak about a 93 yr old woman on a trolly instead of the issue itself.
If you think that anyone would willingly claim racism you’re very wrong. It’s not a joke, it’s not some sort of chant that people use to manipulate and get their own way. Racism is an incredibly humiliating and hurtful experience and it’s also embarrassing and painful. The last thing anyone wants to do is mock that kind of an experience. I’ve grown up here, went through school and unlike many other black Irish am adopted to two very white Irish parents, My father is a gaeilgeoir, and grew up in Galway. I love this country and it is mine, and the people here are my people. The last thing I would want to do or think is that my fellow man/woman is racists and to accuse them of such. In fact many times when I do face racism I dismiss it because it’s more hurtful to feel like Irish people would say or do something like that to me, simply because of how I look.Sadly one of Irelands issues around Racism reporting is that it’s NOT taken seriously and is dismissed just as you’re doing. Dismissing racism however and pretending it doesn’t exist only allows it to continue to breed and become a worse issue. These things need to be nipped in the bud and dealt with, so that in 20 years time if social unrest is the result, of social exclusion and resentment we won’t be saying “we should have done something much earlier”..
Thanks Elsa for your contribution to that discussion. Much appreciated.
This is truly awful and quite embarrassing for The rest of us ! Treating someone like that is disgusting and should have severe consequences!
How is it embarrassing for the rest of us? I don’t know any of these people and they don’t represent me in any shape or form. Disgusted yes,embarrassed no.
Exactly. What a brainless comment. Did you also take it upon yourself to be embarrassed when Joe o Reilly murdered his wife?
“Exactly. What a brainless comment. ”
Hmm no look in the mirror dude ..
Your comments / views on related issues are akin to Pamela Geller etc and oh yes while Pamela has a thing about Muslims she also thinks Obama is a secret Muslim, (because he is black ?)
And then Europe decided to invite millions of Muslims to settle in their countries. Most of those people don’t want to participate actively in bringing about the death of diners and concertgoers and soccer fans, but at a certain level most of them either wish or are indifferent to the death of the societies in which they live – modern, pluralist, western societies and those “universal values” of which Barack Obama bleats. So, if you are either an active ISIS recruit or just a guy who’s been fired up by social media, you have a very large comfort zone in which to swim, and which the authorities find almost impossible to penetrate.
And all Chancellor Merkel and the EU want to do is make that large comfort zone even larger by letting millions more “Syrian” “refugees” walk into the Continent and settle wherever they want.
http://www.steynonline.com/7293/the-barbarians-are-inside-and-there-are-no-gates
Afrophobia eh? Another stick to beat the native Irish with..does this mean “racist” has been discarded? Or is this the battlecry of a new,”client centred” Quango?
What’s native Irish? Exactly.
Joachin Peiper – are you a native Irish person ?
Bet we’ll have asiaphobia, romaphobia, skangerphobia and pavee point soon
If you prefer Joachin I’ll just stick to calling you racist then.
Of course. There’s no such thing as ‘native’ Irish. The Left always like to deny the ancient lineages of peoples on these islands. Even though the majority of white Irish people’s genealogy goes back thousands of years.
Of course. There’s no such thing as ‘ native ‘ Irish. We just arrived here yesterday. The left love to deny the ancient lineage of Irish people. It makes easier for them to peddle mass immigration policies. The gen eology of the majority of Irish goes back thousands of years on these islands.
” The Left always like to deny the ancient lineages of peoples on these islands. Even though the majority of white Irish people’s genealogy goes back thousands of years.”
Uh oh the Pamela Gellar aka Harry Ellis is coming out ..
I blame the cocaine
With my name? Obviously not.
If you wish.
The people living on this island are a big bunch of mongrels with genes from all over Europe and further, thrown in a big freckley pot. Just cos someone has an old Irish second name doesn’t rule out his mother being from Africa. The most distinct genealogy is actually found in travellers bloodlines. That doesn’t suit your agenda though, pity
Not true at all actually. What exactly is my agenda?
“What exactly is my agenda?”
agenda / occupation .. who gives a *** you are a bore and if you are a purebred white Paddy SOB go out and get breeding .. Christmas is coming and puppies are needed
Let’s see now.. You’re pro ‘ancient lineage of Irish people’. you’re anti immigration. What kind of agenda would that be, Herrtorius
How can one be ‘pro ‘ancient lineage of Irish people’. It’s either true or it isn’t. And studies have shown that the majority of Irish people can trace their geneology all the way back to the original settlers of these islands.
I’m anti-mass immigration. So what? It’s a completly reasonable and rational viewpoint to hold.
“And studies have shown that the majority of Irish people can trace their geneology all the way back to the original settlers of these islands.”
Hmm No Mr Gellar …
I bet there is Viking blood in you
Please show me those studies you speak of?!! First settlers would be all the way back to the ice age yes? So unless you can trace your DNA back to that period, you’re not native Irish?!
That’s a pretty ignorant reading of irish genealogy Sertorius. Have you done any research?
The celts were immigrants, the Vikings were immigrants, the normans and Anglo saxons, etc etc. Are these peoples included in your ‘ancient lineage’ too?
Ross Stewart says: “big bunch of mongrels with genes from all over Europe and further”
Do you call African or Asian people mongrels?
Fact is western European genes are from a distinct group of white people. Ethnic Europeans are not African or Asian. Irish are made up of pre celt white Irish people and then a large group of successive waves of white Celts and then a far smaller number of waves of Vikings, Normans and Brits. Vikings etc are also white, the Irish are genetically and culturally related to all those white groups of people, we are all from the same genetic family tree. Africans and Asians are not, and they have their own genetic and cultural family trees, is that not a good thing, that we are all different?
Furthermore, the whites who came were not welcome, they were not immigrants who got a welcome red carpet, they were invaders whom the Irish saw as competing for their resources. The Irish resisted those people coming here. So if you are going to lay down bs comparisons then let get something consistant, if our Irish ancestors had the right to say no to invasion and had weapons to resist it, then we too have the right to say no to this invasion, yet we are not allowed resist it.
More About Genes – The Irish Really are a race apart
By Dr. Emmeline Hill
Men with Gaelic surnames coming from the west of Ireland are descendants of the oldest inhabitants of Europe.
http://www.insideireland.com/sample19.htm
Unique Celtic genes set us a race apart
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unique-celtic-genes-set-us-a-race-apart-26237637.html
Firstly, western europeans- does that include Spain and Portugal who have a lot of North African genes mixing around there? Or just the north western europeans? Who had Scandinavian genes, which had north Asian genes mixed. Yes, everyone is a mongrel, and every country has genes of the neighbouring countries mixed in, etc etc.
Secondly, when you say the “Irish” resisted the immigrant invaders, who do you mean by the Irish. Just the last bunch of invading immigrants? When did the celts become the “Irish”. When did the normans become the ” Irish”. Yes, we are all mongrels and there’s no shame in that. Inbreeding is unhealthy anyway
Ross, not all Spanish or Portuguese have North African blood. There are whites who have black hair and brown eyes but have white skin and white bone structure, these Spaniards and Portuguese are Western European whites. It is obvious who has the more non western European genes, you can note more sallow skin and less white caucasian bone structure. However even among these most of these peoples still hold to western European culture and values. North west Europeans do not have Asian genes mixed.
It is clear Scandinavians are not Asian or Oriental, it is clear a Nigerian is not Scandinavian or Chinese. It is clear that there are distinct differences between races and sub-races, ethnicities. There are even distinct differences between for example the different African peoples.
Let us go with your argument though, it still does not change the fact we can see and genetics and discern these differences even if we go with your argument of mongrelisation, modern genetics can still tell the differences between different populations and races and ethnicities. So today, right now, these differences exist, and you want to obliterate those differences. I thought you multicult people valued difference? Your idea of mongrelisation is nitpick, and does not warrant allowing in people of vastly different ethnicity or culture. Irish are not Nigerian or Chinese.
IF we have all evolved, meaning progressed on from a less sophisticated state, then why would we want to devolve back by mixing it all up, going back to what we just evolved from?
The first Irish were the white peoples who came here after the last ice-age. They resisted other whites (celts) who came later. They built Newgrange etc, they are Irish, do you think they were Zulus? Later Celts resisted other Celts who came in other later waves. Yet these peoples were all white and very closely related, we are not talking about one early wave of celts followed by a later wave of Africans followed by a later wave of Chinese. They all were white and had a similar genetics and culture. They were not African, not black, they did not bring an Oriental mind and way of doing things, they brought their western European mind, genetics and way of doing things. The later waves if invader and way of doing things was related to all other western ways because they are all from the same branch of genetics and culture. Like all races there was internal rivalry and strife. But the closely related peoples who came here, lived on the island of Ireland making it Irish and were Irish, no different to any area of any race in the world. Yet the difference exists between ethnicities and races, those of similar race have very small differences and large similarities, and those of different race have very large differences and circumstancial or anecdotal minute similarities. That is how different ethnicities come to be, your definition of mongrelisation dismisses scale of difference saying it does not matter how similar or how different races or ethnicities are, your idea of mongrelisation equates large scale and extremely different races and ethnicities with the inter-racial ethnicities who are quite separate to populations from other races. Meaning you equate the difference of a Norwegian and a Swede as being the same difference between a Nigerian and Chinese person. You are talking about false equivalence.
I’m not at all Irish- I’m a half-Yemeni, Israeli-American Jew, and have yet to experience anything like what these unfortunate immigrants had to experience. That said, I live in a good, ethnically diverse, and well-educated neighborhood, so I don’t have to deal with the sort of anti-immigrant racists as often. Honestly, I feel safe here, and everyone has been open and welcoming to me and my family. Regardless, the Gardaí should investigate these harassment allegations seriously- no one should live in fear, and no parent should ever incite their child to hatred and crime.
Yes Guy, but you’re not Black!
Glad that you feel safe.
Well done on being in a position of privilege, being a white male in Ireland, i can’t imagine how you have not suffered similar injustices as the people in this article…
Deirdre…you know Guy.?..small world.
Because you integrated
use of the red thumb are baffling sometimes
Can one ‘integrate’ and keep to themselves at the same times? ….. some folk like to keep to themselves.
People keep saying large communities of immigrants haven’t integrated, but yet no terrorism has come from these communities. There’s Ethnic enclaves all over the world & there’s no murder or mayhem coming from them
This ‘integration’ thing is a red herring. A way to blame a wider community for the actions of a few. A tactic born out of bigotry.
Feckin’ half-Yemeni, Israeli-American Jews, sure I can’t walk out my front door without tripping over a half-Yemeni, Israeli-American Jew. Sure they have they place ruined, god the smell of that fusion cuisine they always eat would turn your stomach and their informed and nuanced understanding of the middle east would make you sick.
One thing I will say in favor of the half-Yemeni, Israeli-American Jews they always leave the appropriate tip; not too generous to be grandiose but not too small to be stingy. You have to give that to them.
Aside from that they should just go back to some one of those places that make up their ethnicity; no room for all of them here!
Funny!!
Eric __ All of the terrorists come from tight-knit ethnic communities that don’t integrate, and because they don’t integrate, some of them are influenced by their militant peers and elders into thinking that anyone outside the community is a devil potting their downfall.
MeanderingsNI, are Zulus in whatever territory they call their homeland in a position of privilege?
What do you mean by privilege?
Did our ancestors sacrifice blood, sweat and tears so that their children and grandchildren could have a better life, isn’t that what you are describing as “privilege”, the simple birthright of a people to the resources of the territory their own ancestors struggled so hard and sacrificed so much to provide and claim.
What an insult to their sacrifice to call it privilege. It is what every normal human does for the next generation. You simply call the gift of such sacrifice as “privilege” in order to exploit and appropriate like a multicult taxman, our resources for people from another territory who otherwise would have no claim on these resources.
This is the work of.ignorant skum, I’m sure their neighbours have had similar experience. It is no doubt racism but this skum are racist, criminal, violent, anti social parasitic take your pick.
Is it?
I genuinely felt nausea reading this. Racism is taught. I wish this was rare but I think it may be worse since few are willing to make official reports and complaints.
You need to get out more
“You need to get out more”
to where ?
Anywhere really. Ireland is one of the least racist countries.
What college does the Racism class? I’m interested in brushing up my skills
Unfortunately this doesn’t surprise me, especially when you see what people post here under anonymous profiles, some of the comments on the Paris attack article were sickeningly ignorant, racist and full prejudice.
100 % accurate
Just make sure you know the difference between racism and criticism of a religious ideology.
Sertorius is that Steve Jobs in your profile picture ? You do know where his father came from ? LOL
Just make sure you know the difference between following a particular religion and subscribing to every particular tenant of it.
No it’s not Steve Jobs. And I couldn’t care less where Steve Jobs’ father came from.
Just make sure you know the difference between a tenant and a tenet.
oops Sertorius it is Hart Bochner:) he must be an idol of yours
It’s not Steve jobs it’s the idiot Coke head character from the first Die Hard who thinks he can negotiate what Alan Rickmans hans Grubber character, promptly get shot in the head for his stupidity, character name escapes me.
Had to IMDb it Harry Ellis as played by Hart Bochner
Hey babe I negotiate million dollar deals for breakfast, I think I can handle this Eurotrash.
Hey babe ,,, , I think I can handle this Eurotrash.
yep you are def Harry Ellis
Disgraceful. Would rather live next door to an African family that some of the Irish $cumbags that are out there. I guarantee there will be no public outrage or Prime Time programme devoted to this issue, unlike the Travellers. I wonder why that is
You can live next to mine then as they are a nightmare! Kid tried to set the apartment complex on fire recently
less of the prejudice please, this may not necessarily be true
Maybe if our government paid more attention to education and housing of its own citizens, Racism would not exist, Their is a rise of getos around parts of Dublin, not good.
I doubt that- you will always find racist losers who blindly oppose any form of immigration, even if all of their needs were well-met.
I’m not sure if the spelling and grammar errors in your post add to your point or take away from it.
You have a nice day now Maurice,
The government allow in loads of asylum spoofers and then dump them in poor North Dublin communities. Then the “moral superior” crowd whose main hobby is calling people racist from their leafy suburbs act appalled when an immigrant quango highlight a couple of instances of racism.
Gkrell…end of.
There are a lot of immigrants that contribute more to our society than people born here.
You could keep throwing money at some natural born citizens and it won’t make any difference. There are certain communities that are constantly hoovering up money and there is no change in employment. Their social responsibility and self help are simply broken and they don’t want to change. No amount of funding/help will change that. What do you do with a 3rd generation of people dependant on state handouts?
There isn’t really a solution as you would have to get them away from their peers and community and convince them to work really hard. Not many people are that strong to completely change their whole life in the same way it would be hard to change to their lifestyle and community.
@ Kal
Please correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like you would be in favour of removing social welfare from able-bodied people who have never contributed to Irish society after a certain time frame. Is this right?
I said nothing of the sort nor made any suggestion that is all you.
There is simply a section of society that will remain marginalised and they don’t really want it any other way. It is near impossible to break that cycle bar removing their children. People who fundamentally don’t want to work and expect the state to pay for them. They exist while there are a lot of immigrants here for a lot less time who have paid more taxes and contribute to society.
It is also more probable that the very same state dependant people are going to be vocal and violent racists.
My friend received lots of criticism from a Lithuanian colleague at work a few weeks ago who was giving out that the Irish Government were going to let too many refugees into the country. UNBELIEVABLE. Kal Ipers how dare you brand some Irish people as depending on state handouts and not wanting to work. Maybe they are looking for work but there are no jobs around as they have been hoovered up by polish/lithuanian. I come from a small town and jobs are hard to come by. There is a large factory and 2/3 of the employees are foreign nationals. If anybody mentions anything you are racist towards them but they have plenty to say about Irish people.
I vote that while we are at it, all Irish people be made return home. I would hate for us be accused of being hypocrites.
Matty, Irish people going to countries that were made by Europeans and which we have ancestral ties to is not the same as Africans and Asians along with all their families coming to countries that are the home of an ethnic people. Africans and Asians do not have their countries opened up to millions of the whole world to simply flood into their countries and force a change on their native peoples, so why do you wish such a change on European people, that is nothing more than hate.
@watersedge
You don’t believe there are Irish people who don’t want to work and are happy to live of the state‽ that is simply idiotic. There are 3rd and 4th generations of families that have not worked an honest days work in their lives. It is sadly very common and as a single parent would need to earn 32k a year just match what the get on welfare I also understand it.
If a factory became predominately foreign nationals I would be wondering why but I wouldn’t be blaming the workers. As EU citizens they have every right and you might notice Irish people go all around Europe and work there.
That old card again. Of course plenty of Irish emigrate to other countries. I am not against people choosing to broaden their horizons nor I am against immigrants coming into Ireland. Black people especially I have great sympathy for. The way they have been treated throughout history is one of the greatest shames of mankind and to continue to be treated this way in this day and age is scandalous. Also the way travelling people in this country are treated is sickening. I do on the other hand think that some sort of a cap should have been put on the AMOUNT of eastern europeans coming in to Ireland on such a large scale considering we are such a small country. There has been huge pressure put on the housing side of things because of it.
@watersedge
We are in the EU and there is freedom of movement to all its members. That means no restriction is possible unless we leave the EU.
I have no idea where you live but in Dublin 20% are foreign born nationals. That is much more than anywhere else in the country. Much more social pressure here as a result. I work with about 9 different nationalities. No problem with it and major problems recruiting staff. Mean while there are plenty of Irish people saying they can’t get a job and they aren’t retraining.
I predicted all this racism such as yours when things started to change. It was always going to be the lower skilled jobs that would be taken first and cause the biggest contention.
Something tells me that you are not from Ireland. All of your comments have been to bash the unemployed Irish people and when it comes to it anybody who is “working class” with “lower skilled jobs”. As you stereotyped them “vocal and violent racists”.
100% Irish and if you read back you will see I didn’t say what you are attributing to me. I don’t consider people who don’t work ‘working class’.
I actually know a lot about social welfare claims and long term unemployed because I did research for DSP with their data. There are plenty of areas where not working is the norm. No idea why you are in denial about this as it is common knowledge. The same areas have a high level of criminals current and past. They are also areas with poorer education among those residents. That does lead to more violent people and a trend towards racism. If you don’t believe that is fine but you could look up the research and you will see that this is pretty standard stuff.
Watersedge,
“Black people especially I have great sympathy for. The way they have been treated throughout history is one of the greatest shames of mankind”
Blacks enslaved other blacks you know. Blacks treated blacks as much if not with more hate than any other race. Arabs took over 100 million African slaves and 1 million european slaves, Jews financed, owned slave trading posts, owned and crewed slave ships. So why is all this blame being put on white people?
So what does opening up our country have to do with any of that. Every people have a right to their own ethnic territory and doing so is not hate of other people.
People like KalIpers here saying that there are Irish people who are content not to work and live off the state. Yes I have no doubt that is true, that there are some.
So KalIpers is suggesting that the solution to that is to import people, and just ignore the people who have found themselves in a dysfunctional state.
There is not one human who truly wants to do nothing. Everyone wants to do something and work at something they like or is connected to something they like.
So Kal Ipers if you had any deceny in your thought-process or if you happen to call yourself a socialist, then you are espousing business-class ideals, of just jettisoning and discarding people, treating people like they are disposable, that you can simply get new people and import people to fill anything you want. That is what is called a throw-away society except you think people are to be included in the list of things you can throw away.
The real solution is not mass-immigration but to cultivate a culture where everybody is responsible and tries to find work that is either suitable or is somewhat fulfilling. Creating a society where people feel they are part of a bigger ethnic family takes care of a lot of that because then people feel they would do work they never thought they would, because they feel they are part of something bigger than them, working to further their people, their country, their family. All work thusly is seen as vital and important, whereas today that perception is not there, and is decreasing, mostly thanks to gloablism and it’s pet, multiculturalism.
I am not referring to black people in the context of immigration to Ireland. My view is of a general nature concerning black people and how racist people can be towards them whether it be here or in any other country. I am going by what I have read in the above article concerning verbal and physical abuse towards some of them and their children. We all have different views but I do not agree with that sort of carry on just because of the colour of their skin, they are human beings like any of the rest of us and no different. No matter what people think of other cultures that type of hatred that those people have experienced is crossing the line.
Watersedge, “general nature concerning black people and how racist people can be towards them”
Who said this is a general thing, who said it is a general thing from white people to black people. For starters this article is based on unfounded allegations, yet they cite a quango which is run by an open-border extremist nutcase known for censoring Irish people’s free right of expression and assembly. So just where are you getting your information that black people in general have this “general” racism toward them, who told you this, what reliable solid evidence do you have to support this claim, rather than lies and propaganda from people who want Irish people extinct as per the open-borders agenda?
I told you blacks have treated black people with far more cruelty and racism than in the history of white people. Before white people they enslaved, raped, raided and subjected other blacks to cannibalism, where is your condemnation of black on black violence and hate?
I told you what arabs and jews did to blacks, where is your condemnation of that? It was whites who actually made the first worldwide moves to stop slavery, which blacks and Jews tried to stop, where is your praise of whites for that, as well as all the help we have given the 3rd world, the food, money, aid, medicine, education programmes, which now sees their populations exploding, we save them from dying, we let them into our homes, where is your praise of all that. No other race has done more for humanity. If you think different, then leave the western people and place you hate.
You have serious issues and I am not going to reply to you again as it is only adding fuel to the fire. Take a look in the mirror, you are the best example I can give of racism. Keep an eye on your blood pressure and have a nice evening.
Watersedge, if reading facts is a serious issue to you, then you are the one with the serious issues.
Point out which fact in the comment troubles you
When did have a referendum on immigration?
If politicians think it is popular, let’s put it to the people!
We are unable to look after our own, homelessness and unemployment.
Also, we still have thousands leaving Ireland every month!
Sounds good nigel. A referendum on immigration and emigration.?
You don’t get to vote on agreements that are part of the rules that we signed up for to be in the EU and similar.
We are part of a wider community and have obligations to human rights.
Kal Ipers, What detailed debate did the Irish people have on the nature and consequences of letting floods of people into our country. The Irish were never informed about any of this multicultural policies of mass-immigration, they were certainly mislead and lied to. And indeed they did vote no to at least one EU treaty and were threatened to vote yes next time. We have no obligation to allow in 1 foreign person into our country. We have always and continue to help foreigners with foreign financial aid €670 million a year, and aid projects abroad. We do not owe one penny or thing to any foreigner.
I am sure Ireland gladly takes the money of all the people working in your large IT companies, because the irish are not able to speak the languages these markets need in their EUROPEAN headquarters. You take the taxes (40%), their rent, their money in your shops and thats thousands of people who wouldnt bring money to your well bred Irish community. Thank God most Irish people I know are not like you and are living happy and content lives in this OUR country. You want your country back well get all of these billion Euro paying international IT workers out and try to live of what little industry is left here then. Jesus, really do you listen to yourself. Where was Ireland before the big IT boom?
Large IT companies?
So Irish people are not able to learn foreign languages. I’ll have you know Irish monks re-educated Europe after the fall of Rome, do you think they spoke to all those continental countries in Irish? Sure most Irish might be living happy content lives for now, but when they become a minority all that will change, they will no longer be able to ignore the demands placed on them by other races or cultures which are then the majority and will assert their demands over the Irish, that is what is happening all over Europe and that is what will happen here.
Btw before any foreigner set foot in Ireland, Irish people paid taxes too and still do. Your argument that foreigners pay taxes means nothing, if we as Irish people need taxes, then we have an Irish populace to do that, we don’t need to import people to do that, what a ridiculous argument. Also one more thing regarding the large IT companies, how many foreigners do you think they employ? Do you think that such a small figure like maybe 8,000 at the very most warrants a country opening its borders to mass-immigration allowing in millions? If we need 8,000 foreign workers to speak a foreign language, (which we don’t) then we simply advertise for those 8,000 and that is all. But as stated, we do not even need that 8,000 we simply train our own Irish people for those jobs, Ireland always attracted foreign companies long before multiculturalism. In any case, we should be developing our own industry and companies not relying on foreign corporations who then pull out with devastating wrecking of Irish careers and jobs.
Ireland, greatest export it’s own people.
And bananas
And getting bananas.
Most people in Ireland are welcoming. I never considered myself a racist but to be honest if I saw a Muslim boarding the same aeroplane as me it would make me hesitate. So maybe I am a racist !
No Mary your just a decent person, who has genuine fears, the sad thing is, there are a lots of people on here, who know better than you, who will judge you and demean you, because of your irrational fears, They will call you ignorant, and a backward Irish person, attack your values and religious beliefs, and see you as a hater, or tag you with, whatever ISM or phobic label they deem appropriate. These vanguards, who promote their own liberal agenda, have no empathy for citizens like you, however they need easy targets, to reinforce their reverse racism and ethical superiority, they are morally ordained, and more enlightened than you, without any empathy for those of us native to Ireland experiencing change, you Values, contributions and your culture does not matter.
So welcome to the club.
Eddie…I wish I was as elequent as you..
It’s Enar so let’s all take what these fart sniffers say with a pinch of salt. A few vague and possibly inflated tales of abuse doesn’t warrant an article. Just another puff piece for the race hustlers to feel important.
There are many things to be proud of in this country, but the broad and deep seam of racism is not one of them.
It’s hardly broad and deep.
I would guess you would only need a minute in the company of any of those people throwing out the abuse and you’d see the issue – people with low education levels. People hardly contributing themselves and angry that some ‘johnny foreigner’ may be doing better than them.
Unfortunately, in my experience, it is not limited to those social groups.
I’ve no issues with people coming here to work and integrate into society, i’m all for that and everybody wanting a good life nothing wrong with that, but don’t come here expecting stuff for free with an entitlement and bring their ways with them, that’s the main problem with Muslims they bring their ways with them but hey you can’t bring your ways with you to their country funny that, but if they don’t like it then i’m sorry this is Ireland go home plain and simple.
Why pick on someone’s religion?
We have 10′s of thousands of Eastern European migrants here who make no effort to speak English in work or when you come across them in public, sometimes I think I’m in Warsaw or Belgrade when i’m walking through the Blanchardstown centre for instance… Maybe they should go home?
I’m speaking about integrating into society and Eastern Europeans have integrated here as I said I’ve no issues with people coming here to work, i’m speaking about how Muslims come here and think it should be there way or no way, Eastern Europeans don’t dictate to us here about our religion and get offended when they see a statue of our lady of Lourdes and want it taken down in the hospitals that’s what i’m on about and that’s the truth of it as I’ve said if they don’t like go back home we didn’t ask them to come here and if they do respect our ways it’s our country and abide by our ways like when we go to their country
Integrated here because they are White? Because it seems that’s what you are really saying…
Any religion shouldn’t monopoly on displaying statues and images of there deity in public places, having a statue of “Our lady” wouldn’t suit white atheists, Jews, or Christian Protestants?
What if 500,000 Nigerians want to come?
add to that what if 500,000 Ghanaians want to come?
add to that what if another 500,000 Angolans want to come?
etc, etc, etc
Are you ok with all of them coming, even if they integrate? What about tribal or national or religious rivalries? What about Rwandans and Hutus, and what if they start playing out their rivalries here in our country? What about Sunni vs Shia, what if they start playing out their sectarianism here in our country?
And the question is, why should other ethnic peoples with their own sense of identity and culture have to integrate?
Fact is they shouldn’t which means, we shouldn’t have to open up our territory to others either.
Lay off the LSD MulticultNonsenseAccount!
He makes a good point. The guy said he had no issues with people coming here to work and integrate into society which is the usual PC media-approved canard.
And bloodbath responded asking him whether he has a limit? Is ok with half a million Nigerians “who want to work and integrate” coming or not?
Eurostat estimates that by 2061, 45.1% of 15-39 year olds living in Ireland will be of foreign origin. Eventually in a century or two Ireland could have practically no people of Irish origin living here. Are people ok with that?
I’ll repeat again what I said, I’ve no issue with people coming here to work, but controlled obviously and it doesn’t affect Irish people working, obviously if Irish people aren’t skilled in some sector you bring in people that are, Australia is a prime example of this and i’m sure people in their country would have the same view as what i’m saying. You come to a country you’re a guest and you respect their ways and culture like if I go to another country I respect their ways and culture obviously
Gkrell…he makes a LOT of good points….
Check out history of Liverpool Irish. Emigration from Ireland to Liverpool increased population of city by 4O% and they didn’t exactly integrate they created what is still the Liverpool Irish community today.
The problem with your comparison Norma is that Irish are white and while we are still different to Brits, we are also at the same time very much alike both genetically and culturally. Many of the celt tribes who inhabited Ireland were some of the same tribes who had branches in Britain. So Irish people going to Liverpool is simply the same kind of white western people as the British. While they have developed their own culture and have slightly differing genes, mostly the genetic and cultural aspect is so similar and was originally from the same white branch of peoples, so we are far more able to interchange and reconnect with other white peoples. There is no comparison with this and with African and middle-easterners coming here, whom we do not share these genetic and cultural bonds and similarities with.
There are 190 organisations in Ireland advocating for immigration (Read here). We are the only organised voice for immigration control.
The stronger our organisation, the stronger that voice.
JOIN IMMIGRATION CONTROL PLATFORM TODAY
http://www.immigrationcontrol.org/
Oh my God, you guys have an iol email address!
Is Nigel Davis Sertorius as well ?
just wondering ..
they need to get out breeding to produce the purebred puppies
The Gardai should be more responsive in cases of intimidation like the family in North Dublin above.
If that’s a council estate then the council should remove the woman who is targetting them.
Anti social behaviour is a big problem on council estates across the country and unfortunately councils turn a blind eye and ignore their responsibilities in this regard leaving people to sort out problems themselves.
Well said Tommy. Unfortunately too often they just move the victim, which solves nothing.
the children are the most who sufferers. the integration to the society is vital to them. Say no to racism.
I’m pretty sure all buses have cctv and I’m pretty sure the other people seeing such abuse would have reported it if not stood up for the person being abused and the recording would have been analysed and stored for future investigation so let’s see it and not start playing hearsay and anecdotal as this “report” from ENAR seems to be..
Yeah, because everyone knows you should stand up for a complete stranger who is being abused by a skanger.
Yes, it makes for disgusting reading.
But . . . . . . .
Reality check – ask almost anyone if racism is wrong and they will probably answer, “Yes, of course”
Ask almost anyone whether they are racist and they will likely reply, “No”, or “no, but . . . . ”
And the truth is that we are all of us inherently racist.
Our species evolved with a mechanism that makes us wary or distrustful of “otherness”. It’s a survival strategy linked to the natural “fight or flight” responses in our brains. We evolved living in small-ish tribes or groups and often needed to be wary. Nowadays there’s thousands of us from all over the world coming in to contact with each other, often far from “home”. In an evolutionary sense this has happened in too short a time to allow us to evolve to a more suitable response. Mostly we consciously rationalise it, bury it as it were. But subconsciously the reaction is there, and with some people it’s very close to the surface.
Ethno-centrism……..in a word! All depends how it is acted upon subjectively…..alas!
Yet somehow when we in Ireland asserted our natural right to call this country and it’s resources the property of the Irish people, (called sovereignty) we never had a bad thing said about us and not one person from the 3rd world thought we were mean or hurting their feelings, in fact we got on better with people and were able to be neighbours and friends to them without giving away our country. Imagine that.
Uneducated, non-travelled idiots. We all originated from Africa once, some people need to travel and experience being a minority in another country for awhile, suddenly you realize the difficulty some people have to go through to be accepted.
Stiofán, judging by the number of red thumbs for your comment and on other posts, I think the Irish have forgotten our common ancestors in Africa!
Just confirms the latent racism endemic in Ireland.
What is race? Race is only something made up by people who feel the need to label people. We are all people at the end of the day, some of us look different, speak different, follow different cultures. It’s how we live our lives that’s important not the colour of our skin.
The only way I’d ever use the word race is in the context of either you’re part of the s(umbag race or a member of normal society.
Most Africans I’ve met I have not really liked. I really like African Americans though. Not bothered about skin color but I definitely find Africans to be annoying
“I really like African Americans though. ”
elaborate …
“Not bothered about skin color but I definitely find Africans to be annoying”
what about the Koreans and Chinese
Just like that guy Randy on Wheel of Fortune……or the nagging Councillor Scully from ‘thoroughbred’ town!!
Ní mó seasamh in aghaidh an fhuatha agus ar son an ghrá.
So are you or aren’t, Your Irish is hard for google to translate.
We were called blow ins where we live, I grew up 5 mins walk from where we live now!
Maybe try speaking with an English or AngloIrish accent at 11.30 in a pub in rural Ireland when the Wolfe Tones hits are playing and you’ll find out what prejudice and ignorance is all about. It can’t be described as racism as it might involve someone of the same genes born and reared in Ireland but educated in England, but you’ll still be blamed for 800 years of murder and mayhem evn if your family and ancestors were the ones being murdered. Of course if you engage as gaeilge you’ll be just slagged as some buck from a rock of sheep abusers. You might not be as hated as someone from the town land five miles away though because it’s in a different county. It’s a good job horses can’t talk.
Patrick…you must be a bogger to know all that.
Ah Longford on a Saturday night
There’s a song called ‘If you’re Irish, come into the parlor” it’s basically telling everyone who’s no Irish to feck off.
Jack…that song references an Irish man who went to America who would love to meet people from the ‘old sod’….it’s not about people in Ireland welcoming Irish people only.
Hate to burst your bubble.
Fair enough, it just sounded a bit anti everyone who’s not Irish.
CHORUS
If you’re Irish come into the parlor,
There’s a welcome there for you;
If your name is Timothy or Pat,
So long as you come from Ireland,
There’s a welcome on the mat,
If You come from the Mountains of Mourne,
Or Killarney’s lakes so blue,
We’ll sing you a song and we’ll make a fuss,
Whoever you are you are one of us,
If you’re Irish, this is the place for you!
Jack Bowden
Jezz are you some sort of PC anti Irish storm trooper, its a song of welcome to Irish people- maybe the author was lonley and hoping to have a party, a few drinks and a bit of craic with some fellow country people ( Pat covers the sexist angle) , then some kill joy like yourself turns up and everyone have to fill out a forms or attend a PC workshop on diversity , it sounds anti-everyone else- for real, What your option on national anthems then , those type of song seem to be exulting the virtues and values of individual nations, without mentioning anyone else, though some don’t have any words, which might make your task more difficult to suggest racist intent
Only if you want it to, Jack….or if you only know the chorus.
PC anti Irish storm trooper. Lol. That’s so funny.
A PC anti Irish Storm trooper died today from cognitive dissonance.
On the Luas last week and this horrible decrepit junkie woman gets on and starts having a conversation with her equally decrepit junkie friend of hers (the fact that she was sitting two carriges away didnt deter her) She stood in front of a black lady, staring at her, and starts shouting “yeah and I can’t get me knee fixed coz they’re looking after all these foriderners first and I’m sleeping in a hostel coz they’re giving all these foriderners the houses” I felt so sorry for the black lady, a decent member of society to be singled out by an utter waste of oxygen because she somehow thought she was above “foriderners”. Seems to me most of the racists are work shy spongers who contribute nothing in the first place.
Sarrah29….hard to argue with that.
Not on
I hear some terrible comments from people especially in the pub. Add drink to some people’s tongues and all your racism comes out. Makes me ashamed to be Irish.
Could be worse you could also support United
And no other race on the planet is capable of being racist so? Get some cop on with your hysterics
Stephen Doyle which united? MUFC? (Monaghan United Football Club) LEEDS? WEST HAM? NEWCASTLE? tosser
Poor Dylan ashamed of being Irish because the big bad boys are saying nasty words and drinking alcohol in the PUB shock horror , either change pubs, or grow a pair of balls, and stand up then for what you believe in, otherwise hug your blankie you hyper sensitive wimp.
I find most is stupid board kids, the other is people been taken up wrong like when people from different counties in Ireland slag each other, and the Irish cents of humor can be taken up wrong.
The rest is people who genuinely needed support and got nothing after years of hard work, see others just arrive and get every thing which leads to racism remarks that are not really meant but are said out of anger.
The worst kind is the silent racism, which is the worst of all.
I think it’s horrible to hear of stuff like this, small minded bigots, that’s all they are, the same people have probably never even travelled as far as cork. The same people who have never read anything on rasism against the Irish in other countries and indeed even here when we could be bought and sold as slaves, really I reckon it only plays into the stereotype of the Irish as being uneducated drunks fighting amongst ourselves and leaving the Lord’s to rule us. Pathetic stuff.
Cupid
The Irish were never bought and sold as slaves; the tale of the Irish slaves is rooted in a false conflation of indentured servitude and chattel slavery. Not anywhere near the same experience as Black African slavery White indentured servitude was so very different from black slavery as to be from another galaxy of human experience, You may be interested to note you are promoting White supremacist rhetoric In the wake of the Ferguson shooting, by supporting such spurious ‘Irish slavery’ articles on social media and distracting and diluting the genuine African experience, in fact you play to the stereotype as a self-hater , I feel you are finding it difficult to find your place in Irish society , despite the privileges of being born, and I assume enjoyed some basic education in Ireland, BTW I have travelled as far as Cork, it was OK.
We have always been status obsessed but also racist.
both annoy me
It’s not uncommon for outsiders to have similar experiences in Dublin, ‘culchies’ included.
The issue only seems to be addressed when immigrants are involved. Wonder why?
Right-wing Irish Republican Activist. Anti-clerical. Against mass migration. Pro-Life [provided I’m not the father
https://twitter.com/AnLaimhLaidir
Another sill Troll
Are you a rampant Jackophobe or just a Nordi/Culchiphile!?!
Whoever is abusing these people based on skin colour are absolutely brain-dead, moronic imbeciles who deserve to have the dole money cut off, or if they have a job, let there bosses know they are hiring racists sc-m!
Even 10 years ago in a holiday resort frequented by mainly British, I walked past a pub with a sign saying “No Blacks or Irish”… Was the same all over the UK in the past also.. Now we have our own racist bigots!
To be honest I don’t believe you. 10 years ago? Please name the resort?
Sertorius it was the nudist beach you hand out with Pamela Gellar and the National Front (BNP) and ex loyalists ….
hang out
Well seeing as it’s you Harry Ellis, it was Malia, Crete.
Plenty of Union Jacks and people walking around with British Army tattoo’s, not a good place to be Irish!
be careful Integra-Ted – Harry Ellis is good mates with the Loyalists …..
Sertorius…you have a very determined stalker…flattered?
I don’t believe him either, i do remember, in the 1980s seeing a sign for spuds in Kildare, saying fit for pigs and soldiers
Joachin Peiper 14 minutes ago #
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Sertorius…you have a very determined stalker…flattered?
One racist Troll defends another ..
maybe lovers ?
Maybe…
if your having a 3sum include me
the people who wrote ‘BLACKS OUT’ probably go on about home much they love 2pac and biggie smalls small minded idiots…
I had thought about applying for a job in Ireland, having lived in France for the last 21 years. I read a few reviews concerning the private hospital in the town I wanted to work in, and was sad to read the racist remarks concerning African and Asian health workers.
The Irish are racist. End of
Where did you read such remarks- i dont think we have gone so far as to publish the racist monthly, I am sure you would not have experienced such comments if you had considered the public health sector
What happened to Ireland being full of the most welcoming, friendly people in the world?
Bord failte made that up as a campaign slogan
It’s a generational thing, but i would say it stopped around 2005 from then onwards , i think we were pretty much as far up our own holes as we could get,
We have opened up our borders, we are becoming strangers on our own country, we have less money to pay for the needs of our own people, with suicides, drug rehab, womens refuge, home help, cancer care, emergency wards, homelessness, give €670 million a year in foreign aid and still we are called racist and unwelcoming.
Let’s get this straight, any people having a territory to call their own, is not hate of other people.
C’mon now, racism is as Catholic as guilt. White people’s history as Tim Wise always says is pretty crazy, persecution by one set of white boys to another, who failing to heal take it out on someone else, like arriving as refugees in the new world and massacring the natives in their millions. The persecuted tribes of Scotland and Ireland were the foundation of the KKK not the english WASP brigade.
Gotta spread that pain!
Meanwhile the Irish descendants in the caribbean, mostly of mixed blood these days, live in slacker heaven coz black folks dare not say a word against them.
One form of anger seems to become another form, the only difference is a skin pigment and that is enough to hate a whole person for… Where is do onto others as you would like done unto you???
But people need an excuse just to be who they really are and that is nasty, is it a new lifestyle choice to be stupid???
no ones mentioned irish water yet so far into a thread…..wow shit must be getting real here.
I am not going to say ‘Black people’ as that’s as ignorant as ‘The white man in Africa’, but let me say that racism is alive and well among certain Africans. This is a non-story really. Popcorn fart ‘agency’ makes popcorn fart statement in order to make itself relevant. Incidentally, Homophobia is rife among most Africans too.
I thought they all came here without passports?
Ireland is a country of love and tolerance, and no racists,,,ouch, stay out of this jack! Kick me again and there’ll be oats tonight
All these instances seem to be in Dublin..
Shocking that the anti social capital of the Europe would engage in this kind of behaviour. Hopefully it follows the murders and general crime statistics in not having a significant presence in the rest of the country.
The anti social capital of Europe ? Lol, you’re obviously not very well travelled.
You can see the rest in the original report at http://enarireland.org/afrophobia-in-ireland-racism-against-people-of-african-descent/
I thought afrophobia was a person had a fear of Afros!!!!
What is striking, is that the news doesn’t report on these instances as they happen, The Gardai don’t issue reports on how often they happen. When something like this happens the news should report it, and the people should express their outrage.
Not surprised to see the Traveller movement involved. Ka-ching!
Idea ! swap rasists for refugees
Can you define what you mean by rasist?
And could you tell us what these anti-Irish people mean by racist too?
I hate all racists, black and white, life can be tough enough without all this sh#te added in.
Thanks for making me ashamed to be Irish. Racist facists.
jack stop crying, and eat your oats, sure the whole of Ireland loves pie bald donkeys, there now, there now, try another spoon of oats, good donkey.
Woman in her late 60′s who live near me keeps abusing her neighbours. The young family is from south Africa lovely people. Well the woman in question gets drunk and shouts from her top window about theses people.. Ie racist comments.. This is going on over 4 years she even took a hammer to his car late one night in front of 10 witnesses. She keeps this family up all night banging on walls.. Gardai and county council have been call nothing been done about her. Only last Monday this woman got gardai on me saying that I the n#(¢¥€r lover said I was going to kill her… Gardai come to me.. Never once have I ever been in trouble with the law.. All this family is been told she suffering with mental illness and they will sort something out….
Based on the comments found on articles, the Journal is the most disgusting website related to Ireland. It attracts the worst of our population.
Cant tell the difference between a Pakistani and a black person eh?
just alot of uneducated re*arded AJH’s.
have your say