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A CARBON TAX could reduce emissions by up to 10% and reduce income inequality despite concerns poorer families would be worst hit by a tax, research from the Economic and Social Research Institute has claimed.
A paper published today claims an increase to €30 per tonne on carbon emissions would see an almost 4% drop in emissions, with a gradual increase of up to €80 per tonne by 2030 delivering a 10% drop in carbon emissions.
Carbon tax currently applies to carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of turf, coal and other fossil fuels. It is charged at €20 per tonne of CO2 and is applied at the point of sale.
The research specifically relates to the effect the tax would have on running private vehicles and home heating and means citizens would see an additional weekly expense of €3 initially, which would rise to around €7 by 2030.
This framework is based on the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Climate Action recommendation of a gradual increase of up to €80 on carbon tax.
Lead author of the research, Miguel Angel Tovar said the impact that would have on households would depend on individual income levels.
Income inequality
However, the paper also examines the ways in which income inequality can be positively impacted by the introduction of increased carbon taxes.
It states that the revenue raised through the increase in carbon taxes could be targeted towards poorer families and reduce income inequality by up to 1% initially, with the gradual tax increases leading to income inequality being reduced by up to 2.8% by 2030.
“One way of recycling the income raised through a carbon tax is by having a carbon cheque, which other countries call flat allocation,” Angel Tovar explained.
“It is a mechanism by which the revenues reach each household evenly but there is also some different administrative costs in this.”
“But the main idea here is instead of giving a cheque, we may be giving money in social welfare transfers to those on lower incomes.
“You can give them the money through means tested benefits which is established already and so you could give them more money and the administrative costs thus get diminished.
“One issue is the environmental target and the other issue is income inequality and you can tackle both when you apply the carbon tax, raising [revenue] and giving it out based on income level.”
Last year, Finance minister Paschal Donohue considered introducing higher carbon taxes in Budget 2019 but ditched the idea at the last minute.
Both Donohue and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar have said there is a long-term trajectory involving carbon taxes required if Ireland is to meet its climate change objectives.
A report from the ESRI last year, which was welcomed by the government, concluded that the current carbon tax has a minimal impact on consumers and producers, and did not act as an incentive to decarbonise.
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Tax the working, and give the scroungers extra handouts.
@Mick paisley: Depends on who you see as the scroungers. Would it be Dennis who got an extra 300 million debt write down recently?
@Mick paisley: punishing competence and ward working has always been part of the climate agenda…
@Tony Garcia: Plus since I was a child in the 80′s we have only had 10 years to save the planet………..Woooow and guess what its still f$%king here
@M Stuart: Well, according to AOC, whom holds a PhD in vodka martinis, the world will end in 12 yeas anyway, so why bother?
@Mick paisley: no whinging now the people voted for these parties this is what they want more taxation!!!!!!!!!
@Robert Phelan: I certainly didn’t vote for them, ironically if SF, PBP or any other leftys got power, they would probably increase tax even more than the current sham.
@Dave Doyle: Carbon tax will work because it will enable the public service to afford the difference between grants and cost of making their homes greener and e-cars will be affordable for them. The rest of us just need to knuckle down and pay whatever diesel, petrol and oil will cost.
@Mick paisley: And breaks for the hard-up corporations.
USC was introduced in 2011 as a temporary tax . Quote below.
Noonan added that the USC changes will benefit “every worker and every pensioner who currently pays income tax or USC, or both…”.
Anyone see the benefit from the USC yet ? I personally haven’t. I have zero confidence in the Government to use the Carbon tax for its correct purpose.
@Stoneybroke: is Noonan still alive?
@Gus Sheridan: He sure is. Living it up on his nice big pension. Surely sitting on some boards for extra pocket money! Hasn’t even had to open the brown envelopes from the vulture funds yet!
@Stoneybroke: the USC was brought in by FF not Noonan
@Darren Davitt: A pension he earned by working his entire life without taking one cent in welfare payments and rising to near the top of his chosen profession. And as for the brown envelope accusation, take the evidence you obviously must have to the Gardai. You do have evidence, right ? Otherwise you’re making unfounded accusations.
So yet again middle income workers like the majority of us get nothing from what I have read here
@Humphrey Harold Haddington: My kids don’t care about you having to pay an extra 3 euro a week to try and do something about the planet we have destroyed. My future grandchildren definitely won’t give a shite. I’m 100% sure your kids and grandkids don’t give a fiddlers about me having to pay it either. It’s not about you, it’s about time you and others begin to realise that
@Yurty Tim: until the big polluters like Asia and America get on board and reduce emissions our kids future is dire.
One of the biggest polluters is also air travel are you forgoing your holidays this year to save the planet?
We may pay a lot more than 3 euros a week to meet a 30 euro per ton carbon tax, your deluded of you think its 3 euros each!
@Humphrey Harold Haddington: Have you put as much time into your calculations as this chap from the ESRI? Send through the link to your research paper there sure and we’ll take a look
@Humphrey Harold Haddington: So we just keep on keeping on is it? Baby steps they may be, but it’s steps in the right direction. You sound just as bad as a kid in senior infants telling another kid “takes one to know one”.
Maybe you might have an idea?
@Yurty Tim: so ill take it your flying out on holidays this year!
@Yurty Tim: How about tax people less so they can afford these overpriced electric cars? Make it easier for the majority of the work force to buy electric instead of pricing us out. Lower income families will just about b able to afford a second r third hand car with big omissions. It’s a money grab and nothing else
@Brian Carroll: who pays the ERSI?
When the main head line from ERSI says ‘Could’ twice says it all. why don’t they say will without a doubt!
@MarkSul: I agree, make electric cars cheaper. A good idea put forward.
@Humphrey Harold Haddington: I am indeed.
@Humphrey Harold Haddington: damn right
@Yurty Tim: Perhaps if you or your children did some research they and you would quickly realise this is all a scam, a reality check, our installed windy mill generating capacity is currently 3080Mw, as I write windy mills are generating 196Mw and are forecast to peak today at 490Mw, what’s keeping the lights on are our fossil-fueled climate catastrophe power stations, reality, if we quadrupled our windy mill capacity, to 12000Mw we would still only generate 800Mw of our current demand of 3126Mw, you would not be going to work today, because your workplace would have no power and you and your neighbours would be busy collecting what stick you could find to light a fire to boil a kettle of water to make a cup of tea, source http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#roi
If you want to see how the neighbours are getting on have a look here https://www.electricitymap.org, just click on a country, makes for interesting reading.
@John Kennedy: That doesn’t make it ‘all a scam’ John. Noone has ever claimed that Wind power produces 100% of installed capacity. It’s generally about 25%. Which is about what we are using of our installed gas capacity today, that doesn’t make gas a scam. Wind will never be stable enough an energy source to provide 100% of our energy but it can help us begin to offset our reliance on foreign bough environment destroying fossil fuels.
@Humphrey Harold Haddington: air travel sccoints for 2% of greenhouse gases.
Why do you lie?
@Yurty Tim: won’t make a blind bit of difference what Ireland does except fill Governments pockets with this “tax”
@Gus Sheridan: So what I think you are saying Gus is ‘feck it, we’re goosed anyway, let’s really wreck the gaff now”. Is it impossible for us to try something, however small that maybe, and hope that other countries might follow?
@Bilbo Baggins: I meant carbon taxes are a scam, so what is your plan, or are you aware of any viable power source to replace our dependence on “environment destroying fossil fuels”.
@Bilbo Baggins:
@John Kennedy: My children wouldnt understand the goings on of electricity, too busy with Thomas the tank and iggle piggle. Do we continue to rip up thousands of acres of the Midlands and/or import and burn dirty coal which is bad for the planet and us as we breath all the muck it spits out in, do we go nuclear and risk a chernobyl or do we at least do every single thing a go until we get it right?
@Yurty Tim: Our total electricity generation capacity, from all sources, is approx 5500Mw, in the last year India has installed 5585Mw of coal-fired generating capacity.
Here is an update on what the world is planning on coal powered power stations.
The EU has 468 plants building 27 more for a total of 495
Turkey has 56 plants building 93 more total 149
South Africa has 79 building 24 more total 103
India has 589 building 446 more total 1036
Philippines has 19 building 60 more total 79
South Korea has 58 building 26 more total 84
Japan has 90 building 45 more total 135
AND CHINA has 2363 building 1171 more total 3534
This is just the main countries, and may not be an exhaustive count even in those countries..
@Humphrey Harold Haddington: Sorry triple H, it reads like I was having a go at you, I’m not. I’m just saying we need to do something, anything, no matter how small, it might set the ball rolling, it might not but at least we can tell future generations that we tried
@John Kennedy: The last carbon tax certainly was a scam, carbon taxes would have to be ring fenced into feeding more sustainable resources “what’s your plan” why do I need to have a plan? I’m no more an expert on energy generation than you are. We pay over 50million in fines annually just to keep our peat plants operating. You recon that’s a good idea? you think because there are other coal plants being built around the world we should do noting about our carbon generation?
@Yurty Tim: John doesn’t believe in everyone doing their part. He also doesn’t care that for instance people in India have one third the emmissions that people in Ireland do. Anything to justify taking the easy route
@John Kennedy: Loads of coal burning going on, sure is. I’m not getting what you are saying though, is it we all (the whole world) keep burning until there is nothing left to burn or do you think we should at least try things to put an end to all the burning?
@Yurty Tim: it’s you people having all the children that should be paying the extra carbon tax. The single biggest contributor to climate change outside of industry
Looks like none of us have solved climate change today… I shall chat with you all on the next climate change story….
@Yurty Tim: nothing like a little “signalling” then???
@Tom McHugh: This is a discussion/debate Tom, I believe that humans are causing global warming/climate change or whatever you want to call it. We have to change our ways or there will be dire consequences, I’m no expert and I don’t believe anyone on this tread is, I’m just asking what the fook do we do, how can we get the ball rolling and be far less destructive. If you want to say I’m virtue signalling that’s fine. I also think anybody who is a climate change denier is a few spokes short of a wheel.
@Cocker: Kids are the biggest contributor to climate change outside of industry? How so?
@Yurty Tim: You honestly don’t know the answer to that? It’s simple really. The more people there are on the planet, the more demand there is for fossil fuels and other natural resources. Raising a child, especially here in a western society, is by far the single most significant contribution you as a human can make to your carbon footprint. Raising multiple children? And then of course every child successfully raised has its own carbon footprint and then decides to have a family of its own. And on and on ad infinatum.
Want to save the planet? Stop having kids. It’s a subject that will never be touched by politicians for obvious reasons.
@Humphrey Harold Haddington: A recent article on cruise ships emissions. https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/luxury-cruise-giant-emits-10-times-more-air-pollution-all-europe%E2%80%99s-cars-%E2%80%93-study
@Yurty Tim: No, I just recognise the reality, for the foreseeable future we have no reliable alternative to fossil fuel as a means of electricity generation, so all the carbon taxes in the world will not change that fact.
As of 12.55 p.m. wind generation has risen to 384Mw and we are importing 530Mw from the U.K. to keep the show on the road.
@John Kennedy: The carbon tax is an effort to get people to try reduce the amount of fossil fuels they use. Lots of people are paying to upgrade homes so as to avoid higher bills. When you increase the cost of using fossil fuels you increase the incentive to use as little as possilbe. Also you keep harping on about the amount of wind energy we’re generating. It doesn’t matter if its 50% or 5% its still means we’re using less than if it all came from fossil fuels. Less is better with emissions and if you try to argue against that you will just be showing your ignorance on the subject.
@Yurty Tim: my personal Co2 footprint is less that a sheep or cow why do I have to pay more tax
@Cocker: Never thought of that Cocker and its a solution that can’t be argued with, you are right. But if we stop having children there will be no more humans, the planet would survive and become an amazing place, but we are trying to Co exist with the planet, not kill ourselves off
@Cocker: Can’t argue with that Cocker. But the plan is to Co exist with the earth, not intentional mass human extinction
@Yurty Tim: No one doubts that Yurty, and yes we’re all responsible but really lets step up the auld corpo’ tax for once and give everyone a break from the sticky-tape, ’3 year plan’ approach to running a country. Be lovely to not have to get into the car to travel 25km into the city everyday, I’d pay double whatever their asking if I could get on a train. Can I? no. Maybe in a decade? no. In my lifetime? A solution for any of our infrastructure problems? ahhhh no. Does burning money count as a fossil fuel?
It’s a tax grab with carbon in front of it,
It will have zero affect on climate change, the economics of it prove it , if you believe this tax will affect your climate then you are all delusional big time.
@Ned: 100 percent, its a tax grab to pay for the public sector pay and pensions bill which is out of control…..expect a lot more of these tax grabs in the coming years and its got nothing to do with the environment I tell you now
That makes no sense, if your going to charge a carbon tax, then invest the revenue in cleaner technologies. Don’t give it to people so they can afford more fossil fuels, just make renewable energy cheaper for everyone.
@Robert Conneely: I burn oil and coal to heat my house, I would go green but I can’t afford the initial cost. I also drive to work as it saves me about 1 hour each way compared to public transport (also cheaper). This tax will make my journey more expensive, which in turn will give me less money for solar panels. It would make more sense for me to give up my job and get some of these handouts.
@Robert Conneely: its supposed to be a deterrent tax, like a toll bridge. The problem is, like tolls, the tax should not come before alternatives are in place. Ie: I get paid handsomely by my employer (currently contracting to a state agency) to drive a private car everywhere, while my bike (too dangerous to commute) and escooter (risk of confiscation by guards) lie idle. I can burn enough fuel to keep my family warm for a lifetime lower than the cost of renewable energy, as there are no community heating schemes. All we have here is burn and tax.
@Mick paisley: Yes Mike, I understand your point, but you are missing mine. Use the tax revenue to further reduce the initial outlay for people in the form of grant increases.
What’s the point in taxing someone for using a fuel and then giving to someone else so they can burn the same fuel? It just negates the whole point of the tax.
They could make it a requirement that any social housing are built to passive house standards, thereby reducing the cost on lower income families and reducing our emissions.
@Renton Burke: deterrent tax ? So, to deter people from going to work ? From heating their homes ?
Why do you want to deter them from that ?
@Robert Conneely: I totally get your point, but it will never happen, especially not for middle income families. The pensioners are most likely to get out and vote, the social welfare class are most likely to protest, these 2 groups will get looked after 1st. There are social houses in my area getting €10k or more worth of work done for free. This is where our tax goes, yet when I can’t afford to do the same, I will get taxed more and more as I’m a polluter. For me to make my house green, it might take 15-20 years to recoup the initial outlay, never mind the fact that I don’t happen to have 20k lying around.
@Mick paisley: Try it and you will quickly find out that these “handouts” leave you still below the poverty line.
@Renton Burke: Electric scooters are classed are mechanically propelled vehicles and as such are treated as one. Also damn dangerous silent on the road on the footpath all over the place. as regards an outside contractor working for the state there is a waste of tax money. Outside contractors and selling off state jobs
@Gary Kearney: Then I really want to know how the folk around my area can sit outside their newly insulated houses with cans of cider on a Tuesday afternoon. Having the banter over the fence with the neighbours, every house in the row has a satellite dish hanging outside too.
When 100 companies/corporations are responsible for 71% of the serious greenhouse gas emissions, taxing ordinary people as if they are responsible is a cop out. Everyone has to do their bit or it’s a waste of time. In the meantime, deforestation continues unabated all over the world, fracking continues destroying land, rivers and water tables. Yet the solution is tax ordinary people.
@Dave Doyle: Actually forests in Europe have grown 30% in the last 100 years and continue to grow. With many countries all over the world commuting to expand forests.
@Dave Doyle: but I do think that we all need to take responsibility for our part and that these funds should go directly into renewable energy production, sustainable technologies at home level and improved public transport, and charging spots for electric vehicles. The money should enable everyone including corporations to be more sustainable
@Dave Doyle: so what you seem to be saying is, once you can see everyone else in the world is doing their bit then you’ll do your bit too? Good strategy.
@Pseud O’Nym: That’s not what i said at all.
@Pseud O’Nym: Here’s something to consider. If the USA gave 6% of it’s land mass over to the production and processing of Hemp. The USA would be energy independent. A clean, renewable source of energy.
Are you getting the picture now?
@Dave Doyle: I’m sick of this stat being thrown out as an excuse not to act. Have you looked into it at all or is it just a sound bite to throw out there?
100% of those 100 companies are fossil fuel producers and sellers so unless you’ve found a way to remove fossil fuels from your life then you’re culpable – everyone is
@tofu for tea: So you’re sick of the truth? Of those 100 companies/corporations only one is a fossil fuel corporation.
@Dave Doyle: You’re either purposefully and perniciously spreading lies or you are woefully uninformed.
Link to the report:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-pvpXB8rp67dmhmsueWaUczHS5XyPy4p/view
100% OF THE COMPANIES ARE FOSSIL FUEL PRODUCERS AND/OR SUPPLIERS
That means you too must take responsibilty – you know when you fill up the car tank, take that cheap flight, drive instead of walk, turn up the heat instead of putting on a jumper. You are paying these companies
@tofu for tea: Done a little more checking for your information. This report lists the countries and the corporations responsible for a huge amount of the greenhouse gas emissions. Most listed are fossil fuel producers. No one ordinary person is responsible or culpable, but ordinary people are made responsible, are going to see taxes piled on them, see forced lifestyle change and control. Not one bit of that will stop or prevent the corporations shown raping the earth and causing the emissions. I mentioned the fact that if the USA gave 6% of it’s land mass over to the production and processing of Hemp the USA would be energy independent. Clean, renewable energy. Bio-Diesel made from hemp is less toxic than table salt. Hemp produces food, paper, textiles, cosmetics medicines that cure, not treat, building materials. It also makes biodegradable plastics, but it biodegrades in 90 days so some tweaking needs to be done there to make it a viable alternative to the plastics now used. Hemp grows from seed to maturity in 90-100 days. Needs little water, no pesticides, no herbicides, is heat and rot resistant. The processing of hemp will create industries and employment. There is a viable alternative.
The report on Greenhouse gas emissions and who is responsible.
https://b8f65cb373b1b7b15feb-c70d8ead6ced550b4d987d7c03fcdd1d.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/cms/reports/documents/000/002/327/original/Carbon-Majors-Report-2017.pdf?1499691240
@Dave Doyle: You just linked to the same report I replied to you with!
Your comment:
“Of those 100 companies/corporations only one is a fossil fuel corporation.”
Are you going to retract that comment – because it is wrong.
100% of those companies are fossil fuel producers and suppliers.
Do you think people can continue to keep up the status quo and ignore reality? We need massive systemic and behavioural changes on a scale we’ve never seen before
@tofu for tea: There are other reports, one which names exxon corporation as the only fossil fuel corporation on it. Lots of reports available. Not one blames people. Corporations/companies and their investors are responsible. Didn’t Cuffe of the Green party have 1.6 million invested in oil companies until he was called out on it.
Blaming people is the usual going after the line of least resistance.
I notice you have nothing to say about the alternative i highlighted in my reply.
More bull to have us accept these scam taxes.. Rich will get richer and poorest poorer.. Our input will have no impact what so ever. FFG will tax us to oblivion with this scam to maintain stays quo..
Carbon tax is nonsense, tax coal, close peat & coal power stations. Allow wind farms on Kish sandbanks . Build more offshore wind farms. Promote electric cars, trucks & buses BIG time. Re negotiate our carbon emission ( look at USA, China & German coal pollution ).
The Propaganda is insane and judging by the surge in votes for the Green party it seems to be working.
@Rocky Stefan: There was NO surge in support for the Greens 5% of council seats and 2 x MEPS and one of them by the seat of her pants. See where their support is as soon as carbon taxes are introduced.
@M Stuart: what percentage more is that than before the election?
@M Stuart: yes the greens support a carbon tax, but the one in the works is being planned by FG – the oireachtas committee on climate action headed by Fine Gael’s Hildegard Naughton have been planning this for a long time. It is also a recommendation of the citizens assembly, but don’t let that get in the way of your whinge
Get the hi viz ready…
@Ron: are you finally going to do some work?
@Ron: you are more likely to be hit by a car or bus skimming by you when wearing hi viz when sharing the same space in a city, so be careful.
There hasn’t been a headline like this since Stalin or Hitler..
Let’s invent and increase taxes, it will help the poor
JUST SAY Another TAX ANY EXCUSE TO SCREW THE PEOPLE
Can anyone give examples as to when the ESRI have been correct? And when have the government ever listened to it except when it suits?
Taxation is the only answer politician’s have. They will not invest the billions needed to cha he they way we do things as they have o clear vision of what they want so on till there is a vision tax is the easy way out. No leadership
Just where will the money generated by this proposed carbon tax go? Wil it be ring-fenced to be spent on actually reducing carbon levels or just another cash cow like the motor tax that goes nowhere anything to do with any kind of a motor?
We are being led to believe that slapping a Carbon Tax on the 4.7 million Irish, who are responsible for some 0.13% of the global greenhouse gas emissions will save the planet from destruction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhouse_gas_emissions
I do agree that we need to do our part, but to use this new tax as a cash cow and to pay penalties to the EU for not reducing our emissions as agreed, is quite rich.
We are way below the main offenders such as China, the USA, India, Russia and also below countries such as Germany, France and Poland but we are being led to believe that this new tax will save the world.
Ensure that this new tax will not serve any other purpose other to make Ireland more emission friendly and people might buy into it but to use it as yet another cash cow should get people into the streets, but again, will people just bend over and take this new tax just like all of the others?
Fighting Irish…
@George Vladisavljevic: It’s not a proposed tax, we already pay it, check the electric bill and you can see it for example…the proposal is to increase it so we all start noticing it (a lot!!!)…it’s frustrating to live in an era where we have a financial “emergency” and the powers that be introduce a tax to fix it (USC etc.) now we have a so-called climate “emergency” and we have a new tax to fix it (Carbon tax): if a meteor was hurtling toward the Earth they’d bring in a “meteor tax” so we can all make ourselves feel we’re doing something to fix it before it hits us :-(
@George Vladisavljevic: You totally malign the French. They get 80% of their power from nuclear, this being the only realistic solution to this problem. Not old nuclear, but the new molten salt types. http://www.bene.ie Wind is crazy. Terrible load factor. What will happen when we get a three week, winter blocking high, over all Western Europe.
Global warming, climate change, greenhouse gases, i’m not saying they are not a fact, or a danger. But given the “solutions” proposed i.e. tax and forced lifestyle change and control. I’m throwing this link in for consideration.
https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/edward-snowden-global-warming-is-an-invention-of-the-cia/comment-page-1/?fbclid=IwAR1E0-qUeJKMGjhqC0z86ePd-_W4hmJlOpKNCFjXuuI3GSR1k2QsQWMTYtI#comments
@Dave Doyle: you’re some plank and you’re getting up votes?! I honestly despair
@tofu for tea: I can guess what you are when all you have to add are insults.
@Dave Doyle: And your contribution is Alex Joneseque conspiracy bull?!
How come the journal did not mention the RTE INVESTIGATES PROGRAMME LAST NIGHT on the ESB LEAKS?????? 10% REDUCTION IS A TOTAL LIE
Rubbish, tact the companies that are making, for example, all this excess packaging. I and I’m sure you didn’t ask for it, so stop taxing the end user I.e. they always go for the low hanging fruit. Why are companies allowed to produce items that are not recyclable or compostable? The companies are the ones that should be hit with carbon taxes, but no, it’s easier to hit us.
@Eugene Doyle: Companies should for sure be hit. Supermarkets for example, there is no need for at least half the packaging of stuff on the shelves
@Yurty Tim: Exactly!!
@Yurty Tim: in actual fact, government, with all this green brainwashing, should be saying this production of non recyclables and non compostable goods is no longer acceptable and will stop from a certain date. If the company can’t change ways, then they are out of business. The conundrum however is the massive loss of jobs, which when put to the green brainwashers, they dismiss it, but have no answer for it. Electric cars are worse for the environment and will be prove eventually. From the making of the battery to the charging of it to the disposing of it will eventually be proven to be a bogus green solution. Remember a short few years ago, the government was saying that diesel was better for the environment, now its public enemy no. 1. Anyway, rock on Ireland as it saves the planet!!
@Eugene Doyle: Are carbon taxes incorporated within utility bills not fully deductible from a companies bottom line charge to tax ?
@Eugene Doyle: I’m sold on the electric cars, I don’t know if they will prove in time that they are worse for the environment, but at least we are giving it a go and time will prove you and me right or wrong. As for the massive loss of jobs, yes it’s awful when people lose their jobs, but id take the temporary loss of jobs if it helps prevent, stop, slow down climate change. Advancement in technology since the beginning of time has always caused job loss, but the unemployed will eventually find work in newer cleaner technology as it will require people to operate it
@Yurty Tim: you need the entire world to be on board for REALISTIC implementation of measures, that’s simply not going to happen because of the unraveling of world economics, poorer – 3rd world countries etc etc. It’s one planet and there are psychos in Ireland who believe that a little dot of an island is going to save the planet. Even the extreme liberal left have nothing to shout about now, so they are currently robbing Eamon Ryan’s wardrobe in Leinster House, they’ve suddenly become green, what a joke. The part that’s not a joke is that you and I will be paying for this farcical ideal.
@Eugene Doyle: Us humans need to find a solution to what we are doing and how can we attempt to right the wrongs already done. I’m 99.99% sure the proposed taxes collected will disappear down a money muncher machine, nom nom, so is there anything we can do? We are a tiny dot on the map, correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t we the first country in the world to introduce a smoking ban in the workplace? Now the smoking ban is all over the developed world. Every country I’ve been to on holidays or for a weekend city break since around 2006 now has a smoking ban. We led the way there, we invented the smoking ban, we can at least try to do something
What a load of bull road tax should be going towards new roads but Irish water are getting it
This might well be the first time we have have stone wall propaganda given to us by th ESRI. To say that poorer families who cannot afford solar water heating or PV panels etc will benefit is the high of lying. The families burning timber and coal would rather not but how in the name of god will taxing them into poverty help
Everyone on here commenting on where the money should go…do ye honestly think deep down that the money will be mainly used for any environmental improvements…don’t forget where the road tax is going..certainly ain’t going back to the over priced roads..if ye honestly think this current government give a fiddlers about you or the country ye are delusional..yes people have some brilliant suggestions but they won’t go no where near environmental sector.
Personally I don’t mind paying this. Co2 is now 415ppm (parts per million) in the atmosphere. Last time it was this high was over 2.5 millions years ago and there was trees in the Antarctic and see levels were much higher. Not good
@david hynes: you must be the oldest human in the universe,
@david hynes: you must be the oldest human in the universe,
@david hynes: I mind paying this. This will be just another revenue stream. We’ll be bled dry while big business wont see a hit to their profits. And the incompetence of govts is mind boggling- if u gave them all the money in the world they’d still squander it on something trivial.
@david hynes: the point is you can probably afford to pay it. The very basics of recent studies show that most homes that pollute are low income because they cannot afford upgrades. The grants etc are verging on pointless because most install now bump up the price to increase grant profit from the installers. I’m in the trade and if someone had the time to do a proper cost analysis on parts used versus the final costs pre grant there would be outrage.
The department of environment needs to directly take over the costing purchasing and installs or we are at nothing as a country
@david hynes: not sure where you pulled those rubbishy facts from but Antarctica has been completely frozen for closer to 15 million years. A process the began 35 million years ago
@david hynes: were fg in government then as well ?
ERSI should be ashamed of themselves. This is propaganda to soften up the electorate before the introduction of a tax in the next budget.
This extra money needs to be invested to further our carbon reduction. Otherwise it’s just another tax.
SEAI energy use report 2018 reveal the facts about Energy use in Ireland.
https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/Energy-in-Ireland-2018.pdf
This is an older report but gives a breakdown of transport modes to make sense of the references in the 2018 report.
https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/Energy-in-Transport-2014-report.pdf
Ok let’s cut the bull. Taxing Joe Soap isn’t goin to solve this problem. The massive corporations and world governments NEED to change their way of thinking. Human welfare HAS to come before profit.
@Kath Noonan: The real solution is population control but no-one wants to talk about that because as long as populations grow, bankers are happy.
So it COULD benefit poorer families, what bull, any tax increase goes directly into a pay increase for TD’s and their pals…
Where have we heard that line before….. or maybe they will introduce it as a “ temporary measure “ until the planet is so fcking green it will blind us….
Hahahahahahaha , I’m splitting my side’s laughing here.
YOU voted for them and now WE are paying the price.
I hope they triple the tax and you shower of sanctimonious wingers really feel it.
Because you bloody well deserve it !!!
You should get cheaper bills when switching to airtricity as they are a greener energy supplier. When all these heat pumps are installed with tariffs and carbon taxes, it’s prob be cheaper to stick with oil or gas
I wish the earth was flat!
Think I’d just step off the edge at this stage!
Lies lies and lies
Actions do need to be taken to safeguard the environment and reduce emissions but anybody who truly believes that a carbon tax on middle income earners in Ireland is going to make a damned bit of difference or that the increased revenue will in anyway be used towards green initiatives is seriously deluded and needs to cop on… This new tax is just the water tax or universal social charge or income tax or VAT or property tax under a different name it will go to a common fund to be squandered by politicians, pay back bailout loans and into the pension pot… Also I don’t understand why people are supporting this … just because you make driving a 10-year-old diesel ludicrously expensive doesn’t mean that someone will suddenly have 30 grand to spend on a hybrid… just because you make heating and electricity nigh-unaffordable to people already struggling with a massive tax burden and rising costs of living doesn’t mean they’ll suddenly have thousands of euro to fork over on solar panels…and if you think our carbon tax is going to be in any way used towards incentivising this, you’re an idiot
Taxing the heating of the home is an entirely unfair way of dealing with the issue, and will simply result in poorer families who are already struggling being a bit colder in winter while the better off can afford to install more efficient heating systems or pay extra to continue pumping filth out their chimneys. If they were serious about emissions reductions they would introduce an interest free loan system to low income working families for the purchase of more energy efficient appliances and heating systems. Repayments could be made through a state company such as ESB Networks by adding the monthly repayments to the standing charge. The savings made on heating costs through extra efficiency would make repayments less of a burden and extra employment would be created by installation companies meaning added income tax for the State. Ultimately though, it would lead to emissions reduction which is the whole point. Unless the goal is tax revenue rather than emissions reduction.
@Tommy Roche: “add repayments to the standing charge ” and then add 23% vat to it at the end of the bill !!!
m sitting here watching a developer build 13 new houses , from what i have seen there are little or no energy efficiency measures being built into these house what so ever – each has a chimney ,so will have a fireplace or wood burner – each has an oil tank and burner installed – so the heating system is to be oil fired , there is not so much a a single solar panel being installed ,even to heat the water , the houses are twin walled block built with a 4 inch cavity -no insulation between the cavity at present and the build is up to ‘roof ‘ stage so unless they are going to put poly bead insulation in after 2nd fix stage there will be no wall insulation at all – the windows are upvc double glazed and front doors are bog standard wood with glass panels in the top 1/4 . so little or no insulation there either. sewerage system is a communal septic tank , one large tank to which all the houses in the estate are connected – when these ‘new’ builds are finished that will be 32 houses going into one tank – every few months a tanker comes along and empties the septic tank ,takes the waste to a manhole further up the road and discharges the waste into the towns main sewer system . when we have a period of heavy rain or bad weather this tank and the area it is situated in has a tendency to flood to around 18 inchs deep – the tank has problems dealing with the sewage from the houses presently built and occupied (19 houses) with ‘backing up’ a common problem –yet the local authority /irish water seem to think that adding a further 13 houses to this system wont be problematic – the same goes for the water supply itself – water pressure is very low at the best of times – add a further 13 houses to that and it will be down to a trickle . my point in telling you this is that once again the ordinary citizens of this country are going to be hit in the pocket -meanwhile developers ,local authorities and government bodies are allowed to carry on with the same old building practices , lack of foresight and shoddy administration that has caused this country so many problems in the past . knowing full well that these ‘carbon issues’ and climate issues were coming along -surely it would not have been beyond them to make sure that any new developments had at least SOME energy efficient measures built in – that the heating /hot water systems were not reliant on burning wood ,coal ,turf or oil and that water supply systems would be adequate and waste water disposal systems safe and not a risk to peoples health . but no ! why bother ? instead we will just stick an increase on one or more levies or taxs to cover the cost !!! to many ‘vested interests’ involved for them to sort the problems before their created .
A Fine Gael _Green coalition and you can sell your car .
Why does anybody bother working in this country when it’s a general policy that scroungers should live the same lifestyle as working couples
But like everyone will hurt from the carbon tax increase and some cannot afford it. The government need to give us no tax on ecars and no vrt on ecars
@Mickomacko: and just HOW are you going to run these e .cars ? if even 10% of drivers switched to e vehicles the national grid would not be able to cope with the extra demand on supply ! the governments solution would be to re-open the mothballed power stations around the country – power stations that run on coal ,gas ,turf ,wood oil -the very things that the government is trying to stop us from using to heat our homes and run our current vehicles ! how many reliable quick charging points are there in garages across the country ? or do they expect people to knock on some strangers door and ask ” how are ya missus – any chance i could borrow a bit of your leccy for an hour or so ” as usual here the politico’s are putting the cart before the horse – no infrastructure in place to make electric vehicles viable for large numbers of users – and as we have seen in the past with other issues – we cant trust any of our political parties to deliver that infrastructure in a timely or financially viable way .
How is money going to fix the problem?? Start targeting the big firms and construction companies the waste is unreal
Got 10 messages 2weeks ago had to pay for plastic bag70cents 9item s were in plastic milk bread meat etc. Did suppliers have to pay 70cents for their supplies.? Oh sugar was in paper bag we don’t make sugar here any more
For 200000 thousands years out planet had 1billion people in last 200 years we have gone to 7.4 billion there is the problem in next hundred yrs we will need new planet(Steve Hawkins)
Bulls***
What a. whole lot of downright rubbish. We have had a carbon tax for ten years now and don’t need another cosmetic waste of time on the lines of the water charge, take on one hand and give back with the other when a vote is needed.
The existing tax of course is the PSO, which everyone can see at the bottom of their electric bill. Comes to €400m. a year and is mostly given to corporates involved in big wind and big grid and over a hundred of it to keeping the old peat stations going, with biomass imported from some other continent, instead of being sustainably grown here, instead of growing more subsidised cattle.
If we want another carbon tax, it needs to be a UN administered one on aviation fuel, where at present there is none. The proceeds need to go for pushing forward new nuclear, the only workable answer to our climate issues. Nothing to do with the old “bomb” version, Homer Simpson, mushroon clouds and all that. Mass produced, modular, molten salt. http://www.bene.ie
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