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Is the EU actually heading towards having its own army?

This week the EU and Nato made their first ever joint declaration on security.

ONE PIECE OF literature cited by the official Vote Leave campaign in the run up to the Brexit vote came from a group called ‘Veterans for Britain’.

In a leaflet the group – made up of former high-ranking military personnel – made a pretty definite claim about the future of the UK’s security:

If we stay, the EU is planning the creation of an EU Army. The EU Parliament is in favour of it. This would mean that the UK would lose control of its defence and its international standing would be diminished.

leaflet The leaflet in question Veterans for Britain Veterans for Britain

In the wake of the Leave vote a number of its pre-referendum promises have been called into doubt – with doubts over the £350 million being sent to Europe and Britain’s ability to control its own borders. 

However, with the case of a possible European Army – things are a little bit more complicated.

So are there plans in place for an EU Army?

While there is nothing immediate on the horizon, the EU has been mulling over its security options for a long time.

Back in 1998, then British PM Tony Blair and French president Jacques Chirac bilaterally endorsed the Petersberg tasks – a measure which broadened the circumstances in which the political union can take military action.

In a joint statement on the matter, EU heads of state said that it was agreed that the EU:

Must have the capacity for autonomous action, backed by credible military forces, the means to decide to use them, and a readiness to do so.

That would seem to be pretty clear about the aims of the EU – and concern about it isn’t just the conservation of leave campaigners.

“Despite plans for the creation of a Common European Army, Irish citizens deeply value our neutrality and oppose any Irish role in the growing militarisation of Europe,” said Sinn Féin MEP Matt Carty ahead of a summit this week to examine further ties between NATO and the EU.

The overlap between the two organisations is significant, with 21 of the EU’s 28 member states members of the military alliance.

20160707_NATO Statistia Statistia

While Carthy called upon Taoiseach Enda Kenny to oppose any closer ties between the two organisations – it would seem they are now coming closer together.

The summit, which took place in Warsaw, Poland during the last two weeks, saw the EU and NATO sign their first ever joint declaration on security, with it stating that the time has come to “give new impetus and new substance to the NATO-EU strategic partnership”.

“It is a blatant contradiction of the principle of Irish neutrality,” said Carthy, “and the wishes of the Irish people who wish Ireland pursue a foreign policy based on peace making and human values.”

So is an EU Army on the horizon?

While bold statements about further cooperation with Nato might raise a few eyebrows, it is unlikely that a fully-fledged EU Army will be a reality any time soon.

Currently, the EU runs six military missions and 11 civilian operations across Europe, Africa and the Middle East. However – unlike UN peacekeepers – troops working under the coordination of the EU serve under the banner of their own countries. 

map juil2016

 

Ultimately, decisions on further expansion of EU military power lies in the hands of

In a report on the EU’s Global Strategy at the end of last month, the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Federica Mogherini notes that the EU has “always prided itself on soft power” and makes no mention of the creation of an EU Army.

Read: Former Nato general warns that the west is risking a nuclear war with Russia

Also: The EU’s economic head honcho doesn’t think the UK will go through with its huge corporate tax cut

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117 Comments
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    Mute von
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:03 PM

    And we can’t join as we are Peace keepers and i hope it stays that way.

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    Mute Cosmo Kramer
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:16 PM

    If enough money is thrown at our Politicians they’ll sign up for anything.. Don’t forget what the FG senator said “What’s in it for me?”

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:30 PM

    Will the E.U. force us to give up neutrality, that would make sense?

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:50 PM

    Alois…I find it peculiar that people think that we are neutral……we are not, it’s a perception that has been cultivated by media and has misled the public. It is not in the constitution….and as such any Irish Government can sign us up to any EU army without a referendum.

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    Mute Sean Manning
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:55 PM

    Do you think ISIS give a crap if Ireland is neutral ? they’ve already murdered Irish citizens

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:55 PM

    Von, we have already signed up as we voted for the Lisbon Treaty. Didn’t you read the small print?

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    Mute Joe McCormac
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:57 PM

    Well I hope there is a European army and that we are part of it. Neutrality is a myth anyway. It’s about time we played our part on the world stage.
    Brexit has made Britain weaker and Europe weaker. This is good news for Putin.
    We need a strong European defence army.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:00 PM

    Al, if we were really neutral then we wouldn’t have an army or one that is under the UN badge?

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    Mute Lorem Ipsum
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:03 PM

    Von what are you on about? We can’t join because we are peace keepers? That sentence doesn’t make any sense. What do you think you’re saying? Do you think you’re staying some factual legal position?

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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:09 PM

    The world needs more neutral countries. With armies comes war.

    61
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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:10 PM

    Joe why is it good news for Putin, they remain side said a Brexit would make Putin happy and yet Putin is an excuse used by western propagandawhen people want to make people think a certain way and Putin has nothing to do with it. I am fed up with people blaming Russia for everything. In fact he isn’t as bad as Cameron or Obama, people do not look ay what people do but are so willing to believe what people say about them doing and it is time people grew up.
    All Nato is, is a market to sell U.S. weapons to and they need an enemy in order as an excuse to sell more weapons. Cold War propaganda nonsense.
    Keep it up and they might get what they want, a nuclear war?

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:16 PM

    Al, that may be true but how long do you think such a government would last as result ,? , we may be the best football supporters in europe , but our patience is wearing very thin lately with the dreadful corruption and treachery we are now being made aware of on a weekly basis.
    how long do these people think we will remain , peaceful , fun-loving , easily manipulated , easily fooled ,??.
    not much longer I think.

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    Mute ray.farrelly
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:17 PM

    Will you be signing up Joe?

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    Mute Anonymous Man
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:25 PM

    Hitlers original plan of taking over Europe is finally coming true. He’d be so proud of Merkel.

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:31 PM

    RJ…about as long as a Government signing us up to 40 years of private debt that was not ours.

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:32 PM

    @von. Irish neutrality and peace depends on good will of NATO and safe region were Ireland is geographically located.. In Ukraine we were neutral as well and even gave up Nukes and than we were attacked by one of the countries which signed a security warrant with our country and the rest of countries who signed did very little to stop Russia, especially in the first year. I think majority of countries and people in the world are Peace keepers but very often depend on were your country is located and what type of neighbours you have. No offence guys but when somebody from my Irish friends tell me “we are neutral” I recommend to have a look at the size and equipment of Armed Forces and globalization of Irish economy. And neutrality is not always good as well. Ireland was neutral in WW2. When a person stay on the side and watch some thugs killing some people and say “Ou I am against violence so I do not engage” not always make you a Peacekeeper .

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    Mute John Considine
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:41 PM

    @Al Ca: Not constitutionally neutral but the EU must come to us again if they want us in their army. Article 29, section 4, subsection 9° of the Constitution states:

    The State shall not adopt a decision taken by the European Council to establish a common defence pursuant to Article 42 of the Treaty on European Union where that common defence would include the State.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:44 PM

    Alois..true…Putin has actually bought time for a State – Syria – beleagured by NATO,the US,Saudi Arabia….

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:53 PM

    Oleksandr…….Ireland was neutral in WW2 because the country was completely broke and still recovering from it’s war of independence and civil war….the bitterness and suffering were still fresh in everyone’s minds…..and if the country sided with the UK…there was the risk of another civil war.
    Our history with that UK at the time dictated our stance. Nothing is clear in the moment….but it’s so easy to look back and criticise knowing the result was good…..a different matter for those at the time who lost
    loved ones in WW1, War of Independence and the bitter Civil War…there is only so much people can take.

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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:59 PM

    Oleksander there are no restrictions on Irish troops serving abroad, they are free to join foreign militaries.

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    Mute bingo
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:16 AM

    Reg Keys and Tony Blair. 20 seconds in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy_eddYAiFU

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:37 AM

    @Mr Phil In this case it won’t be Irish Army but Army of the foreign country.

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:47 AM

    @Al Ca. I know Irish history quite well and if you look at Ukraine we had exactly same problems. WW1 and some Ukrainians are fighting for Austrian Hungarian Empire and some for Russian,Communist Revolution in 1917,) short independence, famine brought by Stalin (around 5mln dead), WW2 again around 5mln dead,

    17
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    Mute AlanH -AFC
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:53 AM

    We don’t have an Army , we have a Defence Force. Big difference

    18
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    Mute William T Smith
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    Jul 10th 2016, 1:07 AM

    Oleksander, Ireland did the right thing staying neutral during WW2, Dev was a cute hoor ,he knew siding with Britain could have started another civil war here. Thankfully we stayed “on the side” as you put it, unlike the thugs in the 14th Waffen SS Division who became the 1st Division of the Ukrainian National Army. Away back under your Nazi rock instead of coming on here questioning our neutrality.

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    Mute bingo
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    Jul 10th 2016, 1:30 AM

    Oleksander, Ireland was a very poor country – the conflict was happening very far away – we didn’t have a military to speak of really. Also, many Irish did fight under foreign armies of their own volition. Ukraine was in the heart of it – people picked sides and at points they switched sides. Did the official position of Ukraine switch throughout WWII or was there ever an official position?

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    Mute bingo
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    Jul 10th 2016, 1:38 AM

    William, Oleksandr is a Nazi because he ‘questioned’ our neutrality? It’s possible to disagree strongly with someone William without resorting to this kind of nonsense.

    21
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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Jul 10th 2016, 1:47 AM

    @bingo Official position of Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic as a part of USSR as well as Nationalists who after brief moment joining NAZI in 2 monthes turned against them.

    12
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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Jul 10th 2016, 1:51 AM

    William T Smith. So how is the weather in Leningrad? BTW I have 1 grandfather and 1 great-grandfather and good few more relatives who died fighting against NAZI. But we really took a very long way from the question on EU army and Irish neutrality.

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    Mute William T Smith
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    Jul 10th 2016, 3:10 AM

    I wouldn’t know about the weather in Leningrad Oleksandr, while I’m genuinely sorry your relatives gave their lives fighting during the war, it was you who brought up the subject of WW2. You say you know Irish history quite well, perhaps you should brush up on your own, the Ukrainians fought as part the SS from 1943 to 1945. A bit longer than 2 months, they formed the Ukrainian National Army just in time to surrender to the western allies.

    12
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    Mute William T Smith
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    Jul 10th 2016, 3:47 AM

    bingo, read more of his posts on here and other articles,he supports the Svoboda Party regime in Kiev that saw the overthrow of an elected government. Svoboda has direct links to the Neo-Nazi Social National Party of Ukraine.

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    Mute king Tut
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    Jul 10th 2016, 8:31 AM

    Well said Oleksandr

    10
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    Mute Patrick Brompton
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    Jul 10th 2016, 9:19 AM

    And because Ireland expected that Germany would win WW2 and unite the Free State with Northern Ireland.

    10
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 10:06 AM

    Phil, that is partially correct but you should clarify your point unless people would think it normal that Irish soldiers are wanabee mercenaries. I have yet to see a statistic for Irish joining the British Armed Forces and suspect that this is undisclosed for security reasons.

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    Mute Joe McCormac
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    Jul 10th 2016, 10:09 AM

    Putin’s behaviour in the Ukraine I think is positive enough of his intentions. Also ask anyone who has family in Latvia or Lithuania if their happy about the troop and tank build up on their borders.
    We should be able to protect our European borders and we should be involved.

    9
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    Mute Mr Phil Officer
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    Jul 10th 2016, 11:01 AM
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    Mute brian boru
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    Jul 10th 2016, 11:09 AM

    Irish neutrality is an ideal that will never be achieved but always strived for. My biggest issue with Europe is not the lack of democracy but the erosion to our neutrality that takes place because of our membership. Neutrality is the rule book that every Irish diplomat, member of the armed service and civil servant must take into work with him. Stating it does not exist allows for those individuals to operate without its restraints.

    We have seen the effects of war in this state and how it divides communities and destroys the life’s of the nations citizen. As a nation we should constantly strife towards Peace. It is too easy to speak the rhetoric of war thanks to the atrocities we are met with daily. We look for more from the servants of the state we ask them to use the rule book of neutrality and it is not an easy path but it must be reflected in every action that they take.

    The world is effectively at war since 911 and ireland needs its neutrality now more then ever.

    5
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:34 PM

    Phil, you should change your coffee mate…..

    1
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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:47 PM

    The Irish use the word neutrality as if we are using a different rule book than everyone else where in fact we are tasked in watching over Europe’s western approaches. Where was your neutrality in WW2 when Germany was bombing Belfast, and Donegal was a corridor for planes flying out over the Atlantic from Enniskillen. Where was the neutrality when Shannon airport was used by American planes during the Gulf wars. The fact that we depended recently on the RAF to shadow Russian planes flying close to the west coast of Ireland should indicate where our loyalties are if ever we feel threatened.

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    Mute brian boru
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    Jul 10th 2016, 4:51 PM

    Europe has satellites to watch Chris. Have you been watching game of thrones ? Watchers on the wall and all that….

    The rhetoric of war is so much more exciting and has much catchier lines then the slow drawn out discussions that leads to peace.

    And sure who doesn’t love a good military parade ? Always good for the troops and to ensure all know their place.

    Neutrality as said is an ideal something to strive for but never achieved as demonstrated by your two examples.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 10th 2016, 8:00 PM

    Oleksandr, When did Russia attack you, Ukraine under the Kiev government were attacking the people who Stalin planted in Eastern Ukraine and were busy ethnically cleansing them from the country, that is why so many million fled into Russia as did some of the Ukraine army.
    Ukraine is that angry over the famine Stalin caused there that the majority there want to attack the Russia of today for revenge due to it. They were that angry over soviet rule as well that they have now a neo nazi government and they still think Hitler was a great man?

    1
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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 10th 2016, 8:04 PM

    Wasn’t Kiev the first capital of Russia before Moscow?

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    Mute Oleksandr Savitskyy
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    Jul 10th 2016, 9:35 PM

    Alois Irlmaier Russia attacked February 23, 2014. There is not etnical cleansing in a small part of Eastern Ukraine as per UN and any other world humanitarian organisation. The population of that area consist of 69% Ukrainians. You are mixing holy with righteous. Kiev was a capital of Kiev Rus and not Russia. The word Russia was brought by Peter the Great who studied in Holland (that’s why Russian flag looks like Dutch) and UK. Until that time current Russia was known as Moscovia. Current Ukrainian Government and Parliament has less far-right and far-left members then most of countries in EU and our President is a Jew. That’s talking about Nazis. The famine has nothing to do with current situation except that you are right that Stalin moved some Russians into empty villages which were populated by Ukrainians who died from starvation but it did not have the scale of the situation like in Northern Ireland or Crimea.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 11th 2016, 12:21 PM

    Al, Ireland was semi neutral in WW2 but on the quiet side…

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 11th 2016, 12:30 PM

    Oleksandr, SEE” Abuses in Eastern Ukraine” https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/ukraine
    WHEN DID Russia attacked February 23, 2014, if they did then the Western world would have condemned them, the Ukraine situation is a civil war.
    http://www.mintpressnews.com/MyMPN/the-mainstream-media-is-aiding-ethnic-cleansing-in-ukraine/
    “The Mainstream Media Is Aiding Ethnic Cleansing In Ukraine”

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 11th 2016, 12:37 PM
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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 11th 2016, 12:42 PM

    I am just saying that the whole civil war has been used by both sides as a blame game using lies and misdirection by both U.S. / E.U. on one side as well as Russia on the other.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/10/us-fracking-companies-climate-change-crisis-shock-doctrine
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-looting-of-ukraine-and-the-us-energy-war/5408626
    Just an idea to political bedfellas?

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Jul 16th 2016, 4:05 PM

    Alois that makes no sense. Being neutral isn’t much good if you don’t have an army.

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    Mute Virtual Architect
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    Jul 16th 2016, 4:15 PM

    @Oleksandr You’re right we are lucky with our geographical location. That’s nothing to feel bad about especially when NATO are the really dangerous players, having invaded multiple counties in the last 20 years. The EU has become an arrogant self-justifying institution that is siding up to NATO in and alarming manner. Thanks for your input but no thanks.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 17th 2016, 2:25 AM

    Viritual Architech, Ireland during WW2 allowed U.S. and U.K. troops to be in Ireland, to use its airspace, seas and held German prisoners of war, we also provided the weather service for the U.K. during the war, we also wrote EIRE on the coast for U.S. planes to see. Ireland was not neutral during WW2.

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    Mute Dave Smith
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:03 PM

    If Ireland if forced to join an EU army we will need a referendum to leave or remain. I personally dont want to be part of an empire

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    Mute RJ.Fallon
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:21 PM

    well said Dave , I,m with you there.time for OUT.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 10:12 AM

    For as long as NATO exists I doubt that there would ever be a need for an EU army leaving the UK outside the loop given that the UK and France are presently the only European countries with a nuclear capability. I don’t see the situation changing just because the UK is leaving the EU.

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    Mute Juan Venegas
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    Jul 10th 2016, 3:20 PM

    jean Claude Junker said a few weeks ago in a Euronews interview about Brexit when asked to give one reason to the British public why they should vote to stay and he replied “The future of this world is a world of empires”

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 4:23 PM

    Juan, we saw what imperial empires were capable of in WW1 and WW2 armies fighting each other for superiororty. Countries need to come together for trade and to counter the evils of terrorism, that is all.

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    Mute Zambuca
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    Jul 20th 2016, 4:00 PM

    Wait until they harmonzie tax, and also all those rushing to the UK (speaking English) move across the Ireland. Several things are going to happen.

    1. More migrants deluging Ireland as the gates slowly come down in the UK
    2. Ireland forced to harmonize tax, and also be heavily regulated
    3. Ireland expected to pay more and more into the EU budget. It has had a net benefit since it joined, now its paying in 100′s millions of Euros’. Expect this to increase
    4. You will be forced to fund the EU army and participate
    5. The Euro is going to get slammed at some point, even the worlds top economists (nobel prize winners) know it. Expect it to be restructured or split.
    6. Whilst Ireland is locked into the Eurozone, it will watch the UK go global and make big trade deals, 10 x bigger than the EU. Ireland will be locked out of the conversations.

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    Mute Ben Smith
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:53 PM

    The problem with the EU seems to be that it’s a sort of halfway house between a federal Europe and sovereign nation states and there’s a constant tug of war between the two ideals. It’s no surprise that Germany and France are pro Europe considering that they were at the epicentre of two world wars, but a lot of other countries have very different ideals and objectives regarding the EU.

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    Mute Drew TheChinaman :)
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    Jul 10th 2016, 8:50 AM

    The reason the US federal system works so well is that there’s a clear mandate between states and federal, whenever there’s a conflict the US government is able to put up its hands and says it’s a matter for individual states to decide.

    It’s slow and bureaucratic at times but there are issues like immigration, defense, healthcare, social support that people don’t like having out of their national control. Often not for any particularly good reason… People throw around sovereignty as an excuse.

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    Mute Brinster
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    Jul 10th 2016, 11:25 AM

    Did anyone commenting actually read the article? EU Army is a fantasy. The only quote is from warmonger Blair almost 20 years ago. There is zero prospect of EU Army thankfully.

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    Mute mr magoo
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    Jul 10th 2016, 11:47 AM

    the forced migration of millions of people in to foreign countries is being brought about deliberately to destabilise Europe. They are causing chaos so that the people will demand order and embrace the superstate controllers and their super army. Order out of chaos. New world order playing out right in front of our eyes and millions of people embracing it. Tragic to see how many young people in Britain were crying over the Brexit when they should have been celebrating one small victory over the oncoming Orwellian 1984 nightmare.

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jul 10th 2016, 2:54 PM

    I have an idea why dont europe and Russia work together and stop crack pot America from ruining the world.after all Russia and Europe are neighbours.time to call off those silly sanctions against Russia and get back to trading again.just a thought

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    Mute Zambuca
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    Jul 20th 2016, 3:55 PM

    why is Holland going around Europe selling and pushing the idea. The proposal is already complete. So why would he waste his time doing this?

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:15 PM

    It’s only heading one way. The EEC was a charade.

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:19 PM

    I believe that one of the biggest drivers towards a Brexit was the notion that Britannia’s army would be under European control.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:31 PM

    One of many as political union and the Euro were also on the cards?

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:47 PM

    Jamie…i think you are right…Britannia likes her forces commanded by Brits..and rightly so.

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:54 PM

    Also talk of fishing and immigration, but nationalism is a huge force now, in different places, for varying reasons.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:13 PM

    Peter, but Trident can only be used first with permission from the U.S. President, or in a nuclear war.

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Jul 10th 2016, 11:42 AM

    I don’t think that’s true Alois – the US president must be informed, but doesn’t need to grant permission.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 11th 2016, 12:47 PM

    Avina, I heard that from an interview when the past head of the British military was asked about Trident on RT’s Goingunderground.

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:49 PM

    Well the commentators that laughed at those of us concerned that the EU would creat an army( as they tried before but it was blocked by the UK) are not laughing anymore, are they.

    Welcome to the new Superstate, when the economy fails the military industrial complex will start and wars will be how the economy is boosted.

    And the plans to make Paris and Berlin capitals of the EU? Yeah, welcome to the New Union lads, run by upper class federalist ideologues who care not for people, but for their sick and twisted delusional fantasy. All hail Europa.

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    Mute Fergus O'Neill
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:20 PM

    Well we did vote for it (eventually) with the Lisbon treaty…

    “The common security and defence policy shall include the progressive framing of the common defence policy. This will lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides.” (TEU, Article 42)

    “Yes for jobs”, don’t you know…

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    Mute Welshhibby
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:21 PM

    A world army to control the people….1984

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:14 PM

    The E.U. will never see an army, Germany will cause its collapse well before that ever comes into reality.

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    Mute Aoife Dooley
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:00 AM

    Alois I hope you’re right. The EU is becoming really scary. I am glad the UK are leaving and the more i learn about the EU I think we should go with them. Thanks for the new roads lads but we’re off now. They also want an EU wide PPS# so they can take money from our paychecks to pay for this army. Like in the US, federal tax and state tax, same idea planned for EU.

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    Mute bingo
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:20 AM
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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 11th 2016, 1:09 PM

    Aoifa, we get no money from the E.U. We get 90% back from the money we put into it each year to be a member of it, the 10% we do not get back goes on E.U. Administration and that money is then called E.U. Money and that was seen also in the Brexit debates. So all the grants etc is our money anyway and that will increase for us to pay for the newer E.U. countries joining and that might explain why we have all these new taxes as well but who knows?
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union
    At least it has a table of costs on the site including how much we spent to be a part of the E.U. at 1,639.45 MILLION PER YEAR on the table.
    http://europa.eu/publications/statistics/index_en.htm

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    Mute Tony Skillington
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:08 PM

    Ohh von..just you watch that being given up by our witless , craven politicians.

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:16 PM

    Im dead agin it…the yanks would control it via the Krauts…

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:35 PM

    They are doing it with sanctions against Russia now, so who controls the EU really?

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    Mute Stephen Coveney
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:04 PM

    @peter
    Would have thought you would have liked the idea. A common force to protect the borders against the invasion of refugees?

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:27 PM

    Great poke there Stephen…my reply got caught in the offensive language filter!!

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    Mute GO GREEN
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:27 PM

    Instead of creating an army to take on Russia they should create a new Europe of free sovereign states including Russia a European country to work together for mutual benefit. On a slightly different issue now with UK going and UK waters no longer available to giant factory Spanish trawlers no doubt they will drain Irish waters of last remaining fish stocks.

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:53 PM

    Is it only now that the Journal has copped on to this story? The FInancial Times had this in May http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e90a080e-107b-11e6-91da-096d89bd2173.html#axzz4DwwXFB4z and the Telegraph last September! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11861247/Merkel-expects-Cameron-to-back-EU-army-in-exchange-for-renegotiation.html

    Merkel wants a German lead EU army, the sooner the better. Why do you think that there is all of this talk about Russian aggression? There is no point in Irish people whining about it because they voted for it in the Nice Treaty and cemented it in the Lisbon treaty. Remember all of the mainstream political party EU fanboys slapping down the likes of Sinn Fein when they mentioned the prospect of an EU army? Well it looks like the Left were right on the money when they predicted this.

    Simon Covney has already laid the ground work for it as reported by the Irish times irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/defence-white-paper-redefining-national-defence-1.2331056

    ” Hence Ireland’s commitment to membership and full participation in UN, EU and OSCE security structures and operations. Not merely a reflection of goodwill, but an obligation of membership .”

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    Mute Em Ni Mhurchu
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    Jul 10th 2016, 9:55 AM

    The lack of coverage in the Irish media about this is staggering. I was genuinely surprised to see The Journal publishing this article. Every Irish person I have spoken to about the EU army has looked at me as if I’ve two heads and think I’ve made it up! This is a huge concern and should be shouted from the rooftops. It redefines the whole EU project and we need to seriously consider the implications for our country.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 10:34 AM

    Brian, you are not the first to be taken in by the British media, the Telegraph is the voice of ultra right wing Tory propaganda.

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    Mute John Fergus
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:04 AM

    eurocrats are trying to create a superstate by the backdoor.
    those in upper echelons of power in the eu have utter contempt for the idea of national sovereignty and self determination. Just look at how peripheral countries that were struggling with the euro were treated by the ecb. The former commission president was just hired by goldman sachs international http://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/brexit-goldman-sachs-hires-former-eu-chief-barroso-34868168.html

    you think these people are dangerous now imagine them with command of an army.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 10th 2016, 8:17 PM

    http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=40678
    An European superstate or an U.S. E.U. Superstate?

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    Mute margaret donohoe
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:36 PM

    That’s it lads a European army will mean the end of the world

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    Mute Adrian
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:30 PM

    Who the hell will they be fighting against? Does juncker and tusk wanna start playing war games against America or what?

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:34 PM

    Against Russia I think? As when the markets are in real trouble then they want big wars like world wars to reboot everything again?

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:46 PM

    Russia and her allies. We’ll have our mates too of course.

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:53 PM

    All conflict ends in a Russian Winter as they say!
    Jean Claude and his sort are not rational, they are openly delusional, the type of delusional person who would think they could go to war with Russia and Win.

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:15 PM

    Warfare has changed. Never again will a land army attempt to walk into Russia. The Great Wall of China is a tourist attraction these days. Technology is the new arms race. Mad killer robots what.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 10:43 AM

    The more that people think that the western world is against Russia then the closer this becomes a reality. The fact is that we all have to co-exist on this planet and as long as countries trade with each other there is no reason to talk about war as a way of solving problems.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jul 17th 2016, 2:28 AM

    IT IS CALLED A NUCLEAR WINTER?

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    Mute conri
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:19 PM

    Anyway, the guns it’d be too loud for our lads, so they can’t take part until they design quieter guns, also, can we make sure that Marie Courtney is not involved in the training and selection process, thanks.

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    Mute СIΔЯΔИ FΔЯЯΞLLY
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    Jul 10th 2016, 11:29 AM

    This was the original plan of the EU in the first place. The complete federalisation of Europe, the United States of Europe.. Arthur Salters plan all along. If we sign up to this, it’s another nail in the coffin for sovereignty, our borders, language, heritage and what our ancestors fought against the British all this years ago.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:21 PM

    It wasn’t so much a plan, rather an aspiration of a couple of French gentlemen and the reason why they didn’t want Britain in the club at the start of the common market project. They knew that Britain would never accept federalisation of Europe in the context of post WW2 where Germany was still an occupied country under marshal laws.

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    Mute Ted Murray
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:15 PM

    My understanding is that every EU country has to be in agreement before the idea gets the go ahead.
    I think there should be an EU army, then we can invade England for a change, and nick all their stuff. I’m looking forward to driving my EU Panzer tank through the gates of Buckingham Palace.

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    Mute B9xiRspG
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:29 PM

    Can you seriously see France or any EU country giving up control of their army? A joint agreement for defence maybe but not one army.

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    Mute Malvolio32
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:53 PM

    The sooner the better as far as I can see. The world is not such a benign place outside our cosy EU, and we must take our part in defending it, and not be relying on others via some neutrality cop out.

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jul 9th 2016, 10:55 PM

    How about we scrap this delusional oligarchy?

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    Mute Pat Gorman
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    Jul 10th 2016, 4:05 AM

    The notion of a “European Army” was dreamed up by British newspapers.
    As everybody knows,Britain has the world’s worst newspapers.
    Lies and half-truths are their stock-in -trade.
    The phrase “Gutter Press” is too mild a description for them.

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    Mute Pat Gorman
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    Jul 10th 2016, 4:14 AM

    P.S.
    That “Veterans for Britain” poster with the helicopter tells me that the European Union should welcome the exit of Britain.
    Clear off Britain.
    Go on your jolly way Britain.
    Nobody will miss the constant British griping and never-ending complaining.
    Paddle your own canoe Britain.
    Good riddance.

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    Mute Old Gordon
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    Jul 10th 2016, 10:21 AM

    Funny to see you so downvoted.

    Of course the idea is laughable. Any mobilisation of an ‘EU Army’ would require the authorisation of the national parliaments for their own troops to be committed. This article and many of the scaremongering above, is just hysterical babble.

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    Mute stopit
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    Jul 10th 2016, 10:28 AM

    the issue is, lots of people don’t understand how the EU works so it’s easy for them to be fearful.

    The main thing for me is that the EU is not killing each other like it was a few decades ago and that it can provide a coherent and effective defensive strategy if required. lots of potential scenarios where it will be required.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 10th 2016, 12:28 PM

    Well said Pat, at least someone here realises that the British media is largely tory propaganda printed for the benefit of ‘little England ‘ and Northern Ireland Unionists.

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    Mute ocJBI3Df
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    Jul 10th 2016, 8:45 AM

    Clear as mud

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    Mute Lorem Ipsum
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    Jul 9th 2016, 11:04 PM

    It was nice of Matt Carthy to decide what we all think without ever consulting us. And I see he’s made us neutral too – when did that happen? Did I sleep through a referendum? Did we sign The Hague Treaty while I was in the shower?

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    Mute Michael Lynch
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    Jul 10th 2016, 10:37 AM

    When’s the war starting, anyway?

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    Mute Jamie McCormack
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    Jul 11th 2016, 9:06 PM

    When did it ever end man.

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    Mute bigjake
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    Jul 10th 2016, 9:12 AM

    If the armies of Europe are joined together, at least they won’t be fighting each other EVER.

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    Mute Jeffrey McMahon
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    Jul 10th 2016, 2:18 PM

    Correct me if I am wrong, but from what we were told during the Lisbon 2 referendum, we would be excluded from any EU military, our neutrality was supposed to be kept sacrosanct. Our corporation tax was also to be left alone. Those were the special terms the EU offered Ireland in exchange for us ratifying the treaty. Sounds like the EU is breaking the terms of their commitment?

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    Mute Brendan Keegan
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    Jul 11th 2016, 7:53 AM

    That’s the last this we need. Will it be used to stop us complaining about how bad things will get when get the bill for all this crap.

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    Mute simon
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    Jul 10th 2016, 2:07 PM

    Begun ..the clone wars have..

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