Skip to content
Support Us

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

A deal on reducing the cost of Ireland's banking debt is under construction. (Get it?) Michael Probst/AP

Explainer: What's reportedly being discussed in talks on Ireland's bank debt?

RTÉ says Ireland’s banks could be given bonds by the EFSF, which could then be used to go to the ECB and get funds.

IT WAS REPORTED last night that ongoing talks between Ireland and its European paymasters, on the cost of Ireland’s banking debt, had moved to the possibility of the banks being given direct access to European bailout funds.

RTÉ’s report suggested that the European Financial Security Facility, the bailout fund which is currently giving cash to Ireland, could issue a bond to the banks which could then be used as collateral for the banks to access the everyday cash they need.

So – in short, if this was to happen, what difference might it make?

The current setup

When the credit crunch kicked in in 2008, and banks found it much more difficult to get cash from each other, the Irish government stepped in with a scheme that we all now know as the promissory notes.

These notes are essentially a form of government guarantee – a piece of paper which carries a government’s guarantee, saying ‘We will pay you a certain amount, at a certain interest rate, at defined points in the future’.

These notes were then used by the banks – primarily Anglo Irish Bank, but also Irish Nationwide – to get ‘Emergency Liquidity Assistance’ funds from the Central Bank of Ireland, which were used to cover their day-to-day activities and general running costs.

The Central Bank, as central banks do, simply created this money: fabricating the money out of thin air, on the eventual understanding that once the cash is repaid, it simply disappears again, dissolving into an electronic web of 1s and 0s.

The problem is, of course, that the State’s obligations are now being called in. (Naturally, the bank guarantee of 2008 also led to this.)

The total volume of the promissory notes given to Anglo and Irish Nationwide is around €30.6 billion, and these are now being repaid in annual instalments of €3.06 billion.

Their interest rate, incidentally, is around about the same interest rate the government would have paid to borrow cash itself at the time. It’s understood to be around 8.1 per cent.

While this is important in one sense – as it means the government’s overall bill for the promissory notes is higher, and therefore takes more cash out of the Budget – it is less important in another, as the interest is eventually being paid to IBRC, which is owned by the State itself.

It’s also worth noting that the banks are paying interest on the money they got from the Central Bank in exchange for these notes. This has never been confirmed, but it was reported last year that it’s somewhere between 2 and 3 per cent.

What’s being reported

RTÉ’s report suggests that the proposed arrangements would see the banks weaned off the promissory notes, and instead be given bonds – a form of IOU – from the European Financial Stability Facility.

That’s the EU’s current bailout fund, set up originally as a temporary vehicle, and the fund which is contributing just under a third of Ireland’s €67.5 billion bailout.

The EFSF raises its own money through a combination of contributions from Eurozone member states, and by issuing its own bonds. The idea is that the promissory notes can be slowly phased out, with the EFSF bonds introduced instead.

These bonds, issued by a reputable agency which has a AAA credit rating with two of the three ratings agencies (Standard & Poor’s downgraded it two months ago), would carry a far lower interest.

The overall idea is that instead of using an Irish government note to get cash from the Irish central bank, the banks would be given an EFSF bond which could be used as collateral to get cash from the European Central Bank.

Upsides and downsides

This would be welcome for the government, as the banks (which are now almost all state-owned) can get cash from the ECB more cheaply than they can get it from the Central Bank of Ireland.

Furthermore, the idea of replacing the note with the bond would basically mean there wouldn’t need to be discussion about ‘restructuring’ the promissory note and its repayment schedule – it could simply be replaced by another system on more favourable terms.

It would also be seen as a good thing by the ECB, because Frankfurt is obsessed with trying to prevent inflation, and the solution would allow the Central Bank of Ireland to be gradually repaid and to remove its newly-made cash from circulation.

The difficulty? Well, let’s go back to where the EFSF gets its money from – the other eurozone countries. All of them, bar Greece, pay the fund: we would need the approval of pretty much every eurozone member, therefore, if the proposal was to be pursued.

There’s also the possibility that the world’s investors could see Irish banks as a risky prospect – and charge a higher interest rate for the bond than we might expect.

Read: Government in discussions with EFSF on debt deal (RTÉ) >

More: Confirmed: Noonan announces deal on promissory notes

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
7 Comments
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Alan
    Favourite Alan
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 2:20 PM

    So much for people who say why vote, my vote doesn’t count. You can see here that every vote does count

    242
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute FlipBip
    Favourite FlipBip
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 7:21 PM

    @Alan: Well, every 35 anyway.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute qffaffaf affrafrfraf
    Favourite qffaffaf affrafrfraf
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 1:29 PM

    Hopefully he will stay in, last thing we need is another Liebour TD

    179
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute honey badger
    Favourite honey badger
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 2:37 PM

    This should mean PBP lose their speaking rights in the Dáil. Every cloud, eh readers?

    85
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ian
    Favourite Ian
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 3:38 PM

    @honey badger: Yawn. Bore off.

    170
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ger Whelan
    Favourite Ger Whelan
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 4:57 PM

    @honey badger: I believe it does. It’s an awful shame Paul Murphy managed to scrape in. But at least we won’t have to listen to him as much

    58
    See 4 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute honey badger
    Favourite honey badger
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 5:04 PM

    @Ian: Cheer up, Ian. I’m sure you can watch their previous episodes on oireactas tv!

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute honey badger
    Favourite honey badger
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 5:06 PM

    @Ger Whelan: It is an awful shame! It’s a small but welcome consolation that their lack of electoral traction has muzzled them.

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute H Woo
    Favourite H Woo
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 6:52 PM

    @Ger Whelan:
    Pop up Paul is actualy useful.
    He sucks up the brain dead vote that would have gone to Sinn Fein.

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Nicholas James O'Donnell
    Favourite Nicholas James O'Donnell
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 7:10 PM

    @honey badger: You don’t understand how speaking rights work. They will form a group of 7 with another small party or independents for the sake of speaking rights.

    55
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tom O' Donnell
    Favourite Tom O' Donnell
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 2:09 PM

    You’d have none of this nonsense if the media hadn’t campaigned against e-voting

    64
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Stanley Marsh
    Favourite Stanley Marsh
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 2:27 PM

    @Tom O’ Donnell: In 2024 there’s definetly a case to be made for online voting.

    If our banks allow us to bank online and the taxman allows us to do our taxes online surely it’s not beyond the wit of man to figure out an online voting system.

    There would be issues with the old and infirm being able to access it but then again not having to make their way to a polling station would possible balance that out.

    The current system / circus is closer to the famine than autonomous cars and nuclear fusion.

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute William Airey
    Favourite William Airey
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 2:32 PM

    @Tom O’ Donnell:
    E voting in Brazil since 1996, population of 216 million, shows how backward we are in this country

    15
    See 3 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Brennan
    Favourite John Brennan
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 2:34 PM

    @Tom O’ Donnell: The paper ballot is a permanent record, not vulnerable to hacking or whatever other online skullduggery can be dreamt up. A bulwark of democracy.

    30
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
    Favourite ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 3:48 PM

    @John Brennan: Or even just simple coding (programming) errors.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sean Hayes
    Favourite Sean Hayes
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 5:49 PM

    @William Airey: I don’t think we need to learn anything about democracy from Brazil, thanks

    21
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute D Farrell
    Favourite D Farrell
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 3:33 PM

    Mick Barry is having a hard time accepting that Cork people do not want to be represented by a full-time whinger.

    61
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tim Brennan
    Favourite Tim Brennan
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 5:26 PM

    @D Farrell: Typical he has been rejected shouting and balling is not political discourse

    16
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute SV3tN8M4
    Favourite SV3tN8M4
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 7:14 PM

    @D Farrell: Very poor representative, never anything to offer, just anti everything.

    21
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kevin Kerr
    Favourite Kevin Kerr
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 7:33 PM

    @SV3tN8M4: oh the irony

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dan Murphy
    Favourite Dan Murphy
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 1:44 PM

    A battle of the Commies.

    51
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Frank O'Hara
    Favourite Frank O'Hara
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 2:30 PM

    @Dan Murphy: Isn’t that the truth. It’s a bit like choosing whether to get punched in the face or kicked in the crotch.

    35
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute SerotoninWars
    Favourite SerotoninWars
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 4:54 PM

    @Dan Murphy: Or to more accurate: a battle of the dictionary-shy who don’t understand what a communist is.

    117
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute H Woo
    Favourite H Woo
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 6:49 PM

    @SerotoninWars:
    A communist is what you end up with after the socialists have finished wiping out the middleclasses.

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Alan Murphy
    Favourite Alan Murphy
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 4:56 PM

    Mick hasn’t been seen or heard of around our constituency up until 3/4 weeks ago. Absolute bluffer of a man. His lackies do all his work. Change it up and give Maher a chance. Mick’s a waking sound bite (the rare time he pops up) like election time

    39
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute SV3tN8M4
    Favourite SV3tN8M4
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 7:15 PM

    @Alan Murphy: Spot on.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul O'Mahoney
    Favourite Paul O'Mahoney
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 8:49 PM

    @Alan Murphy: He got an easy in 2016 after labour were wiped out, Kathleen Lynch , had to look her up btw did so much for that area, including getting back paid SW for women who were discriminated against……I went school in the North Mon in the 70s so it’s a place that I genuinely love…….well done Labour Toddy is looking down happily

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute offside again
    Favourite offside again
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 5:26 PM

    Getting in this late seems like an ‘I was the best of the worst’ badge of honneur.
    Way too many TDs in Ireland.

    20
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul O'Mahoney
    Favourite Paul O'Mahoney
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 8:45 PM

    @offside again: Feck off

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tim Brennan
    Favourite Tim Brennan
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 3:38 PM

    Delighted for the young guy from Mallow even though the other Labour party candidate John Maher gave a lot of transfers to Mick Barry. City voters versus Mallow voters. Best of Luck to Eoin a budding politician since birth.

    15
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul O'Mahoney
    Favourite Paul O'Mahoney
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 8:51 PM

    @Tim Brennan: And whatabout Sarsfields beating Ballygunner…..that’s the real story…..wrong constituency but what the feck

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul O'Mahoney
    Favourite Paul O'Mahoney
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 1:30 PM

    Well our democracy allows for this so let it happen, if Labour prevails great as its a long time since there was a Labour TD in that constituency…..I think it was Toddy O O’Sullivan, although Democratic Left had that lady…..and they merged so maybe it’s not that long.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tim Brennan
    Favourite Tim Brennan
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 7:15 PM

    Barry and Co have a real problem with the voters having elected people to govern those who choose the sideline are the real problem. You’re elected to govern in this Dail not the next one.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Setanta O'Toole
    Favourite Setanta O'Toole
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 3:05 PM

    Hello to all the lads blindly hoping Mick Barry loses his seat because some lad with a cameraphone told them he was a ‘communist’.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fintan Pox
    Favourite Fintan Pox
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 2:54 PM

    Mick has a smile that could light up Cork North Central

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tom McBride
    Favourite Tom McBride
    Report
    Dec 2nd 2024, 9:52 PM

    “Queer activists” no wonder the people rejected him

    6
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds