Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

Sam Boal/Rollingnews.ie

'Two-tier system' means couples still forced to travel for termination after severe foetal diagnoses

The legislation is due to be reviewed this year.

THERE IS CONCERN about how the State’s abortion legislation is working in practice three years on with pregnant women and couples reporting they still have to travel for terminations despite being told their baby is unlikely to live long after birth.

Termination for Medical Reasons (TFMR), a support group made up of parents who received a diagnosis of a fatal or severe foetal anomaly during pregnancy, has suggested some clinicians may be taking a more cautious approach in their diagnoses following the introduction of the legislation. 

One couple, who have shared their story on The Journal, received a diagnosis last year of Alobar Holoprosencephaly, a rare condition in which the brain fails to divide into two hemispheres.

Richard Stevenson said he and his wife Emma were told it was unlikely that their baby would survive labour, and in the event that the baby did survive the birth “it would probably be only minutes or hours before they passed away and that time would be spent struggling to breathe”.

“In the even more unlikely event that our child lived any amount of time, and best we could hope for would be about a year, they would never be able to move their arms or legs, never be able to speak, never be able to feed by themselves and at no point would they ever recognise us as their parents,” Stevenson said. 

When they were told a termination could not be facilitated in Ireland, he said they were shocked. 

“How was this happening? This is Ireland. We’re a liberal country. We just had a referendum for exactly this. I voted for it,” he said.

They travelled to England and Emma was induced at King’s Hospital in London. They said goodbye to their son Riley on 17 December. 

Claire Cullen-Delsol‏ of TFMR told The Journal that of the around 30 women or couples who came to the support group last year following a diagnosis, 85% had to travel for a termination. 

“I didn’t think we’d ever have to campaign again after the referendum,” she said. “I thought we were done. Not that there weren’t problems with the legislation, but we thought this target had been reached.”

Section 11 of the Termination of Pregnancy Act 2018 sets out the law on access to termination of pregnancy in cases where there is a condition present affecting the foetus that is likely to lead to the death of the foetus before or within 28 days of birth.

It requires the involvement of two medical practitioners, one of whom must be an obstetrician and the other a medical practitioner of a relevant speciality.

Both clinicians must examine the pregnant woman and both must certify that the termination of pregnancy can be carried out. 

Cullen-Delsol said she has heard of a number of other examples like Emma and Richard Stevenson since the legislation was enacted, involving conditions which “are horrific but won’t be covered”.

“They probably could come under the legislation. The likelihood is these babies won’t survive birth, but because of the 28 day expectation of life and the fact that two doctors have to certify it, it’s restrictive and some doctors won’t touch it.

There are three conditions in Ireland which will practically guarantee a termination for medical reasons; Anencephaly Patau syndrome and Edward’s syndrome. Outside of that the doctors still feel criminalised. Now people are travelling after being told about conditions that three years ago you’d be told were fatal.

“Because everyone had to travel abroad, doctors felt more comfortable confirming those conditions were fatal.”

She said during the debate ahead of the referendum, the group was told that these types of cases would come under the clause which states a termination can be carried out if there is a risk to the woman’s health. In practice, she said, this has not happened. 

“So we have this two-tier system now, which can make people feel worse. And the hospital you go to or the consultant you get can make a difference, it’s not being consistently applied across all maternity units.”

Cullen-Delsol‏ said the legislation needs to be amended to decriminalise doctors and the distinction between severe and fatal foetal anomalies needs to be removed completely.

“Let women make the decision about whether they want to continue,” she said. 

In January 2019, the Royal College of Physicians in Ireland’s (RCPI) Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists issued clinical guidance on the management of fatal foetal anomalies and/or life-limiting conditions diagnosed during pregnancy.

The document lists a number of potentially fatal foetal anomalies or life-limiting conditions, including Holoprosencephaly, noting that prognosis may not always be clear at the time of diagnosis. 

For some parents, termination of pregnancy in Ireland may still not be an option, and this may be for complex reasons including legislative restrictions in Ireland for non-fatal but major foetal anomalies, the need to travel to another country for treatment, financial or social considerations, as well as to access specific medical procedures,” the document states.

“During this time, and before termination of pregnancy, these parents should be assisted with preparing for the birth and death of their baby. Opportunities for memory-making can be discussed and planned, as well as the logistics around making arrangements for the baby when the parents are back in Ireland.”

One clinician who spoke to The Journal said there may be some “anxiety among doctors about being sued” and they may be taking a more conservative than they did before the legislation.

“It was easier to be more fatalistic when you didn’t have to get involved in actually doing the termination, or to expose yourself to the possibility of being sued. 

“I have heard anecdotally of situations where a serious problem is identified, but the woman is told it’s not fatal and to come back. Two weeks later, they’ll be told it got worse, and then maybe a week or two later they’ll be told it looks like it’s going to be fatal now.”

Professor Mary Higgins, consultant at the National Maternity Hospital in Holles Street, said she is aware that some people are still travelling for terminations, but she said terminations will be done at the hospital if a diagnosis meets the fatal foetal abnormality criteria.

While consultants can say with some degree of certainty that a diagnosis of conditions such as anencephaly would be fatal, there are cases, she said, that are more difficult to define.

“Where it becomes difficult is that blurred line between what is severe disability and what is fatal. In some cases, it would be fatal unless you do an operation and this operation is possible to do. This starts to get challenging,” she explained.

“There may be people [clinicians] who are veering towards conservatism and others who will have a more liberal approach. But you won’t have a situation where it’s 100% one way or the other, that’s why we have two people involved. Usually, you would get a few opinions so you can genuinely say to the patient that it is the most informed position.

“We are getting people who are getting diagnosis of a severe disability who say ‘I voted for this, why can’t I get it?’ and it’s awful to say that it’s not fatal enough, ‘not fatal enough’ is a horrible phrase and it’s awful to tell people that. This is not a black and white situation.”

The legislation is due to be reviewed now, three years after its passage, and the Minister for Health has said this review has now begun, though it is at an early stage. 

In a statement to The Journal, the HSE has said the operation of the legislation is a matter for attending clinicians and medical practitioners are “bound through professional regulatory mechanisms to operate in accordance with best medical practice”. It pointed to the RCPI’s clinical guidance on the termination of pregnancy and the pathway for management of life-limiting conditions diagnosed during pregnancy.

The HSE said it is open to the person concern to seek a second opinion on the diagnosis or to seek a review in cases where a medical practitioner has not given an opinion, or has given an opinion that would not lead to a certification for termination of pregnancy to be carried out.

“Section 13 of the Act provides that the pregnant woman, or a person acting on her behalf, may make an application to the HSE for a review of the relevant decision. Within three days of receiving such an application, the HSE must convene a committee of medical practitioners to review the relevant decision,” it said.

“The committee must complete its review not later than seven days from the date on which it was established.”

The HSE said services for termination of pregnancy under the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018 have continued to function during the Covid-19 pandemic.

“There is regular ongoing engagement between the Department of Health and the HSE to facilitate the operation of the service and to resolve any operational issues that may arise.”

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
49 Comments
This is YOUR comments community. Stay civil, stay constructive, stay on topic. Please familiarise yourself with our comments policy here before taking part.
Leave a Comment
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Brian Maher
    Favourite Brian Maher
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 7:42 AM

    It has always puzzled me how politicians cannot be fired for lying – how is it possible to roll back 100% on election promises? I think this behaviour negatively impact society – normalising lying across all parts of society and business

    758
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ruby
    Favourite Ruby
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 7:46 AM

    @Brian Maher: Fat Rabbit explained that very well on TV one night.

    194
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kevin Burke
    Favourite Kevin Burke
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 7:56 AM

    @Brian Maher: They can. If people don’t vote for them in the next election. If people keep voting the same people back in nothing changes

    272
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Derek Poutch
    Favourite Derek Poutch
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 8:02 AM

    @Brian Maher: Then we wonder why people won’t vote , the politicians can promise anything now knowing that they can actually do the opposite of what they promised with no consequences to them. Democracy is a joke to these politicians.

    113
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute S lloyd
    Favourite S lloyd
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 7:36 AM

    Headline should read why haven’t they got rid of usc yet !!

    486
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Suzanne Dorgan
    Favourite Suzanne Dorgan
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:09 AM

    @S lloyd: Remind me again what we allegedly get from paying the USC tax? It’s an effin joke.

    192
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute R Farrell
    Favourite R Farrell
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:14 AM

    @Suzanne Dorgan: Working folks get nothing. The welfare brigade get heavily subsidised housing, free in fact as they use their dole to pay for it, free medical care, electricity allowance, fuel allowance, phone allowance, Christmas bonus, the list is endless. That’s where your USC goes.

    242
    See 14 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Bobby Moore
    Favourite Bobby Moore
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:39 AM

    @R Farrell: You seem to forget that we are still paying off Unsecured Bondholders Loans, Bankers Debt, IMF loans, Government ineptitude (Broadband plan, The Childrens Hospital Fiasco, Irish Water, Nama, etc) the list goes on for the past 11 years to the tune of 64 Billion or more. But still, you blame those on Welfare. Here’s a hint….’blame the guys in suits’.

    112
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niall
    Favourite Niall
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:39 AM

    @S lloyd: the USC was a tax that every single person paid – but not the usual scroungers pay F all and get everything for nothing

    56
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute G Row
    Favourite G Row
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:37 AM

    @Niall: Just like the bankers so but you probably bow down to their greatness.

    35
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Thomas Roche
    Favourite Thomas Roche
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:58 AM

    @Bobby Moore: and dont forget if you went to the bother of buying a house, theres a tax on that too. People should read up about switzerland and how their home tax went from a couple hundread a year like ours to now its based on the potential rental rate of your property.

    21
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
    Favourite Nuala Mc Namara
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 12:28 PM

    @R Farrell: Unemployment rate is down to 4.4% is 108,200 persons.
    .The ‘welfare brigade’ are mainly those on pensions,on illness, disability &caring incomes,child related payments,working age employment supports,working age income supports,etc total beneficiaries of Social Welfare benefits in Ireland was 3,323,690 persons!(Table A4 : Annual Statistical Report 2018 Social Welfare.’)
    There are now 2.28m people in employment in Ireland.Last year on 1/8/18 Revenue published data on individualised gross income which showed 1.77m persons on incomes €30,000& under.So social and affordable housing stock needed! Working people live in social housing too + elderly+disabled,etc.
    Welfare Expenditure comes from 54.6% of Exchequer funding plus 45.4% from Social Insurance Fund(financed by PRSI contributions from employers (73%), employees (21.6%)&self employed (5.3%)
    The USC is a tax paid directly to Exchequer.

    23
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 2:13 PM

    @Nuala Mc Namara: Facts don’t matter to the likes of him Nuala. He has a job to do for Leo. The job is to keep banging the look over there division drum.

    20
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute R Farrell
    Favourite R Farrell
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 2:38 PM

    @Dave Doyle: I’m a female nurse Dave. You’re the stereotype expat, bitter, disenfranchised that you couldn’t make it work back here. Stay where you are, we’ve enough washed out looking Steven Seagal guys here banging your drum of poor me.

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute G Row
    Favourite G Row
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 3:38 PM

    @R Farrell: Private hospital I hope, would hate to think you would have to deal with people inferior to you.

    15
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute R Farrell
    Favourite R Farrell
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 3:55 PM

    @G Row: Public A&E. We spend roughly 80% of our time dealing with drug & alcohol related injuries, of this probably 90% have medical cards & are on welfare. We’re the one’s who are inferior to those ‘too good to work’ and expect everything to be given to them for free.

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute G Row
    Favourite G Row
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 4:02 PM

    @R Farrell: Move to private you will feel much better about yourself.

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 4:34 PM

    @R Farrell: Very successful at work in Ireland. From tenement to social housing to owning my own home there. Two sons, one with a degree from Trinity in History, a masters in economics from the UNSW. The other son a fully qualified aircraft engineer (avionics) for a major airline. I have a lifestyle here you can only dream about. Own my home here, no mortgage, no loans. I’ve nothing to be bitter about. No poor me’s. I hate what FG have done to the people of Ireland, the division FG survive on. The likes of you, in your ignorance, continually on here danging Leo’s division drum.

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Paul
    Favourite John Paul
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 5:00 PM

    @G Row: I was thinking the same. The hatred she spouts here constantly about the “welfare brigade” . To think she works in a profession that is supposed to help people no matter who they are is worrying. A nurse who looks down her nose at the less well off and judges them?

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
    Favourite Nuala Mc Namara
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 6:23 PM

    @R Farrell: I’ve never heard a nurse talking about her patients in such a disgraceful manner.Research data published May last year which examined ALL 29 Emergency Departments in Ireland found that alcohol was a factor in 5.9% of attendances during week (which contradicts your assertion!)although it did rise to 1/3of all attendances on Saturday night/Sunday morning.
    You usually negatively comment on welfare (despite unemployment rate 4.4%& total beneficiaries of welfare in Ireland is 3,324,690 people!!)and homeless “wanting houses next to mammy” despite Government own data showing that 82.4% on social housing waiting lists have no specific accommodation requirements, majority of rest need accommodation to suit specific needs eg disability!.
    You never though seem to comment on the failing Government policies re National emergencies in homelessness, housing and health!

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 7:11 PM

    @Nuala Mc Namara: Well said Nuala.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fenster
    Favourite Fenster
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 8:47 AM

    I know these things are different depending on how much you get paid but PRSI is about 5% of my wages and USC another 5, what are they going to do? Bump PRSI to 9.5% and then claim they are abolishing the USC? They have their hand snugly in our pockets with the USC, they won’t be taking it out any time soon

    195
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Joseph Mullen
    Favourite Joseph Mullen
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 8:02 PM

    @Fenster: regardless of how much you get paid you only pay 4% employee prsi. There is no 5% rate of prsi. Also with the system of usc in place with different rate bands and increased rates for higher earnings, in order to be paying an average of 5% usc on your wages you would be earning a minimum of € 104,000 gross per year. More than double the average industrial wage. Just saying.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Doyle
    Favourite Dave Doyle
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 8:06 AM

    How can anyone expect any different. FG love soundbites, they lie, it’s what they do best. They will say and promise anything that sounds like what people want to hear. Then have a laugh at the people’s expense while ignoring all they said and promised.
    That’s the FG way.

    198
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Cal Mooney
    Favourite Cal Mooney
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 12:19 PM

    @Dave Doyle: Pretty sure they learned everything they know from FF. Labour much more blatant about it. Sick.

    25
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute vfagan
    Favourite vfagan
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 8:04 AM

    Votes mean nothing. Whether you vote for who you think is right or not.
    Politicians, for the most part, lie to get elected, once elected, its gravity train all the way to pension time.
    Politicians don’t undo taxes, VRT used to be the hot topic. USC isn’t going anywhere.

    163
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave Hammond
    Favourite Dave Hammond
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:27 AM

    @vfagan: sounds about right – it is funny how it didn’t take too much time to introduce and roll out USC and arrange to efficiently collect hundreds of millions of euro in no time….have had years to make any adjustments….but get spun this horsesh*t that it takes time.

    44
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Kearney
    Favourite David Kearney
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:45 AM

    I like simple, the USC was brought in to repay the bank debt, so we should not have to merge it. Once that value has been collected via USC it should just be stopped. But now it’s just more tax, this is why it’s complex. Because they are taking it as income..

    106
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Sean O Rodaigh
    Favourite Sean O Rodaigh
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:12 AM

    @David Kearney: Just another 51 years or so of the USC as Ireland’s on the books debt is north of €200 billion. Inflation over the coming years and selling what’s left of the countries silverware might knock a decade off!

    49
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Oscar
    Favourite Oscar
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 8:07 AM

    Brian Lenihan really screwed us all over

    153
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Adrian
    Favourite Adrian
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:34 AM

    Sadly, our politicians are nothing more than a bunch of incompetent amateurs making themselves millionaires in the dail and doing nothing for the country. This is why they can’t get rid of taxes like the USC, and they need more taxes (in the guise of carbon taxes) for brexit.

    110
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Adrian
    Favourite Adrian
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:41 AM

    We’re paying a very heavy price for electing these grossly inconpetent politicians. More capable politicians wouldn’t cost the country as much. And then adding insult to injury, they’re paying themselves unjustifiable amounts of money, making themselves wealthy millionaires while they’re there.

    94
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Adrian
    Favourite Adrian
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:25 AM

    With 2 billion hospital and 3 billion broadband, these horrendously poor politicians are proving very costly for the state. Even just replacing harris could save the country billions in hospital overruns and botched tests and whatever else we don’t hear about.

    69
    See 2 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Kevin
    Favourite Kevin
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:45 AM

    @Adrian:

    Never fear. The obvious solution is to double a TD’s salary to “attract the right talent”. Simples.

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Adrian
    Favourite Adrian
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:56 AM

    @Kevin: its a massive pity and its proving disasterous for the country that the gombeen FFG voters who cannot see outside their own parish, they cannot comprehend the damage these guys are doing on a national level costing the country billions.

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Thomas Newell
    Favourite Thomas Newell
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:42 AM

    Pat rabbitte said it perfectly…….politicians lie to the electorate to gst get elected, and in the case of the FFG cartel, they can lie, lie and lie again, and the gullible masses will still vote them in, while the likes of Pascal the plank and the rest roll out the its complicated reasons for not merging prsi and the usc. And like good little seals ths FFG supporters will just stand there and clap…….you lot get what you voted for

    85
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Boris Becker
    Favourite Boris Becker
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:02 AM

    Cronies….get them all out

    57
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Honeybee
    Favourite Honeybee
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:22 AM

    I really suspect the real reason they did not proceed to amalgamate the two deductions from our income as a single deduction is that we would rightly be horrified by the rather large significant amount being taken, it would scream injustice from your payslip and shock the poor sod who thought he was earning a fair wage with the prospect of managing his own money only to find the government were leaving him the crumbs after their deductions, to add insult to injury,the pittance is then subjected to all their indirect taxes which are set to increase, and Paschal will smile like a cheshire cat as he delivers how we are being taken to the cleaners.

    48
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Shakka1244
    Favourite Shakka1244
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:14 AM

    @Honeybee: Is it not the role of the opposition to highlight inadequacies of Government?

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute AA Brady
    Favourite AA Brady
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:59 AM

    @Shakka1244: what opposition?

    13
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Honeybee
    Favourite Honeybee
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 12:06 PM

    @Shakka1244: What opposition ? are they not all together as one. It is so discouraging that if a general election took place tomorrow, the alignment of the parties would still be the same. It is awful to have a hundred years of tweedledee and tweedledum in government but to think we can have no hope of change is so much worse,a hundred years of lies and what makes it even worse is knowing as we were lied to that they didn’t think we were worth the truth .

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tom Bombdadil
    Favourite Tom Bombdadil
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:29 AM

    USC…. literally robbing us. Big thanks to FF for crashing the country and a big shout out to FG for destroying what was left.

    44
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Niall Sheridan
    Favourite Niall Sheridan
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:01 AM

    For “it’s complex” read “we couldn’t be assed”! Took three weeks to prepare CAB legislation , so why not do it?

    40
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Gerard O'Sullivan
    Favourite Gerard O'Sullivan
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:35 AM

    And on the other hand, they are not awarding the NBP (Broadband Plan) to Eir as they are SO concerned that people will have to pay an few pound (€70) to connect their house should they go with Eir’s last minute proposal. Fleesing our pockets in one way, and wasting 2 billion to make sure people save €70. Somone call an election!

    32
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Shakka1244
    Favourite Shakka1244
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:09 AM

    @Gerard O’Sullivan: The Dinny deal has been done. FFG won’t dare upset their boss.

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute conriel
    Favourite conriel
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:16 AM

    People keep allow this this type of additional taxation to happen, just look at your insurance , still paying for PMPA, Quinn, uninsured drivers, failed company’s, then look at your power bill public obligation charge, and the list goes on, ever time there is a financial issue they simply dump onto the tax payer, then they will increase there own wages to cover the cost. The people need to take a stand on type of behavior by Governments

    26
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Gary Heslin
    Favourite Gary Heslin
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:20 AM

    Give me back my USC ye shower of lying gowls

    41
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul
    Favourite Paul
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:05 AM

    Doherty is great…but we cannot run the country on air….or ride to work on his beautiful unicorns….the country costs money to run and somebody had to pay tax….please God some day SF can get into government and run the country properly….like they used to in NI before the money started to dry up and real adult supervision was require….

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Thomas Maher
    Favourite Thomas Maher
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:17 AM

    @Paul: his point is fg said they’d abolish usc and they havent, he’s not saying it should be abolished

    72
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Nuala Mc Namara
    Favourite Nuala Mc Namara
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:36 AM

    @Paul: Pearse Doherty asked Minister questions and found out no concrete plan to amalgamate USC&PRSI.USC brings in €3.9B a year.
    Pearse said “Imagine if we had a €3.9B hole in Budget facing Brexit&all the other uncertainties we are familiar with from the Fiscal Council &other Reports.”.So you’re completely wrong!
    Next time read the article properly!

    40
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute G Row
    Favourite G Row
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:59 AM

    @Paul: As he said, another clapping seal.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Shakka1244
    Favourite Shakka1244
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 9:56 AM

    We have been properly screwed by FFG. We should keep voting them in and test if a leopard can really change it’s spots. While we are testing this theorem, waste, cronyism and lies will be delivered until we, the stupid electorate, realise that no, a leopard does not change it’s spots.

    29
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute The Irish Bull
    Favourite The Irish Bull
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 12:34 PM

    You’re just a number for money-taking exercises. You can not get ahead in this country. It’s impossible.

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Paul
    Favourite John Paul
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 5:08 PM

    I have absolutely no problem paying USC or PRSI and would gladly pay more if it was used to find our health system , education system , housing cisis etc. Instead our taxes pay off the debts of gambling banks and the crazy salaries and pensions of incompetent politicians

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Seosamh Snr Nolan
    Favourite Seosamh Snr Nolan
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 12:09 PM

    Laughable shower of Gangster in that Leinster house ! Merge the two .WTF USC was brought in as a austerity measure with promises that it would be removed when we are rolling again . Sure why would they not keep doing what there doing when people still actually vote these liars in . No different than the guy robbing the bank just far more sneakier .

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rob67
    Favourite Rob67
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:45 AM

    “It is too complex” basically he just said you are too stupid to understand and can’t be bothered to explain it to you… or he actually doesn’t know how to do it.

    28
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute fergalmoore
    Favourite fergalmoore
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 10:05 AM

    This is a finna fail tax. I’ll never vote for FF ever. It also amazes me how now that we are paying USC that it now pays for ‘things’ that were already in place and stopping it means we cant have those ‘things’ . Horse shit

    34
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Shakka1244
    Favourite Shakka1244
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:08 AM

    @fergalmoore: It’s to assist with the €6 Billion interest repayments for the bailout loan that nobody ever talks about. The loan our grandchildren will still be paying.

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Moorooka Mick
    Favourite Moorooka Mick
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 11:10 PM

    Its amazing that the Irish taxpayer hasn’t revolted about having to pay for the excesses
    of Celtic Tiger builders & their aiding ab=nd abetting Banksters & politicians.
    Solution:
    -raise corporate tax to 17.5%
    -abolish income splitting by the middle class professionals
    -abolish the USC
    -reduce Vat to 20%
    -abolish TV licences
    -reduce car tax to E20/year for cars of lss that 120G/Klm CO2.
    -remove property tax from the family house valued less that E500K

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Kelly
    Favourite John Kelly
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 1:40 PM

    FG in lying shocker !!!
    USC should have been scrapped long ago.Its suchba pity we as a nation let all these things happen without putting up any sorta fight

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Margaret Kane
    Favourite Margaret Kane
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 4:50 PM

    Varadkar just lies lies and lies he’s worst than Trump

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Margaret Kane
    Favourite Margaret Kane
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 4:40 PM

    USC another tax money to put into there own pockets the government is nothing but conmen and robbing gits

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute William Kelly
    Favourite William Kelly
    Report
    Jul 1st 2019, 6:02 AM

    It is not complex for us to vote for an alternative government, one which will roll back the lifetime cuts to our privately funded pensions, the USC, & reform the property tax to base it on living space rather than on local valuation. The most inequitable government in the states history will be binned to restore fairness to those who got up early for decades past, & paid taxes to build the social housing in the fifties- nineties.
    It wasn’t complex for them to put pay & pension restoration in train for public servants, including themselves, nor to raid our pension funds in the first place.
    It will rain P45s in the next general election, fool us twice rule will apply.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Blessing
    Favourite John Blessing
    Report
    Jul 1st 2019, 2:41 PM

    Well as long as the id&%t Irish keep them in power, the longer they will be ridden. It’s basic math’s.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Leo Lalor
    Favourite Leo Lalor
    Report
    Jun 30th 2019, 7:50 AM

    Dismiss this shower and let somebody in who can do the job honestly without lies and spin doctors covering up their incompetence. It’s sick

    1
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.

Leave a commentcancel

 
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds