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Updated 6.10pm
MICHEÁL MARTIN HAS told Enda Kenny that Fianna Fáil is not prepared to go into a partnership government with Fine Gael and independents.
The two party leaders met for the second time in 24 hours this afternoon, but the meeting was short-lived, lasting between 10 and 15 minutes before the talks broke-up.
Martin rejected Kenny’s proposal for a full partnership government, involving the two parties and independent TDs. Kenny had made the offer during last night’s meeting between the pair in Leinster House.
Fine Gael said the offer remains on the table, but there are no further talks between the two parties planned ahead of next Thursday when the Dáil will, for the third time, try to elect a Taoiseach.
Fianna Fáil said it had rejected the offer in the national interest, as the country would not be best served by a coalition of the two parties. Fine Gael said the national interest was not served by Fianna Fáil’s rejection of the offer.
The two parties will now continue their respective efforts to form minority governments, but the breakdown of talks would appear to increase the likelihood of a second election.
Martin questioned the integrity of Fine Gael’s offer saying his relationship with the Fine Gael leader left “a lot to be desired”. Kenny said that Fianna Fáil’s rejection of his proposal is “driven by narrow party interests”.
The remarks indicate worsening relations between the two leaders.
Hugh O'Connell / TwitterFG source: Taoiseach has told Micheál Martin that his rejection is based on narrow party political grounds and not in national interest.
— Hugh O'Connell (@oconnellhugh) April 7, 2016
What Fianna Fáil said
Martin told the media a short time ago that Fianna Fáil is “prepared to facilitate the formation of a minority government” and said his party ”believe in the concept of minority government”.
Fianna Fáil will continue its own efforts to form a minority government, he added.
I am prepared to lead a minority government myself if the Taoiseach doesn’t want to lead a minority government and I put that to the Taoiseach earlier.
The Fianna Fáil leader said that his party is open to further talks with Kenny, but said it will not go into government with Fine Gael, having made that commitment during the general election.
We made this promise consistently in advance of the election. We made it clear to the Irish people, and to those who were voting for us, that we would not go into government with Fine Gael and we’re remaining consistent and true to that commitment we made.
Martin said governments with large majorities are “not good for democracy”, citing the record of the outgoing Fine Gael/Labour coalition.
Asked about his relationship with Kenny, Martin said that the events of the last 24 hours had left “a lot to be desired” and questioned the “integrity of the entire process”.
Martin claimed that Kenny told him yesterday evening that minority government was being “taken off the table”. He questioned this given Fine Gael had engaged in talks with independents for the last three weeks.
There was an element of choreography about it, but that’s par of the course in terms of how the Taoiseach does his business.
What Fine Gael said
A spokesperson for the Taoiseach said Fianna Fáil’s rejection of the partnership government proposal with “serious haste” is “extremely disappointing, very unfortunate, and a mistake”.
TheJournal Politics / TwitterEnda Kenny has just sent this message to every Fine Gael member and supporter pic.twitter.com/At19SQIH7P
— TheJournal Politics (@TJ_Politics) April 7, 2016
That view was echoed by three senior Fine Gael ministers, Leo Varadkar, Simon Coveney and Frances Fitzgerald, who spoke to the media at Leinster House this afternoon. Coveney said:
We in Fine Gael think that the decision by Fianna Fáil today has been a historic missed opportunity.
He said that “a very generous and very real offer” had been tabled by the Taoiseach, saying it would have changed Irish politics and responded to the “very complex political landscape” and help address the needs of the Irish people.
The Agriculture Minister said that Fianna Fáil’s rejection of the offer is not in the national interest, but it “remains on the table”.
He said it was disappointing that Fianna Fáil hadn’t even considered the offer for a day.
Fine Gael also rejected Martin’s claims that minority government had been taken off the table, with the ministers insisting that the party is looking for a stable government.
This evening, bookmaker Paddy Power has slashed the odds on a second general election taking place this year from 4/1 to 6/4.
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Election time
Will be interesting to see how people react to going to the polls a second time.
I think FF have rejected this offer too hastily – just looks like they weren’t bothered even trying to find a solution.
For 40 days we’ve had people begging them to engage and now FF have pulled out before the process has really started.
I don’t think this will play well with the electorate but it will only be one of many factors at play.
I don’t know Brinster, at least they’ve been in talks. Same with the greens, independent alliance and a few others. It’s the ones that made absolutely no effort at all that should be punished most.
Can someone ask meehawl what the difference is between going into government with FG and supporting them from opposition? Essentially it’s the same thing except with the minority option we get more FG ministers not less
@ Conor
That’s what I don’t get.
FF’s position is essentially “We will not work with you, however we would be willing to support you, from the opposition benches”.
It makes no sense – rather than have a role in Gov implement some of their own policies, they would rather support all of FGs policies, while opposing them?
They are both terrified of sinn fein being the biggest party in opposition sling mud accross the floor at them
Seems no one wants to be enda and fg friends except Michael Lowry… Even labour abandoned him yesterday… What now minority government.. Fg control government side and ff control opposition side while supporting fg.. What’s Michael mean by events in the last 24 hours have left a lot to be desired… A spokesman for the taoiseach said ff rejection is in serious haste.. Didn’t we have a partnership offer last night in serious haste…..
@brinster yup it’s a completly contradictory position.it makes no sense apart from the point of trying to protect the party from the responsibility of government and trying to protect themselves from getting a kicking from sinn fein
I think that they did the right thing. We all say the interviews on the telly before the election were Martin was asked repeatedly would he go into government with kenny and he said no. This is part of the reason people voted for him. If he decided to ignore that it’d look really bad.
Meehawl’s position : We campaigned to remove FG from government so we will support a FG minority Government……..can someone make sense of that?????
@aoife but sure supporting them from opposition is the exact same thing….except we get more FG ministers not less
@ Aoife
Fair enough – but t will only make sense of they refuse to support a minority FG Government.
It is simply not credible for them to “prop up” an FG Gov from the opposition benches when they rejected the chance to join them in an equal partnership.
And if they refuse to support an FG minority Gov – election time. Which they will get the blame for.
I missed the posters….said nobody ever.
FF seam only interested in the people who voted for them. We have promotional representation in this country, FF don’t care about the vast majority of people who didn’t vote for them. Their arrogance is staggering!
Brinster. I agree with you. I think they’ve created a rod for their own back with this one. If they go against their decision to not go into partnership with kenny they’ll look stupid. If they decide to prop up fine gael on the case by case thing people will ridicule them for it. I think that they’re really the same party with the same policy’s and for years have just swopped around every few years and if any of them needed numbers then a small party propped them up.now with Adams and Mary lou on the scene it’s upset the balance and they don’t know what to do now.
poor enda,, shatter mcnulty and callinan reckon he is straight as an arrow,, just bumped into a fella in the local with 2 pints in his hand reckons enda is the bees knees
I agree but why did he string Enda Kenny along up until today. Why didn’t he have the courage of his convictions & simply put his cards on the table when negotiations started between the parties. Some wheeling & dealing in the background going on between all of them!!
Martin never wanted in and would only support a FG government long enough to get them so deep in the Irish Water quicksand that FF would emerge from the next election, which they could trigger at will, as the biggest party.
I think he’s a scaredy cat and that’s why he didn’t put his cards on the table. He’s hoping people’s moods will warm to the idea, they haven’t and the media sicken me with all their pushing together of kenny and Martin. It was pretty clear what Martin said prior to the election, we won’t go into partnership with kenny. In my opinion either we go back to the old ways of the two fiannas on either side of the house but it won’t work unless Adams disappears, I’m not sure what will happen as the status que has existed for so long. Strange times indeed.
I have no problem with another election. Democracy is not a burden.
The body language of Fianna Fail over recent days has predicted the outcome which saw Enda Kenny seeking their support to form a government. Anyone who watched Barry Cowan last night on the news would have seen smug arrogance as their answer to a call for talks. Fine Gael in my view are wasting their time trying to bring about a minority government, when it is obvious that both Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein have the knives out ready to attack every move. Lets have another election and perhaps this time we will ask the right questions of these wanabee polititians, who think that getting elected is just a game to get their snouts into the trough wirhout the responsibility that goes with the job.
I agree with Paul. There can now be little hope or confidence in the formation of a stable Government rising from the election of the 32nd Dáil. So the best course for the country now is to refer back to the people.
The (acting) Taoiseach should inform the President that he can no longer effectively govern the country, nor is there any prospect that he will be able to do so in the near term. He should then advise Mr Higgins to dissolve the Dáil, triggering an election within 30 Days. The actual decision here would rest with the President (no Dáil assent for the request) but if the Taoiseach is telling you he can’t run the government I don’t see it as a very hard one.
Brinster..I said it last night..MM holds the cards now..Kenny left it too late and Iw is playing a huge role in this.
Littleone . How Lowery would to be part of a family but i think all Parties know what he is like, a dishonest Man trying to make friends with anyone he can. Keep trying someone might let you in.
another day off for the teachers
Aoife the problem is ff fg will have to play real politics now because they know sf are serious contenders ff fg are spoilt brats which had there own way for decades.Its only a pitty the people of Ireland didn’t give sf a chance.I am so tired of gombeen ff fg politics their a joke just like their supporters oops maybe i shouldn’t of said Ireland needs change badly._.
Bobby if you’re happy to have them in power..lead by someone who covered up for his paedophile brother..good luck to you.
Paul. That’s great so when can we expect the 40 million euros it costs to arrive from you. It’s already cost us 40 million so far. That’d make 80 odd million. You think that’s money well spent. Would you think 40 million spent on restoring medical cards to disabled children is also money well spent
Bobby. I agree with you. I don’t think they know how to be honest politions though.its just petty bickering and leaving us the people to suffer while they waffle on. We’re getting a bad name internationally as a tax haven, the double irish is not a good thing to be known by. The EU has screwed us and the government here know it but haven’t the balls to say it.
@johncross defo!! I can almost smell it!
Aoife..your post is just that waffle..who doesn’t know how to be honest politicans ff/fg/sf/the lot of them. .the Eu screwed us..fg allowed that..
Sparky the psni said adams did everything he was supposed to do,not a nice thing to say sparky how many years did ff fg cover for the church?????tell me what ff fg did to help those children.Thousands i will tell you sweet f all only covered it up.Maybe you lost your memory brushed it under the carpet !!
Bobby now now..I won’t defend any of the above..Catholic Church, government,garda,all pushing it under the carpet..but I’m talking about an individual here . protecting his brother.if you want to debate that go ahead.
@Aoife the whole world knows that we will bend over for anything thanks to ff fg labour Gombeen partys.Now we have a country totally dependent on multinational companies we are rightly screwed.Vote right to change vote sf
Insanity : doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
A different result
Albert Einstein
Bobby how did I know you wouldn’t debate..pure shinner. .
Bobby have a read of the transcript from Liam Adams trial. It’s long and hard going but you’ll know from that, that Jerry Adams most certainly did not do everything he could. He put his brother in a senior position in a SF cumann after he knew what he was. SF are worse than all the others put together and that’s saying something.
Bobby..just had a thought. .how ironic that you use psni as a matter of defence. .lol
Sparky its hard to debate with someone whos obsessed about adams.Most haters are like that you know.I just find it strange that you want to debate something like that its weird and its for the cops to do ok bud.
I didn’t ask you to debate with yourself. …
Low digs from opposition to night deflect deflect deflect.Jane when are yourself and sparky going to get together and form this match made in heaven government lol ff fg or is it fg ff whos on top thats what sparky wants to know.._..
So did your Gerry know about the abuse..yes or no.
Interesting hidden s###@l reference. .no need to say anymore..
From what I’ve heard Mary Loo is the biggest supporter of a FG FF government. Strange when you think about how concerned she is about the homeless and unemployed.
Sparky get off your mammys computer and go to bed your up early for school.._._..
O my god sparky just had a thought stop the lights
Why you think I’m still in school..
A thought u didn’t answer
Jane thats funny your cracking me up lol
Bobby you’re the one on here making personal attacks. .would you like to debate my original question..or just sprout.
Ff will just copy everything sf do while supporting fg madness
John C I think you’re right. FF don’t want to be in this government because the recovery is still ongoing. They want to wait for 5 more years while things are still a little tough and then swoop in when the hard work has been done by FG. That will probably keep them in government for 15-20 years after that
Bobby…do you care to answer my question..do you think Gerry knew about the abuse..
Exactly what they want. They’re hoping for a stronger mandate to misrule. The people have spoken and chosen. They should govern together or face the wrath of the electorate.
Sparky and Jane, I’m sorry but this thing about oh the smaller parties should have been showing to make a better effort to involve themselves in talks is rubbish, as any talks not involving FF and FG together were just purely for show and posturing and designed to kill time. The requirement for FF and FG to come to some kind of arrangement was patently clear to all even before all of the counts were finished. So you wanted the likes of SF to make some show of seeming to make an effort to form a government even though doing so would have been playing along with this whole false charade that has been acted out over the last 40 days. And now your trying to say that the electorate will punish them for not partaking in such a charade?, meanwhile the likes of FF and FG have now twice voted not to debate ongoing issues in our parliament!
At last some integrity, I wasn’t one for another election, let’s do this!! But remember this, the electorate votes for this country, not Europe!!
Look up Fine Gael with Enda Kenny in dictionary and also check integrity, you’ll find that there is …………….
Hate be making a case for Meehall but the slime bag that is Kenny sprung the idea on him without notice knowing that had Meehall had time to think about and discuss it his party beforehand they would have had an alternative solution. Kenny wants partnership because it would mean when Merkel tells him to do something there are not enough opposition TDs to vote it down. FFs idea of a minority government would at least in some cases avoid Kenny & Co. railroading their way to creating more chaos. Wicked little man, devious snake, untrustworthy rat that he is he wants to be the first FG Taoiseach to serve two terms in a row, nothing more.
Just curious, are you related to a famous actress?!!
Typical micheal Martin go in to a minority goverment so they can pull out and cause an election in hope to get in has the majority.
Obviously you haven’t been following the election or you’ve just arrived back in the country Rossa.
Mr. Martin and Fianna Fail have informed the electorate on countless occasions in no uncertain terms that ..and I repeat ..THAT:
‘Fianna Fail will not go into coalition with Fine Gael. We have campaigned to have Fine Gael removed from government for the good of the country. We will not be putting them back in or propping them up now’
It’s this type of clarity of purpose we need in Irish political life.
Michael should be commended for his principled stance.
@cal how is supporting a fine gael minority government honoring their promise of removing FG from government?
That’s the whole problem with party politics.civil war divide rubbish. They are going against the will of the electorate by refusing to form a government. Everyone elected is elected to govern if the numbers add up ffs.
In that scenario Fine Gael would be propping up Fianna Fail obviously.
I hear what you say but the electorate has said different and if they can’t go with what the people have voted for then my point is valid.
@Cal McLaughlin
I think your post sums up the arrogance of FF who though they got less seats that FG seems to think they have a mandate to shut FG out of government and to hell with what the electorate wanted and voted for. Michael Martin has just told the electorate to get lost and obviously he and FF only believe in a dictatorship not a democracy …this dribble of his about supporting a FG minority Government is just another ploy to hold the country to ransom and pull the plug on the government when it suits FF not necessarilly when it suits the country. FF are good at suiting themselves at the expense of the country for thats exactly what they did a few years back when they sold us out to the IMF and the Troika. I hope they dont get any votes in the next election to be given the power to hold the country and the electorate to ransom again.
Look bottom line was IW . Neither would have budged on their plans for it so what do people expect .
He is now saying he will support them if they form a minority government.
Thales. If they want the support of the people scrape IW. I will pay my share but only if there is a referendum to keep IW in Government ownership, i will not pay a private entity for something that will cost 1000€ maybe more in a few years. Thanks but no Thanks.
Of course they will support a minority. It achieves 3 aims.
1) not allow SF steal their share in opposition
2) take credit for anything good the gov do (sure we made them implement that)
3) pull plug when most advantageous to FF
@Thales of Miletus
People expect compromise…somebody during the week said : “pollitics is the art of compromise” and they were right but so far the only people seeking a workable compromise and doing serious talking are the Independents and FG . SF isnt talking and FF will only talk to people when it can dictate and promote its party and to heck with the country. FF owes this country a little bit more humility than it is showing. They are behaving disgracefully and like a child throwing a tantrum they should be totally ignored by the electorate in the next election. We can do without this kind of arrogance in the Dáil.
Fair play Micheal Martin, no U turns there, lest we forget the ‘lies’ Enda Kenny served us up last GE, hands up those with short memories on previous, did so many reverse gear changes he didnt know if he was in Ireland, Europe or South America #letgoEnda
@Sean O’Reilly So you trust Michael Martin do you…well have you forgotten that Michael Martin and FF have left a trail of broken promises everywhere they went over the years and I could have chosen a volume of examples for this reply to your comment but I like this one best …its from the Irish Times by Roddy O’Sullivan when the then Minister Michael Martin was Minister for education …
The article is entitled: “Martin Faces Student By-Election Protests” by Roddy O’Sullivan dated Tuesday September 29th 1998 and it goes on to say:
“…… When the Dáil resumes tomorrow TD’s will be met by a USI protest. The Minister for Education is to be presented with an enlarged version of a Leaving Certificate Report Card,in which he will be graded on his election promises and fail the exam…..”
Need I say more???
Thanks Mary for your archive search going back 18 years on Micheal Martin. I guess he didn’t have time to address that issue or is it still ongoing?!
To bring matters a bit closer in time to the bloggers on this article, Enda and his party were hardly in the door of the Oireachteas when they literally threw their pre election manifesto out the window, they practically passed themselves out with so many U turns, it’s looking like another election and it’s going to be very interesting to see the outcome this time. Kenny knows his party simply won’t get the seats they have now in another election, and he is really showing his ‘leadership’ qualities by hanging on for dear life to get s second term under his belt, really is great to see a Taoiseach putting the people of Ireland first, longest period of time in the history of the state without a government formed, he must be truly proud, Europe and especially Merkel must be having a right laugh at this fiasco.
I chose my archive story because I liked the way the students dealt with the matter but to bring Michael Martins Gigantic U turns a little closer to the moddern day and time how about the biggest U turn of all which became an election issue and that is that after FF signing water charges into law they then fought the election campaign on abolishing them while knowing full well that because they had not signed the exemption (for the EU which offered an exemption to the people of Ireland with regard to water charges)back when they were in Government they now have no legal leg to stand on in Europe to bring about the abolition of water charges in Ireland. If you want any more of FFs broken promises and UTurns I can give you a list of them as long as my arm and longer but I will offer one more from the party of fairness FF when it was in office it hit the pensioners and the disabled of this country with a drastic cut in weekly money that caused many to live in poverty while at the same time some of the members of FF on the front bench in government at the time resigned early so that they could increase the cash payment made to them.on leaving government. Then Michael Martin took over the leadership of FF and promised a new more transparent party and as soon as it came to election time his promises were forgotten and he saw fit to allow back on the FF ticket people who had pocketed well out of early resignation in government and stood them as candidates for election. This last broken promise of Michael Martins is what made me become active in speaking out here on the journal.ie before that I stayed pretty silent and now I regret that silence but I will be silent no more.
Call another election ffs. Let people choose wisely this time.
Its the politicians who do not want another election – the public just want all this arseholery to stop
@ Mary – choose wisely? Are you for real? It was the electorate that created this quagmire in the first place and we’ll do the same again in another election. By and large the Irish electorate hasn’t a clue.
Offtheball..noooooooooooooo we didn’t..successive government’s in power to deep in cronyism did.
Arseholery. Great word. I shall use it at the earliest opportunity.
FF. Incapable of putting the national interest first.
Willie O’Dea: “We will not share Mercs and perks with FG.”
Says it all.
Always thought Willie was more of a Boats & Hoes man to be honest!
FF have no interest in government. FG still the largest party. How people forget how FF screwed this country I will never understand
Will you stop with that gumpf about people forgetting FF ‘screwed the country’ It happened – but there are only 2 parties to choose from, People dont like Enda, FG and their austerity fixation so who else are they going to vote for?
Its a case of who you dislike least, and has been for a long long time
The reason FG have an ‘Austerity fixation’ is cause FF spent like crazy. I am sure FG / Labour etc would like to spend like crazy too
No, Wiseman, that is wrong. Fine Gael are conservatives who want to cut government spending and lower taxes for the rich – they try and pretend they are not doing that, but believe you me thats what they have been doing – and the mess the country was in only gave them the excuse to make huge cuts to health, gardai, etc etc.
The only time they want to spend is when they are trying to buy votes – and even then its giving most to the richer people.
Darren, what are the AAA and SF doing to form a government?
Remember FG, SF and Lab would be a majority of 1, with the AAA/PBP and add in Wallace it would be the same.
SF and the extreme left could get policy implemented and collapse the Gov when ever they wanted.
They are out there dealing with real issues affecting real people while FG and FF posture like peacocks
Real issues like getting Ruth Coppinger elected Taoiseach?
Darren does that include Paul Murphy. .who has come out strong in his support for luas strike..healy rea Bro..who gave their daughte the council seat he vacated.while there is a lot to be said for an independent vote,beware for what you wish for.
Noonan is a puppet for Europe, austerity fixation is all coming from there. Please God we’ll have a Government soon that takes care of the people of Ireland, unlike FG/Lab that practically handed the running of the country over to Brussels.
Get your facts right it was FF who closed the Garda college in Templemore it was opened again by a FG Lab government
People voted to get Enda out of Government Buildings….. not FF’s duty to keep him there.
Seeing as how FG is still the largest party, that doesn’t stand up. If anything the electorate voted down the previous government, mainly labour. But nobody really knows why people voted individually.
Fianna Fail are out to pull the wool over our eyes, thinking that this time we will have forgotten the mess in government they created.
@peter buchanan but FF said they are open to supporting a FG minority Government so looks like they feel it is their duty to keep FG in there
Ppl also voted to keep him in so both views have to be respected which is why the votes tallied like t h ey dud
I think the distinction is that they feel they are duty bound, to the electorate, to form and/or support some kind of government even if it is a FG minority government, which would probably have a short life span anyway BUT they also have a duty to their own party members who would rather see them go into coalition with Beelzebub than govern with FG, especially if they were the minority partner. Something like that anyway. It’s the old Collins/Dev thing from around 100 years ago.
Sean, FF dont want to be partners in government because there is a big chance both parties would get decimated next election and SF would be in power. If they support a minority government they can pull out when the time is right and have a shot at winning power again
Yes Dave, because perish the thought that a stable government of the two, resulting in fairer more balanced policies, and hopefully a better Economic and social climate in 5 years time would be rewarded by the electorate. They should do their job govern with the numbers as they are, forget Sinn Fein and have the courage to be judged on their record.
While there might be some truth in that Dave, gone are the days of overall majorities for FF. They will have to rely heavily on support from other quarters no matter what. They just will not support FG under any circumstances. They would sooner partner with Satan regardless of decimation risk. As for SF, who in their right mind would have them in government? No matter how much of a mess the next government makes, I simply cannot see any mainstream party buddying with them. It simply won’t happen.
Everybody has their own interpretation of the outcome of the election. Not enough people trusted FG to run the country, likewise with FF. But who offered a real alternative? Now, so many weeks on from the election, we have so many trembling maidens on all sides of the ballroom, people are beginning to ask ‘well, why did you come here if you didn’t want to dance?’ Let’s get on with it, have another election. At least we might have a clearer view of what (and who) we are voting for.
Mary, there can be no “interpretation” of the result, the fact was at the end of the count it was patently clear that only an arrangement involving both FG and FF, minority or otherwise, had the numbers to form a mathematically plausible government
Sean @114, make no mistake SF are absolutely key to the current tight place FF and FG both find themselves in. As they have both repeatedly said SF are not fit for government, ignoring the fact that these parties both signed the likes of sunningdale and the good Friday agreements which not only said SF were fit for government but actually forced their supposed enemies into government with them, as they have said they’re unfit and won’t countenance talks with them then the 20 odd seats that would have usually gone to the likes of Labour and the pd’s are thankfully out of their grubby hands reach now
I think an Taoiseach Enda Kenny read the mood of the people correctly in what type of government they voted for when he instigated talks on a partnership government comprising FG,FF and Independents…it could have proved to be a great government with a whole new approach to doing business both in government and in the Dail but Michael Martin wouldnt even consider thinking about it. He talks about reform but when he gets the chance to be part of a real reform in Irish politics he runs a mile.
Kenny… like a drunk in a nightclub at 2am trying to score.
No point in ringing Joan at 3 am now either.
@Cal….hilarious!
Almost feel sorry for Enda at this stage, you can see him trying to cling onto the bit of power he has but it’s not working out to plan for him. Actually, scratch that. I’m not a bit sorry.
Poor old Enda actually believed that the people loved him…
So they won’t go into govt with FG but they will support a FG minority govt. They are beyond the joke.
If i ran a comapany the way they are carrying on i would out of business a long time ago
Game of drones
Not a fan of either leaders but Kenny failed FG in election he should fall on his sword and go !
So should every other leader so; his party got more votes than any other
Some commentators seem mystified as to why FF will not go into government with FG but yet will support a minority FG government. Simple, they want to wait for the opportune time to pull the plug so they will face the electorate on a high….likely over water charges, housing, health. It’s politics. and FF are in their ballsy, gung ho mode once again after getting more seats…we’re back…get the tent opened again. The cute hoors are on a roll and open for business once again. arise and follow Martin.
@Winston
FF said they wouldn’t go into government with FG. Despite the call from SF, who didn’t even entertain any discussions…
FF and FG was never happening…
SF came third, they should be the ones we should be looking to go in as junior partner… But they didn’t even look at that and expected the first and the second party to do a deal… That was stupid…
Good government needs good opposition. SF are terrible opposition.
Try integrity and sticking to party manifesto, as Guinness book of records go, Fine Gael must be v close to the most ‘U turns’ in shortest term not only on this Island, but farther afield?
Please advise…….
Cut their pay to 1/3 until a government is formed, that will focus a few minds
It’s looking more and more like another election. They’re going through the motions to make themselves look good trying hard not to be out manoeuvred by each other. Looks like FG won this round. Offering a deal but FF rejected it.
Am I the only one who want FF to disappear of the face of the earth for what they did in Gov. Wake up ladies and gent for the FF Teflon election. It’s not like they were in Government for the past 20 years. People are homeless because they managed bankrupt Ireland through their own arrogance. The reason we need Irish water is because FF failed to put any investment in to the Irelands water system…why because you can’t buy votes from the public by showing them the nice new pipes which are buried. Dublin is in a perilously situation when it comes to water never mind Cork. We have to pay for it causes there’s NO Money. We’re going to be paying for the bust in every pay check till 2050.
We’ve always been paying for water – its the way its paid for that is the problem
Any ideas I’d love to hear them. Fact is the countrys water infrastructure is on its knees from years of under spend. Now it’s critical and we have no money cause of the level of debt were servicing due to the bust. Ok let’s not pay for water and see what happen in Dublin in the next drought.
We have been spending 1.4 billion a year for some time. Incompetently… and more incompetently sinceW appeared Less money spent on actual infrastructure.. more spent on mrters and consultants..
Capital investment in water has been stripped back for years, I know this as I’ve worked in the area. Along comes Irish water and spends literally millions and millions on consultants and PR firms, it’s ridiculous
We should have another election and sort this mess once and for all only problem is who to vote for next time I’m really at a loss to decide none of the parties have impressed me.
For what it’s worth in my opinion I found the social democrats and particularly Stephen Donnelly impressive in the election campaign, I also found SF impressive in the actual Dail during the last term particularly pearse Doherty
Vite Fine Gael and Labour and Independents forget about the rest they are not interested in governing the country.
If Martins rejection today of last nights offer was ‘serious haste’, what the bloody hell was making the offer an hour into negotiations in the first place??
Back to the ballot box so…
I read that quickly and saw back to the bollocks so !
hard to believe this country would give a key minister who was in the cabinet when the imf took over this country could be to taoiseach 8 years later. pathetic on a number of levels
Listening to them all this evening , it appears to be our fault , the electorate got it wrong !
electorate will pay. as I have for ff corruption for last 8 years and the embarrassment of haughey before that. let’s celebrate 1916. joke
Yes and to think that Kenny could come out of all of this mess as Taoiseach also. A man who must have set a record for pre-election broken promises, presided over the IW debacle, sanctioned the offloading of loans by NAMA and failed banks to venture capitalists, oversaw the worst hospital A&E crisis in the history of the state, the GSOC scandal, homeless crisis, strike threats by Gardai, teachers and nurses. And yet he could be Taoiseach.
Both FF and FG will be beaten badly in new election.
Controlling both government and opposition benches is all that was wanted all along. Deceiving the people with the charade is obvious. The have always controlled both and will not leave a resurgent SF as the main opposition. Minority government was always to be. Surely people can see this..
Momentum is with ff from being on 15ish % to where they are now. They want another election. They are moving the right way. FG are going the other way. That’s why we have no government.
There are a number of people I have met who voted for Michael Martin and FF in the last election who would not do so again (especislly in the light of recent events where they felt the proposal from FG should at least have been discussed in detail before a decision was made on it bu the party) and now these floating voters regret how they voted, so maybe the percentages might not add up in FF’s favour again if there was to be an election in the near future. That will be an interesting thing to watch in a future election.
Back to the polls we go, and surely SURELY the people who voted these self serving hypocrites back in will see that all they want is power. We are a laughing stock of a country thanks to these clowns and the clowns voting them back in. How can there still be no government????? They are getting paid for doin sweet FA while the ordinary decent working class are breaking their necks paying criminal taxes just so these muppets can live the high life. A complete and utter shambles!!!!!
You should consider running as a candidate. I think if you could convince the people the way you convince the journal comment readers then you would get elected. Have a think about it.
Only one winner here. Sinn Fein.
Doubt that.
They’ve sat in the bums for the past 4 weeks doing nothing.
Any info or party that at least tried to form a gov will do best.
Those that sat in the sidelines will do least.
They weren’t invited Danny. Whatever about water charges being a redline issue, negotiating with SF was easily 40% (made that stat up) drop in support for either party. Both built on legend and myth at this stage.
Arguably, they were let out for a good reason. I would argue the reason is historical. Just as this sham is historical.
I don’t support any main party but to think SF are not gleeful about this is ignorance. Not calling you ignorant but think about how they feel about this sh**show? Bleedin delighted I’d say. It feeds in to the rhetoric they have been slinging for a long time.
Charlie, Martin McGuinness stated 6 hours into the count that they wouldn’t be available for talks as they were going into opposition.
They spent 4 weeks saying they wouldn’t talk.
Why would they be invited?
If they said they were available for talks and held them, even if it lead nowhere, they could take a moral high ground.
As it stands, they sat back saying no, no, no..!
They will live to regret not trying to have some form of talks.
The people will see them for exactly what they are, only thinking of the party.
Danny, FG and FF, since their foundation, have been allergic to dealing with each other in terms of governing together. Look where we are now. Long before the count began they both stated, in no uncertain terms, SF would not be considered.
Has an olive branch been extended to SF? Do you think SF should push themselves in to the fold? Just gives FG/FF ammo. Pardon the pun.
I am not defending SF just stating that they are gaining from this. How do you think SF can push themselves into a majority government? It is simply not possible. FG and FF however is there to be done…..
“They will live to regret not trying to have some form of talks.”
I think the parties involved in these supposed “talks” will suffer the most if this does not come to fruition.
Again, I am not defending just observing. FF and FG have just weakened each others reputation with this back and forth which fundamentally comes down to the color of promotional lit and a long past history. They are showing each other up at this point and the fact SF have to do nothing to look good makes FG/FF look awful.
Only one loser. irish people. We are badly led
Danny, “not trying to have some form of talks”, but Danny as soon as the election counts were even half done it was clear to everyone that FG and FF would have to come to some sort of arrangement for there to be any mathematically plausible government. All the so called talks since have been just a charade of shadow boxing designed to kill time and distract the media. So you wanted the likes of SF to partake in that charade just to be seen to be??
This is just a charade to cover the fact they don’t want a Sinn Fein opposition
It’s the water charges! Fine Gael just don’t know when they’re beaten! I thought Fianna fail were bad! Power is an ugly thing!
The arrogance of Martin..5 yrs ago he would have bitten Kennys hand off for this arrangement .. I hope they get thrashed in the inevitable election
Kenny will sell his soul for the historical honour of been the 1st.Fine Gael Taoiseach re elected Taoiseach
No one’s buying it
Enda’s souls been well and truly sold years ago
Will there be a Total Recall? (Another Philip K Dick novel) :|
Do you really think Kenny (actuallty its probably Kenny’s handlers doing the thinking there) thought FF would take up the offer? FG knew they wouldnt and are just playing political games
They are both as bad as eachother
They made the offer. FF rejected it
Enda Kenny is so sure of himself he thinks he can make the Sun shine, he is not a person i want as Leader of my Country, or any of his Party.
Well tuff Luck to the few who do not want Enda Kenny as leader because he is the democratically elected leader of the largest party democratically elected by the people of this State. If you choose to live in a democracy then you must accept who the people democratically elect. Enda Kenny is a deep thinker and a courageous politician who together with his party and the Labour party pulled this country back from the bankrupt cliff edge that FF left us hanging on a few short years ago and that takes a type of politician that is both a visionary and a thinker. History will one day look back on Enda Kenny and see him as a great Statesman who did not put himself or his party before the needs of the Irish people and was not found wanting when it came to making the hard decisions necessary to provide a sound foundation from which this State could begin to grow again. Sure there are issues like Homelessness, Over crowded hospitals and Irish Water to mention but a few of the more commonly raised issues, but it shows a lack of thinking and intelligence on anyones part who thinks this country of ours could be pulled back from the brink of Bankruptsey without there being these type of legacy issues serious as they are left behind. These issues especially homelessness and over crowded hospitals are further complicated by the fact that they had started to grow during the Celtic Tiger Boom times under a Ff led government so it was inevitable when the funds ran out that these sectors would take a hit. It can be argued that this should not havebeen allowed to happen but it has happened and now we must deal with it but it will take time and it is a painful journey for those who are affected by the necessary cuts which would not have been necesary had we as a country had a sensible government who saved for a rainy day when times were good. As to Irish Water which seems to be a major bone of contention the fact is that FF signed us up to water charges and left FG and Lab to implement the charges that the FF government signed into law before it left office. IW was formed to help bring about a better water service in this country…sure mistakes were made along the way there are very few if indeed any government politicans on any side in any party who dont make mistakes and there are aspects of Irish Water that can be looked at and changed but it shows a lack of thought and planning on anyones part to say that Irish Water has to be abolished at what would prove to be a Ginormous cost to the people of Ireland, and also the idea of placing the responsibility for our water back in the hands of over worked Co Councils is just a non runner and a load of political waffle, so much so that the politicans who promote this theory are now running away from government as fast as their legs can carry them lest they have to concede on this issue and admit they were wrong. Its easier to float a hot air balloon thats popular rather than deal in cold hard facts. Its time FF stepped up to the plate and stopped messing around trying to score points or behave like spoilt children who unless they get the biggest piece of the cake refuse to eat it. FF are behaving like contrary todlers who unless they are the first to come up with a plan wont even afford the time to consider it before kicking up a tantrum and refusing to have anything to do with it while at the same time shifting the blame for walking away by saying its not our fault FG took us by surprise…Maybe next time FG shoukd lead FF to the ralks letting FF think it was all their idea like what happened in tge case of the commission for Dáil reform….I’m glad FF arent dealing with any serious surprises while running our country but then I remember thats exactly what happened when the Troika came in. They didnt know about it back then either and they were surprised by the events of the time. Perhaps the non thinkers are all FF, for they never seem to read the signs of the times or know when something is going to happen, and if thats the case, then maybe they shouldnt ever be in government, and we really do need a new election, but if its the case that they are using this innocence as a face mask for ultierior motives and a political score pointing scenario then its time to drop the masks guys and do what you have been elected to do and are paid to do which is ; to form a government. If Michael Martin or other senior figures are the problem that prevents FF from progressing onto a modern political stage in Ireland then perhaps it is time for Michael Martin and his cohorts to resign and go and allow the people within FF who have vision to work in a progressive and meaningful way towards a new age in Irish politics and a new Ireland the freedom to do just that.
People do not want Kenny back he lost 56 deputies in the election
FG source: butting the old Smurfs twist it Hugh, the FF camp is quoting a source that martin came away with fleas after the meeting. then again when you lie down with dirty corrupt cronyism loving half wits it better to get a few shots before hand. not winners just taxpayer paying for a unworkable circus.
Surely SF will be biggest losers next time. Why would people vote for a party that only want to be in opposition.
It’s impossible to know with SF, their vote management during the last election was childish. They would need an overall majority and Gerry’s past will be used for negative campaigning by every party. SF budget and policy’s are as believable as any other party taking into account that all figures are based on growth of over 3%. The fact is no current party has the trust of an overall majority of the electorate. small parties like the social democrats need to run treble the candidates to compete with the big two. But its the big party’s who get the lions share of public funding and big business need to control both the government and the opposition, that has to change. FF & FG have proven the can’t change, party politics will always come first. SF has a strong vote base that stayed true even after all the media bias shown by RTE and “independent” news outlets.
Maybe we don’t need career politicians running this country at all?
Could we tempt a mix of business leaders, NGO chiefs, and other successful individuals away from their current roles to “fix-a-country” and sort out our long-standing lack of vision and strategy in delivery of administration and public services over the next 5 years.
After the 5 years we go back to elections and start a new political breed.
Independents will probably be hurt most when this goes to another election with volunteers having already taken time off from the workplace for the first election, and having tight budgets spent on posters and other advertising. There will be some different splits in the preferences this time around.
This so just feels like Lisbon 2 – we didn’t like the first round so let’s go again.
then again the independents could gain a lot too because people are even more sick of FG/FF now
Martin talked a great game in the run up…..This is stance is utter nonsense. Kenny, after his speech on how the election could be “liberating” and could usher in a new era, is coming out the better on this. Unbelievable.
How could either of these men be confident with a new election? Shouted at the tv numerous times in the last few months and now just want to throw it out the window.
Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry
Meanwhile we the tax payer pays for the politicians being on a holiday
If there is going to be another election I’d vote the same. The Social Democrats, they could even put a few more candidates in the running. I’d say they were sorry they didn’t in the first place. A lot of people said they would’ve voted for them if they had a candidate in their constituency.
Apart from the existing 3 leaders who had a base to begin with, none of their other candidates got a look in.
What makes you think they would get more if they run more candidates?
JC can we get rid of this f*g muppet acting Taoiseach! I doubt he would be in the majority had all boxes been accounted for all of the time. Whilst I don’t like FF either and I know there’s an ulterior motive if he’s sticking to his election promises I say give him benefit of the doubt.. Kenny take a hike.
Without that acting Taoiseach and his achievements to date and indee the Táiniste Joan Burton, all be it thst they have not lived up to your expectations Lydia of all that should be done people like myself on disability (I am in a wheel chair for the past few years) and OAP’s in Ireland would be eating out of bins like they had to do in Greece and other countries where the Troika and the IMF stepped in. FF had agreed a plan with the Troika to reduce the core rates of disability payments and OAP payments by a whole lot more than the FG Lab governmenrt did. We had good politicans who fought our corner for us and fought it hard when the Troika demanded cuts everywhere based on the agreement that FF made when it sold the poorest and most vulnerable in the country out and sent us down the swaney without paddle. I am very grateful to An Taoiseach Enda Kenny and the Tainiste Joan Burton and the FG Lab government for all it did to enable the foundations of a recovery to begin in our country while protecting the most vulnerable among us from starvation.
I have little doubt that you must be a FG supporter and have had your corner looked after but whilst you may have been looked after in some respects now more than ever there are homeless everywhere you look. they have failed many and looked after themselves in the process and worse is yet to come. Be as grateful as you want as it will be short lived. They are still selling the poorest down the swanney without a paddle and will continue to do so. He is a narrow minded, self-righteous, power seeking muppet and nothing you say will change mine, and many others, point of view!!
I have not always been a FG supporter Lydia but I am now and the reason I am is because the last government led by An Taoiseach Enda Kenny tried its utmost to protect the most vulnerable in society. It failed to protect everyone from the pain of the crash and we all felt it and still feel it to some degree some a little more than others but core social welfare payments were kept intact at a time when few believed it to be possible to do so. The homelessness problem did indeed increase during this time but the construction industry and the banks had collapsed under the previous FF government and no one could have stopped the flow of people becoming homeless in the wake of these events which were to a great extent aided by the policies of the FF government. When FG Lab came into Government it certainly was not possible to do a great deal to stop this flow of homelessness while running the country on a shoe string budget while atvtge same time having all budgets having to be pre approved by the Troika which would not have permitted us to borrow more. We are just rising to our feet now again as a country and we need to learn to crawl before we can walk and walk before we can run but thanks to the efforts of an Taoiseach Enda Kenny and an Táiniste Joan Burton there are now less homeless in the country than might have been the case had they not been in government and they managed on a very meagre budget to build some houses…not enough I grant you to deal with the problem that is there but its a start and this start was made at a time when money was very limited. Whats your solution Lydia to the homelessness problem in Ireland? Do you think as a country we should have borrowed more at an excerdingly high interest rate to build houses for our homeless at a time when we were bankrupt and perhaps run the risk of sinking deeper into debt and perhaps live to see the banks swallow up ownership of these newly built houses too, and eventually sell on the loans and leave us in the same boat again. Painful as it is and I have worked with homeless people in the past (many years ago)so I know and understand their plight and pain, the plain cold fact is that without the FF government having prepared the country financially for the crash of the construction Indusry or creating a rainy day fund for the protection of these people a rapid increase in homelessness like a rolling stone gathering speed could not be stopped. But if you can point out to me what could have been done differently Lydia I am prepared to listen . Politics is about listening and being willing to compromisie and then having the courage to try again to do something better for the people of the country building for a better future and a fairer future for all . I see these qualities and aspirations in Enda Kenny and the FG Party which is why I proudly support them.
Well are the water charges going or not
Pair of tits
FF could form a govt with SF or FG or FG with SF or FF, but it would not be in their party interests so they would rather have a minority govt that will collapse after a short time or another election to boost their party interests. The party is all that matters.
SF have refused to make themselves available for any talks with any party.
They have ruled it out for the past 4 weeks.
Exactly they are the same as FF and FG all putting their party first and not interested in forming a govt as it might reduce their party support. Nobody should vote for FF/FG/SF etc.
FG and Independents are among the few who are making a genuine effort to come together to try to form a real workable government, as to the rest who are either throwing tantrums because they were approached with an offer that surprised them (or at least they pretended to be surprised by it though most of the country saw it coming long before the offer came)or are among parties and groups that refuse to engage in any talks, I think for them a committee should be set up to investigate exactly how much if any of their salaries they have earned since the last General Election, and anything over and above the amount the committee see as a fit recompense for the work done should be confiscated by the Revenue and paid back to the coffers of the State to be used to help in the addressing of homelessness and the over strained health service in the country.
Fianna Fáil- ” A cross between the Mafia and the Moonies”
Eamonn Dunphy explains the Soldiers of Destiny to a foreign journalist.
Let the small parties be top party will do a better job for Ireland. Let Kenny and Martin go visit the World, and our Country will be better off.
I’d imagine Enda wanted to be on top….
Putting the people first my arse
FG need to get realistic. FF will support a minority government for just so long as a) they don’t have to take an unpopular decision; b) the opinion polls show them to be gaining ground and c) they have enough funds in the coffers to face another election. It is a cynical exercise just to gain time to rehabilitate themselves in the eyes of the public. The election has made them cocky: they, in their own perverted way of thinking, see themselves to be on the way back. Let’s just get on with another election. This time we might have a clearer understanding of what we are voting for. Do we want a government, or just want to spend taxpayers’ money on those who simply want to be paid for shouting ‘naaaayyy’ to everything?
“FF/FG Government would not serve public interest”
Micheal Martin.
So since when has that become a problem for the pair of ya?
Blatant opportunism from Martin. Ireland would haver been well served (relatively speaking) if two parties with the same ideologies formed a stable government. They only exist as separate entities because of a split 96 years ago, which one side back-tracked on anyway. It’s ludicrous.
If we go back to the polls fg will be wiped out by the way why do they keep calling enda a taoiseach we don’t have a taoiseach we have a caretaker
FG say they won’t form a partnership with FF because it’s not what the people want…..erm pretty sure those two party’s hot the highest votes so surely a partnership is what the ppl want. Took them 40 days to talk….acting like a pair of teenagers getting their friends to ask ppl to shift them….pathetic
You have it the wrong way round Fiona its FF who wont go into partnership talks with FG and the Independents …Michael Martin ruled it out without even discussing the possibility he’s still flirting with the idea of an unworkable FF minority government and unless he is in secret talks with Gerry Adams and Sin Fein a minority FF government just doesnt hold water as the numbers arent there to facilitate it.
Fianna Fail campaigned on making Ireland a fair society. Where is the fairness in proposing to remove water charges from urban dwellers and while retaining them for rural dwellers?
What you talking about? I’ve lived in the country and never had to pay for water. You’ve obviously got land which is completely different as commercial water charges are levied only on those with the potential to generate revenue from their property.
Lots of people pay twice for water – through group water schemes and via VAT and road tax.
Oh I agree cottage, but I was just pointing out the fallacy in his argument about rural dwellers paying for something urban dwellers don’t
FF signed the water charges into law to begin with and now tgey are washing their hands of them. Its all a hot air balloon but the people of Ireland are tired being conned and are not impressed
Looking at that photo, it suggests that Micheal had the coat on already!
Thank God for this.
Beyond a joke at this stage…another election and get on with it!!!!
Can the president force them into government ? Fine Gael / Sinn Fein / Independents or Fianna Fail / Sinn Fein / Independents
The president can refuse to dissolve the Dail. It’s been done before.
Jimmy Joe I know the president can dissolve the dail, I just wondered if under the circumstances he could also do the opposite ?
I have just realised the word ” refuse ” apologies,
The primary responsibility of every elected TD is to the people of the Republic, not to party or alliance, not even to constituents alone. They are, first and foremost, members of Dáil Éireann. Micheál Martin and many of his party loyalists are putting Fianna Fáil’s interests before the Republic’s interest and are refusing to do their duty. Sinn Féin TDs are also declining to do their duty, in their party’s interest. It is ironic that, in the year in which we celebrate the heroism of those who sacrificed their lives for our freedom, these self-proclaimed ‘Super-Republicans’ put party interest before the interests of the Republic. Treachery and dereliction of duty may be dressed up as ‘principle’ but it is only people who lack any principle whatsoever who will deceive themselves into believing that it is in fact principle at all. Ye are honour-bound to serve but ye don’t know the meaning of the term. What ye are doing is the epitome of corruption and it comes naturally to ye. If we are forced to vote again, we should boycott all members of any party that has refused to participate in Government. Ye applied for the jobs, ye got them, now get up off your arses and do them, or pay the consequences at the polls. There should be no hiding places for traitors.
I have it. Let FF shell the Four Courts ( empty of course ) and they could tell the party faithful the civil war is now deemed a draw …. claim a construction jobs boost for Dublin ….. sorted
Sinn Fein labour Boyd Barrett Paul Murphy Clare Daly Mike Wallace Ruth copping wont go in to government with anyone so why vote for them ???
The bottom line is neither of theses party’s or their leaders are electable
Brief Encounters of the Turd Kind lol.
The only time briefs should meet is in the washing machine lol.
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Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
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